I put a set of Brandonwound PAF 59' clones in one of my Les Pauls, 7.6K neck, 8.2 bridge and 50's wiring. I have never heard humbuckers this bright. They are so much more useable than my set of Dimarzzio high output pickups that my other LP came with. They do remind me of my Tele just not as scooped, but I can go with that beefy Tele descriptor.
Brandonwound pickups are great sounding pickups and get you very close to that coveted 50s PAF Sound. Especially with the 50s wiring with good capacitors!
Awesome subject mate. I think a good starting point on this is Jimi Page , who played miracles with his Number One '59 LP so close to the wonderful madness of a Tele's bridge pick up. Indeed he recorded many tracks using a tele (the Dragon) or switching - sometimes in the same recording - Telecaster to Les Paul and vice-versa. Cheers & Peace!
@@JoePerkinsMusic Yes, and the T Top that went in circa April 1972 was possibly even more 'Tele on Steroids '...It was his 'Woody,' neck PAF that has NEVER been replicated by Gibson , Duncan etc...My pickups finally crack the code on my channel if you are a Page Tone Chaser. His neck PAF had a higher DCR than the bridge but had an odd magnet..It was a very strange PAF.
He probably used several guitars per track on some albums?.I don't recall him saying it though. Possibly Physical Graffiti on? I don't have a source on info on that though. Zep 1 was all Tele...Zep2 &3 was all Les Paul ( no Tele sounds there)
@@oldasrocks9121 No, a new bridge pickup went in April /May 1972..Neck Pickup stayed the same throughout Zeppelin.. BOTH pickups were changed by the 1990s by Seymour Duncan. You could SWAP Neck and Bridge pickups over on a MODERN set so the approx 7.5k was in the bridge and the 8k+ was in the neck. In theory,this would get you closer to Pages set with the DCR being closer, but you'd still have the problem of the magnets being all wrong ..The DCR ( resistance) is not the most important thing.
Fantastic video Joe! I've been finding myself transitioning to lower output humbuckers for all the differences you pointed out. Less compressed and more clarity due to the extra high end content, which I tailor further with pot values. My fave magnets right now are alnico 4s and 5s. Great work my friend. Cheers!
As an affordable alternative to the amazing boutique PAF replicas you've featured, ... to give you the tele on steroids sound: Dimarzio PAF 59. Everyone complains that the Dimarzio PAF 59s are too treble-y, too open, too biting, and too low gain, with not enough mids, and that they're not wax potted so they're more microphonic... ...well yah, just like a real PAF,...and just like a tele on steroids. I think with Seymour Duncan making their "PAFs" so compressed and dark sounding (no doubt to make the bedroom volume players with bright caps happy), many people don't know what an actual PAF, into a classic non-master volume amp, at proper stage volume, is supposed to sound like in real life. Many people who only play at Maddison Square Bedroom volumes poo poo Dimarzio's PAF offerings, but at stage volumes the Dimarzio PAFs retain their clarity and dynamic/headroom (similar to a real PAF), whereas many Seymour Duncan PAF models turn to compressed, soggy, muddy, mush with little clarity and even less dynamic. One isn't better or worse, just different applications. If you never leave your bedroom or turn your amp volume above 2, and you want to feel like a rock star, then Seymour Duncan has your number. But don't kid yourself that that's what a real, vintage PAF sounds like. Generally speaking, once you get your tube amp master volume (power section) at or above about 40 or 50%, the EQ (not to mention sometimes clipping) of the power section comes into play, increasing the bass and fullness of your tone. That's where Dimarzio PAF 59s and similar boutique PAF clone designs come alive, with clarity, articulation, balance, and bite with beautiful bloom. As you goose up your power section to 70 or 80% with Dimarzio PAF 59s and other boutique PAF clones you enter a state of pure bliss. Power tube saturation, harmonics leaping off the fretboard like fire and lightening, clarity and articulation, with an attack and bloom to die for. However, again, generally speaking, this is long, long after many Seymour Duncan "PAF" pickups have ceased to function as musical, which I've generally found starts to happen at about 40 or 50% of amp master volume. So, horses for courses. But again, don't kid yourself that many Seymour Duncan "PAF"s are anywhere close to an actual PAF at that point. Obviously the affordable Dimarzio PAF59s don't hold a candle to a real PAF, or the expensive and accurate PAF copies, but for general tone, the Dimarzio PAF 59s are much closer than the Seymour Duncan PAF offerings, in my humble opinion and experience. Sweeping generalizations, yes, but I don't have all day, so the standard YMMV disclaimer applies.
I have two 59 PAF bridge models and those are pretty good modern pafs, yeah. Sounds more like some of those real cream white 59 les paul pickups but not completely like you said too.
I mean, like Joe Bonamassa says, the original PAF humbuckers were supposed to sound, and we're designed to sound, just like the p90s that preceded them, except these new fangled humbuckers were supposed to, you guessed it, buck the hum that you'd get from p90s. As a resource (I have no affiliation whatsoever), Joe Bonamassa is featured in a GuitarMusicPro CZcams video published April 9, 2017, comparing a brown-top Les Paul Standard with p90s to an all original vintage 1959 Les Paul with PAFs. The difference is there, but it's pretty darn close. Now, I'm not a Joe Bonamassa fan, couldn't name even one of his songs, but from what I understand, if anyone would know about real PAFs it would be him. So if your "PAF" clone humbucker doesn't sound reasonably like a p90, then it's kind of missing the point. Now, for those that don't know, a p90 is a single coil pickup, with lots of aggressive attack and a load of transients, a snap and bloom, a sparkle and a lot of treble content, with lots of air frequencies and a large dynamic range, and with a characteristic ragged grind to the tone,... and all of that is a bit thicker sounding than, say, a Strat bridge position single coil, ... so p90s are right in the same zone as a good Tele bridge pickup,... and as noted previously, per Joe Bonamassa, the original PAFs were designed to sound like the p90s that preceded them, ... So a good original or cloned PAF should also sound like a Tele bridge pickup, in a similar way that a good/original p90 does.
The best PAF-style pickup I have had was a set of Dave Stephens VL2s.... simply unreal! I compared it to a set of Seymour Duncan's Seth Lovers and the latter sounded like a joke. The VL2s had incredible clarity and warmth.
I'd like to try a set of Stephens Design PAFs, but the _pay-upfront-and-receive-pickups-in-some-years-maybe_ business model doesn't really work for me. I did consider going for them but he never replied to my emails to potentially order, so...I'm happy with my ThroBaks/Monty's/OX4/Wizz' :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic yes, I guess that the model is less than ideal. You have some really nice pickups there, btw... that's the main thing. These are only tools. Sadly, I had to sell my VL2 set but I still have my Stephens broadcaster pickup. Sounds great as well! Dark, midrangey and super dynamic
I disagree with the statement that original PAF sounds like a "Tele on steroids", even though when you played the Bailey it sounded close to the Tele. I would like to hear the Bailey and the Tele into a completely clean amp and hear if the gain has any influence in the end result. To me, the real "Tele on steroids" is the Firebird, the guitar and the pickups. It has that Tele twang but thicker, with the classic tele sparkly highs. Joe, maybe it's time to hunt down a Firebird?
We also have to factor- Less wind on individual magnets of the PAF humbucker than the tele, overall slightly more winds, a lot more MAGNET on the PAF, this chemistry of magnet alerts the resonance and electromagnetic response through the full spectrum available to the Pickup from the given set of strings and the tuning they are set at. The position of the Pickup along the string also affects the eq node response / dampening. Like how different acoustic guitars sound different, it's usually the way the acoustic design is limiting resonance throughout the guitar. The Dimarzio is limited to larger dynamics, that compression is not the Pickup though, it's your amps impedance mismatch to the Pickups. The amp input can't except the Pickup output, it's too strong. The Pickups aren't more compressed, in physics it is known as a closed energy Circuit - there is no way to alter the energy inside that circuit without altering the amount you put in via the DC current from and returning to the amp, therefore the changes in output and perceived compression are actually occurring in the input stage of the amplifier. Double the wind doesn't mean double anything else, just like double the wattage isn't double the volume for an amplifier. Us guitarists are far too simple (me too).
after having had a few sets of pafs and pat's and having kept my favourites, I can say that the old ones definately seem to have that quality. Thinner, brighter (tele type bright), narrower sound than any replica I've played...and very transparent and accoustic in the top end...that last part, it's because they tend to be a bit more microphonic than most remakes...I think that's a big part of the sound. my set read 7.2 bridge, 7.7 neck. Anyhow, the Tele on steroids isn't inaccurate for the sound of an old one, or a new pickup that manages to capture that vibe...your Throbaks seems to do a great job there. also bare in mind a lot of guitars pafs are in these days, their centralabs often measure 700k or so...even more. they go up with use
I used to hang out on some "tone-centric" bulletin boards like the Plexi Palace Forum and the Metro Amp Forum, and that phrase "Tele on steroids" was most often used to describe the sound of certain P-90s, as I recall. Which makes more sense to me, a Les Paul with a P-90 in the bridge can sound pretty similar to a Tele, but a bit hotter. But it's been quite a few years since I did a lot of forum-lurking; maybe the jargon has changed during the interim. I mean, I can remember when "access" was a noun and not a verb and when I was _very_ young, "gay" meant "happy" and "cheerful," not "homosexual." Maybe what's driving all this is the tone of the Strat. To me, a Tele kind of sits tonally in the space between the Strat and the Gibsons. The Tele is warmer and hotter (usually) than the Strat and cleaner/spankier than the Les Pauls, even the ones equipped with P-90s. That's a generalization, of course, and refers to the original iterations of those instruments and does not take into account later "innovations" like humbuckers on Teles nor mini humbuckers on Firebirds and Seventies Les Pauls. _Vive la difference!_ They all sound different. As they should. The real shame would be to live in a world where they all sounded the same. And if it sounds good it is good.
I think you are confusing EQ response with timbre. Eg. A Strad violin can play a Prefect A 440 note, a viola or violincello can also, yet they sound very different. This difference is hard to describe but is very audible. EQ is not the whole story. Magnet mixture (metals) also change the timbre of Pickups. The Pickup itself also resonates with certain frequencies and with dampening alert the sound. Just like different alloys of string have a different sound.
Only so deep I could go in 18m or so! Yeah, there's so many factors at play...I was using "EQ" more as a catch-all term for the sonic balance of the sound to explain the concept....there's a lot more that could be said!!
I have a Tele bridge PU in two guitars. One is a Duo Sonic and a second is a custom made Strat-ish like guitar that I designed. I have HB's in 8 others but both are equal and can handle the same job. Note my custom guitar was designed by Leo in '53 but never made. If you want I can send a pic.
Hi Joe, interesting video. Just to throw another iron into the fire, another good point of comparison would be the Seymour Duncan Tele Quarter Pounder - an actual 'Tele on steroids'. Also, perhaps we need to define what is meant by "on steroids"? I think it fair to say that the implication is to be derived from muscle building, in which case the punchy DiMarzio could be said to fit the bill - bigger, louder and thicker, which is definitely not what we imagine a PAF to be.
I tried to explain what the phrase meant to me, but there was only so far I could go without the video being an hour long :P I think it means 'sounding similar, but a touch more of everything' rather than being 'super beefed up' like a bodybuilder!
I think the top-tier PAFs are much of a muchness, to be honest - the best ones all have that going on. The top end of the uncovered Wizz' is probably a touch more Tele-like, but uncovered Monty's would have exactly the same thing going on. Subtle differences overall - and all are mega 🙂
@@JoePerkinsMusic Thanks for your further insights, very helpful ..yeah I think at a certain point it’s definitely about splitting hairs. Interestingly I currently have Wildwood spec underwound AIII custombuckers in my Wildwood R7...they are super tele on steroids to my ears, but I want to try a high quality unpotted set of PAFs that in fact are a touch more PAF-ish then tele-ish, but that still sound tele-ish with the volume rolled off a bit...oh the never ending madness :D! So, from what I’m hearing I am heavily leaning toward the Standard spec Monty’s...my next decision is covered or uncovered! I’m almost afraid that uncovered will be a tad too bright though... hmmm. Anyway your reviews have been absolutely the most helpful that I’ve found yet. The other set I was considering are the Doyle Coils Tru-Clones, but they are too pricey, and don’t seem to sound much better than the Monty’s. I may also go for Monty’s wiring harnesses as well, for the full Monty effect!
@@bcjaliu Personally I’d go for covered - can always remove them if you want more top. But can’t add them if you don’t have them :P So gives you the most options. I prefer the Monty’s covered 👍
the tele has the obvious BRASS saddles......the vintage Les Paul's also had BRASS saddles that were nickel plated riding on a pot metal nickel plated bridge body that was setting on BRASS nickel plated thumbwheels on BRASS nickel plated post that were deep seated into the mahogany of the body......so the whole unit should be very well solidly coupled to the body. THE Tele has the big stamped steel plate with the pickup mounted to it.....but that plate has A LOT of surface area contact with the body plus the string thru adding tension. THE Les Paul....has the BRASS of the bridge unit ...Plus the TAIL PIECE which is nickel plated ALUMINUM riding on nickel plated STEEL pins in STEEL body bushings that seat deep into the mahogany of the body. SO in materials.....they have quite a similar situation. It would be interesting to examine the actual mass of the complete Tele bridge unit less the pickup...AND...the mass of the Les Paul's tail piece pins and body bushings and then add the aluminum tail piece.....all for a reference point for comparison between the 2 guitars as there maybe a situation where the summation of the parts could be nearly equal in mass . BUT with your personal Les Paul, the HARDWARE is not exactly as vintage.....and that would have to be dealt with and corrected . There is where you might find a more level playing field. >>>
Great topic - enjoyed the video. I'm a Tele fan & sadly for me the PAF pickups sound a little muddy for my tastes. I always thought a Tele on steroids tone was the P90 pickup?
Thanks Joe! I can hear that PAF's are for sure more related to a Telly bridge pickup than a modern humbucker...but in my small experience, Firebird mini-humbuckers sound definitely much more like a Tele on steroids. By the way, would you like to compare a Tele bridge pickup mounted to the bridge with a Tele bridge pickup mounted directly to the body?
Sounds like a fun video! Though I'd want to do it with a vintage-spec unpotted (or lightly potted) pickup, as I think that makes all the difference to how much of 'the guitar' comes through. Definitely want to own a Firebird one day too!
I don’t think the two guitars are comparable, with regards to the stated cliche. They sound very different to me, and not in a way where one is simply more of the other I have a LP with modern burstbuckers in it, and my guitar is relatively dark sounding. I’d considered removing the pup covers but from what I read online doesn’t do all that much. Wondering now if comments were referring to removing covers from vintage pups or modern ones. I guess it couldn’t hurt to test out myself
I'd say removing the cover would make a fairly substantial difference to a Burstbucker...they're not known for being _hugely_ vintage correct. But that's just a guess!
The "tele on steroid" thing was coined by replica builders specially the one from Israel. Because they cannot produce a fat sounding PAF clone without getting muddy. Specially the one from Israel guy makes super light burst replicas even sometimes drilling cheese holes on his replica body. That produced a thin and tele like tone. I have tried 6 real bursts in California, non of them sounding like a tele on steroid thing. They all sound fat and warm!
i think it means very bright paf and or Over 500k pots, at least my experiments. Closest paf to real ones is thephens design hd paf. You can check him out here youtube if you don't know him already?
I know of Dave, and I'm sure his pickups are definitely amongst the best, but I'm not a fan of his 'pay in full up front and you'll maybe receive some pickups sometime in some years' policy. Too much risk for the price - plus, ThroBak, Wizz, Monty's, OX4, etc all deliver in a couple of weeks.
@@JoePerkinsMusic I agree with you it's too much a risk ordering from Dave Stephens. But I paid up full price a few months ago! Sometimes you'll just have to take the risk if you are searching for some of the best.
Great video again! I don't understand how your channel doesn't have more views...
The CZcams algorithm doesn’t like folks who aren’t clickbaity 🤷♂️
I like the way you produce another guitar from behind the camera the way you do Joe.
I imagine a Nigel Tufnell size collection just out of shot?
Hah - can you hear the sustain from here? ;-)
I put a set of Brandonwound PAF 59' clones in one of my Les Pauls, 7.6K neck, 8.2 bridge and 50's wiring. I have never heard humbuckers this bright. They are so much more useable than my set of Dimarzzio high output pickups that my other LP came with. They do remind me of my Tele just not as scooped, but I can go with that beefy Tele descriptor.
Brandonwound pickups are great sounding pickups and get you very close to that coveted 50s PAF Sound. Especially with the 50s wiring with good capacitors!
Awesome subject mate. I think a good starting point on this is Jimi Page , who played miracles with his Number One '59 LP so close to the wonderful madness of a Tele's bridge pick up. Indeed he recorded many tracks using a tele (the Dragon) or switching - sometimes in the same recording - Telecaster to Les Paul and vice-versa. Cheers & Peace!
Yep absolutely - Page's sound was always pretty bright, and he blurred the lines between Tele & Les Paul massively :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic Yes, and the T Top that went in circa April 1972 was possibly even more 'Tele on Steroids '...It was his 'Woody,' neck PAF that has NEVER been replicated by Gibson , Duncan etc...My pickups finally crack the code on my channel if you are a Page Tone Chaser.
His neck PAF had a higher DCR than the bridge but had an odd magnet..It was a very strange PAF.
@@bryanwilliams3665The Madison Square Garden tone? The bridge and neck pickups were swapped at that time.
He probably used several guitars per track on some albums?.I don't recall him saying it though. Possibly Physical Graffiti on? I don't have a source on info on that though.
Zep 1 was all Tele...Zep2 &3 was all Les Paul ( no Tele sounds there)
@@oldasrocks9121 No, a new bridge pickup went in April /May 1972..Neck Pickup stayed the same throughout Zeppelin.. BOTH pickups were changed by the 1990s by Seymour Duncan.
You could SWAP Neck and Bridge pickups over on a MODERN set so the approx 7.5k was in the bridge and the 8k+ was in the neck. In theory,this would get you closer to Pages set with the DCR being closer, but you'd still have the problem of the magnets being all wrong ..The DCR ( resistance) is not the most important thing.
Fantastic video Joe! I've been finding myself transitioning to lower output humbuckers for all the differences you pointed out. Less compressed and more clarity due to the extra high end content, which I tailor further with pot values. My fave magnets right now are alnico 4s and 5s. Great work my friend. Cheers!
Same journey I've been on :-) Thanks Johnny!
As an affordable alternative to the amazing boutique PAF replicas you've featured, ... to give you the tele on steroids sound: Dimarzio PAF 59.
Everyone complains that the Dimarzio PAF 59s are too treble-y, too open, too biting, and too low gain, with not enough mids, and that they're not wax potted so they're more microphonic...
...well yah, just like a real PAF,...and just like a tele on steroids.
I think with Seymour Duncan making their "PAFs" so compressed and dark sounding (no doubt to make the bedroom volume players with bright caps happy), many people don't know what an actual PAF, into a classic non-master volume amp, at proper stage volume, is supposed to sound like in real life.
Many people who only play at Maddison Square Bedroom volumes poo poo Dimarzio's PAF offerings, but at stage volumes the Dimarzio PAFs retain their clarity and dynamic/headroom (similar to a real PAF), whereas many Seymour Duncan PAF models turn to compressed, soggy, muddy, mush with little clarity and even less dynamic.
One isn't better or worse, just different applications. If you never leave your bedroom or turn your amp volume above 2, and you want to feel like a rock star, then Seymour Duncan has your number. But don't kid yourself that that's what a real, vintage PAF sounds like.
Generally speaking, once you get your tube amp master volume (power section) at or above about 40 or 50%, the EQ (not to mention sometimes clipping) of the power section comes into play, increasing the bass and fullness of your tone. That's where Dimarzio PAF 59s and similar boutique PAF clone designs come alive, with clarity, articulation, balance, and bite with beautiful bloom. As you goose up your power section to 70 or 80% with Dimarzio PAF 59s and other boutique PAF clones you enter a state of pure bliss. Power tube saturation, harmonics leaping off the fretboard like fire and lightening, clarity and articulation, with an attack and bloom to die for.
However, again, generally speaking, this is long, long after many Seymour Duncan "PAF" pickups have ceased to function as musical, which I've generally found starts to happen at about 40 or 50% of amp master volume. So, horses for courses. But again, don't kid yourself that many Seymour Duncan "PAF"s are anywhere close to an actual PAF at that point.
Obviously the affordable Dimarzio PAF59s don't hold a candle to a real PAF, or the expensive and accurate PAF copies, but for general tone, the Dimarzio PAF 59s are much closer than the Seymour Duncan PAF offerings, in my humble opinion and experience.
Sweeping generalizations, yes, but I don't have all day, so the standard YMMV disclaimer applies.
I dearly wish I’d never have sold the Les Paul that I put my ancient DiMarzio PAF in… 😩
@@BeesWaxMinder we've all sold stuff that we regret.....
@@steveturner6770 That certainly true!
I have two 59 PAF bridge models and those are pretty good modern pafs, yeah. Sounds more like some of those real cream white 59 les paul pickups but not completely like you said too.
I mean, like Joe Bonamassa says, the original PAF humbuckers were supposed to sound, and we're designed to sound, just like the p90s that preceded them, except these new fangled humbuckers were supposed to, you guessed it, buck the hum that you'd get from p90s.
As a resource (I have no affiliation whatsoever), Joe Bonamassa is featured in a GuitarMusicPro CZcams video published April 9, 2017, comparing a brown-top Les Paul Standard with p90s to an all original vintage 1959 Les Paul with PAFs. The difference is there, but it's pretty darn close.
Now, I'm not a Joe Bonamassa fan, couldn't name even one of his songs, but from what I understand, if anyone would know about real PAFs it would be him.
So if your "PAF" clone humbucker doesn't sound reasonably like a p90, then it's kind of missing the point.
Now, for those that don't know, a p90 is a single coil pickup, with lots of aggressive attack and a load of transients, a snap and bloom, a sparkle and a lot of treble content, with lots of air frequencies and a large dynamic range, and with a characteristic ragged grind to the tone,... and all of that is a bit thicker sounding than, say, a Strat bridge position single coil, ... so p90s are right in the same zone as a good Tele bridge pickup,... and as noted previously, per Joe Bonamassa, the original PAFs were designed to sound like the p90s that preceded them, ... So a good original or cloned PAF should also sound like a Tele bridge pickup, in a similar way that a good/original p90 does.
The best PAF-style pickup I have had was a set of Dave Stephens VL2s.... simply unreal! I compared it to a set of Seymour Duncan's Seth Lovers and the latter sounded like a joke. The VL2s had incredible clarity and warmth.
I'd like to try a set of Stephens Design PAFs, but the _pay-upfront-and-receive-pickups-in-some-years-maybe_ business model doesn't really work for me. I did consider going for them but he never replied to my emails to potentially order, so...I'm happy with my ThroBaks/Monty's/OX4/Wizz' :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic yes, I guess that the model is less than ideal. You have some really nice pickups there, btw... that's the main thing. These are only tools. Sadly, I had to sell my VL2 set but I still have my Stephens broadcaster pickup. Sounds great as well! Dark, midrangey and super dynamic
I disagree with the statement that original PAF sounds like a "Tele on steroids", even though when you played the Bailey it sounded close to the Tele. I would like to hear the Bailey and the Tele into a completely clean amp and hear if the gain has any influence in the end result.
To me, the real "Tele on steroids" is the Firebird, the guitar and the pickups. It has that Tele twang but thicker, with the classic tele sparkly highs.
Joe, maybe it's time to hunt down a Firebird?
Oh, I've been after a Firebird for ages! They're just rarely available in left hand - and, _very_ rarely come up used. Definitely on my hit-list!!
What i get from this is.... I'mma buy them wizz to put on my mira for dem tele sound.
Lovely pickups!!
Great video as always Joe! I cannot agree with you more about the Wizz pickups. Monty's were close second on my guitar.
Super demo and I agree about the Wizz clone pickups.
We also have to factor-
Less wind on individual magnets of the PAF humbucker than the tele, overall slightly more winds, a lot more MAGNET on the PAF, this chemistry of magnet alerts the resonance and electromagnetic response through the full spectrum available to the Pickup from the given set of strings and the tuning they are set at.
The position of the Pickup along the string also affects the eq node response / dampening. Like how different acoustic guitars sound different, it's usually the way the acoustic design is limiting resonance throughout the guitar.
The Dimarzio is limited to larger dynamics, that compression is not the Pickup though, it's your amps impedance mismatch to the Pickups. The amp input can't except the Pickup output, it's too strong. The Pickups aren't more compressed, in physics it is known as a closed energy Circuit - there is no way to alter the energy inside that circuit without altering the amount you put in via the DC current from and returning to the amp, therefore the changes in output and perceived compression are actually occurring in the input stage of the amplifier.
Double the wind doesn't mean double anything else, just like double the wattage isn't double the volume for an amplifier.
Us guitarists are far too simple (me too).
Well done!
Super interesting comparisons Joe. Thanks for a great vid!
after having had a few sets of pafs and pat's and having kept my favourites, I can say that the old ones definately seem to have that quality. Thinner, brighter (tele type bright), narrower sound than any replica I've played...and very transparent and accoustic in the top end...that last part, it's because they tend to be a bit more microphonic than most remakes...I think that's a big part of the sound. my set read 7.2 bridge, 7.7 neck. Anyhow, the Tele on steroids isn't inaccurate for the sound of an old one, or a new pickup that manages to capture that vibe...your Throbaks seems to do a great job there. also bare in mind a lot of guitars pafs are in these days, their centralabs often measure 700k or so...even more. they go up with use
This guitar has 700k Centralabs in it :-)
I used to hang out on some "tone-centric" bulletin boards like the Plexi Palace Forum and the Metro Amp Forum, and that phrase "Tele on steroids" was most often used to describe the sound of certain P-90s, as I recall. Which makes more sense to me, a Les Paul with a P-90 in the bridge can sound pretty similar to a Tele, but a bit hotter. But it's been quite a few years since I did a lot of forum-lurking; maybe the jargon has changed during the interim. I mean, I can remember when "access" was a noun and not a verb and when I was _very_ young, "gay" meant "happy" and "cheerful," not "homosexual."
Maybe what's driving all this is the tone of the Strat. To me, a Tele kind of sits tonally in the space between the Strat and the Gibsons. The Tele is warmer and hotter (usually) than the Strat and cleaner/spankier than the Les Pauls, even the ones equipped with P-90s. That's a generalization, of course, and refers to the original iterations of those instruments and does not take into account later "innovations" like humbuckers on Teles nor mini humbuckers on Firebirds and Seventies Les Pauls.
_Vive la difference!_ They all sound different. As they should. The real shame would be to live in a world where they all sounded the same. And if it sounds good it is good.
I think you are confusing EQ response with timbre.
Eg. A Strad violin can play a Prefect A 440 note, a viola or violincello can also, yet they sound very different. This difference is hard to describe but is very audible.
EQ is not the whole story.
Magnet mixture (metals) also change the timbre of Pickups. The Pickup itself also resonates with certain frequencies and with dampening alert the sound. Just like different alloys of string have a different sound.
Only so deep I could go in 18m or so! Yeah, there's so many factors at play...I was using "EQ" more as a catch-all term for the sonic balance of the sound to explain the concept....there's a lot more that could be said!!
I have a Tele bridge PU in two guitars. One is a Duo Sonic and a second is a custom made Strat-ish like guitar that I designed. I have HB's in 8 others but both are equal and can handle the same job.
Note my custom guitar was designed by Leo in '53 but never made. If you want I can send a pic.
Sounds interesting! I'm at jp@joeperkins.co.uk :-)
Hi Joe, interesting video. Just to throw another iron into the fire, another good point of comparison would be the Seymour Duncan Tele Quarter Pounder - an actual 'Tele on steroids'. Also, perhaps we need to define what is meant by "on steroids"? I think it fair to say that the implication is to be derived from muscle building, in which case the punchy DiMarzio could be said to fit the bill - bigger, louder and thicker, which is definitely not what we imagine a PAF to be.
I tried to explain what the phrase meant to me, but there was only so far I could go without the video being an hour long :P I think it means 'sounding similar, but a touch more of everything' rather than being 'super beefed up' like a bodybuilder!
Cool video! How ‘Tele on steroids’ do you think the Monty’s PAF bridge is? Less or more than the uncovered WIZZ?
I think the top-tier PAFs are much of a muchness, to be honest - the best ones all have that going on. The top end of the uncovered Wizz' is probably a touch more Tele-like, but uncovered Monty's would have exactly the same thing going on. Subtle differences overall - and all are mega 🙂
@@JoePerkinsMusic Thanks for your further insights, very helpful ..yeah I think at a certain point it’s definitely about splitting hairs. Interestingly I currently have Wildwood spec underwound AIII custombuckers in my Wildwood R7...they are super tele on steroids to my ears, but I want to try a high quality unpotted set of PAFs that in fact are a touch more PAF-ish then tele-ish, but that still sound tele-ish with the volume rolled off a bit...oh the never ending madness :D! So, from what I’m hearing I am heavily leaning toward the Standard spec Monty’s...my next decision is covered or uncovered! I’m almost afraid that uncovered will be a tad too bright though... hmmm. Anyway your reviews have been absolutely the most helpful that I’ve found yet. The other set I was considering are the Doyle Coils Tru-Clones, but they are too pricey, and don’t seem to sound much better than the Monty’s. I may also go for Monty’s wiring harnesses as well, for the full Monty effect!
@@bcjaliu Personally I’d go for covered - can always remove them if you want more top. But can’t add them if you don’t have them :P So gives you the most options. I prefer the Monty’s covered 👍
@@JoePerkinsMusic I like that advice. Many Thanks good Sir. Keep on keeping on, on 11! :P
the tele has the obvious BRASS saddles......the vintage Les Paul's also had BRASS saddles that were nickel plated riding on a pot metal nickel plated bridge body that was setting on BRASS nickel plated thumbwheels on BRASS nickel plated post that were deep seated into the mahogany of the body......so the whole unit should be very well solidly coupled to the body. THE Tele has the big stamped steel plate with the pickup mounted to it.....but that plate has A LOT of surface area contact with the body plus the string thru adding tension. THE Les Paul....has the BRASS of the bridge unit ...Plus the TAIL PIECE which is nickel plated ALUMINUM riding on nickel plated STEEL pins in STEEL body bushings that seat deep into the mahogany of the body. SO in materials.....they have quite a similar situation. It would be interesting to examine the actual mass of the complete Tele bridge unit less the pickup...AND...the mass of the Les Paul's tail piece pins and body bushings and then add the aluminum tail piece.....all for a reference point for comparison between the 2 guitars as there maybe a situation where the summation of the parts could be nearly equal in mass . BUT with your personal Les Paul, the HARDWARE is not exactly as vintage.....and that would have to be dealt with and corrected . There is where you might find a more level playing field. >>>
You rock kind sir!
Great topic - enjoyed the video. I'm a Tele fan & sadly for me the PAF pickups sound a little muddy for my tastes. I always thought a Tele on steroids tone was the P90 pickup?
It's a tag usually attached to PAFs, but I think a P90 would get fairly close too - albeit with a more strident midrange in most instances.
Thanks Joe! I can hear that PAF's are for sure more related to a Telly bridge pickup than a modern humbucker...but in my small experience, Firebird mini-humbuckers sound definitely much more like a Tele on steroids.
By the way, would you like to compare a Tele bridge pickup mounted to the bridge with a Tele bridge pickup mounted directly to the body?
Sounds like a fun video! Though I'd want to do it with a vintage-spec unpotted (or lightly potted) pickup, as I think that makes all the difference to how much of 'the guitar' comes through. Definitely want to own a Firebird one day too!
I don’t think the two guitars are comparable, with regards to the stated cliche. They sound very different to me, and not in a way where one is simply more of the other
I have a LP with modern burstbuckers in it, and my guitar is relatively dark sounding. I’d considered removing the pup covers but from what I read online doesn’t do all that much. Wondering now if comments were referring to removing covers from vintage pups or modern ones. I guess it couldn’t hurt to test out myself
Try lowering the pickups slightly and raising the pole pieces slightly. This is kind of a tried and true method for making humbuckers brighter.
I'd say removing the cover would make a fairly substantial difference to a Burstbucker...they're not known for being _hugely_ vintage correct. But that's just a guess!
Yo joe!
Hi Erik!
The "tele on steroid" thing was coined by replica builders specially the one from Israel. Because they cannot produce a fat sounding PAF clone without getting muddy. Specially the one from Israel guy makes super light burst replicas even sometimes drilling cheese holes on his replica body. That produced a thin and tele like tone. I have tried 6 real bursts in California, non of them sounding like a tele on steroid thing. They all sound fat and warm!
i think it means very bright paf and or Over 500k pots, at least my experiments. Closest paf to real ones is thephens design hd paf. You can check him out here youtube if you don't know him already?
I know of Dave, and I'm sure his pickups are definitely amongst the best, but I'm not a fan of his 'pay in full up front and you'll maybe receive some pickups sometime in some years' policy. Too much risk for the price - plus, ThroBak, Wizz, Monty's, OX4, etc all deliver in a couple of weeks.
@@JoePerkinsMusic That's true, yeah. But he is just one old man with many orders so he's busy :)
@@kuitaristi3003 True - though he could take a deposit and then pay in full upon dispatch…that’d make me more comfortable.
@@JoePerkinsMusic I agree with you it's too much a risk ordering from Dave Stephens. But I paid up full price a few months ago! Sometimes you'll just have to take the risk if you are searching for some of the best.