Shubh says caste is not determined by birth
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2022
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Actually, it is explicitly mentioned it is by birth in Mahabharata Striparva in an exchange between Krishna with Gandhara where Krishna explains a dwijo women (twice born) bears children who practice austerity and Shudra women bears children to add number to the servitors (slaves to the upper caste) and Vaishya women bear children to adds to number of cattle herders and princess (Kshatriya) bring children to be slaughtered (killed in battle).
In the same Mahabharata in Shanti Parva there is an entire section that clearly lists out rules about intra-caste & inter-caste marriages. It also outlines the resulting caste & profession of children. For example - a Brahmin father and Brahmin mother would produce babies who are also Brahmin, a Kshatriya father and Shudra mother would produce babies who are Ugra Shudra (inferior Shudra).
Also, Chandogya Upanishad says that those who did good work in this world [in their past life] attain a good birth accordingly. They are born as a brāhmin, a kṣatriya, or a vaiśya. But those who did bad work in this world [in their past life] attain a bad birth, accordingly, being born as a dog, a pig, or as a casteless person.
Even the first people with caste also were by birth from Brahma - Brahmin was born from the mouth, Kshatriya from the arms, Vaishya from the thighs, and Sudra from the calves.
There are other texts that describe 'gunas' of each of the caste, that those does not explicitly say caste is by birth and caste apologists points to those texts saying, "caste is not by birth".
In the Shanti parv Krishna means that because if a child is born in a shudra household then it is most likely he will grow in an environment that will cause him to be a shudra to grow up that is how it is Krishna talks about qualities it not necessary that that child born in a shudra household will definitely become a shudra and yes it is not explicitly mentioned in scriptures that caste is not defined by birth because in those times caste being determined by birth was not a concept so yeah I hope I made it clear have a great day
And please keep in mind everywhere in Mahabharata u read the word Brahmin it means that the person has the qualities of a Brahmin which are - kindness,mercy, compassion for all beings no hate for anyone no bad habits like any kind of drugs or adultery and following dharma that's a Brahmin so yeah if a child is born to a father like that and if he is taught by his father in that environment he will become like his father but let's say if he is born to a Brahmin(again Brahmin is anyone who has above mentioned qualities) but he is raised up by a shudra a shudra is any person who has following qualities - living for the satisfaction of carnal pleasures, selfishness, cheating others, causing harm to others for personal gain,doing adharma so if a child is raised in such a n environment he will most likely become a shudra for example - prahlad was the son of Hrinyakashyapu who was a demon but was raised in his first years of life by Narad Muni due to which he became a Brahmin so yeah environment matters but ofc mostly the child is raised by biological parents so yeaahhhhh I hope I cleared that doubt
@@maharishinayak4884 What work do you do for a living? I do not want detail, but just the profession. May I know?
@@Subh8081 I am student I don't do anything for living
@@maharishinayak4884 After you pass out, will you be giving joining the army or police the first preference for your employment? Is that common in your line of study?
This is the power of rationality and logical reasoning. If done properly (like in this case), it can convince even (hardcore or moderate) religious apologists and transform society into a much better one. Amazing Vimoh, truly amazing. The way you maintain your tone, voice, discipline and accurately simplistic articulation is wonderful and inspiring. This is how a discussion should be done.
This is the power of half information
Bhagavad Gita is part of Mahabharata (Bhisma parva , chapters : 25 - 42) .
In the same Mahabharata , in Striparva chapter 26 ,
Krishna, the self-claimed godman himself, says to Gandhara , when she was crying as her sons died in the war :
"... A woman of the regenerate class bears children for the practice of austerities; the cow brings forth offspring for bearing burdens; the mare brings forth her young for acquiring speed of motion; the Shudra woman bears a child for adding to the number of servitors; the Vaishya woman for adding to the number of keepers of cattle. A princess, however, like thee, brings forth sons for being slaughtered! ... "
".. तपॊ ऽरथीयं बराह्मणी धत्त गर्भं; गौर वॊढारं धावितारं तुरंगी
शूद्रा दासं पशुपालं तु वैश्या; वधार्थीयं तवद्विधा राजपुत्री .."
This clearly shows that according to krishna in gita (the same one in the whole mahabharata) , not only people become servants, "by birth" , BUT ALSO will be born to those of the same caste .
Book written by brahmins in name of krushna 😂😂
Bhagwad Gita is a irrational book..
According to Hindus , Bhagwad gita is everything shown in Tv show Ramayana . But Bhagwad Gita is far from that , which Hindus don't want to accept
@@startrooper3502that's all every hindu says😂
Definitely
Yes I tried it reading myself after hearing so many hyped about it being scientific, which When I started reading I was disgusted by almost every page has the mention of Parmatma.
All religious texts are blocks of stupidity and imagination like living in a jail
Take a bow man, fantastic work.
Moye Moye
You know where it should have came as background music 😂
Only Vimoh knows to make a point in few words. This channel will reach great hights if he continues with patience
Jai Bhim
Was I the only one who thought Shubh the artist/singer was on Vimoh Live?😂
If Vimoh keeps up the great work, maybe he will come on stream!
btw, No Love by Shubh is a proper banger🔥
He's a shrivastav, what else did you expect? LOL
Now you are contradicting yourself if you are vimoh's viewer who agreed on his points
@@Hellspawn_kun didn't get you. Pls elaborate
@Ajinkya Katta he's a shrivastava... then his name and identity are unchangeable, and hence, your perception towards his intelligence and reasoning will also be unchangeable... why not focus on his arguments rather than his name??
@@Hellspawn_kun tried focusing on his argument. He was all over the place. Secondly my comment was kind of sarcastic. Don't take it literally. Have a good day.
@@AJK666007This is why I hate these bhimtas even though I am fed up of Hindus caste system and irrationality
But these guys seriously hated people with uc Hindu surname
They would talk shit abt them that's why nobody has a soft point olfor these few bhimtas and whole Ambedkar movement was limited to few castes
Gen and obc guys hate them to core
Well vedas rigveda gives definition of four varna, yajurveda mentions definition of chandal and nishadha which is proof of birth based varna system and discrimination, mahabharat has many stories about birth based varna system ( check what " sut" in sutputra karna means) , bhagwat Gita talks about paap yoni etc and says one must do work of varna he was born into no matter how bad he was at it, and never do work of other varna no matter how good he is at it, ....with this context all Gita is actually trying to implement birth based varna system and discrimination out of which caste system originated. So caste discrimination is a religious problem that needs to be addressed.
Why should anyone be assigned varna/work at his birth?? 😂😂 this is the main problem which eventually paves the way for discrimination whether you called it Varnism or Castism.
@@dreamadventure8220+1
Anybody interested in the caste question should do themselves a favour and read Suraj Yengde. Also Ambedkar's works are easily available. In essence caste is hegemony reinforced through heirarchies.
What about karn
Karn ke gun to 'Kshatriya' wale hi the. Phir bhi Drapadi swayamvar me Shreekrishna ke saamne hi use neecha dikhaya gya tha.
& What 'GUNA' that Dhrutrastra had to be called a 'Kshatriya'?
Nice and calm interaction here. Great job 👍
Even if we take innate qualities according to birth..That is also meaningless as a single human being can be all varnas in his/her life , also a person being all 4 varna he/she can be more than 4 varna.
Varnas doesn't make any sense now as it did before.
Though Indians use it as hierarchy and to show superiority over others.
@vimoh.
Your opinion on this.
Agree. Caste is horrific and utterly stupid. Hindus need to start seeing it for what it is - an oppressive system of discrimination.
@@vimohlive Varnashram is there Hinduism exists Varnashram goes Hinduism goes off ideas like Karma, Aatma, Guru parampara, Rituals, Gunas and Ishvar is there only to Justify this Varnashram. If Varnashram goes then the other things also goes. So no Hinduism. That's the thing people should understand.
@@carvakalokayata Maybe this is one of the reason today that people saying "Hindu Khatre Me Hai". Its an appeal to 'Emotions' than 'Reasons'. Because whole house of cards falls apart when if someone sit-down and think about it rationally. Same for every religion.
ACCORDING TO GITA, CASTE IS BASED ON 'IN BORN' QUALITY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN INNATE QUALITY, THAT MEAS "BY BIRTH".
Phenomenal
Ps: gonna be a bit long. You know actually the thing is, people really feel like not letting go off their tradition and culture as it is also beautiful to some extent. But then also, there are actually some things that are oppressive. I want to ask- is it important to keep the culture as we all know it is for the diversity it has got to provide. And also, Why do we feel we need to save our culture (even if oppressive)? Is it actually needed or just something people get attached to? Why do people get attached? Honestly, I believe diversity and preserving culture and tradition is important. Simply because it tells a lot about history and it's also different and beautiful. But then if some practices are oppressive then obviously I will discard it. But will there be any culture left it we remove oppression? What's more important and why?
Who makes culture?? It's us ,the people...why not to make a new culture now so that our descendants would be proud of us...and we'll not ask them to preserve it if they don't find it compatible in the future...we have to give them a culture where one thing is constant i.e. change is the law of universe...so do whatever you want to do...for the welfare of humanity
"Among them, those who did good work in this world [in their past life] attain a good birth accordingly. They are born as a brāhmin, a kṣatriya, or a vaiśya. But those who did bad work in this world [in their past life] attain a bad birth accordingly, being born as a dog, a pig, or as a casteless person." - Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.7
By the way this one 👍🏽✊🏽 agreed.
No, Gunaas can be different in terms of heredity. The Gunaas of parent and Gunaas of Child can and cannot be same right...and when we say by birth, in caste, we mean what we get from parents and not by our Gunas (in modern society unlike the BG)
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the basic thing is Gunas can be changed by hardwork, I don't know why they even come to argue without doing there homework.
👌❤️🙏
Vimoh needs to be put in jail for dismantling this dude up man
Can be from Brahmins to Shudras of the same gotra.
Matlab duniya jhooth thi! Haddiya!
no shudra have become brahmin in last 20 years in 21st century by doing educational work 😂😂
Its by birth
Qualities can be changed a kshatriya like vishwamitra can become Brahmin a Brahmin like Lord Parshuram can become kshatriya so yeah caste is not determined by birth and it is no where written in any scriptures that it is determined by birth u can have a healthy discussion with me if u want to
Manusmriti?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂