I especially loved how aggressive he was with every single sentence he said towards his exposers. It really adds to the whole experience of that video.
@ScimaGD prepare to laugh at this extremely funny response. fuck shit piss ass damn. I would like to credit smosh for introducing me to the wonderful world of swearing, and my father for publicly showing the many different ways it can be used
7/23/23 Tosh is OFFICIALLY proven guilty due to found particles popping up in certain places, meaning that he used blue pads to auto some parts of the level. This justifies npesta’s theory that 54 blue pads were used in the level, also justifying the mystery of the devil vortex saws, which was so the level would have the same amount of objects as the original version. I had actually theorized that the level was macroed after the completion to remove some blue pads (I had theorized that it was 14 oddly enough using some terrible math). Tosh has FINALLY been banned from the demon list, and Mycrafted is officially the verifier of devil vortex. I think his video is now the official verification video for devil vortex, too.
5:41 he probably copied those 3 sawblades at the top and started copypasting them downwards. You can see the same pattern of big, medium, and small sawblades the more you go down
probabl put them in custon obj, and spammed them with swipe option. Then, with the precision of a surgeon's scalpel, copypasted them to create exactly 54 saws at the top.
8:16 It's worth noting that Toshdeluxe was known to do this kind of consistent wave spamming back in those days. He did this A LOT. Not just devil vortex, but on a lot of levels.
moral of the story: dont play on low detail mode but tbh... that drama was like the funniest sh*t ever. and well... we shall never know what actually happened
I like how the main reason this controversy got so big in the first place was solely because the saws were placed funny. if tosh wanted to cover up auto with the object count, then he could’ve already done that easily with the unused boss fight stored above the level (like adding more glow to the laser attack or something). Using the saws like this would’ve been the most bizarre way of doing it. I really do think the saws mean nothing, and that he just copy pasted them on accident when he was fixing something in the level. It’s kind of funny how such a small thing can lead to something so drastic.
5:36 That blew my MIND. No one's ever pointed out those three saws before, and now for the first time I could make sense of the Devil Vortex saws. I think those three saws _were a custom object,_ and after Tosh went back into the level, he dragged them across the top at 75%, and deleted extra saws until he got 54 objects. That's why it looks so bizarre!
@@idiot9063 well accusations are that there are somehow perfectly 54 objects in those saws. And npesta's math (obviously full of flaws and assumptions) say that there are 54 auto-pads in the hardest parts of the level
@@cmnx3083 why is the number aligning significant at all? Why is adding another 54 objects proof of anything? Genuine question, this has literally confused me ever since the controversy happened
The hardest thing about this situation is it was streamed with audible clicks. The audio is replaced in the video supposedly for "higher quality" which does make sense as an excuse for the time because at the time there were those GD vids with like 6 background sounds and terrible audio quality. The thing that makes it hard to solve is nobody archived the stream so there is no way to check the raw footage's content. Also there's the fact that he was in a VC with RedHuseey who was making a lot of background noise such as typing which would make his reasoning even more logical. I do think he hacked it but the only person who truly knows is ToshDeluxe
you forgot to talk about the saws. so basically he had 54 jump pads invisible and the level'd go from like 8000 to 8054. when he publishes, he can't leave that part auto, so he fulfills the 54 objects with saws.
The saw blades is obviously Tosh having the three saws selected and then accidentally placing them while trying to move to another part in the editor thanks to swipe mode being enabled. If you've ever built a level you've had this happen at least once and its annoying Devil Vortex is also bugged on 60 but not 144. This is why weoweoteo (another person who made an exposing vid on Tosh) was 'certain' that Tosh hacked the level because hes a 60hz player. This was before it was widely known that GD's physics change depending on your fps The whole situation is a clusterfuck cuz the accusations at the time were as bad as his response
that would make sense, if it wasnt a. at the very top of the level, b. there weren't solid blocks at the exact same location as the saw and c. different kinds of saws
People knew about the physics changing between 60hz and 144hz well before this scandal. A lot of top players switched to 144hz or above by then because of it, hence why it was so odd to see a 60hz player verify a top 5 extreme demon.
why would he not just undo the placement of accidental saws tho? moving them above the level all in one weird group seems like a hell of a lot more work than just deleting them
That 60z bug can actually be avoided if you use Low Detail Mode in the Help section. I know this because I used to play on 60hz, and one part was bugged without LDM, but with LDM I could get past it easily. That likely means that LDM messes with the hitboxes, so that could possibly explain the usage of LDM.
One other thing is the saws add up to 54 objects and each set of saws is 6 objects. 54 is divisible by 6 and 54/6 is 9 so he could've just placed 9 different sets of saws above the level and claimed "He didn't wanna go all the way back to 75 to get them" and it would've made sense
Oh and another important point: Tosh didn’t spend a lot of attempts on Devil Vortex compared to the other verifiers in levels of similar difficulty. Tosh spent less than 10,000 attempts. For comparison, Sunix spent 35,000 attempts on Sonic Wave, Trusta spent 50,000 attempts on Yatagarasu and BoldStep spent 44,000 attempts on Erebus.
For anyone wondering why low FPS allows for easy consistent spam, it’s because no matter where you click in a frame, the player movement will always (assuming that there’s no lag) happen at the same time: the start of the next frame. If I’m at 10FPS, clicking 10, 10.1, 10.2, and so on, seconds through a level will always have the player move at eleven seconds through, at exactly the same point. It’s like framerules from the original super Mario, and the bus stop analogy. Arriving at the bus stop is you clicking, and the bus driving is the player moving; no matter when you arrive at the bus stop between two busses exiting, you’ll always leave at the same time.
Tosh could’ve atleast hid the saws with a alpha trigger, or could’ve added extra deco that added up to 54 objects. There was a lot of stuff you could’ve done instead of just hiding the saws up there and hoping nobody sees it
It's funny because tosh also added 45 objects above his version of unnerfed paracosm circles and unlike devil vortex they weren't custom objects of any kind. 45 objects is enough to auto most of the last wave in unnerfed paracosm circles which is the hardest part and just like with devil vortex he did not show himself uploading the level in his video.
I grew up watching Tosh Deluxe, and this controversy always mystified me. Especially back then, younger me was like "theres no way my favorite youtuber is a hacker". Even after it died out, it still confused me. Anyways, thanks for solving this mystery. Now I know the truth.
It's funny that he says "You could argue that whoever beat devil vortex first after Tosh is the true verifier" when that is exactly what happened to Doggie with slaughterhouse after SpaceUK was exposed.
This is my 2nd favourite controversy when i was really into the game, everyone knew tosh wasn't good enough to beat DV, but yet, nearly 6 years later, we still don't 100% have confirmation on how he hacked it. It's very likely auto, but only tosh really knows. My favourite verification controversy happened at a similar time with betrayal of fate by weo. No one talks about this anymore, but weo never had a verification video for it, however, weo was and still is highly respected. Is BoF hack verified? Thats a question that still lingers in my mind because there's never been any concrete evidence on either side.
This was an amazing controversy to see happen. I think my favorite has to be the noctafly shit tho, that was quite literally a 1v25 situation that was absolutely insane
Wasn't Weo's BoF verification confirmed to be with a secret way? I could have sworn that was the outcome of the controversy at the time. I'm pretty sure he admitted it himself as well. Regardless, I don't think anyone holds it against him and for good reason. He never wanted to be a good player and he never tried to get recognition for being a good player. He just wanted to make a hard level and put it out there, but at the time (early 2.0) it was still very rare to have the creator and the verifier be completely separate unlike now. That's why I think he hacked it.
Hello! I have a few inquiries: When testing the consistency of the wave movements on higher and lower hertz, there was for some reason the choice to do it with the normal-sized wave, despite that the macro-accusation was made against ToshDeluxe's mini-wave movements. It may have made little difference, but I thought it would have been more accurate to try and recreate it as closely as possible. Additionally, it would have been preferable to use 120 hertz rather than 240 to more closely resemble the prerequisites behind Tosh's verification attempt. Other than that, this video was very well done!
Trying to perfectly recreate tosh's gameplay wasn't the point. The point was to show that spam is more consistent on lower fps, and showing that tosh is an idiot.
@@tkienjoyer I'm aware of that - however, I think it would have strengthened the main point to make the test as definite and conclusive as possible - especially considering that it is the main piece of evidence supporting the very decisive conclusion made at the end of the video. This is not meant to invalidate the analysis, but rather to remove any doubt of illegitimacy. Nonetheless, the overall research was very impressive!
@@legendavid993 I feel it a bit unnecessary to post this comment as saying tosh was legit is idiocy regardless, but maybe that's just me. That's the main reason I posted the original reply
I remember when this went down, with the sawblades and microclicks and everything. The most confusing part about it to me is why the sawblades became a huge community meme years after any of the drama was relevant.
Great video! i was confused about the memes where there would just be the Devil Vortex saws placed at the end. it really cleared things up for me and i understand the scandal now. Thanks!
another thing i thought was interesting: at 98%, after he passed the last wave, he does 13 frame perfect wave inputs in a row, which is next to impossible on high refresh rates, especially at high cps. its like this guy was trying to get caught lol
@@zcode9343 I watched both the videos and didn't see, you must be seeing things. Do you mean the one he did on stream 5 years ago or the rebeat with the purple skin?
@@zcode9343 Yeah, I kinda sorta found it and while the part at 54% looks sus, the one at 98% is actually human made. I checked the pixels and the pattern of the pixels wasn't the same for all (0, 1, 1, 0 , 1 distance). It still feels really weird to call out stuff that happened so long ago. People either really hate him and like to bring stuff back or either found out about it recently. I'm not too deep into GD community, but I know there have been multiple incidents where famous players hacked or did naughty-naughty.
what annoys me about this is that everyone gets hung up on whether or not tosh's defense about the saws makes sense or not, but he doesn't have to prove his innocence, they need to prove his guilt, and no one has made a thorough exposing that shows concrete proof as they have done with other hackers. i don't understand if they could expose noctafly or even Bo, why can't they expose tosh if he really hacked
I've learnt a Very valuable lesson from this video alone. Never put anything suspicious on something before its too late. You're gonna have some questioning later. Answer it wrong and you're dead for.
5:30 actually, I have this bug for me in the editor, when I drag something it copies itself everywhere into a mess similar to that. Stacking hundreds into the same grid space
about the wave thing with the fps: of course you are more consistant at lower fps with it. to get this pixel perfect alignment you need to basically do it frame perfect, and well the less frames you have per second the more time you have per frame to hit it so it's easier
11:41 hey look it’s me :) Great video though, I remember when this was “verified” back in the day and all the controversies that followed, from some stuff with noctafly to the npesta situation. It’s nice to see this being brought back up with even more evidence to support the verification not being legit lol
I love how you actually used gd as an example to provide facts and evidence to prove and justify your points. Absolulety loved this video, it was awesome :D
What I find super interesting as well is that the thing you pointed out (Being the 3 Saw allignment) is that the whole structure is just that assignment copied over a bunch of time
Tosh copy pasting saws is such a dumb method of trying to manipulate the obj count. You can literally think of a better way of manipulating the obj count and make it unnoticeable at the same time in just 5 seconds of thinking. This is what I would've done: Devil Vortex is full of black objects, specifically black cubes. If you copy+paste a black cube on top of itself you can't literally tell if it's done so. The only way of finding out if it's by pure chance you select one of the objects I randomly copied on top of itself AND moved it. With the insane amounts of black cubes there's in devil Vortex it would be almost impossible to even find one of them, assume there's more of those and find the exact same amount of objects I copied+pasted on top of themselves. Copy pasting those saws was literally a red flag.
He also could've added some invisible blocks (im pretty sure those are a thing, haven't played in a while) at the bottom of the map or inside the blocks in the layout and people probably wouldn't notice (i don't think they pop up without selection on the level editor)
Really good video analyzing an old hacked completion, which makes it very clear to the audience on why it must be hacked. I think this would be a great resource for modern players who weren't around when this all happened. I'd like to see more videos like this that teach the community hack detection methods, because it's really fascinating stuff.
5:35 if you look closely you’ll notice the entire mess of sawblades is just that pattern of 3 sawblades copy and pasted. Not sure if that changes anything but it’s something to note
5:35 I also noticed that that pattern is copied very messily throughout the sawblades. They seem to be copy pasted all the way down which is weird and I have no idea what to do with this info
I was in the server of the initial devil vortex exposure video. I didn’t contribute basically anything, but I found it amusing to see this drama unfolding before everyone else. I think the shared experience was that something is incredibly fishy about the video, and we had some ideas about what but nothing definitive. As soon as the level came out, we knew the level was horribly unbalanced (especially with the pixel perfect click at the end) similarly to Athanatos which was also hacked on verification. I think the point of the video was more to raise questions towards the legitimacy of the video and hope he admitted to it.
this is my favourite gd controversy, this is the only one i remember about a "hacked" verification that still has no answer in 2023, I had forgotten all this drama of its time until now, it is very interesting. underrated content
Tosh did hack it. But Npesta also had no right to call him out because even he admitted it, his evidence was very weak and speculative. So npesta basically had a hunch and decided to go through with it anyway without 100% proof. Keep in mind that when npesta uploaded his video, the screenshot of the perfect wave alignment was not yet shared. There are no heroes in this story, but nonetheless npesta should've never uploaded an exposal based on speculation which makes me honestly cheer for tosh more in this situation.
The perfect wave alignment isn’t proof of cheating though. Tosh was very well known for being able to spam that consistently back in the day. He did it in many levels. Truth be told, Tosh was a dick. But as a result everyone hated this guy and wanted a reason to prove he cheated
Hey! I really liked this video, but what i'm wondering, is what texture pack you're using. It looks really cool, and purple is my favourite color, so i wanted to ask what texture pack you were using.
with this video as my only form of context, I don't think he hacked it. I feel like everyone's just not being smart enough about this. My main problem is with the saws. It was pointed out that each saw was used to copy and paste into the level, but I don't think that was what was happening. I think he saved the three saws, big, medium, and small sizes, as a custom object. What I think happened was that he selected the three saw custom object, and had swipe enabled, so he tried dragging across the screen but placed the custom object multiple times instead. You can see the pattern of the saws going large, medium, and small throughout the "mess." You can also notice that the saws all the way at the bottom of the mess had the sizes of the squares inside of the saws decrease in descending order, implying that the three saws were originally there. I think he also had free move enabled, and he dragged the squares outside of the saws, or even at least wanted to see what the saws would look like not filled in, and after all of that, I don't think he was bothered to remove them. Overall, I still don't understand how this proves he used jump pads to make parts invisible auto. Yeah, there would've been 54 pads and there's 54 objects in those saws, but how do those correlate? It's just a coincidence. If it wasn't, why would he try to hide some sort of subliminal messaging that he hacked the level inside of the level? Also, 54 is divisible by 6, which is the amount of objects it would take to make 3 saws.
There are some things about this I feel seem wrong. For one, the 54 saws and pads do correlate. If there are 8000 objects in the level (example amount), and 54 pads are added, the level would have 8054 objects. Tosh showed the object count of the level after he verified it, so people would know the level has 8054 objects. So after he stopped recording, he deleted the auto pads, and added 54 objects of saws so the object count would still be at 8054. 2. You say 54 is divisible by 6, which is the amount of objects it takes to make 3 saws. That is correct, but what does that prove? If you wrote that because it's not 54 saws, but 27 saws and 27 black blocks... that still proves the point that 54 objects were added. 3. Tosh dragging the blocks out of the saws to see what they would look like doesn't make sense. You have to place One. Object. To see what it would look like. Why would that be important? Feel free to explain your points.
You're absolutely correct on the first point, so I won't go over that. For your 2nd point, I was trying to prove that he had a custom object with the 3 saws, and had swipe enabled and accidentally dragged them out, but didn't care enough to delete them. You can somewhat see a pattern in the mess of saws being bigger on the left side and smaller on the right. For your 3rd point, since he had accidentally swiped the custom objects across, he thought that he might as well have just used what was there rather than deleting it. Tbh I kinda want to "remake" what happened to show what I'm thinking visually.
you said at the beginning of the video how the saws add up to 54, and npesta said it takes 54 jump pads or so to make the level auto. i think he did this because he showed the object count at the end of the video and didnt want there to be 54 objects less when the level was actually uploaded.
the thing is maybe for the saws, he probably had 3 perfect saws and was playing around with the saws spamming at 75% maybe to see fi they were good enough for the levels, and maybe he didnt know about the save feature on editor however, the buffed version he tried to verify was hacked
To this day I just don’t understand why Tosh didn’t disguise those 54 objects better. The saws make it so obvious. If it was just an extra row of black blocks at the top or bottom of the level area he would have never been caught.
this is a good video, but i do wanna be a bit of a nerd emoji and mention one tiny thing 10:45 when you say the demon list still has toshdeluxe's video as the verification, that doesnt necessarily mean they believe it was legit. xander's video of zodiac is also the verification and xander even admitted it's hacked. though, it does also say "verified by -" which is different from what devil vortex has
The Devil Vortex saws are (I'm pretty sure) rotating at different speeds, but even then it STILL wouldn't make sense because he could just change the custom rotation speed as he was placing them.
something i'd like to comment about the custom object proposition is that it's very easy to get to the 100 custom object limit with other things you may not want to delete to add a new one, i'm not sure if a bypass was available at the time
4:50 well saving it as a custom object means when you place it some objects won't center onto the grid like a normal object, but it does with the sawblades so it doesn't explain anything.
It's crazy i remember long time ago when this was verified and I swear back then he was ass at the game then I saw his verification outta nowhere and was like "damn, aight guess he hacked it." I think everyone thought that back then but no one cared, idk though I don't really remember. It's funny to saw that the first victor could be the real verifier cause that's what I think about zodiac, I always think it was tech who verified it and forget that xander hacked it originally. Cool video.
i hope that it wasn't cheated only because it'd be really funny if toshdeluxe was bored and decided to just copypaste the saws and sometimes took the wrong ones and that just sparks this forever-ongoing controversy
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how this is the only hacking controversy that doesn’t actually have a definitive conclusion
When this controversy started I was 10 fucking years old
Even if he did hack Devil Vortex, he still inspired other people to beat it legit like Cyclic
I guess the reason is because no one really actually cares lol
correct me politely if I wrong :)
Cyclic?
@@HJfod yea the person who hacked cataclysmic inspired other people to beat it
Hacked verification levels are probably the most interesting part of GD's history
Agreed
Yeah
hacking levels is the one way to success 😎
Should have hacked villain virus to kept that going
Especially since after hacked verifications are done, people often beat those levels anyways
I especially loved how aggressive he was with every single sentence he said towards his exposers. It really adds to the whole experience of that video.
@ScimaGD lemme also
@ScimaGD this is the most fucking repetitive reply possible upon youtube
@ScimaGD youtube is for teens which means that they can swear
@ScimaGD prepare to laugh at this extremely funny response. fuck shit piss ass damn. I would like to credit smosh for introducing me to the wonderful world of swearing, and my father for publicly showing the many different ways it can be used
Tosh left on caps lock
7/23/23 Tosh is OFFICIALLY proven guilty due to found particles popping up in certain places, meaning that he used blue pads to auto some parts of the level. This justifies npesta’s theory that 54 blue pads were used in the level, also justifying the mystery of the devil vortex saws, which was so the level would have the same amount of objects as the original version. I had actually theorized that the level was macroed after the completion to remove some blue pads (I had theorized that it was 14 oddly enough using some terrible math). Tosh has FINALLY been banned from the demon list, and Mycrafted is officially the verifier of devil vortex. I think his video is now the official verification video for devil vortex, too.
oh nice
neay
question, why did he bother with the saws? why not just copy paste some objects? why leave himself exposed?
@@rhaws2683 who knows? maybe he wanted the community to find out? Maybe he wanted it to happen?
@@LuigiPres1attention?
5:41 he probably copied those 3 sawblades at the top and started copypasting them downwards. You can see the same pattern of big, medium, and small sawblades the more you go down
yea it would have been a better argument to say "I was literally just bored and copypasted them" than what he said
that was exactly what i thought! it also explains why a bunch of saws are also stacked on eachother since its just copypasted
I was wondering when someone would mention that
probabl put them in custon obj, and spammed them with swipe option. Then, with the precision of a surgeon's scalpel, copypasted them to create exactly 54 saws at the top.
Yes i just noticed that too
8:16 It's worth noting that Toshdeluxe was known to do this kind of consistent wave spamming back in those days. He did this A LOT. Not just devil vortex, but on a lot of levels.
Lmao and now spam players do stuff like that for 10 seconds or more
@@cubycube9924 yes on 60 hz or lower usually
@@dreamsdicc1817 nah nowadays it's fairly common on higher fps
@@zealotgamez7796 im talking about 2 hand spam challenges unless thats a thing too
@@dreamsdicc1817 as in 2 hands on keyboard? Yah that's a thing too
moral of the story: dont play on low detail mode
but tbh... that drama was like the funniest sh*t ever. and well... we shall never know what actually happened
My game lags less on ldm lmao
@@Kaika433of course that's the point of ldm
@@miniiore yeah but this dude said that the moral of the story is to not use ldm
@@Kaika433 it was a joke
@@Outlawchief-cq4xy i know
I like how the main reason this controversy got so big in the first place was solely because the saws were placed funny. if tosh wanted to cover up auto with the object count, then he could’ve already done that easily with the unused boss fight stored above the level (like adding more glow to the laser attack or something). Using the saws like this would’ve been the most bizarre way of doing it. I really do think the saws mean nothing, and that he just copy pasted them on accident when he was fixing something in the level. It’s kind of funny how such a small thing can lead to something so drastic.
this didn’t age well. he recently got exposed with irrefutable proofs
@@inikewwdym? They weren’t denying that tosh was cheating
@@SunGodAtomes they said they didnt think tosh cheated
@@inikew oh shi i misread
@@SunGodAtomes dw u good
5:36 That blew my MIND. No one's ever pointed out those three saws before, and now for the first time I could make sense of the Devil Vortex saws.
I think those three saws _were a custom object,_ and after Tosh went back into the level, he dragged them across the top at 75%, and deleted extra saws until he got 54 objects. That's why it looks so bizarre!
I don't get it. What's so special about these saws
@@idiot9063 well accusations are that there are somehow perfectly 54 objects in those saws. And npesta's math (obviously full of flaws and assumptions) say that there are 54 auto-pads in the hardest parts of the level
@@cmnx3083 what does that have to do with anything
*Devil Vortex Saw Blades is still funny*
@@cmnx3083 why is the number aligning significant at all? Why is adding another 54 objects proof of anything? Genuine question, this has literally confused me ever since the controversy happened
At least Josh Deluxe gave us a funni haha meme.
The hardest thing about this situation is it was streamed with audible clicks. The audio is replaced in the video supposedly for "higher quality" which does make sense as an excuse for the time because at the time there were those GD vids with like 6 background sounds and terrible audio quality. The thing that makes it hard to solve is nobody archived the stream so there is no way to check the raw footage's content. Also there's the fact that he was in a VC with RedHuseey who was making a lot of background noise such as typing which would make his reasoning even more logical. I do think he hacked it but the only person who truly knows is ToshDeluxe
he recently got exposed with irrefutable proofs
you forgot to talk about the saws. so basically he had 54 jump pads invisible and the level'd go from like 8000 to 8054. when he publishes, he can't leave that part auto, so he fulfills the 54 objects with saws.
thx for the heart
@@stysan nis hearts every comment
The saw blades is obviously Tosh having the three saws selected and then accidentally placing them while trying to move to another part in the editor thanks to swipe mode being enabled. If you've ever built a level you've had this happen at least once and its annoying
Devil Vortex is also bugged on 60 but not 144. This is why weoweoteo (another person who made an exposing vid on Tosh) was 'certain' that Tosh hacked the level because hes a 60hz player. This was before it was widely known that GD's physics change depending on your fps
The whole situation is a clusterfuck cuz the accusations at the time were as bad as his response
that would make sense, if it wasnt a. at the very top of the level, b. there weren't solid blocks at the exact same location as the saw and c. different kinds of saws
People knew about the physics changing between 60hz and 144hz well before this scandal. A lot of top players switched to 144hz or above by then because of it, hence why it was so odd to see a 60hz player verify a top 5 extreme demon.
why would he not just undo the placement of accidental saws tho?
moving them above the level all in one weird group seems like a hell of a lot more work than just deleting them
@@morgboat744 and also if this did happen why would he say they were just used for copying
That 60z bug can actually be avoided if you use Low Detail Mode in the Help section. I know this because I used to play on 60hz, and one part was bugged without LDM, but with LDM I could get past it easily. That likely means that LDM messes with the hitboxes, so that could possibly explain the usage of LDM.
One other thing is the saws add up to 54 objects and each set of saws is 6 objects. 54 is divisible by 6 and 54/6 is 9 so he could've just placed 9 different sets of saws above the level and claimed "He didn't wanna go all the way back to 75 to get them" and it would've made sense
Oh and another important point: Tosh didn’t spend a lot of attempts on Devil Vortex compared to the other verifiers in levels of similar difficulty. Tosh spent less than 10,000 attempts. For comparison, Sunix spent 35,000 attempts on Sonic Wave, Trusta spent 50,000 attempts on Yatagarasu and BoldStep spent 44,000 attempts on Erebus.
For anyone wondering why low FPS allows for easy consistent spam, it’s because no matter where you click in a frame, the player movement will always (assuming that there’s no lag) happen at the same time: the start of the next frame. If I’m at 10FPS, clicking 10, 10.1, 10.2, and so on, seconds through a level will always have the player move at eleven seconds through, at exactly the same point. It’s like framerules from the original super Mario, and the bus stop analogy. Arriving at the bus stop is you clicking, and the bus driving is the player moving; no matter when you arrive at the bus stop between two busses exiting, you’ll always leave at the same time.
This is very eloquently put!
Tosh could’ve atleast hid the saws with a alpha trigger, or could’ve added extra deco that added up to 54 objects. There was a lot of stuff you could’ve done instead of just hiding the saws up there and hoping nobody sees it
The saws ARE hidden with an alpha trigger, which makes it even more suspicious
@@mysticaxolotl8215 Oh I didn’t even know that..
It's funny because tosh also added 45 objects above his version of unnerfed paracosm circles and unlike devil vortex they weren't custom objects of any kind. 45 objects is enough to auto most of the last wave in unnerfed paracosm circles which is the hardest part and just like with devil vortex he did not show himself uploading the level in his video.
Question: why would he even copy blades instead of copying blocks within the level? Hence making it harder to detect
I grew up watching Tosh Deluxe, and this controversy always mystified me. Especially back then, younger me was like "theres no way my favorite youtuber is a hacker". Even after it died out, it still confused me. Anyways, thanks for solving this mystery. Now I know the truth.
I kinda dont think he hacks in the way he actually hacks
I also noticed Tosh's completion on Bloodbath where he clearly noclipped, but nobody in the comments even gave a crap about it. Lol.
It's funny that he says "You could argue that whoever beat devil vortex first after Tosh is the true verifier" when that is exactly what happened to Doggie with slaughterhouse after SpaceUK was exposed.
This is my 2nd favourite controversy when i was really into the game, everyone knew tosh wasn't good enough to beat DV, but yet, nearly 6 years later, we still don't 100% have confirmation on how he hacked it. It's very likely auto, but only tosh really knows.
My favourite verification controversy happened at a similar time with betrayal of fate by weo. No one talks about this anymore, but weo never had a verification video for it, however, weo was and still is highly respected. Is BoF hack verified? Thats a question that still lingers in my mind because there's never been any concrete evidence on either side.
Yeah but all the accusations were either "oh but hes bad" or "yeah but the deco!!!!"
This was an amazing controversy to see happen. I think my favorite has to be the noctafly shit tho, that was quite literally a 1v25 situation that was absolutely insane
Wasn't Weo's BoF verification confirmed to be with a secret way? I could have sworn that was the outcome of the controversy at the time. I'm pretty sure he admitted it himself as well.
Regardless, I don't think anyone holds it against him and for good reason. He never wanted to be a good player and he never tried to get recognition for being a good player. He just wanted to make a hard level and put it out there, but at the time (early 2.0) it was still very rare to have the creator and the verifier be completely separate unlike now. That's why I think he hacked it.
We having favourite controversies now?
7:45 the wave makes particles when it hits the ground😳
this aged very well and now we know that toshdeluxe isin't so much of a skilled player.
Hello! I have a few inquiries:
When testing the consistency of the wave movements on higher and lower hertz, there was for some reason the choice to do it with the normal-sized wave, despite that the macro-accusation was made against ToshDeluxe's mini-wave movements. It may have made little difference, but I thought it would have been more accurate to try and recreate it as closely as possible. Additionally, it would have been preferable to use 120 hertz rather than 240 to more closely resemble the prerequisites behind Tosh's verification attempt.
Other than that, this video was very well done!
Trying to perfectly recreate tosh's gameplay wasn't the point. The point was to show that spam is more consistent on lower fps, and showing that tosh is an idiot.
@@tkienjoyer I'm aware of that - however, I think it would have strengthened the main point to make the test as definite and conclusive as possible - especially considering that it is the main piece of evidence supporting the very decisive conclusion made at the end of the video. This is not meant to invalidate the analysis, but rather to remove any doubt of illegitimacy. Nonetheless, the overall research was very impressive!
@@legendavid993 I feel it a bit unnecessary to post this comment as saying tosh was legit is idiocy regardless, but maybe that's just me. That's the main reason I posted the original reply
I can't believe this drama I've seen from the very start has finally come to an end
I remember when this went down, with the sawblades and microclicks and everything. The most confusing part about it to me is why the sawblades became a huge community meme years after any of the drama was relevant.
Great video! i was confused about the memes where there would just be the Devil Vortex saws placed at the end. it really cleared things up for me and i understand the scandal now. Thanks!
another thing i thought was interesting: at 98%, after he passed the last wave, he does 13 frame perfect wave inputs in a row, which is next to impossible on high refresh rates, especially at high cps. its like this guy was trying to get caught lol
no he didnt tf
@@shoeskehigashikata7125 bro watch the freaking video lol
@@zcode9343 I watched both the videos and didn't see, you must be seeing things. Do you mean the one he did on stream 5 years ago or the rebeat with the purple skin?
@@PiniutLEGIT its at the end of his verification for the old version
@@zcode9343 Yeah, I kinda sorta found it and while the part at 54% looks sus, the one at 98% is actually human made. I checked the pixels and the pattern of the pixels wasn't the same for all (0, 1, 1, 0 , 1 distance).
It still feels really weird to call out stuff that happened so long ago. People either really hate him and like to bring stuff back or either found out about it recently.
I'm not too deep into GD community, but I know there have been multiple incidents where famous players hacked or did naughty-naughty.
I never understood the "Devil Vortex Saws" memes, so thanks for this video.
Thank you for giving me a conclusion to this still "unsolved" case
what annoys me about this is that everyone gets hung up on whether or not tosh's defense about the saws makes sense or not, but he doesn't have to prove his innocence, they need to prove his guilt, and no one has made a thorough exposing that shows concrete proof as they have done with other hackers. i don't understand if they could expose noctafly or even Bo, why can't they expose tosh if he really hacked
I think they were placed there to comply with the amount of orbs that were making the level invisible auto, so they had the same object count
Holy moly this is probably the most in depth investigation of a hacked verification I've ever seen.Good work man!
I've learnt a Very valuable lesson from this video alone.
Never put anything suspicious on something before its too late. You're gonna have some questioning later. Answer it wrong and you're dead for.
I didn't know this video is a crime commiting tutorial 💀💀💀
5:30 actually, I have this bug for me in the editor, when I drag something it copies itself everywhere into a mess similar to that. Stacking hundreds into the same grid space
It's swipe mode.
“Hold my beer”- spaceuk
about the wave thing with the fps: of course you are more consistant at lower fps with it. to get this pixel perfect alignment you need to basically do it frame perfect, and well the less frames you have per second the more time you have per frame to hit it so it's easier
While the verifications were undoubtedly hacked, the saws are one of the greatest gd memes, and for that I'm grateful.
I find it hilarious that tosh comes back all of a sudden and we just go back onto him 🤣
The thing is that the set of 3 saws is just below the level at 75, way easier to get than the ones at the top
11:41 hey look it’s me :)
Great video though, I remember when this was “verified” back in the day and all the controversies that followed, from some stuff with noctafly to the npesta situation. It’s nice to see this being brought back up with even more evidence to support the verification not being legit lol
The memes about the saws will never not be funny
This video aged well.
this is my comfort video and idk why
I didn't even know adding custom objects was even possible until I watched this video.
just saw this video now but i have to say its a very interesting topic and good video ur very underrated, keep it up!
I love how you actually used gd as an example to provide facts and evidence to prove and justify your points. Absolulety loved this video, it was awesome :D
11:23 bro still didn't let the sink in
What I find super interesting as well is that the thing you pointed out (Being the 3 Saw allignment) is that the whole structure is just that assignment copied over a bunch of time
amazing video, as always! really cleared up some confusion for me lol
7:25 he sounds like a ai voiceover bruh
Tosh copy pasting saws is such a dumb method of trying to manipulate the obj count.
You can literally think of a better way of manipulating the obj count and make it unnoticeable at the same time in just 5 seconds of thinking.
This is what I would've done:
Devil Vortex is full of black objects, specifically black cubes. If you copy+paste a black cube on top of itself you can't literally tell if it's done so. The only way of finding out if it's by pure chance you select one of the objects I randomly copied on top of itself AND moved it. With the insane amounts of black cubes there's in devil Vortex it would be almost impossible to even find one of them, assume there's more of those and find the exact same amount of objects I copied+pasted on top of themselves.
Copy pasting those saws was literally a red flag.
He also could've added some invisible blocks (im pretty sure those are a thing, haven't played in a while) at the bottom of the map or inside the blocks in the layout and people probably wouldn't notice (i don't think they pop up without selection on the level editor)
8:50 bros argument was literally "NUH UH"
Really good video analyzing an old hacked completion, which makes it very clear to the audience on why it must be hacked. I think this would be a great resource for modern players who weren't around when this all happened. I'd like to see more videos like this that teach the community hack detection methods, because it's really fascinating stuff.
sikky is mad
At 12:14 there is a hitbox right below the ship portal. I can’t tell if tosh actually used auto or if the creator just put it there
Thats in the level
it would way way harder and kinda luck based if that wasnt there, cause going from wave to ship straight fly without any alignment help is super awful
@@xd3athclawx554 you're right
5:35 if you look closely you’ll notice the entire mess of sawblades is just that pattern of 3 sawblades copy and pasted. Not sure if that changes anything but it’s something to note
5:35 I also noticed that that pattern is copied very messily throughout the sawblades. They seem to be copy pasted all the way down which is weird and I have no idea what to do with this info
Glad to see you covering recent and relevant situations!!! 😁
lol
I was in the server of the initial devil vortex exposure video. I didn’t contribute basically anything, but I found it amusing to see this drama unfolding before everyone else.
I think the shared experience was that something is incredibly fishy about the video, and we had some ideas about what but nothing definitive.
As soon as the level came out, we knew the level was horribly unbalanced (especially with the pixel perfect click at the end) similarly to Athanatos which was also hacked on verification.
I think the point of the video was more to raise questions towards the legitimacy of the video and hope he admitted to it.
Recently, The Verification Was Actually Proven TO BE HACKED!
Had to be, the wave did the odd thing.
this is my favourite gd controversy, this is the only one i remember about a "hacked" verification that still has no answer in 2023, I had forgotten all this drama of its time until now, it is very interesting. underrated content
Underrated content 👏👏👏
Tosh did hack it. But Npesta also had no right to call him out because even he admitted it, his evidence was very weak and speculative. So npesta basically had a hunch and decided to go through with it anyway without 100% proof. Keep in mind that when npesta uploaded his video, the screenshot of the perfect wave alignment was not yet shared. There are no heroes in this story, but nonetheless npesta should've never uploaded an exposal based on speculation which makes me honestly cheer for tosh more in this situation.
The perfect wave alignment isn’t proof of cheating though. Tosh was very well known for being able to spam that consistently back in the day. He did it in many levels.
Truth be told, Tosh was a dick. But as a result everyone hated this guy and wanted a reason to prove he cheated
Well…
Hey! I really liked this video, but what i'm wondering, is what texture pack you're using.
It looks really cool, and purple is my favourite color, so i wanted to ask what texture pack you were using.
Very good vid. You gained a sub :)
with this video as my only form of context, I don't think he hacked it. I feel like everyone's just not being smart enough about this. My main problem is with the saws. It was pointed out that each saw was used to copy and paste into the level, but I don't think that was what was happening. I think he saved the three saws, big, medium, and small sizes, as a custom object. What I think happened was that he selected the three saw custom object, and had swipe enabled, so he tried dragging across the screen but placed the custom object multiple times instead. You can see the pattern of the saws going large, medium, and small throughout the "mess." You can also notice that the saws all the way at the bottom of the mess had the sizes of the squares inside of the saws decrease in descending order, implying that the three saws were originally there. I think he also had free move enabled, and he dragged the squares outside of the saws, or even at least wanted to see what the saws would look like not filled in, and after all of that, I don't think he was bothered to remove them. Overall, I still don't understand how this proves he used jump pads to make parts invisible auto. Yeah, there would've been 54 pads and there's 54 objects in those saws, but how do those correlate? It's just a coincidence. If it wasn't, why would he try to hide some sort of subliminal messaging that he hacked the level inside of the level? Also, 54 is divisible by 6, which is the amount of objects it would take to make 3 saws.
There are some things about this I feel seem wrong.
For one, the 54 saws and pads do correlate. If there are 8000 objects in the level (example amount), and 54 pads are added, the level would have 8054 objects. Tosh showed the object count of the level after he verified it, so people would know the level has 8054 objects. So after he stopped recording, he deleted the auto pads, and added 54 objects of saws so the object count would still be at 8054.
2. You say 54 is divisible by 6, which is the amount of objects it takes to make 3 saws. That is correct, but what does that prove? If you wrote that because it's not 54 saws, but 27 saws and 27 black blocks... that still proves the point that 54 objects were added.
3. Tosh dragging the blocks out of the saws to see what they would look like doesn't make sense. You have to place One. Object. To see what it would look like. Why would that be important?
Feel free to explain your points.
@@uwuvix3788 he cannot respond to this good response, good job
You're absolutely correct on the first point, so I won't go over that. For your 2nd point, I was trying to prove that he had a custom object with the 3 saws, and had swipe enabled and accidentally dragged them out, but didn't care enough to delete them. You can somewhat see a pattern in the mess of saws being bigger on the left side and smaller on the right. For your 3rd point, since he had accidentally swiped the custom objects across, he thought that he might as well have just used what was there rather than deleting it. Tbh I kinda want to "remake" what happened to show what I'm thinking visually.
Either way, it doesn't matter because the particles were messed up, which were definite proof that he cheated
you said at the beginning of the video how the saws add up to 54, and npesta said it takes 54 jump pads or so to make the level auto. i think he did this because he showed the object count at the end of the video and didnt want there to be 54 objects less when the level was actually uploaded.
Thanks for explaining this case! I've always thought about this verification.
the thing is
maybe for the saws, he probably had 3 perfect saws and was playing around with the saws spamming at 75% maybe to see fi they were good enough for the levels, and maybe he didnt know about the save feature on editor
however, the buffed version he tried to verify was hacked
Honestly why are people still going at this one level in 2023
We still can't deny the level is beautifull
"Stay outcof my head"
-Sikky
i think its for testing the saws if its nice. the broken lined diagonal pattern reminds me of dragging stuff three sutff in the same line
Annnnnnndddd.. he hacked it..
i want to make a meme where people just put devil vortex saws in all their levels or in the background atleast lol
Holy shit I remember the video when tosh uploaded saying he didn't cheat this level all those years ago that's crazy
i've noticed that all the saws have the same spacing between size. So my idea is that he most likely spammed ctrl, d, and s.
Weren’t the saws used to prove he didn’t cheat the level and go above the top
9:50 is also why the spam list has low fps verifications.
Truly a great video. Love the content
To this day I just don’t understand why Tosh didn’t disguise those 54 objects better. The saws make it so obvious. If it was just an extra row of black blocks at the top or bottom of the level area he would have never been caught.
this is a good video, but i do wanna be a bit of a nerd emoji and mention one tiny thing
10:45 when you say the demon list still has toshdeluxe's video as the verification, that doesnt necessarily mean they believe it was legit. xander's video of zodiac is also the verification and xander even admitted it's hacked. though, it does also say "verified by -" which is different from what devil vortex has
Didn't Tosh Deluxe reverify Devil Vortex?
@@JKBDTS he did and thats why hes on the list still
@@doctoraruly Yea
The Devil Vortex saws are (I'm pretty sure) rotating at different speeds, but even then it STILL wouldn't make sense because he could just change the custom rotation speed as he was placing them.
Super good video so so good keep up the good work man!
i noticed another part where the saw blades are perfectly aligned. Its right under the middle saw blade one you saw earlier
2:19,from the gameplay the ship got down like it was on a slope.
5:34 this is not only at the top, theres also the 3 sized ones next to each other in MANY places in the mess just watch
Thanks for covering this topic as alyways great video.
something i'd like to comment about the custom object proposition is that it's very easy to get to the 100 custom object limit with other things you may not want to delete to add a new one, i'm not sure if a bypass was available at the time
additionally, a lot of the saws look like they were copied and pasted duplicates of the original 3, as they are spaced the same
4:50 well saving it as a custom object means when you place it some objects won't center onto the grid like a normal object, but it does with the sawblades so it doesn't explain anything.
Sometimes when I save an object it does center, It happened with a few custom objects
This mystery finally has an end lol
It's crazy i remember long time ago when this was verified and I swear back then he was ass at the game then I saw his verification outta nowhere and was like "damn, aight guess he hacked it." I think everyone thought that back then but no one cared, idk though I don't really remember. It's funny to saw that the first victor could be the real verifier cause that's what I think about zodiac, I always think it was tech who verified it and forget that xander hacked it originally. Cool video.
Classic Nothingisscary W (great video btw)
2:17 theres litteraly particles of ship standing on invisible blocks
i hope that it wasn't cheated only because it'd be really funny if toshdeluxe was bored and decided to just copypaste the saws and sometimes took the wrong ones and that just sparks this forever-ongoing controversy
finally i get why some meme reviewer kinda gets PTSD when he sees that pattern
The fact is that Nepesta had no proof or idea what he was doing, but tosh responded in a bad way which proofed that he cheated