Introverted Thinking vs Extraverted Thinking
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about the difference between the thinking cognitive functions Introverted Thinking vs Extraverted Thinking.
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This is the first time I've ever heard anybody talk about the judging functions as they actually are. Finally.
Yeah it’s obviously not the first podcast ever on functions and type, but at the same time the way the video touches on each relevant point(as much as it can of course) kinda makes it an iconic podcast for now lol. Maybe even for a long time, cuz I seem to be re watching these like every 6 months or year🎉
If I understood correctly, Te values outer results first, while Ti values inner order (truth). The question is: what makes them value things differently? It feels like they both are rewarded by inner chemistry for different things: one for effectiveness, another for accuracy. Then what determines these things which your inner chemistry rewards you the most: biology or values caused by socialisation? Maybe both...
Anyway, the current conclusion I've made for myself, is develop both. If your values lies in the outer world, then having both you'll be effectiveness machine, as accuracy increases efficiency.
Joel and Antonia, thanks for what you do.
This is soo interesting for me. My boyfriend is an INTP and I recently figured out that I am an INFP even though I tested as ISFP for so long. His dominant introverted thinking function is a complete enigma to me. I am so happy you made this video. Now I can try my best to understand how he thinks, if that is even possible. I bet it would be extremely difficult for me to ever understand just as it would be extremely difficult for him to understand my dominant introverted feeling. I always try to find what it is that makes him laugh the hardest because we have very different senses of humor. But it keeps life more interesting!
Hands down, best explaination of Te I have ever heard.
One of the things for introverted thinking(intp here) is that it makes it very easy to make decision that can be evaluated as correct, however once you are in a realm where that us not clear cut and not a clear way to deduce that there is a problem. The instict is, i need to research this further or experinent and test things out before i know what is right.
If someone asks which is better a or b, the answer is almost always...depends but that is not helpful to the person asking the question.
Another thing that is very difficult with introvertes thinking at least in my experience is how people want confidence for what you are doing and you can seem that way in the things that you "know" but outside if that you will not be able to give that level of confidence, depending on what it is you may have crippling self-doubt. For example i know that in matters of emotional things i almost always assume that i maybe being quite off, as i know that to be a major weakness of mine.
Sorry for the ramblings but basically i wanted to express what i have observed to be weaknesses in this decision making process to make decisions. Have a goid one 😊
Well, clearly all thinking styles have their weaknesses. Now I understand why Introverted thinking types are rarely in executive positions. Your thinking is eloquent and thorough, but a bit too ponderous for A or B decision making so often required in managerial positions.
Self identifying as an INTJ, I love the insights from these nuts and bolts talks.
Coming to this video 3yrs later and at 48:30 found a gem of Ti explanation. 👏 👏 👏
Great explanation of Te vs Ti. Deciding which I use has been one of the sticking points in confirming my personality, since I know I utilize both. After listening to this Podcast, I'm definitely a Te user, compared to my husband who is 100% Ti. The restaurant bit describes ever road trip we've ever taken together. I can't even count how many exits we've casually driven by after I pointed out a restaurant (when he's driving), or the times I took an exit because he pointed something out on the side of the road and I assumed he wanted to stop. 😂🤦
This podcast has been extremely useful, I've gained lots of knowledge and have had many insights about my own self and the people I know most. Thank you very much.
Ti is weighing me down, it delays my decision making process and often i envy my Te friends who's decisive and rational at the same time. However Ti does give a breadth of information or database. TP will thrive in a certain/ideal situation, but TJ will create the situation they want - ENTP
I love what you do!! It's true you cannot please all. We as followers of your work should have a reasonable expectation for what you give and put out. This stuff is so complex to speak on. I am a very weak reader; i prefer listening, so this podcast is perfect for someone like me. I think you guys are doing an extraordinary job with your explanations, and Antonia, i love listening to you talk. You are have such great articulation and mastery in framing these discussions, such that slower learners like myself can absorb this material much more effectively. Keep up with the amazing work that you do; you are touching and changing lives in the best ways. You two are the dream team!!
This is a great comment! I love that you still want to learn even though you have to find a way to make it work for your and the way you learn! I have trouble reading too! You have great will power! And you share my beliefs about Antonia! She is simply the best! They make a great team!
Makes so much sense now why it bothers me so much when people are lazy or irresponsible with information. A lot of people get annoyed when I make a big deal about it but I can’t get past the fact that they can’t see how dangerous that can be. Social media doesn’t help. Great content! Thank you.
I think a great example of extraverted thinking in fiction is Commander Erwin Smith in Attack on Titan if anyone is interested.
Wow, as a TJ hearing “resources going in… resources coming out”, I now know why chemical engineering ended up being easy once a professor said nearly the same thing to explain material and energy balances.
You see this is the problem with Ti vs Te users: I am the only person in my household who uses Ti and I’ll often just say something for the sake of sharing the information and everyone else in my family is like ‘why are you telling me this’ bc they all use Te
INTJ here. I have a INTP bf and I’m trying to understand what his relationship with his thinking and feelings (Ti and Fe) 1st and 4th. Mine being (Te and Fi) 2nd and 3rd. My fear with Ti and Fe is that they have a tendency to take subjective thinking and apply tribe feeling to apply a value. Well, looking to a flawed Fe tribe for a set of values to live by can be extremely faulty and flawed. How do Ti and Fe users make the connection to values that are healthy?
I find that my Te is kind of like crude oil, unrefined but recognizable and trying to organizing it as it is coming into my brain like a conveyor belt and storing it where it needs to go to be retrieved later. Ni then sorts it out to vet that information and create connections and patterns to paint a complete picture on future applications for this information or group of information. My Te then accesses my Fi to put a value or a preference on this information to apply my feelings on this information. I try to re vet that info as new info comes in. But it feels like information overload sometimes.
I find my bf have a mind dump of information. His Ti brings in all the information like crude oil, he then refines the crude oil into all the products that can be made and then he may take the refined information and look it over again until it’s in its purest form.
His strength is maybe a more pure thought and not as many connections and appears non related. But he can contain more info than me. But he takes a very long time to act... and sometimes he still doesn’t act. But I guess that’s not always his goal. Info is just info for him and I have had to practice receiving info from him without the expectation to act. It is kind of refreshing.
For me, I have to receive, organize, and categorize in a slightly shorter amount of time. It then sits there waiting for Ni to interpret and than to Fe to put a value on it. Then it is stamped with my approval and ready to be retrieved as fact or at the very least true enough to be useful.
There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is vetted information and Wisdom is vetted knowledge being applied factually, corrected, in its pure form, but also in the correct context and patterns.
Joel's last comment gives me the impression Ti users would be better in team work situation because they are less likely to hold back information.
Sometimes it seems like the Te process is applied in terms of what would be better described by Sensing processes (concrete, facts, actionable, practical, etc). Similarly, “information gathering” is not Thinking. Thinking acts on information gained by perception - so it is difficult to separate the perception process when describing a judging process. I say this because when someone is trying to determine their type, this can be a tripping point. These descriptions of Te and Ti sound more like STJ and NTP processes, more specifically.
I am an INTJ who uses introverted thinking. Makes you wonder and it is okay to wonder, is it not?
Oh. Yes. As an Istp, listening to that Ti hit home.... I notice when I was younger and a lot more immature, I definitely was using Ti wrong, I always thought I was right and it was hard for me to listen to other people correcting me.... But I've slowly learned that I don't know anything in this world and I have to take in more data and more data to make sense of this world and oh to make a decision . I can come up as indecisive sometimes... When something cannot be made sense of with the data around me, it gives me a very very unsettling feeling.... Some things which Fi-dom would be able to do,like just follow their instincts , its hard for me if there is no data to prove it.
And the fact that data is just data and there's always a room for it in my head, and not all data has to be actionable....that too...very true...
Thank you for your explanation
Changing oil subject: I get oil and filter when doing necessary shopping and change oil myself when it's time and skip the coupon and waiting for Quickly lube do something I can do in less than 30 minutes and went nowhere with no waisted time.
What about those who do both IntrovertedThinking and External Thinking? As a Systems Enginner I do both. In the external world the effectivess is critical. However, the process to be effective is Vital. If what is gathered through the process is not accurate the outcome will be flawed or completely not effective. I do both and can easily switch between the two as well as seeing them and using both of them at the same time. So, this idea that one is either this way or the other does not Always play out.
Well it is either this way or that way. The problem seems to be your understanding of what introverted and extroverted thinking is. Introverted is not understanding the inner mechanics of an engineered system, and extraverted thinking is not understanding how those inner mechanics affect the outside world. That is totally looking at it the wrong way.
Your judging functions are very hidden, it’s hard to identify which one you use. I spent about a year thinking I was an INTJ till I found out I was actually an INTP. The Ti type likes to learn stuff for the sake of learning stuff. They use a universal web of logic and understanding of things that kinda connects all things together. For example, I personally believe you could predict anything in the world happening if you could fully understand everything about the universe at the lowest, most fundamental level. But of course we aren’t close to understanding that as humans yet.
Te types, however like to learn stuff for the sake of effectively getting things done. They don’t care about learning all that much, they just care about using the learned information to achieve goals and stuff.
Another way to look at it, is the Ti type is kinda like the nerd guy at a company who loves to design and create new innovative tech, while the Te type is the CEO is like “ya whatever cool man” and just wants to use that new tech to make more sales or accomplish more goals. Does this make sense? The Thinking in Ti is a very fundamental core value to the Introverted thinker, and the thinking for an extraverted thinker type is simply a tool to achieve their core Fi value (which is usually their goal) they use Te to satisfy their Fi.
Rating of this podcast: 10/10
I am ti for sure. But I am confused if my dominant function is ni or ti
It's the first function of your function stack. What's your mbti type?
I’m intp and now sure that my coworker is a Te, screw that human’s mind.
An INFP here that can't put up with others peoples' Fi yet can't slip out of my own.
My Ti data dumped itself on a personality typing competitor of yours when I realized that he was corrupt data script and had to be surgically removed from my database. Personality Hacker is so much better! Cheers!
I watched this video
Cant these thoughts apply to FJ or FP?
This is great
For INTPs, go directly to 32:00, I know you are lazy :)
I want to see the difference
That would be losing half the data
Bless you. 🙏
@drawing spider, need to judge the validity first.
I'm an ENTJ and writing a book is a little overwhelming... I wish I had a template but even though I would like a template to get it going, I know I would end up diverting so much that there would be no recognizable template by the time I'm done. Right now, I'm just writing notes. Then I'll organize them and try to outline something.
According to you guys descriptions, i have Fi and Ti lol rip me trying to find my type still
We have all 8 functions. It just depends on your preferences to where they are in the stack and how they manifest based on that position. There’s big differences between the two as it is and even more so when you look at differences via stack positioning.
FI and TI are similair functions they just have different rules/values they abide by. FI is focused on morals and good/bad. TI is focused on understanding and true/false.
I took the test on your website and my result came out as INTP. But regardless of the result, I'm still not sure if I'm truly am INTP.
Here's a process that I always go through when getting new information. Maybe this will clear thing up if I'm using Ti. Whenever I read something (which I do constantly every day) new or a new book -- after few days later when I unconsciously organized the new information I gained, I have to write it down coparativlly and connect it with all the previous information that I had in my mind. I have over hundreds of notes in my electronic devices that I have written down over the years, some of the written notes would be written on different day and time and then I have to connect it with the other written notes that I have written in other times. I go through this process every time I gather new information, and it is very frustrating, I don't want to do it, but it feels like a sort of duty to do it. Does this sound like introverted thinking?
An NTJ would only do this in support of an active project, e.g. writing an historical account of an event and the things that contributed towards it.
An INTJ would certainly be interested in relationships of principles but not "data" (e.g. cybernetic principles, or principles of general systems theory).
On a general basis correctness for NTJ is achieved more in the moment, e.g. using good logic, not making typological errors. It is due to their goal oriented-ness that they know what kind of information is relevant to their reasoning context. For me, the most proximate circumstance of memorising data points / information just for the sake of it are as cases to exemplify a principle that may be elusive to recall or to articulate. For NTJs information to a relevant project is, more or less, garnered temporarily and the "stickiness" of that information is contingent upon its relative importance to the goal (note I am not including principles or methods here as "information"). More permanent fact-like information is then realised through the constant need for them (phone numbers, addresses, clothe sizes, conversion rates.) Similarly the schema by which information is obtained is also liable to be a result of repeated project context. However, as an INTJ interested in cognition, I do actively think about schemas, epistemology, and making complex logically coherent thoughts / theories or frameworks.
Sounds like Ti to me. I too keep a neverending, open-ended list of notes that seem disconnected but (hopefully) serve a future purpose. Whenever I learn something new, I will unconsciously deconstruct it and bring pieces of it to my consciousness to further toy with. It either results into a new mental/electronic/physical note (dormant info) or a drawn out research marathon (applicable info) to see how it impacts my livelihood. To me, Introverted Thinking operates like the game Sudoku.
- An INFJ w/Ti
Questions couldn't one argue with the statement of TI with FI " re-evaluating it's own thoughts its own data"(I am paraphrasing). This could be the Same thing for FI... If someone (such as the ENFP) I am constantly re evaluating what Do I morally see valuable. Does this certain aspect value of mine really i care about. Could this change over time? could it change? In an objective level. Theoretically speaking. Love to hear your thoughts are. (Not sure if that made any sense)
... (continuing my thought from prior comment) TI is also using thinking as a means to an end, but the end is truth whereas TE is using thinking for practical end results... I guess it's true that TE can be used for the greater good but if TI is not equally sought, the TE motives can be self-serving, self-deceiving /egocentric and the results can ultimately backfire and be destructive (I'm aTIi so I guess I need to be more aware of the down side of TI as well)... actually being INFJ, using feeling for the greatest good of all and TI 3rd function to seek the truth make me look at TJ with TE and FI as more self-centered... my apologies to TJs, I need to give this more thoughts... I'm really not sure at all it is the truth that certain personalities have bigger egos built in... what is the right thinking here, any thoughts?
So TE is using thinking as a means to an end and TI is truth-seeking?
Doesn't TP work differently depending on if you're I or E?
Nvm, forget J&P point out the primary Extroverted Function.
is it possible for an ENTP be really developed in Te?
just kidding. i’m definitely Ti.
Yeah it’s possible
Navigating this hegemonic Global Corporate Capitalist Empire sure is a b*tch when you have Te trickster. -INFJ
starts at 6:06
Dude pays to get his oil changed.
Shut up, ISTP.
"Those aren't thinkers. Those are sociopaths!" best quote ever! The whole MBTI community has a seriously warped perception of the types because of those bullshit memes.
Cant these thoughts apply to FJ or FP?