Could This Subway Car Save NYC Transit? - Cheddar Explains
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- čas přidán 6. 05. 2019
- Are the cars the MTA uses currently the best for the way we ride the subway? In 2013, researchers from Operations Planning Group at NYCT submitted their improved design to the Transportation Research Board. Cheddar explains...
Special thanks to the New York Transit Museum for letting us film on their premises and the Director of the museum, Concetta Bencivenga, for providing us with extensive historical knowledge. All footage of the historical subway cars were taken at the New York Transit Museum.
To learn more about the MTA, click here: www.nytransitmuseum.org/
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On Cheddar.com: chdr.tv/cheddar - Věda a technologie
MTA: Might Take Awhile
Maybe, maybe not
MTA: My goverment Take All the cash and left your fool with shit...
"It ain't a delay if it's every day" -MTA
I simply call it the reverse ATM.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Airline style seating on subway and inner city trains is the worst idea ever. We have them on some trains in London and they are horrible. They aren't designed for getting on and off quickly, they are suitable for long distance travel only, not short hops. You have to squeeze past someone, because of this the window seat is often empty when it could be full. They eat up more standing space. Because there is less room to get along the isle, it only takes one person standing to stop those seats being filled and instantly lower the capacity of the train or to make someone miss their stop. It's just poorly thought out design. Airline style seating should be for situations where a train makes a stop every 10+ or 20+ minutes, not every few minutes like most inner city trains do.
Our new trains in Brisbane Australia maximise seating and have higher chair backs for comfort, large bathrooms, gangway doors. They are really nice. In Australia it is common curtesy to always sit in the window seat and leave the aile seat for other people. Then, people just stand up when the window person wants to leave.
@@cocoacoolness Inner city trains in *London*
London has a population double the size of Sydney. If you combine Sydney and Melbourne you'd get London's population. Greater London covers an area one fourteenth of those two cities combined. Brisbane has a population of 2.1 million. More than four times less than London and covers an area almost fifteen times larger. So no, not really comparable.
In Brisbane it might make sense to have that style of train because the distances between stops will be longer (meaning an incentive for passengers to sit down) and carriages won't be as packed (meaning it's easier to get on and off). But if Brisbane population density doubles then they'd probably have to change the style of train.
New York metropolitan area and Greater London are at least similarly comparable some aspects, however New York City appears to have a much higher density - probably because it's a much taller city (London is yet to get as many tower block living accommodations as New York has).
That's kinda what I thought when I saw the "perfect" design revealed. I'm glad they decided to go with the design that they did.
It works in D.C. They're subway cars are pretty great. Not the same style as they recommended in the video but the ones there work pretty well.
@@cocoacoolness The difference here is that Brisbane's train network is a commuter rail system, instead of a rapid transit system, which is what New York's subway is (and a bunch of others like London's underground). This means that trains in Brisbane are built for longer distances to work with the layout of Brisbane and quite frankly most Australian cities, which is more suburban and less dense than cities such as New York (Sydney is maybe an exception). That's why comfortable, transverse seating works better in Australian trains, because there isn't a need for more standing room which is only needed for fast and short distance train commutes
When they talked about the seating habits of riders, I've never felt more called out in my life.
New york: Our subway system is very overcrowded.
Japan: *_-hold my s a k e-_*
Does New York have a growing problem too?
And the Japanese also have chikan (when people touch girls on the train)
@@yabazyabacoffee lol i seen it on pornhub
There is literally Porn on trains and buses there
At least Japan has trains that are nearly perfectly on time. Classic Americans trying to change the topic off them...🙃
That design really looks like people sitting in the seats at either end of the car might get trapped in there if lots of people are standing in the narrow gap between the sides
Mischa Price yeah I just realized that. On a sardine can train you could miss your stop because people can’t move out of your way fast enough.
Yes, that is exactly why happens, and people also don’t want to stand between the seats because they don’t want to get stuck either, it’s a horrible train design for somewhere that will have full trains. It’s also very slow to load and unload.
I don't think anyone is really going to stand between the seats if they are that narrow. I think the idea is everyone likes to stand by the door, so put no seats between the doors Ave everyone will just stand there. This is moving the seats out of the way from where people want to stand, without removing seats.
it looks pretty much just like our design in Seattle for the light rail. Especially during baseball games and in the downtown area it gets massively crowded, I've never had trouble leaving or getting stuck. even when it's packed to the brim.
I think the point that the research was conducted outside of peak hours is important. Trains that are designed around moderate use might not cope well in rush hour.
That aircraft style one looks awful, think how hard it is to get out of a crowded train as it is, imagine sitting in the corner of one of those
I live in Vienna, we have the end-to-end style trains, but the older 6-wagon style ones too. They don't have automatically closing and opening doors, you have to manually open the doors via a lever on the older ones, or push a button to open on the new models. The seating though remained the same. basically airline style, BUT every seat pair faces another pair, giving enough legroom to get out from the window seat. Each door location has a pole that branches into three. Also, every seat has a pole attached, while there are plenty of those plastic/hardrubber handhooks overhead where you can also hold on. And on the newer models, you can go from one end to the other, while the old trains you were stuck in the wagon you got in, because no doors to go between cars. You had to get out and run to the next car, because dwell times were always low, except at mad rush hour, but those are rare, thankfully.
Anyway, looks like them New Yorkers still can't figure out the best solution. Budapest has the same longitudinal style seating in the new trains, but one metro line is also fully automatic/driverless.
And noone is going to want to sit on the inside.
The closed-ended they described (that wasn't picked) would be harder and slower to get in and out of the train, harder to clean, more likely to be dirty (the shit you find on even open design subway cars in NYC is shocking, like a fucking shark in the early-/mid-2000s), and less likely to be used, whereas with an open layout, EVERY seat in rush hour is going to be taken up, but won't impede passengers getting on and off the train. They need to consider average ride-time (number of stops) per passenger: many passengers will have a relatively short ride time, so they don't care about comfort, they care about ease of access.
When that "perfect" car design popped up I actually grimaced. That airline seating is abysmal.
Bring on the gangways.
@Lulu Jones easy. they will sit on the floor
@Craig F. Thompson That's a crazy idea. I'm amazed that even two people have liked it in the six months since you commented. The elderly and infirm should always have somewhere to sit on public transport and there should be sufficient seating for most people to get a seat off-peak. I haven't seen the Madrid subway cars you speak of, but I'm surprised they exist.
Craig F. Thompson That it was someone else’s idea doesn’t make you any less crazy for proposing it. That’s it’s a very old reference doesn’t surprise me, not even the MTA would endorse such an absurd idea these days.
@Craig F. Thompson Nah just ban fat people
Not gettin' open gangways for another 1 or 2 years now...
I like staying in the corner by the door, you cannot take that away from me.
Word
I’ve got a rope and a box; you can either move out the way or I can move you, your choice
@@TS_Mind_Swept what are you gonna do with a box
SaltySoySauce - I honestly don’t entirely remember what I was thinking, but it was probably something like put them inside it 😂😂
😭🤣
Cheddar: *This is Subway*
Wendover: *Nahh, that's underground planes*
Wendover can do a video about... I don't know... maybe... salt mining in pre-Christian Europe and find a way to tie in aviation :)
Great channel.
anything else: planes that in no way resemble a plane
Hahahahahahaha
The for fucking bus not a train.... you lose too much space for people to stand...
@@campkira , such a system works well enough for the Twin Cities area in Minnesota, so well, in fact, that they have won numerous awards for their designs. Now another thing that might alleviate overcrowding in the NYC subway system is the most obvious thing, which is to look at the most crowded streets and make either new subway trains abd subway tunnels under said streets or use trolley, light rail, or commuter/passenger rail systems on said streets, as well as make them have that allegedly perfect rail design, simply make the trains of any type longer, and, if needed, add more engines to said trains. Yes, it might cost a lot of money, but there needs to be a massive restructuring, as well as improvement, to the antiquated NYC subway train tracking system first, with new patches continually updating the system once new trains and lines are added to the NYC subway system, so a lot of money is already going to be spent on these upgrades anyway, thus expansions to the current system will naturally happen anyway.
Comfortability? What happened to Comfort?!?
yeah, she said it once and I was like... what did she just say? Then she said it again. Comfortable's noun is comfort, not comfortability. There's also comfortableness. Odd but more real than comfortability.
I rewinded the video about 7 times to make sure I heard it right.
Glad I'm not the only one!
Lmao I know eh
Agree, it's not a real word, the proper word is comfort. It was annoying.
I don’t prefer to hold on to vertical poles, I legit can’t reach the horizontal ones above the seats!!
Pole dancers love this answer 🤭
Can I get an amen for J Dizzle?
Seriously, most of those horizontal poles are the worst because you also need the extra height to bend over someone sitting there as you take that second to apologetically or awkwardly look at them before trying your best to look away. But, that doesn't mean I wanna stand with the vertical pole with the circle of crowding. This is also awkward and there's always that one asshole that tries to grab the pole when there's no more room left and just as the train starts moving, their hand slides down and hits yours. It doesn't hurt. It's just the biggest cringe.
Take away the poles and all the sudden it’s no longer ‘SHOWTIME!’ ... oh no... think of the children...
My arms hurt if I hold on too long. Hate those high ones. Rather hold the vertical.
that pole is clearly designed for people that are at least five foot nine
That design is stupid. People like sitting alone - they don't "not like the middle seat".
It's like urinals. You need one between each person. Having two means only one can be used comfortably. Whereas with three, two can be used comfortably, with the middle seat/urinal between them.
We have that layout in Perth Australia and there'll be half the seats not used, and it is impossible to get to them because people prefer standing in the skinny aisle between seats over sitting down next to someone.
In New York riders use every seat.
Tim Green and the squeamishness about urinal spacing is new. The new generation. Previously all were used. - with no dividers!!!
New Yorkers will share a seat with you if it means they get to sit down which never fucking happens on the MTA
@@Paulinrnke Squeamishness about urinal spacing has been around at least 40 years. Every single time I saw a bathroom with no dividers, I'd be upset. Thankfully, they are rare now everywhere I've seen.
Place them like in trams - one behind one.
Comfortbilty... I don't think that is even a thing.
Well, we did say it *wasn't* made for that. So technicallyyyy the sentence is accurate. We'll see you in court.
@@cheddar Comfortbilty isn't a word.
Yeah, what's wrong with comfort? Or even comfortableness.
So it turns out it IS a word. However, sticking with "comfort" would have been much simpler! www.dictionary.com/browse/comfortability
comfortability. Noun. (countable and uncountable, plural comfortabilities) (uncountable) Comfort; the condition of being comfortable. (countable) The degree to which something or someone is comfortable.
probably shortened comfortability to comfort'bility for some reason.
I've lived in China for several years. That "perfect" design (the one they didn't pick) is TERRIBLE. Some of the older buses had that layout. If you were in the window seat and it was crowded, imagine trying to get out - crawling past the person in the aisle seat, squeezing into the narrow aisle and trying to get past the people standing in the aisle... And being in the back row window seat was the worst. I can't believe any professional ever thought this was the perfect design!
The design they did pick is very similar to what's used on the subways where I live (a city of 12 or 13 million that's just started building a subway system the last ten years). The seats all face the center of the car with backs against the windows. You can pass easily between cars through big openings. The areas near the ends of the cars don't have any seats, leaving a big open space near the passageway to the next car. The main difference is that the seats don't flip up and aren't sectioned into individual seats - just one long bench. Of course, one could say the Chinese have no problems with personal space, but if the car's nearly empty, they sit away from each other just like Americans do. When the car is packed, however, they'll squeeze in any opening on the bench that they can fit into. I do it too. I'd rather sit next to someone than stand.
The handicap area has a lean "cushion" for people who want to be supported by the wall. The problem is that the placement of the TV screens sometimes makes those areas awkward because the screen juts into the back of your head. Those zones are also hard to get out of without aggressive shoving by US standards when the car is packed.
Pretty much the only nitpick I can think of for the Chinese design. There are tons of benefits, like the benches not assuming how wide a person is, or how easy they are to clean compared to individual seats.
even in Japan's suburb trains, they don't use that also
The 5:34 design is being endorsed as "perfect" by a person who clearly didn't ride older MTA buses.
The truth!
@@ruedelta do you live in Jakarta?
People dont sit on the ends for the sake of sitting on the edge, they do it to get away from peopel
For everyone wondering, "comfortabillity" *is* a word. It just doesn't look like a real word because it's too hard to pronounce. Look it up.
Wtf who doesn't know what comfortability is, lol English isn't even my native language and i know comfortability is definitely a word
cherry.queen has this one 100%
“comfortability”
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.
She didn't say that, she said "Comfort-bil-ty"
Technically, it may be a word, but it’s a fairly new one. The term for a word like "comfortability" is “buzzword” or “marketing speak.” And while this type of terminology is not initially appropriate in an academic or business setting, often these words catch on and end up in more official/standard lexicons. Here is an example of the etymology of a nearly identical marketing-derived word, “sustainability.”
Since the 1980s, sustainability has been used more in the sense of human sustainability on planet Earth and this has resulted in the most widely quoted definition of sustainability as a part of the concept sustainable development, that of the Brundtland Commission of the United Nations on March 20, 1987: “sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.”
Well it just follows the English rules and just adds the suffix ability, so I'm not sure why there's a controversy
that "perfect" car design is so deeply flawed it's actually funny!
wossonjohn85 Absolutely! I was terrified this was the new plan. The open gangway cars look so much better.
What are the flaws?
@@MetalheadAndNerd Capacity and safety. Overcrowding is already an issue. Imagine if the design made it virtually impossible to stand on the sides? No one is going to comfortably stand in an aisle about the size of a small airliner (which isn't designed for standing when moving over long periods of time with lots of people moving in and out), so you'll just have even less space that isn't as safe for people standing to hold onto when crowding does become an issue. Or if there is an emergency and now there's a bottleneck to leave the car because space is constraint by all the seats?
Aerys Bat with the drunks and crazy people will now be around one end to another. Hell if someone pulls a gun at least the doors will be more secure and private.
Jonathan Pusar On BART in the Bay Area, the lay out is very similar to that. And people always avoid standing towards the end of the car because the aisle between the seats is too small. No one wants to put their crotch in someone else's face. So inefficient
“Comfortability”
Because sometimes the word “Comfort” just doesn’t have enough syllables to make you sound authoritative enough.
(From the people that gave you “Burglarize”)
Ridiculous!
Mike Baker to be paired with “uncomfortability” instead of “discomfort” lol.
Comfort is to comfortability is as able is to ability. Now be a pal and go get your GED,
@@afcgeo882 ability is a noun, able isn't. Comfort can already be used as a noun
Bri10 the point is that they’re different words with different meanings. There are so many nouns in the English language for a good reason. They’re not all interchangeable. Look it up instead of trolling! Try it, you’ll be smarter for it!
The new open-layout subways are a godsend in Toronto. Certain cars used to always be incredibly overcrowded while others could be virtually empty, due to the placement of platform entrances. Now they're much more evenly spread out!
(Also it's fun looking down the train as it goes around curves or up/down hills :D)
2020 Update: There still overcrowed!
And they wonder why covid hasn’t left
@@randomuser5443 lmao the new york subway system has basically lost its entire rider base from the pandemic. It's never been more empty or clean. Look at new york's covid cases compared to the rest of the country.
@@maevebaksa Yea, not only was the rider base lost, they stopped running 24hrs too. I smell a fare hike in the near future.
It is not overcrowded if you did not break your ribs. My colleague broke one in Tokyo subway.
@@CookiePepper Your colleague broke a rib because the train was too crowded? How did that happen? Just from being squeezed too tight? Sounds awful, hope they're ok.
The researchers didn't do the study during rush hours? Shouldn't the trains be designed around rush hour passenger traffic?
They were studying preferences, so they did their research when people had choices to see what people prefer.
it also seems that they apparently failed to ask _why_ people sit/stand where they do
@@comradecid Go into a subway car during rush hour and interrogate the passengers. That will go well.
this design is better for more comfort. while some may design for max people...
Exactly
Personally, I'd much prefer to sit in the middle of a row of seats where you face the open space of the carriage and its easy to get in and out, as opposed to having to jostle past somebody when you have the window seat.
same, plus the incredibly awkward tapping on the shoulder if/when the person on the outside seat falls asleep
Merry you are a monster
Eh, in vancouver all the busses and trains have that, no one cares, you'll get used to it.
@@mcp12300 I'm from London and in the buses you have that here. I'm 'used to it' but I don't _like_ it.
I too like having smelly dicks and vaginas and asses few centimeters from my face. And also being squeezed by an entire row of fatasses is simply divine.
All I want from the subway car is cleanliness and quiet. Every car I board is guaranteed to have either a panhandler, singer, preacher, or other disruptive individual. In my dream car everyone would stay in their space and keep quiet.
We have "quiet carriages" in Australia - www.vline.com.au/Fares-general-info/On-board
Bravo! Whether or not you like one style of seating or another, I really liked this style of reporting! It was clear, concise, interesting and did not appear to biased in any way. I have experienced the rush hour on buses AND trains. Certainly the problem is growing and getting worse. I hope the R-211 works out. Keep up the great reporting!
5:16 the airline style seats seem like people would jam up the aisle trying to get out if they have luggage
Not to mention you'd always have to be climbing over people to get into or out of the window seats.
Vancouver MK2+ skytrain cars are open gangway and airplane style . Not a big deal, very comfortable. Luggage isn't really an issue and most people have the foresight to start exiting a stop or two before their own if it's busy.
that airline style seats are already exist in european subway system for a long time and they are getting rid of them these days.
@DMTHOTH where are they?
The only thing I notice here in Europe is an overall reduction of seats in favor of larger open areas near the doors (so short-distance travelers don't crowd the passage further into the train, while long-distance travellers still have seats). But apart from that most designs still faeture transverse seating arrangements if there is enough width available.
That's what I thought.
Makes no sense...I've seen open gangway trains in every city in Europe, and some of these trains (like in Milan) look fairly old (older than the R100s). Why is this being touted as some revolutionary concept just because the MTA is slow AF?
And they even consider of not having open gangway after this trial? Why would they even consider not having having open gangway at all for any future trains is beyond me.
I live in Brazil, third world country,and our trains are like that for a couple years already lol.
the budget gets cut every year of the subways and the government doesn't want to deal with it and the people don't want to pay more either since tax in ny is already so high
@@tammytong2191 we don't want to pay more but we don't choose that option. 7 days metro card was 25$ 10year ago now we pay 32$ and 128$month. mta system is the same .
Some lines have a lot of tight curves and bends that would not allow for open gangways, plus if a train got into an accident, they would have to scrap the entire train instead of whatever cars were affected
Ugh. As someone who uses the MTA trains and buses multiple times each day, the airline-style concept makes me roll my eyes.
The MTA busses have the same rows of seats, and when there aren’t enough seats people stand in the aisles. There have been multiple times where I missed my stop because I was standing at the back of the bus and I couldn’t get out of the crowd and to the door fast enough. I can only imagine sitting in that last row of seats and having to push through that aisle crowd to get to the door.
And before anyone says “just ask and people will move,” I’d love to invite you to the subway trains during rush hour, or Penn Station on a holiday weekend, or Times Square at 8 PM on a show night!
Actually only very few JR trains in Tokyo have doorless cart passages (mainly a few regional lines) and I think also the 2 transrapit lines. So all in all probably not even 5% of carts in Tokyo are designed like the new New York designs. That being said I can however confirm that layout is featured in a few modern trains in Paris, all new lines (since roughly 2009) in Moscow, in Munich, Shanghai and sometimes in Berlin. I'm not quite sure but I believe newer trains in Beijing also have joined waggons
Me in Toronto: I wonder what the subways of the future will look like!
Video: Like the Toronto subway
You would think NYC would have the better design but I guess not. lol
MTA a broken system
But the TTC ain't all that either... availability and the fair for sumthin that's not 24hrs
😠hell naw
Look at Montreal! Our new Azur trains are amazing!
@@EdPMur They remind me a lot of Rome's newer trains.
@@jonathanpusar5931 Really? I'm gonna look how they look like
Nothing can change NYC trains. No matter how early you leave, you'll still be late for work
Sølo Are you sure they just didn’t just invent time travel and haven’t told anyone
That's something a person who is always late would say
@Richard Head exactly set off early be early that's how I have always done things. Better to be early than late.
Richard Head you can be early to work but the train can’t be on time. Trains can be run on a clock using AI and ML. Japan Trains is so rarely ever late. Singapore MRT is hardly late, a guess 12-20 times in a year. During peek hours the train is every 2-3 minutes that includes dwelling time. With a population of 5.8 million on a tropical tiny island.
@Richard Head Exactly!
It's now August of 2022. And I don't see these new train designs.. what happened?
The perfect one looks your everyday bus.
0:22 NYC Subway Rule #1: Never use your smartphone near an exit where an thief can snatch it from the outside of the subway car and run away with it.
Ppl still stealing smart phone??? Thought that was over with like how far you going with a stolen phone 😂
They also snatch things from the inside:
czcams.com/video/IFE9C7BBkTY/video.html
so you fucked either way... I don't go near BY anyhow..
@@campkira i travel naked
And slash faces with box cutters when you sit near the door.
the suggested design is not good anyway.
i prefer the middle seat than sitting on a subway car like an airplane, at least i could stand up and leave.
I think the idea of the airplane style seating is supposed to be for passengers on longer trips. There are singles seats that you would easily be able to get out of. In Toronto, like said in the video, we use the open concept. It works, but still has delays because like they said, people crowd the doors. I think there is potential for this, because there is lots of open space near doors for short trip passengers to stand if they'd like, or lots of room at either end of the car for seating.
I hate it when Im on a plane or a bus and I have to make people stand so I can leave.... I dont have this problem with subway
@@emilyktingey the airplane seating still sucks if your in there during rush hour then you can’t get out unless one person moves away from the narrow aisle
The main issue with open gangway trains is that now smells and sounds can affect an entire train rather than just one car. For example, if some hobo smells really bad, previously it would only affect one car; not it can affect multiple cars.
That joke is getting too old.
@@TheRailLeaguer: Joke? If you think that is a joke you obviously haven't rode the NYC subways regularly.
@@chengliu872 You joking? You haven’t taken a ride on the subways regularly because I ride there subways regularly. We NEED open gangways. They are long overdue. There’s no other option.
@@TheRailLeaguer: I never said that we shouldn't have them, just that there will be some negative consequences. Acting like my concern is not serious simply makes you willingly ignorant.
@@chengliu872 You’re the one that’s ignorant. The benefits of increased capacity outweighs any concerns, so there won’t be any issues.
Other cities have open gangways so why not NY?
*_The struggles of desperately trying to find a seat to do your uncompleted homework in the morning on the way to school is real man.. :/_*
newyork subway is overcrowded....
Mumbai local railway : child's play
JR East : not even 10% full
India is a bigger populace than NYC tho..so tis not surprising
@@Enzo575 sitting on top of the train doesn't count
Maybe you should do a video on Mumbai's subways. This is about New York.
@@LoganCharlesII a video can't portray it. you have to experience it
The TRB's design has the same number of seats but far less capacity because standing room is lost- that's why all major transit systems (NYC, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc) rarely use transverse seating on their busy routes. At the end of the day, this new design won't do anything to fight overcrowding and will just make it worse.
Actually transverse seating in the “ideal design” bear some resemblance to the Hong Kong East Rail Line Metro Cammell stock, but even these rolling stocks are on the way of retirement and will be soon replaced by complete longitudinal seating trains.
Well that is somewhat right. But also somewhat wrong.
Now obviously a standing person takes less space than a sitting person and longitudinal seating takes less space than transverse seating. However that is in theory and as it has been proven time and time again humans aren't perfectly behaving entities in a test environment.
The capacity of the train is actually not the most important thing to consider when designing these trains. The loading time is. It doesn't matter when your trains carry 10% less people when you manage to get 10% more trains in.
And it is perfectly explained why it usually takes so long to load the trains. People feel uncomfortable standing right in front of others. Or sitting next to them. With the longitudinal seating you basically have to push most people into the middle of the train while transveersal seating means you don't stand right infront of another person and people are more likely to move there quickly.
That being said wwe still have tot ake the width of the train into consideration. YOu can only reallypull that off with rather wide trains. London, one of your examples, is known for rather narrow trains on their older lines. They have no other option.
Krawallnoez Noezington if you only want to eliminate the time between trains’ operational time, then you’re right. However, that is the operator’s wish, not the passenger’s. Passengers measure their commute in just two factors: time and ease/comfort. Increased capacity on trains would allow trains to take on passengers that are right now stranded to wait for the next train, or even the one after that. That is the overcrowding issue. Having more trains run more often is a solution, but only for systems that can handle it safely, something the NYC system cannot do. It is at its operational capacity as far as train volume goes. The point here is to find a design of cars that fits more people and allows them to get on/off fairly quickly.
To maximize a subway train capacity so the passengers don’t clutter near the doors, a common solution is to have more doors per car. After quick googling, I see that NYC subway trains have 4 pairs of doors each side at most. In Hong Kong, all metro trains have 5 pairs per side.
ifurkend depends on the length of the car.
Me: lives in a town where the nearest city is 2 hours away in another province, 2-3 days driving time to NYC driving without stopping. Me clicks video
This video was extremely informative!! I loved in nyc all my life and always take the train and I learned a lot of stuff I never knew before 😀
Thank you, internet stranger.
Our subways in South Korea have already been only one long room (no separate cars) since some years ago. And the seats fold up to create more room especially during morning rush hours. I read Japanese subways is even more futuristic nowadays.
Nothing will solve the subway.
People will just adapt to cause more problems.
Michael Lyga Sounds like a really negative to say bro.... but you’re actually right and I agree lol
I agree too
Same as you all
Michael Lyga It is important to keep improving subways instead of giving up and cramming people in like cattle.
@Emil Ramos Yeah but ultimately fitting more people into the subway ought to be the goal so it's good to keep moving forward.
I have ridden the NYC subway for 15 years and I haven't had a problem since. Maybe it was a bit more cleaner, it would be the best.
open gangway is a no brainer, it also makes public transport more attractive because you have more light, space perception and are not stuck in a single car with some scary dude. also allows for movement to less crowded areas while the train is running.
Cheddar: ...and not have to worry about traffic
MTA: We're being held because of train traffic ahead
both of you are wrong its “ladies and gentlemen we are delayed because of train traffic ahead of us”
It takes 20 minutes just to get over the Manhattan bridge at rush hour. Crazy
friedcash Not really. Maybe 5-10 minutes. 15 at worst.
@@TheRailLeaguer I'm thinking about the B train to Brooklyn in particular. Q is better.
Oooooo open layouts. But will there be granite countertops?
And a plunge pool
and a fucking Kick me sight for any fool that get on the train...
That will be a further $40,000 if you can get the deal.
I heard they are having a bar on each cart
That's what people expect nowadays.
Great video! Anyone know the distance from the center poles in the middle of the aisles to the edge of the bench seats? I'm trying to determine the maximum width of a cart that could be wheeled freely down the aisle. This distance is more difficult to find online than I initially realized. Thanks!
6:39 My city (Singapore) has such open gangways in its trains too but commuters appear to not like standing in them. Probably because its bumpier there with fewer grab handles and poles too.
luckily the first design wasnt chosen...
those in the seats will have no chance of getting out during rush hours
Works well in comparable cities, like London and Paris.
plus the seats will become even more entrenched by hobos
@@johnperic6860 yeah its worse
shng sam: here in utah we have similar trains, those who have a longer distance take those seats at the ends then move to a closer seat or stand for the last stop or two.... it's not bad at all. People just have to think differently.
it just don't belong on train that had to stop for every 30 second..
After using the Toronto subway, the open gangways do help a little during rush hour.
I recall being in Hong Kong where the number of seats were generally reserved for elderly, children, pregnant, and others who need it. that created a lot more standing room and could fit more people. The trains were also a lot more frequent. Though, HK is a transit city where very few people drive a personal vehicle.
coz HK's MTR building date(1970s construction, 1979 1st phase of track launch) is later than every metro (NYC, London, Tokyo), so the car size is roughly 50% bigger than NYC rolling stock and one of the biggest car size when it build in the world: 23 metre long, 3 metre width, 3.7 Metre height, carry 312 passengers each car & 8 cars per stock(4 car when 1979) & 2 mins 1 train in peak hour
In New York City an open gangway on a subway train will just allow the showtime performers to harass more people and the homeless stench to waft throughout the entire train. You will not be able to get away from either of them.
@Darth Nihilus That and other cities don't have performers or homeless people.
LOL at new yorkers respecting handicap/elderly seating.
Edward Kowalski That joke is really getting too old.
I'm doing a presentation on MTA lack of punctuality so it be a blessing if you could tell me where you got your sources so I could better cover this topic
“Comfortability” 🙃
That is not a thing in MTA's mind.
The word is COMFORT.
the only thing about the open trains is that bad smells will travel throughout the trains and there's a lot of different smells in new york, especially on the trains
a sarin gas attackers dream.
I live in Toronto with open trains, we have had bad smells but they seem to stick to one train section. One person released a stink bomb and it surprisingly only stuck to one train mostly. It was funny because you can look in and see that there's a whole empty car and wonder why, and then when you get closer you realize lol.
@@TheMangoMovement i grew up in hong kong and i never experienced this
Lol, I'm much more concerned about a terrorist/mass shooter having free reign among the entire subway car
Would also make it easier for a mass shooter or terrorist attack to kill many people as opposed to only being able to do damage in one car at a time.
That study is idiotic. Other countries already did the research and have actual usage statistics and not one picked such an unusual seating arrangement.
different cultures have different habits
What country is that? The human behavior in NYC isnt human at all.
the designers often present a bad choice for comparesement
@GamingTV when in any sales you give a choice. you control the outcome by it.
As someone who rides the subway everyday, everything about the study was true. No one sits in the middle, everyone wants to stand by the doors, no one likes the horizontal poles to hang onto. The reason why the design still includes seats is because of the population of NYC. Standing space will always be greater than trying to create space for seats.
In Singapore some of the trains are automatic aka driverless for the downtown line there is a screen which will tell you which car is the most crowded
2-seat airline seating is terrible for short hop travel taken mostly by single people rather than groups. the situation where forward facing seats make sense is where you can replace 3 bench seats with 2 forward facing seats one behind the other, and end up with a little extra standing room. your seating capacity has effectively barely changed at off-peak hours, and you have more standing room for commute times.
I've always wondered what would happen if a London Underground train randomly pulled into a NY station as a test
London cars are tiny. They would fit. They run on the same rail gauge.
@@MilwaukeeF40C Only the deep level ones.
@@MarioAtheonio Even the standard ones are smaller than BMT/IND cars.
Moscow trains use the third rail and have been open ended for a few years.
Though perhaps the key is train control system which allows average wait time as low as 90 seconds. Simply changing carts won't really solve anything...
Also average speed matters a lot.
Here's a video of local Russian trains, if anyone's interested - czcams.com/video/gctdEPjBRHQ/video.html
@@NJ-wb1cz Agree! Frequency and regular intervals between trains is much more important then trying to make trains runs on a fixed schedule. !
NY subways having overcrowding issues.
China 'Hold my beer. '
olstar18 India: Hold my T-Series
Dream
Me: *Throws a PewDiePie shirt
Also me: “Get the fuck away from me India!
actually the subways in china do't have as much issues as japan
yeah china's bigger issue is those days long traffic jams.
It's called UNDERCAPACITY, UNDERBUILT AND PISS POOR PLANNING FOR POPULATION GROWTH, not overcrowding.
JUST SUBSCRIBED LOVE THIS CHANNEL SO FAR.
Don't wanna deal with overcrowding?
Go on the subway on late night.
Trust me, I went on the subway on late night before, there was no overcrowding. But if ur unlucky their might be overcrowding or crowding
Coming from a lifelong NYC railfanner, I have to say that the R62/R62A design is arguably the best one. It has eight seats per "bench" (as opposed to seven on an R142/R188), and there are four to six seats at each end of the car's interior (four if there's a full width cab, six if there's a half width cab & an accessible storm door to walk between cars; yet an R142/R188 will have anywhere between zero to six seats at each end, depending on if it's a blind car or a cab car). The R62's seats are defined & bucket-shaped (so you know exactly where to position yourself on any bench. On an R142/R188 however, it's just a smooth uniformly shaped bench (which even at it's longest length holds less than what an R62's longest length bench can seat), which means people can easily "manspread", taking up more space in the seating area than they are already supposed to. But at the very least, both the R62 & R142 (plus their respective variants) only have center facing seating, which means wider standing room, and it's easier to get in & out of a seat (the next example below will explain why).
And then you have the R46/R68 design, which I feel is the opposite. For starters, roughly half of the seating is forward/backward facing (and is always adjacent to whatever center facing seating is around), which makes it more time consuming to board/alight (i.e.; you're sitting in an aisle seat, but someone wants sit down or get up from the window seat next to you, so now you either have to turn or even stand up to let them in or out of that window seat). Next, by having much of the seating being forward/backward facing 2x2 seating, you have reduced the amount of aisle/standing space (and width) in the car, which is also going to make boarding/alighting more time consuming. Then you have the homeless/odor issue...if you wanna change cars (but really cannot wait until the next station or as of very lately you'd rather risk getting in trouble for using storm doors), the storm doors on an R46/R68 are always locked (R46/R68 cars are 50% longer compared to R62/R142 cars, thus resulting in more extreme gangway shifting when the train is moving), but at least on any other make, you at least have the option of transferring to the next car (assuming you can). Finally, the door/train length ratio is the worst with R46/R68s (a 600 foot long 8-car train of 75 foot long R46/R68 cars has 32 sets of doors on each side; yet a 561 foot long 11-car train of 51 foot long R142/R188 cars has 33 sets of doors on each side). The better the door/train length ratio on a Subway train, the more doors there are for passengers to board or exit the train, which in turn decreases dwelling times at stations & saves precious seconds which add up.
The most current state-of-the-art rolling stock (R143/R160/R179) is more or less in the middle here. These have a better door/train length ratio than the all the other train car variants in the NYC Subway (each car is 60 feet long & has four sets of doors on each side; a 600 foot long 10-car train of 60 foot long cars will have 40 sets of doors on each side). Similar to the R62/R142/R188, the seating arrangement is 100% center-facing...but it's the same uniformly shaped bench style seating as the R142/R188 (which brings up the manspreading issue). However, the storm doors are at least unlocked & navigable (unlike with the R46/R68).
tl;dr -- there's a lot of inconsistency with the train car designs that have been used, and these variances have impacted service in many ways on whatever subway lines they are assigned to. Realizing which design is most efficient is going to mean a lot moving forward with developing newer designs in the future.
o7. I can’t even explain this like the way you did lol
US Subways & Raiways are way behind Asian counterparts. The best is in Japan followed by Singapore, China, etc. Plus in Japan they are clean, never late and always on time.
Thant Zaw Win Korea’s are so nice too, and the WiFi is insane!!!
And there are people in Japanese railway stations hired to PUSH people into the train.
They are way beyond internationally generally.
US Subways are behind every country pretty much. However, there is a reason for that. It's because of the way our cities are designed. Public transportation generally can't get us to where we need to be.
@@dennisp8520 it's like saying in London, basically the tube was meant for London if you know what I mean. The reason why it is successful is because London is full of commuters and the company that run it atleast try and keep it to an OK standard
Off that looks like the btec new train that they're installing in the overground in London
Lol "btec train"
You don't mention standing room, which is important on a subway and why the transverse seating design wouldn't work necessarily.
Ah yes, cut the MTA’s budget repeatedly to pay for other projects and allow the technology and infrastructure to weaken and deteriorate and then equate that with overcrowding (which is arguably as a result of the aforementioned) yeah sure good one
fucking thank you .. someone understands. Wtf is MTA spending our money on.
What cuts lol
@@Pathtoadulthood unions, administrators, pensions, benefits
MK czcams.com/video/COLMODzYX7U/video.html
@@MK-ex4pb All things that should be cut to accomodate the customers.
The perfect design is a monorail, perfected by Shelbyville.
LOL!
As well as North Haverbrook and Ogdenville.
Bill Olsen it sure put them on the map
@@billolsen4360 - Wanted to post this. Saw your comment. Thank you. - It really put them on the map.
@@BatCaveOz Favorite part of that episode 4 me was Leonard Nimoy saying something like the cosmic ballet goes on & Barney next to him asking to get changed to another seat :-)
Search up Bombardier TR trains. It’s what we use in Toronto. Open space, very little middle seats. Mostly two or single seats, plenty of poles and overhead straps to grab onto. Personally, an excellent design. And they’re modern, easy ridership, clean and have year round working AC units. Which is nice in the summer and the winter.
5:51 Ok, those "researches" said that middle seats are bad. But are they seriously worse than trying to slam through other passenger to/from the near window seat? Proposed design is inhumane and idiotic. Person who've done it acts like they've never used the subway.
We've just recently switched from closed-ended cars to open gangway design for all the subways in the greater Frankfurt area. The trains just feel so much better and it's so much easier to spread out throughout the train.
But these trains don't look like what you've shown here with actual gangways which remind me of what is being used in Tokyo, and where the noise coming from the open gangways is unbelievably loud.
Yikes NY subway cars look old
The new design is basically how the German subway cars where I live looked for the last 20 years minimum minus the asymmetric door part
New York subway cars are battleships. The simple analog stuff they used to use is much cheaper and more durable than what they have to buy now.
nycbk23 we have 40 year old trains all over the UK, they don’t look any different to the new ones though as they have been retrofitted, there is no excuse for it really
@nycbk23 They are old and that's why they are old?
On the Paris Métro, a lot of the cars are new, but on some less busy lines, there are cars clearly going back to the 80s, if not the 70s. Manual door open buttons, those red rolling LCD panels for the next station, and some even have a lit up panel indicating which route you're going (Ligne 7 splits into two directions at Maison Blanche)
@@HughMiller98 what's funny is that all of those things would be considered cutting edge on the New York subway
Problem with the open gangway cars is that sometimes you come across a stinky car because of a homeless person who didn't bathe or someone who was drunk and had an "accident".
If it's all open, now the entire train will stink.
That’s not really true about open spaces at all (if it were the case, Connecticut would smell like New Jersey by now).
The layout of the R44, R46, R68 and R68A I'm use to those layouts.
I miss,the old Subway cars such as the R32, R40 Modified, R40 Slant, R38.
The "perfect" layout with no middle seats looks exactly like the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) near where I live in London.
OMG I just realised. SE London !!!!!
I just realised how good the DLR design is
Very common design for trams.
Yeah, UK aswell as Europe had these types of layouts ages ago.
Longitude bench-style seating in the middle only. Leaving the walls empty for standing patrons
Have all of the seats be fold up seats and if someone wants to sit they flip down one of the seats.
2:33
So close 😂
Bonus: The ride on the "A" line from the Inwood station stop in the upper most part of the island of Manhattan (New York County) to the Far Rockaway station stop in the Borough of Queens (Queens County) is 31 miles or almost 50 kilometers. It mostly runs underground until it gets to the Grant Avenue station stop (which is the last stop in the Borough of Brooklyn (Brooklyn County) and takes a little over 1 hour 6 minutes to get there (and only because it is close to the end of rush hour and outbound). The "A" train then continues to Far Rockaway and rides along a track that will cross two ocean bridges and is pretty nice to look at (taped in the dead of winter by McCrillis Nsiah). This is the video --> czcams.com/video/3G3ZOixulbA/video.html The following video starts in Far Rockaway on a beautiful summer's day (taped in wonderful high definition by DJH Trains) and ends at the Inwood station stop --> czcams.com/video/pphgq49lslI/video.html ENJOY!
A lot of trains in Tokyo are NOT open gangways.
Honestly, I like the sideways chairs, completely reduce travel sickness
Travel sickness? On the subway? Seriously?
David Hutchinson you've clearly never had to deal with travel sickness 🙄
That's not the only sickness you'll get riding the subway
so you are one of those who keep getting sick during the rush hours huh?
Epic Username youre probably a new commuter
The open-style design is brilliant! I really hope it catches on because that waste of space is ridiculous and people trying to walk between cars highly annoying if not downright dangerous.
I live in NJ and work in NY. This video is so true about NY train commute. Im happy the new design was launched today 🤩🤩🤩
Should hire from Tokyo Subway where they move 4B on time annually.
It also helps that most Japanese people are respectful and punctual which helps the system run on-time.
@@bee5120 Respectful? Ha ha ha!!!
No we shall not
Benjamin Acosta Not a solution for outdated car designs.
Yeah, except - www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/03/17/national/media-national/japan-struggles-overcome-groping-problem/#.XvOFaWgza00
Everything about the study is absolutely true! We love to sit alone or be close the door. Being in the middle induces anxiety of not being able to get out at your stop. I don't think either of those are perfect designs but I really like the open car idea, makes more room and allows people to spread out
A gang of rappers will approach your middle seat from both directions!
Transverse seats are really not the best on metro trains, they limit standing space and make it harder and slower to get on and off
I prefer to stand next to the doors just because I have to get out quick and don't wanna rush through the crowd.
If I have a choice, I prefer the R46 over the R211. The R211 has less seats, is noisier inside, and not as comfortable seats as the R46.
Literally 2 days ago I was taking the 2 train and some fighting homeless people pulled the emergency break while we were in a tunnel... An hour wasted.
Don't you have cameras and police always ready to come in and quickly drag abusers out at the stations? They should've been thrown out well before their fight got out of hand, this is essential to trains running smoothly.
that why i don't take train to work...
@@NJ-wb1cz They pull the break and left while the train still in the middle of the track.. you are hoping too much for the police..
@@campkira I'm not hoping, I'm describing how subway works in my city, with consistent wait times between trains around 90-100 seconds during rush hour, massive amounts of people, minimal to non-existent security checks.
People have very clear understanding that fighting in a subway is guaranteed to land you in jail overnight on some bullshit excuse like disturbing the peace, so they don't do it. Also they do understand that everyone needs a subway to work reliably, including themselves.
Also, you can not "escape" from a subway. It has very limited exits and even the most rudimentary monitoring system will predict which way they will try to exit well in advance.
Subway may be the easiest place to keep order in, if there is any desire to do so. The hard part is managing the constant flow of people when something happens, so it's much more beneficial to prevent delays and accidents instead of dealing with consequences.
@@campkira You wouldn't be saying that when you are crying about needing car insurance from your car crashes LOL
2:50 _"not for comf'tability"_
You mean *comfort* ?
this channel really is garbage
@Stephen Taylor Dictionary.com is not the most scholarly.
you need comfort to feel comfortable.then, comfortability is your situation.
Yass!
@@mmhoss Channel 4 news is garbage, they ranted about British trains even though they're pretty good.
it's June 2020 now and I'm excited to see how subways will do in July
What about Tokyo Japan? They are just as crowded if not more than NYC and they almost never late and the cleanest public transit I've ever experienced.
With the open gangway design they can just eliminate all seats in every other car. They should have at least gone with the offset doors though.
That would be a better design. Have compartments with no seats and extra poles (I also hate the overhead rail and whatever dangles down from them)
hogfather22 None of the trains have had straps or handles for several decades, but I think some buses have them. The bars over the seats always feel too close to the seats, even though it’s an easy reach for me. Other than the new vertical double bars, my favorites are the overhead bars which run down the middle of isles. Those just need to extend all the way to either end of every car.
them Futuristic ones look like Londons New Tube Cars
@Chris Greenhe's talking about design of the carriage, a train is a series of cars pulled by locomotive. The term "car" is the correct verbiage for the london underground, whilst the overland network still uses the term carriage.
and if you want to get technical the tube doesn't have "tube trains" it has "tube stock"
@Chris Green Nope
@Chris Green London, don't get your knickers in a twist because you happen to think your ignorant slang is correct.
@Chris Green im from the UK
The whole car thing is mentionned in one episode of Sherlock.
On a subway, comfort isn’t the main priority. The average trip is less than 20 minutes. Speed is the main factor.
Dominic Francis A Subway trip from Crown Heights to Lower Manhattan can take 30-40 minutes, not 20.
As a Bostonian I'd like to see a similar study here. Our Green Line is the oldest and has narrow, winding tunnels requiring articulated cars. The Red and Orange lines are newer and have larger cars.
Nothing can save NYC. Doomed to decay because of elected officials.
Comfterbility. I hate that "word". Comfort is enough.
I think she made it up. It's simply not efficacious when ones wants it efficient.
In miami we have the metro rail which is similar to the subways in NYC except above ground cuz sea levels and stuff. We have the regular metro rail cars with similar seating to the old cars of the past. Then we have smaller ones called mono rails that have no seating except for two seats on each end for handicapped folks. These have alot of space but you are required to stand if the seats are taken. No sitting on the floors
Thank you for the information !!
Compare to Japan, they use the “crowd rope” method to limit overcrowding in their subway systems. Japan subways are always precise with their time.
Coming from the TTC (Toronto) we love to complain, but damn NYC making our Rocket trains look good.
Obviously Toronto is seriously lacking in political corruption, nepotism & bribery. You need to get with the program up there! :-) When you mix the ruling party machine with organized crime, you get an perfect system of 'nothing happening for decades," while our politicians take unending luxury excursions worldwide to study modern transportation systems in London, Paris, Shanghai, Paris, Vancouver, Rome, Paris, Rio, Brasilia, Paris & Paris.
I think the old CEO of TTC might try and encourage the MTA to go with a Toronto Rocket type design, although the open gangway cars don't make much of a difference from what I've seen compared to the Bloor-Danforth (T1) trains.
I was recently in toronto and took TTC and i have got to say there trains are so much better definitely the open gangway would help with over crowding and the seating layout plus train running every 3 minutes was great compared to here where it can by 5 to 7. And there metro card system so much better to pay to get through there turnstiles no reswiping if you mess up just tap a paper version of a metrocard and your in.
Heheh... TTC - Take The Car :)
Bill Olsen “Toronto is seriously lacking in political corruption, nepotism & bribery” LOLOLOLOLOL you obviously know nothing about Toronto, where a streetcar line costs $500 billion and 20 years to complete.
everyone:
I don't have to feel weird around everyone
OCD people:
oh is that so
I love that drum music at the start