History Buffs: We Were Soldiers
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Here's the explosive film We Were Soldiers!
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I was an American Infantryman who fought two tours in Iraq - my first during the surge to retake mosul in 07-08...
I watched a friend of mine slowly die after being ripped apart by a roadside bomb, and due to how hard the enemy was hitting us, we were unable to get air extract and all reinforcements from the Fob were having trouble getting to us.
Him and I were pals as we were the young guys - both naive, patriotic 19 year olds, believing wholeheartedly we were fighting the good fight. I knelt by him, trying to distract him from what we all knew was immenent but refused to admit. As my buddy laid dying, shaking from the blood loss, with the medics trying feverishly to keep him conscious... He opened his eyes, seemingly staring off into the heavens, and said "I'm proud that I died fighting for America." Despite our best efforts to lie to him and tell him he was going to be ok, and despite the Docs trying their best to defy death, he soon passed from this world unto the next...
I know from an outside perspective it may seem cliche to make a declaration of loyalty to the country that ultimately cost you your life, but it's not uncommon for a soldier to take solace in his death, believing he died for something greater.
I respect you not only as a fellow veteran but also as someone who understands. Me and pal of mine had been stuck together since boot and he got shot in the neck because he lost his cool and tried to run during our first firefight, so I had to watch him die because we couldn’t get to him because we were under heavy fire.
That's sad, but you get paid to do the job. When you go to war, expect some death.
@@thetute59 Yeah, he's sentimental about buddy, not about guys he killed. Plus, I disagree with the term "patriotic war". Everybody knows bullshit excuses for Vietnam, Afghan & Iraq. Right now we are hearing bullshit excuses for Venezuela and Iran.
@@thetute59 I don't care about soldier's last words. They die for nothing. I have no respect for anybody, who participated in aggression on foreign country. I agree with Minty, who found some scenes as pathetic and unneeded.
cyco1980 as you sit safety in your house writing CZcams comments
My father, died about 7 years ago, was a Vietnam veteran, hated this movie. He was able to watch all other Vietnam movies because it was too far off of reality. We were soldiers was too real for him.
Best wishes to you and your late father.
k
My father was also a Vietnam vet and said this movie was the most real one he'd seen too.
Clementine Schälchen damn
Respect and regards for your father. I understand to a certain point, my own dad worked for private and public companies for France during 70's and 80's in Africa, and saw quite a chunk of dark things there. He quited his job because he couldn't endure it anymore. All our childhood and teenage years, my siblings and I were forbiden to watch movies like that, or talk about war and death, because it made him angry all the time. He was "rethinking" about what he witnessed back there.
According to eye witnesses the two “cliche” death scenes are what was reported to have been said by the dying soldiers. That part is actually historically accurate perhaps to a fault.
That's why I'll never watch one of this jackhole's videos again until he apologizes. F-him. Why don't you apologize Nick?
My young (and VERY stupid) nephew was complaining loudly about how "unrealistic" the death scenes in old western movies are. I asked him "How many people have you seen die, let alone die from gunshots?" When he couldn't answer I had to follow up with "Then you wouldn't really know whether it's realistic, or not. Would you?" Remember that he's exceptionally dumb, so I couldn't just leave that last question unasked.
I then decided to rub it in further, by showing him data that revealed that most people who are shot will die from blood loss caused by the bullet, not from the shock of being shot, as the movies would have us believe. At the end of all of that, I finally got him to admit that maybe the "unrealistic" old westerns were actually more realistic than the modern movies, when it comes to deaths by gunshot.
Exactly to both comments
@@Raz.C they do die after going into shock blood loss leads to shock it's called hypovolemic shock.
I agree with you there like she's lived under a rock for so damn long she's never heard of racism she hasn't heard of you know the South having a white drinking fountains only yet she acts like she hasn't even heard of the civil Rights movement I agree with you this is what pisses me off throwing this racial bulshit in there for absolutely no damn reason
“Tell my wife I love her” and calling for their mother are the most common last words for soldiers in Vietnam I believe, so it actually has a point in the movie and not really something to complain about tbh.
In any war it's true.
Yeah, that's an universal thing, the freedom fighters of the Vietcong would also do that after realising they had little time left.
Yeah, saw a soldier on my first tour whom was shot 7 times. He could barely speak and all he kept asking for was for his wife. Cliche but it really happens.
That's the difference between people that went to battlelines and people that just sat on cushions. I am sorry for your losses. Regards from France
My wife would be the one I'd be thinking of, not going to lie
@@VideoHostSite shut up
Layer
Sure, but that’s not his point. People really fart too, but that’s no reason to show everyone farting all of the time. His point was that, as a movie scene, it has been done a thousand times. It may have had a dramatic effect at one time, but we’ve all seen it so many times now, it no longer carries any dramatic weight.
It’s kind of like the slow motion scene of someone hollering, “Nooooooo!”, just when his buddy is being shot or blown up. People probably actually do that in war, but it’s been so overdone, that I wouldn’t include it in any war film I was shooting.
That scene lost its dramatic effect many years ago and so does the, “tell my wife I love her” cliche. Just leave it out or maybe do something different, like “tell my wife I forgot to take out the trash”. At least you’ll get a laugh.
The "Tell My Wife I Love Her" actually happened, read the book.
Yeah, I bet it's been said many times in real life.
Maybe.
...and, "I'm glad I could die for my country" was in the book too.
Charles Chapman
Charles Chapman, this information about the Americans dying on their backs and the Japanese dying face down is rather interesting. Where did you read that?
*”write an original death scene”*
People dying: yeah you’re right I’ll die a different way this time
The bits where he criticizes the “cliche” deaths is unwarranted as those were directly in the book and the family scenes are very literally relatable to people from that time. My parents, uncles, aunts, and grandparents all enjoyed those scenes because that’s what things were like for a lot of American families back then.
Yes, but "back then" they were fed a John Wayne impression of the war.
So, the "tell Laura....I love hor" is horribly cliched.
Apart from the shivering , theyre highly idealised death scenes.
@@olliephelan that’s what the soldiers said tho when they died
@@Walker-ow7vj
Eh,,,,,,,NO,
No they didnt.
Some might have said something like that 5 minutes before they died, but people generally die unconcious, gibbering or screaming, suffocating or convulsing. You never hear a death rattle in a movie.
They only say "TELL......LAURA ....I LAVE HOR " and slip away with perfect timing in very bad movies.
@@olliephelan How many people have you watched die?
@@YungBeezer
You tell me why it matters and Ill tell you.
Sorry to burst your bubble , but those two death scenes depict the actual last words both of the soldiers said. Another common last words from soldiers is crying out for their mother! Sorry you do not approve of the last words these soldiers chose, but they are historically accurate.
I could see myself saying I was glad to died for my country. Especially when dying, I would like to think I made the right choice. And even though I no longer serve, I still think it's a noble way to go.
The most common last words for people dying, whether soldiers in theater or for people dying in their bed, is for their mother.
jeff camp that’s true some soldiers cry for there momma
@@TheGreatLegend007 I've seen Saving Private Ryan so I can confirm this as true.
@@Eminem12378 lol shutup
I've talked to dozens of Vietnam veterans for a documentary. They all say that soldiers almost always call for their wife or mother before their death. It's not cliche, it's an absolute truism. They also all, to a man, name this movie as the best and most accurate Vietnam War movie that has been made.
Dave Merlino I agree.
There was no heroic final charge in the book, that bayonet charge was a total bs.
You do a great job of assessing historical accuracy and how well a film captures the"feel" of a conflict. That is why I subscribe. But you have revealed, in this review, your Achilles heel. You have zero empathy, and little understanding with which to temper that lack of empathy, of why men fight and how they react when faced with their own death.
Soldiers are not mercenaries. We need to truly BELIEVE that our deaths mean something. We fight for each other, yes, in the moment. But we GO to war for those kids, and it needs to be addressed, however clumsily, in the movie.
When a spouse or sibling is informed of the untimely death of a loved one, they often react with the exact same inarticulate denial as the wife in the movie. I've been unlucky enough to be present on six such occasions, and I am here to tell you, that reaction is VERY true-to-life.
You need to learn that often things are cliche because they are universal.
Climb down out of your ivory tower once in a while, and experience life. Experience history being made, and you will understand why these three kinds of scenes MUST be in a movie. Then, feel free to critique how well or poorly they are done, but never again say they don't belong. They absolutely do.
Makes no sense at all your comment James, the first guy is acknowledging that so why the hell you say ''You need to learn'' ? wtf.
At the brink, is when a human will tell all that he loves or what he hates the most.
To be fair to the referenced American arrogance about air superiority: The North Vietnamese's resilience is borderline miraculous. The fact that they were able to sustain the kind of damage and casualties they did and keep fighting is a testament to their remarkable bravery and hard work.
I wouldn't say America was arrogant. I would say the North Vietnamese were shockingly tough.
I’d wager a mix of both. American commanders in particular ranged from misguided to completely deluded, but I would agree that it would be disingenuous to the Vietnamese’ bravery and stubbornness to simply act like it was entirely American failure against an equally bad enemy as opposed to the complicated reality.
Yes, the freedom fighters of Ho Chi Minh were hot shit, fighting a war of liberation against the Pentagon is not a walk in the park. I always thank them for their service to their country.
Should of nuked them to hell..
All of those generals were young officers in WWII and Korea. They had seen Normandy, Anzio, Tinian, Iwo Jima, Okinawa… of course they firmly believed America was an undefeatable military power. They watched the America of their childhood go from the Great Depression to the industrial leader of the world. They saw their military go from still using horses and biplanes to fully mechanized infantry and nuclear weapons.
That arrogance had been cultivated by 25 years of explosive growth on top of victory in a generational war. A general in 1965 had stayed in the military through the post-war draw down, the economic boom of the 50’s, and rise of the Cold War. He’s not wishy-washy about America and it’s place in the world. The kind of man who rises to flag rank in that environment is by his nature arrogant about America.
Of course they would not and could not see the Vietnamese as a real military threat.
'for every one Vietcong soldier you kill, you've created 20 more Vietcong soldiers'
23:02 That scene actually moves me to tears each time I watch it. In my opinion, the realization of her husband's death and the following denial to accept it comes across very real, very human.
I don't think he's had a lot of interaction with African American women either. I thought it was done exactly right!
I have to agree, as a Marine, I had to go along with the I&I and the chaplain a few times. It is the most heart wrenching display, she played it perfectly. Everyone reacts differently. Some have incredibly extreme reactions and some have none at all, trying to keep their composure.
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 exactly this
I've seen a few people die in my time, unfortunately. The times that I've been there when the wife is informed can be varied from what this actress portrayed to a simple lost stare, emotionless. We even had one wife who started laughing, thinking it was a joke being played on her, until reality set in.
Thank you for saying this .
I went into the army in 1980 to 83. I am from the south. There was a guy from Wisconsin he told me he never met a black person in his life until he joined the army.
I was in the Army from 1972 to 1975, and I had never had any contact with any black people until I was in the Army. I am native american, and I can tell you that I was not treated well and although it was nowhere near as bad as it had been a generation before me--it still stung. When I was younger, I did not even know that some of the names they called me were supposed to be hurtful. Until I went home and asked what they meant. Thereafter, I chose to ignore them, and chose to be like my dad who fought in WWII and Korea, and he ignored all the denigration. So I joined the Army in 1972....the rest is history and cannot be changed. I regret none of my choices.
My friend who fought in Nam said that at least 25% of the soldiers were totally illiterate. One of his white buddies from West Virginia actually thought that black men had TAILS, until they all took showers together. Welcome to the USA...
ChiP2sumP Thank you for your service sir.
People tend to forget that blacks only make up about 13% of the population here, mostly in urban areas. I grew up in a rural area outside of Detroit, yet almost never saw a black person until I started taking jobs closer to the city.
Being from Wisconsin.. that seems odd.. Milwaukee is a very "diverse" city, for instance
While I respect the research History Buffs did for this, having been around my share of dying and injured people as an EMT, people absolutely think of their loved ones when they feel the end is near.
So true, and he was saying it’s cliche like what!
Things are cliche for a reason
Oh definitely, it’s not nearly as cliche as people think. The two “cliche” death scenes in the movie are not cliche at all. They were the guys actual last words.
@Wayne Smith Sure. Zero. Right.
as a retired combat vet..... fucking Eh!
And the kids' scenes are right out of my childhood as a military family.
What I took from your review of "We Were Soldiers" is that you have never been in a war zone. I served in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive before volunteering to relieve troops sent to S. Korea in response to the Pueblo hi-jacking, Operation Combat Fox. I received a minor injury, approximately a 2" x 1/2" piece of meat gouged out of the center of my back. A couple of days later I had to return to the base hospital to have my bandage changed. I couldn't go back to work as I was on pain meds. The night before there was a major firefight. As I walked down the sidewalk along the hospital there were a never ending row of the large laundry baskets like hotels & commercial laundries use filled to overflowing with blood soaked sheets. So much blood! Inside the hospital where they changed my dressing were seemingly endless rows of stainless surgical tables. I'm 76 now & I still can't get those images out of my mind. So take a breath before "laughing" at the death scenes & complaining about scenes of home corny or not.
21:26, those two death moments I think went over History Buffs head. It wasn't simply the cliche, the tone and way he the first man delivered the line "I'm glad I died for my country." was so heartbreaking. These kids really thought they were going all out in service of their country. A whole generation raised on the heroics of WW2 and the war stories of Korea. What a fool I would have been alongside them.
You are saying like they weren't serving thier country and democracy
Just to get spit on and called a "Baby Killer" when they returned home.
@@notrius7754 They were serving Murican imperial interests in Asia. Which is service to America and a democracy where only the rich vote.
@@Praisethesunson Yeah, i support American imperialism since its one of the few imperialism's that are actually good, also what do you mean by "only rich vote"?
@@notrius7754 Oh. The votes of your master class are the only ones that actually determine the conditions of your life. Your empire exists to serve the holders of Capital. You rabble are there to live and die making profits for the already wealthy.
That's why you don't have universal healthcare.
It's also why your taxes went up.
Forgive the soldiers' inability to be witty in death.
"You know. I always hated that fucking Lt. To much spitting"
*dies*
*cracks joke*
"Wow what an asshole"
@macsikar Mackay dude what these men did was far from greatful. This war was pointless or how they dropped everything on the vietmen. I'm cracking a joke about the whole tell my wife I love her. I feel sorry for you folks do know the difference between a joke and an insult.
Logie you act like they had a choice about going to war. You realize there was a draft right? Fight or prison. Your two options take it or leave
@@kaedynbingham6829 why are you blaming the soldiers? I'm blaming high command. Troops follow orders and yea Ik they got drafted. But some wanted to fight and protect the war. You completely missed my point. America has ruined that land for what seems forever. And all vietnam wanted was to be it own nation. Again this war was only to stop commies from developing in Europe. Plus even the troops did unspeakable things which again America has caused.
Singing Bingo and other songs in the car was how you kept your little crotch goblins busy on road trips. We did this in the 1970s. This is an actually slice of Americana for the period.
@Full Blooded American Mutt - Yep, loved interacting with the truckers. We played Eye Spy and other games. This was more important when the speed limit was 55 mph as trips got painfully long. Thanks President Nixon.
@Full Blooded American Mutt we always played the alphabet game on trips back to Cleveland from NC, we usually got stuck on Q
@The TacomaKid Or Mexican nationals(not talking about illegals either, Mexican truckers carrying loads to Oklahoma distribution hubs. Look up NAFTA superhighway)
I wasn't born in the US, but I remember singing Bingo with my kids ffs!
I used to sing with my kids in the car all the time. I am not sure why you felt it was necessary to criticize this. Wait until you have children of your own. If you do have children then they must really think rides with you are very boring.
TBH, I've been present during traumatic grief. The reaction shot of the Black American woman is spot on. TBH 2: in the Unit, the same actress portrayed essentially the same scene, making her the go to for newly widowed black woman. Also, the vital role played by Rick Rescorla was totally ignored. Also, there was a sequel LZ Albany. Coming to a theater near nobody.
Yeah, it's kinda dubious to portray the battle as an American victory, when at best it was a stalemate - the Americans took a solid kicking during the trek to LZ Albany. Both sides incurred roughly 50% casualties - and given the disparity in means could reasonably be considered a tactical defeat for the US.
@@onylra6265not really a stalemate. The US lost 3/4 of the fighting force at Albany, it really only shone light on the difference between a battalion commander being in the thick of things, with good, solid leadership from his immediate subordinates, and a command that intermingled a few good leaders with a commander who was naive or afraid of taking rounds..... C company I believe was in a column when the ambush started? And the front two companies were in good formation, but their leadership was 4-500 meters away with the B.C. ....LZ X-ray showed what highly motivated and well-led men could accomplish against a force at least ten times their own.
Not to mention that LZ X-ray was the last time a Colonel was deployed by America into a field battle. LZ Albany was a major blunder by the US forces trying to save fuel and machinery over human lives. The men were not even screening an advance. They were sacraficed due to poor military decisions by top brass.
In Full Metal Jacket Lee Ermey's performance of the drill sergeant was authentic. He improvised the scenes based on his experience as a drill sergeant in the marines during the Vietnam war.
My uncle was there... He watched this film with me and said the only thing they had wrong was the way everyone was standing up and running around. The grass was over 6ft tall and you couldn't see more than a few feet most of the time. After the fighting started it became easier to move due to the grass being worn down. But all in all it was a great movie showing what it was actually like in combat.
That's what I didn't like about this movie was how everyone just stood up and ran around in the open. When bullets fly over your head you fucking hit the ground or hide in whatever hole you can and everyone yells "where the fuck did that come from?!"
. I still loved the movie but, goddamn...
Chris Stevens my uncle was there as well. I have not watched this knowing that one of those young men is a representation of him.. actually in all I had for Uncle’s there just at different times but one in this battle.
Nor did the movie deal with that sharp grass, Called elephant grass(?)
Thanks for sharing that
My dad was there too. Watching this movie was part of his rehab, he had blocked the whole thing out do to PTSD.
As someone who actually knew Hal, his depiction was rather accurate. I knew him as an old man and watched his decline following his wife's passing. He never cared about himself, his focus was always the well being of those around him. The man was a legend and I'll take out anyone who says otherwise.
Otherwise
@@bringuspetscop2pyro349 got him
@@ethanstum7798 hell ya
@@wyshbon who are you talking about?
@@wyshbon he’s talking about the movie and how accurate it was. He made no real mention of actual family members. Relax.
I don't understand how basic human emotions in last moments or when met with information of losing a significant other can be cliche.
I’ve watched about a dozen of your reviews and this is my first serious disagreement with you. I was 5 years old when I watched my dad go out the door to Vietnam (I'm guessing I was about the same age as Gen. Moore's youngest when he deployed). I appreciated the kids being depicted as they were in the film, especially the youngest. At that age, trying to understand why dad has to go to this war half way around the world is not easy (I had a similar conversation with my dad that Moore had with his daughter). My dad completed his 13-month tour and came home in one piece. The scene where the black woman received the telegram about her husband being KIA, I think, drove home just how badly prepared the US Army was for this battle from a morale and support standpoint.
Just wanted to point out that I know that the "I'm glad I could die for my country" and "Tell my wife I love her" scene is a real cliche. however in the book it is what those 2 soldiers actually said when they died. It may have seemed cliche, but I think they were just trying to be as close to the book as possible... Some things from the book would have been too over the top and unbelievable, and too gruesome for the audience. I recommend the book to anyone who's into military history. Its one of the best I have ever read.
Yes. We were soldiers once and young and Black Hawk Down are perhaps the greatest books on modern war I've read. The movies are good too.
I was going to post this as well. Having read the book a couple times, I do remember this being actually said.
+Alexander Banas When you say "he" do you mean the movie's director, the book's author, or this channel's narrator? Since the book was written by two of the guys there, I believe they did their research. Since they were also consultants to the movie's director, I understand he took a few "licenses" to make it an action movie (the final "Charge" up the hill with the helicopter gunship swooping in, for example) but I believe the director also did a very good job of trying to get it (mostly) right. I do have issue with many of the criticisms History Buffs levels, but he does sound kind of young, so growing up in a different world gives one quite a different perspective.
+TheSheepDogPatriot1776 Saving Pvt Ryan at Omaha the guy with his gutts beside him in the sand. 😞
+TheSheepDogPatriot1776 I would imagine that. If it shocks us as spectators. To those who actually were there it must have trigered a go back to that hell. My deepest respect for those men and many kids 17/22 years old. Know we have a generation that has feelings that can't be hurt and chase Pokémons. God save us if we have a Holly war here in Europe.
I worked with one of Hal Moore’s daughters and had the privilege of meeting the general once. You didn’t like the scenes with the children, but it is true that he was a great family man that lived his wife and kids. Part of the power of the movie is showing that the general is not some two dimensional war monger. He cared about his family and his men.
That is cool that you met him.
While I agree, based on what you and others have said, that the criticism of 'fluffy' scenes is perhaps a bit too harsh, I also think that the overall sentiment is valid: it's all a bit too much (as in overdone), and could have been done better in a scaled-down, more focused manner. Like the letter-writing Vietnamese soldier; that poor sod got remarkably little screen time for the remarkable impression he made.
that's great
Or rather it WOULD be great, if it were true.
@@janbadinski7126 I don't want the fluff? Perhaps I was unclear, but I don't really care for it; I really do think it's 'overdone'. Perhaps Gen. Moore is/was a very loving, dedicated family man; great. I'm just saying that that could have been shown just as well in a more succinct manner that didn't make so many of us's toes crawl. It's not the fact I've got a problem with, it's the excessive amount of screen time it's given.
They could have at least done it in a way with humanity and not something that looked like a propaganda short for a concerned group of citizens promoting an idealized notion of the ideal nuclear american family.
A line from the movie Red Dawn fits the entire Vietnam War in a nutshell.
"To them this is just some place, but to us, this is our home. It's time for us to fight for it."
Vietnam was some place to us. But it was there home. And fight for it they did.
And they murdered those that didn’t share their ideal of what their country could be.
Except the viet cong were from a different country trying to enforce their will in another.
@Warriorbob-im5py The Viet Cong were mostly south Veitnamese communists in South Veitnam. They were in their own country. They were mostly just supported by the NVA and North Vietnam
9:25 I’ve lived in Rigby, Idaho my entire life. To hear the man in that interview say that he witnessed such things happen to a fellow soldier from my hometown really hit hard. R.I.P and know that you’re sacrifice has not gone unrecognized!
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina, I'm now 34 and since age 8 I was an avid investigator of the Vietnam War of Liberation, how Ho Chi Minh and his freedom fighters walked the extra kilometre, put their lives on the line to save their country from hi-tech enemies. Tales of heroism, sacrifice and bravery I counted in the scores! I always thank the Vietcong for their service.
@@Kriegerdammerungso what does this have to do with anything
@@dakotabynum5137 Everything, you silly
I've gathered cattle all over Idaho. The bugs there are insane... seen hordes of mosquitos in hill city that literally blot out the sun. Brutal place.
23:05 I work in Casualty Affairs for the Army, and this is a 100% realistic reaction to notification. Happens all the time, people are at once in shock and disbelief, and are expressing denial while also not knowing what to actually say. So it just comes out as head-shaking and "uh-uh". Absolutely accurate.
Thanks for you're service on this Memorial Day! I have some questions...what kind of vehichle do you show up in? Uniform? Do you come with someone else? Do you need to be an officer? Any interesting stories?
@@TM-bn8pv Thank you. Okay, so to try to address your questions, which are all good:
1. The vehicle will be whatever we can get. We will try to provide a government vehicle (usually a sedan) to the notification team, but if it's a late-night or really-early-morning notification, and the motor pool is closed, they may end up just going out in their own personal vehicle. We try to minimize that happening, but sometimes there's just no way around it. Timely notification takes priority over being choosy about the car they drive.
2. Class A Army Service Uniform, 100% of the time. We will never send a team to do notification wearing anything less than their full dress uniforms.
3. The notifier always has a Chaplain (military version of a priest or minister) to go with them. It is a mandate from the DOD that a Chaplain always goes along. There are occasionally exceptions where we might be permitted to send a notifier with another Officer or NCO who isn't a Chaplain, but those exceptions have to come from Department of the Army.
4. Not necessarily. The basic requirements are that notifiers (and assistance officers) must be Sergeant First Class+, Captain+, or Chief Warrant Officer 2+, so senior NCOs and Warrants can be notifiers as well. The more important requirement is that they are equal to, or greater in rank than the deceased soldier.
5. Tons of stories, far more than could fit in the comments section of CZcams lol. Every case is unique, and has its own special circumstances that we have to deal with, or family situations that make things difficult. But dealing with the unique challenges of each case is why we're here, and it's an honor and a privilege to be given the opportunity to help a soldier's family through the worst time of their lives.
@@henrym.2156 Thank you for responding! Especially on Memorial Day, this has to be a day that will be tough for some of those families, but also those that will celebrate their family or friends who sacrificed for the greater good.
Tough job but a really meaningful job to have...to never know the reaction to being someone that can provide a family member some support. It's tough now for sure, just cant imagine it back in WW2/Vietnam wars.
Despite the loss, I love the tradition of the notification. I dont know if you could do it any other way.
One last couple questions:
1. Do you stay with the families/family member for awhile (if they want somebody or are alone at the time), and provide comfort (hugging, and things like that you see in movies)?
2. Do you handle most of the lost soldiers arrangements for burial and viewing/funeral and anything else that goes into the post notification process for the family so they can grieve and not worry about that?
3. If you are notifying a family member or doing any other arrangements at the time, what is the day to day work?
4. What is family is not home or wherever else you think they are to notify them?
5. If the lost soldier has no family left, I'm guessing someone needs to be designated such as a friend?
Last question, and I truly appreciate you answering my first set. And if you dont want to reply, no harm....
6. What if the name of the soldier killed has been released by the media or some other entity before the notification process? How do you adjust for that situation?
Thank you! And again I truly thank you for you're service and wish you a happy Memorial Day.
@@henrym.2156 i've just noticed there is a movie called "The Messenger " with Woody Harrelson in it. Have you seen that and is it a realistic portrayal of your work?
@@TM-bn8pv I have. It gets a lot right (family reactions, the impact on the person doing notification, the dangers of getting too personally involved), but it gets *a lot* wrong, too. There is formal training that soldiers go through to be considered qualified to perform a notification, a Staff Sergeant is too low a rank to be a notifier, a chaplain would be in attendance, and the notification team normally spends time at the family's house after the notification to answer questions, and fill out some paperwork. All in all, it feels like a Hollywood producer got their hands on an outdated version of the Army regulation for Casualty Affairs and jumped head-first into making a movie without understanding half of it.
About the two soldiers were killed who said "Glad I could die for my country" and "Tell my wife I love her".....I hate to burst your bubble but that is exactly what those two soldiers said before they died. The Lt. and 1st Sgt. of the "Lost Platoon" were the first casualties of the battle and their words were heard from those who were with them when they died. Sorry the Historical accuracy of their last words on this planet was too much for you.
You may ask who my source is? Retired Gen. Hal Moore.
Robert MacLean
He was probably irritated bc they did a whole scene for the two mens deaths
Making it too cliche
Could of been more humble with the filming making and made them a quicky
For example emphasize the "Wife" scene n' then the boy who cries "Country" could of been subliminal
Maybe overhead in the background
So vidid only true readers of book would of caught it
Robert MacLean
Just shooting two scenes of the same similarity really throws off a movie
Especially one that is supposed to be sad
Robert MacLean
Hope I didnt burst your bubble
Sorry that the director wanted to pay tribute to those fallen soldiers by putting them in the movie. Hope I didn't burst your bubble.
"If you're gonna have to do a death scene, then do it in an original way"
You mean stray from the source material? The very thing you crap on movies for? Soldiers die, and I'm their final moments, are certainly not poets, they think of home, their wives, kids and their country, doesnt take an enlisted man to know that.
Nicky will always be pissed at America until we apologize for rejecting his mentally unstable King and Class System, where certain people are born superior to others and deserve ridiculously lavish lives at the expense of their subjects. I would be pissed too, just from the emotional pressure of trying to retain and defend a belief in that system.
Completely right
Having been in the jungles in Vietnam I think people underestimate how brutal the heat would have been on top of all the other carnage. It is suffocatingly hot and humid there. I was drenched in sweat just walking around looking at some ancient temples in a t-shirt and shorts. I honestly dont know how it was possible to send a bunch of westerners into the jungle in all that heavy gear and have them run around in battle. They must have lost a lot of soldiers just to heat stroke and dehydration.
yeah when bullets are flying your way, humidity really is at the top of your mind
Most of the Vietcong and NVA were city dwellers as well. The jungle was foreign to almost all involved. The farm boys on both sides tended to handle it better.
This is from an Interview I saw with an NVA vet.
9:40. Wow.This happened over 50 years ago. But to him its as clear as yesterday. He still remembers the casualty's name and that his wife was expecting... Sad stuff. Really sad stuff.
True Officer. True and Trough.
+Kalle Cederström That was the photographer.
The primary victims are the soldiers. Hillary has no clue.
My job while in Nam was that of a photographer. When the movies photographer tried to pick up the feet of a badly burned man and the skin came away, I had to get up and leave the theater. All I wanted to do was to get home to safety. It sticks with you, forty, fifty or more years.
I was with B2/7 on The Mang Yang Pass when two A1E Sky Raiders crashed almost on our positions. I was detailed to recover "GI" material and found the body of one pilot. I could not pick him up because he was still very hot and I had not brought gloves. I was ordered to take up security while they put the body in my poncho. A few hrs. later I was told I had to re-enlist or go home. Captain Dyduryc did offer me promotion to E-4 but that was all. I did not re-up and Rescorla just grinned real big when I gave him my last salute.
The death scenes that upset you so bad were real according to the book lt. Herrick said "At least I got to die for my country." and the sgt who died right after him said "tell my wife": Sorry there last words were to cheesy and "patriotic" for you
It's amazing he didn't bother to actually read the book, seeing as its the single most comprehensive piece of history on the battle having been written by the commanding officer and the only journalist to actually be there who interviewed the survivors, including from the NVA side. Like wtf, it's just disgraceful he'd attempt to critique the historical accuracy of the movie without reading the damn book its based on!
Thank you for pointing this out. I was going to do the same.
Who thought those last words were too cheesy and “patriotic” for them? Also why is “patriotic” in quotation marks?
killing people in the name of your country is no more patriotic than killinh people in the name of religion is righteous and to die for your country so it can expand its own influence to people who dont want it is blind faith to a tyranical government and its agenda. patriotic should be fighting for and protecting your country and that is only possible when it is defensive fighting. if you invade you are killing that countries citizens which is no different than someone breaking into your home and killing your family so they can steal your money to feed their own family. quit with the brainwashed patriot act.
Stop being so over-dramatic, guys. He's talking about how the film represents these events. And he's right. The scenes are cliched and detrimental to the immersion. The film often feels authentic but is punctuated by moments of emotional cheesiness that don't work cinematically.
The very fact that there is so much debate about it and so much people who feel the need to justify these scenes in the comments is a proof that these scenes are cinematically bad.
The story that is told in the book is even more incredible than the movie. After this battle Moore basically took his force and saved another battalion that was in the mire. Moore was an incredible officer and leader
Moore had nothing to do with Albany
Having personally informed a widow and having held soldiers in their last moments, I can tell you, this movie, did wonders to capture the emotional intensity and denial that manifests itself.
If you’re not familiar with the process of the gut wrenching and chaotic nature of informing someone’s spouse of their passing, please, please, don’t take the piss.
Especially as you’re a smug civilian
you know civilians know what its like dealing with death more than soldiers families right?
@@narcissa1112
Is that your subjective experience?
Or are you drawing on a reference study?
And I agree, nurses, police, firefighters etc certainly do.
I think the problem with soldiers who served in Iraq/Afghanistan had it compressed down into a small time frame
Death isn’t the main factor in ptsd
It’s the constant fight and flight on a daily basis and the emotional numbing/depression that comes with dealing with that
RIP to Captain Thomas Metsker, who gave up his seat on an evac chopper to one of his soldiers who was injured worse. After hopping off the chopper he was shot and killed right then and there. A fellow alumni of The Citadel, and a national hero, he will forever be remembered
Thank you for sharing his story. A true hero.
RIP to a true hero. He was played by Clark Gregg who also played Agent Coulson in the Marvel movies!
Metsker's daughter would go on to marry Galloway.
i can see what you identify as cliches throughout this movie, however the dying words of the american soldiers such as "i'm proud to die for my country" and "tell my wife i love her" are historically accurate. These words were actually uttered by these men as they died. Read Lt.General Harold G Moore's published and well known account of the battle. That these men would say such things is historically unsurprising for the time. Remember this is 1965 and these were idealistic WASP young men. This is early Vietnam war. Subsequent conscripts may well have not been so endoctrinated or "all American". These young men of '65 were however an elite and by and large the sons of military families, so their dying utterances are perfectly natural given the time and their backgrounds. It was Lt.Herrick who stated "i'm proud to die for my country" and this young man meant it. Its only subsequent films and a changing historical perspective that make such statements seem cliched. The changing interpretation and character of this war needs to be considered quite closely to gain an understanding of its historical message.
I think to a British observer it would seem like inconceivable cheese. We're used to a bit more blunt candor from our war heroes.
Yeah but facts are facts.
Perhaps so Mr. Spencer, but really the presenter should have done his research. Kind regards, Andrew Grundy
Or at least that is what Harold G Moore said were their last words...
They may very well have said it, and all power to them if that is the case... But it is still pretty cheesy, and it is not helped by the way the way it is shot. If you like that stuff, or believe that it is important then fine, personally I almost always skip that part, because I feel that it degrades an otherwise really good film, to some sort of propaganda...
Doug Spencer I don't know if you can consider that as not candor.
My mother grew up in Seattle, WA and knew nothing of segregated bathrooms and water fountains until she and my dad took a trip to Georgia just after they were married in 1964. She said she was it was the stupidest thing she ever saw, all sewage goes to the same place. So, as a "history buff" maybe you shouldn't be so eager to jump to conclusions.
Yeah but that accent is definitely East coast New York or New Jersey and they definitely had segregated facilities there too.
@@JosephDawson1986 not at the same level they did in the South. And the reason isn't because of less racism up North or any horse shit like that. It's because there weren't as many blacks living in the rural areas up North. Black people were and still are a part of the social fabric of the rural South in many places. While there were and are black neighborhoods in a place like Atlanta similar to Harlem in New York City it was far more common for black people to live out in the country and end up rubbing shoulders with whites down South. Besides that girl looks like somebody who grew up in the suburbs and I guarantee that the places she shopped and went had so few black people in them that there was no need to segregate things.
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 that accent is straight up NYC so most likely she came from Long Island and if thats the case she grew up around plenty of black folk there. They would have been the help but being the 60s they would have been working along side Irish and Italian families who been in NYC since the Civil War and then ofcourse all the vsrious Europeans. I remember a picture my uncle had of him in the Queens area and there was a sign in a store that read read Help wanted: and then used a slur for Blacks, Jews and and italians need not apply. In 1963.
Your mother is probably a pin head 🤣😂
@@JosephDawson1986 That’s sad.
13:09
Lets not forget one that Vietnamese forces didnt just win with French Army. They won a war fought against French Foreign Legion. Not some 18yo conscripts. A professional, contract based force that at the time was nothing to laugh about. And as of "coincidence" a lot of those FFL troopers spoke german and had a peculiar tattoos with their blood type on their fore-arms.
You mean to say....that some of the foreign legion....was made up of ex SS and German forces.....who joined the FFL to escape the war crimes that would've landed them in jail?..... Obviously I'm taking the piss there but yea so I've heard alot of SS and German wafen troops joined the French legion as a way to be forgiven for their sins and make up for what they had done and obviously as the foreign legion was one of the most baddass armies going having them in the ranks, probably helped with training others when they joined helped strengthen the legion even more so....think one of the only requirements is that you have to understand French I think......im not sure of that is the case though aha
Did you read the book. That Sargeant really did say "Tell my wife, I love her"
kevin peine not all autobiography books are accurate
kevin peine,
And the correct spelling of that rank is: ' Sergeant '.
@@mck1972 stupid autocorrect thanks for pointing that out
@@primusvsunicron1 I agree with you for the most part but the author of the book was Galloway (The journalist) with the help of Lt. Gen. Moore and other witnesses. So as much as it is a cliche, I'm okay with it since it wasn't just placed in the movie out of nowhere but taken out of the novel and made into a scene.
You answered your own question. Why even ask. Why not just say "In the book that soilder does say "tell my wife I love her." " you are hereby an official gay boi.
hearing him talk about jim nakayama gets me everytime man....every freakin time....
the way he rubs his hands, it's heartbreaking man.
@@sidvyas8549 sahi baat hai
You can tell he’s reliving that moment feeling mans flesh on his hand.
Joe Galloway is one my biggest heros.
Joe Galloway is a man who was never meant for war, he was a reporter, a civilian picked up a rifle and fought, he was a hero.
Going to add my voice to those saying the "the tell my ___ I love her/them" thing is absolutely real. My theory has always been that it got used once in a movie because it was used in a book before that. Whoever made that movie thought it would be a good thing to use to humanize the soldiers or show the atrocity of the waste of life that war is. But it's a real thing, and the word "heartbreaking" doesn't begin to cover it.
The most film’s heart-wrenching moments, for me, were the deaths of Jack Geoghegan and Jimmy Nakayama. Both men were deprived of the chance to know their respective children. Also, RIP Lt. Hal Moore
I remember watching this film in history class. My teacher was a Vietnam vet.
He wasn't in this particular battle but he said that when men died they always cried for one of two people: their wives or their mothers.
Mother's touch cold as day. Women's touch make men quiver
Men in boats shot to shit
Thinking of the love ones
Reminds them of joy,
Interrupted by the sounds of
War.
@@logie3020 WTF? That is your response? Four things I am willing to die for: 1. My child 2. My wife 3. My country 4. My faith
Why introduce a lame poem into a serious conversation about one's mortality and the validity of one's final words?
Not cool, man.
@@johngalt6752 that was a poem about soilders dying not the beach thinking of love ones in their last min in this trash earth. I have nothing but respect for those who traded their lives just for me to tell you to fuck off. Your not cool and neither is the American government for having this conflict in the first place. War is the undeming truth that without it we would be moving shit.
@@CPTdrawer22 still didn't take away the fact America has done some terrible things to people in the past. But that's history yeah I've never fought but don't get me wrong here I love the false freedom that we have. Your still goingon about freedom but to this day in your country you will be shamed for even bring up freedom of speech America is a joke.
@@logie3020 Happy to butt in on this one. What peaceful nation do you hail from so I can search for the terrible things it has done... hypocrisy. And, how much freedom do you need? You can only have so much before you're infringing on the freedom of others hence there are limitations....
My uncle did three tours. He said this is the only movie that "Got it right".
@Claudia Juarez they did what they were ordered to, you never know, maybe he was drafted, and if he wasnt maybe he just wanted to help the american troops, war is bad no matter what, but sometimes, you do what you have to
Claudia Juarez Not best to assume the moral character of an individual you don’t personally know.
Claudia Juarez The same way you are, without knowing. Now stfu moron.
@Claudia Juarez BECAUSE HIS COUNTRY TOLD HIM TO GO YOU ILLITERATE DEMOCRAT FOOL. There is no such thing as individual discretion in this situation. Obviously you have never soldiered.
Claudia Juarez stfu moron.
This movie is definitely one of my top favorite war films for a few other reasons. The scene where Hal Moore's wife picks up that stack of telegrams off her front porch then delivers them to the unfortunate families. It very well illustrates how wars are not just fought on the battlefield or in a different country, but the wars are also fought back home. How many wives, husbands, daughters, sons, uncles, grandpas, grandmas would wait for either their soldier in the flesh or that piece of paper that confirms their soldier is no longer breathing. The song that plays during that scene just makes it much more epic.
The other reason is after the battle, the conversation between Moore and Galloway with tears in their eyes for their fallen brothers and the reality sets in about what they just went through and why they survived but their brothers didn't. Then Galloway walks away, and Moore just starts to tear up. This scene always tears me up. The bond between battle hardened soldiers is a bond stronger than family bonded by blood because they fought for each other.
While I can understand your dislike of the wives and children scenes, you kind of have to have gone through it to understand the heartache. My dad served two tours in Vietnam, and shortly after was sent to Okinawa for two years. I didn’t really get to know my dad until after he retired.
General Hal Moore passed away this past weekend at the age of 94. Thank you for your service sir. RIP.
Rest in peace General Moore. A true gentleman.
"Thank you" for what? What has he done for you? Protect muh freedom? Vietnam was never a threat to the US or Europe.
one day after my birthday :(
My grandfather served in Korea. He never talked about it either. When I came home from my first Iraq tour we had so much more in common and after that he opened up, it also gave me a chance to talk to someone who understood.
rest in peace you earnt it
Watching that vet break up over what he saw... damn.. that hit home.
He's not a vet but a photojournalists still deserves respect though guy was in the shit a lot
@@texasPITBULL54 Ain't no noncombatants today, son.
@@texasPITBULL54 Joe Gallagher. God bless him.
@@texasPITBULL54 he picked up a rifle that day and killed some of the enemy, he is a Vet for sure despite his occupational status.
Happy Being Miserable he had an excellent part in the recent Ken Burns documentary about the Vietnam war, he was essentially pressed into service by the CO that day.
One thing I'd like to mention is the "coloured laundry" lady isn't completely impossible--Her accent reveals her from being up north, about Noo Yark Sity or so, where segregation didn't really exist. Being a transplant because of the army, she was probably adequately domesticated enough not to "bother her pretty head" about politics or racial matters. Women just weren't thinking about that sort of thing back then--While it's unlikely she would be THAT naive, I would say it's not physically impossible.
I was one of those soldiers. There are untold stories about Moore’s mistakes that neither the book nor movie covered, but I guess some secrets need to be forgotten for a hero’s sake.
I'm sure many would like to know your take on this Sir if you care to share/expand on what you're referring to. Thank you
Yes, but some heroes tell all their tales. You think Ho Chi Minh didn't make mistakes in his war of liberation? Some tactics implemented by the US troops relied in the freedom fighters making mistakes (for example when Vietnamese troops "found" boxes of 7.62×39 that were overloaded with gunpowder and meant to explode the rifle, crippling the soldier).
My father was LTC JD Coleman .1st Cav Historian. His maps in this book were used. He wrote Pleiku Dawn of Helicopter Warfare . I met Hal Moore as a child at Ft Benning,GA late 1964 or early 1965. My fathers tours 65-66 and 69 -70
I really like this movie because it's the only Vietnam War film that doesn't have an agenda. There's no stereotypical "Vietnam War was bad, you guys!" storyline thrown about.
Well the reason why the sentiment is actually very verifiable. As in there was a lot of people who agree with the notion that the Vietnam war WAS bad. That doesnt mean we cant appreciate the sacrifice and service of those brave young men. So just to clear this up. YES the Vietnam war was bad, there was absolutely no point to it. It was a waste of life, tax payer money, and an absolute waste of Americas Reputation but we can appreciate the courage and sacrifice of the US Military
@@moisesmontecillo7570 It's a shame a lot of people couldn't make this distinction back then. Would have been fewer soldiers spat on.
@@fester2306 agreed
Had to deliver the news to a mother her son was passed on from a car accident... She virtually had the same response as the lady at the door... She kept repeating Ya'll stop lying to me at least 20 times and her husband finally downstairs and held her she told him we were lying to her...
Thus that scene was very real life to me... I delivered bad news as a police chaplin over a 100 times and each was a different experience with the person at the door...
Yeah, reviewers don't understand how individual reactions can be in stressful situations...
I think it's hard for people to understand trauma if they have never been through it themselves and only seeing it in movies.
My best friend was murdered when I was 18 and when his brother told me on the phone I just broke down and threw up in the toilet. Up until that moment if I ever saw someone throw up in a situation like that I thought it was kind of done for the movies.
I try not to judge people who haven't been through something like that I just look at them as they are a bit naive and innocent.
Jimmy, when I worked as a cop I did a number of death notifications. I'll second your statement that some people just stand there and refuse to accept the news and just say "No". Seen it myself a few times. The scene was perfectly reasonable.
I like this guy's reviews but sometimes he tries to be a bit too smart for his own good. For instance, he hates the scene with the kids in the car singing. I was a child of that era, and on long trips that what we did to pass the time. There were no portable DVD players, no cell phones, and not even FM radios in most cars. We sang songs like that with our parents until we got tired and fell asleep in the back seat, which is what our parents were trying to achieve. Cheers, and thanks for your service as a police Chaplain. I've seen you guys do great things in my time on the street.
This was one scene that got right the gut wrenching emotions expressed when being told of a loved ones unexpected death. I experienced it twice with 2 of my sisters. They were aged 31 and 54 and died years apart. The first I dropped the phone and just stared at the ceiling totally numb. My wife asking me what;s wrong and I literally could not answer. The second time complete different response. A complete cerebral calm came over me which allowed me to step into the middle of a chaotic situation and become the voice of reason to help the rest of my family to make the necessary decisions in the aftermath.
Her reaction was as real as it gets.
@@PPISAFETY I did/still do notifications, and I can confirm. Women lose it. Men go into problem solving mode.
Stay safe.
This, indeed, is the most powerful movie I have ever watched. Mel Gibson should have won an academy award for this. As noted in many comments below, this is likely the most accurate movie ever made of this conflict. The interjection of the family scenes, in my mind only added to the depth of the movie. This was not an action movie for entertainments sake. Without the inclusion of the family scenes, it would not have been balanced. It added to the humanity of the movie, just as the Vietnamese soldier writing in his diary added to it
The part where the guy is dying and he says to tell his wife he loves her and you call it cliche, did you ever stop to consider that maybe whoever that was actually said that
I agree with the comments below by Mr. Campbell. I was a corpsman in Vietnam in 1965. Most ground troops were average age of 18 to 20. I have heard soldiers crying for thier mothers as they lay dying from terrible wounds that could not be treated properly fast enough. Tramatized men with legs blown off. Abdominal wounds impacting the major organs, kidneys, liver, stomach, intestines shredded, but amazingly still alive for a few minutes. Calling out names of people in thier lives, before they received multiple grains of morphine. My training was to put the morphine syrette hypodermic needle through his shirt collar and bend it over, and with my marker make a big M on thier foreheads. These symbols would tell the medics and doctors at the field hospital this man has had morphine. The idea being to communicate the message, "careful don't overdose this patient." When one sees thier first real traumatic foot amputation from a marine stepping on an antipersonnel mine, it is horrible. That's when the idea runs like the speed of light through your head, "they didn't train us enough." But you do your job and the image in your head never goes away.
You really can NEVER get enough training sadly... war is hell, any any rational, healthy mind is not designed for it.
Thank you for your service sir god bless
@@kinagrill agreed
@@kinagrillwar is not hell, because in hell, only the guilty are punished
And what is the criteria of being guilty? according to the bible for example, I'm going to hell for not being a believer.@@ntfoperative9432
Those soldiers actually said those cliche things as they were dying, though. You also have to remember this was 1965. Most people still were true believers and assumed their government wouldn't lie to them. Lt. Herrick was cut from that cloth, and absolutely said "I'm glad I could die for my country" before expiring. Because it's what he believed in.
This is a well done video, but even the most cursory research would've shown this. The scenes in question occur early in the book, and it's apparent that you simply didn't bother to read it.
I remember talking with one of my old landscape customers who was a vietnam vet, and also a complete savage of a man. War did not mess him up, he seemed to actually take it well and didnt regret killing anyone. One day he told me he had watched this movie again after years and had forgotten how well done it was. He especially told me how realistic the headhsots were, the way the blood is contained in the helmet and doesn't make a big spray was spot on.
Dude. It definitely messed him up. The fact that he didn’t regret killing anyone is messed up. I hope he got some help but I know we failed a lot of our vets in that department especially after Vietnam
Scott Henry in the movie was my cousin. He was from Cherry Tree, Indiana County PA. I was born there. I’m his second cousin. My mother and aunts grew up on a farm as he did. The farms were close to another. They were also close to him as kids,He went to Nam and never came back. They never could talk about it. Only brought tears. So we just didn’t.
Having seen both sides in person. 1. People who are in their final moments do think mostly of loved ones.
2. The woman making noises and being very emotional when faced with the death of her husband. That is a very normal reaction.
3. If you are going to criticize something you should study what you are criticizing before you make yourself look ignorant.
Exactly !! It's a fact of Denial and loss of Words!
I also thought the lady's reaction was absolutely realistic. Denial.
The problem with the guy thinking about his wife was not the scene per se, but that it has been done to death and often spoofed. They should have known how people would react to it and shouldn't have included it.
It is like killing the good guy's family in an action movie - such a cliche that the last time I simply turned off the movie. The last action hero made fun of it 25 years ago and they still use it.
Dang English snobbery
Exactly, the sergeant that was dying and talking about his wife was in the dance scene. As he is dancing with her, he is singing to her and clearly loves her dearly. He has facial scars suggesting a prior war perhaps Korea. This review mocks him and his sacrifice.
@@ralphalvarez5465 No, it mocks the scene where the movie decides to shit on him by making everyone roll their eyes. It doesn't matter if he really said it. We're not watching the actual guy actually dying. We're watching a movie, where they decided to include "tell my wife I love her" v2742.35.8, even though that line was stupid the second time it was put in a movie already.
“It sounds like I am nitpicking but this is so cliche!”
This statement would have been correct if it wasn’t for the fact that they actually said them in the book.
Womp womp womp.
Arif Akyuz it doesnt mean its not cringe as fuck
So what? It was still poorly done
It is correct, it's still technically cliché.
written by a man who may have been a witness to the battle but maybe not atleast one of the deaths.
evac slived yes, even though it actually happened and that man actually said that, but no, just because it’s cliche now, it has to be cringe that he said that
The whole telegram scene is believable because she was in denial about her husband being killed in combat. When you receive that kind of news, you don't want to believe it so you deny it.
This used to be one of my favorite war films as I watched every single one I could as a kid, but as I've gotten older I appreciate the detail of the books even more.
History Buffs clearly didn't read the book...of course, the movie also omitted the second part of the battle at LZ Albany where the US forces moving from X-ray to Albany were overrun and accounted for 70% of the US casualties in the battle. Even more terrible fighting than what the movie portrays since the NVA and Americans were scattered in pockets fighting against one another within just a few meters on one another. Soldiers could hear the screams of their comrades at night begging to not be executed and then singular gunshots...brutal, brutal stuff.
I would urge anyone who is interested to read Hal Moore's "We are soldiers still" which chronicles his research efforts with the Vietnamese and their reception of "We were soldiers, once and young". He went back to Vietnam with many of his former soldiers and the Vietnamese gathered many of their veterans of the battle to meet them...an extremely powerful book about healing and an understanding that combat soldiers have, regardless of nationality, for one another that the people they fight for have no idea about.
I saw a documentary from a former marine who went back to Vietnam and met up with former nva soldiers. He gave speeches at museums and was amazed at how the US forces had been depicted in an unbiased way . He got gifts from the locals but was called names by tourists .
He even saw graves and memorials dedicated to US service personnel.
It's something common among service people after a war has ended at least from what I've seen and read . My grand farther was the same. He never hated the Germans. A friend who liberated belsan camp didn't hate Germans. Hated Nazis. His division even found German regulars beating on camp guards and locals because of their disgust . It's how they discovered the camp.
I read that book i have it on my shelf few feet from me. I still remember how horrified i was from that one scene. Also i remember how one of those soldier who was executed was shot in the eye and woke up later and crawled back behind enemy lines.
23:02 Im gonna have to disagree on you with this scene in particular. She perfectly captures all the 5 stages of grief in the matter of seconds. I dont think it unlikely someone would react this way when told of their husbands death.
@Elvira Dela Cruz well in that case mmmMm mmMm 😶😐mmMm
Mmm mm *finger snaps
Just..... no. This performance is just bad. She just seems to go from sassy to sad in an instant.
@@tylermcneeley3136 Sometimes the death of a loved one hits you in that exact manner.
Nah man no one does that people usually find in themselves a place to put it but nothing like the reaction we saw in the scene yes and a no
You can tell Nick is a giant joyless **** considering he threw a fit over the scene with the kids.
Maybe she lived in the southwest of America and had no television. And her husband got station in fort Polk Louisiana where there was actual racism. My dad grew up in northern Arizona and he had no television and he told me that there was no black and white racism at the time in Northern Arizona. Black and white segregation didn't exist all over America at the time. Not everyone was rich enough to own a television back then.
None of the heartfelt moments in the movie are farcical , they are as true as the early sixties, and for those of us who lived them, we feel then, we do not laugh.....
The black wife's emotion was very real. Her mutters were basically saying don't hand me that letter because my husband's name ain't on it.
As the husband of an African-American wife I find that scene to be very realistic. You’re misunderstanding or ignorant of African-American culture.
@Erby Lopez it's very much so something you'd hear in a black household when given bad news. This wasn't the best history buffs take. That's for sure
@@erbylopez6003 yeah doubt it’s being ignorant
@@brittanyanderson8195 definitely not his best work. His analysis regarding racism, I highly reject. Why wouldn’t a white military wife experience disdain when a black military family can’t wash their phucking clothes! His arrogant stupidity is disgusting and laughable.
Hal Moore before Vietnam tested experimental parachutes. When one didn't open and then his secondary wouldn't open, he took a pocket knife out and cut his safety chute free. That's directly from the book. That's who Hal Moore is.
you know I always thought guys dropping the "tell my family I love them" was a cliche hollywood trope as well, but reading the comments here and thinking about it I realised if I was sure I was dying I would be saying the same thing, I mean what else am I going to say? I am not going to be wasting my last breaths on just trivial words.
21:40 "I know it feels like I'm nitpicking here"
That's because you are.
👍
Me eating a burger, I know it looks like I'm eating...
I. Think that's the fucking point.
It is shitty writing tho
They went with these takes because they were bringing in the whole human experience that you were too dense to see, instead you ridicule these scenes..... oh well, guess you need some whining to feel like you have criticized an did not say too much good about a film.. (keeps your credibility up [in your own mind] perhaps?) PS... we LOVE this movie, so much better then the other Vietnam movies that just show psycho, weirdness as norm...BS
Draftees accounted for about 25% of all US Vietnam soldiers. Most were volunteers.
As to those death scenes, that is how they happened. If it's over the top, well, talk to history.
Guys volunteered for many different reasons from patriotism to boredom at home. One of the many reasons to enlist was the hope that by enlisting and not waiting to be drafted they had a better chance of not being sent to Vietnam but to
Germany, Korea or even remaining stateside, Some did it to avoid being put into the infantry or a combat support outfit
but would be trained into a non-combat MOS. A friend of mine"back in the day" had some accounting credits and thought he was "too valuable" to be made a grunt and shipped to "the NAM". He was partially correct. He was sent to
a military finance and accounting unit-in SAIGON. True story...
@@GFSLombardo "Guys volunteered for many reasons from patriotism to boredom at home." Lmao imagine being a bit bored at home, signing up to the U.S. Army and then going through the hell of Vietnam just screaming "I DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS!"
@@snorf525 I know a couple guys that signed up because they were bored and ended up in Afghanistan... kinda a common theme for a young 19 year old men to do I guess haha.
There's nothing more boring than being on deployment, at least for the typical soldier.
You literally copy and pasted someone else's comment from 2+ years ago lmao
The SFC who died actually told Sgt Savage to tell his wife that if you read the book. I lost a friend in Afghanistan who actually said this.
This entire comment section is just dunking on him for not realizing that things like patriotism, cute children, and loved ones exist in real life.
For a historic review, you missed the chance to document another true hero of the battle, Rick Rescorla, a Lieutenant Platoon Leader, and whose photo adorns the cover of the book by the same name. Hal Moore described him as "the best platoon leader I ever saw". Rick, a Cornishman from England, deserves a film of his own, having led a storied life he died in the Twin Towers during 9/11, where he was credited with saving the lives of of over 2000 Morgan Stanley employees, before re-turning to check everyone was safely out the building, whereupon the building
Yea a true hero
Real human bean/ burrito
No one is born cool, except.. *Rick rescorla*
They did unveil a Statue to Rick Rescorla a while back legend. Had seen action before Vietnam in Africa. He was from Hayle same district I was born and raised in. Brave guy saved many lives on 911.
Rick Rescorla also died on 9/11. I think he was a security guard or something. They said he had a bullhorn and was leading people down the stairs before he died.
My father was a 2nd Lt who trained with Hal Moore at Ft Benning. I was 3. He was promoted to 1st Lieutenant during that tour, following that battle. He has trained Alpha platoon (the "lost" platoon) and would have lead them in combat, had a captain not usurped his command. The Captain needed "his ticket punched" to proceed rapidly up the chain of command. That captain was the fool who chased the NVA kid and got his platoon cut off from Col Moore's main force. He actually did say that he was glad to be able to die for his country. Apparently the deaths of his men, due to his foolishness was lost on him. In any case , my father was the S2 Air, back at LZ Foxtrot, and survived the battle. He was there when casualties were brought in and actually threw buckets of water across helicopter floorboards to wash out the blood, but he lived. Back home, I Did run around the house wearing my Dad's jump boots. We had moved down to Georgia from Wisconsin. My Mother was clueless about discrimination. The Officer's Wives Club is a fixture on every Army post. It's a catty little chat circle, but since their families are usually a great distance away, they are the only thing that passes for family in military surroundings. I actually appreciated the renditions of family life portrayed in the movie. War affects more than just the troops in the field. You my find it innane, but our behaviors were always measured by how my father's career was affected. Lastly, I'd like to mention that Denial is the first stage of grief, and your derision of the way that officer's wife began her grieving defines your character far more than it defines hers. I own two autographed copies of We Were Soldiers. One was my Dad's, signed by General Moore and Joey Galloway. The other is mine, signed by Joey Galloway after my Father's death in 2003. The initial battle referred to in the movie is only half the story, the other half involved the withdrawal of the troops. The choppers couldn't evac the troops en masse. They had to march.
I just wanted to say I can't agree enough about what you have said in your comment. My Dad also was an Air Cav Platoon Sargent in 68-69 B-Company 2-7th Cav. He was in a very similar battle were they were almost overrun. His company commander a Captain now Retired General Barry McCaffery had Joe Gallaway ride with him as a war correspondent as he commanded the 24th Mech Division in Desert Storm. They became friends and I was able to also get my book signed by Joe Gallaway and Hal Moore as I went with my Dad to many reunions in DC for Veterans Day. I grew up around these men hearing their stories of what they went through. McCaffery is a lot like Hal Moore and an amazing leader who I have no doubt if he did not take over my Dads Company I don't think I would have ever been born as my Dad might have never made it home from Vietnam. I have learned that most people do not really understand what Combat Vietnam Vets really went through and also what the families went through. We Were Soldiers Once and Young was the book my Dad gave to me when I was 14 and said you want to know what it was like when I was in Vietnam. Read it and you will have an Idea. It's the best book iv ever read about the Grunt in Vietnam and it changed my life forever. For anyone that has just watched the movie you really need to read the book as if you think LZ X-Ray was bad you will not believe how bad LZ-Albany was. The Movie is the best of what's out there but the book is 100% real as it can get. I very proud to be the son of a Combat Vietnam Vet and very thankful to all that served there country and more importantly each other. As my Dad would say Garryowen!
@@jeffgast7215 Thanks for your kind and passionate comments. Our troops did the best they could in a politically dysfunctional situation. I'm glad our fathers had some great leaders to help bring them home.
It was a LIEUTENANT that chased that kid...I beleive it was Lt. Henry Herrick not a Captain..a Capt. commands a Company, ..it was 2nd platoon Bravo Company that was cut off after chasing that kid..the CAPTAIN commanding Bravo was Capt. John Herren and Lt. Henry Herrick led the Lost Platoon into a disaster... Thanks to your family for their service!!
@@jeffgast7215 You are thankful that your dad went to Vietnam? Why? That was a senseless war, you shouldn't really be thankful for that. Lol
Danimal is your dad a Cav Scout
Perhaps you should consider the irony of the statement "I glad to die for my country." That speaks to from the soldiers perspective that was the reason some thought they were there. They fought and died for their country. They were called, they went. Just like you acknowledged the positive motivations of the Vietnamese soldiers, you shouldn't miss the positive motivations on the American soldiers. Not all U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were drafted men who just wanted to go home. In fact that characterization is kind of insulting to those of us who were in the military. All Americanisms are not patriotic dribble. Also the woman in the meeting of the wives is there to point out to the AUDIENCE the state of racism at the time of Vietnam. Not everyone watching the movie is a "history buff" and knows this, it IS a movie after all not a documentary. No disrespect, I loved your video, but some of your statements came across as slightly elitist and limited by personal perspective. Subscribed
Most of the people who went to vietnam were drafted and the vietnam war is considered a terrible failure by all those involved.
@@freneticness6927 you're point being...?
@@Griffinsgamerreview The americans were not fighting for american freedoms anymore than the british were fighting for british freedoms during the revolutionary war. American positive reasons for fighting the war were non existent.
@@freneticness6927 to the soldiers in the trenches either American or British, they were called, so they went and some made the ultimate sacrifice, regardless of the politics. Its easy for us to make armchair rationalizations from the distance of history of the rightness or wrongness of it. My comments WERE to point out the reality that some of these men felt they were fighting for their country. And the movie depictions were not necessarily unbelievable. Thats all...nothing more.
This is literally the first battle of the war. These men are there because they’re a crack frontline unit, the jaded view of the war hasn’t sunk in yet. Ignorant take to believe everyone felt the Vietnam war was a failure especially in 1965.
Overall I enjoyed the video, but laughing at Mrs. Givens’ reaction leads me to believe that Nick hasn’t spent much time around AA women from the south. That’s a completely believable reaction to me.
My thoughts exactly!!!
The lines "Tell my wife I love her," and "I'm glad I died for my country," aren't clichéd. I've read reports that said "Tell my life I love her," is the most common last-line for real soldiers. "F*ck," "Sh*t" or "Yep I'm dead," or words to that effect are also very common. Not sure about the "I love my country," thing, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is also common among dying men. Soldiers who volunteer are typically highly patriotic, which is one of the reason Western militaries oppose conscription. They from experience that conscripts make bad soldiers (not always of course, but often).
Craig Sinclair Conscripts need to be well motivated, today, with many people opposed to war and conflict and the military, the only worthy soldiers are volunteers.
They are cliche, but cliche things happen in real life.
Vietnam was the first war with reporters embedded in combat troops. Seeing people killed on TV every night had a chilling effect.
Not sure how WWII would have played out if Normandy or Stalingrad was broadcast live.
the true difference in WW2 compared to Vietnam is that back in WW neither side had its hands tied behind theyr back by being restricted to purely military targets ... one of key ways in defeating an enemy is food, fuel, ammunition and other materiel disruption best achieaved by bombing the shit out of the industrial complexes.
Not only that but the Vietnam was constantly receiving supplies and arms from foreign sources that simply could not be severed unless you would be willing to go to war with the suppliers.
Unable to destroy the supply both domestic and foreign means all US had left as option was to score bodies ... and they were REALLY good at it, the fun fact is if US wasnt forced to pull out it was only matter of time until they achieved victory, sadly the glaring weakness of western political system showed its teeth and forced them to withdraw making all who died up to that point lay down theyr lives for nothing. Vietnam was decided by politics not military might both during with politics dictating the rules of engagement and after when soldiers were simply called off from conflict they were winning ...
Vietnam wasn't broadcast live. Military censors could review the footage.
North Vietnam did get strategically bombed despite what the above poster says. Heavily over Christmas 1972. Turns out Joe Public doesn't like hearing how his govt is using his tax dollar to bomb heavily populated areas at Christmas time. Bombing civilians never breaks a nation's will to fight, if anything it galvanises it.
@Sonny Pickering problem here is the countries "under the American yoke" tend to grow into economic superpowers and theyr communist counterparts always lead themselves to economic ruin and brutal dictatorial regimes ...
id say being occupied by Americans is much more prefferable than ending up occupied by Russia or China ... from personal experience as im from country that WAS occupied by Russians for decades ...
@Sonny Pickering from what i read its opposite, the Tet had the NV on the ropes and all it would take was a little push to have them keel over but as military was hamstrung by idiotic politicians they couldnt finish the job ...
You have to realize the war in Vietnam was fought using only fraction of Amaerican standing military and literally sabotaged from the inside by the government ... you cant do that, you cant use this, you cant have more men, you have to stop we are waiting if they are ready to negotiate ... no they arent fine you can start over again because we just gave the enemy time to put themselves together ...
and i think those "resistance fighters" came to regret that they didnt lose the war in the end ... communism is an ugly beast that tends to devour its own in absence of external enemy...
Kevin Moore During WWII Ernie Pyle accompanied infantry units into combat. He was killed doing this.
Watching this 7 years later and reading the comments is wild lol. Great conversations honestly
I'm in this movie. The scene I'm in was filmed at Doughboy Stadium in Fort Benning GA in May 2001. Got paid $80 to be an extra on the field as Mel Gibsons character addressed his new battalion. Fun times. I was 19.
Thats cool
Originally, Mel declined to do this movie, until they told him the VC were Englishmen in disguise.
Bart Something 🤣
Bart Something ha - I was about to write that!
@@karlenhelder Thanks... I'm glad I didn't have to write that.:-)
I didn't get it at first.. but it clicked lol
Those Englishmen can't speak our language of the tree though
This guy obviously didn't read the book, nor does he know much about Vietnam, and he knows nothing about military tactics. 1. "All this really did was really did was alert the NV that the Americans were on the way" The NV were waiting for them long before any artillery even dropped, that was their whole reason for the Plei Me SPF camp attack weeks earlier, it was to draw the US forces out of the base, also Moore had done a necessary aerial recon of LZ XRAY at 8:15 that morning, exactly 1 1/2 hours before the artillery prep and 2 hours before the air assault landing. Due to the size of the clearing, Moore knew they could only bring 8 of the 16 choppers of the 1st, making them vulnerable until enough troops were brought in, half an enemy platoon in the woodline near the LZ could of made for a lot of casualties on the landing. Moore correctly had the two batteries of 105 mm lay down their prep fire both west and south of the LZ.
Continued. 2. "The will to fight" While there was morale problems later in the war, that problem didn't exist in 1965. Also a lot depended on the type of unit and the unit's leadership, special forces and of course Marine usually were self motivated. 3. When he talks about the death scene of the Sgt., "So brimming with American patriotism that it makes the eyes roll in back of my head" Hal Moore specifically said that it was very important to him that the utterances of the dying troops were exactly what they said. The Sgt. actually did say he was he was glad he could die for his country, that some said to tell their wives that they loved them, and many called out for their Mothers, he said that it was that way all through his tour, and if anyone knows, it would be him. 4. He completely misses the one part of the film he should complain about, the ending charge scene with the chopper, that was pure and unnecessary Hollywood.
Is he wrong? If so, point out where he is wrong. If not , follow your own suggestion.
+CALL ME TOM have fun :)
+jonathan hill says the guy that probably wouldn't know what he is saying. The words from frank are the EXACT words that came out of major plumley during an interview.
+Comedyshorts Dad ok was I talking to you?
11:32 you honestly sounded like a South Park character right there and I couldn’t stop laughing 😂😂😂😂😂
Like a Canadian in Sout park😂
The mmm mmm scene I disagree completely with you. She was in disbelief her husband was dead. That was a very natural and sad reaction to reality. Every time I see that scene I get choked up. To just accept some people showing up saying “hey this person you love is gone” is very unrealistic.
From 21:00, to 23:38, you become desensitized to the feelings conveyed by dying soldiers and the families awaiting their return. It is infuriating to hear someone mock characters presented as realistic human beings for using (admittedly) clichéd responses when they are genuine.
That being said, this is still a decent review, and it led to further discussion in the comments, which is good.
Not to mention those were the actual last words of those men as they were dying in a jungle thousands of miles from their families. He really should have read the book and researched the battle more.
In fairness, post 1975, any movie using “tell my wife I love her”, or some other traditionally cheesy line should be universally panned for including that line in a dying scene unless used in real life (ironically in this case). Granted I’m sure 99% of the CZcams comments quoted the 1 guy in the comments who actually read the book, most of the people probably thought the same of that scene or agreed until they read the comments, then decided to have a pussy fit.
Then again, I didn’t agree with the part he said about the black chick acting, but I also get the cultural difference between a dude who hasn’t had any impact of direct war in his direct sphere of socialism and a black American woman who knows what soldiers with a flag coming to her door means... so I’m not planning him that much for it.
The Viet Minh did not defeat the Japanese in Vietnam. All they had been doing were guerilla operations until the Japanese surrendered in Indochina to the Allies.
Well said mien fruend.
The allies actually employed Japanese soldiers to help combat the VM to great effect,
Ah, the Allies? Vietnam as Wasn't exactly a joint effort compared to ww2. Japanese constricts were hired by the American government and the only other Western nation to help the Americans when the French pulled out was Australia. Other than that... that was it.
That is incorrect, South Korea had troops there in 1965.
You managed to misspell both "Mein" and "Freund".
I agree with everything you said. HOWEVER, as a man who was in war and had soldiers die in his presence one of a dying soldier's last thought are of his family, wife, kids or what not. So it might be cheesy but it is 100% accurate.
Dude I cant get enough of your channel, Im rewatching so many movies you go over.
As a Vietnam war veteran who spent one year in the Central Highlands in Vietnam the Vietnam war was a total waste of life. Not just Americans but those that I saw of the Vietnamese. Look at it today now we are trading partners with Vietnam . I still love my country but I would never send my boys into a war like Vietnam. I was awarded the bronze star with the V for valor . Most of my friends don’t even know that I served because I never talk about it. Why would I unless you were there you would never understand the horrors of war. God Bless
Just wanted to say cheers for your service mate, also that its sometimes forgotten that us aussies fought along side you yanks in Vietnam, my dad fought there and he never says a word about it. We have a long history of fighting together and i hope we never have to again but im sure we will have to do it all again soon the way the world is going. This beer i dedicate to you my brother :)
Welcome home.
jcims80; Thank you for your service - whether drafted or volunteer, it's appreciated. I assume you came home from your year in Vietnam, to a political reality very different than when you left. That was unfair to many returning soldiers, but it was what it was back here in the World. "...a total waste of life..." - I can tell you that the precursor, Korea, was even more so, and the Western Front of WWI as well. When literally zero difference is made in either territory gained (important to Generals and politicians) or number of lives lost while defending or attacking said territory over and over - it is a waste beyond measure in lives lost.
Thank you for your service sir
Semper Fi. Thanks for your service. However if you think that standing by and allowing the creeping expanse of international socialism isn't worth your life, might I suggest that your friends made the ultimate bet in the opposite direction, and you don't value their sacrifice enough. And if you personally don't think fighting against international socialism ( Communism) is important, please "retire" permanently so the Communist enemy can't retain your skill through the duress they will place your family under.
As cliché as the whole "tell my wife i love her" thing may be, there is a reason it is used so often. Because it is rather often the last words and last thoughts of many soldiers. Put yourself in the mindset of the average infantry grunt. You've just been sent into a battle, you've been shot, you know death is iminent and the one thing you keep thinking about in those moments is that you won't get to see the woman you love ever again. There's a man next to you, trying his hardest to save your life, and may be your best chance of being able to find some closure. You want to tell her that she means the world to you, that you wish you had more time, that you're sorry you couldn't come home. But time is just about up, so you say the one thing you really need to. You tell him to bring a simple message to her that can convey all that in just three words, "i love you". This is what most men, married ones at least, that are mortally wounded think of. It's a cliché and commonly used because it happens alot more than you'd think.
I think its just that particular phrasing thats a cliche, the dramatic "tell my wife i love her!" before a character dies is a cliche
@@nickthehatmansmoviehouse2538 Well there really isn’t a better way of putting it I think.
@@nickthehatmansmoviehouse2538 There might be a reason why they are cliches. Possibly because they're true.
@@nickthehatmansmoviehouse2538
yep,
3 in a row.
In the ending scene when the NVA commander praised the enemy soldiers' victory and place the small flag back on tree stump gave me the vibe in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN movie's ending scene, where Saladin putting a fallen crucifix on the floor ~ as he respected his Crusaders enemy.😍🤩
My very good friend Command Sergeant Major Joe Towle fought this battle. He was invited to a prescreening of this movie before it was released to the public. He told me it was almost perfectly real to the point of not being able to watch it.
I move for History Buffs to review Hacksaw Ridge. This is my first petition.
the real events of hacksaw ridge were too unbelievable for the movie, so they reduced the number of people he saved and the close calls he experienced.
RandyNewmanFan
Damn!
they had to bring back the movie because he saved to many Damn men!
Please do Hacksaw Ridge and please tear that shitty movie apart. Biggest pile of garbage I've ever seen.
It's Mel Gibson! You know you want to!
Andy Mehrts Think he'll fall for it?
Wasn't a fan of Hacksaw Ridge. Seems he returned to the old 'don't let any sense of reality get in the way of a story'. As soon as I saw someone firing a BAR one handed whilst holding half a corpse as a shield I thought 'oh come on!'
The young Vietnamese soldier mentioned in the video is based off a captured journal the 7th Cav picked up from the field. In it, they found a letter he had written to his wife.
"Oh, my dear. My darling young wife. When the troops come home after the victory, and you do not see me, please look at the proud colors. You will see me there, and you will feel warm under the bamboo tree."
meanwhile, another racist shows his dickhead
@Aspiring Marauder really man ? Really
Shankar Jaikishan foundation, Ahmedabad
Aspiring Marauder that cuts both ways, look up My Lai
Love this movie and any time I hear music from it i get goosebumps
My father was in the US Navy during the Vietnam War, assigned to a ship that would barrage the mainland from the coast.
I went and saw this film with him at the theaters when it came out. This was the first and only time I've ever seen a film make him tear up.
What ship? My grandpa was on a ship that did exactly that