First Look! Wharfedale Super Denton: A Smaller Linton?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Buy the Wharfedale Super Denton:
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro / Compared to Linton 85
3:34 - Subjective
10:48 - Objective
17:03 - Summary
____________________
All of my tests are conducted using KLIPPEL Hardware and Software. KLIPPEL is an innovative leader in providing unique test equipment for electro-acoustical transducers and audio systems. Founded in 1997 by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel, the novel techniques developed for control and measurement systems of loudspeakers and other transducers are the result of over 30 years of fundamental research. This provides more accurate physical models of loudspeakers, micro-speakers and headphones valid for both small and large amplitudes. The focus is on revealing the root causes of signal distortion and defects and giving practical indications for improvements in design and manufacturing of audio products. For information on KLIPPEL products, please visit their site below:
www.klippel.de/company/about-u... - Věda a technologie
Erin, you nailed the reason for the design of the Super Denton - it is directly aimed at someone who wants the character and musicality of Linton but doesn't have room for a large speaker. Like Linton, Super Denton will play any genre of music and will draw you into the music and give you that emotional connection with the performance which is the key to enjoyable listening.
Of course Super Denton is ideal for smaller rooms and Erin is right, put them 1- 2 feet (30-60cm) or so from the front wall and you'll achieve the target bass performance which will extend powerfully to 40Hz. It will also fill in the midrange a little and achieve the most balanced performance.
Obviously it was a challenge designing such a small 3-way speaker, especially with the offset midrange and treble unit arrangement. However, this looks worse in Erin's tests than it is in practice because once you're 1.5 metres/5 feet away from the speakers the output of all the drivers blends very well, even if you're listening off-axis.
Thank you, Erin, for such an informative appraisal of the Super Denton and I'm glad you had fun listening to them.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and share your insight into this design! Really awesome to hear back from you. 🙂
This is how designers should respond to a review of their speakers!! Unlike some others......
I would put those speakers on my short list due to Erin's review for sure. I'm intrigued by compact 3 ways as an alternative to a 2 way stand mount.
So wait!? You're not going to sue him?😮
Sorry had to. 😊
Love your speakers Peter. You're a legend! ✌️
Keep it up Erin. Ill likely never own the stuff but i like watching and learning.
Thanks, bro! I appreciate the support!
First one to review the Super Denton. I trust your reviews. Thanks Erin. 👍🏼
LMAO "The feet"
Yeah, he went “there” lol good on him.
😅 LOL! Subliminal reflux. 😁👍
You could say these speakers are not for you if you have a feet fetish
Watched for the content; scrolled for this comment.
🥴
Thanks! Your reviews help a lot. Not just me as a consumer, but I think the whole industry has to respond to thoughtful independent reviews like yours.
Thanks for watching!
I got the Lintons with the stands and I’m happy with them. The fit and finish is fantastic as is the sound.
Been curious about these speakers, glad to see the science based YT channel reviewed them.
Can’t wait for the Dovedale review!
Man, I've been trying hard to get those in for review.
Hey, 100% agreed!! 😊👍
@ErinsAudioCorner I hope it comes your way soon! 😁👍
Hard agree.😀
@@ErinsAudioCorner well, fingers crossed that you succeed! Sounds like there’s some interest for sure. Keep up the good work!
Reviews getting better and better. Bravo and also Thanks Mike!!!
Thank you. I like that your back in the saddle.
Thanks! Me too!
Thanks Erin, thanks Mike!)
I would really like to see the test Wharfedale Evo4.2!
Yes Erin we all love feet less no holes speakers.😂
Wow that's never going to end , that guy buried himself
One of the best crossover design ever was the vintage Dahlquist DQ10 which corrects many peaks and incredibly when there were no spectrum analyzers available
Thanks Mike...and thank Erin.
Great review.
Interesting off axis response.
Thank you!
Thanks Mike
Thanks Mike!
I believe you are exactly right with why you noticed cancelation I could see right away that they would have issues . I don't know why they would design a speaker with the tweeter, mid alignment. That's why you see modern designs with the mid and tweeter as close as possible depending on the size of the mid and the crossover point also the mid and tweeter aligned over each other vertical would cause less combing effects . I would like to see what components they are using for the crossover.
So would I
I just ordered a pair - in no small part assisted by your excellent review. Thank you. I am in Australia and have Lintons my living room (love them) and am interested in a similar sound in my study, a smaller room. Always a bit of a punt with new speakers of course and I cannot easily audition them in Western Australia where I am. I'd be 'replacing' Elac DBR62s. What I expect I'll do is have both and interchange them from time to time for that somewhat different sound. I'm likely to run a SVS sb1000 subwoofer with the Dentons, but I'll see how they go with and without. Peter's comment on your review helped a lot too. Underscored your findings I suppose and fitted my use case.
Glad to see this review on the baby Lintons. I think they look fantastic and if I were building a small room retro vinyl setup, these would be near the top of my list with a NAD 3050, Yamaha or Leak amp.
Great comparison! The Lintons look like a clear winner on measurements. What's interesting is that probably the regular Denton is better than the Super Dentons and cheaper at the same time!
Awesome shirt.
Thanks, Mike!
Excellent review. I hope you keep mentioning cabinet feet in every speaker review. 😎😂
Love the shirt!
Great review
That dome midrange looks bigger than 2, maybe 2.5, the 2.5 khz dip I can bet could be fixed adding another capacitor on the tweeter so if the tweeter has 2 order crossover then put 3 order and that retards the signal putting them on phase, a choke LCR on the 650 hz is needed to avoid coloration
Thanks Erin
The little speaker has a Denton the frequency response
As always, great review. For "critical listening" leave the grills on. Didnt expect that. 😀
Yeah, true so far with all their line of heritage speakers. Don't mind it, though. 😊👍
Erin, I really like your reviews and I have a lot of trust in your comments. There is perhaps one thing that I would like to see in your future comments that I think might better complete your reviews for some of your viewers. Here's my main point: Some speakers have a linear response but do not sound very convincingly or they are not very transparent due to poor design in the crossover or poor drivers. I would appreciate if you could at times make comments regarding the tone of the speaker (example is the female voice well reproduced) or, how is attack of the notes and the decay? Is the bass bloated or tight? Thanks
These are definitely nice speakers. Hard to complain for most living rooms at safe listening levels.
This review really resonated with me.😂
Thanks!
Oh, cool! Thanks!
I’ve had the Linton’s for a couple of years and love them. I have to move to a smaller place soon and have been looking at the Super Denton. Thanks for helping with the decision Erin!
Hi Erin, thanks for the great work for measurements and for sharing them. The database of measurements you are building is really helpful.
I got a small piece of advice if you don't mind. I think you could try to set the scale of the graphs to be the same, so it will be easier for readers or even yourself to make direct comparison. (For example the CEA2034 on Linton was 40-90 dB, and its 45-95 dB on Super Denton.)
Thank you again!
Hey Erin! As an audio newbie, I've absorbed so much information over the past several weeks. I've checked out other channels (Guttenburg, cheapaudioman, Robinson, Just Audio etc.) and while I find value in varied interpretations and observations, I appreciate your work the most. Your dedication to explaining data has helped me become a more informed consumer and tech hobbyist. Please get your hands on the Mission 700s, I'm tempted to pull the trigger on them. I'd love to see what the data shows and what you think of them (worthy contender to Sourcepoint 8?). BTW, you've gained 1 more subscriber.
I've sent an email about those but I don't think I ever got a reply.
@Erin, would you please compare the Super Denton vs. The Galion TS TL speakers? Thank you!
Erin. Unrelated. But kinda related. I agonized for two months selecting a new speaker as I move my Paradigm Prestige 15b to a third system I am putting together. Seriously thought about the Super Denton (Linton as well but the Denton would not fit in my bedroom listening space. Height of the stands would not clear the bed I listen across from).
Anyway based on your review bough KEF R3 Meta. Arrived April 1st. Absolutely LOVE them!!!
I have them toed in maybe 5 degrees. Very occasionally the highs (treble) can sound a little harsh. What would you suggest to tame the treble a little bit?
Hey, that's good to hear that kind of feedback!! Thanks!
Outstanding as always Erin and "Thank you Mike!" I'm a Wharfedale fan but I live in a condo so the Linton's are not in consideration and when I saw these new Super Denton's I was intrigued. I'm looking to replace my OG Paradigm Studio Reference 20's with a three way bookshelf and the Super Denton's made my short list. It's always nice to see your results and listen to your opinion. Especially on a speaker I'm considering purchasing. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Would you correct this speaker with PEQ? Or would you correct the room plus speaker at the listening position?
Looks kinda perfect to me (don't mind the minor midrange dip) but the Denton 85 seems to go a little deeper.
Given the asymmetric design of the drivers, where should the tweeter be located inwards or outwards in other words which one is the left and which one is the right speaker? Does it make a difference if you swap them around?
It doesn't make as big a difference as you might think but you can try them either way round and see which you prefer. A lot depends on how close the speakers are to the side walls, so your preferred configuration will depend on your room and positioning.
@@petercomeau2190 I don’t believe it. The designer of the speakers replied!
Thank you Mr Comeau! Congratulations for all your accomplishments and recent designs, you have taken Wharfedale to another level.
Cool speakers !!!!
What is the correct way to set them up? Tweeter in mid woofer out, or vice versa? Does it make a difference in measurements/ subjective listening? Would you choose these over the elac ubr62 you also reviewed?
Either way is adequate. I did contact the designer after my review to verify the correct axis at the tweeter. I believe he will reply to this video with his designer notes and might address this question if he sees it.
It doesn't make as big a difference as you might think but you can try them either way round and see which you prefer. A lot depends on how close the speakers are to the side walls, so your preferred configuration will depend on your room and positioning.
See!? There ya' go! :D
@@petercomeau2190 meaning if they're close to the side walls, it's better to use them with the tweeters facing in?
I watch every one of your videos, even for products I have no interest in. I can't thank you enough for the work you do. If you were building a pair of three-way speakers, and needed a woofer/subwoofer that covers 25hz (in-room) to 300hz, and can hit 105db in-room, and neither size nor cost was a factor, which one(s) would you put on a short list to choose from?
Hmmmm.... what would be your budget? Because without that I'm gonna say the KEF Blade 2 Meta. But they're $28k/pair. LOL
I've actually ordered a pair of the new MoFi SourcePoint 888's after hearing them at AXPONA and already being familiar with the SP8. Basically these are a SP8 with extra extension. They are not due out until June, though.
@@ErinsAudioCorner They should make a center speaker with the same dimension, but with the coax in the middle.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I was talking about DIYing a pair of speakers, but those would be great options if I were buying a pair.
bring it!!
I don't know why the offset the mid and tweeter like that. I would think it would cause phase and timing problems
@ErinsAudioCorner Hi, Any chance that you can test some ATC speakers? Thanks
Good review as always, something that I cant understand is how the estimated In-Room response is quite good when the horizontal dispersion is asymmetrical and really uneven, I always though that the dispersion control played a important role in the estimated room response
It does. On my website I provide the following CTA-2034 excerpt:
"In theory, with complete 360-degree anechoic data on a loudspeaker and sufficient acoustical and geometrical data on the listening room and its layout it would be possible to estimate with good precision what would be measured by an omnidirectional microphone located in the listening area of that room. By making some simplifying assumptions about the listening space, the data set described above permits a usefully accurate preview of how a given loudspeaker might perform in a typical domestic listening room. Obviously, there are no guarantees, because individual rooms can be acoustically aberrant. Sometimes rooms are excessively reflective (“live”) as happens in certain hot, humid climates, with certain styles of interior décor and in under-furnished rooms. Sometimes rooms are excessively “dead” as in other styles of décor and in some custom home theaters where acoustical treatment has been used excessively. This form of post processing is offered only as an estimate of what might happen in a domestic living space with carpet on the floor and a “normal” amount of seating, drapes and cabinetry.
For these limited circumstances it has been found that a usefully accurate Predicted In-Room (PIR) amplitude response, also known as a “room curve” is obtained by a weighted average consisting of 12 % listening window, 44 % early reflections and 44 % sound power. At very high frequencies errors can creep in because of excessive absorption, microphone directivity, and room geometry. These discrepancies are not considered to be of great importance."
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the explanation, I hope this doesnt sounds dumb but it would be correct to say that the In-Room response is for someone that has a big room with light acoustic treatment?
Any chance that you could review the Vandersteen 1Ci at some point? $1799~ with stands.
What has been glaringly obvious for maybe a century, which also is very prevalent here, is that people who want smaller speakers have
to make compromises; and honestly, with the difference between these two sets of speakers in terms of size and performance, it doesn't make sense to save those few dollars, since the prices are closer together
than their performance; maybe if you have a decent sub system to employ, and prefer that type setup preference, but the Super Denton should probably be cheaper anyway. I'd go with the Linton 85 any day between these two, whether I was using subs or not. To each his own I guess.
I'd be interested in a review where you take a look at a speaker that is known for measuring a bit choppy but is still beloved, like Ohm or Zu Audio. That would seem to be tailor made for your subjective / objective format.
Thanks for this review Erin. I've got a request. SVS is coming out with their new speaker line as you already know. That means that their existing lineup is on clearance as of late. Could you please review a pair of SVS PRIME PINNACLE speakers that they have been making for a few years now. I've got my eye on these and I'd like to know what you find and think about the Pinnacles before I possibly scoop up a pair. Thanks.
I got word today that a pair is being shipped to me this week. :)
@@ErinsAudioCorner Can't wait for the review. Thank you sir.
I wonder how this compares to the Denton 80th (only because I’ve heard it and have a frame of reference)
The funny thing? I picked up the Klispch RP600MIIs for $399 last year. They aren't perfect by ANY definition but compared to these speakers costing 3 within times as much? Hum... Great information as always! Wish you could test some of those way more expensive bookshelf speakers... Maybe some day! Keep it up!
He has a review of the RP600MK2 on his channel just add the speaker name to his name in the CZcams search function
Thanks Mike!
Thank you too Erin!
FU feet resonance guy!
I know you review the homepod minis, but if I send you my pair of homepod 2s, would you measure/review them?
I've had a lot of (cheap) speakers and at low volume (60dB according to an app on my phone), they sound better than any combination of amplifier and speaker that I have tried. I've seen other reviewers say they are terrible, so I'm wondering if I just prefer something that is not the "reference" but don't have the equipment to know.
I’d be interested as well.
Hi my friend How does it compare to the Denton 85th ? does it justify its higher asking price ? [700e vs 1150e] Thanks in advance ,greetings from Athens ,GREECE
I like dome mid rangers. What are pity the driver's aren't mounted vertically.
Can you please explain the whole Opamp issue?
I kind of expected this, both what the measurement show, and how well disguised the lateral dispersion issues was in your listening. Not designed by an amateur after all. But still, can't not think what would happen if they managed to get the domes on a vertical line. Box half an inch taller? Offset woofer by a fraction to one side and the domes to the other? I don't think I could have listened to them vith the grilles off. Sounding better grilles on is one thing, looking like they sound better another....
🙂
Oh boy. The off axis response from side to side is a mess...Are you sure you had the feet screwed all the way in? ;-)
Oh snap
Erin, because the tweeters are offset, and there's a dropoff in horizontal dispersion (assumed to be on the edge furthest from the tweeter), the tweeters should be on the inside to minimize side wall reflections in addition to a little less fraction effect for the centered listener.
The designer of the Speakers commented about that and said that it doesn’t really make a difference either way. You can find his response somewhere in all of these.
Erin, as you know, ALL things make a difference, especially in practice. if you were to do a polar plot (as was done decades ago in some magazines like AUDIO Magazine which had some true audio luminaries on staff such as Bacom King, who reviewed amplifiers for them) you might get a better picture. the whole idea of offsetting the tweeters was to reduce diffraction on one side. mirror imaging became commonplace when and aftermarket modifier did so to the Dahlquist DQ10 phased array loudspeakers. imaging and soundfield reproduction became a major focus of designers and reviewers following that innovation. even JBL mirrors their designs now such as in the new version of the L100, the origin of which was NOT.
Noted Peter's comment about it not mattering all that much - that said I just got a pair of Super Dentons and the manual for the speakers suggests that tweeters should be on the inside. For what it is worth.
why make it a 3 way?
could they not make it sound better if they focused on a 2 way instead?
i do like a dome midrange but at that price point it seem like a to large of a compromise.
i guess they can make any type of speaker they want. it sure looks a certain way.
I like Wharfdale product, but i think they are putting to many speakers in a close price point.
You only need to buy 1 pair. Relax and enjoy.
I love the diagram of the dimensions of your room something I wish more audio reviewers did.👍
एल्गोरिदम (Algorithm in Nepali... not an insult towards Tek... (clunk))
Thanks to Mike for lending the speaker!
Speakers "Up The Kazoo" out there. I'm not crazy about Soft Dome Tweeters., prefer the Brightness of the Klipsch Titanium HORN...OVER the Foil, Cloth, Silk etc designs. WHEN I HEAR THE C8 ON A CONCERT PIANO, I KNOW WHAT IT IS "MY EARS" WANT TO HEAR.
Are these a mirrored pair?
If so; Does swapping left and right make much difference?
FFB
I would hope they are ....that certainly should have got a mention.
@@meutubedou
Thank you ... but that doesn't answer the question.
@@meutubedou
The question is... "Are the *Super Dentons* a mirrored pair?"
If you asked me a question about roses and I responded by telling you about my tulips ... have I answered your question?
Dovedale next..? Linton > Super Linton, especially since it's only a $100 difference or so.
by the way Erin, someone locally was telling me that he noticed online that there are speaker or audio reviewers on YT that do purely subjective reviews that have basically been trashing the idea of using data to help with the evaluation of a speaker set.. I won't mention any names, but you probably know what I'm talking about. Sounded to me like someone trying to desperately justify their lack of technical prowess, from what I heard about it. 😉
Of course they are. And if you ask those guys how to measure something objectively they couldn't tell you the first step to get accurate data. It's always the know-nothings that have something to say. As with anything in life, unfortunately. And it's not what you know... it's how loud you say it. Sigh.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
yep!👍
Great review, I've got a dumb question, what's considered a small room or large room. With all the different floor plans or basement man caves, just curious on options of certain square footages. My man cave is around 500 square feet. It's feels smallish to me.
There's a breakdown according to THX specs which I typically reference when talking about sizes. It may not be the "best" definition for everyone but it's a baseline for comparison which is better than nothin'.
www.thx.com/product/thx-certified-loudspeakers/
@@ErinsAudioCorner cool! Thank you.
Hi Erin,
I would like to buy Wharfedale Linton 85 for play my music list from PlexAMP. Can you suggest me which would be best combination with Linton? I mean audio streamer or amplifier or audio streamer? Also there is AB classes and D. It’s so much information and I prefer to ask professional opinion. Budget 2000-3000$ if is possible and less I would be happy.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Honestly, I'd get the NAD C 3050 with BluOS. I reviewed it here and loved it. Plus, it's a great aesthetic match to the Linton AND it comes with Dirac Live which will allow you to clean up the mess the room makes below 500Hz.
Link to video: czcams.com/video/8gQB21TuFrI/video.html
Link to product (if you want to buy it through my affiliate link): howl.me/cleOavykNAx
@@ErinsAudioCorner thank you so much 👍🏻, you are the best🙂
Try out the recent Yamaha range too. Fabulous A/B Power, room EQ is quite good and extremly reliable. Try anything up to the R-N2000A. The internal streamer and MUSICAST App is very easy to setup. I play mostly vinyl.
@@gdwlaw5549 thank you 🙏🏻
Yes get the NAD
I get the whole “ retro “ thing some manufacturers are heading down, albeit showing a lack of progress and playing on nostalgia, but doesn’t recessing the front baffle and all those super sharp edges cause edge defraction and affect performance? Modern speakers avoid this where ever possible, it wasn’t a thing back in the 70’s when a lot of these brands were dominant but has been for decades now. Anyway who knows, if it sounds good it sounds good I guess.and then there’s the price target which means squared off edgy boxes are the only affordable option.
That is why they are designed with the grilles fitted. The grille is shaped and chamfered to smooth the response.
I expect this imo, someone tried selling me a pair a while back and i wasnt too interested.
Basically Speaker for a smaller room compared to Lintons. Btw first 60fps movie i guess.
Nah, same settings as all others. Unless the iphone video of the speakers somehow changed things without me realizing it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Every other video that i recently watched on your chanel was 1080p but this one is 1080p60 thats why i noticed.
@@DemoRaferGames interesting. Well, it wasn't intentional. Not sure how it is different unless the iPhone video of the speakers caused it.
The video dont look like it was shot in 60 fps but it seems that it has a bigger file size at 1080p (298 mb) in comparison to his last 2 videos (130-150 mb)
Edit: The part when he moves the cursor mouse is in 60 fps
11:20 Good lord, why can't these companies get flatter impedance and phase curves? Those are atrocious.
Denton has more dents in characteristic than Linton, that is probably why they chose the name Denton. 😁
only true if there’s lots of lint on the lintons
Man theyre really like $140 cheaper in europe, $1260 instead of $1400.
Did you say..... ABX?!?!? HA.... Cheers borther. Great run down. :)
Did you try swapping them around having the tweeter on the inside and not the outside and vice versa and if so which did you prefer?
Usually singers are good for especially women noticing bumps in the response you said 700 hertz but these days everything is pitch corrected at 440 hertz so it's difficult really and it sounds awful should stop doing it Studios they don't any more listen to music they just look at charts
Is it my audio chain, or are you a little stuffed up? Spring allergies?
Allergies.
@@ErinsAudioCorner plus one point for my fidelity. Minus one point for your sinus cavities.
Great again. Why don't you show a spectral decay like Danny does - and show how your measures correlate with the spectral decay.
Because the CEA2034 shows it more readily and reliably. CSD can easily be manipulated to show just about whatever you want. And most people have zero idea how to set up the "floor" or the rise time (or other settings). I can look right at the CEA2034 and see resonances clearly that way.
@@ErinsAudioCorner thanks. Can you cover that with examples some time and maybe do a tech talk to cover some of the basics? Appreciated
that danny fella is a hoax of a person just keep mind.
Check out this playlist:
Understanding the Measurements
czcams.com/play/PLnIxFR_ey0b37Ex4KV2mBz-kYB7QLffR1.html
Maybe there was some resonance from the grill.
You can see it there with the grille off measurement.
@@ErinsAudioCorner It was joke about manufacturers are trying to explain away resonances.
Nice job . Wuf. 🐻
Thanks Mike!
Thanks Mike
Thanks!
Oh, wow! Thank you!
Interesting that Wharfedale keeps bringing out speakers with so called updated versions of old speakers.
Firstly, the Denton (and Linton) were both 2-way designs and VERY budget speakers. They were also basically the same thing, the Linton simply being in a larger box. I remember them being a popular sound but not very accurate. In fact, many peoples first jump into HiFi. I sold hundreds of them.
The current version, I think it would probably be a better 2-way design. Three very similar sized drivers do not really make sense. Every time you add another driver, it becomes harder to integrate the separate drivers. Crossover becomes more complex. Driver placement is a compromise due to cabinet size.
If I was designing the Denton, I would have used just 2 drivers. Like the original.
Talking of original, the current company has nothing at all in common with Wharfedale. Not the staff, location, anything. Just the name. I might suggest the current speakers are probably better than the original. The original Wharfedale tweeters were quite poor really. They were the only speakers that we stocked replacement units for in the shop.