Behringer System 55 & vintage RA Moog 3C COMPARISON
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- čas přidán 20. 10. 2020
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I decided to compare similar settings on these two systems. What do you think about the sonic differences? - Hudba
Same old confirmation bias is in most of the comments here, the Moog wins as to be expected. I listened on HEDD phones and AE22 monitors without watching the video, just listening whilst scrolling through the comments, I still don't know which made which set of sounds but they are very close and no one makes a record out of single side by side sound tests, The real test would be making a full track of the same music with both, no one will tell the difference if you don't tell them no matter how good their golden ears are.
The one thing that is the main difference is the size and the user experience, 5U is much easier to use than eurorack no matter how good they sound. Like one of the comments said if you want to compare to a new vintage Moog listen to old Moog records that will be your best guide but don't forget the multitracking on tape and all the deficiencies of 1970s recoding gear compared to todays will also colour the sound.
I would take that challenge. If someone made the same track with the Moog and the Behringer, I bet you I could tell which one was the Moog.
Yes I agree with this statement.
I’ve just placed a pre-order for the Behringer 55 with Sweetwater. After seeing the $1400 price drop, it was what pushed me over the edge to decide -$1599 down from $2999. Only downside is that is on backorder until June or July. Coming out with this thing was a stroke of genius on Behringer’s part - I think a LOT of people are going to want this. As one that’s always dreamed of owning a modular Moog system but could never spend that kind of cash, I’m definitely one of those people.
Same. Couldn’t resist at almost half the price.
I have the System 15, very pleased with it, I couldn't afford the 55 or 35.
There's definitely a difference with the Moog winning in quality ... but the difference isn't enough to warrant the Moogs costing as much as an aircraft carrier! Thanks for the videos.
What exactly is the quality loss you are talking about?
@@AriMusik Perhaps phatness == quality ? .. but tbh the behrinbger sounds VERY VERY good
@@AriMusik Yes,what quality?
I personally believe the difference in the moog sounding slightly better is purely the fact it’s pulling about 1kw of power more than the behringer ..🤷♂️
I firmly believe the larger components sound better as well.
Fantastic comparison, thank you
Good demo. I haven't listened on my PSBs yet but through headphones the thing that stands out to me is that the resonance on the Behr filter is less rounded and as you sweep it the harmonics pop out rather than emerging like the Moog. It's not the same as a difference in Q because the bandwidth seems a good match.
The 'Moog-3C' has a more 'organic'(I know,I hate the term,also)sound.
For the price,or any price,actually,the(55 B)has a great sound!
Have to love those(big 'AB' pots'),on the original 'Moog' equipment,though!
The '901' and '921' are a different animal,for sure!
Thanks' for taking the time to post.Really kind of you! : )
Nice, thanks for the demo! :-)
certainly the Moog wins if you can afford it :-)
If I could live with the Eurorack size, these would definitely be of interest. The Behri 921 oscillators seem to hold up surprisingly well against your set of 901.
The square pulse is lot more hollow and metallic on the RA Moog. The Behringer doesn't sound bad but it's evidently different.
Gorgeous sound.
Because it's 921 clone vs 901 it's hard for me to judge. I think the Moog sounds better, but it's a different oscillator, and I generally prefer the sound of 901s.I feel like the Moog filter sounded better as well, but I can't tell how much of that is prefering the 901 oscillators.
there's bound to be a difference, those being analog things with tolerances, varied response to temperature excursions, necessity of heat-up time and the like
the sounds are surprisingly similar, and it's a good thing.
after all, no original moog modules had exactly the same sound... even the same module 30 years apart has different response.
thanks for this video
I would have fun with either of these instruments. The system 55 was used by Wendy Carlos, Isao Tomita, Keith Emerson and is still used today by a band called Red Shift. I once owned an Octave Cat analog (1979) synthesizer back in the eighties. Now I use a Minimogue and OB-X VST, obviously not as good as hardware analog but effective.
Like many others have said, this is 901 vs 921 oscillator, which will make a real difference. I have mos-lab 921s and lust after 901s, despite the trouble they can cause. :)
Me as well, Pete! 😎👍
I am happy that Behringer makes the modular world affordable. I always wanted to have a moog system 55, but could never afford one, nor do I have the space to put it. Love the Eurorack format because it is compact. And beyond that, there is no magic or Voodoo in electronics. If you take the exact schematics Moog used and you create a new module according to it, it will sound the same. Only difference is that the vintag gear will have some worn out components, mainly capacitors which will influence the sound. The Behringer wins on tunig stability for sure.
Yes agreed, but the B55 does not use the circuit diagrams and components of a vintage Moog. It does sound different. Its close though!
@@memetunestudio Behringer uses the original circuits from Moog. It of course does use SMD (Surface Mounted Device) to achieve the small size. And the components are more precise to the specs than back in the day when Dr. Bob built his instruments. That‘ts why every Moog has its own character which of course the Behringer synths do not have. And that‘t probably the reason why you hear subtle differences. I bet, if you would compare two System 55 they would sound different as well.
@@deantiquisetnovis Well what I mean is that if the components and circuit boards are not exactly the same then there will be differences in sound... which is what I perceive when comparing them I suppose. 😁
@@memetunestudio what you hear is the ageing. Capacitors age, transistors age and start to be off specs. Believe me, I collect and repair old synths. Moog did not use anything out of the ordinary when building their machines. In fact the modern ones are using cheap Chinese electronics as Behringer does. My Moog Sub Phatty e.g. suffered from a broken octave switch. So what I can say is that your system 55 probably will outlast any modern Moog synth 👍
The original 914 FFB is full of germanium diodes, and the early 901 VCOs use them I believe. I'm pretty sure that will have a big impact on the sound compared to the modern SMDs, but I could be wrong - maybe the B55 has them too?
I think the main difference is probably due to the fact that the comparison is made with a IIIc and not an original 55. The first series of Moog modulars (I,II,III) having different VCOs (imo sounding warmer) than the 10/15/35/55 series a few years later. And Behringer tried to clone those VCOs.
As many others have pointed out the volume levels are not set equally; if they had been I don't think anyone would have been able to tell the difference without looking
Too my ears, the Moog sounds just a bit richer but not rich enough unless you have the money to buy one. I have a Moog Grandmother and was trying to figure out your settings so I could compare mine to yours. I'm also listening on Kali LP6 monitors and a set of Sennheizer HD 280 Pro headphones. How many oscillators wre you running in each test? It sounded like 2 per synth.
Thanks for the great video!
first 2 tests used 1 vco each then I added a 2nd for the rest
Which Behringer modules do I need if I just want to add 3 Moog oscillators to my rig? I think there is a controller that is needed as well as the oscillators but that is not too clear.
Yes the three oscillators and the controller module just like the Moog, To take the 1V/o input,
And if you get the envelopes you’ll need the system interface to change V trigs to S trigs or vice versa .
You may take the 921B with the oscillator driver 921A.. but you can also just buy the 921 (14hp), a more ‘modern’ oscillator. The 921A was made to use with the keyboard, and it let you make chords or big fat sounds
you will also want at least a CP3 mixer as well .. key to the sound .. and an ABBB set of 921 of course :)
The orignal Behringer add mentions an additional module that is needed for some of the oscillators
Just stumbled upon this video but your interests is really unique and amazing. I'm curious what that screen on the right is for, what is it?
Its an oscilloscope for looking at sound waveforms with...
I guess you’re not into synthesis much.
@@waveforthefrequencies Yes, I'm not but seems interesting
@memetunestudio hope there comes a Behringer 2500 & Arp 2500 comparision how close there are.
I’m no aficionado, but I really think that the average listener isn’t going to know the difference or even care. Especially when the synth is mixed down, more than likely processed through a reverb, and mixed with other sounds… nobody is going to know. My wallet will definitely know the difference and be thankful to Uli Behringer for this.
Interesting comparison but no great surprise that your 901's have a bit more weight and character. I wonder if you might get a similar result comparing moog 901's with moog 921's? It would be interesting to hear that. Anyway the Behringer is certainly useable.
Yes that would be interesting. I've got a 901 (the big one) that I think has much more edge. Theres still some magic in these early 901Bs, and the original filter feels more "noble" (if that means anything). It kind of has more consistency across its range, like its more well-groomed
The timbre of the Moog is richer with deeper harmonics. I really prefer that unmistakable sound. But as many point out ... cost versus function, and utility versus prestige. The choices are usually made from the wallet!
I think it depends on the audio chain. Couple of Macintosh power amps feeding into some Altec A7 VOtT speakers will remove all the tartar from your teeth. ;-)
I have a technical question about wiring two GENUINE Moog 960 sequencers together
without any 962 sequential switch connected.
Here is the easy setup:
- Sequencer#1 internal oscillator OFF
- Sequencer#1 OSC-OUT connected to Sequencer#2 SHIFT input,
- Sequencer#1 set to stage#1 (push button)
The question is:
Before you start the sequence using seq#1 ocillator's START button,
To get BOTH sequencers to step on the same stages at the same time
--> Do you need to set Seq#2 at stage#8 or stage#1 ?
One of these settings will put Seq#2 one step earlier than Seq#1.
Thanks for your reply !
I have to do that with my dotcom 960. I set it to the last stage because the start button shifts it to the next stage.
@@Rhythmicons Thanks |
thanks for that.. :) 901s are the daddies tbf... 921 v 901 will give you a little of that even moog v moog but I dont think a moog v moog test would be that far apart.. :)
I have had a chance to compare moog 901's and 921's. Actually there is a clear difference. The 901's have quite a bit more weight at the low end and are a bit more lively sounding. Also very inclined to drift out of tune! The sound of 901's is better if you can put up with the wayward tuning.
weren't the same modules from same company slightly different? I think these comparisons are a bit subjective, as when you compare two moogs from different batch they would sound differently as well.
Take two Moog System 55 and they too will sound different from each other .
This is going to convince a lot of people.
Maybe - I should be getting paid by Uli!
@@memetunestudio Indeed. So what is your verdict?
@@Rhythmicons I think it sounds great - and because its based on Bobs designs it looks great, and functions great - basically its a mini Moog! But I won't be selling the 3C any time soon
@@memetunestudio I have a Model 10 (2019) and my moslab sounds virtually identical to it, with a few negligible differences. What about Uli's 914?
@@Rhythmicons ok I'm working on it..
Somehow vintage moogs sound better than everything but the B55 sounds damn good to me even if it isn’t totally on par with the moog.
To all the doubters, try listening without looking at the pictures and work out which one he is changing....
@Rhizosphere Absolutley
there's an audible level difference, I can spot the Behringer this way. Level matters in comparisons.
the volume it's not the same
So, what do you think? Worth buying?
Absolutely
@@memetunestudio Can we expect new, more complete demos from you?
Nice video, thanks :)
I must say the Behringer sounds nice, but the Moog just sounds much more sophisticated. As it should..... Lol
amazing for the price...but 901's are the best oscillators ever made..even if they only span an octave or so in tune !!!!
Yes I agree. Actually I'm getting about 5 octaves out of some of them!
@@memetunestudio you are one lucky man !
@@edbuller4435 haha - I see what you did there!
By the way I LOVE the Node stuff - are you still rocking a giant moog?
@@memetunestudio till I die !
be good to know what you were using at what point.. bit tedious and laborious .. :)
on each system it was one 901 sq wave through the 904a filter, then I added a 2nd 901 sq wave and messed with the pulse width
thought it would be nice for others to know :) are the cp3 over 50% on either system.. and are there output volume differences.. ? and im sure there is not are there any effects on either (eq/compression etc) just for clarity.. :) ..thanks again mate.
also love to hear some sequence A/B stuff bass/melody etc .. almost more to compare my own synth-werk 901 to :)
Nice and refreshing to hear these results without the use of the tiresome, obligatory sequencer module.
Hard to watch and listen without confirmation bias kicking in but as much as I love Moog and own many, there’s just no way I’d pay (even if I had the money) the price delta if my goal was to produce music with these. As an antique that will likely continue to increase in value for some time to come the Moog is the winner but other than that I’ve got to give it to the manufacturer we all love to hate
One big factor to remember is the large size of the Moog. The B is very fiddly in comparison
So you are comparing behringer 921 clones with vintage 901 originals...? Hmmm...
Correct. I don't have Moog 921s to compare - if I did I would have used them
since when quentin tarantino plays with synths?
Quinton Quarantino
Guess it is obvious but Moog sounds a fair bit better.
Don’t tell anyone but I actually prefer my Behringer System 55 to my Minimoog Voyager 🤫 And they actually came out to about the same price
I got banned from the biggest Moog page on facebook for posting this video hahah.
wow, sorry bout that!
which particular fb group was it?
@@memetunestudio the fan page. I don't want to promote it. I created Moog Synthesizer Connoisseurs in response, and I try to moderate it so it's a little more historically focused, accurate, and not a vessel for sexist memes and self-promotion.
It is funny how musicians always want to compare cheap and simular expensive instruments. At the same time people who buy music don't care at all. Never heard anybody say naaah that song sucks , it's made with Behringer gear.
You are in the wrong place. This channel has a strong gear-centric leaning. Go watch some Kylie videos
@@memetunestudio
Who is this Kylie???
Moog wins
There is no history! Moog wins. But let's talk about it after you have brought behringer out of a DI and also connected to a simple SSl six ... maybe you may find that saving 30,000 K is not too bad!
I bought my Moog 3C for less than 2 of these Behringers, so not that much more expensive at the time!
The Behringer model definitely sounded better than the Moog.
my credit card agrees wholeheartedly !
I definitely go for the MOOG, the boog has no soul, but yeah, first have to sell my house...
Okay, so the Behringer sounds 90% of the Moog at 10% of the cost.