Agreed. I think the reason is the audience has changed with the times. They don't appreciate someone with traditional values like the way we would back in the day. I've read someone saying they have to switch Pete focused repeat episodes off because he's too sexist, and I suspect, too macho as well. Lots of replies agreeing with this view. Odd, when they have no problem with outrageous murderers like Gray on the current show, probably because they think he is fit, but believable characters like Pete are demonised.
@@secretsymphony Gray and Pete are not comparable. Gray was an abusive villain who killed his wife and EastEnders didn’t portray him as anything but that. EastEnders never treated Pete in the same way because he wasn’t a villain but that doesn’t mean he was a nice or even good character. Pete was a sexist, racist and homophobic man who blamed his wife when she was raped, why should people appreciate a man like that? And there’s certainly not much to appreciate about him in terms of acting.
@@nyassaisleaving990 They are comparable if one gets the point of why I contrasted the two. The fact that Gray was so evil, a psychopathic wife-beater and a homicidal maniac, was what made him a fitting comparison. However, the comparison wasn't about how they were written but the audience's reaction to them. Posters swooned over Gray regardless of his character. Some of them were even turned on by his mean expressions. Yet on the same forum, posters commented that they had to turn off the TV when Pete was on because they found the character to be sexist. Early EastEnders tried to be realistic. Pete's light homophobia and racism (I can't remember that but I take your word for it) was an accurate reflection of how many straight, working-class white men viewed the world at the time. In my experience, these attitudes are still common today but EastEnders has a different audience now, and anybody with such views is immediately turned into a panto villain. Characters were complex, grounded, and flawed. Nevertheless, to say Pete blamed Kathy for getting raped is doing the character an injustice. The story was delicately handled as it explored the nuanced emotions victims of rape go through with their families. Dean's acting in these scenes is very believable. What were Pete's virtues? He believed in decency. He wanted to look after his family. He always tried to do the right thing even if he failed or went the wrong way about it. He was generous and for the most part happy-go-lucky. He was brave and would go to great lengths to defend those who he loved.
@@secretsymphony People saying they had to turn off when he came on I doubt did it because he was sexist, far more likely they just found the character annoying which could be seen as testament to the creators that they made a character so realistically horrible that people couldn’t bare to watch but could also just be that they thought he was an irrelevant irritant. I can appreciate and understand the nuances of the storyline but he still blamed Kathy for the rape and for everything that went wrong with their family afterwards even when she was trying to find a way to fix things. He was more angry Wilmott Brown had harmed *his* wife than the fact he had raped another human being and the anger and guilt he felt he took out on Kathy, like when she left him and he tried going after her with a knife. Pete tried but he wasn’t a nice man and it doesn’t surprise me that some people don’t want to watch his scenes, that doesn’t mean I think he was a bad character though because he certainly had his part to play, but after this episode he should have been disconnected from Kathy, which is eventually what happened although putting the couple back together was apparently considered, since really her character had moved on from being Kathy Beale.
@@nyassaisleaving990 Sexism and Pete's old-school alpha male style appeared to be the reasons given. I guess people of a certain persuasion might find that irritating so in that sense you're likely right too. You obviously can't stand the character, which is your right, but it detrimentally affects your judgement. I took the time to explain the character's better qualities but you ignored them. As I've already explained, Pete's attitudes were typical for the times (perhaps on the cusp of being outdated). Finer details of the story arc - like the knife incident you mentioned - I forget. I'm afraid I can't trust your interpretation based on what you have said already. I haven't watched it since the original broadcast and haven't got the inclination to do so now. The character was actually very popular during his run. He was one of the big stars of the show back in the day. If it hadn't been for behind-the-scenes problems, it's possible Pete would have become a legendary character.
Sometimes I cringe when I watch old soaps back, however, the acting in this by all 3 actors (but especially Kathy) is really very good. They're all very believable and she goes through the different stages of grief, revenge etc.
The Wilmott Brown character always fascinated me as he was so beautifully acted but also seemed so inconsistent on the part of the writers. His first appearance was as a petty, pompous area manager, then he turned out to be a real gent, especially kind to Arthur and Lofty. The rape storyline was well done and disturbing, but I have no recollection of this re-encounter. Some of the writing here is good but I think the problem is trying to put words into the mouth of a monster: it sounds contrived
@MeBenHalpin Thats true.Adam Woodyat said at the time killing off Gillian Taylforth was to re ignite the Phil/Ben FEud, but I still dont think they shud have killed her off for the sake of the tiring Ian and Phil Feud, look at characters like Kat, Bianca and Sharon all revived, Kathy was a real eastend character who could have easily been re intruduced at any point as Ians mother & phils ex Ex producer Diedrick santer said wanted to bring her back but cudnt as she was killed off
@MeBenHalpin yep for sure Sharons golden era was her first stint on the show. She was like a black widow when she returned and lost her fiesty spark, EE have defo been bring back many oldies like u say. Kat and Alfie are quite dreary and overrated these days but thats more down to the producers, agreed when u say Kat fits in with todays characters and the same with Bianca, she represents the eastend so was great when they reintroduced her. Dens return in 03 on the other hand was possibly
Kathy was one of the best EE characters. Looking at this im not sure why they killed her off screen , there was lots of mileage left in Kathy and the daft producer at the time decided it wud be interesting to have Kath killed to re ignite the boring Ian/Phil feud -very bad move EE
Wilmott Brown is such a good villain. Not just because he is a rapist. But he represents the archetype of the gentry who has nothing but utter disregard for the working class. He is actually offended Cathy doesn't consider her self privileged that he took a "liking" to her. It's probably the closest representation a real life Epstein. He is satanic in the truest sense of the word. As proud of the corruption of a marriage as he is of the destruction Cathy. Cathy is fantastic at trying to shed her status of a victim and really get her self respect back, not just from Wilmott Brown but from Pete as well. Pete represents working class male simplicity. And I dont mean that as an insult. He represents a person whose whole moral make up has been shattered. He will never comprehend the complexity of the hurt inflicted. All he can do is strike out and hopelessly claw for the reestablishment of the order that made up his life. Then there is the Joan of Arc symbolism Cathy invokes and the coat of armour. Joan of Arcs true power comes from stoically accepting her fate whilst retaining her dignity. And Cathy does the same. This is profoundly good drama.
@MeBenHalpin the worst come back ever, he ruined the the 80s legend he created and his character became a shadow of his former self. Anita Dobson was so right saying she didnt want to tarnish a great creation by returning
Brilliantly acted all around. Peter Dean doesn’t get the credit he deserves, Pete was such a believable yet iconic character.
Agreed. I think the reason is the audience has changed with the times. They don't appreciate someone with traditional values like the way we would back in the day. I've read someone saying they have to switch Pete focused repeat episodes off because he's too sexist, and I suspect, too macho as well. Lots of replies agreeing with this view. Odd, when they have no problem with outrageous murderers like Gray on the current show, probably because they think he is fit, but believable characters like Pete are demonised.
@@secretsymphony Gray and Pete are not comparable. Gray was an abusive villain who killed his wife and EastEnders didn’t portray him as anything but that. EastEnders never treated Pete in the same way because he wasn’t a villain but that doesn’t mean he was a nice or even good character. Pete was a sexist, racist and homophobic man who blamed his wife when she was raped, why should people appreciate a man like that? And there’s certainly not much to appreciate about him in terms of acting.
@@nyassaisleaving990 They are comparable if one gets the point of why I contrasted the two. The fact that Gray was so evil, a psychopathic wife-beater and a homicidal maniac, was what made him a fitting comparison. However, the comparison wasn't about how they were written but the audience's reaction to them. Posters swooned over Gray regardless of his character. Some of them were even turned on by his mean expressions. Yet on the same forum, posters commented that they had to turn off the TV when Pete was on because they found the character to be sexist.
Early EastEnders tried to be realistic. Pete's light homophobia and racism (I can't remember that but I take your word for it) was an accurate reflection of how many straight, working-class white men viewed the world at the time. In my experience, these attitudes are still common today but EastEnders has a different audience now, and anybody with such views is immediately turned into a panto villain. Characters were complex, grounded, and flawed. Nevertheless, to say Pete blamed Kathy for getting raped is doing the character an injustice. The story was delicately handled as it explored the nuanced emotions victims of rape go through with their families. Dean's acting in these scenes is very believable.
What were Pete's virtues? He believed in decency. He wanted to look after his family. He always tried to do the right thing even if he failed or went the wrong way about it. He was generous and for the most part happy-go-lucky. He was brave and would go to great lengths to defend those who he loved.
@@secretsymphony People saying they had to turn off when he came on I doubt did it because he was sexist, far more likely they just found the character annoying which could be seen as testament to the creators that they made a character so realistically horrible that people couldn’t bare to watch but could also just be that they thought he was an irrelevant irritant. I can appreciate and understand the nuances of the storyline but he still blamed Kathy for the rape and for everything that went wrong with their family afterwards even when she was trying to find a way to fix things. He was more angry Wilmott Brown had harmed *his* wife than the fact he had raped another human being and the anger and guilt he felt he took out on Kathy, like when she left him and he tried going after her with a knife. Pete tried but he wasn’t a nice man and it doesn’t surprise me that some people don’t want to watch his scenes, that doesn’t mean I think he was a bad character though because he certainly had his part to play, but after this episode he should have been disconnected from Kathy, which is eventually what happened although putting the couple back together was apparently considered, since really her character had moved on from being Kathy Beale.
@@nyassaisleaving990 Sexism and Pete's old-school alpha male style appeared to be the reasons given. I guess people of a certain persuasion might find that irritating so in that sense you're likely right too. You obviously can't stand the character, which is your right, but it detrimentally affects your judgement. I took the time to explain the character's better qualities but you ignored them. As I've already explained, Pete's attitudes were typical for the times (perhaps on the cusp of being outdated). Finer details of the story arc - like the knife incident you mentioned - I forget. I'm afraid I can't trust your interpretation based on what you have said already. I haven't watched it since the original broadcast and haven't got the inclination to do so now. The character was actually very popular during his run. He was one of the big stars of the show back in the day. If it hadn't been for behind-the-scenes problems, it's possible Pete would have become a legendary character.
Sometimes I cringe when I watch old soaps back, however, the acting in this by all 3 actors (but especially Kathy) is really very good.
They're all very believable and she goes through the different stages of grief, revenge etc.
The soundtrack being played through an old tin can I miss those days!
Authentic EastEnd accents and slang. Nowadays nobody says "belt up" on the show
jonwiley Mick Carter?
I said shut up- ahahahaha classic Kathy!!
Wilmott Braaahhhhhhhhhhhhnnn.
The Wilmott Brown character always fascinated me as he was so beautifully acted but also seemed so inconsistent on the part of the writers. His first appearance was as a petty, pompous area manager, then he turned out to be a real gent, especially kind to Arthur and Lofty. The rape storyline was well done and disturbing, but I have no recollection of this re-encounter. Some of the writing here is good but I think the problem is trying to put words into the mouth of a monster: it sounds contrived
Marillionboy He's back now
@Crev Rath
Your right kathy was amazing EE was stupid to kill her off !
She's alive !!! Lol
That was a pretend death which was made to look real
Incidentally do you have the episodes covering his trial? I remember the power of those at the time.
Took a while for the ident to disappear and the episode to start didn't it?
James reminds me of The Late Terry Lester (Jack Abbott #1) on The Young & The Restless who died of a Heart Attack due to his HIV Status.
Back when EE was good.
@MeBenHalpin Thats true.Adam Woodyat said at the time killing off Gillian Taylforth was to re ignite the Phil/Ben FEud, but I still dont think they shud have killed her off for the sake of the tiring Ian and Phil Feud, look at characters like Kat, Bianca and Sharon all revived, Kathy was a real eastend character who could have easily been re intruduced at any point as Ians mother & phils ex Ex producer Diedrick santer said wanted to bring her back but cudnt as she was killed off
Crev Rath she is back though!!
James Wilmott Brown has not changed a bit except of course all the wrinkles
THIS SIERIES DELT WITH SOME HEAVY,TABOO ISSUES.
What year was this?
1992
Keza Kweza 1992 I think
@MeBenHalpin yep for sure Sharons golden era was her first stint on the show. She was like a black widow when she returned and lost her fiesty spark, EE have defo been bring back many oldies like u say. Kat and Alfie are quite dreary and overrated these days but thats more down to the producers, agreed when u say Kat fits in with todays characters and the same with Bianca, she represents the eastend so was great when they reintroduced her. Dens return in 03 on the other hand was possibly
Kathy was one of the best EE characters. Looking at this im not sure why they killed her off screen , there was lots of mileage left in Kathy and the daft producer at the time decided it wud be interesting to have Kath killed to re ignite the boring Ian/Phil feud -very bad move EE
Crev Rath she is still alive
Wilmott Brown is such a good villain. Not just because he is a rapist. But he represents the archetype of the gentry who has nothing but utter disregard for the working class. He is actually offended Cathy doesn't consider her self privileged that he took a "liking" to her. It's probably the closest representation a real life Epstein. He is satanic in the truest sense of the word. As proud of the corruption of a marriage as he is of the destruction Cathy.
Cathy is fantastic at trying to shed her status of a victim and really get her self respect back, not just from Wilmott Brown but from Pete as well.
Pete represents working class male simplicity. And I dont mean that as an insult. He represents a person whose whole moral make up has been shattered. He will never comprehend the complexity of the hurt inflicted. All he can do is strike out and hopelessly claw for the reestablishment of the order that made up his life.
Then there is the Joan of Arc symbolism Cathy invokes and the coat of armour. Joan of Arcs true power comes from stoically accepting her fate whilst retaining her dignity. And Cathy does the same.
This is profoundly good drama.
@MeBenHalpin the worst come back ever, he ruined the the 80s legend he created and his character became a shadow of his former self. Anita Dobson was so right saying she didnt want to tarnish a great creation by returning
Leslie Grantham died with little or no money so he never made a big earner out of his return..
Slag