How to reduce TEAROUT when using a HAND PLANE
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- "In this video, I show you my approach to reducing tearout in figured timber. We cover grain direction, plane anatomy and sharpening techniques.
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How to make a protrusion stop:
czcams.com/video/I417VVog0Bc/video.html
What plane should I get for making a guitar?
Personally, I like to prevent tear-out by utilizing my procrastination tool and never actually getting to the finishing steps of my projects, thus avoiding the issue entirely
As much as your build videos are really interesting and bloody inspirational to watch, I can't thank you enough for these last few 'how-to' videos. As a newcomer to woodwork, they have been invaluable in telling me stuff no-one else thought to! Thank you, Matt!
lol the cat analogy, "it turns around and claws your face off", love it!
Matt your videos are fantastic.... I've been a carpenter for near on 17 years now mainly working on sites. I've recently started some finer joinery work as a hobby and you are curing so many of my bad habits with extremely useful and valid information. these videos are invaluable and I cant praise you enough. wise beyond your years!
For me, as a newbie, after setting up and sharpening, this has been the most the most useful video I’ve seen thus far. Totally mesmerising and notes taken throughout. I’m limited on how much I can plane due to upper body difficulties, so it’s more important that what I do is done right. Thank you, this video is more appreciated than you know.
So, I for one, find extreme value in 'how to' videos. Especially like this. I've been building furniture for a while and I fully appreciate and pay close attention to see what other woodworkers like this guy are doing. I've picked up so many tips from this channel. Thank you! PS No one worth their salt gives a rats tail how you say "lie nielsen" so just ignore them.
Thank you my friend! Glad you're finding it useful and I have since fixed the pronunciation anyway!
I've never seen a video you have done until this one. Loved it. I started using a hand plane recently and this is really useful. You actually explain.
Thanks
Here's a great one and a very in depth comparison between high and low angle planes: czcams.com/video/DqXINyj3rB4/video.html
You just saved my new hobby.
Wow! Cheers from an American cousin across the pond for taking the time to make these instructional videos. absolutely hats off to you sir, for both explaining in functional detail and not being a stick in the mud. It is evident you truly love your craft and wish to share it with the modern world which seems to become less advanced/refined/civilized each day., particularly for us who were brought up framing and decided on a whim to get into finish/furniture to appease the Mrs.'s taste for hand crafted furniture that a working man cannot afford! Thank you, thank you.
I think at this point I've watched every video on youtube explaining grain direction, and while I got it through my thick skull a while ago, if I had seen that book demo first, it would have saved me 100 hours of inferior videos about grain direction. Thanks Matt!
"Tear out is when shit hits the fan. " Matt Estlea
I have to put that on my wall!
Matt - I would encourage you to use the cap iron instead of any of the methods you're using. It's got several advantages:
1) it's better at tearout reduction than any of those once you've got it figured out
2) it requires you to keep only one smoothing plane at the bench for everything (end grain, long grain, reversing grain, whatever). You will get very good and fast with a single plane, and it will always be right in the nick that you like because you'll be using it
3) there's no tool modification required, and no need to purchase things like steeper frogs (which are less effective than using the cap iron).
4) the plane becomes dependent on the cap iron to reduce tearout and not sharpness. There will be no tearout, all the way to the point of complete dullness
5) a plane with the cap iron engaged in the cut will plane much further into dullness than a plane with a single iron (far less sharpening) and tolerate a thicker cut to get initial work done. You'll probably sharpen 1/3rd as often per volume of work. Perhaps less.
Planes like that low angle plane were originally marketed to smooth plane butchers blocks and things of the like. They are less good for long planing, which is why they didn't sell well until there was a large amateur market.
David, relax - this video is handplaning 101. BU planes are easy to use. The chipbreaker on a BD plane is a superior method of controlling tearout, but it takes more skill. I echo your sentiments. Still, BU planes are another option. They work well - just not as well as the chipbreaker can. Derek
See czcams.com/video/1bhh6kxXZOQ/video.html
How does the length of the plane body make it worse for long planing?
Hi everybody, i warmly suggest you to read this three parts higly interesting article from Steve Voigt, a plane maker, about chipbreaker, it's history, function and you'll get how great technology step this invention is.
blackdogswoodshop.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-double-iron-part-1.html?m=1
And have a look also to that Chris Schwarz demo, less talk and cinema effects, much more effective to my humble opinion than that amazing youngster:
www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/fine-tune-a-handplanes-back-iron/
Merry shavings !
That sound of the jointer taking those smooth shavings out of the birdseye... mmmmmm
Incredibly in-depth, informative and useful.Also fun to watch you. Thanks a ton!
Good, clear, solid information; no bullshit and easy to follow.
Thanks for focusing on "why" instead of "how". The how is nice but the why is far more important.
21:20 "It'll be unfair to not try it with the grain as well 21:44 "Oh that is bloody lovely!" 0:14 "It digs in, and you start reconsidering your career" That's how I can tell Matt Estlea LOVES doing this. Because these are thoughts I have too.
Excellent video. You showed in detail what many others just sort of talk about.
Hi Matt my name is Andrew from Australia.
I have been watching some of your videos and I may say you have an amazing explanation skills.
Well articulated and very clear and not boring at all.
Well done Matt you have a teaching gift.
That comparison with the book was really helpful. Thank you for the video.
Informative, authoritative, fair, funny. Rare combination! Thank you.
I was just starting to do the finish planing on some padauk. It tore out miserably using an LN low angle jack with a 35 degree blade. I thought "Now what?" I resorted to a card scraper and after a lot of work got it to looking pretty nice. I think I'll go and up the LN jack blade angle a bit and see how that works, but this time on a scrap piece of padauk. Thanks for the tip on going to very high angle.
"When shit hits the fan". Pretty much happens everytime I do woodworking haha!
thumbs up brother !! I've watched dozens of videos on this subject and this was the best ever. Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate the fails ! No one ever does that . Annd I'd like to second RCworks comment as well
nicely done.. best video on the topic i have seen. very comprehensive
Dear Matt, thoroughly enjoyed your video on reducing tear-out. An ad flashed up asking whether I like your workbench and would be interested in getting a hold of the plans. Yes please.
I have the same plane with the 55 degree frog as well, it is awesome, works amazing.. just spend the money and get one.. you won’t regret it , and will have forever 👍😊
Pink Ivory is why God created the random orbital sander.
You're a good teacher man!
Wish I could put two likes on this video- one for tearout being like stroking a cat the wrong way and having it rip your face off (s ill chuckling about that!), and another for the suggestion of using the angle box to measure the sharpening angle- brilliant! Thanks!
Exceptionally good presentation. Thanks for your knowledge
Yet more knowledge imparted, many thanks. Just this morning I have learnt so much.......and my planes are working as they should (all be they they old second hand). Might have to justify a 'new' Neilsen hey?
I laughed at the cat analogy ,lol hilarious :)
I'd crack wise about the thanksgiving turkey suffering a strange fate at your place, but this was indeed a helpful video; thank you.
Great video . would love to see a part two that talks a little about your thoughts / experiences on the importance of throat clearance and chip breakers. maybe you covered this in a previous vid.
Chip breaker setting is the key. It needs to be very close to the blade. A regular plane with a 45 degree frog and standard bevel will handle bad grain just fine. Of course, the chip breaker needs to fit right, and the blade needs to be sharp. A Japanese guy has a video showing the difference the chip breaker makes.
Awesome information was almost like being in a class. Thank You.
You are quickly becoming my favorite utuber.
I'm sure this is widely known, but this actually really helped me, thanks
This video was so helpful, thank you Matt.
Brilliant analysis, Matt! I really enjoyed watching you go through different grain using these planes.
You make sharpening look so easy I spend hours trying to get my chisels and crappy plane blades Sharp and I have the Veritas honing guide which definitely makes it easier I still just don't have the right equipment yet I have the two DMT Diamond plates double sided butter only 2 inches wide
Have a look at my earlier videos on comparing the Lie-Nielsen honing guide and the Veritas honing guide. I think you'll find it interesting
Eric - you may find more success with something like a grinder, a single washita stone, a piece of bare leather (and no guide). I won't go into details about washita and stuff like A2 and V11 (aside from saying that they're not optimal for it), but if you're using a lot of mid-market stuff, the washita is great. It's actually lovely for A2 and V11, it just needs something following for the final work on an edge because the washita appears (under a microscope - rather the blade under the microscope) to be pulling a few carbides from an edge. It's still sharp, but not quite what it could be.
At any rate, sharpening this way is about a minute process, and because you're usually only using one stone, there aren't too many rules (there's no sets of bevels to keep straight, etc).
It’s actually better to contaminate a 6000 stone with 1000 grit particles than 1000 stone with 6000 grit particles. The 1000 grit particles are too large to get down into the 6000 grit stone, but the 6000 grit can easily get into the 1000 grit stone. I wish I had a link to a more credible source than just a trolling your comments. Your videos are awesome. Great production value, great information, great delivery. Keep it up!
Great explanation of grain. Thanks.
Matt
Pink Ivory?
Man up and stick in a lathe and make round things out of it...of course a cabinet scraper's good - super high angle and loads of control...and loads of work, maybe sandpaper!
Really enjoy the videos
BEGINNER QUESTION HERE!!!
If high angle blades cut great shaving, why dont we use high angle all the time?
this is a timely recommendation for me lol. just started getting acquainted with my plane today. had a good time tearing up my wood
I am an older woodworker who is new to it. I am new to this but watch a lot to learn as much as I can. But I am curious, how did you learn what you know. Did you have a mentor?
An excellent video but you seem to ignore one important thing with the bevel down planes - the chip breaker.
The English Wood Worker covers it really well, but there's also a Japanese video which shows a slow motion video to compare micro differences in its set up.
It needs to be sharpened to the correct angle as well as fitting against the blade, and set correctly - I certainly couldn't be bothered with a secondary bevel when this bit of the plane is specifically there for this purpose.
I'd also love any and all new Veritas plane/s but even a Bailey #5 works well like this.
Hi Matt, before i start i should say that im very much a beginner, albeit a passionate enthusiast of woodwork but a beginner nonetheless and just when I thought i was all ready to buy my first plane thanks to your awesome series of videos (thank you) I made an error...... I went down a CZcams rabbit hole and found more videos on the pros and cons of the “low angle” jack plane in particular one by Rob Cosman and whilst he agrees that the 5 1/2 is perhaps the most versatile of planes, he doesn’t rate the low angle ones due to the lack of weight and side on surface area which can make them more unstable on the shooting board so now im stuck! Go for the standard bench plane or go bevel up. Also im at the low end of the budget bracket, i know i know buy cheap buy twice but we are where we are so how do you rate the Axminster rider vs say the wood river planes. Hope you can help, im going for a lie down now i have a plane shaped headache! Many thanks in anticipation :)
I get your point about using a bank bevel with a higher angle as a way to get less tearout, but what about the effect of the chip breaker? My understanding (which is limited as I'm just starting out) it's that it'll help reduce tearout without needing to have such a higher blade angle (on a bottom bevel of course)
mnason15ify the chip breaker is there specifically to reduce tear out but few people seem to cover it.
On the chip breaker:
Hone the underside of the leading edge, honing a relief behind the front edge - so it sits flat on the blade when fastened / so no wood can get trapped between the blade and chip breaker.
Hone the leading edge at a consistent angle of (from distant memory - check on Google) around 80-84° to be bevel up against the blade - so it looks like an arrow when the blade and chip breaker are fastened together.
This then deflects the wood shaving up after it starts travelling up the blade, rolling it tighter than it wants to go.. This resistance pushes the wood down so it doesn't lift - to avoid tear out.
To set the chip breaker, you'll only truly care when using it on lighter cuts, so set it close to the blade - it's distance to the blade will prevent heavy cuts (jam) if set for finishing.. So on the finer end, set it so you can just see a hairs width of the shiny blade edge reflecting past the chip breaker - experiment with greater distances for heavier cuts, say 1/2mm, 1mm etc, and back out entirely for hogging wood off.. And remember to wax the sole of the plane unless wax will affect your intended surface finish.
And don't use a secondary bevel when using the chip breaker, it isn't necessary, and if too steep (say beyond light honing with a steel rule to remove the burr), will prevent the chip breaker from sitting up against it.
This was brilliant and well enjoyed! Thank you.
Great video again Matt. From my perspective, good timing too as I'm having 'fun' with some Iroko at the moment - classic variable grain and difficult to plane. I'll be ordering a second blade for my No. 62
Cor I bet 'fun' is an understatement! Yep, a second blade at 50 degrees should do absolute wonders for that. It's a satisfying feeling!
Very informative and helpful videos! Thanks for sharing!
Good thing I watched your video, i would have guessed a lower angle would reduce tear-out.
Thank you for your videos? Re the pink ivory, have you tried wetting the wood, especially where you're getting tearout on the ends? I use a small watercolor brush and lay the water on very thinly, then let it soak in for about 20 seconds. There should never be so much water that it runs down the sides. just enough to moisten the wood fibers on the face to be planed..
Great Videos Matt. I found your channel by accident last week and have been catching up. Good stuff.
Cheers! Projects to start again soon!
Thanks for this very useful video.
Why is it that you don't use oil on the bottom of the plane, to reduce friction and improve the cut?
Great education. Thank you
Thank you for these amazing videos (must admit, watching your channel on repeat). Following your recommendation, i went and bought myself my first quality plane: A Veritas low angle jack plane.
I do have one newbie question: If the 25 degree blade is so bad tear-out wise, what is it best used for?
Looking forward to your answer
Only thing you didn't mention was, in bevel up blades. When you start sharpening above 30 degrees in any plane blade the durability of the edge is reduced the steeper the pitch gets! In other words it dulls a lot quicker than a bevel down plane blade at 30 degrees with a steep pitch frog.
Hi Matt, I enjoy your vids - just a critique but at the end of your vids it would be very helpful if you summarised up at the end... Just a thought mate, some of us dyslexic and just good with our hands ;) None the less thanks for your vids!
Hi Matt. I’m a bit late to this thread, but I’m sure you said you’re a lefty but in your video on bench hardware you have the end vice fixed for right handers. So which is it?
I bought some Oak a short while ago, Matt, and went to plane it and it all went to pot; I go so much tear out that I really lost my rag. Well, I’ve come back to it this week and decided to watch this video again to try and give it another go. I now have a spare blade and I’ll give the high angle and back bevel a go. It’s one thing to know it and a whole other thing to try it, so now I’m a but more experienced with sharpening, I can put my limited knowledge to the test.
Also, in the video, you mention that the low angle jack plane isn’t your favourite plane, so I was just wondering which one is. Thanks.
Curious how a number 80 cabinet scraper would have performed in this side by side comparison.
Interesting....do you not put a back bevel on a low angle/bevel up iron? I had this conversation when I bought such a plane, and all indications were to do so, but I had my doubts.
This was extremely helpful! Thanks!
Newbie question: As a lot of Lie-Nielsen planes have 45, 50 or 55 degree frog options, is there any advantage of buying them with 45 degree? Does 55 degree always produce better finish or is it only in case of "complicated" wood?
Great videos recently Matt, keep up the great work! cheers Steve
So, why not just keep a high angle at all times? What does a standard angle give you that wouldn’t benefit from a high angle?
Since you've mentioned it...What about choosing between LN #62 and Veritas one? Any thought s on why to choose one respert to the other?
What do you think about adding a "microbevel" at the angle you want on your blade, rather than having an alternate plane blade with the desired angle? I have heard this suggested by Lee Valley reps.
I noticed you doing something (perhaps subconsciously) ..... planing with the plane at a slight angle to the direction you are pushing into! The plane is still flat but I wondered if there was a benefit to the smoothness of the cut by doing this? Before anyone starts I am purely an amateur in this area!
It makes more of a shearing cut as opposed to whacking the timber with the full force of the blade. The drawback is that it effectively lowers the angle of the blades cutting action the more you angle the plane. Which is exactly the opposite of what we want to do in this video with regards to reducing tearout. A high angle is needed. Think of it like climbing a really steep hill. It’s less of an incline if you zigzag across the hill as you ascend to the top, whereas if you went straight up you would be battling the full incline. I slightly angle the plane to create the shearing action, but don’t do it too much that it lowers the cutting angle drastically.
Sorry it was a bit of a long response, maybe I should do a video on this in the future!
What is the best desk material?
This made me wonder if there is a plane out there that has a variable geometry frog.
Hey Matt, can I use a low angle plane with a high angle blade and stroke the cat backwards with it if I have a face shield on? Betcha wanna watch that video.
Why not always use 55 deg? What's the purpose of the 45 deg plane?
That's the best into ever
Hi Matt, I'm enjoying your videos, particularly your builds, keep it up. I notice you did not address the distance the chip-breaker is set from the blade edge, as well as the angle of the chip-breaker leading edge as factors that can help to minimise tear-out in bevel down planes. What are your thoughts on these adjustments with regard to reducing tear out? Do you believe they are not effective or are you not aware of their influence? I don't believe that these factors are widely understood or discussed and I haven't played around with them long enough to be sure of the magnitude of their effect vs frog angle and/or mouth setting myself. Although I've read several sources that believe the chip breaker setting and angle can make just as much if not more difference than the actual bed angle in a bevel down plane with regard to minimising tear-out. Cheers, Dom
With the high angled plane, is that possible to just set a 10-15 degrees bevel on one side and just simply flip it over and place. Does it matter what the bevel angle is with the high angled plane? If so one side of the blade is flat which is same angle as the frog and when you flip so it is frog angle plus the bevel angle. is that possible or positioning the chip breaker is a problem in that case? thanks.
Can you alter angles on a lunchbox planer to reduce tearout. I sharpened my planer to 8000 grit on whetstone, put a bit of scaffold board through and it came out worse than it went it
I own a low angle jack plane, and drawing from experience with the Charlesworth ruler trick, I’ve always applied a back bevel as I would any other plane iron. Am I making a mistake by doing so on a bevel up plane iron?
thank you
Matt, I have some great news! We’re all okay with you leaving out the zooming and swooping sounds when switching angles and zoom levels. That’ll save you some time to make even more awesome videos :)
Like many others here, I’d also like to thank you for your clear educational videos. Thank you very much!
I turn my blade over and \ or change the angle i sharpen much easyer with a pull plane
What do you think of linseed oil wet sanding to preserve and show grain patterns on these hard/impossible to plane grain patterns? My myrtle wood piece is tearing out with a Veritas low angle block plane. The plane does fine with purple heart. Thoughts?
Hi Matt,
I love your how to videos!
So, why don't use all the thime this angle?
It's slightly harder to push and it's not as good for squaring end grain on a shooting board. A low angle slices through end grain easier
Does sanding help.?
Hello Matt,How does a smoother plane (or jointer as you used in the video) with a high-angle bed, blade or back bevel compare with a scraping plane, or a toothed blade? When would be the time to use one vs. another?
The only time I would use a scraping plane is if I was trying to flatten a burr where there is literally no grain direction whatsoever. Otherwise, a high angle blade copes with reversing, curly or figured timber quite well for me! Hope that makes sense?
How do you make a woodworking plan?
Why don't you prefer to use low angle if it sets the angle easier and reduces tearout?
Still no personal BIO available? You go to the block list.
Great video, thanks. What do you think of the Axminster Rider no 62 low angle jack? it seems to have good reviews and is a good price etc
Birds eye is why I'm watching this lol
Hey Matt, great video as always! Any thoughts on putting a back bevel on a low angle block? Would there be any real advantage?
a block plane is a bevel up plane anyways so a back bevel would not change the effective angle . however it could strengthen the edge slightly. I use a small back bevel on most of my plane blades to avoid polishing the whole back ( See Charlesworth ruler trick ) . this however is slight 1or 2 degrees and at most 1/64 to 1/32 in length ( enough to accommodate any camber on the blade . for bevel down planes it limits how close the chipbreaker can be set)
IT could also potentially make the blade unusable as the backbevel could touch the wood before the cutting edge does preventing the edge from biting.
I see you like the Veritas and the Lee Nelson planes what is your take on the Wood River planes you think you could do every View between the both of them
I don't think we have Wood River in the UK but we have Quangsheng which are very similar. I only compare Veritas and Lie-Nielsen because they are what I have used in the past and what I am familiar with. I don't compare them to other brands such as Quangsheng, Wood River or Clifton because I haven't had sufficient experience with them to make an accurate comparison. But I'll bare your comment in mind and do my research one day! Cheers mate
FYI Matt, Peter Sefton sells Wood River planes in the UK. I've used them on one of his course, very good planes. cheers Steve
Oh fuck. I did get some massive tear out and I did reconsider my choice of hobby...
Mitchell Jao
Want to eliminate that tear out fast and easy? Go here: czcams.com/video/9pAVgfSPMN0/video.html
Maybe just a single layer of the anti-slip mat?
Love the videos but im starting on my hourney and theres ko way in hell i can afford any of the tools you have listed.. Can you recommend cheap tools for absolute beginers please.
Try second hand and take a look at his kit.com lists too, because he mentions budget priced options to dream priced options.
I have a mix of new and old stuff, and the old stuff is quite easy to find and actually really well priced. Take a look at your local antique shops and also where Matt used to work, Axminster, since they do some really well priced chisels. Good luck.
Yo Matt, as a general purpose plane, are there any disadvantages to having a back bevel on a standard 45 degree frog setup? I often get tear out and am still discovering the best setup for my shop planes. I'd be interested to try the back bevel but would appreciate your opinion on any cons? Thanks ;)
Alex
Not Matt, but I do keep a work pitch on on my planes when working with wood that can tear out. It make the cut a little harder and you have to take shallower cuts. Also pay attention to the "chip breaker" distance from the blade edge. The close to the edge the less likely you are to get tear out, but the cut gets harder. Further back, you get an easier cut but tear out is easier to do.
ehisey Thanks for the advice ;)
The grain direction was nice, but I didn't understand how plane angle works on the grain. Anyon wante to explain in the comments for me?