Who Would Be Jacobite King of the UK Today?
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- čas přidán 6. 10. 2022
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CREDITS:
Charts & Narration by Matt Baker
Animation by Syawish Rehman
Audio editing by Ali Shahwaiz
Intro music: "Lord of the Land" by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under Creative Commons Attribution license 4.0. Available from incompetech.com
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11:46 how many of us hoped that somehow the daughter's name would still be james
Or at least Jamie
Me😂
"Who had a son named James, who had a son named James......named James......son named James."
Royal lines can be a bit of a broken record sometimes. 😁
That'd be very typical of a British comedy skit! Perhaps by the Pythons, or by Black Adder!
I thought I was the only one who hoped that. 🤣
Charles II, James II's brother, used to walk around London with only a secretary in attendance. Anyone could talk to Charles, making requests or declaring complaints, and Charles would listen while the secretary took notes. James told Charles that was very dangerous, anyone could assassinate Charles. He replied: "Jamie, nobody is going to kill me so you can become king." Charles died peacefully in his bed.
Not to mention everybody was so heartily sick of living under the Cromwell theocracy that assasinating Charles II was unthnkable. Cromwell singlehandly set back the cause of democracy globally by 200 years.
Ouch!!
@@williethomas5116A common Russian defence against assassination- ensure a ghastly heir no one wants.
@@alecblunden8615 but that is a double edged sword because when you die you have to get rid of your closest relative too or else that person in the end does rule.
Royals out and about with no, or minimal, security was common up until August 27, 1979 when Lord Louis Mountbatten was assassinated.
You explained a very complicated subject in a concise and easy to understand fashion. Great job!
5:32 A small correction: it was not "Jacob" being variation of James but really the other way around - James being anglicisation of "Iacobus", the Latin proper name. At the time, monarchs in Western Christendom, Catholic & Protestant alike, were formally referred with Latin names by default. At the time, then, James would have been referred in treaties, acts, diplomatic letters etc. as something like _Iacobus VIII Rex Scotiae & III Rex Angliae._
that is some crazy knowledge you know there, straight off the bat. You must be a historian of some sort?
@@andrewbird6267 Thank you for the compliment. I am a student of history of some years, yes, but the information necessary for my contribution is readily available these days. Wikipedia alone goes a long way.
I'be seen that in Russian tradition of English king's naming, where Charles is called "Karl", William is called "Vilgelm (variation of Wilhelm)" and James is called "Yakov (variation of Jacob)". I think that in other languages (French, German etc.) it might be the same way
@@user-sj5wz7tt9u Yeah, most probably. In Finland Charles III is the first British monarch whose ruling name will _not_ be translated (Kaarle III) but will be written and pronounced in native form. I guess it was deemed that the population has learned to pronounce English widely enough.
Not sure whether this policy will be observed with new monarchs of other countries, though.
Yes even his coins all use the latin name Jacobus rex. .
I think most kings from normans onwards used Latin spelling, William- Guellum ( wrong spelling but close enough)
John - Johan.
Others just had ius added.
Edwardius.
Henricus
Charles- Carolos
I think women stayed the same
Anne
Elizabeth
Mary .
Victoria.
Video suggestion, who would be LORD PROTECTOR of Great Britain?
Cromwell set it up as a hereditary office and passed it down to his son Richard. However Richard failed to maintain it as the monarchy returned, but What if the line of Lord Protectors continued?
Great suggestion. I see he had a ton of daughters and granddaughters.
Really funny that some random dude nearly created his monarchy.
Lord protector created a republic so there’s no succession at all. Case closed!
@@StoneStoryHenriZ He was actually offered the crown by Parliament, but refused after much deliberation
@@StoneStoryHenriZ To be frank, "republic" didn't mean democratic in those times. The succession was de facto primogeniture, so the Protectorate would've functioned the same way North Korea does now. Both are "republics" but the heads of state are passed down just like in a monarchy.
You forgot to mention that Prince Joseph of Liechtenstein is the first Jacobite claimant since the Old Pretender to be born in Britian.
He did this video once before, a few years back, and in this older version he did point out that fact you mentioned.
@@dorderre Ya, wondered why he did this video a second time.
He also british educated. He went to Malvern College.
@@Sunsetaren The "true" monarch of Great Britain is whoever parliament says it is, so meh to your hysterics.
@@Sunsetaren
#1 is being gay a reason to exclude someone from the line of succession? At least in England/GB/UK?
#2 that's a technicality based on your assumption that the answer to #1 would be yes. Even if it were, it wouldn't change anything that came afterwards. It would have switched one pretender for another and the rest continued as is
#3 see #1 and also see #2
#4 that's an oversight on Matt's part which he should change. You're right
#5 what happened in 1485? Oh yeah, the welsh Henry Tudor conquered England and was recognised by parliament as the new king.That's really all the claim you needed to be monarch of England. Every older claim was null and void from that moment onwards. Then you got the Republic, when - you guessed it - parliament decided, they didn't want a king no more, only to change their opinion again eleven years later. In 1701 parliament decreed they didn't want any catholics anymore etc which made the throne go to the Welfs, the Wettins and now the Oldenburgs. Three german dynasties in a row just bcs they didn't like the catholics xD
The “group of nobles” who invited William to invade England did so at the behest of the bankers to whom they owed huge sums of money. William was also bankrolled by Dutch bankers, who financed for him the largest army the world had ever seen. The bankers were rewarded with royal charters for Bank of England, Barclays, and other major banks that still own Great Britain today.
Much of modern banking practice was invented by the Dutch banking system. Also one of the founding members of the bank of England bought into it with a tally stick. Effectively it was a contractual apparatus of a debt. Which is the most banking thing I can possibly immagine. Buying into an asset with an instrument of debt (another asset) and the asset being purchased is designed solely to be a debt instrument for funds to be raised for the crown/government which has to maintain the debt in perpetuity.
And so England again was conquered by a foreign monarch, which - against what the legend says - happened quite often. It was the last time however because soon the king would be a powerless figurehead.
‘Dutch Bankers’
You nailed it,hermes logios
@@str.77 The English themselves are descended from foreign invaders who originally came over from what is now Schleswig-Holstein and environs. Many also came over from what is now Denmark. But the Danes were present in almost all western European countries, in fact they established a Danish kingdom in Dublin! Most Europeans today have Danish ancestry, even as far south as Italy.
I’ve watched two of your videos and I am pleased with how easily you presented the complicated lines of succession in both videos. You have a way of synthesizing complex information into a concise and understandable summary. Very enjoyable and informative.
13:58 I was not expecting this plot twist lmao. That was amazing. Great video. Love the lore.
When it comes to Useful Charts, he will pull the most interesting facts forth, and knowing how these types of things work, I had a suspicion that there was a Jacobite tie to the current dynasty, but I was not certain where it would lie. It is a most intriguing wet of facts.
Would love to see a video about how Louis IX, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt is the new Nearest Common Ancestor of all reigning European monarchs.
History Tea Time with Lindsay Holiday made a video about this topic, showing that all of them can trace back to Johan Friso of the Netherlands. Not sure if he's the latest though.
@@dorderre *John William Friso really was the nearest common ancestor of all european monarch, but that title passed to Louis IX, Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt when Charles III succeded his mother, Elizabeth II because he is a descendant of Louis through his father, Prince Philip. But it's unlikely that Matt would make such chart because Matt only does ROYAL (aka. at least a King/ Queen) family trees. (Licheinstein and Monaco are principalities and Luxemburg is a Grand Duchy.)
@@mr.d8747 it is not John, the other person is right it is Johan Willem Friso
@@mr.d8747 I think Matt would do minor state hereditary items given the traceability of the people involved
Do you have a link that video?
Wonderful presentation ,thoroughly enjoyed it!You have a very pleasant speaking voice,too!Thank you for sharing!
Appreciate the clarity of your information so much! Great work! Incredibly interesting!
Funny how part of the Jacobite resistance to King George and his heirs was that they were German... when the current heir to the Jacobite line is also - wait for it - German 😅European royalty really is one giant mish-mash of relatives!
Better a German than a Catholic, I guess.
@@TheeGrumpy Prince of Liechtenstein is a German speaking Catholic.
It's not that they sincerely believed that being German was an impediment to rightful inheritance. It's just that it was a useful rhetorical tool.
Ancient Egyptian Royal family trees are more extreme versions of a mish mash. Cleopatra’s Greek family had so many uncle, niece and sibling marriage.
It had nothing to do with him being German, it was because he wasn't the rightful King.
The plot twist of the Spencer’s was crazy! Great video! Love this channel as always!
As was the 1997 twist
No way on Gods green earth is that a coincidence.
If you think that's crazy, consider this: Charles III is descended from both William the Conqueror and Harold Godwinson, in both cases through the female line.
Oh. My. Goodness. This was amazingly explained and contained all the perfect research I needed for an essay I'm writing on the Jacobite uprisings! Thank you so much.
I have just discovered your Chanel and enjoyed this video so much I have subscribed. Thank you for the ease in which you explain things. You make it easy to listen to and understand. I will be visiting your channel often from now on.
Bonnie Prince Charlie had an illegitimate daughter, Charlotte whom he later legitimised and gave the title of Duchess of Albany. In fact she took care of him til his death. She had three children but theu weren't legitimised. I suppose they could have been legitimised if Charlotte had seriously been considered the Jacobite heir. There is also scholarly debate as to whether her children had children or not as they were raised in obscurity because their father was a bishop. But a illegitimate daughter can be legitimised to inherit a throne. Prince Albert of Monico is on his throne today thanks to the legitamising of an illegitimate daughter.
Rainier iii's mother was "adopted" thanks to the new law of succession in Monaco
@@cyrilmarasigan7108 yes but before it was considered invalid, she was legitimised.
Theoretically, but it tends to not happen. The Beaufort line was legitimized, but it was made clear that they were not legitimized to be included in the succession (nobody understood Henry Tudor to be King on the strength of the Beaufort line).
I thought that it was a prerequisites for legitimisation that the parents got married ?
In general if Bonnie Prince Charlie had actual legimage sons (maybe by a British woman) the Jacobite claims would be a lot stronger than just following the Catholic succession that is also foreigner decendants of Elizabeth Stuart (the way Sophie of Hannover and her son George were).
But practicality it never would have happened that the line would get the throne after parliament decided against it. Unless it was more official and legimage version of Charles and Diana match we saw here. The way happened after Norman invasion and the old Saxon claim being married into the new royal family.
Wow, so the Jacobite line has come full-circle! I love your charts - thank you for all the charts you share with the world!
That's what I was thinking! Full circle. :D
It hasn't. The Jacobite line is the senior legitimate line of descent, according to male preference primogeniture, from the Royal House of Stuart. The lines of descent from the Stuart to Spencer are illegitimate, so they are entirely separate from the Jacobite line.
@@thomasburke9060 the line is still there though, illegitimate or not.
@@1CelloOne What line? The illegitimate lines of descent from Stuart to Spencer are separate from the Jacobite line. So "the Jacobite line has come full circle" is false.
300 years of inbreeding will do that. It’s surprising it took so long.
Well said and very interesting indeed thankyou for the effort you put into this .
Thank you so much for your brilliant explanation, you have made the Jacobite line very understandable.
As soon as the Earl Spencer popped up I went “oh shiiiiit” out loud. The idea that Diana could have a claim to Charles’s throne is hilarious.
Edit: some of y’all are taking this way too seriously holy shit. I know how the actual line of succession goes. I just thought it was a funny twist.
Ridiculous, more like. People are taking the idea of an illegitimate line having rights far too seriously. It doesn't work that way.
@@thomasburke9060 Hilarious and ridiculous aren't mutually exclusive 😁😇
As Matt has said in the video, quite a few ridiculous things happened that led to the current King Charles III. So, they do happen. It's just not really very possible or practical. Though, the population could get angry again at the current monarchs, and an idea gets spread to invite someone who seems more grounded/less inbred/more religious etc to be King or Queen once again!!
What of Diana's older sister?
@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 He mentioned in the video that William wouldn't be the most senior member of that family line. It's just a funny little tidbit that Diana is from the family line that made a real effort to ensure that Charles' family line was kicked off the throne.
10:50 There are also some who consider the marriage between Maria Beatrice of Savoy (Duchess of Modena) and her maternal uncle, which was illegal in England, to be invalid. They consider that Maria Beatrice’s claim passed to her younger sister, Maria Teresa of Savoy, who was married to Charles II, Duke of Parma. Her claim passed to her grandson, Robert I, Duke of Parma. His claim passed to two of his unmarried sons, Henry, Duke of Parma and Joseph, Duke of Parma (who both had learning disabilities) and then to another son Elias, Duke of Parma. Elias had eight children with his wife, Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria. His claim was inherited by his son Robert Hugo, Duke of Parma. Robert Hugo had no children, and his claim was inherited by his elder sister, Elisabetta, who also remained unmarried. Her claim was inherited by her younger sister, Maria Francesca, who also remained unmarried. Her claim passed to her younger sister, Alicia. Alicia was married to Infante Alfonso, Duke of Calabria and they had three children together. Upon Alicia’s death in 2017, her claim was inherited by her grandson, Prince Pedro of Bourbon Two Sicilies, Duke of Calabria.
Pedro's eldest son, Jaime married Lady Charlotte Lindesay-Bethune, a Scottish aristocrat descended from King Charles II Stuart in illegitimate line. Jaime and Charlotte are currently living in the UK.
Also, Jaime is a version of James!
So, instead of Joseph of Liechtenstein, I support Jaime de Bourbon.
This is very interesting. I recently made a chart of the Lindsay family that I posted on the useful charts subreddit, it features Prince Jaime as well!
I'm against monarchies myself but if you must i prefer a non-Liechtenstein one
I doubt the brits would go for anyone with the Bourbon name
Since Jacobites generally believe in succession by divine right, this “illegal” marriage between uncle and niece is of no consequence to them, plus all uncle-niece marriages between royals received Papal dispensations, so Franz is still the rightful Jacobite heir
The convention is to recognize marriages from other jurisdictions as valid so long as they were lawful in the jurisdiction in which the couple was wed, even if the marriage would not have been valid in the jurisdiction where its recognition is in question. What follows from this principle is that the Duke of Modena's marriage to Maria Beatrice ("Queen Mary III of England") should be recognized as valid for these purposes.
Fantastic, Matt! Extraordinary alternative scenario game! The last twist of this story is a turn of the screw, indeed. Warm hugs, professor.
So clear and well done, thanks for sharing!
Absolutely amazing video, such a joy to watch. Good work!
Matt: Henrietta had a son named James, who had a son named James, who had a daughter named...
Me: ...James?
Matt: Anne.
Me: what a shame.
Jamesella
Just on that they lost the right to monarchy.
Jaime de Bourbon would be okay. Most Brits like the biscuit.
Very funny 🙄
Which means William will at some point be the most senior heir of Charlemagne and the legitimate heir to the throne of England from the "classic" line AND from the Jacobite line.
Man has some crazy family history.
William is a descendant of an illigetimate son of James II and VII, the Jacobites do not recognise this line of descent
The Jacobite line _is_ the "classic" line. And William isn't in it.
William is unquestionably the heir of his father but he can claim only illegitimate ancestry from the Jacobites and thus cannot be their heir.
And the most senior heir to Charlemagne? Not even close
The line of the Spencers is not legitimate and thus is not recognized by the Jacobites but even if it were William's uncle Charles Spencer would obviously hold a stronger claim than William because he was a male and thus ahead of Diana who was his sister not to mention they have 3 older sisters.
@@thomasburke9060 Yep
Kudos for all the research you must have done to produce this extraordinary video. Mightily impressive!
The true king of gb is an Australian republican. The tudors had no legitimate claim to the throne and therfore neither did the stewards.
I decided to check who the most senior mpp descendant of William the Conqueror is, and despite that line losing the crown many times, it often got the crown back through marriage, eventually leading to... James II & VII and therefore the Jacobite line. So Franz is not only the most senior mpp descendant of James I & VI, he's the most senior mpp descendant of *William the Conqueror*.
what is "mpp"?
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 male-preference primogeniture
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 “Male-preference primogeniture” The inheritance system where the title passes to the holder’s eldest son - unless they have no sons, in which case it passes to their eldest daughter. If they have no daughters either then it will jump back a generation.
The monarchy of England (& subsequently the United Kingdom) used this system* from the Norman conquest up until 2013, when it was changed to absolute primogeniture (the same, except gender is not a factor - the crown passes to the monarch’s eldest child).
*With caveats like the no-catholics rule mentioned in the video.
@@ksolesky2 isnt that already what it is?
i mean it isnt game of thrones where thye intentionally skipped over a woman just cos shes a woman
By male-preference primogeniture he's the most senior descendant of Henry Tudor, Robert the Bruce, William the Conqueror, _and_ Saint Margaret of Scotland, the sister of Edgar Aethling, the last man elected to be King of England by the Witan.
[EDIT]: The last bit about the Jacobite relation to Edgar Aethling turned out to be more complicated than I originally thought, and that is because of the Scottish succession crisis. Franz is indeed the senior heir of Robert the Bruce according to primogeniture, but Robert's claim to the Scottish throne was _not_ based on primogeniture. There may be more senior descendants of the pre-Bruce Scottish royal family.
Apart from the Jakobite Stewart argument against George I of "Hey! James should be King", another argument they made was not wanting a German ruling over Great Britain. Thus I can't help but be amused by the fact that the person with the best claim to the Royal Stewart line is... a German!
He isn't a German. He's from Liechtenstein. That is an entirely different country. They speak a dialect of German, but that doesn't make them German, any more than the Irish are English merely because they happen to speak English.
Fascinating. Thanks for that!
...quite brilliantly done
fabulous voice too
big thanks for
for upload
truly first
class
Hey Matt.. Love your work... It really makes history more interesting to learn, cause I learned a lot.. I have a request.. Can u make a video on the heirs to the Spanish throne (the prince/princess of Asturias) who never got the crown.. Thank you
Carlos Maria Isidro es el rey
i was not prepared for the twist at the end. how fascinating
Of course, the Act of Settlement of 1701 confirmed that the Sovereign is whomsoever Parliament says it is. The Act of Settlement excluded 50 persons who were more closely allied to the succession as they were Catholic. This act set out how, following the future Queen Anne’s death (William III was still on the throne at the time) the throne was to be inherited by the children of Sophia, Dowager Electress of Hanover, and granddaughter of James I and VI. The Act had named Sophia and “the heirs of her body being protestants” as next in the line of succession. To this day, women may ascend the throne and rank equally in precedence with men since 2013 but Catholics cannot inherit the throne. Future developments will continue to be whatever Parliament decides. The Sovereign rules through Parliament and the succession to the throne can be and is regulated by Parliament. The Sovereign can be deprived of his/her title through misgovernment. The Act of Settlement confirmed that it was for Parliament to determine the title to the throne.
This does not apply 😅in Scotland as the monarch is only sovereign through the people and not parliament
You're great, man. Great job!
Love the alternative successions, could u do more like the Carlist in Spain
@God Save the King! they haven't, the main line died out but there is Prince Sixto Enrique, Archduke Dominic of Austria, Louis Alphone Duke of Anjou
There may be some political... implications, if he does.
@@fedsavi same as if the Jacobite successor were to state a claim, it's all hypothetical
@@thomasdixon4373 yes but the jacobites never supported a fascist coup that I know of.
@God Save the King! Yes, the Carlist militias supported the nationalists in the Spanish civil war hoping that Franco would restore the monarchy under their claimant, unfortunately once the civil war ended they were stabbed in the back by Franco, but they still helped him win.
Proper German correction: Der König VON Grossbritannien. Love this channel btw. Keep it up, Matt! 👍
I think both are correct from a certain point of view. If it's a physical object you're the king of, then it's "der König des ..." (der König des Spielplatzes, der Bohrinsel etc). But if it's a political entity, you're saying "der König von ..." (der König von Deutschland, Großbritannien etc.). So when you imagine Great Britain not as the Kingdom, but as, say, the collection of islands that make up the physical lands of Great Britain, then "der König des Großbritannien" would be right, as weird as it sounds to our ears.
@@dorderre Well, I don't think old George would have spoken of himself as "King of a certain collection of Islands in the North Sea" but as king of this special entity that is Great Britain. "König des Großen Britannien" at best. You are right, "König des Großbritannien" sounds weird, that is why I called my correction proper German.
Could be DER KÖNIG GROßBRITANNIENS
@@hartinspeedmund1181 It wouldn't be "König des Großbritanniens" with an "S" at the end?
@@alexwright4930 I Guess it wouldn't be technically incorrect. But it would definitely sound weird to german ears. Average Klaus on the street would never say it that way.
Two American tourists met the Queen who was out walking near Balmoral with a courtier, not realising who she was. After asking them were in the USA they came from, the Queen said she had a house nearby and alos in London and had been coming to Scotland for 80 years. The Americans said she must have met the Queen to which she replied "no but he has".
"What is she like"? said the Americans?
"Oh she can be a bit tetchy but has a great sense of humour".
The Americans said goodbye and walked off. I'm unaware if they realised who they'd just met. Queen Victoria used to do something similar.
I love that story! That was Richard Griffin, the Queen's former Royal Protection Officer, by the way. If you look up "Richard Griffin on the Queen's sense of humour", you'll find him telling the story himself. Such a lovely story!
I really enjoyed this. Well done!
Really useful information.Thanks a lot.
You do such a thorough job and make it so understandable. You, Matt, are a great teacher and communicator. As a history buff, I must correct one tiny error You accidentally said illegitimate child of James II and ... here comes the error, "Charles I" when in fact it was an illegitimate child of James II and Charles II (brothers) which then makes Prince William a direct descendent and the 1st to sit on the throne of both Stuart kings .... if all goes as expected.
This was such a great video.The visuals have finally helped explain the Jacobites to me.
This is refreshingly easy to understand. Thank you!
I was not ready for that twist!
Same.... That was pretty incredible.... Maybe that was why the Queen hated Diana so much. Because she is the decedents of illegitimate offspring in the royal family
I love these alternate succession vids 😀
I absolutely loved this presentation!
Seeing these family trees, you can't help but see the long-term thinking that some of these families have clearly done to ensure their positions of power. I'm picturing members with walls covered in family trees with strings tied from one end to the other and them all planning on how to get certain families married to others and keep the plans and family lines in positions where they will be secure.
I can picture them planning in a room where the family trees are on display and them planning who to marry who to ensure security.
I lead tours in Scotland an explaining the Jacobites is always a challenge as there are so many people involved (as well as the added bonus of people having the same name as others and being called different things by different people) I think I'll offer to link them this video in the future if they're interested! Thanks for making it.
It can be presented at different levels of complexity. Most simply: the aristocracy chased the Catholic King James II out of the country and replaced his line with the most proximate Protestant line.
Brilliant work :) how come I've never seen your work before?..... Definitely a "ticked the box and subscribed now" thanks for posting :)
That was very interesting, thanks for posting it. 🏴
Please make more charts about languages I love them!!
As for Scotland The family of Hay has many branches through Scotland, and can trace their history back to the Norman princes de La Haye who were part of William the Conqueror’s army that swept into England in 1066. Sir William Hay was created Earl of Errol in 1453, and this branch held the office of Hereditary Constable of Scotland from the time of King Robert the Bruce. The family still retains that title, giving them precedence in Scotland second only to the royal family.
That's interesting. I always thought the Normans were never able to gain a foothold in Scotland, although they were present all over England, Wales and Cornwall.
I didn't know I wanted to watch! Thank you!
Thank you ao much or these wonderul genealogy charts. I've always been ascinated by the line of succession and you really helped to clarify it for me.
3:08
I love that the Prince of Orange is in orange border
I knew the twist was coming because of the first video, but this was laid out much better and narrativerer.
"narrativerer" 😆 Great word.
This video is fantastic. Very well explained ❤
Thanks for this video,more information on family history coming to life for me.
Fascinating! Very clearly explained, bravo. If anyone is interested, you can see the Stuart tomb in St Peter’s, Rome…James II, his sons Bonny Prince Charlie (the Young Pretender) and Cardinal Henry are buried there. And the Young Pretender’s widow is buried in Santa Croce, Florence. Their palace in Florence is now the faculty of architecture, University of Florence.
Charles and Henry were the grandsons of James II
Yes, sorry, I meant “James III, his sons…”
Fascinating!!! After 42 years of hearing that Princes Diana had more blue blood than Charles and never knowing through what line, it all finally makes. This is amazing!!!! Thank you for a job extremely well done!! Looking forward to checking out your other videos!!!!
She had more English blue blood than the Royal Family
Well put together.
Thank you for your clear explanation. I was able to follow this complicated information!
Surely Charles Spencer would take precedent over his sister and knowing that man, would make sure he got the throne!
I would be interested in a video on who would be king of England had the Normon Conquest not happened.
Either if failed or if it had happened all the male lines disappear basically that century but the female line don’t, by Harold Godwinson’s line, Gunhild’s line could give the same as the Bourbon claim to the French kingdom (Earl of Richmond -> Duchy if Brittany (house of Dreux) -> house of Montfort -> house of Valois -> house of Bourbon. The other daughter, Gytha, could give the current heir to the tsardom of Russia, but mainly because the actual line of the Riurikovich from the Kievan Rus got lost in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, making the Russian tsar the best claimant to the throne this way. By Edgar Aethling’s (the heir of the house of Wessex, as Harold ) line through his sister we get the king of Scotland and the house of Dunkeld, but the following succession crisis, make me think this claim as unviable
@@thenormann3773 Funny how the last Czar was a grandson of Queen Victoria. They probably would have been better off if they had kept him, considering recent history.
@@robinlillian9471 Perhaps so, but the tsar was not a grandson of Queen Victoria. His wife, Empress Alexandra, was the granddaughter of Queen Victoria, however.
These are so interesting thanks so much
Awesome video, thank you.
Interesting & enjoyable with great charting
Re the twist at the end: if the Spencers inherited the claim, wouldn't that mean (via mpp) the current 9th Earl Spencer, Charles Spencer (Lady Diana's brother) is the extant claimant?
No. They are descended from a few females, so it would not pass to them.
Great to see another British monarchy video!
Fascinating thank you from UK
Loved this video! So concise.
So what you’re saying is if a British soldier and a Bavarian soldier fought against each other in WW1 that it was just another Jacobite War? 😂
Well, not really, after Cardinal Henry's death, the Jacobite heirs didn't take up their claim to the British throne, some outright rejected it
The problem with an alternative line of succession is that if the line continued through James, the marriages would be very different from being real royals in power than being in exile. So that means there would be other offsprings and a completely new tree of royals that would succeed James
And the other problem is that the Jacobite line is illegitimate so this entire video is only a fun thought experiment
Obviously since we are talking about fiction here. No one can predict real alternative timelines. xD
Obviously. Everyone knows this. But there are two reason to do it anyway.
1. It's fun.
2. If there were some calamity to throw the royal line into disarray, these are exactly the kinds of discussions that would be going on to figure out who to put on the throne. Like George I. He wasn't next in line but he was the highest in line that the people with power could tolerate
@@TheAutisticBrony They aren't illegitimate. James just got deposed for converting to Catholicism. That has nothing to do with being a legitimate descendant.
@@wingracer1614 It would have to be some big calamity. Charles has two sons and three or four grandchildren. This is not even including his siblings and any children of theirs. The Hanover/Windsor line is pretty well established.
Very interesting AND informative!
Awesome video. Well done.
So what you're saying is, if they end up going with the Jacobite line again one day, the king would be a foreign German prince who may speak very little English? What a long way to go around for the same result :p
Yeah in fact they are of the same royal house, Sophia, Electress of Hanover (mother of George I) is descended from the House of Wittelsbach which is the same house belonged to current Jacobite claimant.
@@EAlyahya Also connected in the other direction: since 1875 the Jacobite pretenders have been descendants of Sophia of Hanover.
Not really because Prince Josef of Lichtenstein was born in London, schooled in Worcestershire and interned in America. I suspect he speaks far better English than you do.
@@wingracer1614 He's not the current pretender. We should assume Mr. Accardi was talking about Franz.
@@thomasburke9060 True but the people in front of him are either elderly, lack heirs or have some other issue. Obviously this is all just fantasy but if there were some sort of major succession crisis today that made this line a serious contender for the throne, I suspect they would just go straight to Josef.
Thank you!!! So very cool!!! Love all your podcasts! I have Ancestry to almost all of the Royals in Europe. Princess Diana & I have 2 separate connections. We share the same 26th great grandmother, as does George Washington his 19th. Plus all my Scandinavian Royal blood and Vikings and Russian. I have always loved History. This just makes it so much more fun and real.
I'm moving soon and will purchase most of your charts and laminate them and add them to my timeline charts and my massive family tree. I'm preparing one long hall way with these on both walls. Great teaching tools for great grand kids and others and I get to Geek out too!!! Looking forward to new podcasts
Tolles Video! Unglaublich interessant! :)
So interesting thank you!
Would love to see you do a video which explains the wars of the roses. How each made their claim to the throne.
I swear there alreasy is one because that's HOW I learned about the War of the Roses, but I can't seem to find it offhand.
It's discussed a fair amount in the background to the video on "Britain's Real Monarch".
You neglected to say that James II's illegitimate daughter Henrietta FitzJames was Arabella Churchill's daughter, the Duke of Marlbourough's (John Churchill's) sister. These Churchill's merged with the Spencer line also which makes Prince William even more of a Stuart and Norman. He's got it all! Thanks Matt!
Very interesting video!!
Amazing! What a great story!
Interesting enough, Diana is descended from King Charles II as well, through another illegitimate child.
I seem to recall that during Napoleon's invasion of Italy, Cardinal Henry and George III came to an understanding, where Henry sent various royal regalia passed down to him to George and acknowledged him (at long last) to be king, and George in return established a badly needed pension for him. Which means that besides being descended from Charles II and James II, Prince William is the claimant to the throne. Well, HUH.
Almost like that’s what she was there for..
Would love to see a video going through the British line of succession as far down as possible
There are about 5753 in line According to the 2011 succession list. That list includes the non protestants though who would actually be omitted. There could be more or less now since people have been born and people have died since then.
The last one is Karin Vogel.
Omitting the non protestants she would be about 4972nd or 4973rd in line (according to wikidata).
Fascinating ~
It really is an elaborate game of musical chairs - love the conclusion of this one, which almost feels like a resolution ... or another rebellion in the making.
Brilliant . William will make a great King. I love the history, absolutely amazing.
This new format is very good! I like the border around each persons portrait.
Fascinating!
What a great video!
Fabulous explanation. None of it really matters, as what really decides who is monarch of the UK is Parliament. Parliament gave the blessing (in fact parliamentary grandees were party to the deal) to William & Mary, and to George. Parliament is sovereign. They went to war with Charles I to settle the argument, and got William to accept their role as the price for his accession. Without Parliament there's no tax, and without tax there's no army and navy, and without those, it's a bunfight between tribes for the throne. Obviously Scotland was brought into this regime in 1707.
Besides which, claims of legitimacy through primogeniture had been set aside several times before the 17th century in both England and Scotland. Might being the ultimate 'proof' of 'right' to the throne, albeit with varying degrees of 'legal' cover, right the way back to 1066 and before.
It would be funny if, when Joseph becomes hereditary prince of Liechtenstein, he started making noises about his Jacobite claim. He could do it in a humorous way. Although I understand the Scots are not happy about being dragged out of the EU by the English, and if another referendum were to take place, the Scots would have a ready-made monarch to step in...it's not like Britain doesn't have a history of German-speaking monarchs. An interesting tidbit is that he was born in London.
Joseph's destiny is to be moanrch of Liechtenstein, but if Scotland did decide to restore the Stuarts it would probably be one of his siblings who would be offered the throne.
Excellent stuff.
Mindblown. It all goes full circle in the end
For anyone wondering about the religion of that illegitimate Jacobite line, the son of Henrietta FitzJames, James Waldegrave, converted to Anglicanism some time around 1720.
these charts are so cool
Just found out some of these wild folks are my ancestors and I'm just losing it over these. Thank you for the fun videos!
The monarch of the United Kingdom is whomever Parliament says it is unless the day comes when Parliament and people decide the country will no longer have a monarch. All other discussions about alternative candidates are purely academic. This especially includes the purported Plantagenet descendant living in Australia. But I would think that Prince William of Wales being a direct descendant of Charles I probably comes closest to resolving all the competing claims of the Jacobites even if he is descended from an illegitimate Stuart line. It is probably the best resolution the Jacobites can ever hope to get. British history will move on through time no matter who sits on the throne.