Aussie MX1 Motocross Champion gives his honest thoughts about the modern 450 - Gypsy Tales
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 07. 2021
- During the podcast with Australian MX1 Champion Todd Waters we got onto the subject of transitioning from at 250 to 450... Todd was very articulate in describing a day he had back to back testing a 250 and a 450 and even he was shocked at the way he felt.
...
Todd Waters is the current Australian 450 Motocross Champion and one of my oldest mates. It's been around 12 months since Todd was last on the podcast and after a crazy 2020 where Todd had to restructure his whole life there was a whole lot to talk about. Starting a gear company, running a full blown workshop, having a newborn baby and racing the off-road championship on top of racing motocross.
LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST:
iTunes: podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast...
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/4VYS...
SPONSORS:
MANSCAPED: www.manscaped.com
Get 20% Off + Free Shipping, with the code GYPSYGANG
KRUSHOZ: www.krushoz.com
DriTimes: www.dritimes.com
RIVAL INK: www.rivalinkdesignco.com - CODE: GYPSYGANG 15%
MXSTORE: www.mxstore.com.au
CRICKS TWEED: www.crickstweed.com.au
FIST HANDWEAR: www.fisthandwear.com - CODE: GYPSYGANG 15%
DIXXON: www.dixxonquality.com.au - CODE: GYPSYGANG 15%
BOOST MOBILE: www.boost.com.au
Wear Gypsy Tales Merch ► gypsy-tales.com/
SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST ► / @gypsytalespodcast9369
ADD GYPSY TALES ON INSTAGRAM ► gypsytalesp...
LISTEN ON:
ITUNES:podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast...
SPOTIFY: open.spotify.com/episode/3WaB...
ADD ME ON:
INSTAGRAM: jasemacalpi...
TWITTER: jasemacalpine?lan...
I ride a 250 because I can ride it faster than a 450. I always tell people it's better to ride a slower bike really fast than ride a fast bike slower. Everybody thinks they NEED a 450, but if you can't ride a 250 fast and efficient a 450 will only hurt your technique and make you slower🤘🇺🇲
Me riding a 650 since i got it cheap: i caaaaaanttttt heeeeaaar yoooou
I’d trade my 450 for a 250 tomorrow
I got this lesson the hard way. Used to have a 200 2 stroke and loved it. Went on a 125 and was FLYING which made me realize that's what I needed
That's why I got rid of my wr450f and bought my simple, slow as fck AJP PR4. 233cc, 2 valves, air/oil cooled. Much more fun. Learned a lot!
@@thealvaco and I bet you can ride the smaller bike a lot faster and be way more aggressive on it. 💪🇺🇲
Always nice to hear a pro actually say a 450 is practically useless. They are good for guys that just want to lug around a track or cruise faster trails, but 250 and 350 is a way better race bike. I'd way rather watch the top guys going bananas on the slower bikes. It makes for better racing.
“Yeah bhuutttt” 👌🏼 healthy convo
Hahaha.
250 2 stroke for me these days. Ever since i put race tech suspension on my 97 kx250 i dont even bother with anything else. Throwing your leg over a 90s 2 stroke and running with the 2t ktms and yz's keeps things interesting
Bro i just had race tech valve and spring my 05 crf450r @fenixsuspension and it's incredible
@@luckyseven6402still running strong I hope
@@jackreacher2095 100% I'll never go back to stock that's for sure
I ride a 450 from 2006, and I love that 1, I stay pretty low on the rpm’s and that makes engines last a lot longer, and the power delivery is really chill and easy to control compared to modern 450’s.
I loved my 2006 kx450. Was pretty strong and handled great (from what I recall) but the new FI 450s have a lot of tuning potential that can be set up for any type of riding. Plus the power is just next level unless you want to tame it for woods riding or tracks.
Can’t remember who said it but “450s are easy to ride, but hard to race” is a good quote.
I’m a 225+ guy that raced A class in US and I can ride the same lap times on a 250 most tracks. I personally love 450s though for all the reasons people hate them. It’s more challenging to go fast on a 450 (consistently) than just send it on a 250.
I do think 350s could be the way but I think the real fix now is making it more socially acceptable and normal to DE-TUNE the bikes for novice/intermediate riders. Push that.!! Find better ways to handle the 450 because the motor is too versatile for the manufacturers to change now. MO
Make them run fully stock motors and somehow get the weight down a bit?
That's not hard to achieve nowadays. You can put a very soft map in them.
For a guy that just rides track for fun I enjoy a 450 much more then a 250 because it’s less work.
The problem is there are not a bunch of open 450 factory spots in the US or Europe and your chances of getting one of those rides without a 250 title in that particular series is slim to none.
The 450 engine is one of the most versatile engines ever produced. It is competitive in off road racing from Dakar to MX and everything in between. It is used in street legal supermoto/dual sport models, as well.
Yep. Everyone looks at the 250 vs 450 thing as if everyone is under 160lbs, only rides the track and never does any desert riding, hill climbing or even dual sport. Plus, if they are talking MXGP 450s, they even have more power (allowed by rules) than a full factory USA 450. It’s probably 10+ HP more than a bone stock 450. Seems like this issue gets more and more talk, especially when SX tracks are really tight and maybe because the bikes keep getting more HP. Maybe before they throw it all away and go to 350, there should be a rule where the motors are fully stock. Motor has to be pulled off the assembly line and sealed. We know that US factory motors are much less “works” bikes than the international bikes and the old bikes, but we also know that there is a little wiggle room and the motor will produce more HP than one that we buy off the showroom floor. It never seemed to be talked about at the same frequency when Bubba and Ricky were around. Are new 450s really that much more powerful? (I thought that the HP is around 5 more now than Rickys days? But I guess they are also probably getting heavier with electric start as well)
Actually, the problem is that 95% of us, the consumers who buy the product, can barely hold onto the things in an MX environment. It just plain isn't fun. If there's no fun, what's the point? I think there's a big argument to be made for 350 4Ts and 2Ts in general.
In the pacific NW 450 T are a no show. Overheating, overweight tanks vs 250 2T. The Japanese handed the market to ktm when they went 4T.
What they need is 300 to 350 4T with the pro class as it is now for engine mods. The support class is stock cam profile, stock throttle body, and a rev limiter for reliability. It is basically too difficult to use sealed motors. The support class would get a 2 mm overbore to keep power close to the pro bikes.
This would make track layout much better. As it is, 250s are struggling to clear gaps which 450 are overjumping.
@@KosmicHRTRacingTeam The MXGP bikes aren't putting out 10hp more than stock. All the work the teams put into the motors is power band/delivery related and for endurance! in 450s HP doesn't win championships.......but engine failures sure can lose them!
@@mxcoolman would be interested to know how much HP more the MXGP bikes put out than stock. When Herlings came to do the MX outdoor race a few days ago and hoped on the KTM bike that is AMA legal, he seemed to indicate that there was a bit of difference and we also know that those bikes are faster than what someone buys off the showroom. We see a 5-7 HP difference just in the different brands of stock 450, so wouldn’t think it be that unreasonable to see a 10 hp jump from bone stock to full works MXGP. Which is why I mention running fully stock motors. I have an older 2005 CRF450R that some people run a 400cc de-bore kit on and supposedly it makes the bike much easier to ride, less engine rotating inertia, makes it easier to turn, brake, handle the power, etc. but like I mentioned, I don’t remember all the guys like Ricky and Bubba complaining about the 450s back in the day (especially in outdoors). So is it the HP has gotten that much more or is it the bikes are that much heavier (I know the stock bikes are much heavier, with e start, etc….but not sure what the difference is on factory bikes back then vs now)?
In my heydey guys like Lechien and Ward and a few others factory guys regularly raced 125's, 250's AND 500's in one season. Between Supercross, Nationals, USGP, and MXDN's, these dudes were effective in transitioning.
Amen! How would this generation of riders be able to handle a beast 500cc two stroke?
Factssss. And guys back in the day used to win 500 classes on 250s….. Def not all about power…
@@user-fu2qc6cv7b 450s are more powerful btw
I’m sure SOME would get used to the light switch power delivery of older 2-stroke 500’s, but many newer riders would just have to relearn how to ride period!
i am 46, grew up racing smokers and started on none adjustable double twangers (before mono shock or floating swing arms) with drum brakes, flat seats etc, moved through ktm when they were white and hated, had 84 yz, 86 CR, 90 CR, 94 KX and many more- i love my 450 sxf and would not change it for the world.
i really have come to love what your generation was able to pump out as far ass dirt bike tech , and those old 2 strokes are so simple , have to really appreciate the engineering
I had a 74 yz, it had the twin shock on the rear wheel. Your 84 yz was a monoshock. The first year of the monoshock was 76 for Yamaha.
What a champ..looking for more of the podcast!! Great stuff again jas aswell
Need more chats with this legend. Need more Mecca's run stories 🤣🤣🤣.
This is a great listen, Todd's a bloody unit.
Big thanks to Todd for holding a coaching clinic at the Edmo moto track circa 2006/07 even when busted up. The knowledge both Todd and Glen Bell freely gave, helpes me ride safer, faster and more enjoyable. Big cheers and forever grateful. Love the look of the TDub gear and ordering a jersey for MTB use.
Absolutely nothing better than to watching the best in world ride 450s
Haven't ridden since I was 12. Had a Honda xr80 and I loved that thing. Cant imagine jumping on a 450 let alone a 250.
Need to start living again
The amount of “yeah, like”s in this is awesome! Loved this discussion 👍🏼
The beauty of growing up dero in aus.
Anything that jett has done Seals the deal for gypsy 🤣
Righhht its cringe in a way but at the same time ausi boys gotta stick together
Todd is awesome 👍 Thnx Gypsy 😁
Roger Decoster plucked Micky Dymond from the 500 class to race HRC 125. Resulted in 2 national championships.
Love these clips.
Does everyone forget how Cairoli won the MXGP championship on a 350?
350s are the best way to go
350’s rev way higher than a 450 and have nearly as much power and is a little lighter. Better advantage
@@chazzgonzalez1356 not on starts
@@caydenthompson126 3rd gear rev limiter
Tony and Jeffrey dominated the MXON in Lommel in 2012 on 350's ;)
The world of motocross needs to return to two-strokes. And the industry knows it. 125/250/500, or 150/250/400
I agree. I’ve never owned a modern 4 stroke for very long because I feared the cost of a rebuild. Plus they feel tanky.
Why
@@benandjordanlol ...simplicity. Teams are better off financially as is the grass roots owner. Keep it simple.
i wonder how a Honda cr250 95 model would do against a modern 450 on a track. Imo thats one of the best years for 2 stroke Honda 250s.
no need to go bigger than a 250 with 2 strokes man (MX1), 125 is the 250F equivalent (MX2)
Two strokes all day every day babyyyyyy
Hell yeah im with you on that one!!
500000 mega fonzies!!
No doubt
I hope there's 2 strokes in heaven 🙏 love them smoker's
I got a 450 race bike and I don’t use it for racing just trail stuff and let me tell you it’s a lot more bike than I need most of the time but when I need to send it up a 75° put wall or do wheelies in 5th gear I thank god I got the 450.
Masterpiece Presentation
We need a true Open class, no requirements other then two wheels....
I think maybe a minimum weight, 1 it gives smaller teams a chance to compete and 2 it also directs the tech into something that can trickle down to regular consumers.
@@ian9toes With the risk that prices of bikes go up even more...
jelly72
How so and what do you propose?
Open class … big bore two-strokes.
catch me racing a segway in the true open class
Tomac on a 250 was almost always faster lap times than the 450s. I have said from day one of him moving up that needed to stay on a 250 but bore and stroke it a little.
Anyone remember when Stefan Everts won both mx1 and mx2 on the same day? xD
He did that for a whole season :)
And villapoto won mxon on a 250
Bk in 90s bro....
@@Davido50 Still impressive. I don't get how you people don't credit that stuff. Are we not going to credit people from now when we are in the 2050's? It doesn't make any since. 90s guys were fast asf for there time
For real!? Can you post a link?
This Dude has been through hell..i hope ya back on top soon!
The thing i miss is the pro riders who could keep a bike on the pipe through a tricky section and what made it awesome was we knew their ability to ride the bike on the razors edge of power was the only way they could pull off those moves.
Great stuff Jase
Todd Waters you bloody legend!
What's a *2-Stroke* time period but *Chad Reed* had similar opinions since you left *Australia* as a *250* champ raced *250* in *Europe* but when he came to *America* the team he signed with said he had to ride the *125* he didn't want to go back down but oddly enough he raced a *250 4-Stroke* in the *125* class one *SX* season in *02* won every race but *1* before jumping up to the *250 2-Stroke* taking on *Ricky Carmichael*
Love your vids bro
This is why a 250 is perfect for the weekend warrior.
350*
@@metalgiant36 That's right!
I'm due for a new bike, I have a 14 CRF250. And I keep asking myself, would I actually be faster on a 450? I only race club events and we have rounds where there's maybe only 7 riders each in 250 and 450 so they put us together and I find myself running with and down 450 riders. Cause I can see they aren't aggressive and I take advantage of that. It's a lot of work but I'm used to riding like this and I think sometimes if I go 450 can I even be bothered learning how to ride again cause theure completely different riding styles. I dont wanna ride a 450 and it's not fun anymore
@@danepjevac8832 450 is amazing power but really heavy takes a-lot more strength and fitness to ride full motos at any level i made the mistake and got one, i have learnt over 15 years of mx riding that suspension is most important way more than power, followed by tyre choice and sprockets makes so much difference and doesn’t cost the earth.
@@collier128hotass I've ridden a mates 16 CRF450 which had B-kit suspension on it and was somewhat comfy on it cause it the same chassis as my 14 250R. I didn't find the power pulling my arms off, but felt the weight when tipping it in a rut and it's almost like it had more traction in a way. The extra weight almost felt better going over braking bumps. I didn't know how to use the power if that makes sense. Also I didn't find a fitness issue too much cause I was in good form at the time and didn't have to use heaps of energy overworking the bike like a 250. Power sorta made up for a mistake in a way. It's just crud you gotta fork out the dollars before you find out if you made a mistake buying a bike or not haha. And yeah dude changing sprockets would be first thing on my mind
The biggest issue I have with the new 4-strokes is the overall maintenance regime. The maintenance cost is astronomical compared to the 2-strokes.
My 1998 YZ250 2-stroke with the Noleen pipe and shorty silencer was an absolute beast. It had a very smooth powerband with a ton of low-end torque.
There was nothing I would have changed on that bike and would rather ride that than ANY current 4 stroke on the market.
I can bet you the maintenance required for your 1998 bike is astronomical compared to a early 80’s bike. It’s just the march of technology.
@Theread 34 while I owned my 98, I did a top end halfway through the season, and at the end of each season. Changed the suspension oil and nitrogen (rear). Raced most weekends, some riding during the week.
Performed the labor myself, never thought it was that bad. I just feel like a top end, cam chain, and can gears on a YZ250f every 14 hours is a little out of hand.
The 4 stroke is only as potent as the 2 strokes due to high compression, titanium parts, and ridiculous maintenance schedules.
My 98 WR400F is street legal and has needed a piston, a couple clutches and oil changes.
My 2019 WR250R requires a valve adjustment every 26000 miles, but that's a different 250cc 4-stroke design than the YZ250F.
The thing is, when the 4-stroke MX bikes came out, the longevity was a selling point. In the beginning it was, however as the performance was increased the titanium parts, higher compression, electric start only and lithium ion batteries came in....increasing regular maintenance costs even further over the addition of cams, applicable bearings, 7-9 hour valve adjustments, more electrical components adding to the overall complexity. An empty YZ250F head is $1200....then you need valves, guides, deals, keepers, bearings, cam chain, cam chain sprockets. Price that out compared to a 2-stroke YZ250 head....back in 1998 you could send your motor out for $1200-$1400 and Noleen or Pro Circuit, etc. would build and port your motor.
American motocross looking great in the big boy class 450 !
I'm a very novice mx rider. I've had both this past year and I sold the yz250f because it was going to need a rebuild soon. Bought a new 2019 yz450f because some track buddies said the yz450f would be easier for me as an older novice and less maintenance. I was able to detune for a while, and that helped. It did scare me, and I could not get comfortable with it for a number of rides. I did get use to it, constantly tell myself to stay ahead of it.. Now I'm wondering if the 450 experience will make me better on a 250. I think the only way the 450 was doable for me was that I ride in heavy sand. My one ride in hard pack was painful as the rolling resistance disappeared and I crashed hard. They are all good and can be perfect depending on where you're riding that day. If I were out west blasting huge sand dunes, yz450f would be funner. For me, older novice mxer and trail rider here in Florida and sometimes on trips, i will go back to 250, way more versatile bike for more types of riding IMO, especially technical trails. The 450 stalls all the time in tight stuff. I might still try to experiment and tune it for trails and soften the suspension. On tracks I have to admit the 450 torque does get me over jumps when my corner speed has been weak but i am thinking now that i would corner better on a 250. If I had to pick now, yz250f. Less weight is always better as well and I'm 5'10, 165 so yz250f is plenty. If I were over 200+, i may think differently. Now that I've done both, I would advise pretty much everyone debating 250/450 to go 250. Especially since the new 250's weigh less and are so powerful.
"Yeah but it's riding a bike" nailed it with that comment so much of it is skill. It's not going backwards at all there's only so much power you can use and if you've ever raced any road courses that becomes very clear when 400s pass litre bikes.
I got a 07YZ250F, ill keep rebuilding this thing for years. I'm a weekend warrior I'll never race so this is perfect for me
A 250 2 stroke is soooo much cheaper to own
I prefer 4 strokes, and rode a 250 for a long while. However, I'm a larger guy, only 5'10, but I'm 280-300lbs, so I feel like I need a 450 to carry my weight around?
Some great examples there Tdub
Waters is a fuckin good listen .
I`ve watch these over and over again... `
I race 2001 Cr250 30+ A/B and looking to replace with 22’ yz250. Raced my dads 22’ crf 450 granted I didn’t have a lot of time on it but racing it I felt like a squid. Get on the 2 smoke and feel like an animal 🤙
I had a 98yz250, and that bike was more scary than my gsxr750, my friends cr450f, and any other 2 stroke i grew up on hahaha
Good to hear riders talking about Rocky events.
Don't the lites bikes race with the 450s in the Des Nations races? I thought I saw Prado on a 250 beating guys on 450s? I don't know am I wrong?
Deja vu... Open Class Bikes
Back in the 2 stroke 500cc days, the 250s were faster and easier to ride. Only a handful like DeCoster, Lackey, and a few others mastered too much power. Open class 500s died.
The switch to 450cc 4T Open bikes. No Surprise, only a handful master too much power. Years of RC, Stewart, and Reed way out front of the other riders. Then the Ryan's, Tomac and Roczen dominate. Now, after a decade of making Open Bikes the standard, more top riders are adapting. The choice isn't 125, 250, or 500. It's 250 or 450. We have twice as many capable Open riders. Yet you have a MX1 champ saying he is faster on the 250.
Malcolm won a 250 SX title and still didn't get a 450 ride. Fonseca wanted to go 450 for years. It's business.
Yep, 125s even easier. 250s were fun though. Probably the reason 500s dissapeared, no one could race them.
Different generations bikes are good or bad. My 07 rmz 450 hit so hard and with the 4 speed it was mental. Felt fast but harder to ride. Myb2012 ktm 450 had more power. Was faster and so much smoother and easier to ride. They keep making faster bikes easier to ride.
Just waiting on that yz350f comes out😤
I think open laps without traffic the modern 250 is just as fast as the 450 on most track... the difference is a 450 you can go outside the main line to pass/ block pass then use the 450 power to make up for leaving the main line. but if you have no one in your way and both bike are riding main line 250 lap times basically match 450 lap times
I love my YZ250F but it needs 6 gears to be perfect.
It has plenty of power but I'm always reaching for another gear on a fire road
Yamaha should release a YZ250F with wide ratio 6 speed box. They should call it the WR for Wide Ratio. WR250F has a nice ring to it?
@@tosgem nah that wouldn't work because they would change the power delivery, make the suspension softer, and also make the gear ratio wider. Which isn't what I want for my MX bike that I occasionally take on the trails.
It just needs a 6th gear like 125's have. Then it would be perfect.
They've made Kawi 450's with only 4 speeds and they were awesome! A-class rider speaking too, not some C-class spode either.
@@RVmotoTravel 2006 , kawasaki's first 450 was a 4 speed , I own one and it was a beast, blew it up and it was cheaper to buy a new kx 450 in 2018 . The 18 was smoother and easier to ride than the old beast .
I’ve been saying this, it looks like 450 guys are not having to ride with as much skill, whereas it looks like 125 guys are really showing skill and riding it hard
Has anyone tried racing 450 class on something that was around 300-350cc's? Thread the needle on usable power?
I've never ridden a 450 and I'm not a racer but my 2016 Honda CRF250R is scary fast, I don't even understand how you could use more power.
He simply was describing a 250 and 450 with different suspension settings... easy as that
Clouty got 5th in a us sx on a 250 in 2020. He needs to go back to us and race
On the one hand, modern 450s make enough power in stock form to be competitive, example Chiz making almost every main on a stock engine running pump gas in supercross. On the other hand, for the average guy they’re probably too much. I’m a decent rider, and I’m faster on a 250 than a 450 on everything except deep tilled dirt and sand.
Where are you from? Jw
Deep tilled dirt is all ik😂😂
At Washougal, the fastest lap times were in the 2:14 range for both classes (except for the alien Tomac, he ran a record 2:13)
The 450 guys run a rougher track, since they go second. Also usually bigger guys.
@@KosmicHRTRacingTeam Millville they ran 1st and have ya seen Cooper Webb?
@@reddawn1487 yup. And Melville isn’t Washougal and the times reflect that. Moto 1 the top 250 guys were around 1.5-2 sec off the 450. And moto 2 they were more like 3+ seconds off. I typically pay attention to this stuff, for reference, the times are usually closer in SX than MX. usually
"In the 250's there's girlfriends..." lol Forkner man.....need to get back to focusing on himself
Yeah he's what, like 23... Dude.. difficult time to focus on a career with flange waiting back in the trailer.
Sad truth is forkner would of been had a chip had he never got hurt like he does
@@jonsnow178 the lack of training and focus he would have had being single could have prevented injury. You never know
Fork is looking like he’s done. Ken got ten
Dont know who crashes their brains out more Forkner or Macadoo lol
I want either a 125 2stoke or a 250 4 stroke, I don’t think I could ever ride a 450
KTM 150!
Why ryno made the argument to ditch 450s an make 350s
I ride a 150 2-stroke, a 450 4-stroke and a 350 4-stroke. They each have their area of strength. 350 is my favourite unless I want to feel like a hero and race the 150.
Yz 250, yz250f or yz125 for a beginner??
Christian Craig has been going back and forth on 250 and 450
The 4-strokes are pretty bad ass I think just require strick maintenance schedules to keep from having rebuilds frequently etc
Its really not as bad as people think. 1-2 yearly services, and 1 valve check per weekend of riding isnt that bad at all
Read what you just wrote, just very very slowly
@@Shadow0fd3ath24 that sounds terrible.
@@bloomerb4162 you sound lazy
At supercross last weekend the 250s almost looked faster on the track and we’re more enjoyable too at h them race as well. It seemed that there was a lot more of riders battling each other rather than the bikes
I remember buying my first real dirt bike in 1981, and wanting a KDX-200(to ride Washington state woods), but my friends talked me into a CR-450 Elsinore. What an idiot! 4 speed transmission, left hand kick, shit tons of power(if you had the room) and stalled easy, but hard to start. ARRRRGH!! 6 frustrating rides and I sold it. Luckily it was on sale from $2,200 down to $1,600, and I only lost $100 when I sold it. I got the KDX-200 and was so much faster, and actually was able to learn how to ride. Live and learn.
I spent the weekend on a ktm200 2 stroke. So fukn fun. Less can be more.
That bike is incredible. Much easier to ride than a 125 and it will never get away from you. Had an 09 brand new. It was amazing.
@@CuzZ_Lightyear I have an 09 300EXC as well. I'm much faster through the single trail on the 200... at least I sound much faster. 😁
@@leevancleef553 I used to have a ktm 500sx. That was a killer. Mostly because of the terrible throttle bog that could get you in trouble. Always felt fast on that thing haha
Slower is smooth and smooth is fast
Man, have you seen his calf muscles man? There like solid! Lol
What the deal with 350 then seam like they not used much at top level
Live to hear a good reason especially after the 250 450 lap time thing
All about the start... Caroli won a bunch of titles on a 350 in Europe, but guys don't want to give anything away on the starts.
Yer i was looking before to see if cood find enough for sum1 on them and coodent
So still not replacement for displacement a well on start funny part with start 250 at mxgp still pull hole shots at times
Maby it the head game
And it all head game
Cheers man
Bring back the XR400, I just got one used and they are such a perfect middle ground. Although I have no idea how they’d do in MX but I can’t imagine it not getting figured out.
Look up old Motocross action and Dirt Rider articles from the mid-1990's, there were several about converting the xr400 for motocross before Yamaha revealed their YZ400f to the world
To heavy, slow and ill handling, spend 12000$ to make one stay with a 10000$ 450.
To heavy, slow and ill handling, spend 12000$ to make one stay with a 10000$ 450.
I've ridden a xr600 that had the cilindre swapped to 650 and bigeer carb. That vas a real beast, the front just flotted like a jetski
@@johnbabb1138 not made for MX for sure...
Too me it sounds like he's more akin to the old school full talent pro classes. You should race the bike you're best on. Some people are unbelievable on a 125 but wouldn't be anything on an open bike. Vice versa. Some people are just better fits for different bikes
Didn’t Ferrandis have his 450 detuned so it would be easier to ride faster?
Not quite. When Star took over the 450 Yamaha program their main focus was getting as much horsepower out of the engine as possible. When they achieved that they then focused on making that power actually usable because it doesn’t matter if you have the most power, if the bike is just trying to rip the bar out of your hands you’re not gonna be fast. That is what Ferrandis did.
Maxime Rénaux was world champion on 250 and in his first year in 450, he is top 5 at every race…
Agree with Waters on this one, if you can ride a 450F at a high level you can ride the **** out of a 250F and carry more corner speed.
Didnt #89 smoke every body at the mxon at maggiore in mx2
I raced hare scrambles in Florida back in the day. I was far faster in the woods on a my 125 than I was on a 250 or 450. The 450 was unmanageable and dangerous. Granted I rode a friends bikes to check them out and didn't really give it time to get used to it, but I was no where near as fast and I wasn't having anywhere near as much fun. Fun is why 99% of us do it anyways. Woods racing is a different animal compared to MX tho...
When I was 17 I bought a 05 Honda 450 . Couldn’t figure out how my buddies could ride so much faster so much longer almost looked like they were having … fun? . I sold that bike and had ridden in years . One weekend In invited to a track day in the woods at some guys house I’d never been . Toss a leg over a brand new 2015 yz250f . It was incredible, the bike was doing everything I wanted it to and more . I was more confident and in control the first lap on that bike than I’d ever been on my old bike that I was riding all the time . Made me wish I had a 250 back then.
I met a gypsy!!!
Just picked up a 2021 KTM 250 thumper. It’s AMAZING. Next time you’re in the Midwest Jase, There is a bad ass Moto track near my house, less than 45 minutes south of redbud. It’s a freakin compound. It’s called MotoLand, in Kingsbury Indiana. Look it up. If you need anywhere to store some bikes for free while visiting, I’ve got the space. Find me on Facebook if you’re ever in the area.
I live in Indy and I was wondering if it was worth the drive to head up there. I’m not very good but I definitely want some better tracks than what is at Badlands Off-road Park and Haspin Acres down here near Indy. How often are they open? It seems like the nicer tracks in Indiana are only open a few weekends a year
@@Tcurry04. 10-15 years ago. No. Not worth it. 2021? A whole different story. It is a freaking Paradise. When I say compound. I mean it. 4 or 5 different tracks. It is always perfectly groomed and maintained. It’s great man. The only downside is they are closed for this year, some personal stuff is going on with the owners. But they WILL be open for 2022. Find me on Facebook. I’ll link up with you and we can go riding there next spring.
@@Tcurry04 and before the pandemic, they were open 3-4 weekends every month, with a weekday or two mixed in there. The pricing isn’t bad at all.
LOVE Motoland and all of the tracks we have in northern IN and Michigan! Great for 450's.
Back in AMA MX in the usa the 250 2 stroke class was all multi time champians same deal 10 guys and forget trying count LORRETAS am titles....
I definitely believe it comes down to the track aswell, the useable power on a 450 on Aussie tracks for example is nearly non existent. Exactly like he said about rocky and for a guy like Todd who is so smooth on a 450 the tracks are to tight to make use of any of that power. You put any of the top aussie 450 riders on an AMA track yes they probably will ride the 450 better, unless you can make use of a 450’s power and have the ability to ride smooth a 250 will be better for any rider
Have a guest and talk over him the entire time?....wtf is the point of having someone else-just talk to yourself and save this dude the trouble
Dudes stoned.
The host is starting to turn to a jackass. He think he knows it all.
@@LuckyNikitaBoba agreed..some of his older interviews were alright but lately its just him talking over people..
@@LuckyNikitaBoba i think they call them brogans, or bogans.
Yeah
Yep
Didn’t Christian Craig go back to 250 from 450 ?
Several guys from America have gone back down. Look up Steve Lamson. Also recently Josh Hill and Josh Hansen
Yeah, it's because star Yamaha believes CC can win a 250 supercross championship, otherwise, he would be 450 full time. He will be going back to 250 this next supercross season as well
Champions win on anything. Back in the day, people often went from 250 to 125 or 500 to 125 and vice versa. Yeah they are all different, but you've ridden them all so it doesn't matter. In the race, your usually all on the same size bike, the best rider wins. Reed won in Aus. On 250s, then went to US on a 125, proved himself then went back on the 250.
Agreed. Shane Watts won on every bike model made by KTM in his glory days.
On a MX track i'm quicker on 250 but trail riding the 450 seems to get me out of trouble easier. I'm 75 kgs and have always prefered the 250 and loved copping shit about the 250 from mates on 450's when we go on rides and then play with them before i dissapear ahead of them accept on the beach or big straights they roost me.
.
I’m 135 pounds and can ride a 450 the same as one would ride a 125 it’s called know the bike not the motor power is there when you want it period a lighter bike also helps to a point
Built Honda cr500 af is the way to go.
Hoping that is my next bike TBH
Fuck I love Todd such a good bloke
350’s are where it’s at. I want a Japanese 350.
Let’s make 350’s the norm for big bore class!!! Come on japan!!!!
2 strokes are infinitely more interesting to watch than a sluggish looking and sounding 4 stroke.
10000 percent true. Why i don't watch racing anymore. Not to mention allowing 450s to race in 250 class, as well as bullshit fuel rule changes that stop high compression 2 strokes. Lol 4 strokes suck
You guys know they only raced modern 2 strokes from 81-98 and 4 strokes have been racing from 98-2021 we’ve been running these longer stop living in the past.
@@jonruger It takes a lot more skill to keep a 250 in the band than to go pay an extra 3k for an easy power onset
@@maesonfrymire5623 not true it takes a lot more skill to ride a significantly more powerful bike fast and safe. This two stroke take more skill shit also needs to die like I said before the four stroke era is longer now for a reason time to get used to it. I actually grew up in the 80s and 90s when 2 strokes were basically all there was all you kids that think this way don’t understand how much things changed in 98 and it was all for the better. Today’s 450s are essentially the open class of my day 250 is 250 again and there is no true 125 it takes a lot more skill to control open class bikes that’s why very few actually raced them back in the day.
@@maesonfrymire5623 and that’s exactly what he’s saying here it’s wild that the premier class now was the very dangerous and sometimes deadly open class of the past. He’s not knocking 4 strokes he is saying they are faster than they should be which I agree with to some extent.
Wish we had 2banger with the 4 strokes
450 in the desert or dunes is the only reason i have one
I agree u should get on the 450 till its time put your effort in to the 250..becsuse it will spoil u...the 450
Christian Craig runs 250 during SX and 450 during MX
And gets beat regularly.
Im gonna motion for Pingree for president...i started on a 86 works honda in my first beginner race an it was suicidle fast with a works crankshaft that kicked my but because it just hit warp so easy i was not ready..so then i got a bunch of 125s...an could ride the bleep out of those...an that was important to just being on the attack all the time since i got off the 125cc 2 of them were basically pro circuit bike ridden by national number 37 that year.....they allowed me to just slam any size whoop...but the 125 or 250f bikes u haveto really be aggressive an thats the pro level norm....if u wanna be up front...an win motos....all my 125s had stage 3 motors my bike an then the 2 team RRP bikes i bought....i could blow by 250cc an 500cc 2 strokes....they actually DQ d me when someone figure out it was a 125cc 2 stroke....i was proud an bummed it was the best i ever rode....then i look an they crossed my name off...wtf..no love...whiners....BS big time....i realy felt no love...