Can this $13,000 tool PAY FOR ITSELF?!
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 05. 2024
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Can this $13,000 tool PAY FOR ITSELF?!
âą Can this $13,000 tool ...
I Like To Make Stuff
/ iliketomakestuff - Jak na to + styl
12:52 Someone in your shop should start an Etsy store from scratch selling those book nooks (or whatever) with no links to or from this CZcams channel and no indication at all your Etsy store is connected to a 3.3M+ subscriber CZcams channel, and then keep us updated as it goes. Include marketing techniques you try to draw store traffic and make sales. Keep us updated how long it takes to pay off that machine.
Don't buy that machine if you are only making one design.
April Wilkerson put out a video about a month ago, showing her Etsy journey and selling laser cut products.
@@sk0nz the point is that just having it lets you rapidly prototype and move to mass production (kinda) if it ever comes to that.
Spinning death blades is the best description of a table saw
There's a whole other aspect that you didn't mention. For normal woodworking, you can make templates and router jigs way quicker and more accurately with a laser, then bring them into the woodshop with your more traditional tools and do alot more. It doesn't have to just replace your traditional woodworking, which I think is what turns alot of people off from considering a laser. I've even used it just for layout. Engrave all the lines you want to cut on a piece, especially when it's too thick for the laser to cut, and then cut it with a saw or other tools. This can also be really good for teaching people woodworking as they have nice straight lines to cut to and spots to drill with minimal effort on your part and less risk of mistakes in layout on their part
April Wilkerson is doing a similar series on her channel. She bought a laser and started making things (golf related) to sell in various online marketplaces - Etsy and some others. She's selling without using her name or anything other of her branding and not doing any extra advertising through her other business ventures. She wanted to see just how viable of a business this would be for someone without a million subscribers on CZcams.
She has done a couple updates over the past few months. As of her last update, she still wasn't anywhere close to paying off the cost of the laser.
Just to update this comment: There is a more recent update on her channel now, and she made it back plus some in 4.5 months (not considering other expenses; she calls it a success).
I've wanted a laser for a few projects, but didn't have the space and wasn't willing to buy just for those projects. I worked through our local makerspace to buy a month long membership and got everything cut in that time. This was a nice option for the project without the big cost.
âSell 325 of those book nooks to pay for the laserâ. Prove it. That would be a great video
Yeah haha, selling ANYTHING on Etsy is a pretty awful experience these days. I get what they are trying to say, but going from zero to successful online store is a monumental effort in itself.
Yeah, or just sit there on your phone and troll stuff, youâll make so much you wonât know what to do with it, better to do nothing really.
No sell 500! Get a necklace for free
Math.
â@@iloveveggies7634The makerspace in my town just got a Thunderlaser. I can fabricate my 324 book nooks, make the profit and now buy my own Thunderlaser. Where there is a will there is a way.
Don't forget to consider your venting needs before getting a laser.
Yeah I missed a part in the video about not burning any material and nasty fumes. Should be quite obvious but Iâve seen to many people do to stupid things with lasers to assume that all humans think before turning them onâŠ
Especially with all the cheap open little lasers one can buy nowadays.
This is a straight up infomercial for laser cutters.
... and I agree with every bit of it and enjoyed it thoroughly. đ
specifically the top of the range, if you want to play with a laser you can do it for much less outlay, this is a bit like advising everyone to go buy Festool, whilst ignoring every other brand.
Commercial. It's a commercial.
Iâd throw money at you guys so quickly if you made a course on starting your own business creating things. Iâve got two 3D printers I love using, but not sure how to start a business around them.
One big ad. Sad as this channel was great for a while, now it seems like it's beholden to companies that will "save you time" from doing good videos rather than late night tv commercials.
†love lasers, but donât have the space to dedicate. My âproâ tip would be to join a maker space where they often have multiple high quality lasers, do all the maintenance, and usually have an expert on-site to help with questions. An hourly rate or membership price might be an easier price to swallow for most- even to just test your designs before making the jump to buying a laser
You just need a successful business to get a single tool to have a a successful business
would love to see a followup video that goes through options for venting if you want to have it either in your garage or indoors. Also, would love a video showing a walkthrough of the process of designing something in Fusion 360 and then how that design gets adapted for something like wood assembly like you guys did for the arcade, or the cardboard one would be an awesome walkthrough. I think an all cardboard parts organizer that people could make using all the amazon boxes that pile up would be awesome!
âŠand now I want a laserâŠ
I heard you talking with Jimmy and Dave about this video and I was excited for it. Lots of good knowledge presented here.
I bought a $2,500 60w laser 4 years ago and it's paid for itself many times over. The hardest part is thinking of 'new' things to make that are unique, Etsy is already over saturated with laser made goods and you need something that stands out.
A Laser is absolutely something that is on the list for the shop even before I saw this video. After watching I'm happy to see I was at least in the proper mindset on its value to come and that I wasn't just babbling nonsense to significant other when trying to convince them đ€Ł
I own the Thunder Laser USA 35 100watt and it is amazing.
I cut acrylic that is used in accessories for cnc routers and my wife makes crafts that she sells at local stores and craft fairs. It is a amazing machine and has paid for itself 10x over.
Waiting for Carman Ghia restoration follow up
As am I. I really was looking forward, to a part to follow up, whatever was the most recent part.
If you canât afford a laser, check out your local library! I just found out my library has a maker space with 3D printer, 60w laser, vinyl cutter, etc all FREE to use!
How long until people selling laser crafts turns into people with 3D printer crafts? Where you have a decent margin until everyone that wants one has one and the marketplace is flooded to the point the margins vanish and you just have a low-paying side job.
The margins will only vanish if you lower your prices to "compete" with those who aren't concerned with making a profit (bored soccer moms with a Glowforge, for example). Don't join the "race to the bottom". If you continue to produce high quality items, there will always be people willing to pay a premium price for that quality. I've been making things with my lasers for four years now, and my prices have only increased.
As the machines get cheaper it will follow the same path. Requiring a $10k machine to do something is a much larger barrier to entry than $1500 for a best in class 3d printer.
Lasers running light burn tend do be made mostly of chinese parts. Epilog has a plugin for corel draw and illustrator to run from there. Also made in America.
I currently have a 5W laser engraver and I have a 20W laser engraver/cutter on order. I'm looking forward to finally being able to cut thicker material!
You've definitely given me some things to think about. I have a tiny 5 watt laser and it's pretty much useless. I have only tinkered with it but because of its limitations, I have no desire to learn the software or learn more about it. I thought buying the cheapest tool in this category would inspire me, but in fact, it's done the opposite. Thanks for breaking all the financials down. God bless.
Dudes, post production level went up a notch! Great video!
Me and my wife built a multiple 6 figure business with a 130w laser, we both work in the business full time now and it supports us and 3 kids no problem. Lasers are great!
When I decided to upgrade my shop to start making really cool and detailed stuff, as well as customized things. I opted for a CNC router. And, it did indeed step up my game considerably. But... I wish that I had done more research on all of the things needed to make it work. I didn't have a lot of money to spend, so I got a "middle of the road" CNC. What I realized very quickly, was the cost of the software to design and also to run the programs on my project. You can get "free" versions of some of the software, but they are severely limited. Most of my programs are several 100,000 lines of code. To have this capability, you are required to purchase the full (licensed) version of the software. Long story short; I ended up paying more than double the cost of my machine just for the software to operate it.
I have a 30w diode laser cutter. It is a god sent for making models for my model railroad. When you think about it most building are just an assemble of flat surfaces. So the laser makes scratch building a breeze when it comes to the small scales of model railroading. It has replaced my other 3D printers for building building and is just as fast. Great video Thanks
Extra tip: start with a smaller laser that can still make you money and build your funds to step up to a $13k laser with zero debt. A lot of thins they show in this video can be made with lasers 1/10th the cost.
Do you need a 240v outlet and fume extraction for that beast? Or just a path for an internal fan to exhaust?
Good question. I'd like to know that too. I'm super interested in this when I get the chance
Nope. It runs on 110v.
@@Iliketomakestuff thank you
Just need a 20a dedicated circuit
It's also good to assess the needs of your projects. I bought a SculpFun 10 Watt laser. It can do the things I need, but it's super slow. I also think a cnc would have been better for the projects I had in mind.
To get started learning this stuff, you can also use a regular printer. It's an extremely precise machine, just with a limitation on the material.
You can then glue or tape the piece of paper to cardboard and cut out pieces with a utility/hobby/carpet knife, and see it you made something that works. If you use cardboard, you can also incorporate folding into the design. You can also use MDF or plywood and cut pieces out with hand or power tools. Try making fun shapes, boxes, things to fill a gap, spacers, prototypes. Make cardboard pieces to check if your ideas fit your projects before using up your actual materials.
A drill bit holder is a a relatively simple project idea. Draw circles matching the sizes of drill bits you have, and include a mark in the center for drilling. Then space those out in a way that you think might make sense. You can then use the drill bit *larger* than the one you want to place in the hole, to drill it. Repeat for all holes. You will notice that the holes ended up either too close or too far apart, so you can now refine your project. Add more things to insert and measure their placement in the real world, then transfer them to the digital design. Use a piece of scrap wood, and flip it over when you mess up.
You can also make templates or drill guides using a regular printer. Print out markings on a grid with the correct spacing. I made an 8x8 millimetre grid for myself. Glue/tape the grid to a piece of MDF or plywood, mark the holes and drill through with a small drill bit. You can now use this template to mark holes with 8 mm, 16 mm, 24 mm, 32 mm, etc spacing for any project you are doing, including dowels for furniture.
I added one of the K40 iterations to my holster / sheath shop. I was hesistant and bought it for the wrong reasons - but it turned out to be a great addition.
I use it for jigs and to cut leather pieces for "standardized" items.
Do you know what the depreciation schedule is for one of these? If it is reasonably aggressive, you might not have to sell as much to reach your ROI.
I was honestly thinking a laser like that would be near $40k. How wrong I was!
I you buy a Epilog, Trotec or Universal laser will will spend 40k.
Bob, long time listener, first time caller-
I would LOVE to see more videos like these. Entertaining videos with a âbehind the scenesâ theme would be awesome. I know content like this is sometimes discussed on Making It, but your video audience might be an untapped market that would also appreciate this information.
Great video! It might also be good to compare the technology available today used to automate maker processes, i.e., lasers, 3D printers, and CNCs. When to use what, range of cost, pros and cons, etc.
I have an inexpensive 40w laser. Itâs nice to have. Iâd love to invest in a big one someday
This was all i needed to convince me, been thinking about adding a laser on my diy cnc for a while
Fantastic! Glad we could help.
I am a 68 year old handicapped woman and fell in love with your show long ago but I thought this was so interesting. I always learn a lot. Definitely need a book nook lol I read and collect only real books and have never heard of these! Educated indeed
What do you suggest as a small home business, since I don't have a shop but I would like to start a business using a laser cutting machine? Also what's the noise level for these kind of machines
My x-carve paid for itself in no time... I did exactly what Bob suggested. I knew what I was going to make when it showed up. Sure much smaller scale ($1300 v $13000) but the idea is the same.
I didn't even want to make the things I was selling but I did it till the tool was paid off now I only make what I want... Basically I got a free tool=)
You forgot to mention the giant fume extraction pipe behind you and about how some fume extractors can cost as much or more than the laser itself
Excellent vid; thanks Bob!đđ Iâve just bought the Gweike Cloud RF (no liquid cooling needed; hurrah!) and am loving it. A bigger laser is definitely on the cards for the future.
A bit off topic, but could I ask what belt sander is behind you at 6:00? Thanksđ
Good video. Great information. I have a 20watt laser and also use Light Burn. I have been really impressed with what you can do.
I think you now need a T-shirt that says "Customation: Making it your own"
You forgot the most important thing: lasers are freaking cool! Really great information here. Thanks for sharing!
I had a 60 watt co2 laser, it was fun for a bit but living in the UK the space was more valuable.
Sure. Space is always a major consideration for something of that size.
@@Iliketomakestuff if I had the space I would buy another on though.
@@TheWebstaff Iâm getting on well with the Gweike Cloud RF; work area is 510x300mm, footprint about double that. Could be worth a look?
Like some others have said, I think the two biggest downsides for a lot of people are the size and venting needs. The Thunder laser is cool but it's bigger than my couch and I personally don't have a way to exhaust the fumes in my place. The Glowforge is a nice option for people like me but the price is obscene. So until the tech gets more refined and accessible I'll be sticking to 3D prints and coping saws.
3 important words are also in play - location, location, location... I live far eastern Europe and over here pretty much no one would buy some booknook with 40 bucaroos... and if I would sell them out of my country, then I would have add 25-50 bucks for transportation.... hell freezes over before I get that 13K earned back... yeah it is easier in large country or large place, but not so much if you live rural areas... but overall idea and concept is right...
I'd like to know how much cheaper you could do it if you built the whole thing from scratch yourself. There are open source CNC OS's that you can use on a Raspberry Pi or any SBC, and in fact you could get an Intel NUC for cheaper than a Pi these days and it'll run more complex operations a lot faster. Building the gantry system shouldn't be too difficult and there's many ways to go about it. You could even cast aluminum parts and grind them flat. While such an operation would be painstaking, to say the least, it's possible to cast a long enough gantry in just a few casts and for relatively cheap using recycled aluminum. Let's say you just collect all the soda and beer cans your family produces for an entire year. Essentially free material by that point.
I have the Chinese version of there next size up laser. Still a 130w. All the same parts. Same laser tube. Better controller. And it came with a rotary for engraving glasses. Different metal box. But it was only $6800 shipped to my door. About 10k less then this â American â made machine. Makes it much easier to pay for itself.
What's the name of that one?
I have a 10w xtool and it cuts 3mm wood one pass so Iâm happy enough with that. I bought a k40 to cut clear acrylic with and it was a turd. One day Iâm gonna have the xtool pay for bigger co2 machine.
love my laser and so many applications. had my co2 for 5 years and love it just wish I had the space for a bigger one in my mancave.
Hi Bob I'm on the fence about getting a Laser Cutter, the reason is I'm a woodworker a Scroller where I make jewelry, Christmas Ornaments, and other unique and special items, is using a laser cutter really woodworking, I enjoy cutting on the Scrollsaw and yes I have to stack cut multiple peices of wood to get 4 to 8 items, I like the idea of engraving ( personalizing) family and friends will say that's not woodworking and some say it is, like I said Bob I'm on the fence about a laser cutter thanks
I am less concerned about fitting into some kind of label; woodworker, metalworkers, etc. I want to get the ideas out of my head and into the hands of people who will benefit from them.
A tablesaw is a tool that cuts wood. A bandsaw is a tool that cuts wood. A jigsaw is a tool that cuts wood. A scrollsaw is a tool that cuts wood. Is using any of these tools really woodworking? The answer is Yes. Now consider this: A laser cutter is a tool that cuts wood.
@@matchstickdesignco Except there's a big difference between a person guiding those tools by hand vs laying down a piece of wood and pressing "go".
@@GeekRedux "Just laying down a piece of wood and pressing go"? Is that all it takes? Wow, I feel stupid now. All these years I've been taking so many unnecessary extra steps, like using my brain to come up with designs, then using Adobe Illustrator to turn those designs into a format my laser can understand, and experimenting with different settings like power and speed to get the desired results. Why didn't somebody tell me all I needed to do was "lay down a piece of wood and press go"?
Laying down...press and go....sounds like a temporary tattoo...đ đ€Łđ
OMG!!! Josh without hat!! That's something new....
Good info...space in my work area, as well as the environment, & security are my main hurdles. Fume/dust extraction are an area of limited knowledge as well.
13:05 *If you already have a working knowledge of Fusion 360, Light burn, laser cutters, product design, business, and marketing. If you aren't proficient in those things already it will take significantly longer, and you should have a high frustration tolerance as well as a sufficient alternate income in the meantime.
You make it sound so simple. You guys would kill it selling people on Mary Kay.
- Sincerely, Buzz "living in the real world" Killington đ
13K is what my mom spent on our first house. (A few years ago)
A significant part of my side business profit is a result of having a laser/lasers in my shop. It's important to remember to get a laser that matches your needs- Diode vs. CO2 vs. Fiber.
You know itâs an awesome laser when it requires that a second fire extinguisher is hung on the wall. đ„
I just bought a used CNC router to make stuff to sell. I dont know what i want to make yet though. I should have done like what you suggested and design the stuff first.
id love to have a laser however as a carpenter with no shop ill have to get by using power tools for a while. this video was very good and it certainly makes me wanna get a laser when i have the shop and space for it
I have glowforge and then upgraded to Mira. It's not easy to sell anything these day. Paying off will be a few year for me.
The real trick, as always, is in the design and creativity, not the tool.
The book nook is a great example. Not every average how can easily design something like that.
The cost of that thing being only in the low 5 figures makes it a no brainer for a business, even a small one. Equipment amortization is always pretty fast if youâre not a dunderhead, for me itâs just a matter of sizing up my shop space to be able to fit it, but thatâs a different issue.
Looking at the Nova 51, it weighs 948 lbs. How did you get it in the shop?
Excellent advice. Get your designs ready then buy the machine. As usual great video
In our local Makerspace we recently bought a 2nd 80W CO2-Laser as it is one of our most used machines. And we use it internal also a lot for prototyping or enclosure building^^
One thing: Pls tell me there a Plans or a Kit available for Josh's little desktop Arcade! I want one so bad :D
Wow, all I have to do is create a unique product that people will want that I can sell for profit in mass with no audience or experience in retail?!
My 14 year old self was able to sell stuff online and I had a factory going in my basement. It's not that hard.
I bought one diode laser for my home but I'm considering to buy a CO2 because the other is quite smaller but great for small pieces. I have searched a spanish company because I'm tired to fix it by myself and I don't want any remote support anymore. It's expensive but bigger than the diode laser (and also I don't have more space in my garage to have a full size like yours) that I'm trying to sell it because I want to invest that money to the CO2 and pay almost less money... Greetings from Spain.
A lot of areas have maker spaces. Go to one. Ask them to show you the laser. You have a place to prototype and get training and advice before you make the investment
Before you get a CO2 laser there are a lot of negatives to consider. 1. A laser cutter requires regular maintenance, 2. mirrors, lenses, bearings, drive belts, power supplies and the laser tube will eventually fail. A 130-150 watt laser tube has an expected life span of about 8-10 thousand hours & will cost upwards of $2000.00 to replace. 3. safety is a serious concern with lasers. One careless mistake can get you a really nasty burn or it could burn your house down. Lasers are not like 3D printers, you can not start a job, walk away and let it do its thing, you have to be there with the laser from start to finish.
I know it fits your analytics best, but manâŠI had a ritual of watching you on Thursdays at the end of my lunch break. Gonna take some adjustment, lol
This was a dangerous video for me to watch as someone who wants a laser cutter really bad but has no room for one. I need to get back into my local maker space!
Two questions. 1) Would you have gone with that big laser if they didn't give you one. 2) Are you selling you glowforge, that's what I need for leather.
Yes - we were planning on getting this size laser for the projects we had begun working on. No, I'm keeping that Glowforge, sorry!!
Quite a long way from that little garage shop you used to have.
What are the power requirements for the lasers? I know the glow forge is 110, but what about the big ones?
110 volts works for most home/hobbiest/workshop lasers. There are some lasers needing 3 phase power but those are relatively rare (if you need one of those it's likely not your first one).
it is the final 5% that makes ideas and products successful. Good digital workflow before you even switch on the machine also keeps you focused
Hi, Billy Mays here! đ
$13K is a lot, but still not bad considering what it is. I would imagine paying at least that (if not MORE) for any other commercial-level piece of machinery. Really not a bad price when you think about it.
This is an unusually biased video from ILTMS, which is a bit disappointing. I have a laser in my shop, so am firmly in the laser camp, but your example of a MDF book nook could easily be produced on a significantly cheaper diode laser, yes it will be slower to cut, but it won't cost anywhere near $13k. I also see the massive number of comments from noob laser users who cannot get their heads around Lightburn or the proprietary software that comes with their laser, so yes if you are fluent in cad software then lightburn is simple to use, if not then you have a steep learning curve, in fact the learning curve of the laser and software is nothing like any other tool you will have in your shop, can it work, yup, can it pay for itself, yup mine did in 3 months, but I didn't spend $13k to get of the ground,
Nothing says let's make a video like a company giving you a $13,400.00 machine....
Yeah, this feels SO MUCH like an infomercial for laser cutters.
Who else just watched a 15 minute ad.
â@@zS39SBT4fe5Zp8Q I did.
Thereâs valuable information contained within that have isnât completely to do with the laser cutter he was given. Heâs up front about it being given to him. Bob and the guys have made many videos that offer valuable techniques and advice for free.
@@dimcclung Not really for free. We watch ads and YT pays him ad revenue. Great Channel! But they do get paid just like the people of Dirty Jobs or Mythbusters did for making a show.
Laser Beans.
Very interesting idea. I like it. Thanks for the advices.
Some day I'm definitely going to get one... Some day. đŹ
Thanks, guys!!! đ
Stay safe there with your families! đđ
So cool. I would love to have 1 .....but u need room & money, the greater of the 2 right now is room. U said leather could be cut, what about vinyl or fabric?
Customation! đ€Ł Love it ILTMS team!!
even if you dont use it to specifically make something it can be used to make templates for normal woodworking
Good luck getting noticed amongst the thousands of other people doing the same thing.
Not trying to piss on anyone's fire but you'll find yourself spending more time trying get noticed than you will in the shop.
By all mean try, just be realistic and lower your expectations, you might sell enough to pay off the machine but it could also take years.
Even if you use it to add value to product you're already making, or make jigs to help your work flow, or do customization work, you'll be able to pay it off relatively quickly.
Like the tablesaw example, people don't go "oh I need to make X amount of items for Y amount of time to pay it off", but rather "I need this tool to enable me to do things that make money, and pay for itself along the way".
Paying for the tool isn't the main objective, but rather what it allows you to do that then makes you money.
Epilog Lasers are the best.
This is just making stuff with fire, but advance technology. And Fire was a big deal in the past and present so this is something to consider, if you have the wallet.
Ive come to this channel from listening to Making It podcast from 8 years ago. Just wondering who this Josh guy is he like a helper like Jimmy with David.
love the memorial plaque for Jerry, I heard he went on to be mayor
Totally loved this video....thank you !!
I cant believe this thing costs only as much as two glowforges. I thougt it would be way more expensive.
I love lasers!
Cooler beans đ«
I normally like your content but this felt like a hard sales pitch for a $13,000 giant laser cube. It was a 14+ minute advertisement. Thumbs down.
loved the Parks and Rec reference
First, you actually have to have the money to invest in buying one. I guess Iâll have to just stick with my Cricut Explorer for now.