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My bumpy road to (slightly) better inverted flight!!
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- How long did it take you to be able to hover your RC helicopter inverted on one place? Please let me know in the comment section! I thought hovering inverted would be easier! But after about 6 months of training (with breaks) I am still far away for holding my heli upside down on point. Strong and gusty winds don't make it easier and it's difficult to motivate myself for simulator training at home when it's great weather to fly outside. Do you think my idea of training all kinds of flips and rolls might help me? Please share your thoughts and experiences in the comments. If you are new to inverted flight I give you one advise: Be patient with yourself!!
My first inverted flight trials on the simulator: • These 3 tips improved ...
My first inverted flight in te real world with my M2 and M1: • Inverted HAPPINESS: My...
My first M4 Max inverted flight: • Nerve-wracking first I...
The way I trained flips without losing altitude was by first slowing it down and breaking it up into two parts:
First start by giving the model a push upwards and while it's going up you simultaneously return collective to center and put the model in a vertical position (so it would drop straight nose or tail down if you stop here). Then just as it is losing upward momentum you flip the rest of the way, and then catch it with negative.
If you start out this way you get a little break halfway through the flip and I found it much easier to build the muscle memory for correct timing. Once you get better at it you can start tightening it up by reducing the push at the start and doing it faster until eventually you can flip in place. I recc trying it on the sim, maybe it works for you too.
@tyran370 Thank you very much for your tip! This sounds very promising because I am aware that my biggest problem at the moment is the timing of the collective pitch. And I guess it's because it all happens very fast. To bresak the flip up into two parts might really give me more time and this makes it easier to refine and adjust the Collective Pitch timing! I will give this a try! I am thankful for every tip because I am learning all by myself. Best greetings and thanks again!
I started in November last year with my helicareer. For now I can hover inverted for almost 30 sec. By flipping i lost mostly 1 to 2 meters and i rescue often with an half rainbow if i fly inv nose in. I have bought the OMP M4 max and also M1 and M2 Evo first. Loops not right round but I try every time i fly high in the Sky. So you do try and fly and stay save. For the readers, sry for my bad spelling I´m German and over 45 years old. Good luck. cay
@WP001H Hi! Thank you for sharing your experience! Wow, you are a fast learner! I am flying now for 3 years and some month and my hovering is... well, very short. And bad. 😀But I am 63 years old and I 'wasted" 2 of these 3 years because I was flying my M2's and M1's with the simple a RTF T6 transmitter in "normal mode". That was not the best idea, but I can't change it now. Congrats to such a fast learning and best greetings to Germany! Happy flights and more fast progress!!
Good job Matthias!! Keep pushing my friend.....you will get there!! 🙂
@rickhayes Thank you very much for your encouragement, Rick! Today I was going inverted (from tail in) with half rolls. For strange reasons this is for me still nerve wracking 😀 and I have to push myself. But I see it's getting better with every time. Although it's so hot over here, even at 7.30 the morning (32 degress celsius, around 90 Fahrenheit) , that my brain and body hardly are working!! It's so much fun to trai this stuff, although sometimes breathtaking!!
Good video Matthias. You are describing the issue that we have all faced when learning the flip and the roll - the key thing my friend, is to ensure that your elevator for flip or your aileron for roll, is a consistent pull - all the way through until the heli is where you want it to be - upside down or full 360. The only thing you change is the pitch just before the heli is upside down. It takes bags of practice and it cant really be measured in a timeframe except to say that a good day, bags of batteries, patience and some support or, peace and quiet whichever you prefer, and you'll have it done in a day. I did but.................................... I'm the first to admit I'm still on a journey of perfecting my own style. Just about to release a video of 'Mildred' - you'll see some front flips and what I'm talking about. Remember ole friend.........................'It's all about the Journey'! Keep 'em coming - good job!
You're dropping out of your loops and flips because you're not inputting enough positive pitch once your heli is transitioning from inverted to right side up. You do a good job of holding the heli at altitude when inverted, but when it continues around the loop or flip you hold negative pitch too long and it plunges the heli downward before your positive pitch engages enough to compensate and hold the heli level. You will be able to do stationary flips once you practice your collective management on the sim. When hovering inverted, your heli is drifting, which means you need to practice on the sim to correct its drift the same as you would if it were right side up, meaning learning the control surfaces are reversed when inverted (rudder is the same--fly the nose). Then in forward flight inverted, to bank and turn right you squeeze the rudder and cyclic sticks. To bank and turn left inverted you spread the sticks, all the while adjusting your altitude with negative pitch. I'm no expert, but I can fly inverted frontwards and backwards. Keep up the good work! I love seeing people like you with such compassion and enthusiasm.
@user-kb8ue6eh9z Thank you very much for your great comment! You bring every single mistake I make on the point and describe it perfectly! Also the solutions. Yes this giving positive pitch too late after flipping upright I am feeling very much but I was not so aware about the reason like now after reading your comment! Yes, my heli should stay on one altitude. The drifting while being inverted is another big problem. It's so great that I love flying and training so much! I dream of forward flight inverted, turns and so on. But I feel that this really takes time. Especially that I am still rather bad at upright inverted flight. I am flying backwards circles as fast like s snail or a turtle!! Thanks for your great encouragement!!
@HeliShed Thank you very much Tyger!! Especially for the tip holding the amount of cyclic roll or pitch (flip) constant while doing rolls or flips. So much is happening at the same time! So much has to be coordinated in the same moment! Thats what makes flying (manual 3D mode controlled) collective pitch helis so challenging but at the same time it's the thing I love most!! It's a never ending story of life long learning!! As you say it's all about the journey!! I love difficult challenges: Thats why I moved to Poland - try to speak two words in Polish and the Grammar: 7 used grammatical cases!! Flying helis is easy peasy!! Cheers Mate!!
I learned from the manual from HeliFreak "From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months" (I cannot recommend it enough) - it was initially hovering practice in sim, while sim controlled the rudder and slowly turned me around. That was tough but manageable :)
To keep altitude, try to give a short burst of collective before turning it around, you'll be much more locked in. This helps a lot also during 4-point flips and rolls. Also, of course, some negative when you're upside down, as was already mentioned. Good job anyway!
@lev-on-heli Thanks a lot for your tips annd advise! I will look into this HeliFreak video you mentioned! The rudder: I am still not touching it when inverted and I know it's a mistake. In the simulator I am flying mostly tail in when inverted... nad I want to try this in the real world. And your words encourage me to touch this rudder! Thanks for every word!!
@@RCCopterLove UR most welcome! It's not a video :) It's a long post, but it is definitely worth reading and following, IMHO. The rudder is quite important to not get lost while inverted if the angle is not "favorite". It's definitely not a mistake when you start doing it by that guide :) Good luck!
@@lev_on_heli Ah, Ok, I see!! 😀 Now I get it! It's Forum Heli Freak!! Okay, I will read this manual!! Thank you!! Not everything is on video! Best greetings!!
@@lev_on_heli Good advise. Can you give details where to find this manual please? Thank-you.
If you don’t stay inverted, you are not building muscle memory. I started in june 2023 with a xk k110s micro and a simulator and was hovering nose in inverted by oktober. Building muscle memory on the sim first. The benefit of the k110s is that crashing all the time doesn’t matter one bit, because it almost never breakes (in gras/weeds). I think i’ve crashed it hundreds of times. By now i am hovering in all 8 orientations and have started inverted circles and figures of 8.
@frisos3944 Thank you for your kind words and great advise! I feel since some time that I should stay longer inverted - and especially in a contolled way regards position holding. I will give it again a try with my M2 EVO which really feels like a part of my body and brain! Hovering inverted in 8 oreinations is a dream goal for me! I am happy for you that you have archieved it! Inverted circles and figure 8ts is soemthing I dont even dream of now. I am still having a lot if deficites in upright backwards flight! Soooo many things to learn! Sooo many reasons to fly day by day! Wonderful!! All the very best!!
Very Good Mathias ¡ just remember when yo do Flips and rolls to put some negative pitch as the heli is on the transcision upside down , that way you will prevent it from falling a little as it is happening
@arturosierra413 Thank you very much for your encouraging words, Arturo! I am trying to do this but I 1. sometimes get the timing wrong (too early in the flip or too late) or 2. I am just giving too less negative pitch. The whole timing is the most tricky in this flipping and rolling. I guess it's just training, training and again training! The good news is: Thats what I love the most!! Happy flights to you and thanks for support!!
Great video buddy. The people at my club recommend to me that when I'm learning inverted to learn from a side barrel roll and hold it inverted and keep practicing it that way first. They strongly recommend that I didn't try learning first from a back or forward roll. Doing it from a side barrel first learnt me to control side drift and forward and backwards control. I can now hover my m2 in front of me solid for a full battery it's taken me 3 weeks to learn it that way. Hope this helps but I'd strongly recommend not trying inverted from a front or back roll till you master a solid inverted flight from a side barrel. All the best mate keep the videos coming
@Rcheliguy Thank you! Doing it from a half roll sounds very good because of what you say: Being able to control the sideways drift!! I am doing it in the simulator but you know: On the field in wind (this sucker is always present in Poland 😀) it's another thing! Exactly controlling the side drift is my biggest problem and I am at the moment (in the sim) only able to do it with inverted tail in orientation!! I will give this a try already tomorrow!! Thanks a lot and best greetings!! Happy flights!!
Hello Matthias, Rcheliguy is absolutly right, it‘s the only way to learn safe inverted hover and don‘t let you stop from the wind. Best wishes from rainy Switzerland.
@@danielschibig8014 Hi Daniel!! Thank you so much for your constant encouragement! I tried it today and believe me or not: I first did about 20 full 360 degrees rolls before I was "brave" enough to stop the roll when my M4 Max was inverted! (Tail in). Somehow I had to evercome myself at first! Then I have seen that it's really easier!! Especially to hold the heli on one place. At least aileron works like in upright!! 😀 That's already a lot with EVERYTHING else inversed!! Thank you and I wish you better eather!! Ironically in Poland it's too hot (above 35 degrees in the shadow!! Even at 7 or 8 AM!!!) best gretings!!
@Rcheliguy Hi Buddy!! I tried today to half roll into inverted!! At first I had to overcome myself for a while. Somehow I was "blocked" in the real world with the big M4 Max! In the SIM I always do it. But finally I overcame my "fear" and I did it: And you are so right! it's much easier to hold my heli on one place when I half roll tail in!! I was at once able to hold my heli longer than "usual", although conditions are tuff in Poland! We experience a heat wave with temperatures above 35 degrees even early in the morning. My brain and my whole body and soul have been boiled after 12 flights!! Thanks again and best greetings!!
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Keep up the practice. The wind helps build muscle memory a lot. Inverted hovers came pretty quickly for me somehow. I was much younger back then I think around 15. I'm not sure how long it really took but I guess about a month for sloppy nose in inverted. I must admit it's still not perfect now. Flips to inverted are fine in most orientations. I think I could do them inside with my m2 (I won't try) nose in inverted is as natural as all orientation right side up. Tail in sometimes I slip up and make a correction mistake. Side in is sloppy to say the least. Rolls to inverted are also not my favorite. Training piro hovers and piro flips really helped to get the orientation down better.
@RubenRC94 Thank you very much Ruben! I really like flying in wind in general and call it "my best Teacher!!". It's just that in inverted almost all controls are once again working in the opposite way and it takes me time to get it sorted in my brain and fingers. The influence of wind does not help so much :D .Being 63 does not help for sure! :D Nose in inverted is still an unnown field for me and I am very much occupied with getting the timing of cyclic and collective pitch syncronized. But your words are giving me hope and I see: Slowly it's getting better and better. Best greetings!!
@@RCCopterLove what you can also try to improve the timing of the flip and make it easier for yourself (for this you have to be able to hold the hover a bit) is throw the heli up and forward as a sort of half loop and catch it again. This makes the point where you can transition from positive to negative a lot longer.
It's hard to explain but in my latest m4 video I flip it this way pretty soon after takeoff.
@@RubenRC94 Thank you very much, Ruben! I am happy and thankful for every single tip and I will watch your latest M4 video to see what you mean! It's also all a bit about experimenting more, trying things I have never done. Open the horizon to better feel and understand what the heli does!! Thank you!!
hey I just saw your comment on my channel and thought id come check you out! Im not sure how long it took me, I been flying for 30 years but I can tell you that no matter a loop or a roll, it's all about collective management. your just not applying enough negative early enough in the flip. I learned by doing large slow back loops from forward flight, then I started to stretch them out by flying further and slower at the top until I could enter at forward speed and do 1/2 the loop and stop at the top. Im also a believer you have to learn something slow before you can do it fast. you will get it!! and good flying in the wind!!
@mykel1969 Thank you for checking out my channel and this latest video! I am doing a bit similar things but as you say my collective pitch management and timing needs a lot of training. I started the same way with low loops and on top staying longer and lomger inverted. You are right, doing it slow gives you more time. It's all about timing in all this. I feel that it gets better. I am now flying 3 years and a couple of months... and I started with 60 years. I do the same when I learn a new comlipcated basslines: starting slow and playing faster! By the way I play my Bass better since i started flying helis!! Thanks for your tips and kind words!!
@@RCCopterLove ahhh a musician!! im a drummer, but just took up the guitar. I always compare helicopters to learning a musical instrument.
@@mykel1969 Great! So we understand eachother! I am playing in a Latin band with guys from Chile, Brazil and Peru. The hottest music I have ever played! No chance to NOT dance!!And my next favorite instruments are drums and guitar!
You’re doing just fine like you were saying keep practicing on this simulator it will come Hovering. Inverted looks cool and it is fun to do. Keep up the good work.
@mikeisiah1091 Thank you for your encouragement. Yes, I will fly in the simulator and outside in summer and you are right: Especially a bit bigger helis look very cool inverted! Happy flights!
I really think you're doing well. I fly in a windy place, dont let the wind psych you out like that. You would really be surprised, the wind doesn't affect these machines as much as you think. You're well on your way. 🚁💨💯👍
@CloydyFlyerRowdyNiemira Thanks a lot for your good words. Normally I even like fying in winds. Just in inverted I mix the directions of left/right and forwards/ backwards even in calm days. I will just continue and at the same time experiment a bit more!! Best greetings and thanks again!
Hello, it's getting better and better, by flying with that wind, like here, you learn a lot, you suddenly notice that on a calm day... I saw from my bank account that January last year, my first I bought an RTF M2 Evo set, recently flew 80 batteries for 6 minutes in 7 days... I can now do several forward flips in a row, left and right tunnels, and flip backwards... I also have no more freece moments and use the rescue button every now and then... really learned a lot and so does every battery, which I find difficult, just practice < keep your Focus & you will understand the disk better and better..
@rudolphfranken1446 Thank you Ruud! Yes, i keep practicing - thats what I love so much!! Your progress sounds really impressing! Wow! Flips in a row, backflips... thses were all stages I had on my way - and as you see still have! I will take your advise and go on! I wis you the same and most of all lots of fun and joy!!