This stuff changed my mind about MDF projects
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2023
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I use "super refined" MDF by Plum Creek for painted doors. The edges just need one extra coat of primer and sanding and you're ready for finish color. It's also more dense than normal MDF
I find 90% of your advice to be very useful, but please read the comments about using drywall mud. *NOT* the best suggestion.
@@KeithOlson LOL, should I ignore all the comments in favor of using, then?.. Look, I don't need comments on CZcams to tell me what works for me and countless other people. I've done it, they've done it, this isn't something new, It works. I am happy that some people are offering other perspectives, and everyone is free to do it however they prefer. But don't tell me something doesn't work when it has worked just fine for decades.
@@StumpyNubs I'm not saying that it doesn't work, just that it isn't the best option to suggest. Here is a comment that I grabbed to make my point:
"The drywall compound thing is from the 1980’s. Many cabinet shops have been using mdf for raised panels since the 1990’s. We use one of two products. BIN white shellac primer sealer or a catalysed solvent based primer. You sand to 240 grit apply two coats of sealer to the cut area one minute apart. You can use a brush. The BIN will soak in like water then harden. You then sand with 240 and prime the whole panel with your normal waterborne/solvent primer. No drywall compound or bondo."
(What sealed it for me was it being used in cabinet shops for production work.)
Here's another explaining *why* drywall mud isn't ideal:
"Drywall compound is not ideal and will cause finish coatings to flash. White shellac seals much better and is alcohol based without the water of drywall mud swelling the fibers. Dries really fast. Sands better. Don’t use drywall mud on cabinets."
Does that help?
@@KeithOlson "What sealed it for me was it being used in cabinet shops for production work..." -There are all sorts of tools and techniques used in commercial shops that aren't as common in small woodworking shops. To imply that something is not good advice because it may not be used in commercial shops is tantamount to saying I shouldn't make a video about hand cutting dovetails because cabinet shops abandoned that practice a century ago. So what if "cabinet shops" do it a different way "for commercial work." Not everything has to be done the same way. The way I highlighted in this video works, and it uses products that most people are familiar with. I never said it was the ONLY way.
Possibly the most clear and articulate presenter on CZcams
My tip for screwing any kind of fibreboard, chipboard, or strand board is to pour low viscosity superglue (CA) into your pilot hole, making sure to get some all the way around it. It'll soak right into the fibres fast and cure up fast, so put the screw in immediately. This will bind the fibres that the threads cut into & make things far less likely to strip out. Of course you won't ever be able to remove the screw again, but if you're wanting to do that then you should really be using a bolt & an insert instead of a wood screw in the first place, otherwise it will strip out after a couple of times.
Great tip
Interesting tip. Have you done any testing to see if this increases the strength of the connection point at all?
@@stephenrobinson8250 If you mean does it prevent things from tearing apart entirely if too much lateral pressure is added, then not really. All it does is strengthen the fibres around the screw itself & clump them together, so it'll still delaminate or tear apart if it's used to really take any weight, & the difference between a screw & a screw with a load of core stuck to it is negligible. Perhaps it'd make more of a difference with really thick boards where things would need to push through more material before pulling apart.
@@nightcatarts And most folks don't realize that super glue is not, nor ever was, permanent. It breaks down over time. So if you want to add some sort of glue binder... wood glue would last longer and be a superior bond. Just dries slower.
No glue is realistically going to stop the screw from stripping out from overtightening, as when doing it like this the glue is not set yet so it not bonding the fibres together yet. You could theoretically pour glue into the hole, remove the excess with a q-tip, let it set, rebore the hole to the correct size, and then run the screw into the stabilised hole. I did try this as an experiment once using shellac (I used this as dries quickly but doesn't set a q-tip on fire like superglue does) and it works, it is just such a pain in the arse to the point of being useless.
This video should really be called “MDF 101”. Great comprehensive info
"MDF" 101 FOR DUMMIES.
The drywall compound thing is from the 1980’s. Many cabinet shops have been using mdf for raised panels since the 1990’s. We use one of two products. BIN white shellac primer sealer or a catalysed solvent based primer. You sand to 240 grit apply two coats of sealer to the cut area one minute apart. You can use a brush. The BIN will soak in like water then harden. You then sand with 240 and prime the whole panel with your normal waterborne/solvent primer. No drywall compound or bondo.
Bondo works great on MDF scratches and such.
Good tips. Hey Adam, I just made a built in seating area for a kitchen out of paint grade plywood.... what kind of hole filler material would you suggest for the nail holes, also there are a couple places where i need to use a material to finish off plywood edge grain preparatory to priming... I had this stuff called timbermate, but i just ran out... anything from like home depot you could suggest?
As a painter with 10 years experience after completing a classroom apprenticeship, I can verify that BIN or other pigmented shellac is the way to go. When the video prescribed drywall mud, I cringed because that is the last thing I would want to use for this application. Bondo is an excellent product for other applications where you need to build up damage to wood as you would the body of a car. When applied properly, you can nail and screw into it and I used it on my father's house for exterior wood trim and it never failed (the last time I looked at it was after 25 years of the application). The major difficulty with Bondo is that it is often harder than the soft woods you may use it on, and it is very difficult to sand down. For that reason, apply shallow layers waiting enough time for it to get hard, but not letting it cure (I think about 20 minutes is about right); also use a rasp or sharp blade while it is firm but soft to take off bulky waste.
I don't know of a single use that I would recommend for drywall mud other than for use on drywall.
@@mlauntube Try adjusting your hardener ratio and you may have more user friendly results with bondo
@@unclesunbro1577 I'm familiar with Bondo when it is not mixed with a proper ratio. My comments are all in the context of properly mixed Bondo. My comments were in favor of Bondo and I don't think you will find a friendlier result than patching that has lasted for over 25 years.
MDF doesn't just come in a single type. The stuff you get at the large box stores tends to be rather fluffy in the middle and doesn't rout or mill very nicely. It's also much harder to get a mirror finish on it. If you have access to a lumberyard that sells the nicer varieties (things like Glacier Green, Ranger Board, Medite, Arauco double refined, etc) you'll get a better result in my experience.
A lot of the big box stuff is not MDF. Particle board, OSB are not MDF. They are good for some projects but real MDF is a different beast.
@@johnburd3180 All the sheet goods at my local HD & Lowes are clearly labeled. Only MDF is claimed to be MDF. Particle board, MDF, OSB and sheetrock have one thing in common: Get them wet and you will be sorry.
Regular mdf is very porous. The double refined mdf is designed for routing. They started making it for things like routed doors. We use it primarily for raised panels. Once sealed, sanded and painted there is no visible difference between the core and surface.
@@incognitotorpedo42 Water and moisture resistant MDF is more costly but is available and we use them for kitchens. baths, basements or anywhere where moisture is an issue.
Back in the 90’s the waterproof MDF was branded “Medex” and was favored for outdoor routed signs. It is very stable and unaffected by water. It cost double what the regular MDF did and worth every penny.
As someone who lives in the South, don't use MDF. I have cabinets made commercially made kitchen cabinets with that stuff and the high humidity turned them into junk. Once you're burned by MDF, you really don't want to revisit the stuff ever again.
Let's see, toxic dust, very little strength, won't hold screws well, won't glue well, won't tolerate moisture. The only saving graces are it is stable with humidity changes, and is flat (when supported). I think I'll just pay the extra and get plywood.
I wish I'd seen this a year ago. Had work done in the house and the builders used mdf for door facings, skirting boards and shelves. Painted them all with undercoat and gloss. Every single edge swelled up, looked terrible and felt rough. I sanded it all and redid it with different more expensive paint and the same happened. After the 3rd attempt led to the same rough finish I decided to spread a thin layer of filler, sand and repaint. Worked a treat but my wife wouldn't believe it wasn't my fault until she decided to add another shelf herself including painting.
You've opened my eyes to MDF! Thanks.
As a former builder of speaker boxes using mdf I used a biscuit joiner to assemble those and never had problems having to use screws or pilot holes for those. The biscuits also made sure the edges were flush with each panel. My finish for those were a textured paint that easily covered up any "flaws" in the edges and the seams never showed back up later as they aged. Your mileage may vary.
I've been building boxes for a while and it's about to become my main source of income because I make more doing it than my regular job! I saw tests showing that MDF glued to wood actually formed a very very strong bond. I've got to where I prefer using real woods over MDF for enclosures, because it's lighter for shipping and prettier w the wood grain. I saw the research where there was such a tiny difference between the MDF and wood that it didn't matter.
@@johnnycorn7225 Because MDF is denser it will resist vibrating much better than real wood of the same thickness. Do you test your boxes for vibrations and brace accordingly ? Costs for shipping heavier objects does cut into the profits but there are always tradeoffs.
@@davidlong1786 yeah I use dowel rod and triangle bracing with my designs and test them at full power until they can't bounce a quarter around on any of the panels. So many people underestimate the losses of a weak enclosure for sure!! My last customer complained about how heavy his box was and I told him it had to be that way cuz he's running 3K to a single 12 inch a.b godfather
MDF is a great application for biscuits. Domino fan-boys have made biscuits out of fashion, but biscuits have their place :).
@@johnnycorn7225 3K!!!??? he must like annoying people everywhere he goes. I'm guessing he likes the show off factor more than he likes listening to music.
Spax, makes a screw for MDF, it's like magic. No pilot hole is needed even on the factory edge. It is truly amazing!
I've had good results with HighPoint Confirmat screws. They're designed for mdf/particle board but they require a special bit for a pilot hole...I'll have to give the spax screws a try....thanks for the tip
I've used those SPAX ones too on a series of built-ins for my daughter. They are excellent, just don't over-drive them.
@@normanbott Never over drive any type of screw!
Was gonna recommend Spax as well but you beat me to it. I've made our kitchen cabinets & living room entertainment center carcasses out of MDF using biscuits, glue and spax screws. They've been used for over 10 years and haven't had any problems with them.
Thank you for the info. What would be recommended on the size ,length etc. .I am using 3/4 inch MDF for shelves and cubicles ? Thank you folks.
Here is a technique I tried for a project I was working on. Stabilizing MDF with Cactus Juice.... What I learned.... overcut your project by 1/8 inch all the way around for final shaping after it comes out of the oven. MDF will suck up a lot of juice and when baked is extremely heavy. Cured MDF will sink in water but otherwise unaffected. I found that MDF shrinks in the vacuum and cure process, i.e. 3/4" becomes 11/16" . Bits and blades dull quickly.
You can temporarily clamp a strip off material on each side of the mdf edge that is receiving the screw. Then it will not split. For SUPERIOR strength on a 90 degree edge, use a barrel nut and a bolt. The longer the bolt the stronger the joint. I normally use about a 1 1/4 inch bolt. You can countersink the bolt head if needed. I fill the hole with Bondo if it will be painted or veneered. Nasty MDF dust will also ruin your shop vac motor, so be sure and use a dust separator. Thanks for video.
I love mdf. I’ll choose it most any day over “fine hardwood”.
I used MDF for a book case and a computer desk over 20 years ago. The book case is still in use today, but it's an absolute beast to move, weighing well over 100kg. I also used stain on it to give it an almost wood-like look and the trick was to brush the stain and lacquer mix on unevenly, and with a paintbrush that had been chopped up a little, to give a stripy and uneven look
A trick I learned from a luthier is to use Minwax Wood Hardener. This is a thin resin that soaks in and "hardens" the MDF when dry. This is especially useful when using MDF as router templates. Also, whenever I pre-drill MDF for screws or T-nuts, I soak the holes in this stuff. It really does work a treat. (Don't get it on the surface if you can help it... it can be a bit sticky.)
I think you’re probably the best woodworker on CZcams. Your videos are always packed full of information, brilliantly explained. Thank you.
I was taught by an old timer to apply sanding sealer before applying ANYTHING to MDF. It keeps it from soaking up whatever I'm applying. Smooth as glass finish every time!
Out of interest, which sealers have you used? I prefer to seal real wood with water based polyurethane due to the ease of cleanup, lack of solvents, fumes, & not being flammable, but I've not had a lot of luck using it on MDF, perhaps because it takes too long to dry out. Even a small amount tends to swell things up & takes the flatness out of the original surface. Superglue works well but is too expensive for larger areas, so.. shellac?
@@nightcatarts I've had good results with shellac as a sealer on MDF...dries fast and sands easily and can be topped with most anything....
@@KeithMoncrief Cool, thanks. It often seems to come back to shellac but I don't much like working with the stuff, & most of my MDF use has been for unfinished jig type stuff or laminated with wood. Oh well.
@@KeithMoncrief I use shellac or paste wax on MDF when making jigs and stuff for the shop. Sometimes I seal the edges with wood glue. Some jigs are over 30 years old and get a lot of use
@@nightcatarts the shellac (as pointed out by @Stephen Thomas ) is really good as a finish for jigs/fixtures and work surfaces...it hardens the surface of the mdf...makes it more durable and somewhat resistant to glue (especially when topped with paste wax)
I've always used watered down pva glue for sealing the edges of mdf when it's dry, simply sand to a glassy finish
Same here mate
BIN primer does a really nice job sealing the edges too. I’ve made raised panels from mdf and they can be a bear to paint but BIN shellac based primer works better than any other primers I’ve used. Well worth the added cost
I love that MDF is so consistent with no gaps or voids and that it’s the same on both sides, unlike all but the most expensive plywood.
This works on MDF and plywood as well. To treat the edges, Smear a thin layer of wood glue and let dry. lightly sand off the roughness and paint. It's quick and simple.
Making a full video on MDF is a great idea! And, of course, you're just the guy to do it....
I build a lot of MDF assemblies for the display industry. Don't screw MDF- narrow crown staples and glue are as strong as any other method. I use 2P-10 on it or slightly thinned down aliphatic resin glue (so it penetrates the MDf) and narrow crown staples. Then spray it with two coats of shellac which seal the surface as well as the "end grain" so that it doesn't suck up tons of paint- you can use a foam roller or brush for the shellac or the harbor freight $14 HPLV gun on even a pancake compressor works great. I never sand to 220 grit, (usually just pass a 120 block over it) and get up to a piano finish on it with precatalyzed lacquer. If you put drywall compoiund on it and sand to 220, and then spray waterborne on it, the fibers will just lift out and swell the edge anyway, don't waste the time, use shellac instead. If you need to use an alcohol based finish like PVA over the shellac, spray a barrier coat of automotive primer. But I am usually spraying waterborne over the shellac.HD sells a 3lb cut dewaxed shellac as a sanding sealer by the gallon- great stuff, dries in 10m.
I worked with MDF extensively - read that literally hundreds of tons. Best fastener? Cam locks. MDF is quite strong, and has quite a bit of spring in larger panels, making it quite impact resistant. However, moisture is the arch enemy of the stuff. While it is great in constantly dry settings, it is a disaster if it gets wet.
As much of the stuff I have used, in 16, 25, and especially 19 millimeter thickness, around 99% was covered with a laminate of some type. The smooth face provides a great surface for applying a wide variety of laminates.
I'd recommend DuraBond, as it quite a bit more water resistant to humidity. I've used it in bathrooms and Kitchen walls where I expect humidity to be a problem with great results with fiber and over tape on the first layer.
So time ago, a cabinet shop where I worked took on an outside job reducing MDF sheets into dimensional sizes using our sliding table panel saw. Hours of continuous ripping filled our shop with fine dust despite having a collector. Two blade changes and the dust collection machine completely filled several times were some of the highlights of that fiasco. I can still smell and taste the acrid dust to this day
If you're looking for that smooth surface of MDF for painting, another good alternative is MDO (medium density overlay) or HDO (high density overlay). This is exterior grade fir plywood with one or both outer surfaces coated with a thin layer of MDF or HDF, so it has all the advantages of working with plywood but with that very smooth surface. It's expensive, over $100 a sheet; I buy factory seconds for $15 a sheet that usually have one bad edge but the rest is good.
Thanks Mike. Where do you find the factory seconds from?
My local lumber provider also has a plywood they call J-Core. The center is a traditional multi-layer plywood with the outer faces being a thin MDF layer and it is on the MDF layer where the hardwood veneer is. The advantages are a dead flat sheet because of the MDF, it acts like more expensive void free plywood, and with the traditional plywood center it can hold screws really well.
I have used mdo and it can be a great alternative...was first introduced to it when working at a sign company (they used to use it a lot before pvc sheets became so available) one caution though...sometimes we would have to reject a sheet or two because the wood grain had telegraphed through the paper finish. It's a problem that's hard to fix and, if you don't look carefully, it can be easy to miss until finish is applied.
To "waterproof" MDF, I mix 50% linseed oil with 50% mineral spirits and apply until the board no longer absorbs the material. After letting it dry, apply a second coat, 75% / 25% oil to spirits. Sand before final finish. This does not work over a sharp corner, so be sure to break edges. I used this technique to replace a long interior window sill that puddled water every winter and it has held for more than 25 years. The treatment creates a thin casing of waterproofing, so once applied, do not cut into it without repeating coverage.
Another helpful video. The only thing I might add is that for years I've been using Confirmat screws to join pieces of MDF. After a pilot hole is drilled with a specialty pilot bit, these screws make the splitting in MDF a lot less likely. Confirmat screws are available in a couple of sizes, and Spax even makes a #6 size that I've used successfully in 1/2" MDF.
We used a lot of MDF while building department stores. My tip is to use automotive body filler , it sets up quickly, is easy to sand, and takes a smooth paint job just like the factory surface.
Like Bondo?
Body filler is fantastic for repair work on MDF. For sealing the edges, try BIN primer and you won't go back! It's ready to sand just as fast, sands easier, smells less and best selling point, it doesn't need to be mixed in small batches, then applied before it begins to set. Denatured alcohol reactivates hardened brushes/ rollers..
@@jayty1997 I would use BIN for spraying since it comes in convenient spray bombs, but mixing your own shellac really lets you have mnore control over viscosity. Also easier to clean up shellac without pigment.
@mytuberforyou But this discussion is about priming MDF for paint. I've been mixing my own shellac for over 20 years, but will continue to use BIN with a roller to fill and seal edges and details in MDF. The components in BIN do not gum up like a pure shellac will under the heat of a sander. The roller feeds the BIN into the poors in the MDF far better than spraying will.
@@DrMackSplackem I work in a door and window plant. We use bondo all the time for quick repairs in the paint prep shop. But bondo is useless on certain materials. It will dry too quickly or too slowly when seasonal variations change air temps and humidity. It can have varying consistently which makes sanding tricky. It ages badly once the can is opened.
And it's a dumb option on real wood where you want to show grain.
MDF is nice for formers and cuts well with sharp chisels.
I like using MDF for painted floating shelves. Using an oil or solvent based primer rather than water based means no swelling and resulting proudness at joints.
MDF shelving is very prone to sag because it has so little strength. OK for shelves with a few light objects on them and if you use lots of supports, but terrible for many applications. The same is true of MDF's cousin particle board.
@@johnhorner5711 I’ve built shelves 10’ long, no sag. They have support inside, mitered edges. Wasn’t really talking about single sheets.
@@organize1979 Yep! You’re basically-I’m assuming-building torsion boxes, which are quite rigid, MUCH more so than shelves made from a single thickness of MDF; those sag horribly!
Another great video. Thank you. One reason why I have greatly reduced my use of MDF is that I grew tired of dealing with its weight. Also, your comments regarding respiratory protection are spot on. The best thing that one can wear while working with it is a PAPR.
I use watered down wood glue on a 'open' MDF. It dries quickly and makes the edges impermeable to paint. Then..fine fill and smooth before painting.
MDF is great as a stable core for veneering over. Set thicker strips of wood at the edges as edging.
That’s exactly what I do.
If you want to wear a respirator and goggles, get a full facepiece instead, it's way more comfortable. 3M makes a few full facepiece respirators, and one of the other nice things about them is that breathing in refreshes the air in front of your eyes as well, so they don't get muggy like goggles.
@@acmhfmggru It may come down to local environment too. Some places are more or less humid and hotter/colder which is going to affect how much equipment fogs up.
I don’t have a respirator (yet), but an old swimmer’s trick is to put a thin layer of Johnson’s No More Tears shampoo inside goggles. It works great for keeping them from fogging up! The brand is so if it gets in your eyes it won’t bother them.
@@b-radg916 There's anti-fog for divers but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just dish detergent at 90x the cost.
@@chaos.corner: I think dish detergent would sting a lot more than No More Tears! 😢
@@b-radg916 Hmm. You might be right but I've never tried putting the stuff directly in my eyes...
I do exactly the same process as you when using screws into the edge of MDF with a couple of additions, after piloting I put a couple of drops of thin CA glue in the pilot hole to soak in and help bind the MDF together, before I drive the screw in I use a quick clamp to support the sides of the piece I'm screwing into so it cannot expand.
I also finish tightening the screws with a hand screwdriver.
I found using a top quality water based varnish seals the edges very well because it soaks in well and it dries and hardens much quicker than oil based varnish it also strengthens the MDF .
The product I use in the UK is called Ronseal diamond hard floor varnish so it's designed to be extra tough to take foot traffic as they call it, apply it with a glossing mini roller rather than a brush so you can force it in edge of the MDF let it thoroughly dry out overnight (preferably) You can put an oil based product on top and it doesn't react with it.👍
Felt like I was being tutored by the Obi-Wan of woodwork. I love it. Thank you.
If you use Ridgid 18v Cordless Drills drop your chuck setting from the Drill symbol down to 12 (roughly half), I find that setting prevents you from over torquing the screw when using coarse thread drywall screws, I have decade old speaker boxes put together this way then used caulk to seal the joints that are still rock solid, but then again I cut them so perfectly (as I plan out my cuts so all cuts of the same length are done on the table saw before changing to the next dimension) you can stack the pieces into their positions and stand on the box with no screws and it will hold you up. Lately i've been tempted to try doing drawer joiner to connect panels together to reduce reliance on screws in the visible areas.
Sir, thank you very much for the short and complete class you posted, great content!
For the edges, I always use PVA glue. Slightly diluted, it will be soaked in the edges and dry medium-hard, the edge will be sealed so you can sand and paint.
I built a washer and dryer stand with the frame being pine 2x4 and 4x4, topped with 3/4 plywood but I skinned the outside with leftover MDF from another project. I bondoed the seams and painted the same color as my washer/Dryer, loved the way it turned out
Years ago, a guy in my dormitory built MDF speaker cabinets finished with Bondo and and a matte black paint. They were beautiful. What he saved on the cabinets, he spent on the drivers. Made for great sound.
I have found a really effective way to treat the edges of MDF is to give them 2 coats of PVA wood glue, allowing the first coat to dry before lightly sanding then applying a thin second coat, usually with my finger for smaller pieces. This leaves a super smooth edge that won't soak up paint. PVA glue will take a latex based primer/undercoat well. I wouldn't use this method for an oil based primer/undercoat.
James, could you do a video on applications where MDF is the preferred material? Everything about MDF (its weight, poor moisture resistance, no good outdoors, difficult to join, abrasive on cutting tools, harmful dust, cannot be stained, difficult to repair if damaged) seems like a big no to me. Plywood just seems like a far better alternative. Even PVC with its terrible environmental impact seems like a better alternative than MDF for trim and molding if the cost of solid wood is an issue.
It's been quite a while since I've dealt with MDF. Last project I did was a sealed subwoofer box with a single 10" in it. Routed the hole in a way where the front flange on the speaker was flush with the front of the box, and glued a piece of stained 1/4 ply to the front. The rest of the box was sprayed with plasti-dip. The dip adhered well and gives it a bit of grip on the trunk carpet.
For getting smooth surfaces on cut edges of MDF, at work we glue size all cut surfaces. 50/50 yellow glue and water, rub it on, wait 10 minutes, and sand very smooth. Every woodworker has glue around and not so many joint compound. So it's a bit more accessible and very hard to get wrong
Super glue in the pilot hole will strengthen the MDF against tear out. So the screws can be removed too.
Wow! In six minutes video the amount of valuable tips and information that is being compressed is more than that compressed in a MDF! That was an instant hit for subscribe for me. This is a highly recommended channel for woodworking :)
Can you count these "tips"? If so its a number of valuable tips
I've made many small project boxes etc from it... I love using hammertone spray to hide the edges.
I used to do QC for a business that put decorative laminate on MDF and particle board. When we'd QC incoming lots of panels for screwholding strength, the ANSI method called for machine screws. They hold better than wood screws in MDF. Pre drilling is an absolute must. I can not remember the exact screw after 30 years, but I am pretty sure it called for an 8-32. It might have been 10-32. The taper on a traditional wood screw doesn't do anything to reduce splitting or increase holding power in this application. It is also true that the quality of MDF and particle board varies greatly. The big box stores sell the bottom of the barrel stuff. Sauder bought a lot of stuff from us, and usually, they wanted the cheapest panel we would laminate. If you put a good finish on good MDF, it will last a long time, even in applications where it gets wet occasionally.
For paint grade MDF always use a premium grade; also known as door grade MDF. It’s higher quality and more dense. The face is smoother and edges are less porous. Sand the face and polish the edges with 320 grit, not 220. Also break the edges using 320. It burnishes the pores closed eliminating the need for an edge sealer. Primer will build nicely with minimal soak. It paints way nicer than standard MDF. This is also true for door panels where edges aren’t exposed. The increased cost for premium is more than offset in labor savings and better quality
I've been building speakers and subwoofers with MDF for years. It requires special attention to joining the edges and reducing flex in the panels,, but the speakers look great after veneers of cherry or walnut.
After you treat the edges, a light coat of sand and seal makes all the difference with MDF and paint. Some paints and/or applications can swell MDF.
Confirmat screws. A bit spendy but work like a champ on MDF.
This is just really cogent.
Right to the point.
Each point explained clearly.
Strengths and weaknesses of the material discussed openly, honestly, and briefly.
I haven't done woodworking in half a dozen years and it might be another half dozen before I get back to it, but it's satisfying just to get the info handed off this well.
Sage and practical as always.
Just a tip for working with mdf. I like to shoot a couple drops of CA glue into my predrilled holes just before drilling a screw in. I personally dont see a need for activator. I have not run any tests but I feel it strengthens the mdf threads made by the screw and locks the screw in place.
I like using confirmat screws for MDF and particle board. Combined with a confirmat drill bit makes using the screw fast and easy.
I truly appreciate your practical approach to woodworking. This was all useful advice. Thank you.
The screw you show has a “way to fine” thread, and the root diameter is too narrow. There are coarse thread screws available that are designed for this product. “HAFELE” is one supplier of these screws, and they call them CONFIRMAT screws. The proper screw has a rather wide diameter with a coarser thread. What this does is it allows the threads of the screw to be spread further apart from the fibers thereby minimizing the potential for
failure. I have been using these screws since the 1980’s. The holding power is immense. If I’m not mistaken, I think they were originally designed for melamine sheet goods with a particle board sub-straight, but we found them to work well with a wide variety of man made sheet goods.
I have an extensive background in commercial case goods and architectural millwork.
I want to add this reminder, fine particulate dust being sucked up by a portable vacuum cleaner create static electricity that almost knocked me off a ladder when I was cleaning steel roof trusses in a former cabinet shop.
Laminate a couple of layers of MDF together, make at least 2 of them. Then cut out round and turn to true round discs.
Mount the discs onto a bench grinder 8" is good. Mount the grinder so the top of the discs runs away from you.
Work fine valve grinding paste into the rim of one disc and knife polish into the other.
Don't allow moisture anywhere near the discs and you will have a knife sharpener that doesn't wear out your knives, cleans off damaged edge material gently while polishing a sharp durable edge.
Now you finally have a use for MDF, blotting paper if you prefer its more accurate name.
MDF makes great ceiling trim/crown molding, where its dry, stationary, non-load bearing and indistinguishable from real wood.
have to disagree on using it for moldings. Edges are never as crisp as wood and long lengths are floppy and can snap on you. Its weight also makes it harder to deal with and nail holes can mushroom on you too.
@@MrSpzwd Thanks, but I must disagree with your disagreement. The pros outweight the cons.
My first work bench top was made from MDF. Worked great and held up well with everything that sat on top of it as well as built into it.
MFT tops are made from MDF. They are full of dog holes that work well for clamping.
My current assembly bench has a 3/4" MDF top. I wax it to keep glue from sticking. It's a great surface. I have had no issues with it.
I always saturate the floor facing edge of cabinets or kick boards with oil based paint. That way if the floor ever gets wet, the panels don't swell up that easily.
I've built a few speaker boxes using drywall screws. I do predrill. I've not had a failure yet on my box that has 2 2k watt RMS stubs. But I did go a bit overboard on the screws and I did a lot of glued in 45's in the corners. I also built a triple monitor stand for 27" monitors. It amazed me that it never sagged. I used it for about 5 years before tossing it.
I also have a MDF top on my workbench. It's got a 3 inch unsupported overhang. My wife has stood on it and it's not snapped. There's no way it will hold me lol. I have been up on top of the table accessing our above garage door storage and nada. My "temporary" top seems like it's going to be there forever. It's 7 years old and still going.
Excellent! Most concise summary of MDF I've ever seen. Thank you!
Plum creek MDF is the best quality on the market. It’s dense enough on the edges that sanding to 180 grit makes a perfect finish after paint.
I've always found that 2 coats of sanding sealer gives the best results on mdf edges, dries far quicker than the plaster or bondo option and way easier to apply.
AS ALWAYS, Your tutorials are professional, competent, and complete with all the essential details (often overlooked by others) that help me fully understand the topic and all the related subject matter in a way that I can put it to use immediately. Thank you for all you do....
I made a coffee table from MDF over 25 years ago that is still going strong. In that time it’s moved nine times (two of them international, one of those by sea), and survived three children who are now all teenagers. I also had a substantial table with full length multi-level hutch that was all MDF that was still going strong too after 13 years and was only scrapped because even dismantled we decided it was simply too big to bring with us overseas. It too had easily handled three domestic moves, and a few repositions, without any trouble. Maybe having worked in an MDF factory gave me an early insight into how to work with it on any project without trouble…but even durable furniture is quite possible with MDF if done right.
Do tell! How did you do it? Not smartass just really curious 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
Yes, please!
I am desperate for some changes around my apartment and fancy nice wood is just not in the budget at this point. I am shooting for as durable as possible at the moment (given my limited budget) and I do not have a metal work shop nearby where I could just go weld stuff out of steel or aluminum. I mainly need to make shelf space. Any hints are appreciated!
@@dragonstonegemironworkscra4740 I feel like dowels are a good way to go with MDF, I'd be interested to see what DL says as well.
The basics of what you need to do were pretty much covered in this video. Basic design was a H base, with router-cut stopped dados in the end pieces. iirc, I did use dowels to attach the base to the top (again, for the reasons given in the video!), and added some discrete small brackets to make sure. The end pieces of the base (seems not right to call a complete block “legs”) were 18mm, the cross-piece and top were 12mm. I wasn’t doing it to prove a point, I just needed a table, I already had all of the materials, and I so I just made a table…and yeah, it lasted. I’m far from being any kind of genius woodworker, so I’m putting its longevity down to the quality of the materials, for sure. I’d do a better neater job of it today, unquestionably…but for my skillset and with my tools, I’d also go for MDF again without hesitation. It’s easy to work with, perfectly safe if you take reasonable precautions (do people really think they’re inhaling none of the dust from a router/saw on natural wood???), no heavier than other timber furniture, affordable but good quality, and can absolutely produce durable works if you take the time to think about the design and construction process before you start (as you should do anyway, regardless of material!).
@@DrTomatoSpaghetti yes, dowels are a great option with MDF. They get the job done. 👍
For MDF edges, I’ve been using an Abatron product-called Liquid Wood-which is a water-thin, 2-part epoxy created to absorb into rotted (“punky”) wood to stabilize and densitfy it. It creates a very solid, dent-averse edge that is waterproof and really tough. Abatron is a great company, too, focused on home restoration products.
I love how machinable mdf is. It accepts a routered edge nicely.
Regarding dust, and I agree MDF produces horrible amounts of fine dust, I have made some dust filters from 20" box fans and 20" MERV13 filters taped on to the fan's intake. These catch an amazing amount of dust, and need to be cleaned in a very short amount of time. I have a Shop Fox dust collector and a shop VAC connected to all of my stuff, but as James pointed out before, the dust collectors can emit a lot of fine dust (need to upgrade to the cannister...). I have a coupler of these things I place near my work, and next to the Shop Fox bag. I also wear the P100 dust mask James recommended. After I finish what I am working on, I let the fans run for a while to clear out remaining dust. It made a very noticeable difference. The idea sprang up from my homemade filter I used during the wildfires we had out here in Northern California when the air quality sucked. These are very cheap and easy to make.
James, I can always count on you and your channel for quality info. Thank you, again!
MDF must be supported when using it for something that bares weight so that it does not warp. Unfortunatly when I stiffened my shelves with glued on strips of hard wood, it has a by-metalic effect. As the moisture changes throughout the year the MDF expands and contracts differnently than the hard wood strips. The shelves are streinght in the winter but bow up in the moist summer.
I've found that oil based Kilz primer does a great job of sealing mdf edges, and the whole project for that matter. Has some grit that builds up nicely and can be sanded super smooth.
I love MDF for counter tops. I don't use a single thickness, but glue and screw a double thickness so no joint goes the whole way through.
My impact has a clutch setting that luckily goes low enough to prevent the impact from engaging for jobs like this. But I've also forgotten and had too many strip out.
I really liked the small business plug. Quick, clean and to the point. Always great to watch your work !
Your videos are extremely good! its really incredible... You point out the dangers or pitfalls so well and clearly. I love it! HIGHT quality information, thanks a million!
I had a recent project where i was installing a kitchen island made with cabinets from Wren, who makes them out of MDF. A couple fascia pieces were made of MDF as well and not really intended to be installed where rhe cut end would be visible but in my case rhey were. I was worried about cutting the mdf and finishing it so it wouldnt look super obvious what i did, so i looked online.
After cutting the MDF and routing it (rounding the edge) i used a 50/50 cut of titebond glue to seal the exposed raw MDF edge. The MDF sucked it right up, turning dark. I applied 2 coats.
Sure enough when dried it was super hard and easy to sand. After some regular prep i painted the edge with some colormatched (greenish) paint from HD and without someone telling you that the edges didnt come factory finished, you wouldn't know the difference.
Thank you for another great video and covering tips and tricks along with safety considerations when working with MDF.
I tend to use wood glue and pins for mdf, providing the project has enough glue surface and joints it will hold itself together. As you said mdf if its not being moved though, so large pieces of furniture or permanent fixings.
I use 1/4" and 1/2" MDF to make router templates, and I've found that soaking the edge all the way around with water-thin CA turns the material rock hard. I have templates that are more than 25 years old and seen a lot of use, and they are still performing as well as the day I made them.
I quit using MDF a long time ago. The dust was unmanageable, and the lack of resistance to humidity was a deal-breaker here in humid Hong Kong. Thank goodness for a reasonably affordable supply of WBP plywood.
Things I built 15 years ago are as solid and serviceable as the day they were new. Can't say the same for MDF. A tiny scratch or imperfection in the water-resistant coating, and it returns to the sawdust from which it came.
I think the cheap furniture industry has cause people to think that MDF has no practical use. But there are plenty of projects where MDF is actually a superior product. For example, those who make speaker cabinets love MDF. It also is an ideal substrate for some veneer projects. And MDF panels are excellent for flat-panel cabinet doors when surrounded by a hardwood frame.
@@StumpyNubs No argument there. I do make speaker cabinets, but they're used for pro PA systems and guitar speakers. These things get moved all over the globe, sometimes not too gently. MDF doesn't hold up well to the abuse. I have experienced sheets of this good plywood getting a bit of a twist, so again, no argument on MDF's stability against warping. My primary considerations are torsional rigidity, dimensional stability in high humidity, and the ability for repeated screw and insert cycling. Thanks for taking the time to reply. 🙏
74 year Grandmother here enjoying your informative
video. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Your reviews are incredible. Informative, relevant, interesting, comprehensive, and trusted. And no irrelevant irritating background music either.
Coarse thread drywall screws work very well for fasteners in MDF or just about any other kind of fiber board. Their shafts are thinner and less likely to cause a split. Of course (as mentioned in the video) pre-drill and be careful not to overdrive the screw !!
I put a few drops of wood hardener or CA glue down the pre drilled holes to reinforce the fibers.
My best results for MDF edges is to not sand after cutting. Treat the cut edge off the saw with one to two coats of an acrylic primer undercoat (I use Layland which is made by PPG). Once dry sand lightly with 240 grit and you're done. But like others said all MDF is not created the same so get the best you have available to you for best results.
I'm not a woodworker. I made some shelves with MDF. My tip is to buy it cut to size to avoid the whole problem of dust. I did cover them myself with Formica, bonded with Roo Glue, which I highly recommend. It is much easier to work with than contact cement. The end result was excellent, because MDF is such a flat, stable material.
What so many fail to mention is that there are many grades of MDF. The premium grades and even some of the ultralight products have a more refined core (smaller particle size and consistent density). Forget the joint compound when sealing the edges. That is messy, takes a long time to dry and will be softer than the material itself. Fillers should harder to approximately the same hardness as the material you're working with and MDF isn't gypsum or paper. The absolute best method I have found over many years of trial and error is to apply Zinser B.I.N. primer with a foam roller. It is fast, not too messy and reliable. They key is to use firm pressure and multiple back and fourth passes, working the primer into the material. It's ready to sand in about 45 minutes before applying a general primer coat and dries just hard enough that it sands perfectly flat..
For fasteners, confirmat screws are made for the application and work better than most screws. Knockdown fittings are the most reliable fastener I have found for MDF.
I'm a volunteer in a Men's Shed operating in a small workshop - approximately 430 square feet in area. The workshop has a central dust extractor plumbed to individual tools/machines. We have two substantial room air filter units capable, on the highest of three settings of filtering 1000 cubic feet per minute. The outer filter is disposable and captures particles down to 5 microns, the inner washable filter captures stuff down to 1 micron.
Put wood glue in the pilot hole when screwing MDF together. Tighten it down, then back it out until it is just seated, but not really clamping.
I filled some raised panel MDF edges with aquacoat grain filler that I had laying around. I slathered it on with my finger then sanded it back smooth. I think I prefered the result over drywall compound. would be curious if others agree with that. Downside, its WAY more expensive.
Wonderful, comprehensive rundown on MDF. Thanks for the joint compound tip. I’ve gotten similar results from wood glue applied carefully.
Well you almost had me sold until you ran through the list of it's bad features. Then I remembered why I don't use MDF.