Division in the Early Church
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Division in the Early Church was something that St. Paul speaks of in his first letter to the Corinthians. Those in Corinth were claiming to belong to Cephas or Paul or Apollos or Christ.
And this factionalism likely revolved around who a person was baptized by -- Cephas, Paul or Apollos, for example.
To learn more about this passage in 1st Corinthians, about baptism, and about Paul's overall message to the Corinthians in his day, subscribe today to The Mass Readings Explained:
catholicproduc...
For more Bible studies by Dr. Pitre, visit:
catholicproduc...
Commons Images used:
commons.wikime...
commons.wikime...
commons.wikime...
I learn something new every time I watch one of Dr. Pitre's videos. God bless him!
Yes me too
I do as well. He is such an amazing scholarly Bible teacher
@tony Why 'Bible deceiver?' Because he won't acknowledge the fringe (and I do mean fringe) SDA positions you advocate?
@ tony
You exclaimed: “@Ben M YIKES!
Bible teacher?? - more like Bible deceiver.”
Please explain. Why would you think Dr. Pitre is being deceptive?
@tony
I am a convert from Protestantism, having been raised Baptist, but having attended at Catholic schools for many years. I converted about 5.5 years ago now. I respectfully disagree with your position that the Church is false.
Looking at your arguments on the link you’d provided, these are not new arguments. I also see that you’re SDA.
Thank you very much Dr Brant Pitre,,, GOD'S LOVE AND MERCY BE WITH US ALWAYS!
Me too
"5/30/11 From The Lord, Our God and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For The Lord’s Little Flock, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
Thus says The Lord: I have bestowed many gifts upon this generation, and lo, the small of My flock have received knowledge and revelation beyond compare. Yet I ask you, who has truly received? Who has been humbled by My words and given thanks? Who among all these scattered flocks has taken joy in My gifts? Beloved, who among this great multitude seeks out My will, to know it? And who, among all these so-called believers, takes pleasure in My Law, saying, “I delight to do Your will, O God, for Your Law is written in my heart”?[1]
Yet My people remain foolish, and this little flock envious. For I tell you the truth: Unrighteous jealousy is the companion of fools. For those who envy also grab hold of jealousy, walking hand in hand with covetousness. Beloved, there is but One who sees, One who knows, only One who searches the hearts and minds - I AM HE. How is it then that My people sit in judgment, judging My Word and My will, resisting My ways as they look upon others with contempt? Shall you also seek to ascend above The Most High?! Shall you sit upon My throne?! For I tell you the truth, each time you sit in judgment and question My ways, you walk in satan’s aspirations; you follow in his footsteps![2]
And when I bless another, why do you not take joy in it? And when I correct you, why do you resist and question My ways? Am I not The Lord? Do I not give to each according to their faith, according to that which I see in their heart? Why do you in your arrogance set a line for Me to follow, or think within yourselves there must be a better way? And how is it you continually compare yourselves amongst yourselves, knowing this is unwise?[3] Beloved, I have prepared a place for you! Therefore offer up thanksgiving, and cease from your complaints. Forgive and bless, let go and obey, love one another and wash each other’s feet. Take joy in all I do, especially in that which I bestow upon another. And when I feed you, eat from your own plate and give thanks.
Little flock, it is the last hour, yet many of you have stepped backward. Let it be known to you: One who treads the path, going up and down, stepping on and off at their convenience, treads not the path, but is like one who treads water. By no means shall they be able to keep their head above water, nor shall their strength deliver them in the Day of Troubles.
Therefore heed My words, and also do them;
Be wise in your dealings with Me,
Humble yourselves and remember...
Blessed are those who run to Me,
For they shall be blessed in My presence;
Even more blessed are those who run to Me,
Then obey My Word, for their blessing
Is complete and they are at peace...
Deliverance they shall surely know...
Says The Lord."
www.thevolumesoftruth.com/Delight_in_the_Ways_of_The_Lord
After learning about Dr Pitre and listening to his talks, I learned so much and over time obtained all but one of his books, the one I do not have I cannot find under $100 or more. He has become my favorite modern day theologian's. Second on the list is Dr Scott Hahn
I love the laugh at 3:33 because of the realization of what he was going to say
I had this very question when I read that sentence, "For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the Gospel..."
Please see in You tube " Apostle Paul - Antichrist " by Jeffrey Daugherty.
Dr. Brant Pitre,, can I ask you the questions that the other religion used to bully about our Catholic beliefs,,,WHY DO WE HONOR, OR PRAYED ON MOTHER MARY AND SAINTS,,, I want to answer them correctly because I always got hurt every time they told me that we practice idolatry 😢,,, please help sir!,,, and thank you!
Idolatry is where we set up things to worship which are not God. It's not honoring people who are not God.
Catholics do not consider Mary or the saints to be God.
It's that simple. Refuted.
idang nasagac stay strong in Faith God Bless you
Ave Christus Rex good answer! It's important to keep this explanation short, simple, and easy to understand, which you have done well. Pax Christi to you all!
here you go my friend....www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/devotion-to-the-blessed-virgin
Tell them that without her Christ couldn't have been born and none of us would be saved and that the 12 saints wouldn't have been chosen. If they say why do we pray and honor them it is to fulfill one of the commandments of honoring your father and mother but be specific now that you are a child of God because Christ has saved us when he went to the cross.
"5/30/11 From The Lord, Our God and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For The Lord’s Little Flock, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
Thus says The Lord: I have bestowed many gifts upon this generation, and lo, the small of My flock have received knowledge and revelation beyond compare. Yet I ask you, who has truly received? Who has been humbled by My words and given thanks? Who among all these scattered flocks has taken joy in My gifts? Beloved, who among this great multitude seeks out My will, to know it? And who, among all these so-called believers, takes pleasure in My Law, saying, “I delight to do Your will, O God, for Your Law is written in my heart”?[1]
Yet My people remain foolish, and this little flock envious. For I tell you the truth: Unrighteous jealousy is the companion of fools. For those who envy also grab hold of jealousy, walking hand in hand with covetousness. Beloved, there is but One who sees, One who knows, only One who searches the hearts and minds - I AM HE. How is it then that My people sit in judgment, judging My Word and My will, resisting My ways as they look upon others with contempt? Shall you also seek to ascend above The Most High?! Shall you sit upon My throne?! For I tell you the truth, each time you sit in judgment and question My ways, you walk in satan’s aspirations; you follow in his footsteps![2]
And when I bless another, why do you not take joy in it? And when I correct you, why do you resist and question My ways? Am I not The Lord? Do I not give to each according to their faith, according to that which I see in their heart? Why do you in your arrogance set a line for Me to follow, or think within yourselves there must be a better way? And how is it you continually compare yourselves amongst yourselves, knowing this is unwise?[3] Beloved, I have prepared a place for you! Therefore offer up thanksgiving, and cease from your complaints. Forgive and bless, let go and obey, love one another and wash each other’s feet. Take joy in all I do, especially in that which I bestow upon another. And when I feed you, eat from your own plate and give thanks.
Little flock, it is the last hour, yet many of you have stepped backward. Let it be known to you: One who treads the path, going up and down, stepping on and off at their convenience, treads not the path, but is like one who treads water. By no means shall they be able to keep their head above water, nor shall their strength deliver them in the Day of Troubles.
Therefore heed My words, and also do them;
Be wise in your dealings with Me,
Humble yourselves and remember...
Blessed are those who run to Me,
For they shall be blessed in My presence;
Even more blessed are those who run to Me,
Then obey My Word, for their blessing
Is complete and they are at peace...
Deliverance they shall surely know...
Says The Lord."
www.thevolumesoftruth.com/Delight_in_the_Ways_of_The_Lord
Often a belief that rendering someone more honor will cause a disorder popularity that need correction or it could be internal dislike that the viewed interpretation needs orientation to what really matters is Jesus Christ the Great King. If correct then absolutely true, if not a sign of insecurity creating ignorant errors and division. I have seen it!
It's actually because every Christian has a specific calling in service to Christ.
Taylor made for you.
Work out your calling with fear and trembling and mature into sainthood.
God bless you
cant wait for Protestant comments on this one: how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell in DISUNITY Psalm 133:1???
@tony We dwell in the fullness of Truth you are welcome to join....
@tony Protestants are very good at dividing I am watching the Methodists do it right now...
@tony there are other ways to maintain unity orthodoxy and obey John 17 without constantly splitting into splinter groups...www.ewtn.com/catholicism/teachings/st-cyprian-the-unity-of-the-catholic-church-201
@tony amen brother, grace does not mean we DON'T have to keep the Law, it means we are ABLE to keep the law....
@tony if you dwell in fullness of Truth how come there is so many different denominations each with different Doctrine coming from the same Bible?
THIS IS WHAT DIVIDES THE CHURCH:
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. (Jude 1:3-4, 17-19 NIV)
Jesus didnt baptise with water either... This is where catholics get the gospel wrong....John 4:2 KJV - (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
If Catholics claim to own an earthly appostlic succession. Then they must accept they are the successors of Diotrephes in 3John 9..
Namely they are the successors of the ones that kicked out the beloved apostle John and his brethren. Kicked him out from Johns very own church.... Wow. You gotta be a special kind of arrogant to kick out the beloved of Christ.. but there you are. They really do love the preminence.
And that same spirit continues to the end.
@Matthew Aislabie
You claimed that “If Catholics claim to own an earthly appostlic succession. Then they must accept they are the successors of Diotrephes in 3John 9..
Namely they are the successors of the ones that kicked out the beloved apostle John and his brethren. Kicked him out from Johns very own church.... Wow. You gotta be a special kind of arrogant to kick out the beloved of Christ.. but there you are. They really do love the preminence.
And that same spirit continues to the end.”
Please look at Acts 1 (BibleHub):
Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas
12 Then *the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives* , a Sabbath day’s walk c from the city.
13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. *Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James* .
14 *They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers* .
15 *In those days Peter stood up among the believers* ( *a group numbering about a hundred and twenty* )
16 and said, “ *Brothers and sisters, d the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus* .
17 *_He was one of our number and shared in our ministry_* .”
18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:
“ ‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’ e
and, “ ‘ *May another take his place of leadership* .’ f
21 *_Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us_* ,
22 *_beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us_* . *_For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection_* .”
23 *So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias* .
24 *Then they prayed* , “ *Lord, you know everyone’s heart* . *Show us which of these two you have chosen*
25 *to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs* .”
26 *Then they cast lots, and* *_the lot fell to Matthias_* ; *_so he was added to the eleven apostles_* .
From the Introduction to 3 John from the NABRE (USCCB):
www.usccb.org/bible/3john/
“ *The Third Letter of John preserves a brief glimpse into the problems of missionary activity and local autonomy in the early church* . In contrast to the other two letters of John, this work was addressed to a specific individual, Gaius. This letter is less theological in content and purpose. The author’s goal was to secure hospitality and material support for his missionaries, and the Presbyter is writing to another member of the church who has welcomed missionaries in the past. The Presbyter commends Gaius for his hospitality and encourages his future help. He indicates he may come to challenge the policy of Diotrephes that is based on evil gossip.
The problems of the Presbyter in this short letter provide us with valuable evidence of the flexible and personal nature of authority in the early church.”
“In contrast, Diotrephes refuses to receive either letters or friends of the Presbyter. Although he is portrayed as ambitious and hostile, he perhaps exemplifies the cautious and sectarian nature of early Christianity; for its own protection the local community mistrusted missionaries as false teachers. Most interestingly, Diotrephes seems comfortable in ignoring the requests of the Presbyter. The Presbyter seems to acknowledge that only a personal confrontation with Diotrephes will remedy the situation (3 Jn 10). The division, however, may also rest on doctrinal disagreement in which Gaius and the other “friends” accept the teaching of the Presbyter, and Diotrephes does not; the missionaries are not received for suspicion of theological error. Diotrephes has thus been viewed by some as an overly ambitious local upstart trying to thwart the advance of orthodox Christianity, by others as an orthodox church official suspicious of the teachings of the Presbyter and those in the Johannine school who think as he does, or by still others as a local leader anxious to keep the debates in the Johannine community out of his own congregation.
This brief letter and the situation that it mirrors show us how little we know about some details of early development in the church: schools of opinion existed around which questions of faith and life were discussed, and personal ties as well as doctrine and authority played a role in what happened amid divisions and unity.“
Where does your reference hint at what you claimed?
@Matthew Aislabie
You stated: “ Reference is in the Bible. Specifically book of 3John.”
Where specifically? There is no such claim.
@Anthony Louis
You asked: “ Where are the historical records to support that nonsense? Can you quote any early christian writings, for e.g from the immediate successors of the Apostles?
It's all available in the public domain, go and find one or be quiet.”
I’m not sure if in answering, you were addressing me or someone else.
In any case, here is some info:
Successors of the Apostles (Catholic Answers):
www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/successors-of-the-apostles
The Fathers of the Church (Catholic Answers):
www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/fathers-of-the-church
The First Successors of the Apostles (BibleHub):
biblehub.com/library/pamphilius/church_history/chapter_iv_the_first_successors_of.htm
The Apostolic Fathers (Wikipedia):
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Fathers
The Apostolic Fathers (NewAdvent):
www.newadvent.org/cathen/01637a.htm
Results from a search on the Early Church Fathers:
www.newadvent.org/utility/search.htm?safe=active&cx=000299817191393086628%3Aifmbhlr-8x0&q=Early+Church+Fathers&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A9
@@kainosktisis777 I'm pretty sure Anthony Louis was replying to Matthew Aislabie.
Also, your own in-depth rebuttal was quite illuminating. I appreciate your effort - it's on a subject I hadn't previously been aware of.
@ironymatt5
You commented: “@kainosktisis777 I'm pretty sure Anthony Louis was replying to Matthew Aislabie.
Also, your own in-depth rebuttal was quite illuminating. I appreciate your effort - it's on a subject I hadn't previously been aware of.”
Thank you. I am a firm believer in researching the faith (That’s how I ended up Catholic. I found that I had a lot of misconceptions that with examination got cleared up). The history is there for those willing to dig deeper & search. I am a former Protestant who’d come into the Church a few years ago. Most times when I see people make certain comments, I believe they really don’t know why Catholics believe as they do. So I try to explain & point their way to where they’ll find answers. Some take the info & ponder it more. Some get angrier. Some regardless will disbelieve. Ultimately God is in control, & the best I can do is to give a defense of my faith - give the reasons why I believe. For some no answer is good enough, & no answer will suffice.
Other sources:
The Coming Home Network:
chnetwork.org/
Catholic Bridge:
www.catholicbridge.com/
Isn't this division a sign of flaws in the scripture itself?
um...NO
Actually we were told to expect this division, in Sacred Scripture.
Christ never sent Paul anywhere. He never met him or spoke to him.
I thought Paul met our Lord on the way to Emmaus?
@@zacharyvandress1120 I think you're thinking of the road to Damascus, Zachary, but you need to understand Paul glandy doesn't seem to care what is written in Sacred Scripture. He accepts some of it and rejects the rest.
@@paulmiller3469 you're right it was the road to Damascus. The point was you said he never encountered Christ and I showed you were he did. I'll read up more about St Paul I do know that the other Apostles did not trust him at first but later on accepted him and he is called an apostle although not one of the original 12. Your thoughts about him are just that and you're welcome to them but I don't think you're any kind of authority
@@zacharyvandress1120 No, Zachary, I'm not Paul glandy. I'm a whole different Paul.
@@paulmiller3469 glad to talk to you Paul Miller my mistake
Answer is simple, Paul was a false Apostle ?
@ Eugene Bastian
You stated: “Answer is simple, Paul was a false Apostle ?”
How do you figure...?
@@kainosktisis777 Paul perverted the teachings of Jesus. According to his " justification by faith theory " , no matter how much you sin, you will be declared innocent by God the Father. This is a licence to sin. When he said law was a curse, he cursed the giver of Law, Yahweh. By saying , salvation will not come by good works , he discouraged charitable deeds , thus opposing Matt, 25 : 39 - 45. Please see in Internet : Paul's Contradiction of Jesus . Also see in You tube " Apostle Paul - Antichrist " by Jeffrey Daugherty .
Also for me Paul is suspect. His three different stories how he was converted makes me think.
@Bill Ferner
You commented: “ Also for me Paul is suspect. His three different stories how he was converted makes me think.”
Perhaps this might offer some perspective on the matter...
From CAF:
forums.catholic.com/t/paul-cant-remember-what-happened/73848/6