I still really like Connors idea from the last TT where each boy has to watch an anime (could be short ones like 12 ep or 1 season) then talk about it. Come on Joey, you can fit One in a month 😆
Not with all the content we get on the man channel. And MOC is so full with manga that he already does. Finally we don't exactly know what Joey does in his private life.
The perfect example of that saying is the character Joffrey in Game of Thrones, he was the most hatable character in the entire show for quite a while and SPOILERS when he died in season 4 many people (including me) cheered and was happy with his demise. A hatable character does not mean that they are a bad character
Yup, a hateable character is not a badly written character, and on a similar note an intentionally annoying character isn't less annoying or a good character just because it's intentional.
yea this episode feels kind of empty ish, i miss the gritty, intense arguements with the folks on twitter along with the video effects that give it that fun entertaining fighting effect to the video, this doesnt feel like a "lets fight" but more of a "Lets talk"
@@PrimeSpork oh you know, it's like when your friends discover your henti collections and they're not even remotely angry. Just "Dude, I think it's time to talk". Lets fight = angry, need explanation Lets talk = disappointed, also need explanation
It's refreshing to watch you being super chill when talking about anime. Honestly, I prefer these kind of videos to the ones you upload in your main channel.
I think a bad main character or character in general is one who we are supposed to see one way (good, bad etc.), but the story fails to convey that. For example: We are supposed to like Umuru, but her actions in the story make us dislike her.
@@itsjustvin7630 You misunderstand, he's talking about the writer writing a character thats supposed to be one way, but acts in a way the contradicts that. People liking Light even though he's evill is not a contradiction of character. It would however be contradictory if Light was portrayed as the peak of human morality while doing the things he does in the show
Every time I see or read answers for this question, people tend to overwhelmingly shit on characters that boil down to being not very assertive, openly emotional or just overall not fitting into the expectations most people have for a shounen protagonist. Personally, I think it’s a shame b/c i feel like the madokas and shinjis of the world add a bit of more nuance to their respective series that people otherwise miss b/c they always want Kamina as a mc. These characters should be allowed to express their sadness and they aren’t any less weak for it. Of course you’re free to not like them on a personal level but I just think it’s worth acknowledging what role or theme they represent in the larger story as a whole.
In the romance side, I feel this a lot with Kazuya Kinoshita from Rent-a-Girlfriend. He gets too much shit from the people expecting that he become some "chad" (a word I do not understand at all) like Ishigami from Kaguya-sama or something. Like, I get it you (the Kazuya haters) don't like him. Stick to Ishigami and Hachiman for your romance fantasies but Kazuya adds more than those self-insert characters.
Yes exactly, I feel the same for Yuki from Future Diary... most people don't realise that if his character wasn't designed like that, it wouldn't even highlight Yuno or other characters around him and wouldn't make the situation as much realistic as they can... considering the setting...
Thank you, there's so many takes about Deku being a bad protagonist because he cries too much or some dumb shit like that or he doesn't act like other protagonists, like I'm not saying there's nothing to critize him for but this feels so shallow.
I think this episode should be titled 'Teaching People the Difference between a Bad Character and a Character That is Intentionally Written to be Hated by You'
My pick would be Sakura. She's actually _supposed_ to be a main character but isn't treated like one at all, so there's a red flag. There's also the fact her entire identity is based around loving a terrorist and actually chooses her feelings for him over her whole damn village, for no actual reason. Theres no reason for her to have such a strong connection to Sasuke. It's not only until much later in the show when she's basically forced to deny her feelings thanks to plot device that she actually does something, she might have failed but she tried. I thought that was a turning point but then she's just a damsel in distress again and sidelined because the boys gotta play. She's just a plot device for pretty much the entire runtime of Naruto and Shippuden. It sucks, she had potential but it was wasted because Kishimoto can't write a good female character. All the women in Naruto are poorly written and are just plot devices at best. If they're not, they're just standing there doing nothing and being useless while the dudes go ham and blow everything up. Since this is main characters and Sakura was meant to be a main character, I'm naming her but it extends to the entire female cast of Naruto.
I mean honestly I literally wanted to garotte most of narutos main cast outside of kakashi.. although admittedly I didn't get super far sooo maybe naruto and sasuke get less annoying later on but oh my GOD are they unlikable brats for a while and it makes it really hard for me to actually care about anything bad happening to them or root for them at all.. which is kinda a flaw in terms of the typical shonen style honestly when the series wants you to obviously care about them
@@OutOfTheShadows1 well they are kids and like 10 or 12 years old in Naruto, so annoying behaviour is to be expected. But they’re definitely much more mature in Shippuden, and it definitely gets better
@@OutOfTheShadows1 yeah I totally get that, I started the show when I was around their age so it was okay, not sure if I’d be able to bear it as an adult lol
@@NA-yq4pe Yeee, maybe if I was closer to their age when I tried it that woulda helped lol.. just kinda hard to place myself into that mindset again, but in terms of shonen I'd probably either finally try Dai no Daiboukens reboot or MHA before I do Naruto
To be fair Issei gets some significant bullshit time and again (he fucking died), and that death was too vivid for him that he was subconsciously at war with his own perversion.
The constant scenes of him just monologuing about how pretty Mizuhara is gets tiresome when he does it every goddamn chapter lmao, plus that's legitimately all he thinks of her is that she's pretty, it kinda pictures the mangaka being kind of creepy when all the main character does most of the time is describing how sexy and pretty the heroine is.
Louise from the Familiar of Zero. Constantly abuses Saito, never takes responsibility for her actions, Shifts blame to Saito, and somehow Saito chooses her by the end, when he could have chosen any of the other girls, who actually gave a damn about him. Plus, as Robyn from Anime America once said: "We don't want the spoiled brat getting what she wants!"
@@haziqwhz I watched it for the fantasy aspect. And I was partially hoping Saito would hook up with one of the nicer girls, such as Siesta, Henrietta, or Tiffa, but NOPE!!!
@@tmk5567 I liked the arc when him and rui were properly dating and the manga finally had a consistent non flip floppy romance that lasted a long time and the arc afterwards with the romance actually taking a backseat to show off their character development and growth into adults and then the final arc happened and I ended up wanting to jump off a bridge
@@53ddddateme Honestly I don't think I've ever wanted o strangle a fictional character more(which is saying a lot) then when Natsuo got back with Hina at the end
You know, i really respect Joey trying to build this second Channel as something separated from the main one. Now he can explore more interesting topics non-anime related, and i'm really excited for what's to come. Keep it up man!
I think this episode should be titled 'Teaching People the Difference between a Bad Character and a Character That is Intentionally Written to be Hated by You'
And like, the fact that he started out wearing his sneakers with his hero costume (which he doesn't anymore). If that was a list of reasons he's annoyed by Deku, it'd be totally valid, but there's so many objectively value-neutral things on it that it's kinda. A bad argument for why he's a bad character. (don't even get me started on the "Deku uses a whip, and Indiana Jones and Hitler used whips, so. :/" Had to stifle my laughter at that bit cuz I didn't want my family to ask questions XD
Some of these points are so stupid. - Like how he says the quirk wasn't his but you could say that about All Might, Nana and then even later Shigaraki. Who people love and praise in the show. Lots of characters get their powers from outside sources and aren't born with them like Eren, Ken Kaneki, Lelouch etc. If he wants to argue how he got his power, that's fine but just the fact he got it from someone else isn't a problem. - He also seemed to have forgotten Deku got into UA barely because of his rescue points and somehow thinks All Might bribed UA to get him in? Did you also think Kakashi bribed to get Naruto in the second part of the chunin exam? The two (Deku and Naruto) only made it in because of a technicality. - For some reason, Deku saving kids is a problem to this guy. He mentions this separately like three different times. - His costume he drew when he was fifteen is dumb. Wow what a shocker. My OC drawings looked like crap too when I was a kid. Also, the costume was trying to mimic All Might which he seemed to gloss over and thinks it's supposed to be an animal. - Training with All Might is apparently creepy. Hear that Korosensei, Jiraiya, Franken Stein, Master Roshi, Izumi? Ya'll are creeps for teaching kids. And he somehow thinks Bakugou is his best friend which....when has Deku ever said that? They were childhood friends but not BFF's. - Complains that his shoes are the same.... - Compares Deku to Indiana Jones and Hitler because he can use a whip. O-o - Deku hurting himself is a way to make sure he's not super OP right off the bat. That's why he has broken bones and gets injured a lot. Now, don't get me wrong. Deku is FAR from my favorite character in MHA. I find most of the adults more enjoyable than the students other than Todoroki. I personally have issues with Deku when it comes to later arcs like how fast he's getting these new quirks, his arc with him against Class 1A felt rushed, his connections to the other vestiges just feels hollow and I don't care for how quickly he changed Lady Nagant's perspective. There's plenty to criticize about Deku but these points are some of least of Deku's issues as an MC.
If I had to pick anyone it would be Mikado from Durarara. Most of the characters in Durarara are interesting and fun characters to enjoy. But with most of Mikado scenes I really couldn't get into him. He felt more like a tool for the narrative rather than an actual well developed character. I think Celty would have been the better option for the MC. She has a more memorable design, an interesting premise, good conflict throughout the story and feels more fleshed out.
I love Durarara (pfp reveals all) but Mikado def felt like a weaker aspect. The anime tries to point out about him being normal but he's got a big secret in that he created the Dollars. And that was supposed to be a big deal. But literally every character in the show is like that. They seem normal but they have something strange or quirky about them. And as the MC of the show, his unique aspect wasn't that interesting or fleshed out. Even Anri and Masaomi had more going for them and would have made better MC's.
This section is weird, cause mikado isn't the MC. Cause DRRR doesn't have an mc, its an ensemble cast. I think people think he is cause he looks the most stereotypically like one. Also there to hide that he's a sociopath in the novels, but yeah
strange. i like him because of that. that secret actually blows my mind. well keep in mind that durara is the first time i saw anime that has "unique" story telling
I have some suggestions: - Something regarding music (albums, bands etc.) - Antagonists in media - Something you like that everyone else hates or vice versa - Your favorite underground show/manga/whateve
@@TheOutsider1115 Well, I know fantano but why shouldn't Joey be allowed to do the same thing? Especially if it's only for one video. I'd say the viewers of both channels are also pretty different, so obviously this will result in different music taste and different hot takes
Not that I didn't want to join in on the fun but I just couldn't think of a MC I really hated. Not saying any of the ones mention here I liked either but couldn't think of one (If I can even remember) where a MC brought down the show for me. Maybe next topic
I've always agreed that Madoka is probably the least interesting of the gang, despite it being my favourite show, but one day I realised that her character type would work better in other genres. In other words, she's a slice of life character living out fantasy trauma, and so she grew on me slightly.
The thing with Madoka is that, by the premise of the show, she isn't allowed to do anything because Homura will intervene in her behalf. That one of the things episode 10 showed, that without Homura's input Madoka is much more assertive and does whatever she needs to. Or at least that's how I saw it after multiple watchings.
It’s BECAUSE she’s so incorruptible and pure that the conflict in the show gets resolved, so….eh I’ll give it a pass. I did like her final decision and confrontation with her mom at the end, and how she actually chose to take things into her own hands. That was a good character moment
I believe people did not pay any attention to her struggles, seeing everything falling apart and trying to sort out how to fix it. At one point, thinking she would save Sayaka she nearly kills her, so its not true that she doesnt do anything during the entire show. Also, we see in the other timelines that an experienced Madoka was even the leader of the group; confident and everything. She was just cautious and undecisive about her wish in the main timeline, cause she realized she had everything she really wanted and did not want to lose it (her friends and family) and because of all the weird stuff happening with Homura and Kyubei. Thats why she didnt fuck up like the others and ended up saving everyone. People just find interesting action and deaths, but if you see deeper, Madoka is a great character for how much she is willing to do for everyone and how responsible she is despite of her age (and the limits the show represents because of that).
@@Mati303s yea I agree; many don't find her as interesting because her character is about emotional hardship while the others, still, had a lot of that too, but were also the fighters of the series. (Ironically her emotional arc is was makes the series so human and impactful.) However, I stand by what I said: she would work excellently, if not better, in a slice of life show. There were moments where her cutesy side (dare I say moe??) shon through, and especially so in the manga. She really belongs in a school club, not in the hot mess she found herself in. But then again, that's precisely why she makes a good protagonist: BECAUSE she doesn't belong.
@@styxthistle497 I agree. What you are comenting relates to the show being a deconstruction of the magical girl genre. Madoka is the perfect representation of someone who should be in a cheery world, but somehow ended up in a dark one. It makes sense, i just wanted to stop the Madoka slander, cause like you said, it works BECAUSE of that fact
I would argue that characters that are designed to be hated and disliked and fulfill that exact role are pretty good characters. They do what they are supposed to do, and if they are assholes in a convincing fashion and burn into the readers/watchers minds then they did excactly what they were supposed to do. Hence there are great antagonists, extremely dislikable characters but therefore being very recognisable and easily rememberable.
You guys mentioned her in a trash taste episode once. Grant had such a visceral reaction that I had to search up the intro. Now I listen to it on a daily bases despite it killing me slowly. Thanks.
What intro are you talking about, I might’ve missed the context from the video but I honestly have no clue who you’re talking about based on what Garnt said. Also which episode of trash taste?
I hope you would add more pictures of the characters that are talked about , so that the people who don't remember animes/characters could get the "oh thats who you mean" feeling. Glad you brought the serries back
I would like to retaliate the point made by that person that complained about Madoka's character because I do remember thinking about something that justified her having that kind of boring and uninspiring behaviour. I cant recall the whole argument but I think my opinion was that the show tried to show how different people would react to the situation they were in, having thoughtful and collective characters like Homura, selfish ones like Kyouko, altruistic ones like sayaka, (kinda) cocky ones like Mami and, you guessed it, coward ones like Madoka. Every character is different and their reactions and what happens to them are all different. Sure, the author could have chosen a more likable personality for our main girl, because I do think she was kinda useless and not my favorite character at all, but her importance is still there I guess. Idk, maybe I'm coping too much, I watched Madoka a long time ago, maybe I'll get back to this comment after rewatching it, but do take what I said with a grain of salt.
agree w u and imo madoka does have an assertive side to her, its just that her showing character n acting up keeps getting her killed lol. so the useless madoka we see is mostly from homura interveneing n not letting her do anything
I wouldnt call her coward, since she confronted everything at the end. Theres also the other timelines. She was just wary and didnt wanna lose everything, cause her family and friends were everything to her. Thats why she struggled so much to find a wish and then even more when she knew the cost of it. The entire show she tried to find out how to help everyone and ended up doing it. I think its superficial to see it like that. She was the only one that took the right choices most of the time. it was just difficult for her to protect everyone since she was just a child and didnt understand the cosmic shit that was happening around her, so it took time. I agree about the perspective thing, but Madoka's wasnt cowardice, it was something among the lines of prudence, since she was a spectator and didnt act impulsively. About Sayaka, she wasnt really altruistic, the whole point of her character was that she expected something in return with helping her friend. She expected love from him. That was a preview of what would come to be with Homura, and how love can really be egoist and intoxicating.
Thorfinn is one of the greatest main character written I've seen so far in anime/manga. Even in his early days as a child and what he felt is how I also perceived when those shitty things happened to him. I don't even know why he is mentioned
Damn I put an opinion on Rudeus Greyrat that I really wanted to hear Joey’s thoughts on, but I guess he hasn’t watched Mushoku yet, I’ll try again next time! Great Video!
@@user-ep1qj6rc1w I wanted to hear what he thought of the whole “mentally 30 year old basically ‘grooms’ his own future wives” which is probably his most reprehensible characteristic even if it’s realistic since he was a hard core degenerate.
@@kingdoom5022 I actually like him a ton too, but I thought the whole raising your wife thing would make a good let’s fight discussion since a lot of people are super triggered by him
An example (non animé) of a great but absolutely hateable character is Umbridge from Harry Potter and Geoffrey from GoT. They're not bad as having a bland taste, but they played their character so well it's more memorable than the main character.
Hey Joey loving the new content that you are dishing out in this channel. Frankly like you I've been tired with the anime content on CZcams but seeing the trash taste Podcast and your second channel being revived from the dead feels like a breath of fresh air
To the person who said about Vinland Saga: You didn't understand the anime at all. You just wasted 24 episodes worth of time. And I'd advice you don't waste you're time on the second season. You're better off watching Kirito and its cloned who are born cool. I also got frustrated by the things he did. And wondered why he wasn't making the obviously better decisions. But then it clicked. He wasn't sitting in front of a PC like me watching Anime, or wasn't taught in school, or was guided by others till he was 18-25 years old about the right thing to do. He was just a child how was filled with rage and was hungry for revenge toward the guy who killed his only hero (Dad) who he looked up to so much. He was angry they killed his dad unjust-fully. He was also blaming himself for his father's death. And he thought revenge was the only obvious choice. He doesn't know what's after it. What he'll do after the revenge. And that's where the Anime ended. Lets see what coming in the second season. For you're understanding, Do you remember shouting to you're family/friends/classmates??? Now, Imagine being like that for almost 10 years. That's Thorfinn.
Those who know season 2 thorfinn and aspire to be like him are the most refined men of culture. Cheers to one of the greatest characters in all of fiction
It's not ridiculous to say that many of the best characters in epic fantasies to be pretty shit for a season's worth. That just makes the development so much better when they get good. Thorfin was absolutely annoying and 1 note for a lot of season 1
I do agree that it is important for his character and for the story, and I definitely loved the way the season ended, but it doesn't remove from the fact that, during season 1, after a while, you're just like "Ok, we get it, you just want to kill him", and it can be frustrating to see him be literally used by Askeladd and he seems to not realize it. Speaking of which, after a while, he felt more like the main character than Thorfinn did, honestly. That's not to say Thorfinn is a bad character though. It comes back to the distinction between a character you end up not liking, but is still well written, versus a character that is actually just badly written. I do think he was well written, but it doesn't mean I have to like him (as he was in season 1, I must specify; with how the season ended, though, I have high expectations for his character in season 2).
@@Mercure250 Askeladd was the Main character. It was the Prologue to set up Thorfinn's story. It was to get Thorfinn to the point that he would lose his motivating goal of revenge and actually progress as a character.
9:00 i was one of these 16 years old kids, puberty kicked in hard and Highschool DxD came to me straight outta jesus pockets and introduced me to the beautiful world of anime. Thats why Issei belongs until this day in my heart
I've watched Madoka Magica 8 times and I think Madoka (at least the one from main timeline shown in the anime) is not a traditional main character and should not be judge as one
i'm really enjoying these new second channel videos, although the more energetic/high production ones on the main channel are great, i've missed these more chill videos where we just get to hear joey's thoughts
The main characters I can't stand are the 14 year old boy that gets a blood nose at the mention of the opposite sex (or so nervous he is on the verge of passing out with fright with dealing with girls/women) but is constantly put into the situation of dealing with girls/women. Female teacher walks into class room *nervous twitch with"oh noes what do I do?!!?!?!"* Buys snacks from Konbini, cashier is a woman *lies twitching on the floor from nerves* There always seems to be roughly 3 of these series each season.
One of the things that I feel a lot of people miss about Thorfinn even in season 1 that really had to his character is the quiet moments we see him go through every now and then. For instance, when he reunites with Leif, the fact that he asks about what's going out in Vinland. It really shows how deep down he still is the same boy that was fascinated by the stories of Vinland. He isn't just an edgy kid blinded by revenge, and this is something that the next arc will explore in a really interesting way. Can't wait for season 2
though doesn't change the fact that he cause his father death, that's why i can't stand him and dropped the show. He's not bad written but to me, he's terrible..
Say it with me: “The best relatable/self insert characters, are not characters that are bland everymen, but unique characters that are nothing like the audience member, but have something relatable the audience DOES see in themselves.”
Eeeeh until it gets oversaturated and the cycle begins again. Too many special mc to the point they arent special anymore and would want a normie to spice it up. Too many normie mc to the point it gets repetitive and want a special mc to spice it up. And then over and over
@@itsjustvin7630 not necessarily. the point of them being unique is that they're different from eachother... so basically, like how a character SHOULD be, their own person!
@@juice3287 that's as arrogantly naive as individuals believing they are unique despite said uniqueness is shared with others who are similar or downright the same.
I think Joey missed the fact that "bad" can be interpreted as in character design (script&role) and character behavior. I'm sure Joey wanted responses pertaining to character design but some people interpreted it as behavior, as in morally
I personally love Umaru-chan. Her character is disrespectful af to her brother, but it’s really relatable in a way. Her “severe otaku but still an outstanding citizen of society” lifestyle is what I would wish to live if I could, and it’s not like she completely disregards her brother. Her entire personality is just absolutely hilarious.
For me it's the opposite, characters like that are so annoying to me. Watching that anime was so hard, Umaru reminds me from Gabriel of Gabriel Dropout which was an absolute manipulator, lazy and a great asshole. But I get why would it be funny, just not for me lol
the second season of umaru-chan may want people to rethink that, because the second season is where the character development starts to really kick in.
In 21:33 I don't know why but I was more focused on the Siren 🚨 sounds in the background "hope everything is fine" is first thing that 😅 comes in my mind
There's an entire perspective about Madoka Magica that about 90% of people won't get, and it is that it's basically mirrors A LOT a show called Kamen Rider Ryuki. This show was about a people who find out a different dimension (Mirror World/Witch World), make contracts to get their powers in order to get a wish (Mirror Monsters/Kyuubei), die if their transforming item is destroyed (Rider Deck/Soul Gems) and basically ends with a time reset. Now, I'm mentioning all of this cause all the girls also mirror the main riders of the show like Sayaka and Ren being the sword fighter fighting to get someone they love out of the hospital, Mami and Kitaoka being the refined, lonely sniper fighting to just survive, Homura and Kanzaki fighting the entire system and resetting time over and over again just to save someone they love, and then there's Madoka and Shinji: the main character who isn't really the main character, who stumbled upon their worst nightmare, struggle to find a way for everyone to come out alive and are the only ones who had no wish coming into all of this. Both shows also kind fake us out early on, with Madoka making us think it's gonna be a Sailor Moon kind of deal with the opening and Ryuki making us think Shinji will be the last one standing and wish everyone back from the dead, but neither was the protagonist from the start. Homura was the protag in Madoka and Ren in Ryuki, Madoka and Shinji were just what the every guy, the normal people who wouldn't really be able to move the plot on their own and basically what we would be in their place. The writer of Madoka, Gen Urobochi, later worked on another Kamen Rider show that had the same fake out in the start with it looking really silly in the beginning and shit getting REALLY dark by the end. Honestly, I just love these shows and the fact that even after almost a decade, I keep finding stuff to think about them, you cannot look at them on a surface level.
I would say everyone was thinking "worst" as in a dislikable character. But for me it's "bad or very poorly written" main character. It's the writing that goes into a character that really determines if they are a good or bad character. Having a character you hate because of their actions is a dislikable character but the writing is good! So it's a good written character. When I say worst characters or characters I don't like I go on the writing.
to be completely honest, I believe the final patreon hasn't really tried to look more into deku's character as a whole, during the many different story arcs you see past the first season you can definitely notice a big change in deku's character as a whole, and it becomes highly noticeable during recent chapters. Not going to mention exactly why because it is in deed a spoiler, but you should not be completely put off just because deku seems superficial at first.
I gotta disagree with that Deku one, king. I am not going to focus on how the inflated list use the same reasons multiple times. I'll just offer my -opinion- accidental thesis about deku below. First, to answer some of Blake's main points quickly (take this as a tl;dr): 1. Deku only had a year or less to prepare to even *have* One For All--a power owned by the No. 1 hero--how can he *not* break his body in the beginning? Luffy can't use his gum gum fruit power in the beginning as well and he got years to train before episode 1, Deku didn't. 2. Deku is wimpy because he lack quirks which most people have, it would take a particular strong mind to not feel insecure about it. I think that Deku is rather different from other anime MC that he does not have confidence or is already somewhat strong genetically. Take Naruto, from what I know he used to be very bad in ninjutsu and is isolated, but he has Nine Tail's power (and is soon unlocked in the first few episode) and his parents' gene that eventually came to play, heck his previous life become a thing of relevance eventually. If Naruto is behind on the starting line, Deku couldn't even enter the race. He is quirkless. All he has is the will to become a hero and through shear chance, he met All Might. Now he got what he lacked to be a hero: a quirk. He can finally has a chance to enter the race, but first, he needs to train really, really hard in only a year or less to even get to have that quirk. Most of the MC had very tough training as a premise, but Deku can't even do that before the show, since he doesn't have quirks and doesn't know he will get one. So realistically he only had about a year or less to catch up, so of course he is going to break his body using the literal number 1 hero in the world's power. And now that he just got the quirk, his confidence, power, and will as a hero are slowly matching up. He grew more and more confident as the season went on, albeit a slow one. He slowly getting more confident to face the villain, , or whatever obstacles, in front of him (e.g. getting used to his "new quirks" or catching up to Endeavor during intern). He is a hero-in-the-making, which is the whole point of the show. It is really interesting to see how other characters' ideal influenced him and make him become the ideal hero he wants to be.
I really agree with your opinion. I've seen many people HATE deku just for some random reasons, if you don't like him it's okay. But he is a good character.
As for ideas for future Let’s Fights, I have a couple of suggestions for consideration. Dumbest Concept for an Anime Most Overplayed Song (anime or otherwise) Most Annoying Mascot Character Least Appealing Love Interest Most Overrated Anime Series
Maybe something cool to add to the series would be having the higher tier patrons (I'm not even a patron) be able to join a discord chat and explain the nuance of their opinion. This would honestly take way more effort and if I were in your position I wouldn't do it just because of that extra effort cost but if your up to it, I think it could be really cool, both as a viewer and in giving the patrons something unique for their support.
just makes me think about the incredible feat of SAO Abridged transforming Kirito into a good, well-written character by leaning into the "sociopathy as a cover for deep-seated emotional issues" aspect.
Deku can be pretty annoying and has legitimate character flaws in later arcs but that list is full of none reasons as to why one might think he’s the worst main character. He’s not my favourite character by any means but he has some great aspects to him that many choose to ignore and he doesn’t even come close to being the worst MC in anime.
Joey thinking the patron meant that Eren was hateable was the best. Eren is a bad character regardless of being an antagonist or not. "It's a spoiler why", THAT Trash Taste will indeed be glorious
lmao that essay on Deku "he's a bland rip-off... now here's a hundred reasons why he's actually interestingly flawed and with a natural naiveté that allows room to mature into a respectable hero organically" Don't get me wrong, Deku's super annoying, but he's annoying in a very natural way
I think that take was probably a joke. At least the tail end of it was. Look at stuff like point 22 and point 24. "This one is for all the other times he had to make out with recovery granny. I swear he gets hurt on purpose." Some of this stuff made me crack the hell up.
deku is really inconsistent and doesn't act as human as the other characters. He feels more like a plot device than a main character especially in the night eye arc. He has been altruistic the whole show even when his idol All Might constantly tells him not to, he wouldn't listen to him. So why does he let a clearly abused girl in his arms go back to a obvious villain? plot lol that's the only real consistent thing about him. 1,000,000% plot ,extra quirks out of nowhere etc. i ilke the show but i just really hate deku he is the worst. tldr: deku is just like kirito.
@@Idcidancecool Ok well for one All Might doesn't tell him to stop listening to him, other characters tell Deku to stop trying to emulate All Might so much and they do explain why he let Eri go and that's because Mirio pushed him to do so because he didn't want to fight Overhaul in public and it would screw up their sting. It's also established both Mirio and him are really upset they had to let Eri go when they saw just how messed up what Overhaul was doing was.
@@mikemorro140 ???? That’s like the first episode though when he runs in with a backpack to fight a slime monster and the whole reason all might even gives him his powers but what Night says is so much more important lol plot
@@Idcidancecool All Might isn't reward Deku for not listening to him per se, All Might saw that despite being quirkless Deku still rushed in to try to help plus he has that line about heroes running in before they even know it. It's also established later that he felt some kinship with Deku since they were both quirkless. It's not just plot the series goes more into it as time goes on about how All Might being so reckless and all is why he got so injured and that Deku was following that path as well and that doing it like that is bad.
Literally, the only reason I watched Pokémon as a kid was for Team Rocket. They were the only characters I cared about and I still love those guys to this day. ❤️🚀💙
I still really like Connors idea from the last TT where each boy has to watch an anime (could be short ones like 12 ep or 1 season) then talk about it. Come on Joey, you can fit One in a month 😆
Not with all the content we get on the man channel. And MOC is so full with manga that he already does. Finally we don't exactly know what Joey does in his private life.
@@oyamampendu9467 TRUE
@@oyamampendu9467 or forc- ask cannur to read manga
But Joey has to touch grass lol
Or Joey can just hype a Manga that he likes, I like that compromise
"Just because the character is hatable, doesn't make them a bad character"
FUCKING THIS! PEOPLE NEED TO HEAR THIS!
The perfect example of that saying is the character Joffrey in Game of Thrones, he was the most hatable character in the entire show for quite a while and SPOILERS when he died in season 4 many people (including me) cheered and was happy with his demise. A hatable character does not mean that they are a bad character
Yup, a hateable character is not a badly written character, and on a similar note an intentionally annoying character isn't less annoying or a good character just because it's intentional.
But that patreon is right, Eren Jaeger is one of the worst mc and it's spoiler to tell why
However, that doesn't mean they're a well-written character either. Just saying.
like the anti-hero or simply a villain protagonist.
Joey: "Garbage, Hot, and Bullshit Opinions"
Me an intellectual : "Trash taste"
Tasting trash
@@sandromaspindzelashvili5767 Trashing taste
I'm sure that's a reference to something.
*Wink*
@@luisfelipe1643 W
XD
If you hate a character designed to be hated, it's a good character
Not quite, a character that is hated shouldn't detract from the story.
Ramsey Bolton is indeed a great character!
@@speokeosai And such characters do often *not* detract from the story.
That's what I think about Sugou from Sao
@@speokeosai hmm yes if you read the comment you'll know they dont
I kinda miss the head shaking, angrily saying "Let's fight!" that Joey does.
yea this episode feels kind of empty ish, i miss the gritty, intense arguements with the folks on twitter along with the video effects that give it that fun entertaining fighting effect to the video, this doesnt feel like a "lets fight" but more of a "Lets talk"
He needs Mudan's edits to get the energy going.
Yep, I miss it too
@@PrimeSpork oh you know, it's like when your friends discover your henti collections and they're not even remotely angry.
Just "Dude, I think it's time to talk".
Lets fight = angry, need explanation
Lets talk = disappointed, also need explanation
I think "Best Couples in Anime" is a great vein for polarizing opinions.
Good one....I wanna see some unpopular opinion
These have a bad tendency of starting wars
Yesss
Not anime, but Taiyo and Mutsumi from Mission: Yozakura family are great.
@@hendeyjagger7489 oh most definitely!
I love those two together
Joey: 70% anime 30% random bullsh*t
TheAnimeMan: %90 random bullsh*t %10 anime
Joey = TheAn1meMan
TheAnimeMan = VegetaReview69
It's refreshing to watch you being super chill when talking about anime. Honestly, I prefer these kind of videos to the ones you upload in your main channel.
Same
"less about anime and more about anything I enjoy"
Character development.
Character development is trash lol
I think Joey gots it right. A good character gets you emotionally invested in them. Whether it's being pissed at them or cheering them on
I was literally thinking about where this series went just yesterday. 😂
Same lol
Joey's gettin' thick boi
I love this seriously so much .... want it back
And it went to the joey channel
it went to haven because it was good
Joey comparing bad and "bad" characters remind me of a quote I heard before.
"Hate is not the opposite of love, it's apathy."
I think a bad main character or character in general is one who we are supposed to see one way (good, bad etc.), but the story fails to convey that. For example: We are supposed to like Umuru, but her actions in the story make us dislike her.
So does that mean if we're supposed to see Light as evil but people love him does that mean he fails as an mc?
@@itsjustvin7630 it's more people love how evil he becomes
@@altenby8462 which is why OP's reasoning doesnt fit well enough
@@itsjustvin7630 I mean people like how evil he becomes, so it still makes sense, it's not like they think he's suddenly good or anything.
@@itsjustvin7630
You misunderstand, he's talking about the writer writing a character thats supposed to be one way, but acts in a way the contradicts that. People liking Light even though he's evill is not a contradiction of character. It would however be contradictory if Light was portrayed as the peak of human morality while doing the things he does in the show
Every time I see or read answers for this question, people tend to overwhelmingly shit on characters that boil down to being not very assertive, openly emotional or just overall not fitting into the expectations most people have for a shounen protagonist. Personally, I think it’s a shame b/c i feel like the madokas and shinjis of the world add a bit of more nuance to their respective series that people otherwise miss b/c they always want Kamina as a mc. These characters should be allowed to express their sadness and they aren’t any less weak for it. Of course you’re free to not like them on a personal level but I just think it’s worth acknowledging what role or theme they represent in the larger story as a whole.
In the romance side, I feel this a lot with Kazuya Kinoshita from Rent-a-Girlfriend. He gets too much shit from the people expecting that he become some "chad" (a word I do not understand at all) like Ishigami from Kaguya-sama or something. Like, I get it you (the Kazuya haters) don't like him. Stick to Ishigami and Hachiman for your romance fantasies but Kazuya adds more than those self-insert characters.
Yes exactly, I feel the same for Yuki from Future Diary... most people don't realise that if his character wasn't designed like that, it wouldn't even highlight Yuno or other characters around him and wouldn't make the situation as much realistic as they can... considering the setting...
@@aviewerofu Yuki is not great, ut its shown in another timeline where yuno isnt so overprotective, he is more taking action on his own.
Thank you, there's so many takes about Deku being a bad protagonist because he cries too much or some dumb shit like that or he doesn't act like other protagonists, like I'm not saying there's nothing to critize him for but this feels so shallow.
I think this episode should be titled 'Teaching People the Difference between a Bad Character and a Character That is Intentionally Written to be Hated by You'
My pick would be Sakura. She's actually _supposed_ to be a main character but isn't treated like one at all, so there's a red flag. There's also the fact her entire identity is based around loving a terrorist and actually chooses her feelings for him over her whole damn village, for no actual reason. Theres no reason for her to have such a strong connection to Sasuke. It's not only until much later in the show when she's basically forced to deny her feelings thanks to plot device that she actually does something, she might have failed but she tried. I thought that was a turning point but then she's just a damsel in distress again and sidelined because the boys gotta play. She's just a plot device for pretty much the entire runtime of Naruto and Shippuden.
It sucks, she had potential but it was wasted because Kishimoto can't write a good female character. All the women in Naruto are poorly written and are just plot devices at best. If they're not, they're just standing there doing nothing and being useless while the dudes go ham and blow everything up. Since this is main characters and Sakura was meant to be a main character, I'm naming her but it extends to the entire female cast of Naruto.
I mean honestly I literally wanted to garotte most of narutos main cast outside of kakashi.. although admittedly I didn't get super far sooo maybe naruto and sasuke get less annoying later on but oh my GOD are they unlikable brats for a while and it makes it really hard for me to actually care about anything bad happening to them or root for them at all.. which is kinda a flaw in terms of the typical shonen style honestly when the series wants you to obviously care about them
@@OutOfTheShadows1 well they are kids and like 10 or 12 years old in Naruto, so annoying behaviour is to be expected. But they’re definitely much more mature in Shippuden, and it definitely gets better
@@NA-yq4pe Fair, glad they do grow up, although admittedly idk if I'd have the patience for pre shippuden no offense, but thanks
@@OutOfTheShadows1 yeah I totally get that, I started the show when I was around their age so it was okay, not sure if I’d be able to bear it as an adult lol
@@NA-yq4pe Yeee, maybe if I was closer to their age when I tried it that woulda helped lol.. just kinda hard to place myself into that mindset again, but in terms of shonen I'd probably either finally try Dai no Daiboukens reboot or MHA before I do Naruto
Fantano got the bass on Let's Argue
Joey got a guitar on Let's Fight
we need somebody on the drums now
that would be a hell of a collab
Isn’t sean(septiceye) a drummer ?
@@scurfer yes
Dankpods
Joey: "Kirito is bad because self insert"
Joey: "Issei good because I related"
To be fair Issei gets some significant bullshit time and again (he fucking died), and that death was too vivid for him that he was subconsciously at war with his own perversion.
issei doesnt really feel like self insert tho. he can just relate
issei isn’t really a self-insert, he has actual personality, kirito is just a wooden board
@@boog1116 kirito is better lol
@@simongames100 no
Kazuchin from Rent-a-Girlfriend was missing, and to anyone who hasn't read the manga, he gets so much worse.
thanks, I dropped the manga very early hoping that someone sould tell me that he gets better. Now I know that I will never even watch the anime
The constant scenes of him just monologuing about how pretty Mizuhara is gets tiresome when he does it every goddamn chapter lmao, plus that's legitimately all he thinks of her is that she's pretty, it kinda pictures the mangaka being kind of creepy when all the main character does most of the time is describing how sexy and pretty the heroine is.
main character of girlfriend, girlfriend was also missing, probably even worse than kazuchin
Nah he's ok. That's his way of character. You get the hate right? Then he's doing his job
@@vriendloos3242 Yeah that mc is so blend. I watched it because of the voice actors
Louise from the Familiar of Zero. Constantly abuses Saito, never takes responsibility for her actions,
Shifts blame to Saito, and somehow Saito chooses her by the end, when he could have chosen any of the other girls, who actually gave a damn about him.
Plus, as Robyn from Anime America once said: "We don't want the spoiled brat getting what she wants!"
shit i remember watching the familiar of zero, I don't even know why I watched it
@@haziqwhz I watched it for the fantasy aspect. And I was partially hoping Saito would hook up with one of the nicer girls, such as Siesta, Henrietta, or Tiffa, but NOPE!!!
One of the first animes I dropped because of how Terrible Louise is
@@Jaxxxz1356 IKR! And to think fans used to defend Louise.
been a hot minute since I've heard Familiar of Zero mentioned
Natsuo from Domestic Girlfriend.. the guy flip flops multiple times in the anime and even throughout the manga
Yeah, he's bottom 3 for me as well. I kind of liked it up until the last 100ish chapter, but it was way too overdone and annoying by that point.
@@tmk5567 I liked the arc when him and rui were properly dating and the manga finally had a consistent non flip floppy romance that lasted a long time and the arc afterwards with the romance actually taking a backseat to show off their character development and growth into adults and then the final arc happened and I ended up wanting to jump off a bridge
@@53ddddateme
Honestly I don't think I've ever wanted o strangle a fictional character more(which is saying a lot) then when Natsuo got back with Hina at the end
You know, i really respect Joey trying to build this second Channel as something separated from the main one. Now he can explore more interesting topics non-anime related, and i'm really excited for what's to come. Keep it up man!
I've missed this series so much
same
#PainfullyRelatable
I think this episode should be titled 'Teaching People the Difference between a Bad Character and a Character That is Intentionally Written to be Hated by You'
@@ThatsPrettyFunnyMan yeah....like, why is so hard to understand
Me no joey taste is garbage lol
Can we talk about how in the "25 reasons why Deku sucks", he lists "not his own powers" like 3 or 4 times?
average deku fan:
@@ulqui0rra Yes. But still that list of reasons he's hated was complete bullshit.
One of the listing on that was Talk no Jutsu😁😂
And like, the fact that he started out wearing his sneakers with his hero costume (which he doesn't anymore). If that was a list of reasons he's annoyed by Deku, it'd be totally valid, but there's so many objectively value-neutral things on it that it's kinda. A bad argument for why he's a bad character.
(don't even get me started on the "Deku uses a whip, and Indiana Jones and Hitler used whips, so. :/"
Had to stifle my laughter at that bit cuz I didn't want my family to ask questions XD
Some of these points are so stupid.
- Like how he says the quirk wasn't his but you could say that about All Might, Nana and then even later Shigaraki. Who people love and praise in the show. Lots of characters get their powers from outside sources and aren't born with them like Eren, Ken Kaneki, Lelouch etc. If he wants to argue how he got his power, that's fine but just the fact he got it from someone else isn't a problem.
- He also seemed to have forgotten Deku got into UA barely because of his rescue points and somehow thinks All Might bribed UA to get him in? Did you also think Kakashi bribed to get Naruto in the second part of the chunin exam? The two (Deku and Naruto) only made it in because of a technicality.
- For some reason, Deku saving kids is a problem to this guy. He mentions this separately like three different times.
- His costume he drew when he was fifteen is dumb. Wow what a shocker. My OC drawings looked like crap too when I was a kid. Also, the costume was trying to mimic All Might which he seemed to gloss over and thinks it's supposed to be an animal.
- Training with All Might is apparently creepy. Hear that Korosensei, Jiraiya, Franken Stein, Master Roshi, Izumi? Ya'll are creeps for teaching kids. And he somehow thinks Bakugou is his best friend which....when has Deku ever said that? They were childhood friends but not BFF's.
- Complains that his shoes are the same....
- Compares Deku to Indiana Jones and Hitler because he can use a whip. O-o
- Deku hurting himself is a way to make sure he's not super OP right off the bat. That's why he has broken bones and gets injured a lot.
Now, don't get me wrong. Deku is FAR from my favorite character in MHA. I find most of the adults more enjoyable than the students other than Todoroki. I personally have issues with Deku when it comes to later arcs like how fast he's getting these new quirks, his arc with him against Class 1A felt rushed, his connections to the other vestiges just feels hollow and I don't care for how quickly he changed Lady Nagant's perspective. There's plenty to criticize about Deku but these points are some of least of Deku's issues as an MC.
Who would've thought, the anime man is actually talking about anime!
Tell me about it
But this is channel Joey. He found a loophole
Who would've thought, the anime man is actually talking about anime!
In his F**KING NORMAL CHANNEL WTF IS GOING ON JOEY
I recognize u from the trash taste vid
If I had to pick anyone it would be Mikado from Durarara. Most of the characters in Durarara are interesting and fun characters to enjoy. But with most of Mikado scenes I really couldn't get into him. He felt more like a tool for the narrative rather than an actual well developed character. I think Celty would have been the better option for the MC. She has a more memorable design, an interesting premise, good conflict throughout the story and feels more fleshed out.
I love Durarara (pfp reveals all) but Mikado def felt like a weaker aspect. The anime tries to point out about him being normal but he's got a big secret in that he created the Dollars. And that was supposed to be a big deal. But literally every character in the show is like that. They seem normal but they have something strange or quirky about them. And as the MC of the show, his unique aspect wasn't that interesting or fleshed out. Even Anri and Masaomi had more going for them and would have made better MC's.
Damn havent heard people talk about Durarara in so long
This section is weird, cause mikado isn't the MC. Cause DRRR doesn't have an mc, its an ensemble cast. I think people think he is cause he looks the most stereotypically like one. Also there to hide that he's a sociopath in the novels, but yeah
strange. i like him because of that. that secret actually blows my mind. well keep in mind that durara is the first time i saw anime that has "unique" story telling
I have some suggestions:
- Something regarding music (albums, bands etc.)
- Antagonists in media
- Something you like that everyone else hates or vice versa
- Your favorite underground show/manga/whateve
The first one is currently on TheNeedleDrop / Anthony Fantano
@@TheOutsider1115 Well, I know fantano but why shouldn't Joey be allowed to do the same thing? Especially if it's only for one video. I'd say the viewers of both channels are also pretty different, so obviously this will result in different music taste and different hot takes
@@mynameissara7467 I didn't say Joey can't do it though
Not that I didn't want to join in on the fun but I just couldn't think of a MC I really hated. Not saying any of the ones mention here I liked either but couldn't think of one (If I can even remember) where a MC brought down the show for me. Maybe next topic
Even Boruto?
Rent a girlfriend?
@@risu2312 he was ass
@@SleekHeroo but man he is the luckiest person alive to be honest
Wait... so you like the protagonist from redo healer? (Ò□Ó!!)
I've always agreed that Madoka is probably the least interesting of the gang, despite it being my favourite show, but one day I realised that her character type would work better in other genres. In other words, she's a slice of life character living out fantasy trauma, and so she grew on me slightly.
The thing with Madoka is that, by the premise of the show, she isn't allowed to do anything because Homura will intervene in her behalf.
That one of the things episode 10 showed, that without Homura's input Madoka is much more assertive and does whatever she needs to.
Or at least that's how I saw it after multiple watchings.
It’s BECAUSE she’s so incorruptible and pure that the conflict in the show gets resolved, so….eh I’ll give it a pass. I did like her final decision and confrontation with her mom at the end, and how she actually chose to take things into her own hands. That was a good character moment
I believe people did not pay any attention to her struggles, seeing everything falling apart and trying to sort out how to fix it. At one point, thinking she would save Sayaka she nearly kills her, so its not true that she doesnt do anything during the entire show. Also, we see in the other timelines that an experienced Madoka was even the leader of the group; confident and everything. She was just cautious and undecisive about her wish in the main timeline, cause she realized she had everything she really wanted and did not want to lose it (her friends and family) and because of all the weird stuff happening with Homura and Kyubei. Thats why she didnt fuck up like the others and ended up saving everyone. People just find interesting action and deaths, but if you see deeper, Madoka is a great character for how much she is willing to do for everyone and how responsible she is despite of her age (and the limits the show represents because of that).
@@Mati303s yea I agree; many don't find her as interesting because her character is about emotional hardship while the others, still, had a lot of that too, but were also the fighters of the series. (Ironically her emotional arc is was makes the series so human and impactful.)
However, I stand by what I said: she would work excellently, if not better, in a slice of life show. There were moments where her cutesy side (dare I say moe??) shon through, and especially so in the manga. She really belongs in a school club, not in the hot mess she found herself in.
But then again, that's precisely why she makes a good protagonist: BECAUSE she doesn't belong.
@@styxthistle497 I agree. What you are comenting relates to the show being a deconstruction of the magical girl genre. Madoka is the perfect representation of someone who should be in a cheery world, but somehow ended up in a dark one. It makes sense, i just wanted to stop the Madoka slander, cause like you said, it works BECAUSE of that fact
I would argue that characters that are designed to be hated and disliked and fulfill that exact role are pretty good characters. They do what they are supposed to do, and if they are assholes in a convincing fashion and burn into the readers/watchers minds then they did excactly what they were supposed to do. Hence there are great antagonists, extremely dislikable characters but therefore being very recognisable and easily rememberable.
I think a good character is a character who if does something bad or good u think the character did it rather than the writers made the choice.
You guys mentioned her in a trash taste episode once. Grant had such a visceral reaction that I had to search up the intro. Now I listen to it on a daily bases despite it killing me slowly. Thanks.
You mean little baby man?
@@accelerator5422 no im pretty sure he spelt his name right
What intro are you talking about, I might’ve missed the context from the video but I honestly have no clue who you’re talking about based on what Garnt said. Also which episode of trash taste?
@@moistcrusader2026 For those of you wondering, I was talking about umaru chans's intro.
@@TobyAnderson Oh fuck why did you put yourself through that mental torture
I hope you would add more pictures of the characters that are talked about , so that the people who don't remember animes/characters could get the "oh thats who you mean" feeling. Glad you brought the serries back
Been a while since the last let’s fight and glad it’s coming back
As much as I appreciate his work and the grindset, these videos are a very relaxing break from Mudan’s editing style
I would like to retaliate the point made by that person that complained about Madoka's character because I do remember thinking about something that justified her having that kind of boring and uninspiring behaviour. I cant recall the whole argument but I think my opinion was that the show tried to show how different people would react to the situation they were in, having thoughtful and collective characters like Homura, selfish ones like Kyouko, altruistic ones like sayaka, (kinda) cocky ones like Mami and, you guessed it, coward ones like Madoka. Every character is different and their reactions and what happens to them are all different. Sure, the author could have chosen a more likable personality for our main girl, because I do think she was kinda useless and not my favorite character at all, but her importance is still there I guess. Idk, maybe I'm coping too much, I watched Madoka a long time ago, maybe I'll get back to this comment after rewatching it, but do take what I said with a grain of salt.
agree w u and imo madoka does have an assertive side to her, its just that her showing character n acting up keeps getting her killed lol. so the useless madoka we see is mostly from homura interveneing n not letting her do anything
I wouldnt call her coward, since she confronted everything at the end. Theres also the other timelines. She was just wary and didnt wanna lose everything, cause her family and friends were everything to her. Thats why she struggled so much to find a wish and then even more when she knew the cost of it. The entire show she tried to find out how to help everyone and ended up doing it. I think its superficial to see it like that. She was the only one that took the right choices most of the time. it was just difficult for her to protect everyone since she was just a child and didnt understand the cosmic shit that was happening around her, so it took time. I agree about the perspective thing, but Madoka's wasnt cowardice, it was something among the lines of prudence, since she was a spectator and didnt act impulsively.
About Sayaka, she wasnt really altruistic, the whole point of her character was that she expected something in return with helping her friend. She expected love from him. That was a preview of what would come to be with Homura, and how love can really be egoist and intoxicating.
@@Mati303s thanks for putting it in a much nicer way :)
She could be a bit more likable but as main character, her grounded perspective does the job elevating how dark and tragic things are.
unpopular opinion: You don't need to be rooting for the main character/s to enjoy a story.
Opposite to the worst main characters, this season's anime have so many great MCs like Tadano from Komi Cant Communicate and Miko from Mieruko chan!
Rudeus from Mushoku Tensei, Lugh from World's Finest Assassin & Yaguchi from Blue Period as well
@@marcuszeus5552 hell yeahhh this season got a lot of awesome MCs
Tadano? He is blander than most MCs, just a nice guy who praised everything Komi does.
Yall are forgetting about tamahiko from the greatest romance of this season
@@c.k.1933 Atleast He's Not Kazuya.
Thorfinn is one of the greatest main character written I've seen so far in anime/manga. Even in his early days as a child and what he felt is how I also perceived when those shitty things happened to him. I don't even know why he is mentioned
Because they have Trash Taste.
7:02
"They're so 2d"
No shit, it's anime
I think this was a joke. Was this a joke? I think- was this a joke?
Troll right?
You can't possibly be this dumb
He meant the character's personality is 2d unrealistic not the design
@@electroteen5780 pssst. You didn't have to offend nobody. You don't know whether he's joking or not.
@@electroteen5780 I was joking 😬
The guy who watched Vinland and roasted Thorfinn character really didn't understand the show lmao
Damn I put an opinion on Rudeus Greyrat that I really wanted to hear Joey’s thoughts on, but I guess he hasn’t watched Mushoku yet, I’ll try again next time! Great Video!
Kinda agree. From morals perspective he is an absolute trash, but he is an great character from character writing perspective.
@@user-ep1qj6rc1w I wanted to hear what he thought of the whole “mentally 30 year old basically ‘grooms’ his own future wives” which is probably his most reprehensible characteristic even if it’s realistic since he was a hard core degenerate.
Yeah from a moral stand point rudeus is undoubtedly an absolute scumbag but he is a memorable character and has pretty good development
Lol rudeus is easily in top 10 MC characters of all times
@@kingdoom5022 I actually like him a ton too, but I thought the whole raising your wife thing would make a good let’s fight discussion since a lot of people are super triggered by him
joey: "makoto is good.. well written character"
everyone: "aaaand he is a visual novel protagonist"
Ayo that intro actually slapped ngl
An example (non animé) of a great but absolutely hateable character is Umbridge from Harry Potter and Geoffrey from GoT. They're not bad as having a bland taste, but they played their character so well it's more memorable than the main character.
Tbh,umbridge wasn't even that great of a character.she's legit a tool,with no personality,other than being with the ministry.
I've missed this series so much! Thanks for bringing it back!
Hey Joey loving the new content that you are dishing out in this channel. Frankly like you I've been tired with the anime content on CZcams but seeing the trash taste Podcast and your second channel being revived from the dead feels like a breath of fresh air
I don't know why but whenever am on the second channel it feels like a tree house that you have with your friends
I'm*
@@laboon344 literally nobody cares
Can't wait for more!! As writer I love the insights on what makes a character good or bad
To the person who said about Vinland Saga: You didn't understand the anime at all. You just wasted 24 episodes worth of time. And I'd advice you don't waste you're time on the second season. You're better off watching Kirito and its cloned who are born cool.
I also got frustrated by the things he did. And wondered why he wasn't making the obviously better decisions. But then it clicked. He wasn't sitting in front of a PC like me watching Anime, or wasn't taught in school, or was guided by others till he was 18-25 years old about the right thing to do.
He was just a child how was filled with rage and was hungry for revenge toward the guy who killed his only hero (Dad) who he looked up to so much. He was angry they killed his dad unjust-fully. He was also blaming himself for his father's death. And he thought revenge was the only obvious choice. He doesn't know what's after it. What he'll do after the revenge. And that's where the Anime ended. Lets see what coming in the second season.
For you're understanding, Do you remember shouting to you're family/friends/classmates??? Now, Imagine being like that for almost 10 years. That's Thorfinn.
Those who know season 2 thorfinn and aspire to be like him are the most refined men of culture. Cheers to one of the greatest characters in all of fiction
It's not ridiculous to say that many of the best characters in epic fantasies to be pretty shit for a season's worth. That just makes the development so much better when they get good. Thorfin was absolutely annoying and 1 note for a lot of season 1
Thorfinn has one of the greatest character developments in all of anime and manga.
I do agree that it is important for his character and for the story, and I definitely loved the way the season ended, but it doesn't remove from the fact that, during season 1, after a while, you're just like "Ok, we get it, you just want to kill him", and it can be frustrating to see him be literally used by Askeladd and he seems to not realize it. Speaking of which, after a while, he felt more like the main character than Thorfinn did, honestly.
That's not to say Thorfinn is a bad character though. It comes back to the distinction between a character you end up not liking, but is still well written, versus a character that is actually just badly written. I do think he was well written, but it doesn't mean I have to like him (as he was in season 1, I must specify; with how the season ended, though, I have high expectations for his character in season 2).
@@Mercure250 Askeladd was the Main character. It was the Prologue to set up Thorfinn's story. It was to get Thorfinn to the point that he would lose his motivating goal of revenge and actually progress as a character.
Joey: I haven’t seen anyone emotionally invested in Oreimo
Garnt in the corner: *crying his eyes out*
9:00 i was one of these 16 years old kids, puberty kicked in hard and Highschool DxD came to me straight outta jesus pockets and introduced me to the beautiful world of anime. Thats why Issei belongs until this day in my heart
How the f-!
Same!
🙂
I've watched Madoka Magica 8 times and I think Madoka (at least the one from main timeline shown in the anime) is not a traditional main character and should not be judge as one
I remember when the LET'S FIGHT intro actually went like SLAP SLAP and now look at it...
i'm really enjoying these new second channel videos, although the more energetic/high production ones on the main channel are great, i've missed these more chill videos where we just get to hear joey's thoughts
The main characters I can't stand are the 14 year old boy that gets a blood nose at the mention of the opposite sex (or so nervous he is on the verge of passing out with fright with dealing with girls/women) but is constantly put into the situation of dealing with girls/women.
Female teacher walks into class room *nervous twitch with"oh noes what do I do?!!?!?!"*
Buys snacks from Konbini, cashier is a woman *lies twitching on the floor from nerves*
There always seems to be roughly 3 of these series each season.
One of the things that I feel a lot of people miss about Thorfinn even in season 1 that really had to his character is the quiet moments we see him go through every now and then. For instance, when he reunites with Leif, the fact that he asks about what's going out in Vinland. It really shows how deep down he still is the same boy that was fascinated by the stories of Vinland. He isn't just an edgy kid blinded by revenge, and this is something that the next arc will explore in a really interesting way. Can't wait for season 2
though doesn't change the fact that he cause his father death, that's why i can't stand him and dropped the show. He's not bad written but to me, he's terrible..
The intro made me cry ;-;
So beautiful.
Say it with me:
“The best relatable/self insert characters, are not characters that are bland everymen, but unique characters that are nothing like the audience member, but have something relatable the audience DOES see in themselves.”
Eeeeh until it gets oversaturated and the cycle begins again. Too many special mc to the point they arent special anymore and would want a normie to spice it up. Too many normie mc to the point it gets repetitive and want a special mc to spice it up. And then over and over
@@itsjustvin7630 And thus repeats the cycle of life
@@itsjustvin7630 not necessarily. the point of them being unique is that they're different from eachother... so basically, like how a character SHOULD be, their own person!
@@juice3287 that's as arrogantly naive as individuals believing they are unique despite said uniqueness is shared with others who are similar or downright the same.
@@juice3287 being your own person doesnt stop others from being just like you
The nostalgia hits hard ngl , love this series , keep up the good work
I think Joey missed the fact that "bad" can be interpreted as in character design (script&role) and character behavior. I'm sure Joey wanted responses pertaining to character design but some people interpreted it as behavior, as in morally
Umaru better not be the focus of this video 😤
I found umaru chan so funny, dunno why Joey doesnt like it
@@zhargard I also really like Umaru.
Nice guitar intro to let's argue...I mean let's fight
Finally the series I’ve been dying for 😭
Is trash lol
I personally love Umaru-chan. Her character is disrespectful af to her brother, but it’s really relatable in a way. Her “severe otaku but still an outstanding citizen of society” lifestyle is what I would wish to live if I could, and it’s not like she completely disregards her brother. Her entire personality is just absolutely hilarious.
For me it's the opposite, characters like that are so annoying to me. Watching that anime was so hard, Umaru reminds me from Gabriel of Gabriel Dropout which was an absolute manipulator, lazy and a great asshole. But I get why would it be funny, just not for me lol
i agree with you. This is why umaru is and always will be my waifu
Joey:what is The WORST Main Character in Anime
me: every trash isekai main character ever lol
That guy that was hating on deku was for sure trolling after his first few reason
If this series wasn't borrowed enough from Fantano, you now open the show with guitar xD
To be fair, Fantano is bassist, but yeah....
For a lets fight suggestion how bout best written villain in anime/manga
the second season of umaru-chan may want people to rethink that, because the second season is where the character development starts to really kick in.
oh, we'll fight alright (on umaru - just from the thumbnail)
George from Paradise Kiss.
Sure maybe he's not a badly written character, but boy I've never hated an anime characters as much as him.
In 21:33 I don't know why but I was more focused on the Siren 🚨 sounds in the background "hope everything is fine" is first thing that 😅 comes in my mind
Eren Yeager yeah, it will click once you finish the series
not the worst tho
There's an entire perspective about Madoka Magica that about 90% of people won't get, and it is that it's basically mirrors A LOT a show called Kamen Rider Ryuki. This show was about a people who find out a different dimension (Mirror World/Witch World), make contracts to get their powers in order to get a wish (Mirror Monsters/Kyuubei), die if their transforming item is destroyed (Rider Deck/Soul Gems) and basically ends with a time reset. Now, I'm mentioning all of this cause all the girls also mirror the main riders of the show like Sayaka and Ren being the sword fighter fighting to get someone they love out of the hospital, Mami and Kitaoka being the refined, lonely sniper fighting to just survive, Homura and Kanzaki fighting the entire system and resetting time over and over again just to save someone they love, and then there's Madoka and Shinji: the main character who isn't really the main character, who stumbled upon their worst nightmare, struggle to find a way for everyone to come out alive and are the only ones who had no wish coming into all of this. Both shows also kind fake us out early on, with Madoka making us think it's gonna be a Sailor Moon kind of deal with the opening and Ryuki making us think Shinji will be the last one standing and wish everyone back from the dead, but neither was the protagonist from the start. Homura was the protag in Madoka and Ren in Ryuki, Madoka and Shinji were just what the every guy, the normal people who wouldn't really be able to move the plot on their own and basically what we would be in their place. The writer of Madoka, Gen Urobochi, later worked on another Kamen Rider show that had the same fake out in the start with it looking really silly in the beginning and shit getting REALLY dark by the end. Honestly, I just love these shows and the fact that even after almost a decade, I keep finding stuff to think about them, you cannot look at them on a surface level.
I would say everyone was thinking "worst" as in a dislikable character. But for me it's "bad or very poorly written" main character. It's the writing that goes into a character that really determines if they are a good or bad character. Having a character you hate because of their actions is a dislikable character but the writing is good! So it's a good written character. When I say worst characters or characters I don't like I go on the writing.
Some of the phrasing makes me think of: "You are a bad guy.. but that does not make you a bad *guy*"
Joey definitely knows somebody who was touched by Oreimo. *cough* Garnt *cough*
last guy made a whole essay lmao
to be completely honest, I believe the final patreon hasn't really tried to look more into deku's character as a whole, during the many different story arcs you see past the first season you can definitely notice a big change in deku's character as a whole, and it becomes highly noticeable during recent chapters. Not going to mention exactly why because it is in deed a spoiler, but you should not be completely put off just because deku seems superficial at first.
im so shook that no one mentioned kazuy from rent-a-gf lol
I gotta disagree with that Deku one, king.
I am not going to focus on how the inflated list use the same reasons multiple times. I'll just offer my -opinion- accidental thesis about deku below.
First, to answer some of Blake's main points quickly (take this as a tl;dr):
1. Deku only had a year or less to prepare to even *have* One For All--a power owned by the No. 1 hero--how can he *not* break his body in the beginning? Luffy can't use his gum gum fruit power in the beginning as well and he got years to train before episode 1, Deku didn't.
2. Deku is wimpy because he lack quirks which most people have, it would take a particular strong mind to not feel insecure about it.
I think that Deku is rather different from other anime MC that he does not have confidence or is already somewhat strong genetically. Take Naruto, from what I know he used to be very bad in ninjutsu and is isolated, but he has Nine Tail's power (and is soon unlocked in the first few episode) and his parents' gene that eventually came to play, heck his previous life become a thing of relevance eventually. If Naruto is behind on the starting line, Deku couldn't even enter the race. He is quirkless. All he has is the will to become a hero and through shear chance, he met All Might. Now he got what he lacked to be a hero: a quirk. He can finally has a chance to enter the race, but first, he needs to train really, really hard in only a year or less to even get to have that quirk.
Most of the MC had very tough training as a premise, but Deku can't even do that before the show, since he doesn't have quirks and doesn't know he will get one. So realistically he only had about a year or less to catch up, so of course he is going to break his body using the literal number 1 hero in the world's power.
And now that he just got the quirk, his confidence, power, and will as a hero are slowly matching up. He grew more and more confident as the season went on, albeit a slow one. He slowly getting more confident to face the villain, , or whatever obstacles, in front of him (e.g. getting used to his "new quirks" or catching up to Endeavor during intern). He is a hero-in-the-making, which is the whole point of the show. It is really interesting to see how other characters' ideal influenced him and make him become the ideal hero he wants to be.
I really agree with your opinion. I've seen many people HATE deku just for some random reasons, if you don't like him it's okay. But he is a good character.
@@user-mAfuNqrSe020x Exactly !!
As for ideas for future Let’s Fights, I have a couple of suggestions for consideration.
Dumbest Concept for an Anime
Most Overplayed Song (anime or otherwise)
Most Annoying Mascot Character
Least Appealing Love Interest
Most Overrated Anime Series
He is about to regret every single comment he gave about eren. Oh my god this March is gonna be a sh1tstorm
A let's fight episode.. This is my new fav channel
Maybe something cool to add to the series would be having the higher tier patrons (I'm not even a patron) be able to join a discord chat and explain the nuance of their opinion.
This would honestly take way more effort and if I were in your position I wouldn't do it just because of that extra effort cost but if your up to it, I think it could be really cool, both as a viewer and in giving the patrons something unique for their support.
or they just could type out an essay and make things easier?
Love your 2nd channel videos man, got a chill vibe to them
Sees title: Ah, so it's about Kirito then.
Yes
just makes me think about the incredible feat of SAO Abridged transforming Kirito into a good, well-written character by leaning into the "sociopathy as a cover for deep-seated emotional issues" aspect.
@@the4xgamer765 no
@@dvillines26 kirito is good lol
3:18 Joey reaction 'what?'
Deku can be pretty annoying and has legitimate character flaws in later arcs but that list is full of none reasons as to why one might think he’s the worst main character. He’s not my favourite character by any means but he has some great aspects to him that many choose to ignore and he doesn’t even come close to being the worst MC in anime.
Fantastic video, but i can't help but think that joey's neclace looks like is in front of a green screen trough out the entire video. XD
He doesnt know the answer to this question is Eren Yeager
Can’t wait for THAT episode of Trash Taste... we all know it’s gonna be a wild few months
Okay
Joey thinking the patron meant that Eren was hateable was the best. Eren is a bad character regardless of being an antagonist or not. "It's a spoiler why", THAT Trash Taste will indeed be glorious
I will still disagree that he is the worst mc , in the entirety of anime history.
Ash always using Pikachu is like Harry Potter using Expelliarmus
lmao that essay on Deku "he's a bland rip-off... now here's a hundred reasons why he's actually interestingly flawed and with a natural naiveté that allows room to mature into a respectable hero organically"
Don't get me wrong, Deku's super annoying, but he's annoying in a very natural way
I think that take was probably a joke. At least the tail end of it was. Look at stuff like point 22 and point 24. "This one is for all the other times he had to make out with recovery granny. I swear he gets hurt on purpose." Some of this stuff made me crack the hell up.
deku is really inconsistent and doesn't act as human as the other characters. He feels more like a plot device than a main character especially in the night eye arc. He has been altruistic the whole show even when his idol All Might constantly tells him not to, he wouldn't listen to him. So why does he let a clearly abused girl in his arms go back to a obvious villain? plot lol that's the only real consistent thing about him. 1,000,000% plot ,extra quirks out of nowhere etc. i ilke the show but i just really hate deku he is the worst.
tldr: deku is just like kirito.
@@Idcidancecool
Ok well for one All Might doesn't tell him to stop listening to him, other characters tell Deku to stop trying to emulate All Might so much and they do explain why he let Eri go and that's because Mirio pushed him to do so because he didn't want to fight Overhaul in public and it would screw up their sting. It's also established both Mirio and him are really upset they had to let Eri go when they saw just how messed up what Overhaul was doing was.
@@mikemorro140 ???? That’s like the first episode though when he runs in with a backpack to fight a slime monster and the whole reason all might even gives him his powers but what Night says is so much more important lol plot
@@Idcidancecool
All Might isn't reward Deku for not listening to him per se, All Might saw that despite being quirkless Deku still rushed in to try to help plus he has that line about heroes running in before they even know it. It's also established later that he felt some kinship with Deku since they were both quirkless. It's not just plot the series goes more into it as time goes on about how All Might being so reckless and all is why he got so injured and that Deku was following that path as well and that doing it like that is bad.
Literally, the only reason I watched Pokémon as a kid was for Team Rocket. They were the only characters I cared about and I still love those guys to this day. ❤️🚀💙
Well that explains why there's no more "answer me Senpai"
THERE ON THE FUCKING PATERON
i am addicted to joeys second channel its so random and fun and frequent videos feels very homey and nice
LETS FIGHT : THEAN1MEMAN is a bad MC ...
it was THEMANGAMAN all along (shoutouts to THEHENTA1BOY I love him as well)
Good ol days
Love the greatest teeth in the game vibe dude, itd be interesting to see you do one on openings and endings with Anthony fantano
Joey I think the Eren comment was talking about the actual ending of Attack on Titan not the fact that Eren is now a genocidal maniac
It definitely was, you probably doesn't know the ending
@@grov3823 its gonna be animated soon I wonder how that'll go lol
I will still disagree that he is the WORST mc in entirety of anime history.
Hey Joey, how about an episode on the worst/best anisongs (or just popular song nowdays)?