IS PATRICK ROTHFUSS BETTER THAN ROBERT JORDAN?! - FANTASY DEBATE
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- čas přidán 23. 02. 2020
- LET'S DEBATE THE FANTASY GENRE!
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I think the reason why most fantasy adaptations fail, is because the directors and writers aren't fans.
Yes, you have a point. Look what happened to Percy Jackson. Damn, they butchered the story of son of Poseidon.
or their not the right sort of fan. before I sound elitist let me explain. You have two basic types of fans, 1) I read the books once and I liked them, but I'm not seeking discussion about it. Let's call this a passive fan. 2) I read the books and I liked them, I like talking about them and I have/will be reading them again because I think there is more to read into and I liked it that much. Let's call this an active fan. Passive fans are fine, nothing wrong with being a passive fan, halfway through WoT I was a passive fan, but passive fans should probably not lead the adaptation, they haven't put as much thought into the essence of the book as the active fan. the passive looks at the dancing scene in Baerlon and sees dancing, the active fan sees important character moments, such as the beginning of Rand and Egwene drifting apart, something I didn't catch when I was uncertain about the books, but did on a reread. Of course active to passive fandom is a spectrum, I just think so often directors are picked from the passive side.
Okay that actually was elitist, I'm sorry
@@ryuukake You are forgiven :D and right. I recently warched almost all the behind the scenes and how it was made on the LotR films, and not just Peter Jackson, but almost everyone in the team was a huge fan, and an active fan. Or at least they became active fans as they worked on the adaptation. And when you watch the films, it definietly shows.
@@papermoth I know, I think I've watched all the LotR special features at least twice. Which makes it really difficult to wrap my mind around what happened with the the Hobbit. (I have my suspicions there might have been to many studio requirements, ie there had to be at least one romantic sub plot, and they needed to make three movies, because that will make more money.)
@@ryuukake Peter Jackson got in over his head cause he jumped in without a plan basically, it was supposed to be directed by Guillermo del Toro and he had already been part of writing and planning but the production was halted cause they didn't get greenlit by the studios etc etc so eventually del Toro left and Jackson tried to take over but it was too much too fast, something along those lines, there's even production videos where Jackson openly admits having no idea what they where doing, I think sometimes they literally just shot lots of fight scenes hoping to find use for them later and things like this.
I like this new style of Daniel's magical green screen, he can basically break the rules of reality and move whatever he pleases.
I watched iCarly too
@@deusexmaximum8930 You mean iDaniel.
This boy gets more and more creative since the first time I subscribed to his channel.
He has discovered the lost Talent of Travelling around the screen 😂
Yusss!! haha I dont like the mic though... coming from an audio engineer, it pains me
Mistborn should really be a videogame.
The powers based on items, kelsier tutorial, you can even tell how vin levels up... And the game mechanics with alomancy to fly around building could look AMAZING. And would make a very interesting combat system too
Well there was going to be one called Mistborn Birthright with a original story from Brandon himself, it was in development for a long time but it was cancelled. I think Brandon mentioned he might still release the story for birthright someday but still a shame about the game.
CD Projekt Red is the best option to make this game.
For once, I don't agree. CDPR's strength is story not Gameplay, though their gameplay can be fine. I'd give this to a dev team with a great history of movement mechanics, perhaps Respawn though EA's involvement is unfortunate.
@@ankushnishad1165 I know!!! such a shame...
Maria Paz G. Lesme Yh CDPR’s combat isn’t the best tbh, my least favourite part of Witcher 3
At least Robert Jordan had an excuse to not finish his books.
death is no excuse, finish from beyond the grave
Modern fantasy fans are just spoiled. It was about 17 years between the first time Tolkien started to work on The Lord of the Rings and when it was sent to the publisher.
and he still found a way to finish it!
Not read Robert Jordan yet is on my list. Again I’m not being a dick but people are constantly on about book 3. Pat is a good guy and I just want to say I’d like too see others write a complex series. I’ve tried to write I can’t do it because I’m to self critical I write a page and then scrap it because it’s shit. Now fantasy OMG that stuff is hard to write masters like Martin and Rothfuss struggle with time frames I don’t care how long it takes id rather have a beautiful mind blowing conclusion than a rushed peace of shit like GOT season 8.
@John Locke I wouldn't use that kind of attitude if I was so clueless that I think WW1 had any bearing on LotR when The Hobbit was published in 1937. If you think WW1 happened after that you are mistaken.
WW2 didn't have all that much effect on Tolkien either. The bigger effect was that he was working full time at the university, which he did all the way through WW2, when he wasn't out on the countryside (where he had more free time).
Rothruss definitely wins in the beard contest. Did he swear not to shave 'til he finishes his book?
😂imagine, he might end up actually regretting it.
Rothruss? Beard? And you mean to tell me this isn't a 40K character???
I was in a shop the other day and every single fantasy book was in the YA section. Every. Single. One. Including Joe Abercrombie.
YA is a distinction that I find difficult because, at 25, most adults still consider me a young adult... YA fiction is written for (in my estimation) 10-15 year olds. Those are older children, not young adults...
Lol older children verse young adults is like comparing a hamburger with cheese to a cheeseburger
I hear ya man. I had the same problem when I was in that age group. Still I’m surprised you go to book stores, the internet; it’s better here
Agree so much about Mistborn! To me they almost read like movies, even down to cinematic fight screen descriptions. The stories are fairly simple and concise (not a criticism, I love them) and the characters are strong, perfect for a movie.
The Tolkien Estate also hated the Lord of the Rings movies. This is a quote from Christopher Tolkien about them: "Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time, the chasm between the beauty and seriousness of his work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me, to turn my head away."
I get not liking the Hobbit films but you phrased it in a way where it seems you think the LotR films are divorced from any sort of criticism from the Estate. "They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25," is another quote about LotR from Tolkien. Personally, given all of the behind the scenes garbage it is a miracle that these films are as watchable as they are. LotR had multiple years of pre-production and the Hobbit had only a few months. While the Hobbit films absolutely fail to live up to the legacy of their predecessors I do think it's a little unfair to hate them because they are commercial products, because all movies are.The three movie plan and rushed production was 100% Warner Bros, and dicsounting all the work that people put into it, not to mention all the good there is in those films, of which there is plenty is an unfortunate way of looking at those movies.
I agree with the estate on all the films. The characters simply get butchered. Even in the extended editions. Merry and Pippin’s development is completely destroyed (the elimination of Merry/Théoden and Beregond/Pippin moments is keenly felt). Imrahil is more or less cut out, Beregond and Halbarad are cut completely, Faramir’s character is absolutely destroyed, Théoden’s character suffers severely as well, Legolas and Gimli become caricatures of badass and funny-man, etc. I don’t even want to bring up the nonsense with Aragorn, Elrond, and Arwen, or how Denethor just becomes a crazy meanie (further polluting Faramir’s arc).
The more times I re-read the books, the less I can tolerate the failings of the films. There’s just no subtlety to them at all.
"every author is better than every other author in some ways" I knew you were a Terry Goodkind Superfan :)
better thief.
@@instinctz1 Oh please. He borrowed a few concepts but his stories are nothing alike The Wheel of Time.
Jacen Solo Nah in general he was just not a good writer that really needed to put Atlas Shrugged down for a couple minutes
Rothfuss also likes to write stories that read completely differently when you re-read them. Also mistborn should be a video game.
Madison Baldwin I finished them for the first time about 6 months ago and I’m already looking forward to a reread
They made the VR experience for way of kings. Fun game and amazing graphics. Not perfect but worth getting it if you have VR
Not a VIDEO Game, but Sanderson did make a tabletop out of Mistborn:
www.amazon.com/Mistborn-Adventure-CFG07001-Brandon-Sanderson/dp/0982684398
I loved Rothfuss, but I wanted to finish the "Name of the Wind" books and he just quit on us.
Daniel, have you seen the WoT fan film “Flight From Shadow?”
Not debatable, it’s a hundred times better than Winter Dragon.
Ooh I want to check it out but I’m overly worried about spoilers, I’m assuming it be super early stuff but can you confirm if I’d have anything spoiled for anything book 6 onwards?
@@j-jackquinn5540 It's just from the first book
I’m sure you’ve already seen it at this point but you should check out The Dusty Cut Matt Hatch and his son did of Winter Dragon? If so what did you think?
Love daniel but one thing that irks me is his insistence that quality=influence in the genre, which really isn't true
Well it was eye opening when he did the top 50 fantasy list and didn’t know half of them. Sometimes quality isn’t always the most popular, well-known.
If Voldemort’s past and experiences and thoughts would have been explored a bit more, I think he’d have made a better antagonist. It started, but was very short
No Voldemort's motives aren't why he is a shit villain. His execution of his terrible dumb plan is.
Neil Gaiman's Stardust is, to me, a great example of a film that is extremely different from the source material, yet remains as good as the book.
Wait a second. Rothfuss writes books?!
yeah I thought he was just a CZcams celebrity!
LordMichaelRahl he wrote them. Past tense
The king killer chronicles
matthew tate he means that cuz it’s been so long since the last book
I don't think he does.
Anymore
I'd love to see a video on Genre being a marketing ploy specifically wrong genre classification killing certain novels. I have no examples off hand
In terms of worldbuilding NO... But in objective writing ability YES. Rothfuss' prose is outstanding. In Jordans case you could cut every book in half by eliminating all the worthless curtain descriptions.
Hey I like my curtains
Curtain descriptions? Is that actually a thing?
Yes yes it is
Debatable. Cleaner and trimmed down prose isn't necessarily better imo.
And you could probably cut WMF down by a third by dropping all the Gary Stu ruminations.
I honestly agree with the villains hot take at about 3:40. And I really do think having a pure evil antagonist as the main one can be helpful.
Of course having multiple antagonists and ones with humanity and motivation are great, but I think theres still a ton of value in pure evil.
You could explore the nature of evil as you do it, explore how people overcome it, overcome evil desires, obstacles, and what you do when you come across someone in life. Just to name a few things. Didnt have a lot of time to type this but yeah.
Kefka from Final Fantasy 6 is a wonderful villain. He's pure evil, and the majority of the fandom loves him. Morgoth is another fully evil villain, and he still works fine. So yes, you can have pure malice in a villain.
I can't wait to see who you get for your version of Rich Evans.
It’s like a tums party in here.
That is my favorite line from Samurai Cop 💕
Also while i'm at it. Give Dune Messiah a chance! It re-frames the entire first book and adds so much to a reading.
I would be happy if Mistborn was adapted with the skill and quality that was given to the adaption of Arcane.
That is goal ! This series in an example of good adaptation, and of good realisation in general, I wish we see more of that in the future
I can't accept less for a series I love as much as Mistborn
I'm so happy with your response to comparing authors. Great video as always Daniel!
@DanielGreene I am happy to see my comment was chosen. I do love the older Star Trek shows, even Voyager which gets a lot of hate. But Farscape...Farscape was something special. It still had very prominent themes and tropes of older Sci-Fi, but had a seasonal arc and narrative that was much more present than previous Sci-Fi shows. It also has some of the best characters and character development in the genre (and out.) If you have never seen it, you owe it to yourself to watch it. It is a good blend of old and new Science Fiction.
I actually went on to try Farscape while about midway through SG-1. It was a lot of fun but also - and possibly unfairly because precedent bias - it came off as Stargate-lite and for that it didn’t really capture my attention enough to finish the series. I might try again though. Admittedly it was cute to see Claudia and Ben suddenly appear In canonical SG-1 episodes in the final seasons.
Really enjoyed this style video, and your thoughts!
Hi Daniel, I was inspired to read by your recommendation on the Stormlight Archive half a year ago. I've been reading more books since following your recommendations among other booktubers. I have been following you on CZcams since I found your channel and I absolutely love your content but.. I hope you will do more 'WHY YOU SHOULD READ' episodes since that's what got me started on reading. I'm sure it will help a lot of people to get started on their reading too or might get them out of a reading slump.
If Doors of Stone ever happens I might be willing to discuss this.
This is a fantastic format keep it up
I would love to see more of this type of video from you periodically. It’s fun. It hits hard. It has a quick pace. This and fantasy news are a good balance to your more focused deeper videos. The one thing that was very distracting and just plain weird was when you would roll around in your chair and we could see below your waist. With that camera angle, it was...awkward. If you had been standing, it probably would have been fine. The angle of your seated body on an invisible chair was just plain strange below the hips. In no way am I implying anything sexual, either. Otherwise, I am loving your green screen work.
Thanks for the debate Daniel, this was great! :)
My big problem with Rothfuss is how much he's clearly been influenced by Jordan, yet he claims he hasn't read WoT.
Nah it's Tolkien that he's influenced by that also influenced Jordan. I'm pretty sure Jordan read a similar amount of fantasy books to Rothfuss which both played a huge role in their writing. But given the quality of prose between Rothfuss and Jordan...in what way are they similar? I'm sorry but Rothfuss is the better writer even though I know it's subjective.
But fans of Wheel of Time have told me that you enjoy the books if prose doesn't bother you which is VERY. TELLING.
Nah, any author that takes 15 years for a trilogy he claims was already written 20 years ago aint that great.
These debate videos are great
That's all base on preference and not performance. Wheel of Time is one of the most critically acclaimed fantasy series of all time and has the sales numbers to boot.
Agreed on Mistborn as a movie, it was almost written that way, same with Reckoners. Sanderson does have other series that would make great tv series.
Well played, great commentary
👍👍
I dont disagree with mistborn, i think it will fit best as a movie trilogy
It has been a while since I read Rothfuss' work, but I remember finding it very interesting how effective he was at writing character learning new skills and techniques. It felt like I was being taught, but it did not linger too much. We understood the fundamentals, then moved on. The consequence of that, to me, was that doing so allowed him to use this new skill as a means to solve problems without making the resolution feel cheap.
Yeah, I hate to say it but rothfuss wins. I hate it because he isn't going to finish the series, at least not for many more years
man watching the evolution of this one book boy over two years has been so fucking blessed, continue to kill it my dude 😁
I'm digging this green screen. Floating Daniel
yep you came up in my recommend feed. very happy
Hot take: The Stick is a shard of Adonalsium. Specifically it is an avatar of Autonomy
Dude, you are having waaay too much fun with your new green screen.
Love it! (Although maybe a little too much "Upside-down Daniel")
But hey, that's me. You go buck wild, sir!
More fantasy debates please!
I would love to know your take on the last 2-3 seasons of GOT. Because that is completely Dan and Dave doing whatever they wanted with the story, and they literally destroyed it. ASOIAF is one of my favorite stories and GOT literally broke my heart. So much potential and they literally said “Screw the fans. We have no clue what we’re doing. So here ya go.”
Would click on any video anyway but now it’s not just to see what content you have but also to see what fun there’ll be with the greenscreen
Looking forward to more Trek Talk!
Before watching the video, I will say that Rothfuss' prose is really high quality, but overall his books suffer from questionable plotlines, just as WoT does. But its understandable for WoT, which gets a bit bloated due to how many books and plotlines there are. Rothfuss seems to be lost in his plot by book 2. I dont believe at all that he can finish his story in 1 book and make it satisfying in any way. Years and years ago i thought that first 3 books will be sort of a prequel to Kote becoming Kvothe again, and from that point him trying to fix things he did, in new book series. But now, this idea seems to be gone, after so many years of nothing as it would take him at least next 30 years with current speed.
Edit: of course the end may be him dying, understanding that he cant fix anything, alone and abandoned. If thats whats he going for, good for him, but after all these years it would be worse than GoT 8 season in terms of subverting expectations.
Yeah, I read speculations that Patrick doesn't know how to finish his book that's why he's stuck.
It may be true for we can only speculate until he completes it. I feel that it is more that some people don't like keeping track of multiple plotlines and mysteries in their head they just want a few questions unanswered such as in Sanderson's works (Stormlight doesn't suffer as much from this).
Great format for a video, makes me think of NajeyJakey more than Fantano. Not sure why the comments aren't fully expanded when shown on screen. Stretching the images to fill the screen looks ugly, honestly, I'd prefer a generic background like a fantasy world map, a landscape or something cool instead of a stretched low res movie poster. Just my two cents, love your content my dude, hope to see more like this in future :)
Oh damn, if your getting into sci-fi would Hyperion or Dune be making an appearance on your channel?
Mistborn would make an absolutely incredible anime. Hell, *any* Sanderson work would make amazing anime due to how clearly influenced they are. Stormlight in particular is HEAVILY anime.
Not even going to bring up Farscape for that last question... What the frell?!
Definitely agree about the YA thing. I mean SO many books with pretty X rated stuff are marketed as YA and then stuff that I would consider Middle Grade also gets put in there. What is YA? There are tons of videos on CZcams trying to answer that question but I dont think we're going to come to a satisfactory answer as long as publishing companies continue to market books in such an inaccurate manner.
What I got out of new trek movies is what I got out of new star wars. "In theater- that was awesome! Walking out - wait...that was stupid!"
No. There, I answered the question lol.
Do you plan on making future videos using the ones from that comment section, or new comment sections before each video?
Love the green screen, but the ratios of the pics is driving me crazy
I dont want a one to one adaptation, some things just dont carry over well. like im glad Tom Bombadil was cut from the movies, would have been a very bad fit in there. I do think an adaptation needs to stay true to the overall story though (yes there are some cases where this is not a good thing, more so with some older scifi, that would need some big updates to even seem scifi) There will be some changes some people love, while other hate them. Thats often down to, is this char your favorite or not. When it comes to Wheel of Time, I really hope they try to stay very true to the books, but some things need to change, like the ending of Eye of the World. I dont like the idea of Perrin being married from the start, but i see how it could REALLY REALLY work for his character arch and his later relationship and the fears he has. Its all about how well its emplemented and also, does it make the series better for the non book reader. One thing Peter Jackson wanted to change for LotR, that would have been bad in my view, that they ended up filming but cutting, was having Arven join the fight at Helmsdeep, im glad they cut it, but I fully understand why they wanted her there, THEY NEEDED to show the main romantic relationship in the story, the movies needed it, in the end they showed some flashbacks and dream segments, which is often not the best way of doing things, but sort of worked in LotR.
Curious if you've seen and have an opinion on Howl's Moving Castle or The Magicians? Both adaptations grew into their own stories that were very different from the original story. Do you feel that they were justified in doing so? Is it excusable that they changed the story so much because what became of it is good in its own way? (I know u mentioned older scifi already, but those changes don't have much choice, but yet it was definitely a choice from the writers to change these two)
Man I gotta say, un-serious background Daniel is my favorite
''I''m open to the idea of any author becoming the next great author'' Does that also go for Terry 'Ayn Rand's #1 fan' Goodkind?
About what you said about the mistborn being a movie, I think your completely right it wouldn't really work as a TV show it's to centralized, at the very least you lose nothing if it's made a movie the pacing is perfect for a live action movie and honestly I couldn't think about how'd you actually split it into a show without pacing problems
Would be great if you put a list of questions and timestamps in the video description!
I've tried to get through Night Angel twice and just kinda stopped partway through book 2 both times. It kinda made me just assume I wouldn't like Lightbringer either. But your comment makes me want to check it out!
14:42 Love your background. Looks dope. Are you indirectly promoting Bernie Sanders?
@Daniel Greene. I would add Lies of Lock Lamora to the list of books better as movies as well. It would be a great "heist-movie", but I don't think you can spread that concept out over a whole season of episodes.
Daniel, have you read the Dune series? This video just made me think about it with the discussion of sci-fi and WoT playing with established tropes...
He's reviewed the first one, he wasn't a fan if I remember.
@@KitchenSinkSoup Hmm, l'll look up his review. Thanks
Hello Daniel! I have about 15€ to spend on amazon, I want to spend it on a book, but I don't know which one. I mostly read fantasy, and for the last week I've been searching on google things like "best fantasy books", but I can't decide on which one to buy. What book would you recommend at that price? Thank you!
I’m curious about your stance on Mistborn and the best medium to portray it. Some time ago (the video you said it in escapes me, sorry lol) you said that you thought the best medium for Mistborn to be portrayed in would be a video game, any reason you’ve changed your opinion in particular?
@daniel Hey, random question; when young (er), did you ever read the Song of the Lioness (and sequel series) by Tamora Pierce, or Young Wizards series by Diane Duane? A bit young for YA, but the latter really took my love of fantasy and set it in stone.
I don't think he's read any Pierce; he did receive a book of it a few weeks ago and he didn't recognise it. Not sure about Young Wizards though
Have you not read HP?!? Voldemort has motives and reasoning. Sure, he isn't perfect, but he's not that flat.
- He's got a fear of death, because his mother died and he thinks that being as powerful as wizards are, she shouldn't have and thus blames her death for leaving him.
- He grew up in an orphanage, which just isn't a nice place period. He always felt out of place there and not belonging.
- He learned early on that he could make people and animal do things with his power and without proper guidance it just made him think he was a god.
- He is the heir of Slytherin, which is a goldmine for someone who grew up not even knowing magic existed.
- He's from a bloodline of inbreds.
- He was put in Slytherin, which is a house full of discrimination towards muggleborns and muggles. The Slytherin's all learn it from their parents and when put in the same house they just fuel each other's racism.
- There's even a legit prophecy about him dying. Of course he would try to stop that by killing the one who is supposedly going to kill him.
- WW2 just about started when he left school, so he would have probably been scared of the muggles because of that, just like what Grindlewald showed everyone on the second fantastic beasts movie
- Dumbledore, instead of guiding him, treated him like he was broken
I've probably still forgotten some stuff, but these are from the top of my head.
Giving "reasons" for bad people being bad is not the same as giving them depth to their motivations. There is no nuanced depth to Voldemort's evil acts, he wants power and control so he can't be hurt/killed. Thats about as shallow and uninteresting as you can get. Blanket otherworldly evil is more interesting because it is unknown and unpredictable. Don't really agree with Dan either, so much of the trope of the bad guy being the "good guy" from the other perspective, while it lends to a more complex and sympathetic character, it has really been done to death and isn't all that great anymore. I think the two character tropes that have the fewest examples done well, and can really make any story, would be a fallen hero antagonist, normally we simply see this as a shallow backstory explaining the "reason" the bad guy is bad, but rarely do we follow them expecting them as the protagonist to fall. I think some good examples can be found in TWD. The other would be the antagonist having a real redemption story. Too often it is simply the triumph of the protagonist to "convert" the enemy to the good side. These kind of character tropes are typically found in fantasy where everything is morally grey, which too often is done artificially and that makes it pretty poor, or it is highly realistic because reality is mostly morally grey. I think this is where Jordan shines, because he writes characters realistically. They are all prejudice, and there is always the capacity to make the wrong or right, good/bad decision and this makes for the most engaging story. But some people just want simple good and bad, and why we can enjoy Harry Potter while honestly critiquing it and saying Voldemort is a shallow trope of an antagonist.
Honestly, with the Trek thing, I think it should officially be split into 2 groups, old trekkies and new trekkies. This is not an age division but a Star Trek era one. I love the original series and Enterprise, TNG I'm just getting into and I'm not sure how I feel about it (it might just be because I LOVE the Constitution class and dont like the Galaxy, but that's just me). If you want something old trek type, just watch The Orville, it keeps to the more trek roots than modern trek
Commented this same thing. People don't give Orville a try because it's Seth Mcfarland and it was originally marketed as a comedy. It has a bumpy start but once it finds it's footing it is a show entirely about the characters and having those moral and philosophical dilemma's. People should give The Orville a chance!
Check out Chris Wooding’s Retribution Falls and The Ember Blade? Great fantasy’s.
I didn't feel the ember blade, alot of dumb decisions and I didn't like the killed that musician at the end of the book
Whoever said stormlight is already better than wheel of time is on crack
My response to YA novels: It seems to me that a lot of YA novels in the fantasy genre fall into the "princess/prince coming into her own" trope which I don't hate, I'm just tired of it and when I pick up a YA book, most recently the Queens Thief series (Which I like, a lot), I can't help but fear that I am picking up the the same "princess/prince coming into her own" thing. It seems that "princess/prince coming into their own" is a very popular place for YA fantasy to go, but, and I can't stress this enough, there are good versions of that story, there are change ups, and there are other types of YA fantasy.
It's been ages since I've even read fantasy, but I have a vague recollection back in the day of a lot of YA fantasy being about "magically-inclined person coming into his/her own" rather than prince/princess. Have the trends shifted or was I just biased towards reading certain sorts of books over others?
I hate to be the one to say this but most ya are written by authors without the ability of maturity to write adult books. The ya genre is littered with cliches, shallow characters, immaturity not mention “girl power”. The later bugs me because it is so prevalent that it is pushing teenaged boys away from reading books. Just my thoughts
Oh my God, I can't believe I was featured!
With villians, I sometimes come across some that become very cruel because something traumatic happened to them, and I find them just as enjoyable as those who have motives that they believe are right and that you can kind of agree with.
Those who become pure evil because they just snap are no less enjoyable to me than those who are evil because they're pursuing a bigger motive that they believe in.
To be honest, I would just love any Mistborn adaptation: tv show, movie, animated, live action, whatever. I don't think it would be the easiest series to adapt but I have no doubt it would be successful if they manage to do a good job. The story in itself is amazing, and its pacing makes it really good movie material in my opinion. The whole time I was reading it, it felt like a movie in book form.
I don't think that whether a villain has a tragic backstory or sympathetic motivations, or whether they just enjoy being evil or doing evil things, really has much to do with their quality as villains one way or the other, and I've never liked it when fans or writers or writing teachers use that as the benchmark for whether an antagonist is good or not.
I would also argue that whether or not someone is an interesting anti-villain or not is partially dependant on the reader / viewer and what they bring to the table. A lot of people find Thanos in the MCU sympathetic and interesting think that he made some good points...but if you know anything about how overpopulation actually works, especially how it would work for a space-aged society, his motives and actions are nonsensical and can take you right out of the movie.
There are also villains who supposedly have sympathetic backstories or justifications that, on close inspection, could really just be using them as an excuse, and they ARE in fact driven by petty or horrible motives, and are just in denial or even flat-out lying about them. On the flip side, a lot of villains are considered pure evil just because their backstory is not explored at all, or explored but the critic / reader just doesn't like it.
If you want to make a really good villain, focus on things like giving them good dialogue, making them believable threats, making them a foil to the hero in some way, making them effective in their actions, make them thematically relevant perhaps (or, conversely, introduce fresh new themes into the story) etc. How despicable they are or are-not is really a secondary issue.
@@jonathancampbell5231 that was kind of what I was trying to convey, but you did a better job of explaining it than I ever could, and added a lot more interesting thoughts on top. I agree that whether a villian has a sympathetic backstory or not doesn't change my enjoyment of them or how good they are. What makes a good motive is definitely subjective too, some people might agree with the villian's motive while others would write it off as ridiculous.
@@Simmi_ And sometimes people agree with the villains' motive so strongly they hate the villain for being portrayed or acting like a villain.
Saw on IG that you listen to Mac Miller, and just when I thought I couldn’t love you more you raised the bar even higher DG
Mistborn should be a trilogy of movies with Michael Fassbender as Kelsier and Maise Willians as Vin. Stormlight should be a animated tv show
lol... Daniel, did you actually finish the Night Angel Trilogy? Or do you continue to base your opinion of the Trilogy on the first book? :)
With regards to the villains can be totally evil, I think that actually can be true if you are trying to make your villain an overarching threat that has to be destroyed, particularly if they only emerge as the true and final antagonist towards the end of a series. For example, the Others in ASOIAF, they are purely evil, they just want to kill everything, but the side villains, Tywin, the Boltons the Freys are the secondary villains that have more personality and emotional drive with them. Or Mass Effect, Saren and the Illusive Man were compelling villains for their emotional and psychological resonance. The Reapers worked as villains because they were cold, heartless machines that cannot be reasoned with and just want to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy (and when they suddenly weren't they became awful). So if your goal is to have villains that threaten the fundamentals of life, then being things that we simply cannot connect to or bargain with kind of works, but if you're after a villain that is posed more in direct opposition to the protagonist, then I think you're right, there should be more emotional resonance. Your point with Voldemort was pretty spot on in this case, he is mainly framed in direct opposition to Harry, despite his threat to the overall wizarding world.
More trek would be great! It would be interesting to hear you defend your opinion of TNG as the best show, I thought you would be more of a DS9 guy.
Daniel, looking thin my dude. Good job!
Daniel, do you mind doing a video on how to get better at reading? I honestly struggle to read but I really want to 😭
Practice. Take classes.
Daniel, I was wondering. Since you read a lot of fantasy books with many many characters that all have their own personality and behaviour. Do you read with their voices that you either know from a show, or making them up in a way you think fits them. Or do you just read with your normal inner voice? I tend to read in the character's voice. It reads slower, but for me it does add something to the whole experience.
Our favorite green screen boi is back to bless us babes
Trek hasn't been trek for a while now...as a child and teen I liked it for the feeling of travel, of getting to know new places and cultures...now it's all pew pew.
He's not even close to Jordan! Not even a little bit.
Rothfuss is definitely Not, an "author".
He build up a world as a late D&D teen, published two books from it years later; and that's it.
He's like a cheap Rimbaud ripp-off.
Never achieved anything in his life: he went to university for ten years, yet never got a PhD in anything, didn't finish his book series, the adaptation deals from his books never gave up anything in the end...
Meanwhile, Sanderson is already writing the script for his movies and TV shows, signed with big companies around the same time Rothfuss got his own deal.
But studios know the difference between real workers and total posers.
No reader will ever trust Rothfuss about anything, especially not following him through any new book series.
He's finished as an author.
You inspired me!
Great insight, i largely agree with all your opinions. Although to me the hobbit movies were merely ok as opposed to bad. My issue was the tone. I'd have prefered them to be done a little differently. Slightly more light hearted perhaps. Maybe not Peter Jackson's LOTR early yars feel. Just my take.
Hearing what you've said about Picard sounds like a good warning. Oh man - at least I know it's coming now .
I would love to ee more trek on the channel.I think discovery had some trek like moments, but I miss ideas and ethics being the central plot point.
I do really like the idea of animation though. Not necessarily with Mistborn (though I am not opposed to it), but for fantasy in general. I am just thinking of Malazan. It is so weird and has so many outlandish and epic large-scale things happening, I cannot possible see a live-action adaptation working out well.
Looks like Daniel is enjoying his green screen 😆
for YA: read Throne of Glass. I love this series, even though its starts out hitting a lot of the stereotypes, but it grows into such an epic. 8/10
I'm surprised to see this suggestion. So many plot holes, characters changing personalities to fit the plot, and overall felt like it was written for young teen girls.
@@doity I definitely see what you are saying. I read it when I was just starting to read fantasy again, and I wasn't very attuned to those kinds of things. By now its just nostalgia for the characters.
I like to think of some TV shows as one big movie. Netflix has given us the 13 hr "movie" model and I'm not afraid to say I'm addicted. Each episode flows into the next and you have to binge it
But why do you use the cover art from Brent Weeks for you thumbnail? 🤔
For a split second I thought you where gonna say "Magnificent melon head"
You've really hit on something with the green screen here!
I feel this needs a revisit if the series actually finishes
I tend to agree with animated for most fantasy. Mistborn I think they could do justice to either way.
One I Very much wish they'd adapt to a series is "His Majesty's Dragon" (Napoleonic wars, add dragons as actual characters in an aerial corps. super well done- particularly on Audio.)
For the adaptation, I am fine if the story is a bit modified to adapt the length of the book to the length of the film/series but I think they should be as close to the original in term of character development, interaction and stories. If you want to loosely adapt something with other theme and other character (whatever the reason) it's fine, just don't say that it's the adaptation, just an inspiration and that's ok for me.