Birdshot for Home Defense?!?! Safe Tactic or Bad Planning?
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- After my Shotgun Myths video came out there were a LOT of viewers out there who claimed they had solved all of life’s tactical problems by choosing birdshot for their home defense shotguns. Is this a good idea or simply something that makes us feel better and doesn’t accomplish what we think it will?
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Officer Gregg
P.O. Box 7531
Visalia, CA 93290
Aren't you supposed to tag your video with " i'm what you'd call an expert"...?
Only non-experts feel the need to use that line. Kinda pompous in my humble opinion.
@@OGsDangerShow Isn't that what paul harrell says at the end of his videos?
@@OGsDangerShow 😆 🤣 😂 😹 I've said it before, and I'll say it again: OG, you are my spirit animal.
I believe OG does qualify as an "expert".
Yeah he does say that.... as a joke. You'd have to get his dry sense of humor to understand that though. Oh and comparing O.G.'s Danger Show to Paul Harrel is like comparing Nut'n Fsncy to Forgotten Weapons. They are proverbial apples and oranges.
My dad was shot in the stomach with birdshot while on duty as a Detroit Police Officer. It was at close range from the other side of a door and left about a 6” hole almost all the way through him. Many many surgeries later he was fine but never the same. Birdshot is not a joke.
Thanks for your report. There's soooo many inexperienced "experts" out there parroting some BS their favorite idolized tacticool tight pants operator spewed out. There's a couple forum websites where these kiddies congregate so I try to avoid them. I feel sorry for your dad having so many surgeries plus limiting his life. I was on a PD for 30 years and should've been blasted at least 4 times for bad decisions and getting ambushed. That's just the obvious times I know and no idea how many close calls where someone didn't act. No matter how careful you are, sometimes s**t happens.
Birdshot definitely will be fatal if the shot column is still clustered together. But as the pattern spreads each little pellet is more and more on its own. How far away will the shot column be "one piece"?? That all depends on many factors, much more than a single projectile. Load power/velocity, how many pellets (2 3/4, 3" or 3.5" or mini shell) pellet size, pellet material (steel sux), design of the wad, material of the wad, and the choke constriction.
I've noticed some dishonest "testing" to discredit or poo poo the deadly power of close range birdshot. They'll use some bottom end, low powered #8, 1oz with a cylinder or Imp cyl choke to "prove" their point. Why don't they use good ammo like 1 1/4 oz Win Duck/Pheasant load with a full choke?? Because it would prove them wrong and they wouldn't have anything to bitch about to their fan club kids.
One other thing, none of these "operators" have spent 15 years in CSI going to hundreds of death scenes involving countless unique methods with more than half involving gun shots. Firearms projectiles do strange inexplicable things at times.
@@LuvBorderCollies +1 on all your comments. I grew up hunting ruffed grouse in Northern Minnesota. We used to cut down sapling trees with #6 birdshot. I've shot enough things - grouse, squirrels, boards, trees, posts ... many other things that I can't mention in a public forum with #6. I suppose somebody who's only popped a few shells at the range is much more impressionable to the shit talkers on the forums. I would not want to be hit with #6 at in-house distances.
Unlike you, I've never been hit, thank God. Thanks for your service, brother.
@@crayolascents Shooting trees just brought back a memory from 1980. Spring turkey hunting in the Black Hills is tough going on vehicles and legs. Our borrowed 4x4 pickup was on a worn trail high up in the "hills", when the rear differential got high centered on large rock covered with snow.
Shortened version is nothing we did could move it. Let's make a pole so one of the locals started shooting the base of a 4" skinny pine with a .357 Mag, doing a little damage.
Then someone said use a 12 gage and that tree was down in a few shots. We used the tree to lift and push the truck rear off the rock. And away we went.
Its the hardest hunting I've ever done in my life which is saying something. You are always walking uphill never downhill or so it still seems. 😄
Great post@@LuvBorderCollies
It depends on what size birdshot it is. Also yours is an extreme example. God bless your dad.
The whole reason to select projectiles for reduced penetration, I thought, was that they either won't go all the way through the bad guy, or if they do, they're going through with so little remaining energy that they're basically harmless. Using rounds that have reduced penetration never absolved anyone of the accountability that comes with pulling a trigger. I.e. don't put rounds where there isn't a bad guy.
OG you are much more than “just a guy on the internet”, we appreciate the years of experience behind your choices. Great demo and information!
Thanks Marvin. Unlike some video gun guys, I don’t like to call myself an expert. Kinda pompous.
@@OGsDangerShow and that’s why I love your content because as bad ass as it is to be an operator and super tacticool LOL I’m just an average dad with a wife and infant son trying my best to protect myself my family and our home in thes trying times your a no billshit kinda guy no super tough guy act no ima big bad operator nothing lol just an average joe like myself doing the best he can thanks man ❤️🇺🇸😤
The threat that no one seems to be talking about when your home is invaded by turkeys. Salmonella. If you blow uncooked giblets through your child's wall that's a major bacterial load.
How about just a MAJOR LOAD? Man that feels better…….😮💨😮💨😮💨
Indeed. Cross contamination is actually a topic that's not discussed enough these days.
🤣🤣🤣
@@joshuagibson2520 hahaha yes correct and so are knee bucklers…… major loads take a lot out of the best of man! 😖😖😲😲😮💨😮💨😵💫😴😴😴😴😴
@@Marcus2750-u1t Major load is the reason they are having to worry about jr now LOL
So, considering I already knew this, the point is don't freaking miss. Know your target, and what is BEHIND your target
Very good comment! 🐉🤠👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Back in the '90's I lived in a city. I lived alone but there were houses all around in every direction. My concern then was could a pellet make it into someone else's home. For that reason I chose bird shot over buck. Now I live in the "country", the nearest house being 1/2 mile away. My gun is loaded with 00 buck these days. Each person has to evaluate their own situation and choose the best choice (compromise?) they can. Great video as always OG! Thanks.
Same here... I moved from clownifornia to a remote area in the woods. I would have a hard time hitting a neighbor with a slug... went from bird shot to buck shot
i have the same thought. its just my wife and i no babies or baby turkeys im worried that the rounds will exit the kitchen wall, go through the carport, a closet, some paint cans, and into the turkeys in my neighbors house.
I always tell people, the rules of firearms safety don't stop applying because you're in a gun fight "know you're target and what's beyond it". If you're shooting a bad guy with your loved ones right behind them you have failed. Any bullet capable of killing a human being is going to penetrate several layers of drywall. Using birdshot is just flat out a bad idea. If it's all you have then use what you have but otherwise use buckshot.
Another solid video OG. Always enjoy them
Spot on
it depends on the type of birdshot being used.
if you're using #8 clay shot yeah it's a dumb idea but something like #4 Pheasant going upwards of around 1350fps is going to mess an intruder up especially at across the room distances but slow down enough after it hits two layers of drywall that anyone on the other side won't get too hurt.
now if you are using a full choke as well the spread will most likely be a bit too tight for the drywall to effectively slow a lot of the pellets if you miss the intended target but it will be devastating to the would be threat.
Observations: Those of us living in places (outside of USA) where Federal Flite Control is not found, are doomed to endless experimentation with whatever buckshot is available.
Thank you OG for another excellent demonstration of better shotgun use for defensive purposes. We all have to think "angular" for civilian use of firearms. Angles are angels inside one's home when the uninvited visits for evil purposes.
Any shotgun ammo will do the job with some slight changes in tactics. As you well know, sir! Stay safe down there.
Shotguns are also able to be dumped and refilled.. that said, powder and wadding is different between shells.
@@PureCountryof91 Reloading factory bird shot rounds with some thing else sounds like an exciting and cost-effective endeavor
Walls outside the US are often more sturdyly built.
"OG's Danger Nursery". LOL! What a great myth busting, realistic video. Love your presentations OG. Thanks for standing at the wall for the rest of us. Semper Fi,
Thanks for stopping by, Marine! Happy late USMC birthday. 🇺🇸
This was a quality production...Do Glaser Safety Slugs next.
I don’t have any. And can’t find anything like that right now. I do have some frangible 9mm and 45 rounds to test soon.
@@OGsDangerShow I tried some of the frangible ammo, the polymer and copper powder kind in 40s&w broke up after going through a rabbit, nothing but small fragments, and a big piece of base left.
The other compressed tin and copper powder, can be recovered after striking loose sand, grass soil, and some types of hard dirt, definitely more durable.
Are Glaser safety slugs still a thing?
@@davidjernigan8161 Yes, they are. The copper jacket with the blue tip contains a lot of #12 shot (sometimes bigger shot). It is NOT a good penetrator, and is not designed to be.... one or two shirts is all I would use it on. HOWEVER, due to the rotation of the bullet, when it hits the target, the shot is dispersed widely by centrifugal force and shreds soft tissue to an unbelievable degree, at least for a few inches. The Glaser Safety Slug was designed to not penetrate interior walls, and it was designed to shred vital organs into a gooey mess. I think it does both well. I have never heard of a person taking a Glaser into center of mass and surviving. It would (IMHO) also be a surgeon's nightmare, trying to get all those very widely dispersed # 12's out of a living body. The problem with Glasers in 9mm and .45 is that they don't feed well in semi-autos, due to the blue plastic sealing material hanging up on feedramps. They work well in wheelguns.
@@davidjernigan8161 that’s what im saying. Where the hell you gonna find some of that
When most people talk about birdshot they think of something like #6 or smaller but there are rounds with larger pellets for big birds like goose, something like BB and T shot. Back when 00 and slugs were scarce I tested both rounds to at least see what the pattern looked like at self defense ranges It was pretty impressive from the size of the holes. I did not have a meat target to test penetration but it would good to see how well it penetrates. I was using my Winchester SX4 with a 28" barrel. I don't have a dedicated self defense shotgun.
I have a 5 round pump shotgun stoked with vintage 1975 Remington 3" Magnum #2 all lead goose hunting loads.
#2 lead shot is significantly different than #8 skeet or field loads.
I know they are a compromise, but I own and live in a duplex and any 34 caliber 00 buckshot pellet that may miss the intended bad guy meat target may be going into the neighbors bedroom at night if they are not dispatched at the entry.
I've debated my choice many times and I think I'd rather have some errant #2 pass through than 00 buckshot.
Shot placement is key to preventing miss or pass through and at my interior distance of less than 20', the pattern doesn't really leave the shot cup much at all.
As always good video OG.
I’m just glad you’re loaded up for defense, sir. In your scenario you’ve got great stuff. Stay safe. Tell your neighbors to keep it down over there.
Excellent choice! I live in an Apartment and used a 12 Gauge pump loaded with #4 Birdshot for the same reasons.
I like a 1 1/4 ounce turkey load of #4 shot. Like you said, the distance is going to be from one side of the room to another. At that distance it is almost like a frangible slug.
People expect shit they hear to work and don't check it. It's a very dangerous way if thinking. Especially in something like a home intruder when your families life is on the line.
Thanks for this video. Maybe like many folks I had the magazine tube of my 870 stuffed with two birdshot shells, a couple 00 buck, and a slug. It now carries three 00 buck, and two slugs. No kids in the house, but I’ve made sure the line of sight from my defensive position doesn’t include any windows. (I want to be a good neighbor and not put any holes in the side of their house.)
I thought the over penetration proponents were talking about talking about is if you hit the target. Not if you miss . So Re do the experiment with bird shot, and two thawed turkeys on each side of the dry wall. First with birds shot at 10 yards then double 00 buck. See how many pellets of each make it through the turkey and the dry wall to hit the other turkey.
The only thing I wish people would show is what a heavy hunting birdshot load would do, #8 shot is almost exclusively a "target load" , clay pigeons etc. #2 lead or steel bbb shot are considerably more powerful and "might" be a good choice for some people?!. Everyones needs are different due to the proximity of neighbours and the layout of their homes etc. Excellent video OG!
I agree. I cut open a #2 shot round last night, and I can only imagine that it would do serious damage. I would like to see a test with a BB round or #2.
Agreed.
@@seanomeirs8362 BB shot is better than birdshot, but typically it's found in heavy turkey loads which have more recoil than standard buckshot. #1 buckshot is the smallest size shot that will reliably penetrate over 12" of gel. It is the #1 man stopper for a 12 gauge. I would NEVER go smaller than #4 buckshot.
@@rileyneufeld7001 I have Aguila Mini Shells that have 7 -#4 buckshot and 4- #1 buckshot totalling 5/8 of an oz. going 1200 fps. My Mossberg 590A1 with the Opsol adapter cycles them great, and it holds many more rounds in the magazine.
It would be interesting to fire the shot with the turkey in front and see the penetration after going through the intended threat.
Great video Officer Gregg on being accountable when letting loose shotgun energy in quarters, regardless of birdshot or buck. Your quick picture of your multi million dollar California mansion was enviable!!
That’s about the only thing we can afford in California anymore.
One of the saddest things I saw before I retired from the job (fireman) was a 19 year old girl murdered by her abusive ex boyfriend. He broke into her home and at almost contact distance fired one round of 12 ga. birdshot into her right ribcage. Destroyed her liver and right lung. The entrance wound was fist sized, there was no exit. As an aside I'm sure that OG can verify that God made firemen so cops could have heroes too...😉
😆 or something like that. We call them our Evidence Eradication Team. 🤦♂️
@@OGsDangerShow or contamination team😁
@@OGsDangerShow You're using my line but its not copyrighted so go ahead. I came up with it when I was in Traffic Crash Reconstruction in the late 80's. Nothing like a 4" firehose being drug across a scene literally erase evidence.
When I got into CSI in the latter 90's that label was doubly reinforced. My goal was to try to beat the FD to a scene but that didn't work out well most times.
Joeseph
Apparently not in Houston thank’s to proposition plan B.
It has caused quite the rift between the departments.
No Joe, that can't be possible. OG just told me that 12ga birdshot would only make her mad. You must be mistaken.
Finally a video about Gregg’s retirement plans as a picture framer.
Way 2 go, OG! If at first you don't succeed at pissing off the internet, just TRY HARDER! 🤣
The sign should read; "Baby Behind Board." I believe you used the appropriate rounds for shooting a turkey. You blew his head clean off... Thanks for another educational and entertaining video!
The only reason I can see for using birdshot in a house is to cut down overpenetration /through the house./
If you live in a suburban residential community and start rocking slugs there's a decent chance that those slugs can go right on though your house and into somebody else's. Asking birdshot to stop at a single drywall wall is too much, but asking it to stop after two/three interior walls and an exterior wall is significantly more feasible.
Thanks for the info and all of the work it took to actually show the "least lethal" round cuts thru bedroom walls just fine.
But OG, you haven’t used a ballistic diaper! 🤪
Yea, I saw the package, Said Huggies all new with Kevlar.
From a Canadian viewer, I appreciate your videos and your opinion, since you are not just some knucklehead on CZcams, you actually have real world experience .God Bless you and your family.
Thanks for watching and stopping by, Mr. Brown. I’m glad you like the show.
Thank you O.G. for information, fun, and a good finger wiggle. Stay safe.
The turkey baby is hilarious!!! My thinking on birdshot is that its dsigned to down a bird at some distance without disintegrating the bird. In self defense you want to down the intruder with the result he cannot ever get up to harm anyone again ever!! 00 buck or 000 buck ate more controlled even out to a fair distance.
What... you mean Hollywood lied to me when Jason Bourne took that assassin out with a shotgun in the field?
🤣 (Obnoxious sarcasm included)
I suppose next you will say he would not have been able to blow up the propane tank as well?
😉
We tested a lot of different loads in the sheriff's department... Both store bought and homemade.
The absolute best was a stack of dimes over a short brass load.
Did you just take trap loads and stick dimes in it to be around the same weight and then roll crimp?
@@donaldmack2307 basically yes, as best i remember. This was 25 years ago, but Im not sure how else we'd have done it.
It's been demonstrated by Paul Harrell especially, that properly choked birdshot will penetrate two interior walls and bounce off the exterior wall.
This means it will go through four sheets of drywall, but will not go through the 5th.
It's also been demonstrated that it is still very devastating at 10 yards, even after going through one wall.
If you have ever lived in an apartment, and have been one interior wall away from harming someone on nearly every side of you, birdshot starts to seem very appealing.
The four rules should apply to Home Defense also.
Also, the demo I believe you are referencing was with 1 1/4oz of No 4 shot; the demo using 1 1/8ox of No 8 passed through one interior wall but was stopped by the second one.
Additionally, when looking at potential over-penetration for a hit on target, the No 8 did not pass through the initial wall.
Therefore, the demo in this video just validated Paul's original observation that No 8 shot has a lower probability of fatal over-penetration relative to OG's recommended "serious self-defense loads."
Furthermore, how on Earth do you both blast the same area of drywall, again, AND not bother to thaw out the meat target you're going to cite as evidence of insufficient effect-on-target??
I guess both of us are here to disappoint with our free CZcams content. 🤷♂️
@@OGsDangerShow Paul's content doesn't disappoint.
But his frozen meat disappointed you. I guess I’ll be your black cloud from here on out. You ought enjoy other channels that are more thorough. I’m just here for fun and entertainment.
@@OGsDangerShow What? Yours was the target that was frozen, not Paul's.
As for being a black cloud, you chose to jump on a reply that wasn't even addressed to you.
Bird shot and the 30-30 have something in common. Thier both sorely underestimated!!
A simple fix for the over-penetration problem could be to just build the walls out of some sturdy bricks, Cement/Concrete bricks are good options (specially if you fill their cavities with concrete for extra resistance, but beware that this will add a LOT more weight for the building structure to handle)
Or you can just use hollow points for self defense. I wouldn't call renovating all the house walls with concrete and rebar a "simple" fix.
@@alanxu39361/2" plywood is an easy uograde.
another option could be lining them with 1/4 plywood sheets.
Thank you. I’ve been on the fence on this and had many discussions with others. In reality, if you’re worried about something on the other side of the wall, you have chosen your tactics incorrectly. It is better to get the job done completely, and safely for those you are protecting.
Proper preparation provides positive protection!
Lately I have been moving back to the Fighting Shotgun. Being an R-LEO from N. Cali, I have truly enjoyed your insight into the fighting shotgun. I see you depending a lot on the Beretta 1301 for your content? Even better, as I have just recently got a 1301 LTT. It has been 100% out of the box! Could you do content on how you have found it best to manipulate the 1301? Thank you!
Also see if you can get your hands on a Benelli m1014 and do some content on it. Told you I was getting back to my fighting shotguns! Have one of those also.
Thank you for your work! I find it refreshing the plain talk information without all the made up tactical jargon designed to let us know that you know and we don't!
Thanks for the nice comments, sir. Glad you liked it. And GLAD you made it out of LE. See my video about the Beretta 1301 Tactical that came out last month. I’m still working out with it, but so far it is one AWESOME weapon. I’ll swing by to borrow your 1014 for a comparison video.
You are more than welcome to come and get it for a test!!!!!!!!! However, be advised I now live in Tennessee. Road trip!!!!!!
Always more to learn very thankful for this video, my Dad was a Sheriff and said Bird shot was for Mob control, When Dad was Sheriff more people road horses then drove cars and he carried a double barrel 10 Gauge.
Not a fan of using a shotgun for home defense.
That said, one more thing to consider.
When defending your home with a firearm of any type, conceder the percussion generated by the muzzle blast.
Like to see a video on the effects of in-home use, firing a gun inside a hallway with Db monitored.
Pistole to Rifle. Shotgun if that is all you have. But the blast that is deafening without ear protection.
Whatever you use, remember you will only get 2 to 3 rounds off before you can't see or hear. Make them count.
Outstanding comment. That is something to keep in mind.
A friend who owned several rental properties in less than desirable neighborhoods got tired of fixing holes where his tenants had punched holes in the drywall. His solution was 1/2" plywood. I don't know how well it would stop birdshot, but it certainly has resulted in a couple of broken hands.
Anyone that uses birdshot for self defense, including out of pistols, is simply begging to be killed. It's a bad idea, don't do it! Well done OG!
Cheers,
jc
Yeah, you're just handicapping yourself.
I carry snake shot in the chamber (we have lots of poisonous snakes) it cycles reliably in my pistol.
Years ago working the Emergency Room we had a patient come in complaining of chest pain. Part of the workup protocol is a chest xray. There was discovered several tiny artifacts on the image. It turned out he had been shot during a home invasion several days prior. Not in the chest, but in the butt and hamstrings. The tiny birdshot had traveled through veins back to the heart and lungs. He had multiple very tiny skin wounds, and a bruise with no penetration on his lower thigh presumably from the wad impact.
During a home invasion as a bystander or as the home invader?
So... if you're hunting drywall, use bird shot. Got it.
Thanks for proving birdshot is perfect for my situation!
Perhaps there is a home use for those "social distancing" footprints used on supermarket floors?
Bad guy, *STAND HERE:*
👉🏼👉🏼👉🏼 👣
"in my last video I didn't piss off everyone, so lets give it another try" - This is why I come here :) the wit, and then the content.
MAC says you can't slice pie with a shotgun. My take away is carve the turkey with shotgun, slice pie with a bayonet
You probably can't get people to put up bids of over $1,000,000 when you put them up for sale on Gunbroker either. I don't watch Timmy anymore after his stupidity with the Hungarian SVDs. If you are not aware of this incident, please watch czcams.com/video/gs-ml9BgxbE/video.html as an example.
@@COIcultist But most importantly his content is just uninteresting and unintelligently presented.
@@jimyeats Well I must confess I watched him and found some of his content interesting, but that trick turned my stomach.
Yeah...but you didn't have a onesy on the turkey. Onesies are well-known for their stopping power (and "spit up" absorption).
when i was little and i was watching american movies from the "comfort" of my eastern-european apartment i always wondered why american have house made out of cardboard.
later in life i concluded that hollywood took a lot of liberties in their movies, and they exagerated a lot.
then youtube became a thing. among the cat videos, baby sharks and bad singers there were a lot of DIY channels. and guess what: americam houses are made out of cardboard; with gypsum. drywall... yes, better than cardboard, but not by much.
i asked around and i found out that bricks (even the cheap aereted bricks) are very expensive in the usa. what nobody can tell me is WHY???????
In some parts of the US houses are made of bricks. Most places I’ve lived the walls are drywall. Much stronger than cardboard but certainly not bulletproof.
Cause wood at least used to be affordable there. Same goes for heating and AC and think about the climate in a lot of states and the potential for earth quakes and storms. It's affordable to rebuilt as well. Imo, the stone ones are far better staying cool in the summer too when it's built right. The 3 little piggies were right.
Yes, I always wondered about that as well, but I guess that's how it is "over there" 😉
most of the walls in my apartment are solid concrete, which is great for safety, but sucks if you need to drill holes in the walls 😆
I can't tell you why bricks are so expensive, as I don't know. But yes, drywall is used extensively since it's relatively inexpensive, relatively fire resistant, and easy to replace if you have to do utility or other maintenance inside the wall. It wasn't always this way, as I live in a house built in the 1950's that uses planks behind the drywall, which makes a strong wall with good sound dampening.
@@TheNetsrac
Any cheap drill with hammer function will do. I don't have to be worried to hang a big TV, heavy pictures, secure hanging book shelves or a handle above the tub. The big upside with drywall is laying cable and less harm if you tend to punch walls.^^
Birdshot is, blinding, or making a knee lame so they cannot escape/chase.....if worried about allies behind walls, aim at feet, or learn to drop to a knee and fire up.
Good video explaining the actual deadly consequence of ANY hole making projectile.
Thank you for the video OG 👍
I had no idea that a round of birdshot would penetrate that much considering how small and lightweight the pellets are.
I thought they would be stopped by the first or second layer of drywall
P.S Sergio's gun looks awesome
P.P.S. You may have shot the baby, but at least you didn't put it in a corner 😜
Cheers
😆 Nobody puts Turkey Baby in a corner.
@@OGsDangerShow old enough to appreciate, and still have longing. . .
Well done. Sending this to my son. He was wanting to use bird shot for home defense. I said not a good idea. Now he can see why.
If he has other ammo I’d recommend using it. Only pick birdshot if it’s the last thing on store shelves.
Overpenetration is after you've hit the threat and it's gone through them
Are you sure?!!! 😆
@@OGsDangerShow
I like your vid
But
Yes I'm sure
@@OGsDangerShow
The home defense ammo may maim an attacker, but it can also put innocent bystanders in danger. To help you understand the possible danger of over-penetration, let’s define it. Over-penetration occurs when the bullets go through walls and flesh farther than other self-defense projectiles.
I don't believe everything Google says but I looked this up after I made my comment
not before
missing is unheard of and computer says no.
@@onpsxmember
Your intelligence is unheard of
Try putting a bad guy in front of the wall and see how much goes through to the wall
I only have a 12 gauge with a fully rifled barrel. Using 2 3/4" hollow point sabot slugs, over penetration has always concerned me. I've never been able to test for this, and really can't afford to. I don't suppose you could make a video on that?
Insulation installation bare-handed? That’s a real man.
You should see when I put it on toast.
I ordered those segmenting slugs from Tim, the ballistic Machinist (got them through detroit company or something like that). You still don't want to miss in your house. There is no magic projectile. I like the idea of minimizing the amount of drywall work I have to do if I miss
Hey officer Greg!!! I have a question for you I make 7/8 slugs from bird load I love them and I'm accurate with them, do you think it's a low enough velocity to NOT blow threw a bad guy? I make mine from federal bird load and a Lee 7/8 key mold. Alot of people make thease lower velocity slugs and I hear you even people using for them deer hunting what do you think?
I think they’d be just fine for knocking down deer or bad dudes. But be careful about using homemade ammo for self defense. It’s usually frowned upon in court and they can really burn you for using stuff like that. 🤷♂️
Make a plan, have a dog, be pro active….. great advice Officer Gregg…. Survival happens before you are in the situation.
I live in a house from 1860.
its lathe and plaster, i wonder how much tougher that is than drywall?
I want to see an 1860's home defense video of all types of blackpowder projectiles.
Great question.
I'd really like to know the answer to this.
much more
@@airgunfun4248 Yep, but how much more,?
@@JoseyWaless Do OG's DIY skills extend to making up lime plaster and plastering laths?
You mean "Insulation is NOT a bullet stop?"
Birdshot is effective against birdbrains'
Many years ago, I was called up for Jury Duty. It was the 1980s and I was a 19 year old college student, still living at home with my parents. I was eager see how things really went during a trial, so it was kind of exciting and I was looking forward to hearing all the juicy details of the crime. During the interview one of the lawyers asked me if I had any firearms at home.
I said, "Yes, both my father and I are avid hunters and target shooters."
He said, "How many firearms do you have in your home?"
I said, "Between my father and I and the type of game we hunt, we have a couple of high powered rifles, three shotguns, and for target shooting we have six revolvers."
He said, "So you have eleven guns in your home for self defense?"
I sai, "No Sir. None of those weapons are used for self defense."
He said, "You expect me to believe that with all those guns in your home that none of them are loaded?"
I said, "Sir, in other places I have lived, yes, I kept one loaded, but here I live in a quiet neighborhood, there is little to no crime, and, yes, I what I am telling you is that the firearms and the ammunition are in separate rooms. You see, my older sister has separated from her husband and come back home to live, and her son is at that age where he gets into everything, so the guns are locked in my room and the ammo is in my parents' room."
He said, "So what is your plan if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night? Why wouldn't you keep at least one gun loaded?"
I said, "With my parents sleeping on the other side of that wall, and my sister and nephew sleeping on the the other side of that wall, and drywall not being designed to stop a bullet, I'm not too comfortable with shooting inside my house."
He said, "So what would you do, then?"
I said, "I have a nice set of golf clubs standing in the corner of my room, and the five iron feels nice with a good grip. Not too heave, not too light. I figure between my rottweiler and I, we should be okay."
He said, "Your Honor, we would like to excuse Mr. Barre from serving on the jury at this time...."
I didn't find out all the details, as I would have liked to, but it turns out it was a case of a middle of the night break in where the homeowner, an older man in his 70s, had a .22 handgun and shot the 27 year old intruder (who had a knife in his hand) as he came into the old man's bedroom. But, while better than nothing, a .22 doesn't have much stopping power (especially against a methed out burglar) it didn't kill him. Before he could take a second shot, the intruder proceeded to stab the old guy... a lot! I think it was 40 some-odd times and trying to claim self defense. It wasn't a high profile case though they did move the trial to another venue, so I never did find out how it ended.
Did you change your self defense tactics based on the case scenario? I've setup my wife with Ruger 22SR for home defense but I'm trying to figure out a different strategy that works better but also one she can handle. 9mm is too much for her.
@@BigTomInTheBasement No, sir. When I lived alone and my nearest neighbor was 200 yards up the road, I had loaded guns in th bedroom and living room. What changed my tactics was the different situation. See, my Dear Ol' Dad was a safety weenie. He put in 27 years with the Air Force, and then went to work for Fed-OSHA as a compliance officer, among other. By the time he died, he was head of safety at NTC Ft. Irwin where all of our Army grunts train for desert warfare. I mention all that to show that, Dad knew safety. Well he drilled it into my sister and I our whole lives. I'm 55 now, and my first thought about almost any activity is, "Do I need a hardhat or helmet?" and "Where's that bullet gonna go?"
As for your wife's situation, have you thought about sub-sonic rounds? A lot less recoil. Also, maybe a .25 or .32 caliber would suit her better. Anyway, a .22 is still a deadly round. you just have to know where to shoot them and be able to hit that mark, so practice, practice, practice. You can never have too much time on the range. Make sure she knows how to break the gun down, too. Not only for cleaning, but if it malfunctions or jams she will need to know how to clear it and get it operational again.
I cannot ask for more ... Science , visual effects , gun and fun
You will bankrupt the discovery channel 🔥🔥👌👌
Oh my the pacifier was an even more unexpected touch
That is nicest wall target I've ever seen. I know who to call when I build my cabin
I’ll be waiting with tool belt ready and loaded.
I like your style OG that opening was perfect sir.
Drilling screws with a border drill is diabolical 😂😂
Just for fun I put up a piece of 3/4" pine board at 7 yards and shot it 6 times with my Mossberg 500 with a 28" barrel and a full choke tube loaded with Federal low brass number 8 skeet loads. I was surprised to find 6 quarter sized holes front and back in the board. Now I know that small shot will definitely make a thug go down and stay down. That said, I keep my old 500 stuffed full of 3" 15 pellet 00 buck and 3" Nitro turkey "4 loads staggered with the buck first then a turkey load ,another 00 and so forth. My 500 is a little strange because it will hold 6 rounds of 3" shells while every other standard 500 will only hold 5.One extra round is fine by me. Take care and be safe.
Can you maneuver well with a 28 inch barrel in tight spaces?
Poor turkey baby. Thanks for dispelling that all too common myth.
The solution is simple. Put the crib inside a couple of screens made out of 5/8 plywood if you’re concerned enough about “over penetration” to use birdshot. Once the kid is old enough to escape the crib teach them to duck... 🤷♂️
Thank you Greg, for saying the blinding truth as it exists. Never, should you plan for rounds going through your walls, unless you're building a house and putting anti-balistic materials in your construction (not a bad idea, actually).
The whole secret to being willing to arm yourself and defend against intruders is...
A- Know your environment. It may sound silly but if you ask people what's where and how their home is laid out, many will have to stop and think before answering, which is normal. It's just not something we consciously keep in our minds. Therefore it stands to reason that we can't think of those things under the pressure of intrusion.
B- Train with your weapon or don't try to use one. Know what it will do and how it will do it with what ammo.
C- Breath, focus, be patient for the opportunity for an effective shot placement and *don't miss.*
I know that sounds easier said than done but, if you train towards that goal and fight the "panic mindset" of reacting blindly, you'll reduce the chances of errant rounds and increase the chances of hitting your target by a great many times.
Simply letting rounds fly, hoping to either hit the target or scare him away is a recipe for disaster but, it's how our base mind reacts under true, "life or death" (as we perceive it) situations, as the mind blocks out everything it deems superfluous thought. Therefore, our reactions must be honed to the point of being instinctive response. That only comes with repetition and lots of it.
I highly recommend studying some psych books/material on "The reactive mind" and learning how we think and process information in times of stress. Understanding how we react to certain circumstances greatly helps us develop a positive "response set" foe the things we can encounter in life, like when people break in to our homes. Knowledge is power and being confident in your knowledge and training is being powerful over adverse circumstances in your own home.
A lot of people have closer distances in their homes to work in than ten yards (30' is a long way) and that does keep the lead together longer which pretty well ensures it's going through walls. But, bird shot is designed for, you guessed it, birds. To take down a bird (#7/8 being a small bird) *without* tearing it to shreds. The muscle structure and density in a bird is much different than that of a person and expecting #7 or 8 shot to penetrate deeply enough to do debilitating damage (unless you're close enough the shot hasn't spread) to someone who very well may be on a drug that takes away his feeling of pain is not realistic. However, should you be lucky enough to hit soft tissues like the throat, eyes, groin (without bunched up denim in the way), etc. you may effectively stop an intruder but that's a "holy grail" shot. Other than that, you can pretty well figure birdshot as an effective "deterent" at best, sending a dejected, opportunistic burglar on his way, rather than being a stopping force.
And an FYI, at close range, birdshot will stay close enough together to basically act as a maliable slug when bouncing around your house. Creating wax/shot slugs (available on CZcams) will keep the lead together for more efficiency at range and is a definite, "better than nothing" alternative if you can't get buckshot or slugs. JUST BE SURE that you understand everything you need and are doing anytime you violate the sanctity of a virgin... Round. 😉
Have a great Thanksgiving. Say hi to the entire Taylor clan!
@@OGsDangerShow
Thanks, O. Greg... I sincerely hope you all have a great day!
Thank you! This is good info for apartment dwellers as well.
*hacks holes in the wall and pours concrete.*
The only problem I saw with this video was not every rubber ducky had protective head gear
There are so many videos that proves at a real close gun fight slug buck and bird does practically the same damage at a normal inside a house range
My shotgun was a 870 Wingmaster with a 30" barrel with full choke. I did not use it for home defense. I used a 38 revolver for home defense.
HUMOR & COMMON SENSE !!!! 1 of the reasons why your subscribers love ya man
Thanks Mickey. Glad you like the show. Not sure my act would qualify as humor though. 😆
@@OGsDangerShow always our pleasure friend
Birdshot made into waxed slugs could be a compromise if that is the only ammo you can buy. I do prefer the Federal flight control in double OO better though.
Somebody mentions wax slugs and half the readers think of Barry.
@@COIcultist "Somebody mentions wax slugs and half the readers think of Barry."
True. I am among them.
My neighbor is experimenting with 7mm aluminum balls in a 3 inch shell, he is using the shortest wad he can find to get the largest number of pellets. The pellets spread faster than lead but slow down much faster remaining lethal out to 25 yards but little more.
Bigger holes than birdshot but limited range, it might be OK for indoors.
you could line the drywall in your childrens room insulation with kevlar roll to mitigate risk
sounds like a ery blunt way of putting one of the cardnel rules of gun safety "know your target and what's behind it" out there.
OG, thanks for these practical application videos! Can you please help me settle an argument with a friend? He always bought into the birdshot can't penetrate walls idea, so I showed him this video. He said, yeah, cool video "but" his walls have double layers of sheetrock on them, and should stop the birdshot no problem. So OG, can you please do a short using this same setup but add another layer of sheetrock to both sides, giving a total of four layers? That would/should convince him that he is out to lunch with his ideas about using birdshot for in-home defense. While at it, could you also rerun this test using a 20 gauge? That should settle it for everyone from all angles. Thanks man for everything you do for us!
I wonder if an old house with plaster walls would be able to stop something. One house I owned had walls that were made with 3 ft wide pieces of drywall like stuff (rather than lath boarding) and plaster on top of it was hard as rock and we had to cut outlets out with a angle grinder and a diamond wheel. House was built in the thirties
Not long ago we.were contending with “law enforcement low recoil” shotgun rounds (read lower velocity). They were touted as a lessor risk of penetrating walls, which we proved completely false doing a similar test (Barney subbed for the diapered turkey). Same series of tests showed the lack of “oomph” caused other issues (would not cycle an 11-87, could not disable a vehicle, etc). Don’t get me wrong though. In the right application (breaching, initial shotgun training new hires,, etc) coupled with an understanding of its limitations, they were decent rounds. Flitecontrol though, real game changer.
FliteControl is the shit. It’s the only thing I use in my social shotguns anymore.
On a sidenote, I live in Los Angeles in a condo complex, I have neighbors directly attached to me. So I prefer to use birdshot in my apartment setting. Yes, birdshot can and will go through drywall, but in no way will it kill anyone outside that drywall, and that's the point. At max I'll be at a 10 foot distance from any perpetrator, and birdshot is plenty to knock him on his ass, and repeated rounds of birdshot in succession will definitely kill anyone that keeps on coming, especially once you get close enough. If I owned my own home, if I lived out in the rural or suburban areas like some of you do, then I would use buckshot or slugs.
OG's point was taken in this video. But I urge people who live in an Apartment setting, or that live in an Urban area like myself, and don't really want to risk killing someone that lives on the otherside of their wall, to try an experiment using birdshot with successive rounds and you will see it's plenty to kill someone IF you needed to. As a Christian, I'm not really in the game to kill people, so birdshot is perfect for me. One shot will put them on their ass, and if they continue to attempt to assail me, I can easily let loose successive shots and IT WILL kill that person. Hopefully that won't ever have to happen.
Mr. OG. Since you are likely to be shooting down a hallway. There may be doors. I wonder if solid doors or metal core doors would be better. Solid doors are common in schools here and are typically hardwood. If someone were super concerned then having a solid core door at each room or a metal clad door (like exterior doors) would be more prudent. In the event of a break in having a solid core door between your kids and the bad guy... or multiple doors would certainly slow them down.
At least bedroom doors would be a good idea. This would also drastically slow down fires as well. They also do wonders for sound transmission.
Using a corded drill to drive screws?..........Danger show indeed! 🤘
Many years ago, I used to believe the myth that birdshot would not penetrate an interior wall. Then I became a Sheriff's Deputy and went to mandatory shotgun training. When I told my Sergeant about my belief in birdshot, he said he wanted to ask me two questions.
His first question was, "Have you or someone you know ever gotten angry and put your fist through a piece of drywall?" I replied that I had. His second question was, "Have you ever hit someone with your fist so hard that your hand went inside their chest to the organs?" I replied "Of course not".
Then he said, "What makes you think that any shotgun round that will penetrate into a human body and damage organs would not pass through drywall?" I had to admit that he had a point there. Forty years later, my home defense shotgun is loaded with Federal Reduced Recoil 00 Buckshot with Flite Control Wad. I have spent my time ensuring that when I engage a target in my home (also 10 yards max) there are no friendlies behind him.
Thanks OG we do enjoy your videos and your humor
I decided to run my own, little experiment as I has some worn/burned, Kevlar gloves lying around. A light bulb went off...💡 And I cut off the fingers,loaded them up with bird shot, sewed them shut and, poof... Instant beanbag rounds! I didn't know how well or if they'd hold together but, it only needed to keep them in "close formation" to get then to the target. I doubled over the material, filled them with the loads from some 23/4", 7.5 shot ans sewed them up with some nylon thread (didn't have any Kevlar on hand). I loaded them back into some shells with a couple lightened powder loads and some standard (low base shells), cut some round, plastic cards and rolled the edges, as I've seen done on TFM.
It worked!!
I didn't get the same results as factory beanbag rounds (of course) but... I'd sure hate to get hit with one. 😀 It held together enough to plug a cantaloupe 🍈 (the only thing I use them for, not my bag) and some magazines.
They definitely kept together enough to to the intended job and didn't bust all apart prematurely, like I expected. Some Kevlar thread would definitely make an improvement.
It's not the easiest (or cheapest?) way to get beanbag rounds but, it's a start, especially if improvising is your only option. The doubled over fingers gave enough flexibility yet tightness of weave to do the job.
When I was in the military, serving as a munitions specialist, improvisation of munitions to do specific/unique and impromptu jobs was kind if "our thing," glad to know I got something useful out of the deal. 😆
This is why I use a 203 for home defense. It detonates on contact. No risk of collateral damage if you hit your target. :)
Maybe retrofitting some of the baby's walls, might be a good idea.
Anybody remember the "Box Of Truth" from back in the day. He would have loved this format.
The turkey in the nappy! 😆
The age old difference between cover and concealment. There are very few places in a house that can be considered cover so you must follow the rule of be sure of your target and what is between and beyond it.
An option could be bird shot in the first barrel then the heaviest load/1 oz slug, that you can get in the second.
love your channel OG, and love Paul Harrels channel. both you and Pauls input are valuable. When Paul says "im what you call an expert" is tongue and cheek, but i think you already know that.
Meh…. We’ve had interactions with Paul. Tried to contact him or share equipment and info. No response. It’s always been my impression that Paul thinks highly of Paul and the rest of the world can go to hell. 🤷♂️
Pro tip: keep your baby swaddled in body armor at all times.
I was always told from the older men in my family: 2 slugs up front followed by four 00 buck.
Sounds pretty solid to me.
Kid's always behind me. With the AR.
Normally an Interary walls won't have insulation. But, with that said, the added insulation only helps to punctuate your point.
I did a demo at a Hunter Safety Class, during the firing a firearm part. I took a winter cabbage and tossed it out in the open. I took the smallest kid there and gave him my 20 ga pump shotgun, with #6 shot. I told him to shoot it. This made Coleslaw out of ¼ of the cabbage. I quickly took the shotgun from him, and everyone walked over to see the damage. They were all laughing about in. In a loud voice I told them that a winter cabbage has the same consistence of a human head. I ejected the empty round and walked away in dead silence.