World's Best DCT. Porsche PDK. How it works.......Part 2........
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Full description of how the worlds' best double clutch transmission works, the Porsche PDK. Part 2 of 2
Video Contents:
0:00 Introduction
0:54 Lubrication and Cooling
8:35 Electrics
10:32 Valve Body
Link to donate:
paypal.me/Richodonate
Link to download valve body Photoshop file.
drive.google.com/drive/folder... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Do I own a Porsche? No. Did I still watch and learn something cool? Yes, I did.
What a fantastic video, I worked for Porsche as a technician for 10 years and still found this video very interesting and helpful.
Absolute pleasure to watch thank you.
You deserve PhDs in mechanical engineering, video production and education for this.
Well done! I can imagine the time you spent but I appreciate it.
the valve body is like a integrated circuit of hydraulics and the solenoids are like transistors, pressure regulators are amplifiers ... i am truly amazed how complex it is and that it actually works.
Man! I am lost for words. Just finished watching both parts of this. Videos like this are the ones that need a million subscribers and views. This is a master class Jeff. Truly appreciate it.
My 981 is my daily driver. Passing 78,000 miles now. It's good to know the 'mystery' of these marvelous PDK's is finally being revealed. I'm chaning trans fluids every 40,000 miles. Shooting for 250,000 miles 🤣
I have 196k miles on my 987.2 cayman s pdk. Still running great!
dude - you deserve a price for that series. Hats off!
...umm...did you mean "prize"?
Jeff, IMHO you deserve an award for this pair of videos!! Big trophy...huge, shiny, heavy,tall, room-filling!! Great stuff!
Glad I drive a manual 😂 I dont think I could work on one of these PDKs, but they are absolute marvels and fascinating to see how it all works.
This is the best PDK description I have ever seen in CZcams. Thank you so much for the content. Your video really helped me understand the way the PDK transmission works, and I now can really plan on how to maintain this transmission.
Well done old chap! In my half century of driving Fords to Ferraris I try to keep an open mind about learning new things and though initially daunted by the length of these videos I’ve found them captivating from end to end and learned a whole new slew of insights, even on things I thought were simple and I fully understood. You have an excellent way of explaining and demonstrating through graphics and practicals that very few on CZcams have been able to achieve, a true talent!😀👍🏎
Kind words. Much appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to put this together, Jeff! My dad and I have really enjoyed the technical but easy to follow information about this mysterious box living inside my new-to-me 991.1 C2. We're long time BMW DIYers and brand new to Porsche ownership.
At this very moment I'm in the lobby of a renown indie after having dropped the car off for its first oil change under my ownership. It's a 2013 with 28k miles. I think I'm going to opt to wait to do the full PDK service (clutch/gear oil/pan/filter) until I hit 30k miles unless you suggest otherwise. No PDK symptoms aside from clunky shift into 1st gear which I'm told is normal. Otherwise shifts like a dream.
Thanks again! Cheers from the US.
I wouldn't worry about the pan and filter. It's a waste of money and the majority of the cost. It's going to be the subject of a video in the future. Regular replacement of the fluids, especially the clutch fluid is key. I do it every 10,000 km, which is definitely more than required, but when doing it myself it's dirt cheap insurance. I'd be doing it more than every 30,000 miles.
@@jeffrichardsoncardiy I really appreciate such a timely reply. I'll schedule a more immediate fluid change then having denied the service earlier today. Nice to have someone make this decision for me as there's virtually zero consistent PDK service information online.
Never seen such a well provided porsche content like the one in this channel.
Much appretiation jeff:)
Excellent illustrative lesson on the excellent PDK. Chalk it up to the Italians for creating the modern Electro/Hydraulic actuated gearbox. Although my old F355 F1 box does not use a twin clutch (single), nor is wet (dry). Fortunately (for it wears faster) it is relatively easy to replace the clutch as it’s at the end of the gearbox. Fortunately too, it is otherwise a robust unit. It’s also much slower to shift, although still faster than the equivalent manual. Throttle blipping by one’s own foot, makes it all the more smoother experience.
Oh and the F1 unit does not use a parking pawl, nor does the DCT in my Alfa 4c. I would also submit that the American Engineered Tremic DCT that has been supplied to ford (GT500) and C8 Covette is every bit as good as this PDK unit. Extremely robust unit. And of course let’s not forget Ferrari within multi iterations remains a leader in this field.
Excellent follow-up to the first video, with first class explanation and visuals. This video goes to show why the electro-hydraulic control functions of the DCT/PDK box took so many decades to come to fruition. Kudos on the production of these videos. As a Porsche owner and automotive engineer, they were a pleasure to watch 👍
Kind words. Thanks for the feedback.
Amazing set of videos... I've wondered how automatic transmissions work for years & with your help, it's beginning to make sense. Thank you!!
This was the best video on CZcams when it comes to dct transmissions
Been hyped for this video since part 1. Thanks again for ur awesome presentation in both parts
thank you for the time you spent to make this video its awesome
OMG! Hy head hurts so bad now! 😵 Don't think I would go the DIY route on my 981 PDK box...🤔 Great vid! 👍🏻
Bet you would 😂
Great video, and part 1. The valve block strikes me as like a 2 layer printed circuit board with conducting through-holes. I imagine the layout could have been done on PCB layout CAD software and auto-routed. I think this routing would have been an easy job for a PCB engineer. Far more layers are used nowadays in PCBs.
I knew the basics, but after seeing this, I take my head off to the engineers who designed all this.
I meant “hat” not “head” haha.
This is a truly excellent production. Thank you for the effort!
Amazing tutorial!
Fascinating, well presented description of this PDK transmission. Thanks.
This is such a terrific series. I can't imagine the time and dedication invested here but truly appreciate it!
Hell Jeff, what you do is absolutely amazing. Thank you for that. As a suggestion (maybe you are already planning on it) to have a section for common failures and fixes. I see the valves and position sensor as the most possible issues. This can save people a lot of money.
What a feat of reverse engineering! This is very impressive and helpful work. Thank you for taking the time to do the work and make the video.
Jeff you're the man, every car guy's buddy!
Fantastic work, you deserve a medal or two
Very well done and I’m really happy about finding your channel. I‘m a ZF employed student and this transmission has a special place in the museum in the ZF Headquarters, but until now, nobody had really explained to me how it worked. So thank you and keep it up!
感恩了解，謝謝分享！
my brain melted!
A really interesting, well explained video. Thanks very much for the hours of work involved.
Amazing
A short word of appreciation for creating these 2 fascinating videos sir :) For sure am recommending this to some fellow automotive engineering geeks. Enjoyed watching it thoroughly, cheers!
Brilliant set of videos Jeff - thanks 😄
What a great pair of videos!! (Part 1 and Part 2.) Thank you Jeff for posting these two videos.
Amazing! God work explaining a PDK!
Top nerdiness marks tonight Jeff😂😂😂
Amazing content, thank you for taking time to explain and post 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Well done!
This is awesome and I have a manual Cayman !
I hope you can get your hands on the 8 gear pdk2 from a 911 at some point. It has a lot of changes in the oil pressure system. Like injection cooling of the gears and also can lower and higher the pressure from the oil pump for fuel efficiency or speed. The 911 version, also of PDK1, can have a variable differential lock, unlike the boxter one where the locking mechanism is at a fixed rate.
Only problem is it's much more difficult to take apart or rebuild it without a large amount of special equipment.
The explanation of fluid flow & solenoid position is like current flow and switch position in a 3 (or more)-way electric circuit ON STEROIDS. 😂
Pretty amazing engineering.
I can't imagine what it takes to purge the air from the valve body on first fill.
It's not such a big deal. With the pump working, the part associated with pressure, lube and cooling immediately fills. There is an oil fill mode in the diagnostic software that then activates the clutches and shift rods to completely fill everything.
+ this vid has made me Subscribe+ don’t think I’m a nerd tho lol just love knowing how mechanic things operate🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Madness, how many people did it take to figur this out, design and prototype, etc?
Knowing the principle is one thing but if your prototype does what you want is another.
The mechanical basis isn't that complex, but using springs, sync rings, valves, etc, etc & software.
The whole choreography?
This reminds me, so much of a tipical farm tractor transmission. They also have a button or paddle to push or pull, to shift. Than again, ZF builds transmissions and front axles for farm tractors. The clutch and valve body parts are very similar. 🙄
Great content, thanks so much. I would just offer than the duty cycle at 13:46 is perhaps better described as DC = a/(a+b) x 100
I hate it when I make a fundamental mistake like that in a video I can't take back. Dammit. Thanks for pointing it out.
I have seen valves that take the limited power of a solenoid to open a valve that has flow/pressure requirements that the solenoid can't handle. Since the force needed for a solenoid to move the valve is proportional to the size of the piston it is pushing and or pulling, a small piston is used to allow a small flow of fluid that then pushes open a larger valve to get the flow required. That seems simpler than having a system that needs 2 different pressures.
Might be worth adding that the "Split Ring" Synchromesh was patented in 1947 by a certain Dr. Ing. Ferdinand Porsche...
awesome Jeff- would be cool to see how it compares to BMW's getrag DCT. After driving both, both have pros and cons
Great analysis and explanation. I love my 981 and find the PDK to be superb. Hoping to get many more kms out of mine before having to delve into the guts of the beast for repairs. At least it looks like solenoids and electrics are the most likely failure points.
[rubbing his head] no...it...it was that grey thingy that is the failure point... 9:09 ...the distance sensor
Changing the fluid is a cheap way of ensuring the metal from the gears suspended in the oil gets removed and stays off the magnets that show you what gear you are in.
I read an article by Paul Van Valkenburg on the origin of the automatic transmission. Still can't tell how they work without advanced education. Great job.
thx for this video
Q:
how hot can oil in PDK get ?
Awesome videos, it's very interesting.
What about Valve Body. It's like a two layer PCB, not that tricky as it looks. For example, a PC motherboard has up to 12 layers and is way more complicated.
Quick question: the PWM of the electrical signals to the valves, I’m assuming this is at a high frequency and the coil damps the effect to open the valve partially and in proportion to the mark space ratio?
And not that the bale is flickering up and down in mechanical motion matching the mark space ratio?
And many many thanks for these two amazing videos. I’m totally your target audience, not a true mechanic just interest to learn a bit more, and your detail diagrams complexity and pace was absolutely perfect for me.
Lord is that thing complicated!
The best part is if you get a seal or washer the wrong way around or a blockage due to debris it won't work. You won't have just that gear or area not working as its all pressure linked. You won't just have a rattle or noise that you would if say a 2nd gear syncro is worn in a manual gearbox. Triple the hp and the clutch basket explodes. You should ask Dodson Motorsport to send you a lunched one
Great video! Many thanks for detailed explanation. I wonder how it bleed out air pockets during oil changes.
I didn't show them in the video, but the valve body has a few one way valves that hold fluid in place so the whole system is primed for the next time it's started. So a simple drain and fill doesn't require any bleeding. If there are any air pockets, they simply get pushed out the moment the engine is started and there is fluid flow.
@@jeffrichardsoncardiy - Thanks for the explanation
You're hired! Seriously, having seen the design I start to believe the transmission is actually quite cheap. :)
I'm sure production costs are reasonable once you're making a decent enough volume of them.
But they have to amortize the up front expense of designing and engineering that whole mess. I'm quite certain a million ZF personnel gave their lives for the cause, and paying out their families must have cost trillions of dollars.
My head hurts : )
That's quite a long way to say, "It's magic."
The Macan also has a 7 speed PDK.
Terrific content - thank you so much for doing this! Based on the design, how much stress do you think there is on the transmission using the paddles to up and down shift? On my BMW, my dealer says manual shifting stresses the transmission and for optimal longevity, it should be allowed to shift itself. What do you think?
Sounds like a load of crap to me. Why would the physical transmission care whether a shift was commanded by the computer or by the driver? It gets the same signal to shift either way.
I have no idea if it makes any difference, but I drive in manual mode all the time. If you want it to last, change the fluids regularly, especially the clutch fluid, and get it up to operating temp before you flog it. For me this is far more important.
Does the manual 718 transmission have this same type of fluid cooling system/transmission oil cooler?
Yes, both the 981 and 718 manual transmission have the gear oil cooler.
The magic is to run 2-3 gears at the same RPM (by gear setting angle) and allow the gearbox within millisecods of the pre-syncronised gears to overtake the next gear. No synchro time, as the gears shafts are still running synchron - did i get it right?
There can only ever be two gears selected, one on each shaft. The preselection occurs on the non engaged clutch/shaft, and hence synchros used for gear engagement, well before the clutch is changed over to select that gear.
I have a question, are you able to change a 981 gt4 Porsche into a pdk from manual ?
Me personally, no. A huge skill set would be required to do this, hardware and a lot of coding.
Question is my pdk in Panamera has 130k and don’t think ever serviced. Should I service now or don’t touch it? That is the wuestion
yes. Absolutely service it.
most sports cars? Perhaps in Europe and Australia, but the manual take rate was substantially higher in the United States
Yeah, 75-80% of all cars sold globally is "most". In the US it may be a much closer split, but it's still majority PDK.
I’m keen to learn, but I’m off to lie down in a darkened room.
Why is it that in all transmissions solenoids dump the pressure outside of valve body when they are turned off why they can't just cut the flow of oil to the valves?
I expect it's because it's easier to control the output pressure.
Just as I finish watching part 1, this gets published. Coincidence or aliens?
Jeff is an alien.
How reliable are these transmissions?
Very reliable. If something is going to fail, the distance sensor is by far the most likely, followed by the speed sensor. Tracking the car regularly will wear out the clutch pack. The problem is there is so little information about them, few spares, and very few shops who do the repairs, so a failure can really leave owners in a bind.
It's my understanding that Porsche has an "Electronic Locking Differential". Can you show how that works? I've also heard the differential design is an improvement on the Torsen design, can you speak to how that works?
The elec diff is only on the 911. Never had my hands on one. There is a separate small valve body that lives behind the clutch that controls the diff clutch pack from what I understand. But that's as much as I know.
@@jeffrichardsoncardiy It's still a Wavetrack diff in the 981 isn't it? I have heard that those are similar to the Torsen diff design, I don't quite understand how the torque bias works in those, can you take one apart and talk about it. I'm guessing that is a part that normally doesn't need replacement parts unless the whole thing goes bad.
@@cdw3423 I don't have one to pull apart. I'm not a workshop. Just a bloke who was donated a transmission and decided to put as much info about it I could. Of note, the torsen diff is a completely different design and looks nothing like a standard differential.
@@jeffrichardsoncardiy Sorry I thought the diff was inside that transmission, was it removed, or does it have a different type?
@@cdw3423 The transmission does have a diff, just an standard open differential and not limited slip. I showed removal of this in Part 1 of the two videos. Not much point in pulling it apart as it's exactly the same as any other open differential, and you can find many an explanation of this online. The mechanical LSD was an option on these cars but I've never had the chance to look at one.
What tha hell did i just watch?? who came up with this stuff?? Damn
Nice work breaking it down. I'm not a fan of PDK as I'm a Driver and love control of manual that is so easy and cheap to service on your own.. ;-D
But I would also note that the PDK or other versions are lineier, so you don't have your hand resting on the lever pressing the syncros or a red mist shift.
So using a low pressure fluid valve to contol the position of a second valve to distribute high pressure fluid is similar to an electrical relay or contactor?
Yes. Very much the same.