You really are a quality reviewer. Having that measurement set up is something that puts you over the top. Clips always skimps on the cabinet thickness, bracing insulation, etc. Love you reviews.
For what Klipsch charges for the Heritage series, they could afford to brace the cabinet and add absorptive material. Their cabinets really resonate and make them sound "boxy."
I traded my lintons in for heresy ivs and never been happier. Theyre setup in a 10x10 room so theres enough bass and i prefer the detail i get from the heresys compared to the lintons. Its best to always listen to speakers for yourself instead of just relying on someone elses review. With that said... i agree that the lintons are the best value in hifi. Great speakers that dont get anything wrong.
@@lakeoffrost4069 I totally agree, when listening to music the Heresy IV give me much more joy than the Linton, and for dialogue in film or series its on another level.
@@eirik5570 yep! I stil had the lintons for a bit after i got the heresys and when i listened to em before i sold em they sounded like there was a banket over em compared to the heresys.
Apply some parametric EQ and shelf EQ where it makes sense and fix any inbalance! We need more Klippel Analysis like yours , big thanks for your work! Klippel is the game changer in audio!
This was a good subject for a video Erin. I have the Lintons and have enjoyed them for several years. But I’ve always yearned for what I was missing in the more expensive Heresies. I trust your take, and your conclusion supports my retro-box decision. Thanks for keeping it real in this hobby. I sincerely hope that with your growing viewership, you don’t sell-out for personal financial gain. The typical slick-edit CZcamsr persona seems to infect otherwise well-meaning creators once they start making money. Then they want more. 🙏 that you stay the way you are!
Nailed it!! Klipsch REF RM 600 suffers the same internal resonance. I am seriously considering the Australian brand you mentioned to me or having Klaus Bunge build me a pair of Odyssey Loreleis. Thank-you for a very realistic review. You have a subscriber for life here.
I'd love for you to do a true retro shootout featuring speakers from the 70s. Vintage infinity, vintage A/D/S, Beovox ect... It would be great because I trust your ears.
@joegreer9584 I think it would be interesting, too, but mostly just to see how all of those speakers compared to the modern offerings from the same companies. Unfortunately, the degradation of the drivers themselves (foam surrounds and paper cones & domes that have become brittle from long term exposure to UV, Ozone, and/or humidity, etc.), along with the likely degradation of some of the cheap components used in their crossovers (capacitors especiallhy), means that they will most definitely Sound AND Measure much differently now than they did when new. :( So, in that regard, there isn't really much definitive or meaningful data to gain from such an endeavor. We'll just have to appreciate our time and experience with them and the nostalgia they evoke.
Exactly, better yet, put some old polks, timeframes, Snell, kappa 8 or 9, old JBL L100 etc. or big ads models against some of the new kids on the block, that would be awesome and I don't understand why the top reviewers haven't done that already.
Thanks for the awesome comparison. I’d have a hard time justifying almost double the price of the Lintons for the MoFi, but At 2000$ vs 1500$, they become compelling though. I think 2000$ would pretty much be my cap for what I’d be willing to spend on speakers, even if the economy wasn’t kicking my ass right now, so comparisons in this range are perfect for me. Thumbs up dude!
Another great video, Erin. Good stuff. I still think there’s nobody close to you in terms of data and measurements along with great explanations. On a side note, are either the Philharmonic Audio BMR Tower or HT Tower on your list to review?
Hi, love you videos. The objective data on speakers is crucial to understand what is happening. It might be a bit of a hassle but maybe you could occasionally compare the Klippel measurements to in room measurements showing how much the room can interfere. Indicate your room Schroeder frequency etc. I know that this isn't an acoustics channel yet seeing the room effect compared to the near-field can really put things in perspective.
I’ve extensively listened to the different Klipsch heritage - a lot of them in my house. Bottom line is that I agree with you. I liked the Forte and especially the Chorus II, with EQ, with group delay correction. They all slow down around 200Hz making the warmth sound reduced. Then, on axis, great. Off axis, terrible. Really fun speaker to test, however. I am currently using Klipsch KSP-300’s and they are better overall. I really like the KSP-C6 center as well. With my huge sub it makes a consistent setup wherever you sit or walk around or stand.
Enjoyed the video mate. Thanks from Australia. I know probably a little on the expensive side, but wondering if you could review the Wharfdale Dovedale vs the Sourcepoint 888 sometime in the future. Cheers
Erin. I wish I had made more previous purchases based on your reviews than some "higher followed" reviewers. From Neumi over SCSS5 to others comparisons, I always seem to agree with your takes. Love my Linton's, the Mofi must be really good.
As always great video, you are quickly becoming the premier CZcams reviewer. I would love to see a redo of the source point 10 with the treble knocked down a bit to match the tone of the source point 8. But give us a source point 12” lol. I like them big…
@@ErinsAudioCorner I generally do too. But for these I for some reason think this fits and people who already have the 8s could upgrade to the new subwoofer/stands later.
The other day I auditioned the Klipsch Heritage Forte IV and Cornwall IV in a large room with a high ceiling (they had Heresy too but I didn't listen to them). All the other reviews of the Forte say it is the sweet spot and how good it was, but even though I think my left ear had some eustachian tube blockage, the Forte IV sounded as you described; vocals, especially female vocals, sounded hollow and fuzzy. The Cornwall was much more natural sounding but I'm not sure I could really tell how good it was in those circumstances. The dealer also had very expensive Audio Note UK two-way speakers in another room, but I didn't hear anything special from them, maybe because of my hearing issue or else all that pure silver circuitry is a gimmick. By the way all their amplifiers were tube amplifiers, and very expensive ones in the room with the Audio Note UK speakers.
Very good comparaison! Do you ever feel different texture of the sound due to the material use? Ex: paper woofer vs Kevlar , soft dome versus aluminium etc…
I can’t say I’ve ever experienced a texture of sound that I would directly attribute to the material. That’s because I’d attribute it to an issue in the response that is caused by poor driver and crossover pairing.
Great video Erin. I really like this comparison format where people can then go to the full review for more detail. How do you explain the love for the Heresy IV in the audiophile community? Is a case of people inventing pseudo positives from what is clearly a flawed, almost broken, design? The whole “musicality” thing comes into play no doubt.
Not Erin, but I think the new Heresy IV are just big and "look the part", and also probably sound a lot like many of the vintage speakers that we all remember from our youth that "just got really loud" quite quickly and easily when we cranked them up due to their high sensitivity. IME, for a lot of folks, if we can "crank them up and just rock out" with our favorite music, then we are happy and amazed for the most part. 😛 When we listen to ANY speakers or system, as long as we can hear at least SOME pleasing aspect of the song that stands out clearly...like, just the vocals, or just the drums, or just the electric guitars, or just the bass, or just the tambourine, horns...or WHATEVER...we seem to just latch onto that in particular and enjoy that "awesome" part of the song, even if other aspects are lost, buried, or not as prominent. Our minds are extremely good at "filling in" the missing information, especially with music that we've heard 1000 times. ;) We've probably all heard reviewers say "when listening to this particular song, I could really hear the incredible detail of the _______ (instrument)", etcetera, and they might praise the speakers as being a top choice just for that ONE thing that they heard that stood out to them, while forgetting about everything else because...they KNOW the track extremely well and their mind was able to "fill in" the rest. As a musician who has also had a home recording studio for many years, for most folks, my experience is that unless you can demonstrate the (sometimes huge) differences between two different speakers side-by-side in a direct comparison, they just don't have any established or immediate Reference Point, and their ears and mind simply adjust and enjoy whatever prominent instrument or vocal "stands out" most when listening to any given speaker....that is, as long as something doesn't sound completely or obviously wrong. I say this because, using the same high quality and neutral studio monitors, most listener's jaws will drop at how vastly different the sound and their experience can be when switching between a really good well-balanced MIX that has smooth & even spectral balance + a well-defined soundstage & imaging, VERSUS hearing a very rough initial mix where few if any EQ or other corrections and adjustments have been made. BUT they had already really liked even that initial rough mix when they first heard it, and they didn't notice anything "wrong" with it per se. But the final mix was a NIGHT & DAY difference. :P IOW...they didn't initially care or realize what "bad" speakers (i.e. a bad mix) sound like until they heard the same music properly mixed and EQ'd to where it actually sounds really good...like hearing a completely different set of speakers and just not knowing what you were missing beforehand. I've even had someone say "man, that already sounds really good" while I was listening to a track in MONO to check for phase issues, and nodded "Yep, Thanks", while I then casually switched it back to STEREO, and they're like..."WHOA!!!...What did you just do?!?! That's Amazing!" LOL :-P In short, we can usually pick out things we like about almost any speaker. And unless there is an obvious shortcoming or glaring issue, we don't always care or notice any underlying problems all that much. We might only notice an issue when listening to a particular track that we love and have heard 1000 times without hearing that particular issue before. And then there is good ol' Confirmation and Expectation Bias. IOW we judge and hear what we WANT to hear based on a speaker's looks/aesthetics, brand prestige or personal preference (Cerwin-Vega = Bad/JBL = Good), how many or how big the drivers are, etcetera, etc. See: "Audio Musings by Sean Olive - The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests" (sean.olive.blogspot.2009.04) ...just my experience FWIW.
Just an idea. A fun review would be on the iLoud Micro Monitors. Little computer speakers with solid bass down to 50Hz that can fit in the palm of your hand. They always put a smile on my face and would love to see measurements and your subjective thoughts.
I know you can't do all of them, but sure wish you could do the JBL L100 Classic, either the one from a few years ago or the new MK. II version. Most reviews of either one have been favorable, but I'd sure like to see some real-world data on it before pulling out the credit card. Your review of (and this video) including the Klipsch Forte IV made me glad I didn't buy that one, but have held off so far on finding my "end game" speaker.
I have asked. I think they were going to send me a pair but I haven’t heard back in about a month. I followed up last night. I typically recommend that if people wanna see me review something, then they send an email to manufacturers as well if they know paying customers won’t buy without a review from myself or others then they are more likely to send it out. Alternatively, if you want, you could buy it from Crutchfield and have it dropped shipped to me. Then I can send it back if you don’t like it and if you do like it, then I’ll cover the shipping from my house to yours.
Loving your videos, and appreciate all the effort. But, what am I missing about the verbiage of “toe’d out” I’ve always heard cones pointing inward as “toe’d in”. Are you referring to the rear of speaker being toe’d out? Also, your data and opinion of the KLH 5 is exactly what I’m experiencing. Hoping it carries over to the lintons, that I’m about to swap them for.
On-axis = facing directly at you (shown in the example picture) Toed out = each speaker angled toward that respective side (left speaker angled more toward left shoulder) Toe in = each speaker crossing paths in front of you That’s how I define it.
That’s what I thought. Seems the B roll was mismatched to the voice over. I saw this in another video and was beginning to question everything I thought I thought I knew😂
Thanks Erin. I really like comparison videos! Are there any speakers that use a 15" driver that you like. I don't know why I have this in my head, but it seems to me that in my large room that a larger driver will sound better to me. I think one of the reasons is that I once heard those tiny Bose Jewel Cube speakers and they hurt my ears. I started thinking of how if you shine a flashlight in your eyes it is too much but fine if you point it into the room. How does the radiative size of a driver affect the sound?
Honestly, I didn’t think I explained it in too much of detail, but I’m glad that you got something from it. Hopefully I did a good job explaining why I showed that graphic for that particular speaker and not necessarily other ones.
For “true value” and my budget, I will choose Lintons. To me, the big draw for JBLs in that line is purely nostalgia, not necessarily sound quality, but many love them, and that’s great. . I feel they are overpriced for what they provide. I’ll always listen to anything Andrew Jones designs. I’ve owned Klipsch, Pioneer, Kef, and Wharfedale speakers. I’ve enjoyed them all, but I find myself drawn in by the British designed speakers. I believe I’ll keep some model of Wharfedale speakers for my music only stereo rig. I go strictly by how I “feel” while listening to. I do run dual 8” subs in my system. Thanks for comparison E. 👍🏼😎🎶
Would if I could but - as I said - I only discuss the speakers I’ve had hands on with. I have emailed Zu and asked for review samples but no reply. Same for Fyne. If you and others want to see a review for them then I encourage you to let the manufacturers know. The more interest they see from paying customers the more likely they are to send me review samples. Either that, or someone orders them and has them shipped to me.
Id have loved if the PSB Passif 50 made it to this review, i think its one of the more attractive speakers they've built and some of their higher end stuff tends to measure decent, price for them aint to bad either.
Hi Erin, great vid. Is there anything I should look for in the measurement data that would indicate whether a speaker would work in a near field position by which I mean 6-7feet? For example the SP8. I imagine larger 3 ways are not ideal due to driver integration.
You’re correct. The “rule of thumb” is to multiply the largest dimension by 3 and that will be far field. There is a way to tell in the data but it’s not something I provide because it takes some trial and error and I’ve never gotten the impression it would be worth the effort since people typically don’t buy large speakers and sit close to them.
@@ErinsAudioCorner that’s fair. Concentric speakers are supposed to be suited for closer listening. The LS50s are supposed to be ok. Speakers that image from the baffle backwards work best to reduce the ‘front row’ effect of sitting closer; some speakers image ahead of the baffle backwards - usually a horn load tweeter or compression driver does this. But does it show up in measurements? The Source Point 8 largest dimension is 18” so near field extends to 4 ½ feet. I’m well beyond that distance but I’m sure there is much more to it than that. Thanks for responding.
I always enjoy your content, Erin. I'm patiently waiting to see your car audio install - hopefully in detail. SQ is tough in vehicles, keeping a strong front full stage can be a bit intrusive on interiors when placement is critical - makes me wonder how you may have completed yours and to what degree of customization was necessary if any.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Well, I'd also like to see you get it tuned properly and an overview of the system while it's still 2024! 😉😛 Don't know how you could stand to listen to it on your commute without a decent tune on it. However, I do realize that you're still a workin' man and already have a backlog of a bazillion test reviews to work on and get out the door, too. I just wanted to say AGAIN, that you're an absolute MACHINE, mate! I was just looking at how many videos you've produced and all of the different products you've tested and reviewed since you started this CZcams channel (seems like yesterday) and it just blows my mind! Honestly don't know how you find the time! Good on ya! 👍
Idea : a review of old school speakers. Here is my list. Ohm model F/ ADS 910/ IMF TLS-80/ Magenpan timpani /Allison model one/ Infiniti Servo statics. Please add to the list.
@SuperMcgenius I posted this same comment below in a response to another viewer with the same idea, so it's a direct Copy & Paste, but... I think it would be interesting, too, but mostly just to see how all of those speakers compared to the modern offerings from the same companies. Unfortunately, the degradation of the drivers themselves (foam surrounds and paper cones & domes that have become brittle from long term exposure to UV, Ozone, and/or humidity, etc.), along with the likely degradation of some of the cheap components used in their crossovers (capacitors especially), means that they will most definitely Sound AND Measure much differently now than they did when new. :( So, in that regard, there isn't really much definitive or meaningful data to gain from such an endeavor. We'll just have to appreciate our time and experience with them and the nostalgia they evoke.
Great video. I'm trying to decide between SP 8 & 10. My room is on the smaller side. I'm leaning toward the SP 8's, but I do like more "detail" so maybe the SP 10's? Minor point - The "G" in J. Geils Band is a hard "G", not a soft "G". Don't mean to be a jackass, but I thought you should know. Nails on a chalkboard for me.
A. Looking forward to hearing the Mofi SourcePoint 8s at AXPONA, and hearing Andrew Jones speak there. A problem many audiophiles have been experiencing, is, it's hard to hear many speakers in person anymore, even in big cities. There's always the fear of making a mistake, having to sell something at a huge loss, and losing hundreds of dollars. It's happened to me several times. B. I had avoided the Heresys just because of the size of my place (this is DFW, after all). Klipsch speakers have really good dynamics, but I had found the Fortes to be fussy about placement. They also hadn't sounded good with quiet acoustic tracks. There was something about the midrange horn that hadn't sounded right. Cornwall IVs after that, were full bodied, but I hadn't felt they had a warm and lush midrange. B&W is better at this. Cornwalls had sounded large, but a bit dry. None of the Klipsch speakers seem to have good deep bass extension, even the larger ones (Cornwall and La Scala). C. About the frequency response observations: 1. I can't hear above 13 kHz due to my age (48) 2. The observed response varies greatly up to 3 kHz, when I move the mike around even one foot in the room. 3. I can't detect differences below 1.5 db, besides, they shift a lot when I move away from my listening chair, so I tend to not room EQ those. Thought the human ear was very sensitive at 500 Hz? D. I think the dissatisfaction with the L52 was not just about their FR, it was compressed dynamics. L100 I have heard, and they had a pleasant, full bodied sound and not a highly analytical one. Kick drums had sounded lousy. E. My Martin Logan towers go down to 31 Hz, and they have 92 db sensitivity. Of course, my room chews it up.
Hey, I’ll be at AXPONA as well. I need to put together a list of the rooms I’m most interested in stopping by. I don’t necessarily intend to listen to a lot of speakers, but I would like to make contact with some of these brands whose products I’m interested in and would like to be able to bring onto the channel via review.
Erin's comments about the unfussy/wide listening axis for the Source Point 8s is interesting because I had a very different experience auditioning the Source Point 10s. I had just a couple hours with them at a dealer, in a dedicated (but not great) room, but I found them suprisingly fuzzy in regards to listener positioning and axis. I didn't expect this because of my experience with other coaxial tweeter/mid designs, such as KEF or my own Thiel 2.7 speakers, which sound amazingly consistent on or off axis. But if I got closer to the SP10s they really mellowed out and got dark in the top end, and then got bordering on bright if I moved a bit further back, so finding just the right spot for an in between balance wasn't so easy. I also found the sound seemed to collapse more to one speaker if I shifted out of the sweet spot, moreso than many speakers, including my Thiels and other speakers I own (or auditioned). Also found the timbre of the sound changed significant from sitting to standing (I'm not too tall). Why are my impressions different from Erin's? I don't know, but I really experimented with all sorts of listening positions and that was my perception.
Weird. That almost seems as if the dealer had them wired Out-Of-Phase (one speaker wired in reverse polarity), OR that ONE of the individual concentric drive units in the speaker was accidentally wired in reverse at the factory. Did you confirm that both the midwoofers AND tweeters were playing on both units? If one of the tweeters was blown, it might cause strange issues like this as well. I think you'd instantly notice if one of the midwoofers was blown and not playing. It could also have been one of the other components in the signal chain that the SourcePoint 8's were connected to. Who knows? I've know Erin long enough and his impressions/experience with particular drivers and speakers that I've also used or listened to have always been very similar and usually spot on to my own experience.
@@bbfoto7248 no out of phase, I'm very sensitive to that (and have caught it before at dealers). Actually when I described the sound of the SP10s on an audio forum it pretty much mirrored other reviews, such as stereophile, and tonally Erin's review too. It's only the finicky aspect that seems a bit at odds with Erin's experience. But then he had a lot more time with the speaker than I did.
@@QuintEssential-sz2wn Thanks for the reply. Perhaps it is due to beaming and overly large "waveguide" effects resulting in potential IMD/comb filtering/lobing that the larger 10" driver imparts on the concentric tweeter driver's HF response. I think that part of the design discussion included the tradeoffs between their chosen low-frequency extension and the IMD effects of the HF above the crossover that increased xmax of the 10" midwoofer driver would produce at lower frequencies. TBF, I personally haven't heard either of the MoFi SourcePoint speakers, but have heard plenty of the KEF concentric designs as well as Genelec studio monitors, and I own and use the KALI Audio IN-8 v2 active 3-way studio monitors almost daily for my simple bedroom setup. I also use the BMS 5CN162HE concentric 5" midrange/1" HF compression drivers in my own DIY 3-way combined with 10" Ciare HW251N woofers. I limited the HPF for the 5" cone midrange to between 300Hz-350Hz with an LR4 to try to help mitigate any HF modulation due to significant excursion. All to say that I haven't experienced anything similar to what you've described with the SourcePoint 10 with ANY of these other concentric designs. I would be very interested to figure out exactly what is going on, though either of the MoFi's are not particularly interesting to me for some reason.
@@bbfoto7248 My hunch was that a lot of it was down to the big woofer and possible beaming, vs the smaller concentric mid/tweeter arrangements in speakers like KEF and my Thiel 2.7s. In fact, the Thiel's 4.5" midrange was cleverly designed to be "flat" (corrugated in this case) and not conical, to avoid reflections etc with the tweeter. The flagship 3.7s which I also owned, and the 2.7s are among the most coherent speakers top to bottom I've ever heard, and the most coherent in the mids/highs I've heard (for regular dynamic speakers). So I was probably spoiled somewhat in that regard.
I would like to see a review of the hsu ccb-8 coaxial driver speaker selling for $389 each. James Larson at Audioholics gave it a good review back in 2017. I would love to get Erin's review of it.
Do you use the factory stands for your Sourcepoint 8? I'm waiting for delivery of the SP8 without stands and I'm wondering how crucial it is to use the same stands or same height (I believe it's a little over 22" tall) in order to get the same great performance that you measured.
To be clear, I don’t yet own the 8’s. But to answer your question, I did not use the factory stands. I already had some that are adjustable, and very robust.
@@ErinsAudioCornerDo you know what height you set your adjustable stand at for best performance? Or is that listening chair height and/or listening distance dependent? Thanks
@@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah If so, could you post me the link? I have found his reviews of multiple different models from JBL great, but I haven't found the review this particular model :-(.
Hi Erin, Can I go for 1723 S Monitors for all my bed layers or go for B&W CT 7.3 for LCRS and remaining side Surround &Rear surrounds with 1723 S monitors.Which one is more bass& Punch.Please suggest me to go for it.
For those with experience, do you prefer the Mofi or a KEF (not ridiculously priced models), and what are the pros/cons of each? Which should have more spl and less distortion/compression if crossed to a sub above 60-80hz or so?
I build my own speakers from two in solid oak four foot speakers with tweeter and speakers I get my hands on and built a crossovers for a five way speakers two tweeter 6 1/2 mid range and two 10 in woofers because of all the so call hi end speakers they such when you look at the crossovers the cheap wiring the cheap speakers bindings
it’s not planned. I’d have to acquire a pair first. I’m open to having them drop shipped to me if that’s something you’re interested in doing but otherwise I don’t know that I will be reviewing them.
@@ErinsAudioCorner sadly I am in europe, so the shippping cost of shipping them back and forward would probably outweigh the benefit. I am looking forward for your other reviews though.
The response of that Klipsch speaker is just awful. I don't see a "high sensitivity" bass response. I see a 92dB sensitivity in the bass region (Ok, that's reasonably high) coupled with 3dB peak just above 100 Hz that looks characteristic of bad vented bass alignment, and a speaker with no baffle step correction.
listening to recorded music indoors is an illusion, created in a recording studio and influenced mostly by the listening room, not many musicians listen to their own music..The big question could be, what is the most natural sound you can get?.. Why are some speakers that don't measure well very popular?, It's mostly about music right?
What I don't like about retro speakers they have a lip that goes around the front of the speakers, and that lip will cause disfraction from the drivers, affecting the sound. The front baffle should be flat with no lip. They could have kept the Grills on without the lip to keep the grill in place. We know the problems the original retro speakers had, repeat the same problem in the new retro model.
That’s true for many. However, the Wharfedale Linton is specifically designed to be used with the grille to reduce those diffractions (the grille is beveled on with the cutouts just around the radius of the drivers). This is an important distinction that I made in this video and the other videos where I discuss the Linton. 👍
@@JoshCarroll85 everything I hear and read that Grills affect the sound and for the best sound have the Grills off. The idea of having the lip to keep like the originals. Why would you design a speaker to have the Grills on, only to make them look pretty and pass the wife test.
@@michaeloconnor9465 Bevels and grills, because: - The target group likes the retro look - The grills protect speakers, against uv, children's fingers, dust - Reduce the diffractions - Make them look like a peace of furniture, which sizewise they are - Not everybody likes to look at a panels with screwed in black woofers and tweeters in their living room.
That's a great gimmick by wharfedale indeed. At the same time though it's a pity because the speakers are gorgeous without the grills but you cant enjoy them like that :(
You mention the Wharfedales possibly being in the Top 5 of your favorite speakers of all time in another video, yet you prefer the Mofi's. Are they that good?
Where is the CerwinVega! SL12 or SL15. It’s priced really good and would hold its own against these higher priced big boys. Erin contact CV! They are easy to get a hold of and I’m sure they would send you a test sample
@@ErinsAudioCorner check out the measurements online for the CerwinVega CLS215. There decent and for the price can play certain music types like nothing else without spending gobs of cash. They are a unique speaker and could use some light shined on them.
I may have said this but I was once told by one of the greats in the industry, and it certainly was true, that once I understood everything I could about speakers and had great dsp there isn't much question that I would be able to make a better speaker than I could buy. I will now make a prediction. There will be, in the fairly near future, a line of no bullshit hifi speakers called..... ***EAC*** Mark this date everybody!!!
He's already done it in multiple iterations of his car audio systems. ;) But as he has admitted previously, the final results of his DIY handiwork didn't always "look" quite as professional as they sound. 😛 But they always looked great to me and I think he's being a bit hard on himself in that regard. Erin's general M.O.: Pick the best of the best individual drivers for their intended passband, install and implement them properly with crossovers that minimize distortion and beaming effects to achieve smooth & even directivity, minimize as many acoustic issues/variables as possible, then use DSP to match any L/R response and phase + timing deltas at the MLP. BAM! ROCK ON! Even with that said, there will ALWAYS be some sort of compromise or tradeoff with any particular loudspeaker design. If I could, I'd have the huge 1917-1930's Western Electric Horn systems in my living room, but that just ain't gonna happen. These custom horn speakers were made for the first motion picture theaters that included recorded sound with the picture, along with the first ever Vacuum Tube amplifiers that were used to power them. Some of the horns were made from Paper Mache (papier-mâché) and the actual vacuum tubes themselves were literally named "VT1" and "VT2", for Vacuum Tube No 1 & No 2. Search u-toob for "Best sound of Munich High end 2023 is 80+ years old! Noam Geller DIY". Unfortunately I can't find the Link to the other video which discusses the original tube amps and more details about the horns and drivers. All I know is that the most power they ever see is 6.5 watts and nominal RMS is just 0.8 watts to fill a 250+ seat theater. Crazy dynamics.
@bbfoto7248 I am with you on the old horn speakers fron decades ago. Listening right now on my modified K-horns. I am not as big on the tube thing. We have near perfect dsp and converters now. I wouldn't mind a class a tube on just my supertweeters though (-:
Single driver speakers are a joke! Cult following for an inferior idea. Just adds to profit margin for manufacturers. I've been audiofile for 40 years and stand by my experience.
Are you confusing coaxial drivers with full range drivers? Coaxial drivers like the MoFi uses is a woofer/tweeter setup with a crossover network like most other speakers, but the tweeter lies inside the woofer.
I had a pair of Heresy III and Forte II years ago when I first got into "higher end" speakers and at the time I thought a lot of them. The Heresy's I got for 400 dollars and I sold them for the same price. I ended up hating them before I got rid of them. The lack of bass and the extended highs were so annoying. The Forte pair was put at the curb for trash by a neighbor 2 houses down. I grabbed them up at the time thinking I was the luckiest guy in the world. I ended up selling them a year or so later for around 500 bucks and what I concluded is that I do not like the Klipsche heritage line sound. The larger old Klipsche sounded great when I went to buy the Heresy's, as the seller had all of the older models running on Macintosh amps, but when I bought a Linear Tube Audio amp I made a local post asking if anyone had some high sensitivity speakers I could test it out on, as at the time I was considering a pair of Silver 10 Li Audio speakers. Someone responded with a pair of Klipschorn inviting me to come check them out. The nice fella that did so had them highly EQ'd and for good reason, cause even with the huge cabinet and driver picks for such, the sound was piercing and painful and after the revisit to such a sound so many years later... Ive concluded I do not like the older Klipsch sound at all. Now I have a pair of Perlisten R7T that I got for a very good price of 6500 used in mint condition for my living room, and in my bedroom I have some Ascend Acoustic Sierra 2 EX. I would love it if you would review the newest Ascend Acoustic ELX tower with ribbon tweeter. Thats a very interesting speaker that I feel may keep up with the Perlisten given the Klippel measurements Dave has up on the site. New they cost little more than half what the R7T goes for. Id put money on them competing with speakers costing up to 20 grand or even more given how some speaker makers prioritize looks and wager their brand prominence in the industry equates value.
The latest version of the heritage is much improved on linearity.They use much improved crossover and midrange horn. They are still ultra dynamic speaker. Would love a pair on a second system to party and rock out on. Maybe could live with them daily with the right front end IE.. Accuphase or pass labs. Ultimately think some bookies would fit me better for every day listening.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I've always heard the radio station DJ's and his concerts announced as the "Jay" "Guy-LLs" Band (phonetically)....like...I'm a normal "GUY" + two "L"s at the end....or "Guy Tells" without the T. Sooooo confusing, LOL. Depending whether you're French, German, Irish, Scottish, etcetera, it could be correctly pronounced any number of ways. ;)
Links to individual reviews:
JBL L52: czcams.com/video/wG9iIMId0ew/video.html
Wharfedale Linton 85: czcams.com/video/CaxknyOrf3I/video.html
MoFi SourcePoint 8: czcams.com/video/h90tqdGsgP4/video.html
MoFi SourcePoint 10: czcams.com/video/DcYVu0TQtDs/video.html
Klipsch Heresy IV: czcams.com/video/fRku8ACgVSc/video.html
Klipsch Forte IV: czcams.com/video/IZPc1tl1aPs/video.html
Wharfedale Linton 85 vs KLH Model 5: czcams.com/video/9jyiBDmESLU/video.html
I click everytime i see Linton in your titles. Great video as usual
Linton gang 💪
You really are a quality reviewer. Having that measurement set up is something that puts you over the top. Clips always skimps on the cabinet thickness, bracing insulation, etc. Love you reviews.
This is how reviews should be. Excellent work.
Hey, thanks!
For what Klipsch charges for the Heritage series, they could afford to brace the cabinet and add absorptive material. Their cabinets really resonate and make them sound "boxy."
I never thought about trading my Lintons for Heresys, and now I really wont think about it.
The Linton is really my “go to” recommendation over the last year or two.
I traded my lintons in for heresy ivs and never been happier. Theyre setup in a 10x10 room so theres enough bass and i prefer the detail i get from the heresys compared to the lintons. Its best to always listen to speakers for yourself instead of just relying on someone elses review. With that said... i agree that the lintons are the best value in hifi. Great speakers that dont get anything wrong.
@@lakeoffrost4069 I totally agree, when listening to music the Heresy IV give me much more joy than the Linton, and for dialogue in film or series its on another level.
@@eirik5570 yep! I stil had the lintons for a bit after i got the heresys and when i listened to em before i sold em they sounded like there was a banket over em compared to the heresys.
@@eirik5570 yep! The lintons sound like theees a blanket over the speakers compared to tge heresys
Apply some parametric EQ and shelf EQ where it makes sense and fix any inbalance!
We need more Klippel Analysis like yours , big thanks for your work!
Klippel is the game changer in audio!
This was a good subject for a video Erin. I have the Lintons and have enjoyed them for several years. But I’ve always yearned for what I was missing in the more expensive Heresies. I trust your take, and your conclusion supports my retro-box decision. Thanks for keeping it real in this hobby. I sincerely hope that with your growing viewership, you don’t sell-out for personal financial gain. The typical slick-edit CZcamsr persona seems to infect otherwise well-meaning creators once they start making money. Then they want more. 🙏 that you stay the way you are!
I haven’t watched your reviews in a while, sure glad I made it back…nice job!!
Great video. Also this video made me understand how you experience speakers. Thank you !
Excellence review, Erin.
Very helpful. 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Nailed it!! Klipsch REF RM 600 suffers the same internal resonance. I am seriously considering the Australian brand you mentioned to me or having Klaus Bunge build me a pair of Odyssey Loreleis. Thank-you for a very realistic review. You have a subscriber for life here.
Wow! The Source Point 8 defeats the Wharfedale Linton! It’s like when Clubber Lang beat Rocky (in their first fight anyway)! Thanks Erin!
“Hey woman, hey woman” - Clubber Lang
at their price they dont beat lintons... plenty of lintons for 800e in europe...
@@DesanusorLinton 5 yr warranty, Jones-MoF has 1 yr warranty.
@@rayr4320? MoFi Sourcepoint is also 5 year warranty.
speaker/stand warranty: 1 year. Thats what I am reading.@@Mark198d
I'd love for you to do a true retro shootout featuring speakers from the 70s. Vintage infinity, vintage A/D/S, Beovox ect... It would be great because I trust your ears.
@joegreer9584
I think it would be interesting, too, but mostly just to see how all of those speakers compared to the modern offerings from the same companies.
Unfortunately, the degradation of the drivers themselves (foam surrounds and paper cones & domes that have become brittle from long term exposure to UV, Ozone, and/or humidity, etc.), along with the likely degradation of some of the cheap components used in their crossovers (capacitors especiallhy), means that they will most definitely Sound AND Measure much differently now than they did when new. :(
So, in that regard, there isn't really much definitive or meaningful data to gain from such an endeavor.
We'll just have to appreciate our time and experience with them and the nostalgia they evoke.
Exactly, better yet, put some old polks, timeframes, Snell, kappa 8 or 9, old JBL L100 etc. or big ads models against some of the new kids on the block, that would be awesome and I don't understand why the top reviewers haven't done that already.
Thanks for the awesome comparison. I’d have a hard time justifying almost double the price of the Lintons for the MoFi, but At 2000$ vs 1500$, they become compelling though. I think 2000$ would pretty much be my cap for what I’d be willing to spend on speakers, even if the economy wasn’t kicking my ass right now, so comparisons in this range are perfect for me. Thumbs up dude!
Awesome comparison video and very popular speakers. I'd like to see a review on the JBL L100 MKII
JBL said they were going to send me a pair but I haven't gotten them yet. I'll follow up.
@@ErinsAudioCornerI'm looking forward to THAT! Might make my wallet a bit lighter if they pan out.
@@rosswarren436 I also would like to see the JBL100 MKII up for a review.
Ive always wanted someone to take measurements on true vintage speakers. I think that would be really interesting.
I can only imagine the crap you get from the klipsh community but just know you are appreciated for being real and honest THANK YOU
Woohoo for those British designs !! Great reviews as usual Erin from a Brit in Germany
Another great video, Erin. Good stuff. I still think there’s nobody close to you in terms of data and measurements along with great explanations.
On a side note, are either the Philharmonic Audio BMR Tower or HT Tower on your list to review?
I hope so. Not many reviews of the BMR Tower. Are the BMR's still available or did the HT replace them?
This video confirms why I like the sourcepoint 8's.
Out of curiosity, what is that?
@@ErinsAudioCorner form factor and detail compared to the already great Linton speaker in this comparison.
Great review, and I completely agree with your conclusions! :D
Hi, love you videos. The objective data on speakers is crucial to understand what is happening. It might be a bit of a hassle but maybe you could occasionally compare the Klippel measurements to in room measurements showing how much the room can interfere. Indicate your room Schroeder frequency etc. I know that this isn't an acoustics channel yet seeing the room effect compared to the near-field can really put things in perspective.
Now this is what I was waiting for!
I’ve extensively listened to the different Klipsch heritage - a lot of them in my house. Bottom line is that I agree with you. I liked the Forte and especially the Chorus II, with EQ, with group delay correction. They all slow down around 200Hz making the warmth sound reduced. Then, on axis, great. Off axis, terrible. Really fun speaker to test, however. I am currently using Klipsch KSP-300’s and they are better overall. I really like the KSP-C6 center as well. With my huge sub it makes a consistent setup wherever you sit or walk around or stand.
Wow,what a system. I’ve heard nothing but good things about the hifi rose. It has me tempted.
Enjoyed the video mate. Thanks from Australia. I know probably a little on the expensive side, but wondering if you could review the Wharfdale Dovedale vs the Sourcepoint 888 sometime in the future. Cheers
Erin. I wish I had made more previous purchases based on your reviews than some "higher followed" reviewers. From Neumi over SCSS5 to others comparisons, I always seem to agree with your takes. Love my Linton's, the Mofi must be really good.
Seems like you watch/listen to the cheapaudioman too much… that guy is a joke and a major shill.
As always great video, you are quickly becoming the premier CZcams reviewer.
I would love to see a redo of the source point 10 with the treble knocked down a bit to match the tone of the source point 8. But give us a source point 12” lol. I like them big…
I want a SP8 with a built in woofer. :)
@@ErinsAudioCorneryes that would be great too.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Optional stands that are their own powered subwoofers. (Why not just a tower? I dunno. It just sounds neat.)
@@Bradimus1 personally, I like the look of tower speakers more than a speaker on a stand.
@@ErinsAudioCorner I generally do too. But for these I for some reason think this fits and people who already have the 8s could upgrade to the new subwoofer/stands later.
Thank you! You certainly spoil us with great content!
Would it be possible to do a modern speakers comparison? 😊
Of course. Throw out a suggestion. Did you see the one I did comparing KEF R3 Meta vs Wharfedale Linton, Aura 2 and MoFi?
@@ErinsAudioCorner did I see? Really? I watch and rewatch all of your videos! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🙂
The other day I auditioned the Klipsch Heritage Forte IV and Cornwall IV in a large room with a high ceiling (they had Heresy too but I didn't listen to them). All the other reviews of the Forte say it is the sweet spot and how good it was, but even though I think my left ear had some eustachian tube blockage, the Forte IV sounded as you described; vocals, especially female vocals, sounded hollow and fuzzy. The Cornwall was much more natural sounding but I'm not sure I could really tell how good it was in those circumstances. The dealer also had very expensive Audio Note UK two-way speakers in another room, but I didn't hear anything special from them, maybe because of my hearing issue or else all that pure silver circuitry is a gimmick. By the way all their amplifiers were tube amplifiers, and very expensive ones in the room with the Audio Note UK speakers.
Phenomenal video
Thanks!
Very good comparaison! Do you ever feel different texture of the sound due to the material use? Ex: paper woofer vs Kevlar , soft dome versus aluminium etc…
I can’t say I’ve ever experienced a texture of sound that I would directly attribute to the material. That’s because I’d attribute it to an issue in the response that is caused by poor driver and crossover pairing.
Great video Erin. I really like this comparison format where people can then go to the full review for more detail.
How do you explain the love for the Heresy IV in the audiophile community? Is a case of people inventing pseudo positives from what is clearly a flawed, almost broken, design? The whole “musicality” thing comes into play no doubt.
Not Erin, but I think the new Heresy IV are just big and "look the part", and also probably sound a lot like many of the vintage speakers that we all remember from our youth that "just got really loud" quite quickly and easily when we cranked them up due to their high sensitivity.
IME, for a lot of folks, if we can "crank them up and just rock out" with our favorite music, then we are happy and amazed for the most part. 😛
When we listen to ANY speakers or system, as long as we can hear at least SOME pleasing aspect of the song that stands out clearly...like, just the vocals, or just the drums, or just the electric guitars, or just the bass, or just the tambourine, horns...or WHATEVER...we seem to just latch onto that in particular and enjoy that "awesome" part of the song, even if other aspects are lost, buried, or not as prominent. Our minds are extremely good at "filling in" the missing information, especially with music that we've heard 1000 times. ;)
We've probably all heard reviewers say "when listening to this particular song, I could really hear the incredible detail of the _______ (instrument)", etcetera, and they might praise the speakers as being a top choice just for that ONE thing that they heard that stood out to them, while forgetting about everything else because...they KNOW the track extremely well and their mind was able to "fill in" the rest.
As a musician who has also had a home recording studio for many years, for most folks, my experience is that unless you can demonstrate the (sometimes huge) differences between two different speakers side-by-side in a direct comparison, they just don't have any established or immediate Reference Point, and their ears and mind simply adjust and enjoy whatever prominent instrument or vocal "stands out" most when listening to any given speaker....that is, as long as something doesn't sound completely or obviously wrong.
I say this because, using the same high quality and neutral studio monitors, most listener's jaws will drop at how vastly different the sound and their experience can be when switching between a really good well-balanced MIX that has smooth & even spectral balance + a well-defined soundstage & imaging, VERSUS hearing a very rough initial mix where few if any EQ or other corrections and adjustments have been made.
BUT they had already really liked even that initial rough mix when they first heard it, and they didn't notice anything "wrong" with it per se. But the final mix was a NIGHT & DAY difference. :P
IOW...they didn't initially care or realize what "bad" speakers (i.e. a bad mix) sound like until they heard the same music properly mixed and EQ'd to where it actually sounds really good...like hearing a completely different set of speakers and just not knowing what you were missing beforehand.
I've even had someone say "man, that already sounds really good" while I was listening to a track in MONO to check for phase issues, and nodded "Yep, Thanks", while I then casually switched it back to STEREO, and they're like..."WHOA!!!...What did you just do?!?! That's Amazing!" LOL :-P
In short, we can usually pick out things we like about almost any speaker. And unless there is an obvious shortcoming or glaring issue, we don't always care or notice any underlying problems all that much. We might only notice an issue when listening to a particular track that we love and have heard 1000 times without hearing that particular issue before.
And then there is good ol' Confirmation and Expectation Bias. IOW we judge and hear what we WANT to hear based on a speaker's looks/aesthetics, brand prestige or personal preference (Cerwin-Vega = Bad/JBL = Good), how many or how big the drivers are, etcetera, etc.
See:
"Audio Musings by Sean Olive - The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests" (sean.olive.blogspot.2009.04)
...just my experience FWIW.
@@bbfoto7248 thanks for your great comment. I think you absolutely nailed it.
Just an idea. A fun review would be on the iLoud Micro Monitors. Little computer speakers with solid bass down to 50Hz that can fit in the palm of your hand. They always put a smile on my face and would love to see measurements and your subjective thoughts.
Although a lot more expensive, Erin's take on the Neumann KH80 would be interesting as well.
I know you can't do all of them, but sure wish you could do the JBL L100 Classic, either the one from a few years ago or the new MK. II version. Most reviews of either one have been favorable, but I'd sure like to see some real-world data on it before pulling out the credit card. Your review of (and this video) including the Klipsch Forte IV made me glad I didn't buy that one, but have held off so far on finding my "end game" speaker.
I have asked. I think they were going to send me a pair but I haven’t heard back in about a month. I followed up last night.
I typically recommend that if people wanna see me review something, then they send an email to manufacturers as well if they know paying customers won’t buy without a review from myself or others then they are more likely to send it out.
Alternatively, if you want, you could buy it from Crutchfield and have it dropped shipped to me. Then I can send it back if you don’t like it and if you do like it, then I’ll cover the shipping from my house to yours.
I hope you test the 4312G and/or L100 Classics someday! 🤞
Loving your videos, and appreciate all the effort. But, what am I missing about the verbiage of “toe’d out” I’ve always heard cones pointing inward as “toe’d in”. Are you referring to the rear of speaker being toe’d out?
Also, your data and opinion of the KLH 5 is exactly what I’m experiencing. Hoping it carries over to the lintons, that I’m about to swap them for.
On-axis = facing directly at you (shown in the example picture)
Toed out = each speaker angled toward that respective side (left speaker angled more toward left shoulder)
Toe in = each speaker crossing paths in front of you
That’s how I define it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner seems the diagram is mislabeled at about the 5:40 mark
That’s what I thought. Seems the B roll was mismatched to the voice over. I saw this in another video and was beginning to question everything I thought I thought I knew😂
whooops! Okay, check this:czcams.com/video/C-2Uy2Gk7Dg/video.html
Thanks Erin. I really like comparison videos! Are there any speakers that use a 15" driver that you like. I don't know why I have this in my head, but it seems to me that in my large room that a larger driver will sound better to me. I think one of the reasons is that I once heard those tiny Bose Jewel Cube speakers and they hurt my ears. I started thinking of how if you shine a flashlight in your eyes it is too much but fine if you point it into the room. How does the radiative size of a driver affect the sound?
Forte in this video uses 12" woofer and 15" radiator.
Thanks for explaining the CSD graph in detail..
Honestly, I didn’t think I explained it in too much of detail, but I’m glad that you got something from it. Hopefully I did a good job explaining why I showed that graphic for that particular speaker and not necessarily other ones.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Bothersome Enclosure Resonances that stick out like a sore thumb..
@@rickg8015 It can be a drive unit resonance itself as well, as I believe Erin also noted.
@@bbfoto7248Yes, most likely also the Mid horn itself and the ringing basket of the woofer.. But the unbraced cab is the main one I surmise..
For “true value” and my budget, I will choose Lintons. To me, the big draw for JBLs in that line is purely nostalgia, not necessarily sound quality, but many love them, and that’s great. . I feel they are overpriced for what they provide. I’ll always listen to anything Andrew Jones designs. I’ve owned Klipsch, Pioneer, Kef, and Wharfedale speakers. I’ve enjoyed them all, but I find myself drawn in by the British designed speakers. I believe I’ll keep some model of Wharfedale speakers for my music only stereo rig. I go strictly by how I “feel” while listening to. I do run dual 8” subs in my system. Thanks for comparison E. 👍🏼😎🎶
Klipsch never stopped making vintage loudspeakers LOL.
Thanks for the review. I wish you have added Zu DWX to this list.
Would if I could but - as I said - I only discuss the speakers I’ve had hands on with. I have emailed Zu and asked for review samples but no reply. Same for Fyne.
If you and others want to see a review for them then I encourage you to let the manufacturers know. The more interest they see from paying customers the more likely they are to send me review samples.
Either that, or someone orders them and has them shipped to me.
Someone get this man a pair of Zus to measure. I would be VERY interested!
I said this so many times, union 6 would be the best to review right in the middle of the lineup
For front left and right speakers in an 7.2.4 setup, how would the Source Point 8 with stand (given it has a sub) compare with the KEF r5 meta?
I hope you can review the new super denton from wharfedale!
Me, too.
or Dovedale
@@seventeendegree super denton in more compact and more friendly on the wallet so to me it would be more interesting.
@@JoseFerreira-zb7whI agree :)
Id have loved if the PSB Passif 50 made it to this review, i think its one of the more attractive speakers they've built and some of their higher end stuff tends to measure decent, price for them aint to bad either.
Hi Erin, great vid. Is there anything I should look for in the measurement data that would indicate whether a speaker would work in a near field position by which I mean 6-7feet? For example the SP8. I imagine larger 3 ways are not ideal due to driver integration.
You’re correct. The “rule of thumb” is to multiply the largest dimension by 3 and that will be far field. There is a way to tell in the data but it’s not something I provide because it takes some trial and error and I’ve never gotten the impression it would be worth the effort since people typically don’t buy large speakers and sit close to them.
@@ErinsAudioCorner that’s fair. Concentric speakers are supposed to be suited for closer listening. The LS50s are supposed to be ok. Speakers that image from the baffle backwards work best to reduce the ‘front row’ effect of sitting closer; some speakers image ahead of the baffle backwards - usually a horn load tweeter or compression driver does this. But does it show up in measurements? The Source Point 8 largest dimension is 18” so near field extends to 4 ½ feet. I’m well beyond that distance but I’m sure there is much more to it than that. Thanks for responding.
I always enjoy your content, Erin. I'm patiently waiting to see your car audio install - hopefully in detail. SQ is tough in vehicles, keeping a strong front full stage can be a bit intrusive on interiors when placement is critical - makes me wonder how you may have completed yours and to what degree of customization was necessary if any.
Oh, there's LOTS of customization. I do still plan to document it but honestly I just haven't prioritized tuning it to really talk about it.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Well, I'd also like to see you get it tuned properly and an overview of the system while it's still 2024! 😉😛 Don't know how you could stand to listen to it on your commute without a decent tune on it.
However, I do realize that you're still a workin' man and already have a backlog of a bazillion test reviews to work on and get out the door, too.
I just wanted to say AGAIN, that you're an absolute MACHINE, mate! I was just looking at how many videos you've produced and all of the different products you've tested and reviewed since you started this CZcams channel (seems like yesterday) and it just blows my mind!
Honestly don't know how you find the time!
Good on ya! 👍
Idea : a review of old school speakers. Here is my list. Ohm model F/ ADS 910/ IMF TLS-80/ Magenpan timpani /Allison model one/ Infiniti Servo statics. Please add to the list.
@SuperMcgenius
I posted this same comment below in a response to another viewer with the same idea, so it's a direct Copy & Paste, but...
I think it would be interesting, too, but mostly just to see how all of those speakers compared to the modern offerings from the same companies.
Unfortunately, the degradation of the drivers themselves (foam surrounds and paper cones & domes that have become brittle from long term exposure to UV, Ozone, and/or humidity, etc.), along with the likely degradation of some of the cheap components used in their crossovers (capacitors especially), means that they will most definitely Sound AND Measure much differently now than they did when new. :(
So, in that regard, there isn't really much definitive or meaningful data to gain from such an endeavor.
We'll just have to appreciate our time and experience with them and the nostalgia they evoke.
Great video. I'm trying to decide between SP 8 & 10. My room is on the smaller side. I'm leaning toward the SP 8's, but I do like more "detail" so maybe the SP 10's?
Minor point - The "G" in J. Geils Band is a hard "G", not a soft "G". Don't mean to be a jackass, but I thought you should know. Nails on a chalkboard for me.
Get the 8. You get better coherency, detail without the annoying fatigue
A. Looking forward to hearing the Mofi SourcePoint 8s at AXPONA, and hearing Andrew Jones speak there. A problem many audiophiles have been experiencing, is, it's hard to hear many speakers in person anymore, even in big cities. There's always the fear of making a mistake, having to sell something at a huge loss, and losing hundreds of dollars. It's happened to me several times. B. I had avoided the Heresys just because of the size of my place (this is DFW, after all). Klipsch speakers have really good dynamics, but I had found the Fortes to be fussy about placement. They also hadn't sounded good with quiet acoustic tracks. There was something about the midrange horn that hadn't sounded right. Cornwall IVs after that, were full bodied, but I hadn't felt they had a warm and lush midrange. B&W is better at this. Cornwalls had sounded large, but a bit dry. None of the Klipsch speakers seem to have good deep bass extension, even the larger ones (Cornwall and La Scala). C. About the frequency response observations: 1. I can't hear above 13 kHz due to my age (48) 2. The observed response varies greatly up to 3 kHz, when I move the mike around even one foot in the room. 3. I can't detect differences below 1.5 db, besides, they shift a lot when I move away from my listening chair, so I tend to not room EQ those. Thought the human ear was very sensitive at 500 Hz? D. I think the dissatisfaction with the L52 was not just about their FR, it was compressed dynamics. L100 I have heard, and they had a pleasant, full bodied sound and not a highly analytical one. Kick drums had sounded lousy. E. My Martin Logan towers go down to 31 Hz, and they have 92 db sensitivity. Of course, my room chews it up.
Hey, I’ll be at AXPONA as well. I need to put together a list of the rooms I’m most interested in stopping by. I don’t necessarily intend to listen to a lot of speakers, but I would like to make contact with some of these brands whose products I’m interested in and would like to be able to bring onto the channel via review.
Erin's comments about the unfussy/wide listening axis for the Source Point 8s is interesting because I had a very different experience auditioning the Source Point 10s. I had just a couple hours with them at a dealer, in a dedicated (but not great) room, but I found them suprisingly fuzzy in regards to listener positioning and axis. I didn't expect this because of my experience with other coaxial tweeter/mid designs, such as KEF or my own Thiel 2.7 speakers, which sound amazingly consistent on or off axis. But if I got closer to the SP10s they really mellowed out and got dark in the top end, and then got bordering on bright if I moved a bit further back, so finding just the right spot for an in between balance wasn't so easy. I also found the sound seemed to collapse more to one speaker if I shifted out of the sweet spot, moreso than many speakers, including my Thiels and other speakers I own (or auditioned). Also found the timbre of the sound changed significant from sitting to standing (I'm not too tall). Why are my impressions different from Erin's? I don't know, but I really experimented with all sorts of listening positions and that was my perception.
actually it seems the 10s and the 8s are quite different and if I remember correctly Erin didnt liked the 10s...
Weird. That almost seems as if the dealer had them wired Out-Of-Phase (one speaker wired in reverse polarity), OR that ONE of the individual concentric drive units in the speaker was accidentally wired in reverse at the factory.
Did you confirm that both the midwoofers AND tweeters were playing on both units? If one of the tweeters was blown, it might cause strange issues like this as well. I think you'd instantly notice if one of the midwoofers was blown and not playing.
It could also have been one of the other components in the signal chain that the SourcePoint 8's were connected to. Who knows?
I've know Erin long enough and his impressions/experience with particular drivers and speakers that I've also used or listened to have always been very similar and usually spot on to my own experience.
@@bbfoto7248 no out of phase, I'm very sensitive to that (and have caught it before at dealers). Actually when I described the sound of the SP10s on an audio forum it pretty much mirrored other reviews, such as stereophile, and tonally Erin's review too. It's only the finicky aspect that seems a bit at odds with Erin's experience. But then he had a lot more time with the speaker than I did.
@@QuintEssential-sz2wn
Thanks for the reply. Perhaps it is due to beaming and overly large "waveguide" effects resulting in potential IMD/comb filtering/lobing that the larger 10" driver imparts on the concentric tweeter driver's HF response.
I think that part of the design discussion included the tradeoffs between their chosen low-frequency extension and the IMD effects of the HF above the crossover that increased xmax of the 10" midwoofer driver would produce at lower frequencies.
TBF, I personally haven't heard either of the MoFi SourcePoint speakers, but have heard plenty of the KEF concentric designs as well as Genelec studio monitors, and I own and use the KALI Audio IN-8 v2 active 3-way studio monitors almost daily for my simple bedroom setup.
I also use the BMS 5CN162HE concentric 5" midrange/1" HF compression drivers in my own DIY 3-way combined with 10" Ciare HW251N woofers. I limited the HPF for the 5" cone midrange to between 300Hz-350Hz with an LR4 to try to help mitigate any HF modulation due to significant excursion.
All to say that I haven't experienced anything similar to what you've described with the SourcePoint 10 with ANY of these other concentric designs.
I would be very interested to figure out exactly what is going on, though either of the MoFi's are not particularly interesting to me for some reason.
@@bbfoto7248 My hunch was that a lot of it was down to the big woofer and possible beaming, vs the smaller concentric mid/tweeter arrangements in speakers like KEF and my Thiel 2.7s. In fact, the Thiel's 4.5" midrange was cleverly designed to be "flat" (corrugated in this case) and not conical, to avoid reflections etc with the tweeter. The flagship 3.7s which I also owned, and the 2.7s are among the most coherent speakers top to bottom I've ever heard, and the most coherent in the mids/highs I've heard (for regular dynamic speakers). So I was probably spoiled somewhat in that regard.
I would like to see a review of the hsu ccb-8 coaxial driver speaker selling for $389 each. James Larson at Audioholics gave it a good review back in 2017. I would love to get Erin's review of it.
Me, too. But I’d need someone to send me some.
Heresy with a subwoofer is a great combo.
When the speakers are not consistent as they jump about 4db, does that have any relation to dynamics?
Do you use the factory stands for your Sourcepoint 8? I'm waiting for delivery of the SP8 without stands and I'm wondering how crucial it is to use the same stands or same height (I believe it's a little over 22" tall) in order to get the same great performance that you measured.
To be clear, I don’t yet own the 8’s.
But to answer your question, I did not use the factory stands. I already had some that are adjustable, and very robust.
@@ErinsAudioCornerDo you know what height you set your adjustable stand at for best performance? Or is that listening chair height and/or listening distance dependent? Thanks
Would love to see/ hear your take on lil' retro bookshelf JBLs 4309s :-)
He has a review on them
@@Mishael_Agyei-Boamah If so, could you post me the link? I have found his reviews of multiple different models from JBL great, but I haven't found the review this particular model :-(.
Hi Erin,
Can I go for 1723 S Monitors for all my bed layers or go for B&W CT 7.3 for LCRS and remaining side Surround &Rear surrounds with 1723 S monitors.Which one is more bass& Punch.Please suggest me to go for it.
I have no idea about the B&W. But … go for it. 😂👍
For those with experience, do you prefer the Mofi or a KEF (not ridiculously priced models), and what are the pros/cons of each? Which should have more spl and less distortion/compression if crossed to a sub above 60-80hz or so?
Watch his video comparing the R3, the MoFi and the Wharfedale Aura/Linton
I build my own speakers from two in solid oak four foot speakers with tweeter and speakers I get my hands on and built a crossovers for a five way speakers two tweeter 6 1/2 mid range and two 10 in woofers because of all the so call hi end speakers they such when you look at the crossovers the cheap wiring the cheap speakers bindings
Did Erin allready talk about the Pro-Ject Speaker Box 5 S2? Would love to buy them but can't to it withouth the insight of some good measurements.
I have not.
@@ErinsAudioCorner do you plan to review it?
it’s not planned. I’d have to acquire a pair first. I’m open to having them drop shipped to me if that’s something you’re interested in doing but otherwise I don’t know that I will be reviewing them.
@@ErinsAudioCorner sadly I am in europe, so the shippping cost of shipping them back and forward would probably outweigh the benefit. I am looking forward for your other reviews though.
The response of that Klipsch speaker is just awful. I don't see a "high sensitivity" bass response. I see a 92dB sensitivity in the bass region (Ok, that's reasonably high) coupled with 3dB peak just above 100 Hz that looks characteristic of bad vented bass alignment, and a speaker with no baffle step correction.
I would like to see more Genelecs tested. Specifically: 1032C, 8350A, and 8340A.
Me too.
Warfedale for the win!
Really good speaker.
Would the MoFi 8 work well in smaller room? Like 10 x 14. Sitting approximately 7’ from speakers?
Yeah, for sure. I had them in a similar situation in my bedroom for a bit.
Yes they'd work perfectly.... Get them
listening to recorded music indoors is an illusion, created in a recording studio and influenced mostly by the listening room, not many musicians listen to their own music..The big question could be, what is the most natural sound you can get?.. Why are some speakers that don't measure well very popular?, It's mostly about music right?
What I don't like about retro speakers they have a lip that goes around the front of the speakers, and that lip will cause disfraction from the drivers, affecting the sound. The front baffle should be flat with no lip. They could have kept the Grills on without the lip to keep the grill in place. We know the problems the original retro speakers had, repeat the same problem in the new retro model.
That’s true for many. However, the Wharfedale Linton is specifically designed to be used with the grille to reduce those diffractions (the grille is beveled on with the cutouts just around the radius of the drivers).
This is an important distinction that I made in this video and the other videos where I discuss the Linton. 👍
I think this is why the MoFi is shaped with the baffle protruding forward
@@JoshCarroll85 everything I hear and read that Grills affect the sound and for the best sound have the Grills off. The idea of having the lip to keep like the originals. Why would you design a speaker to have the Grills on, only to make them look pretty and pass the wife test.
@@michaeloconnor9465
Bevels and grills, because:
- The target group likes the retro look
- The grills protect speakers, against uv, children's fingers, dust
- Reduce the diffractions
- Make them look like a peace of furniture, which sizewise they are
- Not everybody likes to look at a panels with screwed in black woofers and tweeters in their living room.
That's a great gimmick by wharfedale indeed. At the same time though it's a pity because the speakers are gorgeous without the grills but you cant enjoy them like that :(
Super Denton?
J. Geils. Hard “G” like goat. Rhymes with tiles.
Erin, how about Cornwall?
Never met him. He was long before my time.
You mention the Wharfedales possibly being in the Top 5 of your favorite speakers of all time in another video, yet you prefer the Mofi's. Are they that good?
Yup.
@ErinsAudioCorner Bought a pair. They are phenomenal.
E Dizzle😊
Sorry missed the c in klipsch
Where is the CerwinVega! SL12 or SL15. It’s priced really good and would hold its own against these higher priced big boys.
Erin contact CV! They are easy to get a hold of and I’m sure they would send you a test sample
In someone’s garage playing 150dB, I imagine.
@@ErinsAudioCorner 😂 those models (have owned both in years gone by) are completely SCREAMING ear bleeders.
CVs were never good speakers.
@@analogkid4557 lots of people enjoy them. There has been many series over the years, some are better than others.
@@ErinsAudioCorner check out the measurements online for the CerwinVega CLS215. There decent and for the price can play certain music types like nothing else without spending gobs of cash. They are a unique speaker and could use some light shined on them.
But still r3 meta over these right? Because of the neutrality..
I started in this hobby by watching subjective reviews. Now I know that everyone that enjoys those Klipsch speakers is a bit wonky in the ear holes.
I am a big Klipsch Heritage fan. Except the Heresy. They sound terrible. They bring the Heritage line down.
SourcePoint 8's from $3000 to $2,200. I'd be screaming from the rooftops for a rebate.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Yeah, kind of sux for early adopters who paid the original price, but that's what happens ANY TIME something goes "On Sale". Whaddya' gonna do?
Love you reviews, but please watch your J. Geils pronunciation: Jay GUY-uhlz. Not JIGH-uhlz.
Dude, I’m trying. There seems to be a lot of disagreement around this. If you look at the comments in my last video, you’ll see what I mean. 😂😂
"it is a beast of a subwoofer" ok I'm sick of that ad. Come on CZcams don't you have anything else?
I may have said this but I was once told by one of the greats in the industry, and it certainly was true, that once I understood everything I could about speakers and had great dsp there isn't much question that I would be able to make a better speaker than I could buy. I will now make a prediction. There will be, in the fairly near future, a line of no bullshit hifi speakers called.....
***EAC***
Mark this date everybody!!!
He's already done it in multiple iterations of his car audio systems. ;) But as he has admitted previously, the final results of his DIY handiwork didn't always "look" quite as professional as they sound. 😛 But they always looked great to me and I think he's being a bit hard on himself in that regard.
Erin's general M.O.:
Pick the best of the best individual drivers for their intended passband, install and implement them properly with crossovers that minimize distortion and beaming effects to achieve smooth & even directivity, minimize as many acoustic issues/variables as possible, then use DSP to match any L/R response and phase + timing deltas at the MLP.
BAM! ROCK ON!
Even with that said, there will ALWAYS be some sort of compromise or tradeoff with any particular loudspeaker design.
If I could, I'd have the huge 1917-1930's Western Electric Horn systems in my living room, but that just ain't gonna happen. These custom horn speakers were made for the first motion picture theaters that included recorded sound with the picture, along with the first ever Vacuum Tube amplifiers that were used to power them. Some of the horns were made from Paper Mache (papier-mâché) and the actual vacuum tubes themselves were literally named "VT1" and "VT2", for Vacuum Tube No 1 & No 2.
Search u-toob for "Best sound of Munich High end 2023 is 80+ years old! Noam Geller DIY".
Unfortunately I can't find the Link to the other video which discusses the original tube amps and more details about the horns and drivers. All I know is that the most power they ever see is 6.5 watts and nominal RMS is just 0.8 watts to fill a 250+ seat theater. Crazy dynamics.
@bbfoto7248
I am with you on the old horn speakers fron decades ago. Listening right now on my modified K-horns. I am not as big on the tube thing. We have near perfect dsp and converters now. I wouldn't mind a class a tube on just my supertweeters though (-:
This guy makes hate all speakers
Lol what??? Have you checked his past 10 speaker reviews?
Point out how many he didn't recommend
Single driver speakers are a joke! Cult following for an inferior idea. Just adds to profit margin for manufacturers. I've been audiofile for 40 years and stand by my experience.
What? None of these are single driver. 🤷♂️
there was no single driver speaker in this video
Might want to check your spelling of audiophile as well
@@ErinsAudioCorner Guessing maybe they thought the coaxial are “single” driver but then again, 40 years of “audio file” hard to know for sure. 😅😇🤦♂️
Are you confusing coaxial drivers with full range drivers? Coaxial drivers like the MoFi uses is a woofer/tweeter setup with a crossover network like most other speakers, but the tweeter lies inside the woofer.
How have you been doing since your divorce?
I had a pair of Heresy III and Forte II years ago when I first got into "higher end" speakers and at the time I thought a lot of them. The Heresy's I got for 400 dollars and I sold them for the same price. I ended up hating them before I got rid of them. The lack of bass and the extended highs were so annoying. The Forte pair was put at the curb for trash by a neighbor 2 houses down. I grabbed them up at the time thinking I was the luckiest guy in the world. I ended up selling them a year or so later for around 500 bucks and what I concluded is that I do not like the Klipsche heritage line sound. The larger old Klipsche sounded great when I went to buy the Heresy's, as the seller had all of the older models running on Macintosh amps, but when I bought a Linear Tube Audio amp I made a local post asking if anyone had some high sensitivity speakers I could test it out on, as at the time I was considering a pair of Silver 10 Li Audio speakers. Someone responded with a pair of Klipschorn inviting me to come check them out. The nice fella that did so had them highly EQ'd and for good reason, cause even with the huge cabinet and driver picks for such, the sound was piercing and painful and after the revisit to such a sound so many years later... Ive concluded I do not like the older Klipsch sound at all. Now I have a pair of Perlisten R7T that I got for a very good price of 6500 used in mint condition for my living room, and in my bedroom I have some Ascend Acoustic Sierra 2 EX. I would love it if you would review the newest Ascend Acoustic ELX tower with ribbon tweeter. Thats a very interesting speaker that I feel may keep up with the Perlisten given the Klippel measurements Dave has up on the site. New they cost little more than half what the R7T goes for. Id put money on them competing with speakers costing up to 20 grand or even more given how some speaker makers prioritize looks and wager their brand prominence in the industry equates value.
The latest version of the heritage is much improved on linearity.They use much improved crossover and midrange horn.
They are still ultra dynamic speaker.
Would love a pair on a second system to party and rock out on.
Maybe could live with them daily with the right front end IE.. Accuphase or pass labs.
Ultimately think some bookies would fit me better for every day listening.
Used to love the foam grills on the jbls in the 70's but they sounded like shit compared to others. But the orange foam grills were cool 😊
They’re gonna attend the “Foam rot Fest” in a decade or so lol!
Unless you use the steampunk klippel version with copper piping the measurements won't be accurate.
J. Jiles lol. It’s guy-les
I f*cking quit!!!!!! 😡 😡 😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner I've always heard the radio station DJ's and his concerts announced as the "Jay" "Guy-LLs" Band (phonetically)....like...I'm a normal "GUY" + two "L"s at the end....or "Guy Tells" without the T.
Sooooo confusing, LOL. Depending whether you're French, German, Irish, Scottish, etcetera, it could be correctly pronounced any number of ways. ;)