"I Fear We Are Truly F***ed."
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Dr. Felig was genuinely brilliant in this episode and I hope you download the full podcast because this clip doesn't do it justice.
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Trans guy here who transitioned at 45. The biggest day to day change was the feeling of public invisibility that I experience as a masculine person. People just don't look at me. It sounds ridiculous but out in public women are _always_ being assessed. By men, by other women, sexually, non-sexually. Not experiencing that 24/7 surveillance is truly liberating and it's important that women and fems understand that it isn't in their head, it isn't trivial. It's real and it sucks.
I've heard this before. I personally think Trans people are a the bridge society desperately needs right now. Not that that should ever have to be anyone's purpose, but we are so broken right now. And people like you give me hope❤
Experiencing this in reverse as a trans woman was eye opening. After a lifetime of only being noticed when I scared people (6'5 and depressed are not a good combo for looking anything but pissed) it took about 6 months after social transition for me to become afraid of men. And that's with being tall and scary/undesirable to most creeps as well as not going out too often to lower the rate of harassment. It still happened, and it was so... unsettling that I'm now hyper vigilant in a way I never needed to be before. It disgusts me to imagine what experiencing that at age 9 does to a child
One of my kids is ftnb, with a very masculine appearance. (Started transition at 20, if that makes any difference.) They shared observations (not exactly this) with me from that unique perspective of having walked through the world in "both" sets of shoes. Thank you for sharing this information. It's really helpful!
@@missnaomi613 It sounds crazy but I'm an even more passionate feminist now than I ever was when I thought of myself as a woman. I was absolutely a feminist but you don't really understand the depths of misogyny out there (at both individual and systemic levels) until you are out from under it. Everything from equal pay for equal work, to violence, to tone policing. I'm not saying men/masc people don't experience any gender based negatives but the scale and breadth is different.
@@zanai2805 I'm sorry you experience this. And please don't describe yourself as "undesirable." You may not fit the cishet normative stereotypes of attractiveness that we all live under. (I don't as a 5'5" tubby middle aged trans guy.) But there _are_ people out there who would find you desirable. "Desirable" is 100% subjective and individual. One of my types is hairy, bald men with big noses. Not kidding. So be open to the idea that you are someone's "desirable." (Not counting chasers of course.)
I really wish more young men would watch this channel. Too many of them are being brainwashed by bitter old men making red pill content. Keep fighting the good fight, sir.
For sure! 👏👏👏
I don't think men should listen to this channel or red pill channels, because from i've seen red pill channels teach men to hate women, and channels like this teach men to hate themselves, or at least feel guilt by assocation because of the horrible things some other men have done. How about a channel that doesn't do either? I don't see a news story about a man doing something bad to a woman, and then feel ashamed of myself, the guy that did it should be ashamed sure, but I didn't do anything, so what do I have to be ashamed of?
There are more positive masculine channels rising up with a focus on men, rather than focusing on blaming women. Gent Z is one I like for example, and I've seen a couple of Newel of Knowledge's videos I like. Obligatory Dr K for actionable mental health advice from a professional.
He only ever talks about issues affecting women. While that's really important, it's not something young men are interested in.
@@Newton-Reuther Then the question should be....why not? As a woman, I'm interested in things that affect men - because men being affected will eventually affect me, too. Like the effect of those men watching the toxic men channels. I'm VERY concerned about how that is affecting men. So...why AREN'T men interested in things that affect women? They SHOULD be.
My sister is 20 years older than me. She recently told me that when I was little she'd take me out with her to give Mum a break. And that she'd sometimes have to confront grown men for looking at me inappropriately. "She's a child, you fucken pervert!" I remember some instances and they just make my skin crawl.
I've been sexually harrassed by a group of guys in a car, while I was walking home, carrying nappies (diapers) and baby formula. I was terrified.
My mom knows the first moment I was sexualized. I was 4 years old in a Home Depot register lane being leered at by this 30 something man behind us. Mom called him out and he practically ran away from public shame. Doubt he actually felt real shame, of course.
@@HaleyJo1992 Ugh! Do you remember that? I remember the first time I knew something must be very wrong, something outside of my control, when I was 5. In a public park a stranger approached us and offered me money. My sister grabbed my arm and pulled me behind her. I just remember the fear, strength and determination in her voice while repeating "No thank you." until he left.
My mom told me I was 3. I don’t remember it but she told me the story.
I've known so many women and girls who started hearing sexual comments about them made at 8-9 years old. It's honestly disgusting and disappointing and it's so prevalent that I think we should all be fighting tooth and nail like feral animals to protect our baby girls.
Protecting them means educating them. And boys too. That's what my mom did with me & my brother. Men have tried, but none have fully crossed the line into assault with me because I can see them for what they are and know what steps to take to protect myself. Blinders on children is what puts them in danger. It's what allows manipulators to silence them.
@@cassettetape7643 We also need to be teaching, "Don't sexually harass people. It's fucked up and hurts them."
@@cassettetape7643As someone who was pressured into sexual activity WAY too young, I 100% agree that education (on all sides - girls, boys, parents, kids) is the way to go! And you have to have these conversations BEFORE you think they're old enough to need them or it might already be too late by the time you get around to it!! 😕
SERIOUSLY, to any parents listening, if your child is in middle school and you haven't had frank conversations about these things yet, GET. ON. IT. NOW!!! I was 12/13 when people started pressuring me into sexual activity and I know people who had it start even earlier! Do NOT assume your child is magically immune from peer pressure because you told them to "just say no" one time.
My parents kept things vague and kinda made it seem like any guy who tried to get me to have sex with them would be, like, a rando creep at a party. They never made it seem like it might come from someone I knew and *gasp* actually liked, so I did still say no...at first...but very naively felt bad/mean for continuing to "disappoint" them, so I gave in eventually, then felt like I had to keep giving in because the damage was already done and now they expected it, right? Took me a while to work up the courage to get myself out of those situations and a much longer time to forgive myself and move past it. Since they were also young, I really hope they also eventually wised up and didn't keep up the toxic behavior they grew up with.
Anyway, no one ever told young me that it's 100% okay to tell someone to f*ck off if they keep trying to push past your boundaries regardless of who they are to you, or that THEY are 10000% in the wrong if they try to pressure you into something you're not 100% on board with...which seems obvious to adults, but some kids need someone to tell them or they'll have to learn the hard way like I did ☹️
So now, I tell my own kids and my nieces/nephews all the things I wish someone had told me (and the kids I grew up with). To all readers: please do the same for the kids in your life.
@@adrienstarfaera very good point.
Hopefully cassette tape, while educating his/her own children on spotting adults who may want to harm them, were also teaching them how to be kind and caring people themselves. This is how we did it in our home by modeling this behavior ourselves, discussing both good and bad examples and experiences of harassment/intimidation etc. I’m sure this is what goes on in many other families across the country as well, not just the three of ours. I personally know many more good and decent men and women of all ages than those who aren’t. This includes some who have evolved to realize that the “jokes” or “harmless flirtation” of days gone by were nothing of the sort.
My general, personal rule of thumb, and what I try to encourage everyone to do, is "Don't comment on people's bodies." Period. Whether you intend it to be a compliment or not. Because what people don't realize is that no matter what you say, you're teaching or reinforcing something. Even if you think you're giving a compliment, you don't know what deeply damaging, painful, disordered thoughts might have already been implanted, by society, by someone else, by the media, etc. You can never ever know what they hear when you comment on their appearance.
I'm 61 and the sexual harassment started when I was 12. And I still vividly remember it.
It's scary how it does change how you view yourself. I went from being this kid who climbed trees, and looked for salamanders and tadpoles in the woods, to constantly policing what I did, how I dressed, what I wore, trying not to attract any attention.
And all this was before having an online presence (still don't have one, thank God).
We are f*cked.
Same. My first harassment experience was when i was 11. I was a similar girl who liked hanging out with my boy cousins and doing "boy" things. After that i started hiding.
Will it ever stop? I'm turning 40 this year and figured maybe I'm finally old enough to be undeseriable. But still couldn't take the train downtown without being harassed. I had on a baggy hoodie, and oversized pj pants on, no makeup hair a mess. As unattractive as I could possibly make myself. I just want to run errands uninterrupted at some point in my life.
But you say, “We are f*cked” as if this is something new or is something getting worse.
This is not something new and I am willing to bet it is not at all getting worse. Boomers report this behavior having been widespread for us, the Silent Majority women (older still) admit it being common occurrences, and for centuries before that it is common knowledge that women in many if not most societies had very little control over their lives. Their entire lives, including their sexual lives, were at the whim of the men who controlled/owned them.
Women have much better autonomy now and recourse than most times in history. It doesn’t stop all the violence but the improvement would be amazing to the women of centuries past.
Women are still vulnerable as hell tho and maybe we are f*cked. But it sure isn’t something new.
I have been fearing we are truly fucked for fifty years now. Nothing has proven me wrong yet. I do have hope with the younger generations though. Fingers crossed.
Well said, friend!
Oh boy...
As one of the younger generations (second youngest, gen z) I fear that you should not have that faith in us.
And it was NOT any better earlier than 50 years ago, either. We've always been truly f*cked.
@@Dreamheart101Gen Z and Alpha have time, you will also have less influence of boomers. I honestly believe you guys can do it 🩷
50 years you say? Yea we aren’t fucked, we just need the older generation to stop insisting we do things there way and give us space to actually succeed.
I don’t take selfies so I don’t edit them but the reason is the same I was horrifically broken by people and family that were supposed to protect me. After 40 years I don’t hate me but I still can’t truthfully say I like how I look. Stop saying boys will be boys. Stop the pain early and save the next generation
Yep. Boys will be boys is a valid saying, but it gets misused. "Boys will be boys" is for a "see who can toss an m&m the highest and still catch it in their mouth challenge", not harassment.
I’m so sorry, and I wish I could offer you a giant hug!!
@@nadiariggs5110 lol I appreciate the offer but physical touch is not something I’m currently capable of 😁
@@waffles3629 or when they break something playing... But when girls go it there's no cliche to get them off the hook
@@therabbithat yep, it's an obnoxious double standard
I think the best way to ask the question is probably:
"How do we get society to a point where nobody wants to harass anyone?"
Which makes me ask another question:
"WHY do people want to do it in the first place?"
And maybe:
"Are the reasons men and women do it different?"
I’d say there’s probably more than one reason men and women do it differently because neither men nor women are a monolith, but I’d also say one of the biggest reasons is societal norms and the difference in pressure put on men and women to behave in different ways according to the organ found in their pants. 🤷♀️
I'd say encourage empathy and critical thinking (I think that's perhaps the most important factor for most current problems in the world, honestly).
If someone is asking themselves why they want to do it, what effect it would have or is having, and they understand how it makes the other person feel, they're probably not going to want to do it.
And people do it in the first place probably because they're thinking with what's in their pants (so... not thinking much).
@@blueredingreen True and they likely aren’t as worried abt the consequences bc it’s rare that there are bigger consequences for ppl who do this even they get any at all
@@maem7462 Definitely. I'd focus on the effect that it has on other people, rather than the effect it might have on the perpetrator.
Hopefully one day we can get society to a point where the consequences to oneself is bad enough to dissuade people who just fundamentally couldn't care less about anyone else.
@@blueredingreen I do agree abt focusing on the effect it has on other ppl so that way as a society we can hopefully stop shaming and blaming the victims. That is an important part of the issue. If there is less shame around what the victims went through then it’s more likely for the perpetrators to be caught. I do also think it’s important to have big consequences for the perpetrators as well. That does sometimes happen but sadly there are still cases where it’s so obvious that someone is guilty and they don’t get a punishment
I thought about the question “how old were you when you started experiencing sexual harassment” after she said the average age for women was 9 years because I thought “wow that’s so young!” and I realized that I was only 7 years old and I’m tearing up cause I never realized how early it started…. And it wasn’t just harassment, it was abuse and now I want to break down.
Same! I was like "wow that's young, reminds me of my friend who developed early" and was then like "wait, I had a boy look up my skirt when I was 6, and another boy did something worse at the same age, and yet another boy tricked me into a sexual position when I was like 8 and then made fun of me for not knowing any better... I started getting harassed much younger than 9, huh?" And while my parents defended me, other people fought them on it with the classic "boys will be boys" line. Like, what? In what world should boys be taught that such behavior is okay?!
I was about 3 or 4
I'm really sorry that you all had to experience those things. I hope you're healing and being kind to yourselves. 💚
Same here. I was sexually abused at age 2 or 3 the first time, by a male cousin who was only 2 years older than me. I don't remember it happening but my grandmother tried to blame me for initiating the action. My parents were livid and threatened to never speak to her again.
I'm in therapy now, EMDR.
From shortly after the time I was born, my mother was putting makeup and lacy dresses on me to get baby pictures done. And I can't remember a time, before I rebelled, around age 11, that she didn't physically nitpick at me about my body, trying to make me look prettier. For who? Men?
Her father was a pedophile who graped 2 of her half sisters, his stepdaughters. She can't say if something happened to her. She doesn't remember. He molested me when I was 6.
Yes! 100% this!
I developed early, so it was something I felt keenly. Even while I was still carrying around "baby fat" at 9, my developing breasts meant more eyes on me. It was uncomfortable, at best. My best friend was slender and pretty, but she didn't get the same attention my chest got. I wanted boys my age to like me, not older boys or men. I certainly didn't want sexual attention.
At the same time, that developing self-identity and my self-esteem were all over the place. Part of my brain said, "I'm fat and I'm not pretty like Linda. I'll never have a boyfriend or a husband." Another part of my brain said, "all these older guys think you're sexy. They like your boobs. They say you'll probably be good at sex. That's the way to get a boyfriend and a husband!" Thankfully, my crippling lack of confidence in myself and my body meant I didn't act out sexually at that age. Can't say I was able to carry that into my teens, but I wish I had.
It took many years to find true confidence and comfort in this body. I struggle from time to time and hope by the time I die I'll have found absolute contentmentwith my body and my sex appeal without male input, but I'm afraid there'll always be part of me that will seek a man's opinion to determine whether or not I'm sexy enough, worthy enough, etc.
If I feel this way in my 50s, what chance do younger women and girls have in this world?
I’ve made up my mind that when I see any of it online, I’ll call it out. I’m not going to sit here and see sexism/misogyny day after day and do nothing. Does that mean that I sometimes get into online fights with a$$holes? Yep, it does, and so be it. I’m tired of this. I believe if every woman and every good hearted man called them out on it every time, they’d shut up. Their beliefs may not change, but they would stop influencing others.🤗🐝❤️
Yep, totally with you! I tend to be sarcastic in my battles with online a$$holes, and don't suffer fools gladly (comes with the territory once you hit your fifties!) and sometimes I look at what I've posted afterwards and think "Wow, I've really become that Scary Old Lady Who Nobody Dares To Cross, haven't I?" But then I think if it shuts up one of those a$$holes and makes them slink away with their tail between their legs - even for just a short while - it's worth it.
Exactly this! When negative behaviors go unchecked, it becomes a silent form of enabling. When that goes on long enough, it shifts into normalization which is where the negative behaviors become more prevalent until it morphs into chaos. The only way to stop it is for the positive voices to become louder.
@@justacoginthefkery^^ Yes! You worded it perfectly! So many men on posts see these conversations about how they are all complacent to our abuse and are like I’m not the problem I’m not doing this. But they always know someone who is and they just sit there, not saying or doing anything. Not going to the cops to report their bro for admitting to gr@pe because “it’s just bro talk”. The fact that they think its normal and okay to do that to the point it doesn’t even cross their mind that they aided and abetted someone who repeatedly harms women.
@@IllumInator-sv3tl I hope your best friend turns out to be a professional scammer and you don't know their victims well so that you realize what doing what you said feels like. I am grateful that I never had to face this dilemma. My friends just watch porn.
@@justacoginthefkery Perfectly said!❤️🐝🤗
Well...I'm old. Really old. My generation was just as objectified, if not more, due to consciousness raising about sexism and harassment. Having said that social media is such an objectifying tool, my generation didn't deal with. Love to get clarity on how internet and social media fuels harassment and abuse...objectifying.
The way I think of social medias impact is that they can be anonymous they can get away with saying something heinous or threatening because no one knows who they are and would have a difficult time tracing it to them. They think they can do and say whatever with little to no repercussion (like the worst they get on average is getting the post/ video taken down and rear key do they get banned because they just make a new account). That means men feel they can say rude things about women and girls online because they think we can’t figure out who they are and expose them for their actions. When we were taught about cyber bullying it was a similar concept. They see it as an easy way to get access to people to bully and harm without repercussions.
what
It's an impossible situation. Girls start getting harassed at a young age, and are then made to feel ashamed and responsible for it. At the same time, we're constantly told to make ourselves "presentable", and taught that our physical appearance is one the most, if not THE most, important part of us.
Social media has made it all a billion times worse. 😔
Even if a 14-year-old is completely obsessed with the horizontal tango, and is literally begging every eligible adult around, It is still harassment for anyone to do anything even slightly objectifying him. A lot of people don't seem to understand that concept either....
Of course. But seeing as how pedophiles are everywhere, that 14 year old should be taught to not do that. It's not the child's fault, but children should be taught to act like children.
It's... well at least people seem to be more and more aware and speaking out, I guess? But yeah, we've got a looooooong way to go.
Hey Chesko I just gotta say I really like that when you post videos of interviews or discussions you do with women you let their voices be heard instead of speaking over them or making your commentary the star of the video. Dr. Felig's work is important and I'm glad it's getting the attention this topic deserves.
The best thing that EVER happened to me was turning older than my "best before" date. (And yes, that's a comment I received from a m*n who was mad at me because I didn't want a drink from him). Now the only one who comments on my appearance is my mother... and no, Mom, I don't care if I look 'softer' with my hair longer.
It seems clear to me that most men want to go back to the 1950s when women had no voice anywhere at all. It's honestly depressing. The birth rate is going to plummet until men wake up and stop making laws that make reproduction as dangerous as possible because some other man told them that's the moral position. It's as if the domination and abuse that defined het relationships in the past was the point for most men not a side effect for some violent men.
I see it as an extension of politics. And I don't mean right-left politics, but rich-poor politics. The world is effectively ruled by the rich now, far more than it has been in the past. There used to be some reward for working hard. If you worked hard enough, chances were you actually COULD create a better life for yourself. These days, there are a few lucky people who get some lucky breaks and are able to break through...but most people see nothing in their futures except more hard work that only brings more debt. And there's really nothing they can do to change that because elections only offer a 'worst' option or an "even worse" option - no matter how you choose to assign the labels. Bottom line is, no matter who you vote for, there is low-to-no expectation that they will actually do anything to improve your life. So it's very clear that you have little control over your own life - politicians don't listen to you but feel free to make laws you have to obey, employers don't care about you but make policies you have to obey or lose your job, and employment is so crappy overall that you usually don't have the option to find a job you LIKE, only one that (hopefully) will keep you fed. Men are used to being in control - historically they have been. In control of their wives & children, in control of where they worked, even in control of how much they got paid because they could advocate for better wages without the penalty many get these days ("Union-loving troublemaker"). With no control of their own lives, many men are turning to try and control WOMEN'S lives instead because they see it - consciously or not - as more achievable. So I don't see things improving until the rich are overthrown. We're getting there...slowly. The current level of inequality isn't sustainable and the cracks are showing. Lets hope that wheel turns more quickly.
There are are a lot who want that but don't make the mstake of thinking it's most men. It's a minority but they're very loud.
@@wjm1319 That's definitely a factor. Especially as it's become more socially unacceptable to be racist (Which is where that got directed in the 50's and 60's).
So you get a bunch of people who steadfastly refuse to be racist because of how quickly it would result in no one liking them but who don't understand the "try not to be a bigot" reasons behind it. So they'll instead say bigotted things about women that are more socially acceptable.
People need someone to blame for their lot in life, and rich people definitely don't want that to be them. So it always has to be redirected somewhere else.
It’s not just the loud minority, it’s the quiet majority who stand by and watch because “it’s not their problem.”
@@allthenewsordeath5772 You literally CANNOT respect women if you don't even consider them capable of determining what is best for them, their families, and even their own body.
You can help your daughters by being you, you care about women and kids. Be the person you hope they find around them. The cure unfortunately is age. I'm nearly 60 and don't give a f- how I'm treated, but I have 2 20's nieces and at every single chance I comment on everything they are that is good.
that's true, too
It doesn’t matter when it comes to women it’s in our dna to self destruct, and usually all it takes is one wrong look from someone and bingo there goes our self destruct button,
I was the school pariah for years in public school. It didn't just do damage... it altered my entire sense of self. But that also left me far too defensive against future attacks to respond much to male objectification in college, when I finally got to change environments and start fresh. For example, I'd never heard of negging back then but I'd heard of mean people. Attempts to get my attention through "playful" teasing, much less actual negging (which I'm pretty sure one guy tried... either that or he just had a terrible personality) led to me avoiding that person in the future.
As a proper adult, I can look back and recognize that a few guys may have been fishing for responses they never got... some got outright angry with me out of nowhere. Why can't people just talk to each other?
Also, what does it say when men call each other women as an insult? Guys still do that...
I do take selfies, and I don't edit them. Being 62, I have scars and wrinkles and wobbly bits, and I earned every bit. For too long, I worried about my self-image, and it still didn't get me in the popular groups or to fit in. This world is fucked so I am my self and to hell with the consequences.
This channel is breath of fresh air
Because it absolves you of accountability and responsibility?
@@user-rm5jj9qw9t Because it makes you think about your accountability and responsibility?
@@LK-fc9li Spoken like a true spoiled princess
@@user-rm5jj9qw9t Why do you feel that way?
@@Kaylor-xo3oo Look at the comment sections of most of speech prof's videos. Look at the disgusting generalizations made about men by bitter -women- feminists who are mad at their exes.
The man is always in the wrong in the relationship. It's never their fault. Even though that's bullshit, both parties are usually at fault. My ex complained about doing chores when she was living with me rent free, like a lot of these feminists complain about doing chores in speech prof's comments.
But I was paying all of the bills, working a hard labor job (still am), and doing most of the cooking. Nothing but excuses from my ex on why she couldn't at least do the bare minimum. I see my ex in a lot of these angry feminists; they run from any sign of responsibility or accountability. They want to put the blame entirely on men.
Point is I accept responsibility and take accountability for ignoring the red flags and letting that relationship go on far longer than it should have. Meanwhile for her, I was 'abusive'... For asking her to do the bare minimum...
An issue I have is the capitalist brain rot of people thinking that relationships are a zero sum game. Makes it wayy easier to objecify people if you're taught to think of them as adversary in some capacity.
There are instances where it is a zero sum game. That is why it is important to find the right partner.
@@Kaylor-xo3oo 😩🤦♂️
Well, I'm glad I rarely use mirrors, don't take pictures of myself, and when I do I never use filters (no idea how😂).
As someone who was clinically diagnosed with OSDD at age 25, (that was some 25-odd years ago now - blimey!) I can definitely relate to the idea of 'losing your sense of self.'
Throughout my teenage years - from about 13 to 18, while I was still living at home - I covered the mirror in my bedroom by draping an old dressing gown over it, because I just couldn't deal with seeing myself. (It didn't matter, because I never wore make-up and my hair just kind of fell into its style when I brushed it, so I never needed to be able to see what I was doing to myself in that sense.) My parents never once questioned it or even brought it up in conversation, and, since they were the ones who were constantly telling me I was too fat, too spotty, my hair was greasy, etc. I took their silence as them confirming that yeah, I really shouldn't be looking in mirrors if I didn't want to be *disgusted with myself.*
I wasn't able to be in a room with an uncovered mirror until I'd left home and met the man who's now my husband. I still hate having my photo taken, and one of the things my husband bemans is that he has hardly any photos of me. I can count the number of selfies I've taken of myself in my life on one hand - and they were purely for work-related reasons. In one way, that's good, I suppose - I don't have that 'thing' of taking and editing hundreds of photos of myself like many young women these days do. And I haven't expected people to find me attractive since I was that insecure teenager, so it's not something I think or worry about much at all - especially now I'm in my fifties, when I have the added bonus of no longer giving a crap what anyone thinks of me anyway. 😊
But I wouldn't wish my teenage mindset on anyone, and it kills me to think there might be others out there who feel what I felt. Social media is both the best and worst thing to happen to our society. Thankfully, channels like yours represent the best, and I wish more of what's out there could be like yours.
It started for me around 5 or 6. Maybe earlier, but I have large memory gaps before that. And it was pretty consistent, not like one event and then a long wait until the next one. I learned very early what most men seemed to be interested in, and it wasn't my creativity or wit. I think I started being frequently catcalled around 9 or 10. I had teenagers and *grown men* of all ages leer at and hit on me. It's disgusting and really colors how you view the world. It makes me really sad, too, because I'm sure I've been an aloof bish to some guys who maybe really did just want to talk. I have no way of knowing who is safe and who isn't though. When I was at a bus stop alone (college age), and a man about my age was there, and he asked me for the time and seemed like he may want to chat, I told him the time and put on my best "don't even talk to me" vibe. It was purely reactionary because of a lifetime of unwanted sexual advances, and I felt bad because he legit seemed a bit hurt. He may have just wanted to pass the time while we waited. But with no one else in the area, I didn't feel safe to talk to him, because if he tried something, there was no one to help if I needed it.
I will say I've been blessed with having some good men in my life, and never had a scary date. I have a lot of friends who have, though. It took years of being in a safe and loving relationship for me to be able to rewire my automatic responses. Now I'm at an age where the unwanted attention doesn't come around so much. I don't know if that's because I look like someone's mom (as a friend said 😄), I'm heavier, I've got a LOT more self confidence, or a combo of all. I'm trying to lose some weight, and am a little concerned that it could bring the attention back. We'll see. But a lot of these men seem to want to go after girls and teens, not adult women.
Its interesting and helpful to hear about women and men’s experiences. One doesn’t nullify the other, and that women have a cumulative effect that men don’t experience as much.
I remember doing research on sexual harrassment in highschool for my sociology class (which was an elective class) and got so much push back from male and female students. Well then just don't at the picture. He's complimenting her why should she be upset? Etc
I'm an old woman. From my perspective, things are getting better, not worse. Women are definitely not as f-cked as they have been. But that's just my perspective.
In a lot of ways we're better than the 90s because were a lot more supportive of eachother and aware of the damages of over focus on image. But we're still overly bombarded with the wrong messages all the time worse than the 90s in a lot of ways.
I doubt it's getting better. "Rape" and "teen" are still popular categories of porn and I can't scroll CZcams without someone telling me how to fix my appearance.
This morning a meme crossed my feed. "50th anniversary of a woman being able to get a credit card without the signature of a man." 1974. We do have a long way to go, no doubt. But I really do think it is getting better. Stay strong and loud, my younger friends.❤️
The majority of men isn't getting better. The majority of women is, though. Women are faster shedding their (internalised) misogyny than men, which is both encouraging and disheartening at the same time.
@@Raven74408 I think porn plays a huge part in objectification. Plenty of research backs that up. Unfortunately, that toxic filth is everywhere. What smoking was for earlier generations, where basically everyone was smoking, even doctors and teachers, porn is for our generation.
I saw Roxanne yesterday on The Line. Awesome to see her again, despite the topic.
Oh I need to see that! I'm subscribed to The Line. Not sure how I missed it.
@@sonja4164 it was a Cus I wanna with Forrest Valkai
I hope things change.
I was much younger than that. I actually was too young to even understand what was happening, and now that I am old enough I have a hard time trying to even think of that time.
I want to thank you for being one of the best voices I've found to help us understand our society, values and attitudes, etc, as a parent myself and person in society it's so refreshing to hear this honest and thoughtful content
And the worst part is a lot of men dont care not until its their daughter their sister their wives. They deep down know how awful other men can be but they wont say a word till it hits home
One advantage of being very neurodivergent. Editing my face freaks me out very, very badly. I played with an angel filter once thinking it just gave eyelashes and a blush, but then I noticed it altered my jawline and the shape of my eyes as well. I literally turned the app off and handed my coworker her phone back it upset me so much. I don't even like makeup styles that alter my face unless it's Halloween. It genuinely disturbs me.
I was maybe 11 when I first experienced s. harassment. I didn’t fully understand it but I knew that it was something wrong and it made me feel disgusted, not only at them but at myself. I’m 20 now and the last time I experienced s. harassment was when I was 17. We live in a world where it’s normal to prey upon little girls. Protect the kids.
Interesting. I have never spent very much time looking in a mirror after I graduated high school. Usually just a quick look to make sure I don't have something on my teeth or whatever. I feel neither attractive or ugly, somewhere in between. I don't care much about how others think about how I look. I mean dress is appropriate for occasion. Do I think I look ok? Yes? All good. But I get how the way society projects what you "should" look like, clothes you wear, etc. Personally, I think it's a big marketing ploy to create a need to sell sh!t. If you aren't into the newest thing, you are crap.
Fantastic episode!!!
And then for us trans women the domino effect if it starts early enough like for me when I was like three or four I got the whole hateful reinforcement of you're a boy and you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do this and you should do this and you should do that. So like she said most women start their issues at 9:00 I started mine even earlier and even at a more fundamental point of development so this is why I actually uplifting and supporting and empowering trans people to explore and understand themselves and figure out who they are is so important so that we don't have to wait 30 years to figure that out. A lot of us don't live that long
I know this so well. Even male friends and co-workers will occasionally stop to stare at me and then make some comment about my appearance. What I wouldn't give to restart my life without that influence.
As a disabled female person (I am nonbinary, bigender), this is so freaking important to talk about. I wonder if the physiological changes correlate to some developments of chronic pain issues. (Though of course, chronic pain issues are REAL and not all psychosomatic. And even if they are, you are are still dealing with that shit and need support and treatments.)
We used to do this way back when without selfies
It’s called a mirror, probably one of the world’s worst creations ever made. Yes there was reflections on the water but I don’t think it was quite the same as when the mirror was invented.
I experienced it for the first time at 3yo. My daughter already got comments about her body and her appearance and how pretty she is, without assault, at two and three years old. She is now 4 yo
3:45 yep, this is very true. i know a few men that unfortunately have one horrific experience that they've been through and unfortunately i have so many that i cant even count them, just a few that really stick out in my mind. and it started when i was 5-7ish. im not sure the exact age, trauma blocks it out tbh
Fascinating. I don't edit my pics and I am trans. But have really defined personhood. I am solid and have a healthy confidence. I also take BS from men. Just on principal. Lol. That's really interesting. 2:39
From the podcast where Dr. Felig was talking about how she forced herself to explain the information better for the public to understand (-42:20), I believe that her technique was a form of the Feynman Technique, fyi. BUT, I do not believe Feynman was the first one to propose this technique or to use this technique.
If this is helpful, I was born in 68. I started getting harassed by age 12-13. I wasn’t even allowed to wear make up yet. I wasn’t an outlier. It was common. This has been going on for ages to young girls as well as young women.
One quick Synopsys to the Podcast (I do recommend the podcast, actually):
>> -29:00 Self-Objectification comes from Harassment that makes it more difficult for women (that participate in self-objectification) will have a lesser sense of self, as opposed too men.
>> Subtle, Mundane forms of Harassment
> Commentary (Dramatic Impact)
>
>> Social Media/Body Positivity (I won't time stamp because I just think it's wrong what that company did, even if she's okay with it.)
>> (-16:30) Setting boundaries with followers.
>> () Social Media Double Standard
> Having words policed
>> (-11:30) Violent Responses from Misogynist.
>> (-6:50) Conservative Institutions attempting to dox and ruin professors' careers.
> Personally, I disagree with any person's career is in jeopardy just because of what someone does in their personal life.
I would agree with her assessment. As I have moved through the years it is frightening when I take a step back and truly look at what is going on. The only thing I would add is that objectification of men in2024, is on par with that of women. As a result many guys are getting trapped in the bdd space thinking they aren’t good looking and doing most anything to achieve that ideal look they and others have in mind. So sad. I cannot remember the last time I heard people talking about being attracted to another’s intellect, smile, morality (or lack there of), etc.
You don't get enough attention, my man
The mere fact that pictures of me exist disturbs me. But it's not because I have an image problem. It's because I have spent far too long being treated like a toy for men's enjoyment. It messes with your head. My best solution was to not leave an image trail, to be as private a person as this social world allows.
See,(and this may just be a gen X thing) I think of people looking at me/judging me, and that just make s my badassdom come out.
I'm like, 'You want some of this?!? COME ON!!!"
I guess it's just the 80's vibe...
as a trans girl its something you can feel so so distinctly when you transition and start to mentally (whether intentionally or not) adopt the social role of a woman.
Two years ago, when i was still mandated to keep short hair for school, had to wear the boys uniform, had a more connected social circle in which i had to play the role of a boy, of course i felt dysphoria, and it would be disingenuous to claim that my dysphoria then wasnt as bad, but at the time the idea was that genetically, i didnt have it that bad. "If i grow feminine hair", i thought, "the dysphoria will mostly go away".
2 years later and it has improved not nearly to the extent that i expected. This is the part where it gets relevant to the topic; was it because i was wrong? delusional? No. I dont think so. I think that if you put the me from 2 years ago into the body i have today, i would be elated, and my dysphoria would be so greatly reduced.
While I could give a whole spiel on the many things that has caused this... phenomena, that's not the point here, and i think the point im trying to make can be exemplified in one simple conversation i had with my cis friend on discord.
"Do you think my (self image issues) would be so bad if I was cis?"
"No."
The mental shift from thinking of myself as a guy or a girl playing the role of a guy, to a girl trying to fill the role of a girl was devestating to my self image and i think its a unique perspective that hits really hard as to how girls are objectified. being happy with "Just looking like a girl" turns into wanting to look like an instagram model. Understanding that I am underweight and being happy to gain weight turns into hoping to maintain, or even lose weight.
(sorry! i have a problem with rambling)
**TLDR:**
If i have to summarize my experience specifically on this point, its this:
before i started trying to be seen as a girl, my idea of trying to be seen as a girl as society was "look like girl."
Now that I've actually been in this headspace for a while, trying actively to be seen as a girl, my self objectification has increased and my self image (proportionally to how i look) has worsened.
While I can't say it was solely because of this change of how i view myself and how i try to portray myself to society, I have to attribute a large part to it. I don't think you can truly understand how disproportionately women are objectified if you haven't experienced this or something similar.
❤
9 and 14? That's insane. I'd like to know what was considered sexual harassment in the study
Genuine question:
Is it normal for ppl to edit selfies?
Even if their image is not their job? Like models and influencers?
But just regular ppl?
I have really bad acne that only really goes away with hormonal birth control. As a teenager, it was really really bad.
"Selfies" and smartphones were just getting started around that time, but we still had digital cameras and I spent a long time trying to figure out how to photoshop those pimples away.
I don't do this anymore, even when I get acne flare ups, but it definitely is still pervasive during formative and awkward years.
it is normal don't worry
if you find yourself doing it too much because you're scared of how you look, keep in mind that nobody looks exactly how they want
Having traveled and studied many different cultures i love the US. Almost impossible to be invaded by a foreign power, relatively little racism and sexism it's definitely still there but the west is leagues better than it was and others still are, tons of quality of life research that is typically fairly accessible, almost no one starves to death, and many more things. Outside of the fact major businesses are still operating on an infinite growth model causing them to squeeze the middle class out of existence, and inching closer and closer to ww3 most problems can often be solved on an individual level, mostly just a question of if we can figure out the economy before the nation crumbles. To say we're f***ed is just kinda sad and pitiful, we've come so far how is that the thing that were doomed over.
Is this on youtube?
Did she study the objectification of men as well? I am curious if they suffer similarily or if the effects are different.
I think it would probably be different for a multitude of reasons like for one men and women’s experiences are different, there are some similarities but in general it’s the same toliet different ish
I also think it differ because men see reality differently, not all of them ofc but a lot of them do and when you mix that in with their mob mentalitness and yearning to belong then it ups the number, I also say they see it differently because I think they use emotions when looking at reality if you know what I mean like if someone did something for a reason they don’t accept then to them they didn’t actually do it for that reason, this mini phenomenon is hard for me to explain but it’s just something I feel like they do, yk through observation and whatnot
Anyways lost tract the point was that when you see stuff differently you also experience it differently, so this isn’t to say it doesn’t happen or it happens only in small increments, just that I think it would vary for them
I sometimes don't know what's wrong with me because whenever I walk down the street or anywhere really there are hundreads of eyes staring at me like a hawk. I noticed it expecially the other day at the theater. I was wondering why the entire evening. And the theater mind you was full of older women (because who if not older women wants to listen to the symphony n. 40 by Mozart in full?) andn I was wearing a long dress with short burgundy Mary jane shoes. I wasn't even showing that much skin to have that reaction. And everytime this happens I don't understand if it's because I'm beautiful (thank you but I'd rather you make a compliment than stare at me) or because I'm autistic and this is a very common thing to happen to the autists like me (because it also happens when I'm wearing a huge puffer jacket and don't look my best). I seriously wonder why? You start policing yourself so much you loose that sense of self that it feels like you don't even know who your real self is at this point.
People are editing their selfies? This whole time i just thought i was super un-photogenic and I was cool with it. Now i think im probably just average un-photogenic lol
😢
I too was 9 or 10 when my friends adopted uncle wanted to show me hia penis. I don't remember comments before that, but i do remember comments in my esrly teens from peers about breast size and comparing it between different girls. I alsk remember at the start of puberty being so WORRIED i wouldnt develop much breast tissue. I would stand in the mirror at 12 and push my chest togetehr to try and create cleavage and hope I would grow boobs soon. Its so sad i couldnt just wear garmets that were comfortable and keep living my life. I too was a girl who use to play in mud, climb at the park, but also with dolls. Im going tk be 31 soon and i am navigating even whether or not i wear makeup, and how much if for myself or others. I now know i want good skin, but it's been a challenge to get here.
It makes me wonder what a healthier version of attraction can look like, too. 😅🤔
Like. Being attracted or attractive to people, without. Going this far down.
To appreciate looks or dress up, without. Having it be this intense. To get that rejection hurts, but... there's shit that sucks WAY worse.
So sad
😂
nah I hate my self so my view of my self solely depends on how others perceive me. 👍
Same. 😢
What do we do? Stop letting others define you.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to watch that entire episode. But I won't. I couldn't listen an hour to this topic. It makes me so nauseous and I always need a clarification on what you mean when you say sexual harassment. Is that plain verbal harassment, or does that already mean being touch. Like so guy grabs your arm, cos he doesn't want you to leave. Or does mean SA. And does SA include rape? Cos I really can't follow the terms that America uses here. It's like a forest of words and the meaning is foggy.
And I feel you! Having that reassurance that your worst fear is right... it's got two sides. There is relief and there is more anxiety about at the same time.
I rather overstep a boundary by getting involved in a situation I witness, like a woman fighting with a man about something and him getting physical in some way. So I rather step up and help her out, getting an earful from her after this...than just watching her maybe getting beaten to the ground or "just" a shock, a scare and a high blood pressure.
Cos A) I don't know how they know each other and if this is just the start or a very long night of fighting and B) Everyone deserves to have someone having their back.
If two women are fighting, I would also be alarmed if one of them is significantly smaller or tinier. Some women can get violent too.
I once witnessed, with a bunch of people, how a woman started beating at that man. But the man was screaming rather loud before that. So wasn't as clear in the beginning, that the woman was the bad person here. She took his phone out of nowhere. And he had trouble getting it back, without having to hurt her and being called out as the one harassing her. Thankfully someone had already called the police and when I went by I picked up on that story, as the police was taking the men's statement. The woman was handcuffed and in the back of a police car.
I'm sorry. I truly am. The reason we're fucked has nothing to do with sexism or racism or bigotry or any of our favorite focal points. It's just money, an imaginary commodity. Social justice is admirable and morally right but until the real sustainable future matters more than making money It's all pointless.
I get certain things are difficult to understand at times but what I do is measure it out,
So for a brief example
We now have enough money but still have big0try, so we “don’t” have enough for everyone 😉 👀
We have no big0try, but still have money problems, BUT now that everyone is allowed at the table we can come up with some big brain ideas I.e that equals no more money problems
Cause if you didn’t catch on a lot of the money problems ARE because of the big0try
@@wiglicious. you completely missed the point
@@Andrew-zq3ip you do realize most people are stuck trying to pay their bills so we all don't starve to death right
If you want people to stop worrying about money, GIVE US SOME MONEY!!!!!! Damn brother, I would love to focus my time on ANYTHING but trying to make money unless what im doing also makes me some money.
If you have some grand-standing idea to change the entire system around us so it incentivizes people to stop trying to compete for money, I would love to hear it.
Oh please, the world isn't any worse than when we all were living in the dirt drinking parasite ridden wine sludge, eating mercury and bacteria tainted bread, living in lead tinged houses and dying from mild scratches. The fact that THIS is the worst we are after having to evolve to survive all that other shit is impressive. So many other species got so much more horribly screwed in the process of evolving that we really haven't done too badly.
But the other way to look at what you just said is that we overcame all of that just to treat each other like shit, which is obviously a problem
@@kayla3246 I don't think you quite comprehend what evolution is, but generally speaking, no, we do not treat each other poorly. Most certainly not at any rate different than any other species. 25 wolves hardly get along in 100 square miles nonetheless than six million humans in 20 square miles. We are actually superior at cohabitating purely based on statistics.
Not really sure how what I said gave you the impression that I don't understand what evolution is but okey dokey
And wolves don't have the reasoning capabilities of people so I don't really know what you're getting at to be honest
@@kayla3246 To clarify my point of view, because you are not seeming to grasp it fully: Humans didn't turn out poorly. We aren't fucked. We turned out exceptionally despite what nature has thrown at us. And are improving everyday. I rebuke your opinion that humans treat each other poorly, because in comparison to all the other species that have been evolving right along with us, we are statistically more compassionate, more cooperative, and more cohabitiable than any other species. ESPECIALLY if you account for our size.
From what I see it seems is mainly a usa problem...
Are you a woman from another country?
@@wiglicious. yes
I want to share with you the truth and life.
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). God is holy and the punishment for sin is Hell. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 6:23). Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6). He died on the cross and rose again on the third day for us all. Repent, believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and follow Him.
are you ever going to speak for Palestine?
He's a content creator, not your activism robot
What part of, " women in Palestinian society " would you like him to comment on. Since women's studies and social studies is his specialty... Not middle eastern politics.
Past history aside, I think it’s pretty normal to wonder if a person you support is currently ok with the ongoing Gen no cide happening right now, that could be stopped right now. Before it is too late.
Consequences are important when the stakes are this high.
For what it's worth, I have already made 4 videos about it and posted over 100 stories on Instagram about it sharing content from experts that I respect.
Do you speak for women's right ever? DO they?