Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins GASOLINE Engine WON'T REPLACE HEMI?? *Heavy Mechanic Review*
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- I Review the 6.7L Cummins Gasoline Octane Engine rumoured to be going into the Ram 2500 HD pick up trucks and replacing the longstanding 6.4L Hemi engine . I discuss 5 reasons why this new Cummins Gas engine would not be a great replacement in the Ram 2500 trucks for the 6.4L Hemi. starting with the massive weight and COST of these Gas cummins engines.
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Earlier in the week we talked about how this 6.7L cummins gas octane engine would potentially be a great fit for the Ram HD pick up trucks and replace the long standing 6.4L Hemi. Well today we are talking some of the reason why RAM may not want to use this 6.7L cummins GAsoline engine.
The first reason is simple. the weight. The weight of the diesel cummins engine is north of 1,000 pounds and well this gas engine is supposed to be very similar and could result in a very similar amount of weight. with the Ram 2500 trucks already being known for light payloads this would cripple the trucks even more having a very very heavy gas engine option.
Secondly the ram 2500 power wagons can't have the cummins gas engine in them because of the special soft suspension set up and so that would be something else Ram would have to deal with.
the second major reason why RAM would not want to use this cummins gas octane 6.7L engine is due to COST. this engine is going to be very similar to the diesel and well the diesel cummins is a $10,000 option so I don't think these Gas cummins engine are going to simply be handed over for cheap. they will also most likely be very expensive which is something I feel ram can't afford.
there ram HD trucks are already priced out of control and this would only make the sales numbers harder to bear having to jack up the gas engine prices another 10k.
the third issues with this cummins gas engine is the low Horsepower rating and low engine speed. this max HP rating is currently sitting at 325hp which is much lower then the 6.4L hemi and very low in comparison to the competition like the 7.3L godzilla from ford.
also is the max engine speed which on the dyno charts cummins released was only at 3,200 rpm which is very very low for a gas engine. all of which may make this engine feel sluggish and slow to respond.
the fourth concern of issues with this Gas cummins engine is fuel economy. I just can't see a large displacement, heavy rotating assembly turbo charged gas engine being very fuel efficient in a 8,000lbs pick up truck.
finally this engine is un-tested and yes it will be using the long standing and proven ISB 6.7L cummins diesel platform but there will be a good chunk of new components and a whole new fueling system as well as new ECU tuning and software all of which has not been proven yet in the real world.
Let me know what you guys think!
00:00 - Intro
01:31 - Too Heavy
03:44 - Too Expensive
05:50 - Low HorsePower/Low Engine Speed
08:58 - Fuel Economy
11:05 - UnTested Engine - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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When your tow’n a 10,000lb camper through the smokie mountains in TN it’s the torque you need
4.125" bore x4.75" stroke slant "6" , heck with Cummins, in house
I actually think this is a great Idea for ram. The 6.4 has always felt more like a “go fast” motor rather than a “pull heavy” one for me. Having the option of “diesel like” torque without the hassle of emissions sounds like a good deal for HD trucks. In my opinion, the 2500s should keep the hemi, and 3500+ get the gasser cummins. It would balance out the lineup very well.
I have a 2021 Ram 3500 6.4 hemi it's an amazing truck , pulls our 8000 lbs trailer like nothing 14k pulling and 4500 payload just love it
And 8 speed transmission it rocks
You can add aluminum parts and or composite parts
With a 2 speed rear end it would rock
Sounds interesting i quit diesel a few years ago after problem after problem. Gas burners pull good enough and much more reliable and better off road.
Cummins has had a natural gas version of the 6.7 I6 available in their generators for a long time.
The reason you cant get a diesel powerwagon is the winch mounts where the intercooler goes.
I really enjoy your content and how you present it. Good work!
Thank you sir!
I own a 6.7, if payload is a concern, skip the quad cab and get a long box.
The 5.0 cummins base engine wasn’t bad. The after treatment and Nissan emissions strategy killed it.
Likely to be a low rpm motor with wider torque band than the diesel. Possibility of getting better mileage on it, depends what youre pulling tho
A gasser that only revs out to 3200 rpm will probably last forever too, i could see it being a reliability beast
You have this Cummins 6.7 L diesels are pretty heavy motor so probably a similar gas engine would be about the same weight
I believe a Godzilla is in my future.
When light duty diesel trucks are outlawed people will be happy with the inline 6 gas motor
After all of these years, the old pushrod V8 is still competitive with power, mileage, and reliability 🤷♂️
Incredible show Getty have a great weekend 🥳👏
Thank you sir!
Kind of reminds me of the old Ford 300 inline 6. Reliable but slow as hell.
I was thinking the samething. I miss them.
If its bio diesel then it runs on both not bad its military grade like 1940 s Dues
I think this is cool! But what’s sad is this is probably a thing because the epa ruined the 6.7 diesel with all the emissions crap
Gas mpg plus premium fuel is going to be rough.
Thanks buddy
Lol I just finished installing one of those. I love them so simple
I own a 2022 Ram 2500 w 6.4 and super happy with performance. Debated a lot on staying with a diesel, so happy I went with 6.4 version. Actually, getting 18mpg , pulls my 35ft camper (10k lbs approx)with zero issues. As far as the new 6.7 Cummings gas engine , sounds like a waste of R&D time.
The 2 things that I didn't like about my 6.4: 1. Cylinder deactivation 2. Torque curve
Oh ya and what do you get while towing 3 mpg?
I was with this guy until he dogged a revolutionary NEW gas engine design with a turbocharger that's never been done before.
The new Cummins gas engine is going to absolutely blow away your natural aspirated V8 and everybody else's plus their mamas.
@phat-kw9ox actually just got back from Arizona and averaged 8.6mpg
@@Steve-ct6kwmy Ram 3500 HO cummins averages about the same. But when towing a 35ft diamond C fmax 212 with a mini-x and skid steer weighing about 25k total.
Hi Alex, greetings!
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. I think; if you load and/or tow heavy weights and also travel at least 20,000 miles a year; You can choose jn diesel. If your needs are recreation in the high mountains, adventure and being able to show off a high-capacity truck; You have the dream of many and reality of few. You can show off an incredible RAM POWER WAGON!! EXCELLENT JOB ALEX; Thanks for sharing!!
HUG!
The problem is that the only other option Ram has is the 3.0 liter Hurricane engine which would not a good fit for the 2500 and 3500 trucks so what will Stelantis do. Now yes the the Hurricane makes enough horsepower that’s not the problem, the problem starts when you start using it as a truck O don’t think it’s going to last long.
Let's get something straight. Torque get's things moving. Horsepower makes you go fast. Also a low rpm engine will outlast a screamer by far! Also, how much horsepower do you need to pull a heavy load or just travel down the road? Why do we need 3/4 and one ton race trucks? Remember, the more horsepower you have and use, the more gas you will burn. A low rpm torque engine will be more fuel efficient, period. So a torquey engine will not feel sluggish; the throttle response will make it feel very powerful. Back in the day i built a 400 Pontiac that had tremendous torque; it had smog heads and low compression; it would accelerate as fast uphill as it would on a level road and it would fry the tires yet it struggled to get to 100mph because it didn't have horsepower. It was a 4000 pound car that probably didn't make 300 horsepower but would haul ass!
Why not just make a 5.9 inline 6 gasser?
If Cummings had half a brain they would make it multi-fuel so anything can be pumped through it and that would make it universally appealing
In my life I have owned 3 Ford pickups with the 300 6. Awesome motor @ low RPM for pulling, getting firewood, and work in general. Always wished they kept making them.
This might make for a good bush truck for camping, hunting, and work.
We'll see. I could be totally wrong.
Abe,,, your not wrong, your absolutely right 👍
@@tcmits3699 thank you for your input
I own a 2005 Dodge, 3500, 4WD, SRW, quad cab, 8' 'bed, 3.91 axle, auto trans 5.9 Cummins (325hp 610 lb/ft torque)
Empty, city 14-16 mpg, hwy 65 mph 22 mpg, 70 mph 20+ mpg, 80 mph 17 mpg., 90+ mph 12+/- mpg. Wind and grade make noticeable differences. Other than engine weight gasser should move really well with 8 spd trans. Hope they make it a flex fuel, would like to see the numbers from E85 (which is like 102 octane) and turn the boost up massive.
Drove my supervisors 2006 2500 4WD, quad cab 6' bed 3.55 axle ratios 5.7 hemi
Didn't check mileage towing but less than 500lbs in bed not over bed height and not driving for mileage was about 10 mpg
I actually think there is a chance that Cummins gas engine might be more fuel efficient than your 6.4 hemi. It's a low revving engine tuned for torque. The numbers are setup for heavy duty commercial use. Not that any of these things are great on fuel.
I like the torque numbers and find most gas engines in heavy duty trucks to be weak.
I think this is a cool idea...
There is no replacement for displacement,go with good V8 naturally aspirated with good torque numbers😊
Look at that flat line on the dyno sheet, the aftermarket are gonna have a good time with this engine lol
The gas engine Ram has, the I6 turbo, is their take on the ford eco boost and that is the gas engine they will use. It's a pretty good option. Diesel Cummins isn't going anywhere for the HD trucks.
you can still get a hemi on the Ram classic.
Just completed a 1600 mile one way trip with an 9000# camper in high winds, through mountains, never used brakes, hardly felt it behind me except for 50mph cross winds. Steering box got a workout. Got 13-15mpg towing, got 25mph without trailer going back with 723 miles per tank.
What else would Ram use
I'll Stay with my 98 12v
If you look at the Cummins 6.7 Octane techinical datasheet, it doesn't appear to have an exhaust manifold, it looks to have a twin scroll turbine housing like the GM 2.7 4 cyl turbo. If they use an aluminum cylinder head, it would also drop some weight.
Maybe, they have 6.4L Hemi base, 6.7 Octane (since no more SO 6.7 diesel), then the HO 6.7 as the top option.
Some quick math from the Cummins tech sheets....620 flbs @ 2800 RPM equals 330.5-ish HP (top graph).
660 ftlbs @ 2800 RPM is 351.8-ish HP (bottom graph)
The top and bottom torque curves aren't quite the same out around 2600-2800 RPM....top graph is saying it drops from 660 at 2600, the bottom curve looks like 2,800 RPM. There is no way GM or Ford are going to have that kind of power down at those RPMs. As the Cummins sheet says, "Diesel-Like Performance."
Does Cummins make their own lifters? If you are getting a different lifter you are getting rid of the weakest link
Weight, reliability and price are my concerns but I'd possibly buy one.
I thought the power wagon was gas only because theres no room for an intercooler
Ok so why not have 2 options 6.7 gas for day the construction/ commercial side and and the hurricane with 400 plus hp for the people that want to tow the camper twice a year and drive to Tim’s… when I worked for dodge I was told those 6.7 were closer to 1400 pounds.. cheers!
All very good points. Especially given that Stellantis already has a straight six that can make about 500 hp; granted, I don’t know when that power comes in and what the weight on it is, but seems like it would be a good starting point (at least).
I think the average truck buyer wouldn’t notice their engine running at a lower speed. Most people I talk to don’t even know that their eco boost has turbos.
I pull a tool trailer with a vortec LS and it does like to rev up there. There are many people who don't want that constant revving when towing or the headaches of modern diesels and it seems this cummins gas addresses both issues. Seems like the gas version of a 12 valve, underwhelming at first, but hopefully reliable. maybe it will be popular as a crate engine. Need to get the 3500 though.
Unfortunately I think price will be an issue in large part due to where stellantis has been going in general. all of their vehicles are very expensive.
Take the DPF and DEF off your probably looking at about a 3k price increase over the current hemi and if it has the reliability Cummins is known for I don’t see it hurting things to much in 3500 and up trucks but that means they still need a replacement in the 2500
More accurately a little more than 1/2 a ton
Last video you said the hp rating was on their commercial side. All it takes is some tuning. They will just bump those numbers. Or even have two outputs like they have done since the 90s
I think we should all make our comments before we go to the bar.
I hope they remember to put spark plugs in it.... Cummins straight 6 diesels are reliable, it's when they tried something new that things didn't go well. The 5.0 V8 for the Titan XD didn't do so well.
Nope it didn’t
ahh yes the 5L lol not the brightest moment for cummins but hopefully they learned how not to make a V8 diesel moving forward.
It’s so sad Ram killed the 7.0 L Hemi. That would be a perfect fit. 😢
You knew about that? I heard almost 20 years ago they were planning on a 426 hemi too.
@@BloodAlwaysFindsItsLevel I think the news broke in 2019 they had killed the project. :(
Love that Cummins went the gasoline route, can’t wait to see it in production. I work hotshot with a gasoline motor and do just fine. I see this as an absolute win! #deathtodiesel
1800! I think my F 150 has more
It looks like someone doesn't understand the difference between how a v8 and i6 make their power.
Average buyers are stupid.to wise people that 325 hp gas makes sense.
You were talking about cargo capacity of the 3/4 ton Trucks. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the power wagon has less cargo capacity than the regular 3/4 ton as it is designed as an off road vehicle with different suspension??
They can put an aluminum head on the gas engine..that would shed more weight
It will be a DOHC 24V aluminum head rear gear train. There's specs. out on the engine already
I still believe it would be a winner.
1. Payload? Would be same or tad more than diesel
2. Weight? Same as diesel so all same as now
3. No DEF crap? That is a major benefit
4. Price? Would be an issue but may be overlooked
5. Performance? Main issue
IMHO
I would gladly buy a 660lbs ft torque gasoline that rev’d to 3200rpm. 20% reduced fuel price per gallon. The HP will stay low, because the rpm is low. The torque is the number that matters. One of the worst issues going from diesel to gas v-8 is the high raving noise. Maybe this inline 6.7 low rev gas engine will help with that, I hope they make it
A low H P and high torque straight six goes back decades in the auto industry, and things were simpler then. I can’t see a transmission with the correct gearing in the current light truck market. Secondly the School bus industry lives off simplicity and commonality. Cummins will have an edge there I think. Lastly a lower cost gas option in specialty and utility trucks that haul more weight at slower road speeds is a win if they can pull the pricing off. In the end the average consumer gets no advantage here and or relief from truck prices.
Price would be significantly less expensive than diesel with the def and emissions systems.
Id drop my hemi in a heartbeat for a cummins gas.
They could make the block entirely of aluminium.
What’s that, 30% less mass
Chain drive instead of heavy gears. More mass loss.
Maybe split the mass difference btwn HEMI and diesel
It would make sense but it sort of contradicts what cummins is trying to do by using the same base engine to save money on production. if they have to make a different block and different internals I can't really see that happening.
The loss of rotating mass would negatively impact the torque they’re achieving and the added robustness of gear driven timing is one of the highlights imo. The heavy, long stroke, straight 6 configuration is whats creating the “diesel like” performance, and it’s just up to gearing in the transmission and rear to keep it in the narrower power band. I think it’s pretty neat. Like a modern turbo ford 300. It’s a nice compromise for diesel feel without the expensive after treatment maint. If that zf isn’t the savior ram hss been needing though, it will be totally unsellable. Light weight rpm/horsepower is probably best for ppl who commute more than tow. Excited to see how it pans out!
Might as well just use the Hurricane then.
@@TheGettyAdventuresGordon is right, and the two sprockets would have same mounting face, just eliminate the idler gear. Even cast iron block with highly modified aluminum head to bring compression down, and lower weight. Possibilities are endless
Ram would be better off trying make a deal to buy a big V8 from Ford or GM.
Shift shift shift shift
If a manufacturer buys an engine from an outside supplier that significantly eats into their profit margin. They have to do the math to decide if it is worthwhile to not build something in-house, but engines are big ticket items.
Ram is going to have issues with the 2500 and 3500 since they are phasing hemi out for gas line
I have a 2500 6.4 with the ZF, very nice combo. I tow about every two weeks (11K lbs) for a couple hours. I will be in the market for a 5500/550 within 18 months to build out a flatbed off road camper (8-9K ish lbs). It will not be a diesel, I have learned my lesson from previous. If the Cummins Octane is an option, I will go with a Ram 5500, if the Hurricane is the only choice, it will be a F550. In my opinion the complexity of the Hurricane vs the simplicity of the pushrod for the same performance is a no brainer. If you want a Baja racer go with a 2500 w/Hurricane, that is not my needs. I have no issue with a detuned engine if it gives the torque and reliability without the expensive repairs/issues of a modern diesel. But I also drive like an old man in the slow lane... Interesting times...
I've never understood the powerwagon platform. They get significantly worse fuel mileage than the Cumminss, especially if you tow frequently.
I would be willing to try one out. Question, is fuel injectors going to be direct injection on this new octane 6.7?
Yes, it's GDI. DOHC 24V aluminum head, rear gear train, single twin scroll turbo charged, NO EGR, NO DEF. Only emissions is a three-way engine mounted catalyst behind the turbo.
The Hemi was Dodge’s bread and butter engine so to say by will be tough on sales and they need to build it right they guy next door who is retired from Chrysler and his brand new Hemi blew up in front of my house and they put a new motor in his truck with 1200 miles on it and that’s sad !!
thats rough. I think its an industry wide issues if I'm going to be honest I just think quality is down across all brands. hopefully if they do decide to outsource there next HD gas engine to cummins its built with quality.
You didn't mention the engine classification issue. All of the Cummins' material refers to this engine as Medium Duty. "Introducing the Cummins B6.7 Octane, purpose-built to deliver the highest durability and longest life of any medium-duty gasoline engine on the market." Cummins' website seems to imply this is a medium duty application engine. Which would also explain the detuned power numbers. Cummins would have to release a 'Ram' version of this engine similar to the 6.7 diesel variants. If they did that, there's no doubt that engine would be tuned for more horsepower. The medium duty B6.7 diesel engine also maxes out at 325hp. That's just to meet federal regulations.
100%, I did mention that if this engine was putting into the rams that the HP could probbaly easily be bumped to 400. BUT the max engine speed I feel will stay low.
@@TheGettyAdventures Agreed. But I’ve never driven a 400ish horsepower gas engine with a 3200 rpm redline so it’s hard to imagine how that would drive.
What's the GVWR of that Cummins? If it's still 10k lbs that is why the payload is so low. Ford and GM have bumped theirs up.
I prefer a Ford 7.3L V8
No worries, nothing will last more than 5 years
I have the one and only Cummins powered Power Wagon 👍
Same
I have the only Cat powered Power Wagon
Let's not forget the failure of the 5.0 diesel Cummins in the Titan XD. This looks like another
This engine is nothing like that.... they are using the same block, gear train, and rotating assembly that the B 6.7 engine currently uses. The difference is in the head/pistons and obviously the fuel system. This will be a game changer for gasoline engines in both the medium duty and possibly light duty applications also.
Man, I'm here early.
You sir are number 1! happy to have ya
The exhaust alone is $6,000 to $8,000 thousand on modern diesels , Cummins is not an exception, I think it would be surprising what the actual cost difference of the engine/exhaust.
I agree without the emission system there will be a price difference. how much I don't really know.
@@TheGettyAdventuresit's not gonna be like that for long because gas hogs are gonna be subject to having particulate filters as well
I think we will not only see the gasoline cummins in the ram but also the cng version and possibly even the hydrogen version.
I think instead of going to a gas version of the 6.7 they should have just reserved that spot for the hydrogen stuff later on (if it really goes through). I dont think there is going to be a great gain if there is a 6.7 gas.
I honestly didn't even think of that but yes absolutely possible, I really like that idea.
@@TheGettyAdventures The cng would be an easy sell to fleets that already have the filling infrastructure like the garbage truck companies.
What are the odds we'll see a H.O inline 6 in the HD? Beef the tranny and cooling and i think it could be done. Payload would be huge too.
I truly think there is a 0.0% chance the HO 3L is going into the HD trucks. It could not handle the loads. would it work - yes. But could it tow 17,000lbs for hours on end without overheating or be expected to make it out of warranty. it's a 3L twin turbo charged engine with spray on liners. no dip stick and runs only on premium fuel. I can't see fleets being excited to run premium fuel in there work trucks.
1. Too Heavy? The CTD is already in a lot of trucks, how is this a problem?
2. Cost. At least $3k should be shaved off from not having the emissions equipment.
3. Low HP High Torque. People are stupid and impatient. Marketer vs Engineer! A CTG will soon earn its reputation for being a beast. Remember 2004.5 Ram CTD?? 325HP and 600lb Torque, those trucks kicked butt towing.. how short is peoples memory?
4. Fuel economy. 600# isnt going to harm the MPG.................... Being turbo charged will likely lead to an improvement over the NA 6.4. for daily driving. Under load, more air in = more fuel burned. I imagine these engines can consume more fuel than a 6.4, but on a thermal efficiency basis I bet its an improvement. 118,000 btu in gas, 132,000 btu in diesel...
Written by a guy and gal who have a 2015 Ram 2500 with 6.4l and routinely tow 17,000# for a gross around 25,000# and she does it like a boss!
It would be a far better idea. Far more torque and no worries of cam failures like the 6.4 hemi is plaged with.
I agree I think overall the pro's would outweigh the cons. But I think certainly the price and weight would need to be addressed on some level.
@@TheGettyAdventures i agree. Remove so e of the unneeded tech to help offset the price.
Why not go with aluminum block
Certainly an option but I think the main purpose of cummins running different fuel types is the ability to use the same base engine to make it affordable to offer different fuel types
Wonder if we'll see more cylinder deactivation or MDS on these HD gas trucks
I hope not lol
What if they made the block and head aluminium.......they might just use a HD version of the Hurricane 3 litre inline 6. Either way, the Hemi V8 has been legislated out of existance.
Maybe but I doubt it. cummins has already made these gas engines and I don't think they would make a completely seperate block and head just for RAM. but I could be wrong.
I don't think anyone noticed, but the dyno charts are altered. The top peak of the curve is cut off. I guarantee they did this on purpose and have actually underrated the engine. During the release, I would not be surprised to see 375 hp and 750 torque. Gm and Ford have done this in the past and, upon release of the truck, changed the final numbers.
The best part of that flyer you put up says it all
NO AFTERTREATMENT!
THAT alone should take care of some of the weight issues 😉
Not for long, yall are getting it too
Ford figured this out with the new 7.3. You notice those things are never up for resale? The guys who bought them love them.
That being said, it pretty much is an old school pushrod v8. It’s made for reliability and longevity.
Chevy is trying to do the same thing with the 6.6 gasser
Everyone is marketing a gas truck that is an alternative to diesel. Cummins trying to use diesel parts is a big miss though.
Fix the issues with the 6.4 hemi, bore and stroke it and you have a perfectly good competitor.
Cummins has been building diesel based natural gas engines for years. We have one on an irrigation pump and it’s fantastic. I’d bet that they have it figured out.
Traded my 7.3/3.55 in, the Godzilla was fantastic the 10R140 not so much.
@@M_dot202huh?
But all three, the 7.3, 6.6 and hemi suffer from lifter failed. Such a cheap part leading to a rebuild
@@jeffreygoss8109 The 7.3 is much less common than in the 6.4. I believe that the 7.3 was a manufacturing issue while the 6.4 is an inherent design issue.
I would have liked to see Ram update the 6.4. No doubt it can be more powerful. Fix the lifter issues, and low oil pressure at idle issue, can we have a great engine..
I hope they get rid of the diesels in pick up trucks. I live in Alberta and am sick and tired of morons with jacked up diesel trucks spewing black smoke all over the place. And yes I own a truck too, but I’m not a moron about it like most diesel pick up truck owners…..
We need an updated 8.1 or 8.8 liter big block from gm. The 8.1 is probably the most reliable gas engine ever produced for a truck application. A modern fuel system, aluminum heads, and obviously a 10 speed for pickups or medium duty. 500hp and 650lb ft would be easily obtainable.
Getty is a pretty cool guy, I just wish he was real.
325hp of turbo engine power would absolutely smash that 6.4 in every way. Hp ratings are misleading at best. The turbo gas engine makes power from the rooter to the tooter, while the hemi makes power at a gazillion rpm...and thats the only time it makes power. Its called something like 'area under the curve, meaning the torque curve goes straight up and the flat, that would pull just like a mid 2000's cummins diesel...with way cheaper fuel.
Ram need to update the frame
Ram already has outstanding frames. What are you talking about?
Not for that 2500 ford and gm got better payload and better cabs @CornFed_3
@@CornFed_3ram ain't change that frame ain't a while since the 4th gen truck the not cool