What Went Wrong With 'The Godfather Part III' | The Rewatchables | The Ringer
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2020
- As soon as Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan thought they were out, The Rewatchables pulls them back in. For the third movie in our series of Flawed Rewatchables, we revisit ‘The Godfather: Part III’ starring Al Pacino, Talia Shire, and Andy Garcia, directed by Francis Ford Coppola
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Godfather 3 is still the only film I know to seriously tackle the Vatican banking scandal, which really happened, and with serious economic reprecussions.
It might be the only redeeming thing about it in my eyes.
Agree that alone makes it a great film for me
The script was interesting , but no tom Hagen, Sofia is not actress and even the villains were not good... don attobello was okay but nothing compared to hyman Roth
@@azizmutlaq5370 Much better than in part 2
That aspect was excellent. And, of course, Joe Mantegna.
Chris's epic International Immobiliare bits:
45:53
46:31
1:01:22
1:07:47
1:16:46
1:22:12
Jan Puhar can we pin this comment to the top?
Those moments were absolutely hilarious 😂
Thank you
You've done God's work here
Apex mountain for Chris
I thought the best scene of the movie was Michael's confession to Cardinal Lamberto. Just the most real and raw scene in the film.
Agreed. I’m shocked it didn’t come up.
Can you imagine the guy about to become pope telling you "Your sins are terrible. It is just that you suffer?"
Totally
I killed my mother’s son
@@brandonfranzen5191 HEART CRUSHING
Pacino's performance during the confessional scene is fantastic and the best part of the movie.
Absolutely agree, he’s good to great in this movie
Not having Robert Duvall is what ultimately killed this movie.
George Hamilton was horribly miscast in this movie....2nd only to Sophia Coppola.
Well said
That was a big problem.
The fact that the studio felt 3 could work without Duvall shows how stupid Hollywood executives are or a least can be. It’s like when MGM was making a killing at the box office with the James Bond franchise but wouldn’t give Sean Connery a raise.
You think Tom Hagen should've been recast, then go with the original script?
Love the pod guys!...Appreciate you doing it...Everyone be careful out there!
45:54 Chris had Sean dying over there.
Highlight of the episode
In complete agreement with Bill - Appolonia was definitely the love of Michael's life and her story arc in Godfather 1 is perhaps the most beautiful of the series. I have always thought that Michael would have been much better off had Appolonia survived than he ever was with Kay. To me the dynamic between both wives mirrors the conflict within Michael himself; being caught between two mutually exclusive worlds. Appolonia is Italian, her love is pure and unconditional and Michael can be the truest version of himself with her. Kay is an American, she represents Michael's search for legitimacy and acceptance in the new world, she loves Michael for what he could be, not for what he actually is. These relationships demonstrate the tension that Michael, and many other children of immigrants, feel. A struggle between family, tradition and loyalty and a search for legitimacy and acceptance in America.
Well said, apollonia would have been a traditional wife who kept her mouth shut. Kay was not neccesarily a bad wife but she was in love with the old Micheal before he got mixed up in the business
But Michael wasn't struggling with this. He merely went to Italy to hide out.
@@bfoz but he did truly fall in love with Appolonia but unfortunately his bad choices was what began his struggles cause it endangered those he loved beginning with Appolonia & coming full circle with his daughter. Kay was in the middle cause she didn't die but was in a horrible marriage & witnessed the death of her daughter because of Micheal
Michael's and Kay's kids are not full blooded Italian, their son could not be made. "Real greaseball shit"
Michael would have wanted legit careers for his children, a non Sicilian Mother would assure this.
@@rxtsec1 Yeah, because some weak men seek out submissive "traditional" mute sex objects since they can't deal with women at all
This is the first time I've watched one of these on video, and I must say that it adds a lot... The moment where Chris looks at the camera when Bill says something inappropriate is just gold.
Happens all the time. These three are hilarious.
Not to mention Big Boy from Sick Tracy brilliant performance.
We need a "INTERNATIONAL IMMOBILIARE" t-shirt NOW
4:05 Donnie Brasco, The Insider, Insomnia, Angels in America, You Don't Know Jack, Phil Spector, Paterno and The Irishman all say hello.
Chris is right, the modern equivalent of fan disappointment is probably "Phantom Menace". I was a cinema mgr in Portland, OR when that came out & there were fans camping outside the theatre days before release; the anticipation & hysteria was unreal...and then it released. It was almost an ethereal experience seeing excited grown-up adult fans dressed up like Luke Skywalker & Han Solo literally run into the theatre to get their seat & walk out of the theatre after it was over like they had just been to a funeral. Some were like Bill's stepdad trying to convince themselves that it was great, saying things like "well, George Lucas did it again, it's, it's....well, he did it again" to looks of disbelief from their friends. I can only imagine how this movie must have been a punch to the gut for all those superfans who know GF 1 & 2 by heart. Bill is correct though that Coppola never wanted or intended this to be a "part III"; he conceptualized it to be an epilogue or (as his modern cut makes clear) a coda to the earlier stories. Oh, if only it had Winona Ryder & Robert Duvall...in some alternate reality, some multiverse, there is a perfect GF3 with them in the cast.
The best reaction I got from someone who saw "The Phantom Menace" when it came out, was it was a good summer popcorn movie, but it sucked as a "Star Wars" movie.
That never happened
Thank you for making this. So good
Bill's hate for Diane Keaton in the Godfather series is real, lol
moresources it’s like she wronged him in another life or something. Mentioning the hair before the incest as what’s aged the worst? Yeesh.
@@jomarch1085 I wasn't thrilled with Diane Keaton either, maybe she was miscast, or the script. Some how she just seemed out of place.
Real talk. Bill really ain't feelin' Diane Keaton!
P Pumpkin she was supposed to be out of place
She was supposed to get on your nerves. She was the outsider that was on the outside. It’s a movie about family like the Sopranos was about family. Like Tom, being almost the opposite, he’s the outsider that’s more in/involved than anyone. By him being in both regimes (Vito’s and Michael’s), it makes him more of a big piece of the puzzle than anyone
Coppola mentions in the DVD commentary that the incest is from the Coppola family history. Coppola was mocked as a child for his family history.
well....he should have been because that is pretty fucked up lol.
(*banjos playing Italian music*)
One aspect of Godfather III that has gone mostly unnoticed: early in the film some newspaper headlines indicate that the events are taking place in November 1979, but almost nothing in the film is appropriate to that period. Costumes, hairstyles, interiors - they're all contemporary 1990. Women have shoulder pads. Men wear double-breasted suits. Aside from some of the cars, nothing looks like 1979. I noticed this when I saw the film in theaters on its initial release. I wonder what Coppola's thought process was...
His last performance that has nuance? Do you even watch movies Bill??? Donnie Brasco, Carlito's Way, Heat, The Insider, Paterno, The Irishman.
Devil's Advocate and the Dr.Kavarkian movie
Insomnia
Jerry 85g where was the nuance in his devils advocate performance?!
Nick M lol yeah that’s not a good example.
Carlito's Way is Pacino's best performance of the 90s.
The Godfather Part 3 (1990) was frankly not as bad as I thought it would be when I watched it for the first time.
The bad reputation of this film is not unfounded especially when you compare it to Part 1 and 2. But as a separate film? It's actually not that bad.
The Godfather Part 3 is definitely a downgrade from its predecessors, but it's still a good film and an acceptable end to this Trilogy.
Completely agree its definitely a guilty pleasure movie for me. Sofia Coppola is bad but she doesn't singlehandedly ruin the movie for me.
it's a watchable movie but a poor ending.
@@vizionaryentertainment8464 Sofia was a cutey, but not the most experienced actress.
I recently watched Godfather Coda (aka Part III) and it was not a good film. The first 45 minutes or hour was good but it nose dived after Vincent Mancini made his kill in middle of the street fair. Not going to give away spoilers. Coppola was ok actually because she played the nice innocent italian girl. The villains were weak even though I like Eli Wallach (honorary italian in my book like James Caan). The dialogue was quite good and the scenes with Pacino including him confessing to the Cardinal was powerful.
Godfather 4 could have still been about Michael Corleone because he doesn't actually die in part 3 until he is significantly older.
So if Godfather 3 takes place in 1979, we can assume Michael doesn't die until the 90s based on how much he appears to be aged up in his death scene. A fourth movie could take place within that time frame.
After Godfather III, Pacino became even more focused on live theater, which is why I have so much respect for him.
I’m upset that they didn’t mention the whole scene when Michael confesses his sins to the priest. Just for priest to be Pope John Paul I and died in the movie.
That was the best scene in the movie in my opinion.
"And you'll have the shortest executive career since that Pope that got poisoned!"
a movie about a man who gave his life to his Family and the impossible trials of "getting out". i dont understand why more people didnt appreciate how well made this movie is and how it pushes its point so effortlessly. i honestly cant find a single flaw with it and its in my top 10 greatest films ever made, i could watch it forever.
Sophia Coppola’s acting is arguably the only flaw but it is an *ENORMOUS* flaw.
I always thought the idea that Michael's son played such a tiny role in Godfather III was a curious decision. In a series of films that is all about family it would have been interested if they went another route with his character. Anthony Corleone as an opera singer was a major fail IMHO.
The easiest way to go would be Andy Garcia as Anthony and rework the character from the ground up. There are many ways to go with that. It could even set up more films. They tried to be overly creative instead of going logical. Vincent wasn’t necessary as a character since Sonny did have a legitimate son. Recast Andy as Michael’s son and bring in Tom’s actual son with another actor, and create a conflict between them stemming from the past. Easy.
Great discussion the what if’s for this film are amazing
Simmons doesn't believe that Matt Dillon was considered for Vincent? That seems very credible to me. Dillon gave a series of really great performances in the 80s, had done fantastic work with Coppola and was one of the few emerging stars that consistently played Italian roles. I'm baffled by Simmons' disbelief.
And Nicolas Cage would've been an actual cousin to Sofia Coppola, no?
And Dillon already had a history of working with Coppola in The Outsiders and Rumble Fish.
'International immobilarle,'...I've bewitched THAT scene many times. Thank you😊
This is one of your guys’ best. The three of you are dynamite
Great episode
Bill was in rare form here. Truly at his best 🤣
The tom hangan character was missed in the godfather part 3. They should have paid the man. It would have been a different movie 💯💯
You should of went to school. Would been a different comment.
@@Dajmoxker Both of you should HAVE gone to school. Jesus Christ lol
@@shyadeny oh wow, you don't even realize I'm doing that on purpose.
@@Dajmoxker of course you did ;)
@@shyadeny Damn, you got me, much smart.
Would definitely love to hear an update from the Rewatchables Crew on their thoughts about the newly released GF3 Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone.
Perfect to end the video with...'' Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,....'' LOL
Godfather III gets a bad wrap. It's a solid movie with great performances from Pacino and Garcia. I actually wanted to see a 4th based on Garcia's character. Comparing part 3 to the first 2 isn't right. The first 2 are arguably 2 of the greatest movies of all time.
Why is it not right to compare a movie in a trilogy to the others? Just because it’s not as good? That logic makes no sense
Citizen Kane is regarded as the greatest movie of all time.
The Archbishop impression has me howling 😂😂
Just found this channel great stuff... but what's Bill's trigger with Kay? Same Part 2 - it's a bit much. Edit. I had to go back and watch the scene with the school kids. After Apollonia was murdered. In that Kay scene in CT when he comes to her and proposes - there was a dissolve between the scenes. A time passage between when she is walking with the kids he walks up and when they are walking down the street before she gets in the car. So there was a passage of time - where we can believe the kids would have been taken back to school.
Internal Affairs rewatchable for your next one. Bill and Chris are spot on about how good that movie is.
Bill doesn’t watch movies with subtitles
I remember at the time it came out Talia Shire had started doing this dramatic ‘Italian Woman’ acting by waving her arms about. She did it in Rocky 5 as well.
“Has he aged the best or the worst?”
“He has added the most”
😂😂😂
There’s an edit and time lapse between when Kay is with the kids and when she gets into the car-
Notice when she gets into the car , she is alone( presumably having taken care of who gets to take her place-
P.S. ... Rudy Giuliani's first wife was his first cousin. You can look it up.
James Tobin what a mess the United States government is
This is my first time watching one of these episodes and Sean getting so uncomfortable when anything provocative gets brought up is hilarious
I've tried to watch Godfather III so many times. I saw it once initially. It was cringe in the first ten minutes when Kay out of nowhere starts screaming at Michael that she doesn't trust him. It's exhausting and not in a good way.
Fantastic episode. Chris's impressions of Gilday has me rolling. I can't believe Bill didn't go on another hilarious rant about Al Martino sucking as Johnny Fontaine. I think Sean is wrong, Bill doesn't hate Diane Keaton he hates Kay.
Very good. Enjoyable, knowledgeable, funny. “ Could this be edited down into a 2 hour film...? “ It just has been....!!!
Great WASPy detail of the Commission in the hotel scene: HP Sauce on the table.
Godfather 3 is an awesome movie. Of course it is not as good as 1 or 2 but it's still damn good. Pacino's performance is one of the most underrated in film history. It's the same guy he is just older and damaged. I bought it. The clear issue was no Tom Hagen. I think if Duvall is in it it would have been in the same league as 1 and 2. The storyline is actually my favorite in all 3 films.
Who's the drummer in the poster behind Chris?
The movie is set in 1979 but nobody is wearing late ‘70s fashion styles!! All late 80s fashions! 🙄WTF?
Lol I’ve said that for years too. No one really brings that up.
I always chalked it up to all of them being very rich and having the money for the latest fashions. Still, over done.
I enjoyed it. But I also have the discipline of no expectations from anything. Take things as they come.
Live inside out.
I haven’t seen the original Part 3 but the new version - Coda - is an amazing film. A worthy sequel.
Meh
They are not much different. I like the original GF3 much better. It explains the plot better. Coda is just a shorter version of the original.
Part 3 has had some changes made to it and is getting re-released in December.
That real world Vatican plot would have been to hard for the best writer to fictionalize. Not getting a real actress after Winona Ryder dropped out and using Sophia Coppola was the nail in the coffin for GFIII. I'm not going to lie I still watch because of strong performances by Pacino.
“It was true...” dead silence. Love it. Don’t bad mouth the chairman of the board boys. 57:11
The problem was 2 things. Number one 16 years had gone by they shouldn’t have made it to begin with, but Coppola wanted to name it the death of Michael corleone not part 3 cuz part 3 added expectations that couldn’t be met leaving those 2 alone not attaching more to them would’ve helped and no Robert duvall
1:10 In 2003 I was pumped for T3 and Rise of the Machines sucked hard after the first two Terminator films are near perfect, Ray Liotta got robbed in 1990, Pacino in the 80's was nuts
Same thing for me with that movie and with Aliens 3.
Joe Spinell starred in Maniac, not Maniac Cop. Both were directed by William Lustig, interestingly. And Maniac was remade with Elijah Wood(!) in the Spinell role.
Can someone tell me what Kay was saying to Michael in Godfather 2 regarding Anthony? I couldn't pick out what being said with all of the yelling.
Bill underrates Kay a little, but Apollonia's memory clearly hangs over Michael's life. Killing Sollozzo and McCluskey is not the moment that he loses his innocence. He clearly had to kill many men on the field of battle in WWII. Apollonia's death is the moment when he realizes that what he was born into is so dark that he must protect what he has no matter the cost, and he loses his soul in the process. That was hinted at in Pt. III, but they never make it explicit. That time in Sicily was the closest he ever had to an idyll, and the violent disruption of it turned him cold.
The Michael/Gilday scene should have been the opening scene, it tells you everything about the deal and put Michael going Legit to the forefront.
Bill cannot let go of the poodle haircut. Hilarious!
Come on, it's horrific. 😁
It's just a perm.
49:55 I always enjoy how the godfather discussions devolve into kay-corleone-hate
Everytime they talk about Pacino they never talk about Donnie Brasco.
One of the Most Underrated performances in Films period. Top 5 in Pacino performances
Agreed. I would also add the Insider into that equation. Pacino and Crowe worked great together. I think in both those movies he took it a little easier on the whoa lol.
I love Part III, I love the three movies.
Is it being negative or positive to say the other 2 are better? Probably both, part II was so amazing that it would have taken some kind of miracle to match it. I thought part II topped the first one...that's a whole different argument for another video, may be good clickbait..
@@bradmodd7856 positive if your talking 1 and 2
Is the "Coda" re-vision better??
If you watch 3 more than twice its very good
1)Sophia Coppola was in it 2)No Robert Duvall 3) The movie spent time going over shit that people already knew 4) Diane Keeton....who gave a damn about Kay, when Michael closed the door on her that's the last time I needed to see her
The real nugget here is the hilarious mocking of Tilman Fertita.
"I don´t even know waht Revolution is about..."
My Goodness.
Listen to God’s Banker by Sick Jacken. Breaks down the whole Banco Ambrosiano/P2 lodge/Calvi scandal.
I always thought.....if Puzo KNEW there was going to be a Godfather III. A lot of story line used in the Last Don would have been used in Godfather III.
So BIll complains about Kay's hair but not Pacino's?! And neither Sean or Chris say anything about it either? It is distracting.
Sean "I know that opera, I like that opera" Fennessey
Pacino in Insomia lacked nuance?
He was amazing in Insomnia.
It's one of his best performances.
He's about as mysterious as a clogged toliet is to a plumber
Awesome! They have video!
J.J. Abrahams remade the movie into Star Trek Into Darkness for one :)
if this had been made no later than 1980, we may have had greatness again. (w/Duvall.)
I thought Joe Mantegna gave a piss-poor performance. If anyone was a bad actor in this movie, it was he.
I thought that Al Pacino was channeling Tony Montana for his performance of Michael. That's all I could see in him in the movie. The kitchen scene during his diabetic seizure was him completely doing TM.
The best scenes were with Andy Garcia. The scene in Michael's office and the other in AG's apartment were the best of the movie. They were the most reminiscent of the "Godfather style".......especially the latter scene.
The level of hate on this movie baffles me to no end. Is it as great as the first two...? Hell no!! But it is by no means a cinematic debacle. Sofia Coppola, who isn't that much of an actress to begin with, didn't ruin the movie whole. Anybody who says that either wants attention or hasn't seen that many movies to begin with. Andy Garcia is great. Talia Shire nearly steals the movie. And the final 30 minutes at the opera house is one of the most gorgeous and suspenseful set pieces committed on film. I still remember how much of a gut punch it was to see Michael mourn like that at the end juxtaposed with the flashbacks of all the women in his life who are either dead or actively hate him.
The fundamental issue of the film is that there's no Tom Hagen. Tom is as crucial to the journey of Michael as Sonny and Fredo were. It's like having Return of the Jedi without Darth Vader, you can't do it. Paramount to their detriment should've offered Duvall his full quote to appear in the picture, but they figured all they needed was Pacino and everything would work itself out. Uhhh...nope!
This film actually was well-received when it came out. I've always felt the degree of hatred towards it is grossly unfair, generated mainly by those who weren't there for its theatrical run. As good as the first two films? Certainly not. But a far better third installment of an iconic franchise than, say, Return of the Jedi, Last Crusade, or Matrix: Revolutions.
My lucky coat
@@habovay3 No way, Return of the Jedi and Last Crusade were far better endings.
Mary is the baby in the baptism scene in Godfather.
Never trust anyone's film opinions if they get uncomfortable over Cruising.
IF YOU DONT LIKE GODFATHER PART 3..THEN YOU NEVER LIVED THAT LIFE...that LINE is used over and over in SOPRANOS
Chris totally contradicts himself. He says Sophia's role in the movie isn't that important and is over emphasized then two minutes later it's one of the most important roles ever
Casting Sofia Coppola in The Godfather has to be the worst casting decision of all time.
I think that combined with Duvall not being in it doomed the movie from the jump. It just was never going to work. Pay Duvall and get someone else to play Mary or just wait until Winona Ryder feels better.
Wonder how many times it has been watched ? Millions of times. So maybe it was great too ?
The Rewatchables is what I enjoy most about The Ringer. And Laura San Giacomo as Mary is a brilliant pull.
Thomas Crown III I hate it so much! I wish they’d put it on a separate feed. I find the people so smarmy and self satisfied. I just popped in here to see what they looked like.
Depardieu in Cyrano is one of the best, if not THE best, performance in a french film. Perfect casting. French panache at its best.
Wallach taking roles from other ethnicities isn’t that confusing if you take into acount his background in the American Yiddish theater. On of the main things required from an actor there was to play different ethnicities and even other genders. You had to be able to do it all. Brando who was also a student of Yiddish theater, did the same thing. He played characters who were Mexican, Japanese, Italiani, Indian etc. even though he was German-Irish.
You can argue that it’s problematic(I myself think that it is) but for actors of that generation it was not just a common practice but also what they considered to be a natural part of their job.
As Greg Proops so brilliantly put it when he guested on the James Bonding podcast, "It's in that grand tradition of jews playing every nationality" haha.
Fredo is killed in late 1959. The entirety of the non-Vito scenes in The Godfather Pt. II take place between 1958 and 1960.
I loved this movie because the Vatican bank was the guarantor lol. I loved all the Andy Garcia scenes. The Mike Tysoning of Joey Zaza (Joe Montagna), wanna dance with me darlin, Pow Zaza! Andy was great.
That movie is NOT a "rewatchable", it's a "forgettable"...I had to skip through the last hour to finish it up! That being said, these guys are f'n hilarious!
Anthony Quinn would have been an AMAZING Don Altobello.
I feel like if the original plan went ahead and Winona Ryder played Mary instead of last-minute pinch hitter Sofia Coppola, we would be talking about Godfather 3, the film that wasn't quite as good as the first 2 instead of Godfather 3 the lemon. However, the film also misses other actors who were replaced by the likes of George Hamilton. However, FF Coppola had already dealt with this in Godfather 2 where Michael V. Gazzo replaced Richard S. Castellano so I get why he felt like full steam ahead, no problems here.
Apex Mountain: Chris Ryan
13:36 Cruising reference
GF 3 is realy about someone who tries to turn family business into corporation one and fails.
The recut is awesome
Bill, go watch Waves 2019. Like a modern day Vision Quest. And put Mallory Rubin in more videos
Youse guys, i kinda feel like i've stumbled upon a
3-way circle jerk, 'cause
you're sooo into each
other, it's almost embarrassing 😂
That said, i enjoyed your insights, BIG TIME... And,
you've bagged a new
subscriber 👍🏻
I thought God Father 111 was an amazing story and was well executed. Great story, great acting and amazing Cini photography. I also completly disagree with your comments on casting. I love the casting performances in this movie.
What about Danny Aiello for any re-role?