Does THE LAST OF US Get Fungus Science Right?
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- čas přidán 16. 02. 2023
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HBO’s THE LAST OF US is a critically acclaimed adaptation of a beloved video game, but it does make some big changes. Is there real science behind fungus that can…talk?
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*Thanks for watching!* No real spoilers here, and the show is really good.
Love you Kyle ❤ there’s not really mushroom to improve on the games but they did it and they didn’t have to Truffle too much
Plants can not only divert nutrients. They can even send these. There has been an experiment where saplings were wrapped in foil to cut them off from the atmosphere, while surrounding trees were wrapped and "fed" with radioactive marked molecules. Some of the marked molecules ended up in the sapling. The results were published in Nature, titled "Net transfer of carbon between ectomycorrhizal tree species in the field"
Chill out "Jamo Sonmoa" best regards!
If you could be a science advisor of a game-to-tv adaptation that has not been done yet, what game would that be?
The Last of Us is a video game that portrays a fictional world in which a fungal infection has caused the collapse of human civilization. While the game takes some creative liberties with the science of fungal infections, it does draw on real-world scientific concepts and research to create its fictional universe.
In the game, the fungal infection is caused by a fictional fungus called Cordyceps brain infection, which is based on a real-world fungus called Cordyceps. In reality, Cordyceps is a parasitic fungus that infects insects and other arthropods, taking over their nervous systems and using them to spread its spores. The game's fictional version of the fungus takes this concept and applies it to humans, resulting in a post-apocalyptic scenario in which infected humans have lost their cognitive functions and become aggressive.
While the game takes some liberties with the science, it does accurately portray the concept of fungal infections and how they can affect the nervous system. The game's depiction of the effects of the fungus on the human body, including the growth of fungal structures in and around the brain, is also based on real-world science.
However, it is important to note that the game is a work of fiction, and some of the details of the infection and its effects are not entirely accurate or plausible. In reality, fungal infections do not typically cause such extreme changes in behavior or physical transformation in humans. Nonetheless, The Last of Us does a good job of using real-world science to create a plausible and immersive fictional universe. - ChatGPT
I didn't used to like fungi
but after a while they grew on me.
❤ love you man
Dad, when are you returning home with the milk?
You should probably not just let that happen...
Have you visited your dermatologist recently?
Put down the joke book, Ellie.
OMG KYLE! Thank you for mentioning that “in the biz” less spores means less particle effects. I’m not a VFX artist/animator myself but working in the animation industry, that was my first reaction upon hearing about the change from spores to mycelium - “less budget for particle effects”. 😂😊
maybe but particle effects, especially something relatively simple like spores aren’t that expensive; it might be creatively kinda dead ended from a vfx stand point, but I don’t see how it would cost more… they might have to contract out to 1 less party, so in that sense it would make workflow easier
I beleive the director said its rlly hard to show emotions through gas masks
@@hellfish2309 Seems like the all-around better choice, the point of a tv-show is to "show" you things and I imagine they don't help there either. Like in a video game generally obscuring vision is great for atmosphere but easier, cheaper, safer, more fun for the artists, and better for the shot? honestly sounds like the right call.
Thought it was masks that were the reason
@@ribz4539 it was lol
I’d like an adaptation of TLOU with Kyle as every character
Instead of having cordyceps fungus growing out of them, the zombies all have illustrious hair
@@TheFunwichHorror: Yeah, but if that's the downside, you'll get thousands of balding people just throwing themselves at the infected, screaming things like "HAIR! FINALLY HAIR!!", "TAKE ME, YOU GOLDEN-LOCKED GODS!!!", and "FUCK ROGAINE!!!"
@@sdfkjgh 🤣
This. Where's the Patreon sub level to make this happen?!?!?!
@@sdfkjgh
Hair treatment products sales went straight to the moon
Fun fact: Cordyceps infecting an ant doesn't touch the ant's brain, until it explodes out of the little dude's head. It's entirely possible the ant is completely aware (to the extent an ant is "aware", blah blah blah) the whole time while the cordyceps controls its muscles and mandibles like some horrible marionette.
Yep sounds like fun
Raccacoonie ;)
Like their own tiny gods..like a humans dna
I did not need to know this... Definitely not because that is now a horrible fear of mine. The voice in my head definitely isn't asking if I'm actually in control right now
@@mikeroberts9299 you’re not
I heard they removed the spores partially because it didn't make sense that there were clearly delineated areas where spores were no problem at all and where they were immediate death. Realistically, you'd breathe in a few spores much further away.
but that is how mold and fungal spores work
It would've been an easy fix i believe. Having LARGE clusters of spores be visible. Sorta like dust falling. But in reality its trillions of them. And outside, like only a few thousand that aren't visible.
So the characters would have to breathe in trillions of them at once in order to get infected by it. But if they breathe in a few spores the fungus dies almost immediately cause it wasn't enough to infect the human body.
Something like that could've fixed spores.
@@whyyousalty9186 apparently the fungus infected people through the quantity of food infected with the fungus consumed (according to joel in ep3 aka the gay sex episode)
I dont think it was a change, i think it was to explain a gameplay mechanic where infected attack the play for no reason
@@whyyousalty9186 If just eating spores or mycelium started the spread I don't think it's believable that it takes trillions of spores to become infected. So removing the spores was a good call.
So they actually talked about why they moved from spores. You're partially right in that they didn't want their cast masked up the entire show. But they also said that they felt that having the spores, at least how they behaved in the game, would stretch the suspension of disbelief a little too far. Spores in the game are VERY locational and don't stick to anything... you need to put on a mask to enter a room with spores, but can immediately take the mask off when you leave said room and the spores aren't on your clothes or anything. They didn't think that folks would buy the idea that spores wouldn't just go everywhere. I am curious to see how this translates into S2 because while I don't think it's critical, the topic of having to be masked up around spores came up as a fairly sizable story moment a couple times in Part II.
oh damn thats right. That scene/part was brutal. I wonder how they'll change that one. Maybe they'll make it so that bloaters throw spore bombs at you and that's one of the things they find in that hospital basement.
Suzanne Simmard: "The trees are talking and exchanging resources!"
The trees: "We have just finished saying "Good morning"."
It’s not rare that adaptations alter lore. It’s rare that they DO honor the source material
Asmongold said something like this.
Ppl dont give a shit if the lore is changed, people give a shit if it has been made worse
last of us clearly didn't and they made it worse
yes, that was the joke. r/whooosh
@@waterboi4846 u got offended by episode 3 didn’t u
Thing is, most people dont understand that usually the changes are made because it either doesn't work in TV/movie format because it requires too much screentime to explain/set-up or because its too expensive to shoot, or a host of other perfectly valid reasons.
I only take issue with changes that were made just for the sake of it and not because of the constraints of reality or money.
From a gardener’s viewpoint, I love seeing mycelia when planting new things. I know it’s a healthy soil system when I see it. I’ve also seen mycorrhizae fertilizers that include fungal spores that encourage that plant-fungi relationship.
do you think they talk about you as some sort of god? a strange bipedal giant that rips the soil and puts more nutrients and seeds as if summoned by your own will, then put the soil together and walk away without saying a word in their language...
Plus the director explained that from his experience directing Chernobyl, filming with gas masks is difficult, and not something we would want to see all the time.
Besides that, how it was portrayed in the games was not really logical. There are many cutscenes, where they rip off the mask immeadeately after leaving a spore infested zone, they also never disinfect their clothes (Joels flannel shirt must be soaked with spores). They didn't really take PPE seriously :D
@@nikethunner2732 plus turning zombies into a pulp while not wearing any gloves
Speak for yourself, I would’ve loved to see some cool masks but have the spore disinfecting adapted realistically.
Kyle mentions that at 10:30
@@klulu-kun hour episode of them boiling water, washing their clothes, waiting for it to dry, getting dressed only to repeat the second they bump into infected again. 🤣 Great tv.
As somebody that grew mushrooms to supplement income during college, I really have learned that fungus is damn near magical if you don't understand what it's doing and more importantly, WHY. Then, once you understand more about the whys and hows, you become even more puzzled and intrigued. Then you fall down the bottomless pit that is mycology.
What do you think is the WHY ???.it's so fascinating ...I suppose we can get down to the WHY of any life on this planet ?? More than a food chain ??
Whats goin on??
Fungi always creeped me out. They are like the spiders of the plant world.
Fungi aren't actually plants.
@@BigMikeMcBastard True, but "they are like the spiders of the animal world" wouldn't work in this scenario.
Fungi aren't plants.
W pfp
I think fungi are more like cephalopods, totally different from everything else.
I'm hoping Neil Druckmam applies the change to the sequel. I'd love to step on a fungus tentacle and hear the rush of a horde running my way
Now that would be a fun mechanic, you could direct the hord twords human enemys
But there is already a sequel and it doesn't use the changes seen in the show. Unless you mean a part 3
the reason they removed the spores is that the director finds filming with gasmasks makes the audience not connect to the characters.
Weird.
@@mrjtfang2 the director directed HBO's Chernobyl, so he definitely knows about gasmasks and actors, not nuclear power though.
@@kommandantgalileo Meant 'not connecting' in this case.
Like... I don't know how to comprehend that. It's like saying no ones capable of connecting with Din Djarin until he takes his helmet off.
@@mrjtfang2 yeah, it's weird
pedro wore a helmet a whole ass show season
It's weird how often in nature these systems grow up stronger because of sharing and redistribution of resources. Neat, though!
I think it shows just how flexible nature can be in order to survive. That... as well as the hundreds of millions of years these species have been working together. Some adaptations are hilarious, but you can understand why they work.
I think you used the perfect word to describe it: "system". We're part of an amazing, terrifying, living network.
commie
@@DancingAngelOfSpira i think hes a communist/socialist sir...
weird? humans are intended to be that way
Damn Kyle is throwing so much shade he could start a whole fungus farm
Your thumbnail for this video is absolute gold Kyle! Thank you for all of the great content you’ve given us.
right
The relationship between mycorrhizae and mycorrhizal plants is an example of a mutualism. All mutualisms are symbioses but not all symbioses are mutualisms. I noticed during the show that they were shying away from the spore idea. I'm glad you caught that even more-so than me! Fungal spores don't disperse far on their own, usually only a few feet if that, but any mature fruiting body that a human could come into contact with would be infectious (but in Ellie's case not necessarily able to cause disease). It makes sense that once a fungus has caused a disease (a symptomatic reaction) it is incredibly hard to get rid of because of the cellular similarities between humans and fungi. We thrive within similar temperature and moisture spectrums and most antimicrobial drugs/agents would also hurt the human host just as much as the fungus acting as a parasite (which is also a type of symbiosis!) Getting over the human immune system in the first place is the biggest "plot gap" in The Last of Us. Another potential plot goof is that the pathogen can survive on grain/plants/a very different host long enough to be used as a dispersal mechanism but doesn't seem to have a resting spore stage. Resting spores are incredibly advantageous but if these existed for this pathogen then all bodies, regardless of age/moisture, would have the potential to be infectious. Spores have very small energy reserves, unlike plants with seeds c: -A crusty Forest Health graduate
"that would be cool and accurate--the best kind of cool" lol great line
I hope you've seen the Fantastic Fungi documentary. Seems like it would really be up your alley
I had to pause at 54 seconds just to say that you have serious Bill Nye the Science Guy energy in this episode and I am HERE for it.
Zefrank really primed me for The Last of Us with his slime mold episode.
The show’s intro is so much more interesting after having seen that video
That thumbnail cracked me up 😂
Given your sample set, I can only infer that Wing Commander was a spectacular production.
What? What does that old game has anything to do with this?
@@Napoleonic_S there's a Wing Commander movie, written and directed by the dude's who is currently the CEO/lead designer for the company making Star Citizen
@@AJ-em2rb
You mean scam citizen, what does both have anything to do with this video though?
This was really interesting! I knew about plants and fungus communicating but I didn't know that it was so extensive. Also Craig Mazin has done really great work recently with Chernobyl and Idk how much input he has on it but Mythic Quest is also really good. Gives me hope for the Borderlands movie.
Kyle, I must argue with you! Street fight is a gem! A diamond in the rough! Raul Julia perfection. Van dam on nose Candy is absolute gold
So if it controls the muscles are their minds trapped in their own bodies being a puppet of the fungus?
In the podcast for episode 5 the show's creator/game's writer confirmed that yes, the person remains trapped in their body for perhaps a week or so. They described it like an acute state of confusion, almost like a really bad drug trip. You'll see yourself doing these things and know you're maybe hurting someone that you love, but you can't stop yourself. After enough time though sufficient areas of the brain are destroyed and the person becomes non-sapient.
Thank you for this video!! I loved it
Neil was only co director of the first game and it seems he's changing things to tie things closer to his sequel.
You mean making it worthless?
@@Asertix357ye
10:21 Also also having spores all over the screen will throw the compression into whack, like watching a screen filled with snow particles or confetti. Tom Scott did a great video about it :)
Thanks for the video Kyle!
Omg that scene that you had as your background just reminded me of the scene when the horse was killed. I can't remember if it was in 1 or 2 at this point I played so long ago
I always love Kyle's videos. But today was extremely informative. 2+ years later, I find out that there was a Monster Hunter movie made lol
It gets a lot of flack, but I think that's mostly because it used a "modern soldiers get dumped into the Monster Hunter verse and have to escape" framing device. It's fun, the monster depictions are pretty good, and it ultimately shows how badass the hunters are and why their weapons are the way to go.
What Monster Hunter movie? There was no live-action MH movie made, dunno what you're talking about. It doesn't exist
-LS main
@@westrim i would have thought it got a lot of flak for glaring vfx problems. The only things that looked good in that movie were the monsters. And they only looked good when against the cg background. The lighting was terrible, the colors for the physical set were off, and the character design looked like okay cosplay.
The plot was lacking but not really that bad, and the acting was probably what you'd expect for the script. The rest of the movie looked like an unresolved conflict.
It's made by the same director and team as the awful Resident Evil adaptations, so if you've seen those you might be able to go in with better expectations.
@@gorisenke Most people never got that far. They saw a trailer with modern military members and formed their permanent opinions.
I'm not going to diss the movie that gave use such a great line as
"For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day in your life, but for me? It was Tuesday."
Street Fighter is one of those so-bad-it's-good kind of films. You watch it knowing it's bad, but you enjoy the cheese anyway.
@@OzzyBen07 same with the original Mortal Kombat
@@AndrewDembouski yeah I half agree, but that also had some legit kick ass martial arts in it
Man I learn new things, thanks Kyle
While watching a full TLoU 2 stream I had a great talk with another viewer about mycology, fungal immunology, consciousness as an emergent property, and so much more. It was a lot of fun
While I am happy with the addition of the mycelium, I really appreciated the unique take on the transmission method the game had and its similarity to the closest real world examples.
I would have liked both.
But still the show is amazing.
The main reason was the mask as one of the producers or directors was apart of the Chernobyl series and commented on how hard it was to show emotions in masks.
Love the Tron reference! Great facts on fungus. Can't wait to ruin the next dinner party I go to!
Thank you for such a wonderful video kyle!!! Love the last of us so much. Thank you for covering it
The Fun Guy joke got me good lmaooo also this just made me appreciate the series all the more
*ITS JOELIN TIME*
Oh hey there's JaxBlade
I don’t think cordyceps interacts with the mycelia though. It mainly spreads via spores and ants which are mobile and therefore cannot take root in the ground.
This one does which is why its even scarier
Such an interesting topic, great video. Wish I could like it more than once.
Kyle, you totally nailed it with the observation about masks at the end. Craig Mazin, one of the showrunners for TLOU also made HBO's Chernobyl series. In that show, characters wore masks and it made some aspects of filming difficult. This was a large part of the reason for removing spores from the show.
Mycology is super interesting. I started growing mushrooms at home and it's so cheap and easy and educational. Managed to get my son interested in it since this show got popular. I grow cordyceps and a number of other edible mushrooms. Medicinal ones can also be grown just as easily, hint hint.
I think that any adaptation of a pre-existing work should have some changes from the source material, otherwise you're just selling people something they already have. For example, as much as I don't care for the Halo show, I do agree that it shouldn't have been bound by the games. I wish they had actually committed to that idea and instead told stories set in the Halo universe, but following characters and scenarios we never saw before; like following a team of ODST's trying to escape a planet before it's glassed, or the story of a civilian who witnesses the flood infestation on Earth. I don't think it should have had anything to do with the Master Chief because the games already tell his story, and I certainly don't think it should have been a soulless, generic, unimaginative, made by committee cash grab. Adaptations need to be made by people who are familiar with, and are passionate about the source material, and any changes made need to be made because doing so would make for a better story, and not because they could "attract a wider audience".
@rabidrabids5348: I've been saying for years now that Star Trek needs a show about a small space trader dealing with the day-to-day ramifications of that 'verse's politics. How many spacelanes are affected by the Neutral Zone? How does the DS-9 wormhole affect the price of goods and the cost of fuel? How much trade happens between the Alpha and Delta Quadrants?
@@sdfkjgh I haven't really watched much of any Star Trek, but isn't the Federation a post-capitalist society?
@@rabidrabids5348: Post-capitalist, post-scarcity, yes; but that doesn't mean that EVERY society in the 'verse is, and trade still needs to happen, as does the transport of goods and people. Remember, not everything can be made in a replicator.
Seeing the huge grin while getting into the details of fungus was just too cute.
Fungi and mushrooms have always been so fascinating to me. There's so many different kinds out there and also mycelium that can apparently make you trip balls. I want to know more about it now.
Street Fighter is a MASTERPIECE, a Belgian playing an American and doing NOTHING about his accent? Raul Julia shouting GAME OVER?! The TUESDAY Line!?!?! MASTERPIECE I say!!!!
@@Die-Angst Jean Claude Van Damme is Belgian and played the lead my dude
Hello Everyone, I am from the future.
Very nice
Oh so you're from the future?
Name every year
Nah, youre from the past actually
Does my wife ever come back to me?
Wannabe Trunks cannot even spell Saiyan (Saiya-jin) right.
Love this type of format. Reminds me of your old stuff. ❤
Discovering your channel was a blessing
I don't appreciate the Bill change, I like how Frank and Bill were in the game and also the interaction with Bill and Ellie is something we wont get to see :( I was totally on board with the episode until Frank just got sick and then Bill did the thing instead of what actually happened in the game :/
I'm on the fence, while I loved the interaction with Ellie and Bill in the game and would've loved to see it, they did an amazing job with the backstory and I love nick offerman as an actor and he killed it.
I don't appreciate Bills recasting. It wasn't necessary.
Both were good: from an adaptation standpoint it’s risky to keep the non-interactive audience on board for Henry and Sam’s demise if we had left Bill rotting in his town scorned by Frank, stacking misery on misery… might as well leave them on a less horrible note while Joel learning the same lesson from Bill as he did in the game
I liked it. He went from an example of what Joel will end up like if he doesn't change into an example of what Joel could be if he does change.
@@MikefromTexas1 it was. Con O'Neill had to drop out because of scheduling conflicts.
Shout out from your biggest fan from Jamaica. Also, I'm thoroughly enjoying the show
I’m going to use this info in my next circle of the spores Druid build.
Great video, Kyle.
Remeber that guy that injected hallucinogenic mushrooms into himself and then the mushrooms started growing inside him?
Fellow -emia lover I see
The miniature is gold! 👌
Thanks for your work
Maaaan this was an awesome episode! ❤ Still laughing my a** off 🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, Kyle. You are adorable and funny and my whole family enjoys your videos.
Love you Kyle wish you could do my college research assignments
I think deemphasizing spores was smart. That UV vision from the game would get old fast for television (though I did think they were gonna do it in the 2nd episode with the flashlights covered in UV lenses).
I would be very curious if you were to do a follow up talk about the Mycelium network used in Star Trek Discovery. Give it the same thought and treatment as you did for this video.
I came for the thumbnail 😆😆, but stayed for the science!!!! Love your work Kyle.
4:26 You and the plants form a symbiotic circle. What happens to one happens to the other, you MUST see that!
Mycorrhiza is a term I first learned from Anne McCaffrey's Pern series. One reason of many I am such a fan of both science fiction and science
Oh how I have missed your beautiful thor hair and magic science talk. Nice to see you again :)
The Thumbnail is one of my favorites by far!
Great video, thanks
Amazing! I'd love to know what you think about the mycelial network & spore drive in Star Trek Discovery.
@3:06 the only muscle that really matters
Heart: Am I a joke to you?
Now I really want to check this show out!
I love your video. You have a very good vide :) and it's always fun and interesting
I use specially cultivated Mycorrhizal Fungi to grow bigger weed plants.
Best thumbnail I'd ever seen on here. Period
I literaly just thought about how cool and accurate what they did was and then i see this video
Best opening 7 seconds to any video in the history of videos.
Trees communicate with each other. That's amazing. It makes sense that anything living thing that learns to thrive will find a means to communicate, but it is always awesome to learn the many ways that nature has found to make this happen.
The thumbnail. I'm dead 🤣
Just getting a glimpse of the thumbnail made me crack up real bad XD
Was fun seeing this episode as I actually had a bit of knowledge about the fungi but absolutely nothing about the last of us.
So I guess the only question I have is if it just spreads through it's strangely locomotive hyphae, why does it have the fruiting bodies coming out of folks' domes?
Because even though it infects humans via the hyphae, infecting humans isn't the only way through which it spreads. The fungus also spreads itself through suitable substrate, like soil, which is why there are underground mycelium in the first place. That's what the spores are for. So although the spores in the show apparently isn't enough to infect a human (perhaps the immune system is enough to kill the spores), the spores can still germinate in soil, etc.
@@syd.a.m Ok. So, how'd it spread to humans? At the very least it seems like they'd be less cavalier around the fruiting bodies. Just nitpicking. Love the show and the science. And just being curious of the things I don't understand.
@@justinmyers6737 Episode 2 tackled their theories on how humans first got infected. Basically, they think the spores first contaminated the flour or a similar staple product, which allowed it to spread to a huge segment of the population as that product was consumed. Since the contaminated product was a staple that was regularly consumed in large quantities, it can be assumed that the initial spore load at the point of infection was high enough to overwhelm most people's immune systems. So basically, the spores are still infectious, it's just that simply breathing in the spores apparently doesn't give you enough of an infectious load.
@@syd.a.m I saw that one. But didn't draw the same inference. Thought they just weren't addressing it. Either way. Don't think I'd go poking around an infested corpse.
It's like they work like Aspen trees a type of Rhizome.
That thumbnail hilarious 😂
Love the thumbnail picture for this video! Reminds me of aphex twin
As messed up as Street Fighter is for a movie based on a video game, Raul Julia makes it a classic to watch. You could remove everything else, but Raul Julia and that would make for a fun watch. For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
There was also this thing about the fact that he adlibbed most of his lines.
RIP RJ 😢
His performance is the one thing that saved the movie. He knew how trash and shite the script was, so instead of playing the character straight, he instead chews the scenery like he was starved for weeks and hams it up to the point that it loops back to awesome. Instead of this being a black mark for being his final film role, his performance as M. Bison instead elevated it to something that fans fondly remember.
This has one of the best video thumbnails I've ever seen. S++
That thumbnail is absolutely gold
Lmao! I wasn't planning on watching this, since I'm not that into The Last Of Us (show and game) but the thumbnail definitely suckered me in! 🤣
Brilliant episode.
Honestly I wasn't considering watching the show soon but knowing of these (neat) changes made me wanna watch it asap, I've seen giffs from the show of Pedro and the other actors aka I know the acting is on point as well so all in all I'm excited.
This is the best thumbnail I have ever seen lol
That thumbnail terrifies me more than cordyceps zombies. Well done, Science Thor!
That thumbnail is pure art.
That thumbnail is perfection. 🤣
Lol the shirt you are wearing in the better help segment looks like crazy bad dandruff.
There's a really good radio Lab podcast about this call tree to shining tree I think
Good work
You know it's kind of interesting how mycelium and roots and neurons look very similar