Behringer System 55 Demo (by synthpro)
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 12. 2022
- Hey Guys,
I have wanted a modular moog for years and during the restore of the recent moog 1C modular, it pushed me into shopping around. Once I saw prices, I gave up but then discovered the Behringer System 55 and just had to buy one.
I made a quick and rough little demo as well as reviewed the build quality to possibly help some of you decide if this is the route you would like to go. the moog modular is panned slightly to left while the system 55 is panned to the right.
(Note: after reviewing the video, I realized I didn't quite set a 50% duty cycle square on system 55 at the end, that is the only drawback to small knobs...they are more sensitive than the larger ratio knobs found on moog).
apologies for the slight audio delay as well. - Hudba
I have a bunch of Behringer synths, amongst other synths from more expensive brands. I don't care what people say about the company because I think they all sound awesome, nothing crappy about them! :)
Yeah, my Neutron sounds awesome :)
I'm really torn about them. On one hand I really dont like that they've cloned some gear from smaller struggling manufacturers. On the other, I love some of the synths. The *only* way I'd have ever owned a 2600 which I've always adored since I was a kid in the 80s and got to play (supervised!) with my dad's friends ARP has been behringers take. I'll probably be grabbing their Poly D at some point having tried the real thing at a guitar shop and being blown away at just how musical it was. I'd love me one of these System 55's too, but honestly I cant figure out where I'd fit the damn thing in my studio lol
I have one. What is needed is a System 55 for Dummies. I had access to a Moog IIIP fifty years ago. The owner ended up selling it to Tangerine Dream in Germany. This is just a perfect little 1/2 scale copy. But I've forgotten all the patches I used back in the day. The one I used drove two MacIntosh tube power amps. I think they were 125W each. I would routinely blow up ashtrays and wine glasses. Let's get some patch libraries up for the beginners.
Actually, the Macintosh amps were 30 W each. I've since added another 960 Sequential controller and an accompanying 962 switch. Added them where the blank plates were on the lower rack, right hand side. Picked up a copy of "Patch and Tweak With Moog" in the hope it will refresh my concepts of the signal paths. Luckily I'm in no hurry. ;-(
Hah! Hey sir! Why, yes you did, and yes it did, and yes you do! Hhah!
Bought originally by Bruce Hatch (and then lent to his friend Doug McKechnie). This IIIP was completely customised by Bruce with loads of additional switches and ops/ips.
Hey Jareth.,Thanks for sharing!! Both sound awesome! I don’t care what the haters say, it is amazing what Behringer keeps bringing to the table.
You're welcome! I completely agree with you there. Honestly, I'm more excited with Behringer's product lineup than I am with some of the bigger brand companies.
@@synthpro I'm a huge fan of Behringer, I have many of their analog synths and would love to get a System 55. Like you said in your video, as an amateur enthusiast I have to be realistic in my spending, which is why I get excited by Behringer announcements because I know I can actually afford to buy them!
@Christopher Sibert, Sweetwater just slashed the price of the Behringer 55 to $1600, which is almost half price. I just ordered one. They are backordered expecting to ship in June.
Wow! Simply impressive. It’s so close I bet most would fail at guessing in a blind test.
Awesome.... been looking at modular rack synths. Honestly I love the smaller form factor of the Behringer systems. In a home studio space is a premium. I've listened to many side by side comparisons and Behringer is not only knocking it out of the park but knocking on Moog's front door!
A lot of purists _hate_ Behringer because they're copying old classic synths. However, that is _exactly_ what most people want - good quality and affordable copies of legacy synths! When the System 55 came out, I got a chance to play with one for a few days, and it's _very_ impressive how close it sounds to a genuine Moog. It's not a perfect copy, but it's _darn_ close! Although it may not have the same giant size and 1950's era aesthetic appeal of the original Moog System synths, it sounds _wonderful._
Also - as you rightly pointed out - the smaller size is better for most people compared to the original Moog (or other custom clones) with the big cases and ¼-inch jacks. Of course, it's also ready to integrate into any Eurorack equipment you have or might buy in the future.
If you've dreamt of owning a big Moog or just want a pre-assembled modular synth, this Behringer System 55 is _by far_ the best thing out there. For $1500 it simply cannot be beat!
Great video!!! Best comparison video I've come across. Thank you!
Thanks for taking the time to make this video :)
I would love to see how you did that behind-the-panel wiring for the oscillators and drivers. That's one part of the Behringer that irks me, that they took out that normalization.
Thanks for this honest no-fx comparison!
Great video. I take heat for owning several pieces of Behringer gear, but it's a choice between not being able to afford much of anything to keep the purists happy, or buying the Behringer units and having a blast while learning a ton. Just the 2600 and the Model D have saved me a small fortune. Congrats on your purchase, and I'm saving my pennies with my eyes on this, or the Osmose Expressive E.
I have the 2600 and Poly D, as well as some other Behringer gear. Love it!
Purist can kizz my azz, lol.
PS I also have a MOOG Subharmonicon, so not a hater, just think Behringer is killing it with affordable synth classics.
Interesting & informative video!
Curious about the harness you built for drivers. Can you do a video on that?
Awesome jareth! I have the system 100 modules and was thinking of adding the moog modules. Good stuff❤. Greetings, marcel (Zed audiolab)
Behringer should get some sort of reward for helping musicians and making equipment that is awesome at a fraction of the price. I’m pretty convinced that Behringer heaters are the manufacturers from Roland and other places.
I agree, my view is this when it comes to what is on the market from these big names.
Roland: their gear is ok but looks likes it's designed to go in a kids nursery with all the blinding LEDs and stuff. I have a TR8 and it's nice sounding but annoying with the LEDs and then it has that rest state where it flashes the LEDs like a late 90s car stereo.
Moog: they have a few nice synths but very few new things come from them and I just feel for the price other companies are running circles around them. A lot of their gear is quirky eurorack stuff with odd names and honestly using about the same manufacturing as Behringer. Surface mount stuff is built about the same.
I am not against these companies but I just feel that there could be so much improvement over what is being produced when it comes to the professional names of music gear.
Meanwhile you have Behringer making system 55s, 2600s, 2500s, model D, PolyD, etc.....just amazing.
@@synthpro The leds on the recent Roland gear is meant club / rave use.
Thanks Jareth. I had no interest in buying the Behringer system 55 modules before but now you make me doubting if I should buy some.
You're welcome. I can honestly say that I'm impressed.
Lucky man. Thanks for the demo.
I was hoping for somebody to do this comparison. Close enough for my wallet. Hope to see more from you on the Behringer 55. Subscribed..
Thank you very much, will definitely be more on the 55. It really is a fantastic modular, very pleased with it.
Nice review :-). I'm also digging around buying a System 55 from Behringer. I'm really intersested in your hardwire modification of the 921A / 921B, is there some kind of DIY documentation how to do this? Thanks a lot!
Also thinking about doing this mod - would love some more info! @synthpro
Keith Emerson R.I.P (15:55)
The Behringer System 55 is now $1,599. Which is great news for those who haven't bought I yet. The bad news is, that the System 55 is now out of stock and on backorder everywhere. Pricing and availability aside though, the System 55 looks and sounds fantastic, albeit it might be a bit tiny at 28" wide case. That's small. But that could be a good thing, since one can setup two of them side by side and lose oneself in classic synthesizer goodness for hours at a time. This reminds me of the Clavia Nord Lead showing that guy twidling the knobs on the instrument and saying: "just slide the food under the door." I have to agree. That's all these synthesizers are about after all.
Funny thing is, the Behringer 55 system is $2,000 less than Moog's latest reissue of the Model D. I mean ... yeah, I love Moog, but their prices are still way too elite.
Yeah, but Moog still builds everything inhouse in the U.S. with parts that are made in the U.S, doesn't it?
It's a good thing for the synth world that both companies exist and have such different price points. There seems to be an understanding between Behringer and the classic synth companies to this effect. They actually drive sales for each other. Their co-existence is good for business in the long run at both the high end and the low end. The companies at both ends of the spectrum know that this will be so as long as the "clones" are smaller or don't quite replicate the experience of the originals in some other way. Otherwise there would be legal battles over these things.
@@anonymoushuman8344 I agree that it's good that both companies exist. Moog is to be lauded for their hand-built and employee-owned ideology. But it's not true that all the parts are made in the US. From a CNET article on Moog: "While Moog instruments are built in the USA, critical internal components come from China..."
I own a vintage Minimoog and would love to get a Matriarch or Grandmother. Those two keyboards are actually reasonably priced, IMHO. But I think the remake of the Minimoog is asking a premium price because of nostalgia and mystique. A three-voice monophonic analog synth with no presets for $5k? That's really hard to justify. At least they added MIDI, Aftertouch, and Velocity sensitivity, a dedicated LFO and CV outputs. Still ... hard to justify that kind of price for it in 2023.
@@anonymoushuman8344 well this didnt age well lol
@@turbochargedfilmsFunny thing is he spends more time worrying about that and typing... research, than playing his "original". Hopefully Moog being Chinese now didn't ruin his thirst for "analog" AKA novelty circus sounds, meme sounds.
@@zap7759 cringe
Mine is on order. Coming in June-ish. They had it on sale for $1,540!!! I didn't hesitate. Probably gonna throw my Mother-32 in one of the empty slots.
It's very cool. To make that great sound available for a very reasonable price there is a compromise because it's an okay build of a great design. Like the people who clone Fender deluxe amplifiers, you can build the exact same circuit and it will be very close, but not exactly as good as the original. But for the price difference it's the most sensible way for most people to have that experience
Ah, that's nice! I may have to buy the Behringer System 55... really!
It really is a great little modular.
Great video!
Thank you very much.
Much like the Behringer Model D for the Minimoog D, this sounds extremely close. As close as one can get to a system 55 from Moog without breaking the bank. The only thing missing on the Behringer, aside from the glide module, is the hands-on experience of big knobs and patch cords. Thanks for sharing, Jareth.
Those fatar keys!
@@Rhythmicons
Actually, they're Pratt-Read keys. The very best that they don't make anymore, unfortunately. Fatar is overrated.
@@AlainHubert Yikes, that was a rookie mistake! I typed Fatar when I was thinking Pratt-Read. This is EricK from the Moog forum. It's been years since I heard from you.
@@Rhythmicons
Hello EricK long time no see, or rather read! ;-)
@@AlainHubert Likewise; It's a small cyberworld in the synth community!
Incredible comparison. The Behringer is very impressive. Somehow the Moog still has that little extra “weight” but damn it is close. I wonder if Behringer got as close as you can without using the same components, layout, power supply , etc
Thanks Steve. I agree 100%. There is something about vintage moogs that just tend to be magical, (reissues don't even quite capture it). I think really what it comes down to is the tolerance accuracy of components. There is also inductance/electromagnetic flux and stuff within circuit boards as electrons flow, (tracing size/length, circuit board material, etc) that does play a factor as well...lots of this is above my engineering levels honestly but do know of its theory. In surface mount, things are much closer together and tracings of course are shorter distances and smaller and then components are tighter tolerance. All this definitely plays a role in how things sound. With all that said, I'm still very impressed and it's a awesome time to be alive seeing analog technology brought back into modern production.
@@synthpro I agree, I think this is getting down to physical specifications kind of like with old tube amps that are hand wired point-to-point versus circuit boards. It’s very subtle stuff, but somehow with these old Moogs, you can actually hear it!
Interesting video you shared The Behringer waveforms summed brighter harmonics then the mothership, or perhaps maybe my ears are still sleepy to judge the comparison this morning, LOL.
Thanks for doing this. I'd love to see you go from a no wired blank canvas to making a voice and explain what is going on.
Mmm... I want one! They sound identical, but I would choose the Behringer copy, more compact and it looks like they left the bottom area to add more eurorack modules. Yum yum. Thanks for a great video. BIG love from Techtone in the UK.
These things are absolutely great and I agree with you, owning a vintage modular moog would be sweet but the size and price of the Behringer 55 absolutely makes it more desirable even to someone like myself that is around vintage synths all day long. You are correct, the whole bottom section of the lower cabinet is free for more modules, I had some Doepfer modules I installed in mine and patch them right in. The feel and quality of the Behringer 55 is very nice as well, very pleased with mine.
Thank you very much, really appreciate that!!
I have a full system 55 too and yes it’s outstanding value.
Are you using it?
@@robertenglish9838 yes, I added another 921a 2x921 b’s another 921, 923,904a, 904b cp3a-m and another sequencer 960 and extra 962. It’s really interesting. I’m using a matriarch as a keyboard. It really does sound excellent too, that’s the thing !
@Robguitarjarvis I have the matriarch as well. Just thinking this would be awesome to control system 55
@@biggrime it is!! its exactly what I use to control mine, great way of adding sample and hold too!
@@Robguitarjarvis I have to get it then. 🥳🥳
I currently have 5 Behringer modules in my eurorack system and I have to say, they are my favorite modules! The sound fantastic and have excellent features. The big question is "How long will they last" and I agree there might be problems in the future but the price is so great that it's impossible to resist! I also have the Behringer Grey Meanie 2600 and I love that too. Time will tell I guess, but their stuff sure sounds great!
I believe they will hold up well, I still have my prototype model D I beta tested 4 years ago and it's still going strong. You just can't beat the price especially in the modular world of stuff.
@@synthpro My model D already has some scratchy spots in the potentiometers, I've had it since 2019 and I don't really play much on it.
@@BetamaxFlippy scratchy pots do happen. Even if I don't play my more expensive synths that often I find myself having to work the knobs a bit. It also depends where you live...I used to live in Florida and high humidity with salt would increase the amount of maintenance I had to do.
Hi! Great run through. Behringer 297 Dual Portamento is $50 bucks right now. Cheers!
Fantastico!!!
We have one we have built for our lab, and we're adding the ARP 2500 modules.
That's great, definitely a cool system.
Great comparison and information. The Moog has more intensity and frequency while the behringer one was close a call. Still sounds great and id love to have one, one day. Cheers!
That looks like a lot of synth fun. A guy on etsy sells wooden eurorack system 55 cases, eventually I plan to get one and fill it with these Behringer clones. Eventually.
It is tons of fun. That's a great idea, this thing with a wooden case would be sweet!
Fun fact, you can also control air traffic AND telephone service for a small nation with these units.
Great vid, is possible to do a vid to show what you did for the harness for oscillators and oscillator drivers mod. I thinking about picking up one of these and your vid made my decision process easier
Can you explain how you modified the oscillators to be normalized or point me to some documentation that might help modify my system?
Hello Jareth! I'm always impressed by circuit-bending mofos such as urself. When I heard u speaking of crafting a custom harness to eliminate unnecessary patching between oscillators, I knew u were a man of true modular knowledge. I'm sorry if this question has been asked/answered, but what would u charge for a build/install of that harness? Thx!
Very Cool!!! Is there a way to patch an Env Gen or Slew limiter between the sequencer or keyboard voltage output and the osc CV in to add portamento?
Hi Herb,
Yes, it's possible. I built a very simple slew limiter for mine. You could built multiple slews and have a different rate per section. Here is a example of my unit with the slew: czcams.com/video/bjdFZfBEI3g/video.html
@@synthpro Thanks Jareth - is there one I can buy commercially? I can't build these things....
Hi. I just ordered 2 Boog System 35's and wonder if it's worth the trouble to replace existing op amp with the 741 you mentioned?
I honestly don't see any reason to change them out for 741s.
I noticed the 904C filter coupler is also missing as well as a sample & hold. Oh well. still a great machine.
Please Jareth, could you show us how you normold the oscillator drivers to the oscillators?
Thought I’d do some research before springing for a Behringer 35, Obs the big Moog has 6.3mm jacks and room to breath. I do find the euro rack format quite a faff at times with everything so close together. Something I have corrected slightly by using 1.5hp spacers between all my modules. If synthpro rates Behringer , then I am confident that I will not regret buying it. Not getting the 55 as I have a doepfer system and 4 sequencers already.
I have both software and hardware remakes of classic synths, I think the hardware sounds significantly closer to the originals. I’ve got all the Arturia collection, I love it but it doesn’t sound the same as these analog hardware synths. Since an original Moog modular is something I’ll like never be able to afford or find a room to store it in this is a great alternative.
すばらしい。
I'd be interested to see a few shots of your wiring harness to tie the controllers to the osc drivers. Did you do the same thing for the filter controller?
The two major components missing are the filter coupler and the controller for the envelope and vca routing. AMsynth makes the controller and a moog martrix mixer when they are in stock.
Me too! I'd love to know how to do that mod.
I will make a video on this topic.
@@synthpro I'm sure you'll cover it when you make the video, but were you able to wire up your harness normaled to the front panel jacks? So if you patch something on the front panel, does it override the input from the harness?
@@synthpro Subbed because of this comment. I can't wait, and also have the same question as bowserb61
I can't afford Moog prices, so i went with a Behringer Model D. It's fantastic!
I first thought it was a joke when I saw "Behringer System 55" 🙂 Very nice Eurorack system. But even this Behringer System 55, I can not afford ( 3499 Euros). I have some modules of the Behringer System 55, the System 100M and the Arp System 100. Behringer nailed it like always! greetz from Belgium.
I had worked as a beta tester with their model D and knew when I saw the 55 that it would be as close to design as possible in a affordable synth. I had no idea this was on the market and it was actually in stock. I agree, it's still not cheap when we talk about price but compared to the real moog it's night and day in cost. Really proud of Behringer's continued progression. Thanks for the comment.
Behringer just dropped the price to 1600 or so they even dropped their whole line of synths between 30 up to 60 percent. I hope you can afford it now
@@gingkarl Not here in Europe. I see that the price of Musicstore is now 3166 Euro.
@@turquoisecapricorn Thomann 1790€
@@undercoverneunzehn I saw it tonight, 1799 Euro but you have to wait szveral months for it.
I'm about to buy the system 35
Would it be possible to replicate the E.M.M.S.'s preset system on the Behringer? I suspect the modules don't have edge connectors but would it still be doable?
Yes, I'm sure this could be done. It would just be the idea of routing the harnesses and building the programmer. No edge connections but the circuit is all there.
@@synthpro Do you have tutorials for the "factory mods" you added to the Boog 55? I'm about to acquire one and if it really is that handy to have some stuff pre-routed I'd love to make changes.
Do you do that modification on the Behringer System 55 for customers?
I like your playing like a keyboarder but with a modular, thats cool.
Fitzgreyve does a matching keyboard module which has portamento
Behringers Abacus will provide the slew two limiters for 110 bucks, coming soon.....
awesome would you do the mods to the Behringer as you mentioned and ship to a customer?
I may eventually offer something like this. As of right now my workload is very heavy with restorations and a one man shop.
@@synthpro its great you are productively and hopefully profitably busy!
Why with the system 55 did Behringer not come out with a 953 duphonic keyboard to go with that sys55?
That's a good question. I will add that the MIDI to CV converter has a duohonic mode which is great.
Game Changer Audio just released the PLASMA VOICE !!! ...it's 412 EUR, but a complete synth voice module.
but i still don't know when the Behringer SY-1 is coming out yet.... but that will be Less Than 200 USD ...and the System 55 would benefit more from the specialized percussion synth.
For making those noises you don't need a system 55. Make a cyberpunk song with it.
Where is the link to the video for the other filter?
I haven't been able to locate the demo I saw, believe the video was taken down. I'm going to try to review some more modules soon.
These look very cool, indeed. I'm wondering about getting this as well, but one thing is nagging at me. The oscillators don't appear to get as loud as the real Moog modular, and as a result of that, the cp3a's don't get driven into saturation like you can on the Moog. The mixer will saturate correctly with a loud enough oscillator, but none of the behringer 55 oscillators can get loud enough. Does this bother you in any way? Is there anything that can be done to make them louder? Could you do a video showing how you linked the 921A and B?
Hi Nick,
I will admit that I didn't exactly volume match these two...the behringer does have a nice strong output from oscillators. The CP3a mixers do feature gain control just like moog so you can crank it up and saturate the filter ect as well and I didn't quite have them matched exactly.
The hardest thing for me when making this comparison video was ratio of small knobs vs the large moog knobs.
Yes, I will be making a video on the linkage here soon, just haven't had time but that will happen.
@@synthpro I got around to getting myself one of these. I was wondering about your wiring harness for the 921A/B modules. Does it render the jacks on the front of the units inoperable? Or can you still connect patch cables to override the internal wiring? Sometimes I like using the oscillators on their own, and other times it's nice to connect them all together.
@@nickmarkham3743 Awesome. If you do hardwire them in the fashion I did then yes, the oscillators can't be separated from the driver you are wired to but the jacks will still work to daisy chain none hardwired oscillators. In order to modify it so it could be hardwired yet still selectable you could replace input jacks with make/break TS females and this would allow driver signal to be broken when plugging the oscillator into a different driver.
All moog oscillators were hardwired so make/break jacks would be one benefit even over the original moog modular. If you wanted to change drivers in the old moogs, you had to change wiring behind the cabinet.
This Behringer 55 model is a very impressive instrument. As far as sound goes, I don't see any difference between the Behringer 55, 2600, OB-X8, or even Korg M1. When one uses a sawtooth or square wave going through a non-resonant low pass filter, all synthesizers should sound exactly the same. If something does not sound the same, it means it does not originate from a sawtooth or square wave, or the waves have some faults in them, not being mathematically correct saws or square, respectively. Same goes for the low pass filter. There could be different circuit designs, but all low pass filters' goal is to roll off high frequencies. For the most past, a Korg M1 can achieve vast majority of classic subtractive synthesizer sounds. The D-50 [Roland] can go further with its resonant filter, pulse width modulation, and multiple LFO's. The DX7II [Yamaha] can achieve similar results, assuming one understands how to obtain sawtooth, square, and work the envelopes to approximate how the filter lets the harmonics through. All synthesizers with some basic synth waves (saw, square, sine) and envelopes capable of shaping the harmonic content, should be able to achieve very similar, if not the same results. It's only up to the user to have enough knowledge and perseverance to achieve these results.
Behringer is making very good clones for a good price and I sold almost my old gear and replaced with Behringers .
The Behringer sounds good. The Moog sounds better though. As it ought to.
The moog is definitely special no doubt.
Makes me nervous to see the back legs of the 55 resting on a point like that. ;-)
Yummy
Maybe it's just my perspective, but my Model 10 doesn't sound like that 1C.
It uses the 901 series oscillators which are much more drifty and doesn't track as well as 921 series....that's probably a lot of the tone. Oscillator interactions and phasing is a big part of the tone.
@@synthpro The 921s I think are more aggressive as far as the harmonic content is concerned. All that can be measured, of course, but even Emerson's had more raspy oscs. What's the deal with his...are those 921s later than the other modules indicating it was upgraded from the 901s?
@@Rhythmicons I am not as familiar with the actual output stage of the 901s but do know they work a bit different. The 921s theory of operation is similar to other moogs especially in the voltage to current conversion circuits. Keith did upgrade to the 921s, he had a hard time keeping scale in when changing footages with the 901s
Moog sounds better. Behringer doesn't sound terrible though.
The Moog definitely sounds warmer, but i attribute the aged component to that. I wonder how the system 55 will sound years from now. At some point our new behringer synths will become vintage synths.
I call this rig ,buy one get one half off lol.
a lot smaller than expected for $3,800
Behr dropped the price to $1600 so maybe they read your comment. So now, for $3800 you can buy 2 and a couple of porta modules to make it bigger
@@jjrusy7438 YES! KICK ASS
Tools are just that people pay for name and legacy snd half the synth karens on here just talk about synths instead of playing them. We can all read the same news you all can while sitting in-front of thousands of gear no one ever hears seems a waste
Well... the intention might be good, but the implementation not as much: VOLUMES ARE NOT MATCHED! ...The Behringer is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER IN VOLUME than the MOOG [so the latter"obviously "sounds better", simply because it is louder.].. So, IMHO this does not allow for a good/fair comparison... Good effort though... Thanks!"
It's $1600 now!!!!
hi Jared can you do a brake down on Juno dcos starting with the juno6 to the alpha juno1?
Unfortunately, I do not own any of those to really give a true breakdown.