Why Doc Martens Are So Popular.
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
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Dr. Martens 1460's Boot: fave.co/3kHgKiN
Dr. Martens 1461's Shoe: fave.co/3De8SLM
Solovair Monkey Boots: us.nps-solovair.com/products/...
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Oh Doc Martens...Dr. Martens. Makers of some of the worlds most famous boots! Today we are looking at the leather 1460's, the vegan 1461's and a pair of Solovair boots! Are they good quality? Are the regular ones cool? Are they the best black boots? What's what!
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The Iron Snail is a men’s fashion vlog starring a young man named Michael and featuring a snail no bigger than a quarter. The two are set on taking over the world of fashion by creating a clothing line to end all clothing lines. Until then, we’re here to tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about the best clothing out there, from the highest quality raw denim jeans to the warmest jacket to the sturdiest boots…the Iron Snail has got you covered. (written by Taylor, though Michael is sometimes known to talk about himself in the third person… xoxo) - Jak na to + styl
Excellent take on these! They’re iconic as hell and comfy too. Your videos always give me a good laugh too bro!
Collab when?
@@sebastienalbouy4471 Would love to see it!
@@sebastienalbouy4471 I'd collab with The Iron Snail any day if he cares to slum it with me!
My two favorite CZcamsrs crossing over holly shit!!
@@sebastienalbouy4471 Yesss this needs to happen
Thanks for the shoutout man! Love your content
Hey right back at you!!
So we got Carl and Weston in the replies!!!! My three favorite CZcamsrs in one place 🙂
The Solovair greasy leather is a full grain leather, and is much better quality than the smooth leather on both the Dr Martens and the Solovair hi-shine. Solovair also offer a re-sole service.
I
I wore them most of the way through secondary school (high school). I never found them that comfortable but they were all the fashion in the early 90s. Even when they eventually moulded you your feet they were still uncomfortable.
I then wore them for a few years for work (airport). They had padded ankles and steel toecaps. Not particularly comfortable either.
Also, the soles were lethal on wet paving as well. And got worse as the grips wore and the sole material hardened.
They lasted well though. I don’t think I would bother buying a pair these days. All the discomfort and less of the quality. Maybe a brown pair sometime. The black ones with yellow stitching carry so many connotations this side of the pond (I’m Irish). People associate them either with skinheads, football hooligans, their father’s work boots or what they wore as a teenager. They weren’t as all pervasive in the States.
interesting read!
@catalyst_99 It wasn’t the sole that was uncomfortable. I don’t mind a hard footbed and the steel toe ones did have a soft insole. The upper was uncomfortable. It never became comfortable for walking in the way that most other boots I’ve owned did. Maybe they were fine for someone walking
less but doing 15-20km per day they were just nasty.
Found this guy for the first time. I love him. His experience with the 1461s spoke to me on a deeper level.
Love your videos man. Super quirky, creative, funny, informative and well shot / scripted. You’ll blow up
Thank you!
Recently found your channel and I’m loving it. Keep up the great work man. Love watching your videos.
Thanks my friend!
Your editing is so on point 👌
I've had the 1460 Vintage series, those were some nice boots.
I also have/had other England made versions that went through daily hell of outdoor work, and actually held up great.
I heard they do hold up! Even when they crack (if they do) they aren't too bad!
@@TheIronSnail that is definitely true, the leather feels like really good quality to me and repairs are doable.
Bro, your cinematography is advancing so well!
thank you!
btw...music editing blew my mind. great work
I actually showed your videos to a woman I was on a first date with because I couldn't describe how I wish I was creative at video shooting/editing/etc; so I said, "Like him!" She loved them!
The Iron Snail, he'll give you his takes on various somewhat obscure male fashion trends, and get you laid.
BOOM! My job is done here
Solovair are great to deal with. I've hammered mine and they just keep going. Can be resoled locally or at the factory and they do various finishes. I've had one pair of boots separate but superglued them - still going years later. The rest perfect.
Yeah they are lovely!
I think docs have a body of a boot but the feeling of a sneaker and that’s why. I love them
Here in the UK DM's are associated with subcultures, and are just the iconic boot for most people of a certain age. The 1460 is named after the date of release, it was first released on the 1/4/1960, the 1461 shoe was released a year later. I have a couple of pair of Made In England DM's one pair are quite new. The other pair are around 15 years old, and when I polish them they look like new (except for the sole which is slanted at the heel due to the way I walk). I have Redwing Iron Rangers and Moc Toes, Timberland and various others. Yet in my opinion no boot looks as good with a pair of jeans as Doc Martens.
I wouldn't pay full price though, hunt around. And depending on the model you can usually find them for 25% to 50% off.
Oh fascinating info!!
amazing they became so popular considering the inventor was a Nazi.
I just bought my first 1461 Nappa leather. I wear it everyday, even at work and the shoe is so comfortable, I don't get any blister at all.
The cut in the middle really got me 😅 But honestly, I absolutely like that your videos are fast paced and weird stuctured✌
Was going to comment the same thing haha way more interesting to watch than the typical "review" videos where it's just a person sitting at a desk inside
Bahahaha ty!
First video in real-time. I just discovered your channel 9 days ago. What a journey... probably more so for you as you are living it. I watched it on a 6yr old Macbook. I appreciate your love of Cape Cod and your advice re. Men's fashion. I've made a list of things you recommended. First is that green Noah sweater...I look good in green...and then a pair of white sneakers. Anyway, it's been a pleasure and I wanted to say hello. On topic though... I broke in a pair of Dr. Marten's when I was 23. And while I occasionally flirt with buying them my feet will never forget. Also, this comment feels like too much, and reading it over confirms it.
This comment is not too much! It's just enough! Also yes I LOVE CAPE COD!
Dr. Martens are my go to boots. I love the round toebox shape and iconic look they have. Also the fact they aren't too fancy means that I don't mind wearing them regardless of the situation. As you mentioned in the video, cracking is my biggest issue with them. It's frustrating because even if I take good care of them and use shoe trees they seem to always crack. I was going to look out for a more natural finish leather for my next pair.
I'd love to hear your opinion on Paraboot (think you mentioned them in a video) and Lee, especially their 101 line.
I did! And oh yes I love Lee! I'll do a vid on them soon(ish!)
I live in Australia - get some Dubbin and put it on every week No problems mate!!
I have the Solovair dealer boots in gaucho brown. I wear them everyday, extremely comfortable! Whenever I eventually run the sole down, I'm going to have Solovair resole them with the more combat style sole.
Oh so cool!
Solovair are basically original dr martens, made by the original company, factory, people, same lasts, better leather quality etc
AMERICANS combative sole
Worth noting that shoes with big soles and no shanks can make your arch feel like it's ripping in half all of a sudden and then the pain stays for hours or days. There is no cost too high for proper arch support.
I love your video and just subscribed to you here and on Instagram!! Love your personality and editing!! Lol!! Love the “get the dumb ones”😻😻😻
I got the English 1460s in the 1461 English you showed near the end. You're getting what you pay for that's limited edition Horween Cavalier leather. I just got them a few months ago I anticipate them lasting a good 10-15 years. All they need is a dose of conditioner here and there.
I have 6 pairs of Doc Martens not made in England 1460's. I rotate them and wear them every day 10 to 14 hours a day for work and on my days off. I broke them in juicing them with mink oil for a couple days before wearing them and mink oil them as needed for maintenance and water protection. I keep them very clean brushing the uppers and lowers of any debris after every use. Very little wear on the soles over the last 2 years. Super comfortable. The only other shoes I wear are Birkenstock clogs when at home exclusively. My feet love them both.
I like your video its high quality so i share with my friends
needed this appreciate
ofc! TY!
Great video! I actually just snagged my 1st dr martens a month back (gently pre-loved online) and then had to snag another...! They have quickly turned into my favorite boots! Blessings to you- Sommer
In the UK you can get your DMs resoled at Timpson with official soles, they have some agreement with Doc Martens.
Ooo this is fascinating!
A few years ago DM offered For Life 1460 and 1461 in an unfinished leather with a replacement warranty. I bought 2 pairs of the 1460 in black and oxblood but haven’t had to use the warranty replacement yet.
Ugh I remember those days. I'm jealous!
I'm so glad you did a video on Dr martens, such an interesting boot with so much cultural significance
thank yoU!
i love your thumbnails, they really pop
Thank you!
My first boots were from Gabor. They are easy to break and pretty comfortable.
Will you consider reviewing the 1461 pascal virginia, please? The leather is so soft with no breaking in, I feel :) thanks for the review and tests. This video is awesome
The Reverso looks sweet!!
Thank you!
I live in Panama (the country) where humidity is probably the most nightmare-ish thing you can possibly imagine and I have owned and worn both the normal docs and the MIEs ones over the past decade. The problem with the excessive finish of the normal docs (and vegan ones too, since a friend of mine used to have them) is that they are not really resistant to any difficult weather whatsoever: lots of flaking, bubbling and awful resistance. None of my normal docs could survive more than 6 months in this weather, my friend's either. Although, another friend of mine somehow has managed to have theirs with minimal flaking over the past 4 years too, idk how they did that but worth noting.
Made in England tho!!!! my 1461s have been the shoes I have worn almost daily since 2015, and the sole is getting kinda stupid rn so I have to buy a new pair since repairs with those are also impossible but considering they have lasted 7 years and the uppers are still fantastic, I consider them my best purchase by a mile. The 1460s MIE I own have seen less wear since i got them in early 2017 but they been with me during the most terrible rain storms that you can imagine the tropic is capable of producing, plus several hikings in very unfortunate territories and they have held up fantastically as well. I usually just clean them, apply the wonder balsam bullshit thingy once a year and the shoes hold up so so good.
I lived in Panama for five years. If I was single, it's very possible I would have gone back to stay.
Oh MIE 1461's sound amazing! Also oh god I hate humidity so maybe Panama is not the place for me
The reason I really like solovair is cuz of their 6 eyelet boot. Since I’m pretty short they look much more proportionate than the 1460s would on me. (Plus better leather and resoluble)
My first pair of Docs was a brown pair and I think I picked them as they where not high glossed finished and not know anything about leather it was a happy mistake as they have aged so well and are soft and supple. My black chelsea boots after 5 years of every day wear they finish came off but no cracking. It is funny becacasue going to art school and working at one everyone has Docs and mentions your life is going to be horrible until they break in and honestly my feet never heart wearing them or bled or blistered. I have always been interested in the the oxfords and glad to see you touch on them and I think a Solovair pair is a next purchase.
You are the chosen one with tough feet!
Great video. Was wondering what watch you are wearing in the video?
I’ve switched to Solovair they’re much better than the mie docs, and had no issues with my 4 pairs, their ‘lifestyle’ or ‘premium’ slimmer rubber sole is smarter but the classic soles r a bit more comfy and they can be resoled. Also the greased/gaucho/pebbled leather is lovely quality and ages beautifully. Astronauts, and lifestyle monkey boots are my faves. Their brogues are nice quality too.
Loake are now doing Solovair/DM esk rubber soled boots, which I expect are excellent as (mie) loake make some lovely lovely shoes and boots, next level, and there’s Grensons for commando soled boots
I love mine too! Also I'll check out Loake
I was saying the papa johns joke in my head and when you actually said it I started dying
BOOM! I was hoping someone would get it
I love Doc Martens I buy the Made in England ones also I love Solovair and Gripfast
I don’t care about boots that much, but this is an awesome video. You have tremendous talent. Keep it up!
Thank you!!
Future video on wide/big pants in general and the ones you were wearing in this vid??
YUP!
Solovair is true to their origins by remaining proudly English made and the quality of the materials are good for the price point!
That being said you can’t compare them to Tricker’s, Church’s, etc since they are a few times the price for plenty of fair reasons.
I need to look into Trickers and Churchs!
Currently wearing my solovair monkey boots (minus your mentioned defects lol) and completely recommend
Love them!
Great video and review of the DM range! Thank you!
Anybody know why DM calls their derby shoes oxfords? Very strange!
I have a pair of plain 1460’s that I purchased lightly used on eBay in 2017( I was new to docs and didn’t want to pay full price just in case). Long story short prior to the 1460 I wore Timberlands. Since I got the 1460 I got rid of my timberlands and the one pair of 1460 has been my go to boot!
My 1460 have some serious mileage on them now in 2022, but they are still going strong and the leather has broken in pretty nicely. I have not experienced any flaking or any problems at all with mine. It did take forever for them to break in tho! Maybe I got lucky.
Those sound awesome and it's cool to hear their lifespan!
Screw Tims!
The made in england doc marten have much higher quality leather! I intially had a hard time breaking them until visiting the store. They sell heel pads, double layer socks and the best tip of all was to rub them with wonder balsam and a hair dryer. Now the leather is soft like butter. The suede is also a great option for avoiding breaking in the boots. The made in englands also go on sale in the fall/winter.
Age 12 ,saved pocket money here in the Uk for ages ( 1972) got a par of brown Doc boots..sole split in a fortnight
True story. When I was much much younger while at a swimming pool in Michigan, in winter, my locker was broken into and all my clothes stolen, except my DM’s. Not sure what that says about the criminals ethics or possibly their faith in “made in England” goods. Loved those shoes until my feet grew too big for them 😁
Bahahaha that's the only review you've ever needed
Maybe they weren't their size.
Been wearing Docs since the 80s and I thought I'd hate this vid, but....you nailed it. ;)
Hey ty!
You can get DMs re-soled,. You just take them to any branch of Timsons! I love my Solovair though. I have over 500 pairs of DMs and other similar boots. Tredair were the best!
Sorry to hear the quality has gone down. Owned several pair of DM’s back in the 19 hundreds, and they were great.
I burst out laughing at Papa John’s 😆
Where did you got those pants? Great video by the way
Dickies! and ty!
I second others with the JLC Reverso admiration. It looks great on you, and I would love to see a review of it! Also would love to hear your thoughts on duoface vs monoface reversos (i.e. if the duoface is a cool complication that adds versatility, or if it goes too much against the original heritage of the reverso and removes the ability for unique customization of the caseback). Are you going to engrave yours, and if so, with what?
I also think Doc Martens is at an interesting turning point in their history. They used to represent a pretty niche grunge/punk counter culture and now they are a mainstream icon and very trendy. I kind of wonder how long the hype train will last or if Doc Martens in the 2020s will be a huge fad like Adidas Ultraboost in the mid 2010s.
I am going to engrave mine (going to engrave it with something from Denmark)! I wonder if Docs will ever go back out or if they'll stay a "trendy boot" for a while
been debating getting a new pair of docs for weeks. now i must
SHANE MUST!
How's sizing on the solovairs? I have a made in England doc and had to size down 1, should I size down for solovairs as well?
What kind of pants though? The color is so beautiful.
I bought two pairs of new vintage boots in London, made in the 1990s. “British boot company” store name in London
Solovair has been known for QC issues lately. You're definitely not the only one with these complaints!
Interesting to note! Looking into that
I bought 1461’s at the Doc store in town.
Got home and thought the left looked a little diff from the right. Took them back and they realised they had put left shoe from Singapore factory and right shoe from a different country of manufacture. Foot that price point I was surprised. Got a refund.
I ordered the 1460’s from a black and white catalog with no photo from England in 1988 for 50$. They said it would take 6 weeks. I went back to the shoe repair at 6 weeks to the day (my birthday). The cobbler said they arrived that morning. I couldn’t believe how comfortable they were. They had cork midsoles and glove leather insoles but white floss. I jumped and bounced in them all the way home. Best overall experience in shoes/boots I’ve ever had. Back then there was no heel just a unifies sole and I giant cross stamped into the side of the leather. They molded perfectly to my feet and lasted on and on. They were flawless
Did you just say you bought yours in 1988?
I learned today that Doc Martins are no longer for me… I had a pair 20 plus years ago that always squeaked when I walked and wondered if I should give it another shot? Thanks for making this video, saved me some $. I think I’m gonna hold out for the Blacksmith or the Iron Ranger instead.
Definitely save for the Iron Ranger they are literally quadruple or more the quality in all areas and can be resoled for a decade. Mine are incredible.
Love my burnt copper iron rangers. I wear 10 in most shoes but got the rangers in a wide 9. Great fit
get some Tricker's if you want some quality English boots
I think Solovair are really v good for the money (‘lifestyle’ monkey boot have slim soles and lovely leather that are tricker esk, their astronaut boots in greased/gaucho leather is thick and lovely too), you could also consider loakes - they do some excellent smarter styles but also rubber soled like Solovair/DMs, loakes offer excellent traditional boot making, slightly cheaper than grenson but still great
Hey you're welcome! Red Wings are amazing!
How is the sizing with Solovair compared to Doc Marten. I’ve been told to size down for Doc
I got some 10 year old corrected grain docs if you want to see what beat up docs look like
A small point of correction. Dr Martens don’t make Oxford shoes (which have different lace closure) - those are Derby (or Gibson) shoes. I’m from the UK and like many others I used to wear Doc Martens (or DMs as we used to call them), to school and continued to wear them through adulthood. There’s no doubt today’s product is inferior to what they were producing as late as the 1990s. They used to have better leather and included a shank. The current corrected grain smooth leather is not very good. Even the Made in England shoes do not have good leather. It is prone to splitting, even if it has been looked after (a problem with many high shine leathers). I think DMs are overpriced for what they are.
Over here it is possible to get DMs resoled if one goes to the right cobbler. However, for many it wouldn’t be cost-effective. Nevertheless, I suspect there might be a business opportunity for a US cobbler to import the DM soles and offer a repair service.
Solovair used to offer cheaper work wear DM boots and shoes (they were popular with police officers), that had a cheap plastic lining. Nowadays, perhaps in response to the perceived lesser quality of what used to be R Gibbs DMs, they offer better shoes. However, many of their shoes use high shine leather that is little better than on regular DMs. They do have some with better leather. Here in the UK it is possible to get Solovair shoes with grey stitching instead of the yellow you see on the boots you featured.
I do still have some cherry red DM shoes and boots. I paid £50 ($63) for the shoes and £28 ($35) for the boots. At that price they are just about okay, but at full price I don’t think they offer good value at all.
Ty for the correction and the info!!
Those Solovair boots are in fact what we called Monkey Boots, originally imported from eastern Europe they first became popular with people who worked on scafolding because of their very soft Rubber soles. These soles were flat so didn't need a shank but,brotherdid they wear out quickly. But ,never mind, they were dirt cheap so you Just bought another pair. They were very confortable and looked great. Strangly enough the leather looked much like stuff used on DM’s. Available in Black or Brown. These were the only cool shoes available in the UK in the 1970’s that were really cheap.
I couldn't focus on anything but the flashes of the JLC.
OOOWEEE!
The tall boots have a sort of military look to them, minus the yellow stitching.
"I said yes. I lied." Lol.
Bahahaha
It's hard for me to go vegan leather when there are so many options for rubber or canvas boots. Sure, they are less do all universal boots like leather and leather adjacent, but I really like having that specialization as well.
Yup agreed here!
I’m working my way through your back catalog in my spare time and just saw this video. I bought a pair of the MIE Docs a few years ago and the quality was terrible. They cracked and looked awful within months despite meticulous care. I could wear them to work any more. What good is a low price if they wear out within months? You would save a lot of money buying a more expensive boot .
I have Made in England 1460 and 1461 I got for a decent discount from END. Best boots in their price bracket.
Yeah they are sweet!!
This is the kind of video I'd even watch if it wasn't made by you 👍
Ryan Gosling has a pair of black Dr. Martens that are perfectly weathered. They are the ones were the leather ist still brown underneath the black finish and it shows through just right
Hey thank you!! Ill have to go look at his boots now
What if i "repaired" my solovairs with yellow thread
Ive had the chelsea boots for both brand and man Solovair just arent wide enough to wear for me. I could feel the sides of the sole while wearing them and it caused insane blisters. And couldnt be broken in to fix that. The Docs did require break in, but never got that sort of problem with them
Quick question if you don't mind. Was looing into the solovair's as well and also have wide feet so I'm a tad bit worried, how wide are your feet?
@@Riful not sure exactly but Docs are typically fine. While most Nikes cause issues. It's been a while and the Doc chelseas didn't blisters but they weren't as comfortable as docs with the regular last
@@Riful I have a foot that is D width and a foot that is E width. I am a woman with a shorter but wider foot (men's 6)so that makes it much harder. The D felt narrow in the derby boot which is one of their widest styles. The E felt unbearable. My foot was spreading off the sole so I knew no breaking in would fix it. Really wanted solovairs to work for me but had to go back to made in asia unisex docs because they are wider. I would say the derby boot solovairs are probably a C width while the docs are a D width, at least in my experience and sizing. You can size up for width but I wasn't willing to have a solovair that was too loose
I find the 1460s don't fit me well. So, I bought the Combs and they are great.
You don't break-in Doc Martens, they break your feet in.
TRUE
cool video, what happened to the jeans you were going to wear until you ran out?
Still have them! Just gave them a little break
@@TheIronSnail Everyone deserves a break, are you going to do a review on how she wore it?
I love this guys malcolm vibes
lovin that JLC, what's the refence number on that?
Thanks!! 270.84.10
I gotta get me some of those black monkey boots...
What are those brown pants?
Mate are you wearing a jlc reverso? If so then that’s a fucking class watch
Dig my Solovair 11-eye Derbt boots.
Faaaaaantastic boots!
Haha you deserve a subscription, that's all I can say ❤
For $30 more you can get a pair of Thursday Boot Captains. Also Solovair all the way if you want Doc styled boots.
Yeah Thursdays are maybe 3x as quality. Real veg tanned leather goodyear welt and midsole, cork filler, 1.6mm full grain chrome tanned upper, 1.2mm glove leather liner, steel shank, vibram soles on some boots, kevlar laces, easily resolable. Its a no-brainer imo. Doc’s are all about fashion. My Diplomats and Dukes are keeping up with my Redwing Iron Rangers suprisingly well!
somehow they are still great boots for a person who needs oil resistance. I just dont understand why there are not more of the boots have oil resistance out of the box
I have a pair of Solovair Monkey Boots and they look a bit different than yours. My boots came with flat laces, the stitching is grey and the tab is black with "Solovair" in almost a neon green. I bought the from the British Boot Company in Camden Town so I'm 100% sure they're legit.
They are okay, I prefer my premium Timberlands for Canadian winters due to primaloft insulation & waterproof nubuck and Thursday boots for summer. For $30 more you get a nice 1.6mm full grain chrome tanned leather upper and 1.2mm glove leather lining, 360 classic goodyear welt, cork filling, veg tanned leather midsole and welt, steel shank, vibram sole etc. I think people like Doc’s because of the history & iconic look of the last and yellow welt, they are also super easy to break in due to the fibreboard and air filled outsole. Still I’d go with thursday for $30 more. It comes down to style & comfort vs longevity. As you say its very hard to resole Doc’s while Thursdays are simple at any cobbler. I enjoy my Diplomat moc toes and Duke chelseas both in black chrome. For my main boots I splurged and got black harness Redwing Iron Rangers which are worth every penny. Looking at splurging even more and getting some White’s or Nick’s next with my tax return money, haha.
White's or Nicks will be crazy! I'm also going to review Timberlands soon!
@@TheIronSnail Nice!!! They are surprisingly good for mass produced boots. Better can be purchased for the price but for winter in Canada it’s the best way. Awesome videos man its great seeing you grow!
@@TheIronSnail And yes I’m still deciding which. But they’re both spokane made and 99% pure leather. I’ve seen 40+ year old pairs be restored on youtube. Per wear its very worth it I think.
These boots cost as much as my leather jacket. But my jacket is going to last me years and years. It keeps me warm when it's cold. I will never buy these boots at the price they are at. $150 for some boots that might fall apart in 6 months is just too much. I can find better boots for half the price of Docs.
What's the jacket 👀
$200 now bro. Plus taxes
Same question, what jacket is that
@@schizotypeseraph Daniel Smart. I got it on Amazon. It was a life saver when I was riding in the back of a pickup truck on a cold January day. It's big enough that I can pull inside of it to keep warm. Size 10XL. I can layer up underneath it on really cold days too.
Look into Solovair boots then, basically Doc's big brother
You got a Reverso? When did this happen? 😲
!!!! its a secret and Ill never tell (about a month ago)
One thing that I don’t get is why people complain that they hurt their feet but I’ve never gotten blisters from my boots
Bro, Try to get the made in england Version , its night a day diff , great Video by the way
I will!! Ty!
Nice pants, what are those?
What is the ‘Dr Marten break in procedure’?
Walk walk walk walk! Other people will go on their tip toes a lot to bend them, or heat them up then bend them, etc. There are a ton of different ways! I just plan on walking until my feet fall off though
First thing everyone should do,learn how to lace them the right way and tie them properly.Looks better and fully comfortable.
I miss the old sole treads.
The 1461 almost drove me crazy too. I love these shoes, but I still get blisters after 6 months if I wear the wrong socks.
"1461s broke me" BRO MINE LITERALLY JUST CAME IN THE MAIL SHIT