9,000 rpm, stage 4, predator 212 non hemi racing motor build tutorial!
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Full tutorial of a stage 4 install on a predator 212cc
Welded block
Big cam
26lb valve springs
1.3 ratio roller rockers
Port and polished and shaved head
Billet side cover and valve cover
Governor delete and low oil shut off
And a sneak peek of our new project if you watch to the end.
I work at Dynocams grinding cams for gocart motors we have all different types of cams from stock to wicked. If your lookin for something to make a lot of power i can grind you one and send it your way on my dime. Also we have a machine shop and any part you need for your motor. Thanks devin.
That’s great to hear! Thanks man what kind of cam would you recommend for super low end torque but also still decent top end? Im guessing something with a long duration? Any chance we could get you to make us something like that if you don’t have anything that would work for us in stock!
@MiniMetalFab send me your address and I'll get something out to you. Also what motor so I give you the correct cam.
@@devinbryan9456 could you send me an email I don’t feel comfortable posting my address in the CZcams comments. It’s minimetalfab@gmail.com also the motor is a predator 212cc non hemi!
I got a mod 2 cam & defenately doesnt have low end. I was expectung to have both low & high. I get beat by a semi stock predator, with an amazon flywheel, filter & exhaust 😂, i have all billet rod/flywheel, mod 2 cam, filter, exhaust. & only beat him by 4mph on top end. But from low to mid range ge walks me. Which is sad. Even with my fat ass brother 😂 & my gearing is .16 higher.
Any you reccomend? & link to purchase.
I would like to inquire something about a custom cam for low end and top end power as well if you can get back to me It would be appreciated!
It’s nice to see young guys in to motors especially doing performance upgrades. 👍
Yeah it is hoping we can help keep the hobby/sport alive!
Get the spring seat cutters from NR Racing or Studz. Good job on the head, the short turn should be a radius, not a drop off, best way to kill the velocity in the head is to hack away at the floor where it makes the turn, round it over, dont lower it. Same goes for the exhaust.
I love the way you welded up the two holes that are perfect for adding a PCV... you could have done what I did and drilled out and tapped the oil sensor hole and put a 90 degree fitting in there and run it to a PCV, the top hole could be done the same... and that stops you from blowing out gaskets and having all the oil blow out the pcv in the rocker cover
We run a pressure circulation system that balances top and bottom pressure and then any excess pressure get sent out to our oil catch can and vents out the top of that👍
Not bad my guy!
Definitely fun little engines to mess with.
Thanks man and yes they definitely are and not a bad price either!!!
Use old valves to protect valve seats when porting.
Can use puddy to check valve clearance.
Thanks for the tips will do appreciate it
You guys know your stuff!! Keep up the good work!!👍
Thanks man I will appreciate it 🤝
My 212 just needs to port the gead & polish exhaust. I have billet rod & flywheel, mod 2 cam, exhaust & filter. Im getting a slide carb soon. Did 61mph. Going to see how much more i get with the ported heads & carb.
Sweet sick build bro
see if a local machine shop can install 5.5mm valve guides so you can use your stainless steel valves, or just buy a different head from OMB that already comes with 5.5mm stems
Sounds good man thanks I’ll give it a shot. Going to see if we can get the valve guides installed good idea 👍
You end up selling this motor to a cart guy out of Redding CA? I almost bought it off of him but got a bit concerned it was raced pretty hard at that point so backed out. Nice work gentlemen. 👌🏼🙃
Nope lol. This engine went on one of our personal mini bike frames but. Sounds like a lot of fun. I've never tried cart racing besides when I was young. I'd like to get into it
Question what exact rod are you using
And what cam are you using
And how is the motor holding up?
Thx yall are the best
@@mozzde4675 we were running a .265 hot cam from gopowersports.com and the arc 6254 also from gps
@@mozzde4675 and the engine actually ended up blowing at about 300 miles bc it got ran out of oil but we just rebuild it bigger and better then ever stay tuned for that video coming out soon!!
Turn the music off so we can hear what you're saying, geez man!
I want the predator that was revving in the back ground before the welding scene...lol
Glad to see youngsters playing in the garage, I was getting worried about ur generation.
I'm worried too lol I'm a rare breed in this generation
Sheesh I thought I couldn’t port I feel a lot better now🤣🤣
Motor makes over 20hp so it worked more the. Good enough for us ☺️
Helps to clean up for oil return.
If your welding up the holes, why don't you cut the bosses off first so it looks better?
Did you fit a spacer to crank after removing the governor gear? (not sure about crank shape, never done a Predator motor)
You left the edges where valve pocket was machined too sharp.
Put it under the kitchen tap in direction you want flow and see where flow is breaking up from sharp angles. (not ideal but gives you an idea)
Air won't 'turn' more than about seven degrees so do that part (the bowl) first and don't worry about the carb side of port as much
You were trying to explain fuel drop out, with an 80 grit finish the rougher surface promotes turbulent boundary layer flow which will break up any fuel droplets.
Where are the dowels to locate head gasket and head? (19.08 minutes)
You can see gasket is way off center compared to bore.
When you do valve adjustment, it's easier (for 0.003") to use a 0.004" feeler and make sure it doesn't fit, then you know it can't be larger than about three and a half.
Why do you have 'breathers' that can't do anything?
Running them into exhaust pipe as an extractor would be better than nothing.
No wonder the 'stage 1' at beginning was showing oil leaks around gasket and filler.
I think your way out with your estimate of 20bhp, a Honda XR200 with a 240cc kit can only make about 22bhp before blowing up around 13,000rpm
If your promoting this as a tutorial, try and get things right
No need for spacers. The crank has a stop built in. And there is no need for dowel pins on the head anymore it has an aftermarket header gasket with apr head studs that locate the head and the gasket automatically as you tighten them it pulls it to center. And the vent breathers balance the crank pressure between the top and bottom of the motor and the 3rd one lets the excess pressure vent to the catch can and out the top of it with a 1 way breather. It makes a significant difference on power output.
@@MiniMetalFab Not seeing any sort of oversize diameter on new studs to locate head gasket, pretty sure you should still be using the hollow dowels on the lower two studs (19.05 - 19.09)
@@1crazypj on most engines that’s correct but on the one we have a gen 1 predator the .010 head gasket that we got has smaller holes for the head studs.
@@1crazypj u can get the parts we have from ombwearhouse.com
@@MiniMetalFab I understand completely what your saying but I don't see it happening looking at the video where gasket is at least 1/8" (3mm) out of position. I've built hundreds if not thousands of different engines over the years as a motorcycle service tech, manager, instructor, and 'plant fitter' working on construction equipment, etc. and often see problems from my experience. (did over 30 Honda GX motors first few months, was there total of 8 years) Take a look at Donut media '1000 HP Honda' build about 2 months ago, he's bragging about how much power it makes but you can see valve springs fitted upside down. (I left a comment telling him but it's been ignored)
Did you measure piston in the hole? If so what did you have? What cam did you use?
265 hot cam for now. Waiting for a 308 cam to come in. And we didn’t measure piston hole. Just did a test fit and then measured ring gap. And they were all good. I’m sorry but I don’t remember what they came out too. Just make sure you read your instructions on installing it and see what your ring gap is supposed to be at and see if yours are there.
Love the socks
Same lol 😅
You need a check valve inbetween valve cover and catch can
Why do you say that?
Idk if u installed bronze valve guilds . I didn’t and they dropped . Lucky nothing bad happen. It did hit 9550 rpm’s Though .
that a 24mm pwk? what you end up jetting wise? pilot jet size? build looks great you stick with the 26 lb springs or upgrade
Yes if is and for jets we ran a 38 pilot and I believe a 120 or a 125 main jet. And thanks man check out our latest engine build on this block we took it even farther now! Stage 5 head 44lb springs exc 👍
@@MiniMetalFab appreciate you brother subbed for the journey looks amazing!!
What are the main components to make engine run on higher speeds without destroying it self?
Main things are valve springs cam rod and flywheel
Do the rod and flywheel need to be lighter?
@@Ivan-tp3jw no stronger the stock ones will breakx
Why would you weld the side of the motor. Its far more important that the thing cools off at a good rate. The block will overheat and seeze the rotating assembly before it comes apart
Bc it actually helps the block cool more and it disperses the heat and the block take it all out of the fins and it adds much more strength to the block. When you turn 8k plus for mikes on end you need the strength!
I did 3 things to my predator 212cc hemi motor removed the governor and added a torque unit and a performance muffler and it tops out at 74 mph
Big cap lmao. More like 54mph
What chassis & gearing? I have a coleman cc100x with billet rod/flywheel, mod 2 cam, stock carb with filter & exhaust & toped at 61mph. My nephews 100x with just governor ziptied, filter, exhuast & amazon flywheel does 58mph.
nah bc i was on stage 3 on my hemi 212 i should’ve js kept it instead of selling it😭
Forgot the head guide for head and gasket
Nah it got head studs so it didn’t need them anymore 👍
What cam are you guys running?
265 hot cam
You know the hemi head is better, and ypu can use vlone parts in there. Like all the clone parts.
Cams and everything from a clone. So that way you can get betwr cams, springs crankshaft, rods, and all
Oh and use the ducar motor. The flywheel is way better and will handle higher horsepower. Pluse you can get the ducar for $199.
It's a way better motor, and is made for racing period
Actually based on my testing and research I’ve done. The hemi head is better for low end and torque on a small block and the non hemi is better for top end power especially on high hp builds bc of the angle the valve and spark plug are at you can actually get away with shaving more off the head and you can actually open up the intake and exhaust port farther for even more flow. That’s y any high end performance small block head will be a non hemi. And I’ve never heard of those engine blocks before I’ll have to look into them. Thanks for the tips 👍
@MiniMetalFab I race the ducar predator motor. My motor builder will tell you differently about them. He builds everything from cars to these, ot small block open motors lol. He dynos them all.
Maybe you need to talk to him, lol 😆
The ducar motor is better then your normal motor like this one. It is race spec right out the gate. With a 17,ooo rpm flywheel already installed.
Not being mean by no way. Or a smart ass.
Just trying to help you. I have a spair one if you want one
@MiniMetalFab clone parts fit in there, gx200 parts fit. There is so many parts that can fit in them 212cc it's not even funny. We have people that use them parts in the class I run and it's illegal to use them in these motors for the class I race in.
Just even putting the cam from a clone motor in the 212 or even just the carburetor from the clone will give you 50x more take off then just these stock ones.
And we run fuel pumpers on ours. Not these crapy top loading gas tanks
@@toddbeal4373 hmmmmm what CC are they? 212cc that’s what we have currently have a hemi and a non hemi both are built! And I’d be interested in the motor I would love to make a video about it! See what it can do exc…
I'm building a 420cc predator motor with nitrous
Lift the gas tank above the motor next time.
Lol there was no more gas in it
What welder is that you're using to weld aluminum
A miller syncrowave 300
@@MiniMetalFab thanks lil bro
what was the size of that piece metal you welded onto the block?
1/4” thick 1.5” wide 3” long
@@MiniMetalFab is it a aluminum or cast iron metal
@@515.Outdoors aluminum cast aluminum engine case and then that block was just a block of normal aluminum
330 cam wha makes the bike dips
Oil vents aren't going to do anything like that either
Not stage 4. Stock big cam? Uhh what size? An thats not making 20hp. Probay 11 hp
Bro clearly can’t comprehend what he’s looking at 😭
I think you forgot the dowels on bottom 2 head studs
Nope we got a different type of head gasket that is smaller for the studs so u have to take the dowels out
Don’t waste your money with a 308 cam I took mine out and I put a fire t265 in. A 265 cam with 1.3 ratio rockers will put you around 345 lift.
Thanks for the advice!
@@MiniMetalFab it’s all right kiddo good luck with your new channel. I hope it grows.
Can barely hear you cause of the music...
Your music is distorted, it is hard to understand what you are saying.
Thanks good to know! I’ll have to look into that!
The music is dope but yeah a good tip on editing is to fade it out on key technical points and crank it up for the parts showing the work being performed.
It’s irritating for people that are here for the gospel of performance engine building to rewind due to the choir drowning out our funky e z baked preacher 😁. Y’all doing a bunch of stuff right.
Do all your modds and come race me I'll smoke that thing
Just give a coat of spraypaint
only 26lbs? you should run some 36lbs
Yeah 26 for now. Eventually will be getting the billet head for it and they come with 55lbs springs in it and stainless steel valves
@@MiniMetalFab nice, make sure you get something to start it, i broke 3 fingers pullstarting my bike with 48lbs springs.
@@lancedmemes2255 good to know thanks bro appreciate it
@@lancedmemes2255
What broke your fingers was incorrect valve lash
@@aaron7520 i ran 03 on intake and exhaust, on comp stroke, I did nothing wrong, checked my valve lash like 10 times. the spring pressure will fuck ur fingers, even if its correct.
Get a 330 cam cuz tha a stock cam
No that’s not a stock cam at all. Lol. It’s a 265 hot cam
@@MiniMetalFab wait Fr wha the hell
@@562_wizardk yup lol I will be getting a bigger cam but for now I’m running a 265 hot
This is not a stage 4 build😭
Your right it's stage 5 💀
Why would you even weld them you obviously don't know what your doing because I sure didn't weld them and they don't leak
You man think that. But that’s where your very wrong!! No matter what bolts u put in them it leaks. And when your making as much power as we are every little bit matters. I can promise you yours leaks even if you think you don’t see it. It does especially after you’ve been riding and the motor gets hot
That's not 20 dude it's not even 15
More like 23-25hp on pump gas. Don’t speak until you know the facts.
I’m not saying that you’re not making over 20hp but I have never gotten close to 20hp with a stock ported head and only 26pd springs. I have gotten 17hp with a stock shaved ported head and 26pd springs 275 lift cam with 1.3 rocker putting the lift to 355 which is about max for the springs and push rods flat top piston plus .040 rod and I had it on a dyno max rpm was 7500. I built one 212 with a little over 25hp and that was an aftermarket ported shaved head 40pd springs 308 lift cam 1.2 rockers chromoly push rods wiseco thin ring piston .020 rod so I can run the thin head gasket and that went to 9k rpm. If you got 25hp with 26pd springs I want to know your secret.
@@Jasonkartracing yeah it all depends on how good you are at porting and polishing and how much you shaved off. Lots of factors. This is the third 212 we’ve built. It has everything done to it. The only thing we’re missing now is the ss oversized valves and titanium lash caps. It’s got a 265 hot cam for now. Getting a bigger one soon. And will be getting the billet head as well one day for it. We’re in no rush right now tho. Got too many other build going on.
@@Jasonkartracing what cam would you personally recommend for this build. It currently has a 265 hot cam. And 1.3 ratio rockers. But do you think a 276 lift cam would be good. Or a 308 would be better?
Go with the Mongoose 272
They are Engine’s not motor’s motors are Electrical.!!!! Why people call them motors I’ve no idea… Engine’s are internal combustion…..
Oh big whoop 😭😭 using the correct terminology your just so cool 💀
a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.
@@shainhoon4929then we should call it an ambulatory system because it is the heartbeat that causes blood flow and provides locomotion to the overall body.
It's an engine, we have words to define distinct nouns for the very reason of identifying exactly what we are conceiving, trying to convey, or attempting to convince others to help use create.
Accuracy is key, but precision is everything.
The wrong word used can lead to a failed creation by way of a missed translation.
It's DMV not DEV. When's the last time you went to the Department of Engine Vehicles? lol😂😂 you're an ass
Annoying background music
Damn you got some wealthy parents
Nah I just made myself wealthy lol no daddy’s money here 😏
@@MiniMetalFab I was saying that because of the nice home / property, I didn't think it was yours.
That's literally my dream setting / garage
@@JJC991 hahaha yeah lol the home is my dads. Just started my business and he wants me out lol so I’ll hopefully be getting my own shop in the near future 🤞 I do love his garage tho it’s beautiful 😭😭
@@MiniMetalFab nice, hopefully you get it going soon man
@@JJC991 yeah I hope so too. And thanks man appreciate it 🤝
Why did you guys replace the studs for the sidecover and then use the allen bolts? 😂
The billet side cover can’t fit the studs. Not enough room to put a wrench on the nuts to tighten them. Have to use Allen bolts unfortunately
Talk about weight reduction 😅
Yeah it is actually all the billet parts weigh less then the cast parts did and no gas tank or gas tank mounts or stock exhaust or carb and intake setup all the stock stuff is much heavier
@@MiniMetalFab but why add all that weight back on with a piece of metal welded to the head
@@richardramirez-st8nc the metal only weighs like 5grams it’s aluminum stock very light and bc it adds insane amount of strength and heat dispersion to the jug. Better to have strength and reliability then the cut all weight at all cost. We turn these things at 7k+ for hours on end when we go out riding. Not trying to have it blow apart on us!
@@MiniMetalFab oh got ya, just looked really big and heavy
@@richardramirez-st8nc nope it’s not bad lol