What Happened To Lillia? - Why NO ONE Plays Her | League of Legends
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Many of the new champions in 2020-2022 have had very successful initial launches, featuring well over a 10% pick rate for several months and it usually holds long after their initial hype dies down. Some of them don't and for today, we're gonna find out why that's the case for Lillia: The Bashful Bloom!
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#Lillia #LoL #WhyNoOnePlays
Lilia stood by me when I was bad at League. I will stand by her when she is off-Meta.
Fear the Deer.
*Insert Russian Deer meme*
W mindset
Unless you're graves
We all know what happens on bambi
In Lilia we trust
Ok Claude
As a main Lillia, with 150k mastery points, I must say that I appreciate that Lillia is not a common pick, so I can enjoy playing her and dominate with her better.
For real
Same here
Yes sir
I kinda started to main her in the top line. I can use her to deal with stuff i can't kill with another champions
I thought when pro players were picking her that she would get gutted, she survived that besides having the ult nerf, but when they gave her the mini rework i could see they wanted to help her soloq WR. She is a lot better then before the mini rework. But glad she not a pick and ban champ for pros, will always pick her or my Warwick for jungle. Love playing her.
Lillia was the first champ for me that felt good. I finally found someone who i wanted to play no matter the matchup no matter the meta. She can go top or mid or jungle and ive even carried as lillia support. I love this silly little deer so much and im glad no one plays her because i KNOW shes so annoying to fight.
Make illaoi crazy.
Moving so fast for her do anything.
i honestly love playing her support or in certain matchups. nevermind she dominates in aram, if you're up against something like a teemo or illaoi she just does so well
Petition to make Vars say Lillia's W ability name.
I’d sign that.
WATCH OUT! EEP!
he finally said it on the "best Ws video"
@@lillyie Thanks
My solution would be a damage reduction that affects champs already affected by her passive. She could take a certain percentage less damage from champs that are burning from her passive, that way she still needs to engage to be most effective, but her duelling gets stronger so when she re-engages she doesn't get blown up
More ways to prock the sleep like seriously a dream based champion and only haveing her ult cause sleep. thinking of a sleep debuff like hitting all abilitys if they have the drowsy debuff with 3 stacks kinda like brand if you are able to hit all 3 ablitys
I literally thought of the same exact thing except I clarified that the damage reduction scales with her level so it would stay relevant at all phases of the game.
@@tomasyracheta1150 the problem is that sleep itself is extremely strong, and having that available to a scaling jungler so early is bound to have problems
Not only it stops you in place , it increases the damage of abilities.
There is a reason why Zoe is so strong when she literally has basically 2 damaging abilities
Great idea !
Honestly just swap her w and ult. Her w is now a point and click single target sleep that only works on targets she's hit by three or more attacks or abilities (of lilia's) recently. Then we make her ult (old w) do extra damage if the target is slept. Now she has an extra kiting tool that act's as a get off me and a way to secure kills during ganks.
I currently main Lillia and have been a Lillia OTP in the past. I can say with quite a lot of confidence that most of Lillia’s problems are solved by not going either full tank or full squishy. Going with a Riftmaker setup with Demonic embrace and tank items like Deadman’s is absolutely the best way to play her and completely solves her problem of being incredibly squishy by just brute forcing her to be tanky.
Interesting perception, spamming her upon picking her up I had thought of it!
it did not solve mine my build was liandrys,rylas, frozen heart,fimbulwinter and i was fighting twitch , i used ult and perfectly hit the center of her w then q didnt even kill a squishy champ.
Ap mythic, ionian boots, cosmic, deadman’s, force of nature and rabbaddon. With relentless hunter.
I still play her. I love her hit and run playstyle, speeding around the rift being uncatchable and still doing lots of damage. I love her voicelines and personality too. She’s just so fun for me lol
Same. I love to boop my enemies and runaway, making them extremely frustrated and getting free kills. Another thing I love is pulling of an amazing multiman sleep. A pentakill on Lillia is extremely satisfying.
i have been playing lillia since her release, and i can say my favorite thing about playing her is that she DOES NOT have an abilitie to protect her, there is no magic button that will save your life, its just you and your move speed, this might sound bad, but it is so satisfying to dodge everything just by moving instead of using the "outplay button" that most skirmisher/assassin have, it makes me feel that I did an amazing play, not the champion.
I have 3 tips for new lillia players that i think will make you enjoy the character a lot more:
1. try ignite instead of flash, i know it sounds like i am inting but hear me out, lillia doesn't have any immediate cc or damage that require flash, the only advantages that flash gives you is a 5 minute cooldown escape in the earlygame and easier 5 man ultimates in the late game.
ignite allows you to get early kills thanks to the extra damage is basically like hitting an extra q, negates healing (there is a lot of healing right now), reveals enemies, and it has a lower cooldown, so trading your ignite for an enemy flash is always worth, also, it doesn't wake enemies up, so feel free to burn sleeping enemies.
2. stop forcing a 5 man ultimate, use your ult to assessinate 1 or 2 players and then go get some objectives, 5 man ultimates are super cool but it is not your only win condition, you can always just sleep one enemy carry, one shot him with your ignite, and then fight a 5v4, sleeping fewer people also has the advantage that it makes it easier for your team to focus one guy.
3. There is no "official" build, try different runes and items, some times dark harvest is good, sometimes conqueror is better, and sometimes predator is the best, try different stuff against different champions and see what works for you.
thanks for this. i've found that flash is basically useless bc 90% of the time i die immediately after using it. ill try ignite
I don't really agree with flash being useless, as it basically nullifies your chances to only be able to get a big combo. Yes it won't happen each game, but even just catching an adc off-guard with q flash r can be invaluable. However you could replace it easily with ghost for sure. I don't really like ignite on her, as you usually can chase one more second and land another q, but that's a matter of taste.
I definitely agree with the other tips though :D
@@Biditchoun well the ignite is also for anti-healing, which makes her DOT damage even more dangerous
That's a very valid point
I start to play her. Maybe I will try ignite.
I got invaded almost every game since I start playing her. Therefore I usually ward my opposite Camps.
I still remembered how my Lilia got overshadowed by Yasuo 2.0 and didn’t get any cinematic !!!
Te delató el auto corrector amigo
@@lok4890 ah 🤯
You should be aware that Lillia was specifically designed to be a niche champion, a pocket pick, played by only a few. She's basically hitting the expected mark. And as a jungler, she's not that low, too many of them have low pick rates
She’s a scary champion damage wise
@@internationalarmy3984 true but you need to hit the sweet spot on q and w
@@KinPlatano so she’s like Darius and Aatrox?
@@internationalarmy3984 pretty much
@@internationalarmy3984 yeah but a less tanky one. U cant tell me that darius and aatrox are immobile because darius builds deadmans and ghost, while aatrox receives movement speed on his ult and has a dash
The most frustrating thing about playing lillia is when you hit a perfect ult but your support Janna just auto attacks the adc, right before your bonk goes off and they get away.
I think it would be cool if lillia would get some kind of percent damage reduction the more stacks of her Q passive she has, what means that as long she is fighting and running around she is hard to kill but as soon as the movement speed wears off she would be back to being a squishy carry again.
For some reason not many people knows how to play around the sleep mechanic, the same scenario happens to me when I play Zoe, but i think is worst with Lillia because is an ULTIMATE wasted
How about 5% damage reduction for each enemy she has affected by passive? Or a flat boost to her armor and mr Maybe? So like weaker 1v1 but better in teamfights
@@sandromaspindzelashvili5767 How about 3% mitigation for each stack, stacking on unique champions hit, and at max stacks (4-5) she gains an additional 5%? Totaling 20% DR if she gets a five man on her Q? A lot of time I'll try to flash Q --> R to engage fights, but most of the time, when I try to get out I'll get nuked. Maybe that's too strong but it will help her with being able to initiate a fight while not giving her OP DR in a 1v1 fight.
@@bmsonic7468
She just doesn’t have the sustain to engage the fight. It just better engaging after enemies CCed wasted.
They could make lillia’s E have a slight push back displacement so that it can interrupt dashes. That would make her a lot harder to get on top of During team fights and skirmishes especially by other high mobility champs. That would in turn make her feel less vulnerable without getting rid of any skill expression.
She would still be very vulnerable against melee champs and other skirmishers
I was actually thinking of this.
Imagine if her Q knocks you back if you were hit by the inner circle. Maybe that'd be too broken lol.
@@avee5870 yeah, but also what if her ult also rooted the enemy?
it has too long of a cast time
completely impossible to do anything against an irelia or jax point and click jump
Draven Draven likes Lilia when she is in my games. When her BONK just decimates the skull of *zreal is really satisfying.
Marshallah
Gigachad Draaaaaaaven 😎😎😎😎💪💪💪💪 vs ultra beta virgin gayzreal 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢🤢
Marshallah
I love when *zreal is censored
Read th quaran brother
IMO, after the items changes in 2021 preseason, her core item (liandrys) no longer gave hp, making her way squishier than the other duelists, at the point that riot needed to gave her a passive sustain, since the new liandrys came, people just go with the standart lillia build (dark harvester + double mask) and expect it to work every single game, this champion is so versitile with the items she can build but no one seems to try new stuff and just complain about whatever counterplay her, if you're against a comp with 2 tanks with hard cc and an assassin that one shot you, what do you think liandrys is supposed to do? try to go conquer with Riftmaker + Fronzen heart and/or Spirit visage instead of complaining about dying without being able to move. if you're against 3 adcarrys/mages you can't even keep close to them to properly use liandrys, try running ludens and one shot'em before they kill you instead of complaining about being outranged.
This guy is so damn true. Experiment with your items people! Lillia with some tank Legendary items is super legit.
yeah, but why should i do that when i can pick diana in both situations, have faster clear, better duelling, and better rech to mages can take drag solo, iam sorry lilia has just no point being played besides we need ap jgl, and even then there are better options
Diamond player here. Gave this a try went 4 up 1 down. You man are a genius
Yeah, thats true and you can even use the crown... but liandry is so fun on her man i want to use liandry only for the funny "haha burn" thing
Man I can't lie, I'm still at the point of discovering you can build Riftnaker on her
I always felt like lilia's w was the most underwhelming part of her kit. A mini dash that kinda slows her down becuase it is so slow compared to her movespeed... If her w could act like a mini janna ult in the sense that everyone hit by the w also gets knocked back could be a way to make her more reliable
I like that idea, I would also like to make it faster depending on movement speed like Rammus Q+Ult interaction. Imagine poking and kiting with Q, get full movement speed and blast them with a W from a bit farther away. It feels so weird going so fast and losing tempo just to W. This change and the knock down Janna like W would reward good players! Nice idea, I liked that
I have to agree. I like lillia quite a bit but i find myself just not using her w if I don't have to. It slows you down when you could just hit q every 1.5 seconds while moving at mach 4. Its basically only there to combo with her ult on a single target,
absolutely agreed thats exactly what i was thinking
Another annoying part of her W is that since that microdash is still considered a dash, it is blocked by Poppy W. It's really annoying to deal with since it really doesn't feel like a dash at all when that "dash" is slowing u down.
Her w isn't meant to be spammed, thats the whole idea. Imagine taking insane fuckin amounts of true damage from a deer that's moving at mach 3 and dodging all your skillshots. That would jus be completely broken, plus if it was spammable then that would make the whole complaint about her being close range even worst. There are so many abilities in the game that basically rely on an ultimate in order to be used, lillia's w is no exception.
Lilia feels like a very extreme overcorrection of other high speed high tempo champs such as Hecarim and Kayn but like you mentioned, AP Bruiser itemization is utter dogwater. even before the item rework in S11 made things even worse like how Mordekaiser is still recovering from the lost of his combo of Liandry/Rylais/Protobelt and it’s a similar story for similar champs.
This, she feels like Hecarim but with less of the “swing your dick around” factor, sure you can clear fast, and once you get a lead it’s very easy to extend those leads and generate overwhelming tempo (just like Hec), but she can’t just slam her ass into people and force crazy plays that still have room for finesse the way Hecarim can. In other words, she’s too much finesse too little force, whilst Hecarim is the much better opposite.
mage items are cancerously overpowered. Her build path leaves her with like 3k hp, idk why mages get so much value out of cheap items
@@Wallynator23 most mage can’t scale AP on AA. I think that’s why.
@@spe02001 you're totally right, but I think riot overcompensated them for it, I just don't see how picking an ad mid laner is ever more beneficial than an ap safe one.
For me the solution is all done
Just add to her passive that she gains armor and magic resistance for each affected enemy
And if only riot could give her back her movement speed at the beginning of the game I'd miss it
I understood that it was a champion of endgame that people don't like to play against and it's sad (I don't count the number of times I got insulted playing lillia)
pre mini rework lillia was 10000 times better than post rework lillia killed a lot of my enjoyment for the champ
The movement speed was too OP in pro play so it had to go. Even though the rework did like nothing for her number wise, her playrate was like exactly the same.
@@amandaslough125 yeah but i really dont care about pro play i care about fun champions being turned into boring simple champs
I basically onetrick lillia and agree with most of your statements in this video. She is a very niche champion and a very hard one to play, because messing up often means death because you are very squishy with the popular liandris build. Lillias lategame damage on full ap is insane, but you get killed with 2 auto attacks by an adc so she heavily relies on zhonyas and flash to be relevant.
This is why a lot of challenger players and a part of the community, myself included, like to go another build wich fixes most of her weaknesses. Besides AP lillias damage scales really hard with abillity haste, because her relatively high base damage + the burn allow you to still deal a lot of damage if you just hit your q very often while staying alive. Conq + Riftmaker Frozen heart and spirit visage/cosmic drive make you very hard to kill an catch, while you dish out a lot of damage and cant get oneshot anymore, which makes your damage and sleep potentail a LOT more consistent. It still requires good kiting but it works really fawntastic and tankiness especially early in the game gets the job done and allows you to skirmish very long and snowball hard. If your fed get an mejais in there and deer lord, your unstoppable. In my opinion this is the way lillia is supposed to play right now and it just feels natural an nice. A part why this build is so much better is that the current ap items (as vars mentioned) arent as good for lillia. New demonics is really bad, liandries gives no tankiness and zhonyas as a basically must have second buy is extremely good for ult plays but delays a lot of your damage. Maybe if the items change her ap build will get better but as it is the true bruiser/tank build outshines it.
If you are thinking about picking up lillia: do it! Nobody plays her because she is broken, but because she is extremely fun. I wouldnt be playing league as much anymore if she didnt exist. Zooming around the map, kiting enemys and getting clutch plays with your ult feels so satisfying, I almost always have fun playing her, even when we are losing. And her being unpopular is a big + for that, because you are almost never banned/contestet and many people dont know your damage. So good luck have fawn in your games!
That's it! She doesnt need to be changed, people just need to build her better.
I agree with build diversity is important, but i think riftmaker rush makes you low on mana, and if you were to rush frozen heart, you would have zero dmg. I used to play with a hard burst build some time ago, but they changed a lor of the items so its not viable anymore
Honestly, I used to play Lillia religiously ever since her release. Sure i mostly used her in the top lane, but she was essentially the first champion that got me to transition into being able to handle myself in the jungle. Up to the point where I made her a fallback champ to play when I doubt myself or if I just wanna play around and have fun. I was initially kinda sad when her mini rework came around but at the end of the day, I enjoyed, and still do love using Lillia today. She's been fun and that's all I ask for in league, mainly because the first rule of league is that we're not allowed to have fun, period. it's either tryhard (which gets draining for me) or get your shit kicked in (self explanatory).
If Lillia were to get any change though to improve her as a champ (presumably quality of life changes or just a small change), I'd commit that change to her base stats. Not give more AP or anything, but rather give her a bit more base health/armor/mr or tweak her growth per level. I personally think the former would be better as a change to the flat, base stat provides more stability without bulking her up too much. Might just be me though.
Wish granted, now everyone gets it
Should have went for a money wish or something cuz you used all your wishes on lillia
I honestly find success with her, she's like the type of champions that seem like no one plays, but you meet that one main and they completely destroy the game. If anything, it's good that she isn't cause it means people may forget what she does. And remember, that movement speed of hers can be pretty oppressive if she gets it rolling. To be fair, demonic embrace used to give defensive stats, which is apart of her build, and then they for some reason decided to make it dmg only. It sucks cause another defensive item besides zhonyas was just what champions like her needed, the health-to-damage change on Demonic doesn't really help much if you don't have the health to really utilize it, it's only really effective on champions like Vlad who's passive literally does the same and gives him more health, or Mord who can go tank, naturally has scaling health, and can take the stats of tanks if he kills them in his ultimate.
i love playing lillia and i love how no one plays her sadly her biggest counters are point and click abilities or right clicks because sadly they are undodgable even when you have 700 ms and to make her less squishy overall it would be great to give her extra armor and magic resist based on her movement speed .
Well with the 12.10 changes coming up, she might actually have a chance at existing
@@degeneratewithasideoftidep6795 lilia mid o.o
Lillia is my pocket pick and i cant wait to see this video, keep up the great work vars, and cant wait for your ionia video
Lillia is a kite melee mage that exists in a game with a crazy amount of engage and dashes. She was always doomed to fail unless her numbers were overtuned.
Wrong, she's not melee and that's the big problem! She's ranged and because of that she gets lower defensive stats such as armor and hp which in turn means she's way too squishy.
@@catalin-constantinailincai5124 yeah, I more meant her range on auto attacks is basically melee, but you make a good point.
I’m no master of balance, but thematically, a passive where enemy champions hitting her makes them “sleepy” and lowers their attack speed would be cool, and would make it so that in teamfights you’d go out of your way to start attacking her last
a cripple mechanic WOULD be interesting
@@okidoxb4846 riot doesnt want anti carrys in there game anymore, as prooven by vex being just a burst mage, and there efforts trying to delete shaco from the game by giving him 10 new bugs each patch
Basically what saying is she should have Enchantress passive from DOTA 2
I learned to play Jungle with her while she was offmeta at the beginning of season 11. She is and will be my main champion cause I really enjoy teaming up with her. Besides, I‘m focusing on being consistent with her and she carried me through my bad jungling. I will stand with her, despite it’s sometimes hard to have impact in the game with her.
Also remember that Yone came out just 2 weeks later after her plus the animation to tease him released 2 days after her so I feel like that is why not too many people play her. She may be inconsistent but she was basically forgotten 2 days in since Yasuo 2.0 was being teased.
That was a painful time. Everybody going "Why is Riot wasting time on this champ, give us Yone".
I honestly love Lillia’s kit. She was my first main and her kit really suits me. I’m not the biggest fan of being in the middle of a fight so hitting people and running away with the passive is just so fun
Defensively speaking Ghosting is incredibly underrated. Adding Ghosting passively to her kit and adding the ability for her to dash a short range by recasting her R during the wind-up would change her playstyle a ton.
I never found any of these problems when I played lillia. I found her movements speed to be enough to keep her alive against enemies that can't cc you for a century and also I thought her damage was a lot more than enough to make up for her lack of defensive options even in the early game.
Lillia has overtaken everyone in my champ pool as my go to jungler. Once you learn her limits and get a feel for spacing well for her Q she can be an absolute beast.
Yes! I love her so much
Exactly! It’s so fun to see people try to insta kill her but underestimate her damage and ability to dodge skill shots !
I literally got M6 Lillia in less than a weeks worth of getting S (working on my M7 but I keep doing self sac play for dragons and 5 man últs).
Either I’m a semi-competent player or she’s not as hard or as punishing people make her out to be. Yeah the only escape she has is that she runs away but she *RUNS* bro. With that much MS you should be able to run a Jax before he gets to deactivate E.
@@snowlockholmes6751 She's not particularly hard, you just can't be a braindead moron like you can on 90% of champions and just rush straight ahead and win. Lillia is far closer to Evelynn than she is to Hecarim, she has to play around teamfights, space well, predict and juke. She requires knowledge and a ton of macro skill, she's not about spamming your buttons like a madman to hit 15 skillshots, she's about predicting all that's coming her way and adapting to it.
@@dwight3555 I hit M7 Elise recently so perhaps my standards are a bit different.
Though, I don’t know how much I agree with the fact that she’s an AFK Jungler since I gank plenty before level 6 and if not a kill or dark harvest stack, someone burns a flash or a dash. I do agree she does get picked off by predator Junglers though(though Nidalee is disagreeable).
Also, 100% agreed on the fact that she’s more similar to Evelynn than Hecarim.
I think you could give her some sort of movespeed -> ap ratio so you feel less bad about buying things like FoN or DMP as tank options. She has enough damage in her kit, just no way to stick to people to apply it while not dying
True, would be cool to see her become the AP hecarim, because she really is except for not having his E charge.
My idea was to give Lillia magic resist and armour dependent on her speed. The more speed she has, the less tanky she is, the less speed the tanker.
This would allow for a lot more versatile gameplay and usage of different items and more fun :)
You would need to incentivize people still want the option of movement speed though but that could be something easy and boring like a built in celerity
i think disincentivizing gaining stacks of movement speed is a bad idea.
So every time she hits a target she gets squisher so she's punished for playing better
As a Lillia main since her release, I already know everything that will be said in this video, yet I'm curious how you will describe that "rework" of hers
True lol, lillia mains unite
Lillia mains must remain together
Every lillia main remembers when she got her first non-release skin. She has 3 skins and yone has 5😭
@@seishinx1391 She has 2 tho
I would love to see an in-depth look at AP bruisers as a class. Tanky AP has always been my favorite archetype and I feel like it's always been really underserved by items.
AHH THE SOUNDTRACKS. gj vars on choosing these cool background music :)
I can’t get mad while playing lillia.
So i play lillia.
“Time to out trot my awkwardness!”
Lillia defensive tool is her movement speed. Giving her some kind of typical beefy defense would make her less punishing, but probably broken unless they gut her speed, which is the entire reason to play the champ
Maybe the more speed she has she gains armor and mr similar to hecarim but more defensive , they’d probably have to get rid of the heal and revert her passive nerf this could possibly work
I think it would be interesting if Lilia would gain resistances based on the amount of enemy champions burning with her passive. This will likely help with her not getting one shot when she manages to do something like a flash q on 5 people.
That's a really good alternative instead of just giving her a shield, my idea was give her more resistances the less speed she has and immediately take them away once she speeds up or ults
It'd make her playstyle far more versatile
I don't think she needs a better late-game, she already scales very well, she just needs a small boost early on. For example, her Q stack movespeed going from 5 to 7% in increments of 0.5 instead of from 3 to 7 in increments of 1.
2 years later and lillia is a soloqueue monster lmao
When will the Evelynn video be released ? 🙂
I don’t think Lillia needs any adjustments, she’s in a really good spot right now. I think the biggest issue right now for her is going into meta champs like Viego, xin, and any other fighter that just closes the gap and tries to end the fight as fast as possible. Most ppl just go the default build of DH + double burn and expect to kill AD and AP champs which out range and burst her. Right now there’s not a lot of variation with lillia and her build which really just makes lillia look one dimensional despite her being able to build alternative items and do more if not the same amount of dmg in comparison to her default build. Bc of the liandry changes I build rylais 1st since it gives lillia even more power in 1v1s and early team fights. If the enemy team has alot of squishy high dmg champions build burst instead of DOT so that you have a chance. If the enemy team is full of front line champions which counter lillia build tank items like dead man’s and force of nature so that you can go into a fight and survive. The truth is ppl are to afraid to experiment Bc of how toxic this game can be and because of that things as simple as item optimization is made difficult due to anything different from her default items being “troll”
Defensive tool: Damage reduction, MR, and Armor for each person affected by Dream Laden Boughs. So, it's a defensive tool similar to Leona W, but instead of being an activated ability it depends on you affecting enemies with your passive.
thats what i was thinking!
I thought a similar thing. I proposed that enemies that are burning from her passive deal percentage reduced damage against Lillia which scales with her level. Basically, the difference is that I’m suggesting a level scaling to match her damage reduction with the current phase of the game and that instead of enemies adding up damage reduction that Lillia gets, they just all do the same amount of reduced damage against her.
I still don't understand how you're not at 500k yet, your vids are so well put together/thought out it's on par with Nickyboi, or even Necrit. Well done as always man, praying for your success.
They killed her for me with the rework
Same,now I only play her occasionally as a support (against tanky hook champs). I miss her old version so much... I played her a ton and suddenly she just disappeared... just like my Glacial Augment Neeko, 500K mastery score wasted !
@@HeckenschutzeMoH I loooooved to make fun of her shitty lvl1 clear, now i can solo a buff.
My suggestion: W should do more than just damage. It's coded as a dash, so make it a slow dash. Go over small walls, maybe. As for survivability ..... armor/mr as well has hp regen from enemies affected by P would be nice.
I really think letting her w go over walls would be a single small change that would seriously improve her in a big way. Every champion in the game can why can't lillia
@@MrMrHougland cause she has 2k movespeed already and that would just be broken
@@ACowIsHuge disagree, the range on her W is super small so you would only be able to hop super thin walls. Compare that to all the absurd mobility options other champs have that's nothing. Nice Necro btw.
When taking about melee AP champions, you forgot about our boy, Singed!
Rek'Sai and Lilia are my favourite junglers. Both super fun to play ♥
My guess is bc she is too reliant on the team to not fuck up her plau
Me: *who plays Lillia top whenever I see an immobile fighter* hehe
Update: just made a mordekaiser rage quite *evil laughter intensifies* … *cute sneeze*
Honestly she is my favorite jg, the high movement gameplay feels refreshing and lively
They could include an effect in her passiv that enemies that have been damaged by it for an extended period of time get tired and lose between 10% and 30 % MS for as long as her passiv is on them.
Additionally or instead, it could say that they deal substantial less damaged to Lilia the longer they have been damaged by her passiv and the cap scales with her R.
e g. We reduce her range to Melee so that she synergies better with Conquer and Demonics.
Her new Passiv would apply itself up to 10 times on the enemy instead of once.
It deals now 1%/1.5%/2% Max health Magic damage per stack, reduces the damage enemies deal to her by 1%/3%/5% per stack and slows them by 1%/2%/3% per stack, scaling with her R rank.
Minirework made her boring and low skill cap. Heavy damage items arent needed as she has damage to kill every squishy after ulting in a matter of seconds, im a bit out of touch with league but when i played she just built riftmaker and conq which makes her immortal if ahead. The healing made her as tanky as tanks so shes far easier and the ms reduction takes a lot of fun away removing insane speed and damage for tankynes making her a more of a extended fights fighter then hit'n run super speed nuke bomb with insane TF. Coming back to why I think shes easier, theres no need to explain why resistant/tank champions are easier then the heavy damage ones, that is obvious. Ult sleep duration nerf deleted her combos, for example u could do something like: Q > R > Zhonya > (target still asleep) W > Q if an assasin jumps on u (10:07 that was a counter for those), and the teamfights have far less potential. As lowering difficulty is not a bad thing, i think that reducing satisfaction from combos and fun, original play style to a regular fighter in exchange for lowering difficulty just for low elo is sorta frustrating.
That being said i am aware that my opinion is very arguable, maybe i was delusional the whole time i honestly like that thought
mini rework completely killed my motivation to play her agreed
I feel like a way to tackle her squishiness would be to make it so that for every enemy champ affected be dream dust, lillia gains like 5% bonus armor/MR
to answer the question at the end, a good escape tool would be to be able to blink over to wherever the seed lands. that way it can be used short distance quickly and long distance would take more time
Shes so fun to play. One of few actually well designed champs rot released last 3 years
Maybe give her a ~20% damage reduction while casting Q
So it’s more skillful than just a shield
or maybe have q interrupt dashes / invades (like Master Yi Q and Kayne R)
The thing I enjoy about Lillia is how easy she is to kill. It makes every moment playing her intense. So I don't want to see her become tanky.
I would add tenacity and slow resisit to her stacks. (Just emphasizes her skittish nature) And change her ult to a short stun where they take extra damage instead of a sleep. (Makes it less team relient)
maybe have a short stun after they wake up from the sleep
I think part of lillia's issue is not that she cant kite enemies, i still think she kites extremely well even if she doesnt have massive range, its that she can only kite enemies effectively at full stacks, meaning she has to use her entire spell rotation to start kiting at full effectiveness. this means that her defensive abilty takes time to become effective. generally this can be worked around, by engaging fights with ultimate, using the cc as a chance to get ur max stacks, and then kiting for the rest of the fight, but it makes her alot less versaitile than other skirmishers. hence her niche popularity
a dash would be nice,
deer are prone to dash away like crazy after hearing a branch get stepped on
Maybe a health regen passive that scales with how fast she’s moving
Say the name of the W Vars. *SAY IT.*
More W range/speed and W wall jump. The fact that her W can't clear terrain is very, very unhelpful, especially early game. Give Lillia a wall jump, one that works through CC and has decent range, and you have an engage/disengage that would make any skirmisher proud.
I like the use of the Sorrow Pass music from Ori and the Blind Forest.
Ori and Lillia actually have a lot in common
I would give her a passive called "Blessing of the Woods", her resistences (armor and mr) will rise with the movement speed, so she would survive a little longer in a group of enemies
Why make this video? Everyone will play my one trick now :(
I am Lillia OTP too
Haha I thought exactly the same when I saw the video!
Fixing Lillia's vulnerability seems really difficult but I think a small quality of life thing would be to make it so she constantly heals health after casting her ult which ramps based on how many people are affected and ends soon after they all wake up since, in her lore, she's putting people to sleep to heal her mother tree so I think it would be thematic
One way to fix her AND keep her relevant for end game is maybe add % damage reduction to her Q per stack that is. So like 1 point 1.2% damage reduction per stack 2points 2.4% 3 points 3% and small increase to total range. The flat reduction scales as the game goes in blocking more and the build up requirement keeps her from being crazy strong early due to cooldowns and having an increase to the range at full stacks makes her ult more reliable without making her broken the 15% reduction from damage helps her hit and run style while the small range increase lets you more reliably sleep groups of people in a team fight but also fits her kit since it makes it eaisyer to abuse her speed with out commiting
Lillia is fair, that's the problem
Lillia is my OTP. She is so fun, I wish people realized how good she is
super speedy deer girl is best champ
I am appalled at how long it took me to realise Ori and the Blind Forest music was playing during the start of this
So I am watching this very late, but I mained Lillia in season 12. I like your analysis, and I have a crazy idea that I wanted to put in writing. I think that there are 2 things riot should do.
1. bring her base speed and early speed scaling back up, to give her back that early game movement speed advantage. As of right now, it is there, but not significant enough for me not to rush tier1 boots anyways. It really hampers her identity and makes her too vulnerable early game as she can't even run away properly.
2. and this is the crazy one - make her w a conditional cleanse. Hear me out, the w already goes through slows (i.e. if you are slowed, your w will still move with normal speed) but what if you make it so that every 3rd w its a cleanse from everything but knockups? Or its a cleanse ONLY when you are full speed stacks. Something like that.
This does a couple of things: it feeds into her identity as a slippery semi-squish champ, gives her a defensive tool against stuns and roots aside from her movement speed, but also doesn't make her overpowered by giving her the same bruiser capabilities as hekarim or red kayn with insane AP ratios. (Don't nerf her damage thats one of the main trade offs with her and i would almost ask to boost it back up a bit at this time.) I think this would solve her problems, give her some marketability as a "champ with an easy-ish cleanse" without adding something to her kit that completely derails her playstyle.
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I was a shaco 1 trick for years, took a 2 year break to come back to see this champ in the game, most fun and easiest time i've had climbing in years. I find if you build a few tank items she's able to survive a bit longer, as she still does solid damage.
yes! Lillia's pulled someone over out of the dark side!
@@shieldgenerator7 hahahaha yeah quite the stark contrast, but hey I can 1 shot a useless AD carry, that’s all I care about!
@@timduncan1422 Q, R, W smite combo all day!
if you wanted to go the route of something similar to hecarim, you could increase the range of her Q and W based on movement speed up to a cap, so the faster she is the more range she has to kite with to let her dip in and out of attack range
well now with season 14 she is kinda insane
I see her so often, I literally saw her played twice yesterday alone and I only played a few games.
As my fav champ, I must say that something simple is more than enough to make her better at survivability, since in my opinion a good E is already an effective defensive tool if used right. I would add something like a knock-back on the contrary direction to where you cast your W. Like a knock back from her jump, a push with her legs or something like that, which would allow her to escape heavy engages from an enemy melee champ, and at the same time making W even more of an interesting hability, in the sense of having to learn to keep it for an offensive strike with crit or a getaway tool, depending on the situation. I hope I explained myself. In any case, I think she is so fun to play when you get a hang of her rhythm . Good vid, keep it up!
Im a singed main. His passive gives movement speed as you pass enemies and helps him stay alive. What if Lilia had the opposite effect in that when she passes enemies she makes them tired slowing them/decreasing atk speed/decreasing atk damage, or something like that. It would give her survivability, give her time to skirmish, help her team in team fights (assuming she takes the risk of running through the enemy team), and making those around her drowsy/fatigued would be very thematic. It also incentivizes her in and out dancing on the knife’s edge of danger when in fights. It would make her more dangerous to melee and tank characters specifically while keeping her vulnerable to longer ranged mages and ADCs so it would really be OP, it would just force teams to think about their compositions. Also possibly push her into top lane.
I think one thing Riot can do to Lillia is to make it so enemies that are burning from her passive deal percentage reduced damage against Lillia that scales with the enemy's level. Not only would this add obvious durability to Lillia that would keep up throughout the entire game, but it would help her stay relevant when she's behind since scaling with the enemy’s level will mean that even if she's level 6 fighting a level 8 Kha'Zix, she'll still be able to take a good amount of reduced damage to have a chance at turning things around. It also balances itself out since if she's ahead, she'll take a lower amount of reduced damage.
On her W, she becomes engulfed by a flower that makes her invulnerable then knocks back enemies to perfect distance for the slam. On her R -10% AP ratio,it dmg can proc 1/2/3 times from meaningful dmg, haste and dmging them lowers delay. E sends another seed if effected by dream dust from them.
What I would change to make her feel better ? Definetly base stats needs some touch.
Armor 30 - 100
Movement speed 340
Q
NEW EFFECT: If Lillia hits enemy champion or jungle monster with the outer edge of her Q ,she gets 2/4/6/8/10 Armor and Magic Rezist.
This effect can stack 5 times.
If she hits multiple champions at once she gets stack from each of them (So if she hits all 5 enemies she instantly stacks it).
Something like "i take 10% less dmg from champion affected by Dream Dust" could work imo.
if not to all champ affected by the passive they could add a "sweet spot" even on the E, where if she lands it "mid air" (so when not rolling on the ground) she gets a armor/MR boost or something
Whoever did the sound design on this, well done.
Give Lilia a passive on her ult that says:
After not beeing damaged by champion or turret lilia gains a charge up to 2 every 15-25 secounds. Once damaged by Champion or turret one charge is depleted and gains her 50-150 (+0,10% if her ap) health and 7-13% move speed over 2,5 secounds. One charge can only be depleted every 5 secounds.
Lilia is fixed, more fun and fair to punisch by neutral strong Champs or hard cc!
A bit late but the build I have the most success with currently is liandry’s into demonic into full tank. Allows you to have decent dmg with the triple burn and building health with the demonic give you enough damage to be a threat
I have also been doing this, follow demonics into deadmans, gargoyle, FoN/deathcap depending. I had thought her only bruiser build was rift maker but i think this is way better. Rift maker had mana issues and did less damge. Conqueror with resolve secondary and green pet and ghost and you are just a beast into the late game. Idk why this isnt her standard build for carrying
I think the reason why hecarim works so well is that you can build just divine sunderer and then basically full defensive items and still do insane damage, but if you decide to just build like liandry into full tank it doesnt work nearly as well
How I would fix:
Passive: each ability applies a Mark to the champ hitted (this doesn't increase dream dust damage), upon having 3 marks, they'll enter sleep after a 1s delay, the target is also marked and the next damaging ability, either from Lilia or a teamate, blows up the Mark and deals true damage. The enemy doesn't need to be asleep for the Mark to blow.
W: no longer has the Sweet spot. Increase the base damage slightly.
Ult: now It also applies the passive Mark, so regardless of who wakes them up, It Will deal the damage.
Put her current passive on her ultimate, they go hand in hand anyway(the heal early is negligible outside of clearing camps) and move the Q passive there+gain bonus AP based on AD thresholds. -----This lets her build certain AD items while still getting some AP, but prevents hybrid AD/AP or full tank
Change her E to a charge like panth/pyke, press : regular long range poke/scout, held : consume her MS buff stacks to create an area that grants allies inside of it bonus armor/magic resist(flat/lvl, area increases based on stacks used) and slows down enemies. ------That doesn't remove her long range ult potential or single target poke/slow, but it adds value to keep fighting for a few seconds before having to run away with the speed again. This also makes her valuable without her ultimate, opening venues to items that give less or zero haste.
Changing her passive was a bit of an oof to the early game, but that's how she is, strong late and meh before 6. An other option for E was to change it to an instant AoE that affects nearby enemies, reducing their attack speed and/or attack range and/or armor/mr and slowing them down(we all feel different in dreams...).
I love the Ori score so much. Fitting for a Lillia related video.
Couple things they could do to make lilia less polarizing would be to give her passive a similar treatment to Khazix, make her do more healing or more damage from the passive when there are less enemies affected by it. Scale it like it does double damage if it is on only one target, does 1.5 damage on two, normal on three, 3/4 on 4 and half if hitting all five. This would make her early jungle dueling a lot better and would make her teamfights more about selecting specific targets she is trying to damage, which means the enemy team would want to group more to avoid her damage but would risk her being able to land bigger ulties.
Lillia is my favorite character to play by far. Not my main (because I'm bad at her but still learning) but my god she is so fun to play. Running super fast, landing these pinpoint abilities for juicy damage, and bonking people super hard. She is hard to play but she is super satisfying when played well.
Rift maker and dead mans plate build does slap hard though
maybe a fair get off me mechanic for Lillia could be the following: when Lillia hits an enemy with the center of her w they are pushed away to the exterior range of her q. Like this u would need the skill of hitting ur w correctly and u can set the next hit with ur q as a reward, besides keeping u safer.
Lillia has a very similar design to a hero in Heroes of the Storm called Lunara. So I think the solution to make her more viable is to give her what Lunara has as her main defensive tool; Movement speed burst on demand. They can nerf her scaling movement speed and give her an extra button that allows her to get a burst of MS whenever she wants.
I am a proud deer main, as she’s such a rare pick that when she’s on the enemy team it’s almost always a main and she stomps the team
To stay in theme, they could make it so lilia´s bonus movement speed is doubled while not moving towards champions. That way lillia actually has a get off me tool
Hmm about her defensive tool, a passive that will increase her aa range on evey ability or aa hit to a set range and for limited fime feels like a cool passive that has never been interduced. Feels perfect for her play style.
I'd give her like a Samira wind wall that also has the Janna ult property of pushing people away. It would only last for 0.5, seconds or something else short, have like a 20 second cool down, and would only push people 250 units away or so. But it would be perfect for people that get right on top of her, so she could push them away right into the sweet spot range of her giant spin. I'd also lower the activation of her ult sleep. maybe down to like 1 or even 0.75 seconds.
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