RED - The Good, The Bad, and the Underhanded?
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- 16 Stops Episode #11 This episode is about Komodo X and the RED brand. Why we bought RED cameras, why they are different from other cameras, Stormtrooper models, camera releases, competition and the RED tax.
Email your questions (horizontal videos under 15 seconds) to:
16stopspodcast at gmail dot com
Our Other CZcams Channels:
Brandon’s Main Channel - / @brandontalbot
Brandon’s Camera Channel - / @caffeinatedcameras
Josh's Channel - / @josh_sattin
Josh's Farming Channel - / @joshsattinfarming
#podcast #videography #filmmaking
Hey Everybody! Welcome back:) sorry it took so long, but we’re back! What are our thoughts on RED? Love or hate? Did we miss anything?
You should pin this comment 💪🏻
@@davidmorefield Done:) Thanks for the suggestion.
Hey watchers! I’ve got an update to some of the comments I made in the video.
1) R5C power save mode is BETTER than I original thought. I’ve been using it a lot over the last few days and if you’re shooting basic Clog3 24p the battery lasts quite a bit longer. It’s tough to quantify cause the percentage jumps around a lot. It will start at 86 min, drop to 59% quickly stay there for a while, drop to 30%… then when you turn the camera back on it will show 50ish minutes again. AF I wouldn’t say is FASTER, but stickier. There’s also some other improvements but those were the big ones we brought up.
2) Other Komodo X improvements that are actually pretty good. The overall speed of the UI is proper fast. It makes using the camera way better. Built in Frame IO integration. Here’s a huge one that only the X has that even the raptor doesn’t have and that’s user programmable Record buttons. So if you want to half press to turn on AF or False Color you can. And there’s a host of options to chose from. Black shading on the Original Komodo took about 2 1/2 min. On KX it’s 23seconds. That’s a HUGE improvement.
Anyway there ya go.
I’m still jealous Brandon got to meet Deakins.
I can’t believe you didn’t !? Also I think I creeped him out 😂
+1.
I'm jealous Deakins met Brandon.
Deakins did look nervous 😂
That thumbnail though … I didn’t know Red made washer/dryer combo units.
It’s really good
Killer podcast guys, and glad to see you back! Not in the RED world myself, but fascinating to see what is out there thru your perspectives.. 👊
Hey hey Jason thanks for watching and we’re glad you enjoyed it
The huge problem with Red patent is its lacks of technicity, it's not missunderstanding to me... It's just too simple and broad.
AGREE
Good to have you back guys!!!
I don’t think the patent comment about RED is correct. RED patent is for their compression algorithm and for the act of video compression in an electronic device. Even if Sony, Canon or Apple creates their own algorithm to compress video they still CANT use it it in any device cause the RED patent is for the act of compression. It is the same as Canon come with a patent for lens attached to a camera body lined to a sensor. Even every brand have their own lens mount, the patent is for the act of attach a lens to a camera body lined to the sensor.
In my opinion, this RED parent is predatory and is holding back the entire industry
Glad to be back! And thanks for watching. I'd counter the "holding back the entire industry" with The industry seems to be doing fine with a host of other cameras that aren't RED's, and there's lots of cameras out there with various forms of RAW that simply paid for the license. Plus the patent expires soon, and so we'll see if there's really a surge of technological advancement and happiness lol. RED sure is polarizing though right?
@@16Stops I don't know a single manufacture that paid RED and implemented internal compressed RAW video recording. Sony tried with their cinema line and was sued by RED, Kinefinity tried and was sued by RED, Apple tried with the iPhone and was also sued by RED, DJI was threatened to be sued by RED when they intended to put internal compressed RAW in the RONIN 4D. RED only didn't sue Blackmagic cause their cameras don't use the original RAW video, they created the Blackmagic RAW that is a kind of half RAW that is not RAW so they could get around being sued by RED. And finally we have Nykon that have their own internal compressed RAW in the Z9 and were sued by RED but nobody knows what happened with the legal case and it was dismissed. So Nykon is the only manufacture with real internal compressed RAW recording capability other than RED
Maybe, with the possibility to use internal compressed RAW, the R5 8K video would be something total different and usable. Who knows?! I agree, RED is polarizing
Love this,,
Thanks for watching!
quick comment about the 16-bit color comment: the 16-bit color is referencing linear color, which is equivalent to the amount of data encoded 10-bit log color. broadcast cameras have been 16-bit for a long time because they're not log and need to be high quality 709 for live events.
that said R3D files are great and the main selling point for RED cameras. if that patent ever gets wiped out, hopefully other camera companies could have as robust compressed raw files.
wow. another podcast. I love Red!
Thank you!🙏🏽
Outstanding podcast. Keep the episodes coming. Love it !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Subscribed! Thank you for this podcast! It pushed me into deciding to purchase my first RED Camera - my Komodo X arrives today!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shit!!!!! Hope you love it as much as I have loved mine:)
BRUH...I LOVE IT! I've had plenty of time to play with it and NO buyers remorse. It's a bad @ss camera man. Just dropped a review for it. Thanks again! @@16Stops
Getting closer to that 1k. Keep it up, you guys are great!
So close!
This was fun to watch. Another RED enthusiast here! Cheers to Brandon and happy to follow you now! Thanks, man
Glad you enjoyed!
Keep up the good work!! Love this kind of content, I do change my camera every 1 or 2 years, feel nice knowing I'm not the only one! Love the R8 right now for wildlife, never had to film more than 15 min continuous, so still ok, and the 4k quality for that price + prores with Ninja is really nice!
Thank you:) we’ll do our best! Yeah for use cases what a great value the R8 would be
So fun to meet and hang! I’ll take Thomas K hahah
We had a good time dude! Cinegear was way better because you came
DSCMC3 monitor was a painful purchase but hot dang I love it on KX
Yeah I will bite the bullet at some point.
Does The Komodo over heat?
@@tinman6182 I've never had a overheat. That's not to say it can't, but I've never had one. And I've pushed the crap out of it in some crazy hot situations.
I love how both of you get excited like kids about komodo.
I think RED would be the only other camera I'd be interested in trying. I'm fully vested in Canon and the RF glass. It's kinda funny to hear the complaints about RED costs. Rewind 20-25 years ago and think about what crazy numbers far lesser products were charging for equipment. We have a lot to be grateful for. A lot. We are in an era where excuses are our only real limitations. If you can be all in with a KX for under 20k... that ain't bad. Or all in for 8k-ish with a fully rigged C70... or an iPhone. You can get stuff done.
Oh, whole-heartedly agree. It’s absolutely bananas how far your money goes with photo/video technology now-a-days
Good to hear to talk Fuji
Fuji = Fun
It's a 15 / 17k$ worth of investment for global shutter and R3D. Same boat, lots of events sports stuff and some studio / advertising.
Boot-time, shading & PRICE is a huge questions. FX3 lacks color depth, FX6 doesn't make sense IQ wise compared to FX3, it just a handle, XLR, internal ND.
It either 4-6K$ for a FX3 rigged, or 15-17k$ for a RED Komodo X that's a huuuuuge stretch.
You can't go wrong with the FX3. I have some friends who run the production for the AVP and that's all they use.
GFX50R sensor raw are just insane and very organic. I totaly agree, a Compact X100V / medium format would just be bonkers if priced right.
Please please pretty please @fujifilm
@@16Stops What focal lenght / speed do you think would be indeal ? Size could be a real issue...
Give me an equivalent focal length of something around a 28-40 at an f2 and I’d be over the moon
Subbed 🎉
Welcome aboard big man.
*update on why Stormtroopers were priced differently from the black ones: a contact told me " They were hand built at RED in California and used higher end components while the ...Black OG Komodo's have slightly lower quality parts and are mass assembled in Mexico."
What? No. Fuji, update the mf body with the newest video features (flog 2, 10 bit, stacked sensor). It would be the largest format sensor this side of the Alexa 65.
I chopped probably half of the news and rumors and they will go in the next episode. We can’t have an hour long news and rumors section.
Subbed 👍
Thanks for the sub!
Who wants to see Josh do a Review on his Komodo? ;)
Subscribed. Hire me as an editor?… 😂😉
Get us another 150 subs and we’ll talk lol:) but seriously we’d love to have a great editor. I’m saving your info
@@16Stops awesome awesome 😊
@@jakefelzien Send me an email bud.
@@16Stops emailed Josh 🤙
What happened with your Panasonic? Was that camera all CZcams hype?
Josh has a review on it I’m sure. He returned it quite a while ago, but I definitely wouldn’t say it’s hype. Lots of people love that camera.
@BrandonTalbot just curious cause he said he bought it and never heard much else. And I'm dubious whenever 50 channels come out praising a camera and then never hear about it again (not talking about Josh, but the usual suspects who get em for "free"). Anyway, love the channel!
I like the RED KX but you guys are mischaracterizing the RAW "patent" issue with RED. I just think you are not aware of the lack of proprietary patenting that RED is claiming. They just have a BROAD patent that says compressing RAW in camera is THEIR idea. People aren't getting sued for stealing their RAW compression algorithm or hardware, they are getting sued for just compressing RAW in camera. You are allowed to compress RAW outside of a camera without them suing you or paying a fee.
It sounds like I’ve got to dive into it deeper
@@16Stops - I believe RED compresses the sensor data before it gets debayered which is true RAW. I believe other companies get around the patent by compressing their “RAW” after the sensor data is debayered.
If you think final cut is faster than resolve… Then you are clueless. We did a neck and neck comparison and in every endeavor resolve was equally as fast if not faster. And the color correction in final cut is a joke. The color correction in resolve is as good as it gets. How can you possibly work in Final Cut? An associate of mine had lunch with a guy who was color correcting the last Indiana Jones movie and he did everything in resolve.
Cool
So the Red is better because it looks cool, makes you feel good and is worse by almost all other metrics.
You are really selling it! 🙂
Swing and a miss for Don.
@@16Stops I was being a bit tongue in cheek perhaps but poor autofocus performance, expensive accessories, similar image quality.. by what measurable metric is it an improvement over a C70? What am I missing?
In general i like this channel and I understand that this is just a chat between friends but the level of information and insight seemed pretty low and i am surprised. Well unfortunately i am not. Brandon i think that is his name, apologies, seems a nice guy but is exactly the red user i am not and the issue is that he is probably more like the owners of red than i am and it says alot about the brand alignment that he feels and the misalignment that i feel. Simply put i dont trust Red as far as i could throw them. They feel hugely immature and adolescent as a personality and brand. Maybe i am just hugely suspicious of anyone who wears a baseball cap backwards all the time and overuses the word rad but the post oakley skateboarder vibe feels the complete antithesis to brands like Arri Canon Sony or any of the Japanese manufacturers and very eighties. They are a company that feels very male adolescent and testosterone driven. The whole skull thing is embarrassing in 2023. They are litigious protectionist and should never be forgiven for the way they conned people with their Red mag media. I would like to think that there are some serious people at red r and d but their design attitude is so hit or miss and ill thought out that its hard to know if they are over ruled in some way. The owners like Land seem to know their customers well And they seem capable at times of intellectually understanding filmmaking or cameras or sensor technology but that all seems to go out the window the minute they speak and all we hear is self congratulatory rad and awesome. The fact that they surround themselves with so many nodding acolytes whose vocabulary is even more challenged is a sign of something we see all too often when something just needs to be hyped. If you were buying a car from these guys and asked about the safety features or energy efficiency of the car they would likely say hey dude don’t worry you’re gonna love it its so rad. ?? That said i use Red cameras and have a Komodo amongst other cameras. I want to love it but have always understood its compromises. Ironically i have it not because of Red the brand or how cool it is to have a Red but simply because of its specs and design when compared to other cameras in the space. I would have chosen a kinefinity any day but for their own inadequacies as company and their inability to align to a raw format and we all know why that was an issue. In reality there are so many great films shot on the Red camera system that it cant be all bad but at what cost. Red arent the only issue and its a systemic problem. How companies like blackmagic give free software away that is so technically featured yet we have a subscription service for the rest of our lives with Adobe. Its a madness we just suck up. Any company that essentially powers the panavision dxl2 or has users like Soderbergh and Fincher cant be all bad but to me they are the Donald Trump of cameras. Wholly predictable and a product of our times. A necessary evil that helps expose the systemic corruption and closed world of politics. Dont get me wrong with the exception of Charles and Ray Eames product design has largely been shockingly bad. There are a few companies namely Arri who get close to these high standards but others get lost among board meetings and decisions that reflect marketing compromises and practicalities of manufacturing that explain the designs we get. That all said life is often a series of compromises and negotiations and why should we expect the camera world to be any different. People often site Apple as the bastions and benchmark of outstanding design. They would be wrong. In the same way that the perfect camera exists, and of course it could, there are so many examples of amazing creativity and industrial design coming together to produce simply stunning products, in architecture and the build world. Hopefully soon this ridiculously expensive inefficient resource intensive and wasteful process of making images will be replaced by AI but for now we all have to recognise the imperfections of technologies and processes that are essentially over a hundred years old. Does anyone remember when the click of a shutter button replaced the technique of a dutch master to make a meaningful image. We are living in the world of horse drawn cameras and filmmaking when quantum computing is a reality. Soon. 10 years at most. Meanwhile thanks so much for the conversation of two genuinely nice people talking about what they love.
Why did y’all take so long to talk about the red? So disappointing
Unsubbed.
@@16Stops I love the channel I’m just a straight forward person that’s all… next video can u please put time stamps?