DUDEK HADRON 3 Review Part 2 - Going the distance
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- The new DUDEK HADRON 3 part 2. is really growing on me. Its easier to launch, superb handling for what I want out of an xc wing. I still get the smile when I land because it just keeps showing what its capable of when flown well. Its certainly been dialed back from the XX but not in a bad way, its not got the top end speed but has improved its efficiency as it now flies further up the trimmer range for the same amount of power.
Its still fickle to launch but they have vastly improved the handling. It's rock solid when hands off.
I'n no test pilot but a keen cross country pilot, the new Hadron 3 is going to be my only wing of choice now. Lets get the camping kit, set heading and fly off beyond the horizon.
A huge thank you must be said to Clive Bunce (UK Dudek Importer) and Clive Mason for helping me get the wing so quickly. Paul Mockford created the thumbnail as I'm rubbish at making, thanks buddy.
www.cmparamotor...
Happy and Safe flying everyone.
Kit and equipment that i use for my Vlogs:
The Aircraft that I am flying is a
Parajet Maverick Moster 185 Plus
The wing is a Hadron 3 size 22,
My radio and communications set up is:
ICARO Scrab Helmet with MicroAvionics PM100 (Vlog modified by MicroAviconics)
www.microavion...
...
My Airband radio ( I have the appropriate Licences) is :
www.microavion...
...
Camera and Microphones:
Flight Briefing room
Sony HX300 and a ICE microphone
Flying cameras
GoPro 3+, GP6 and 7.
Flying Clothing:
FlyKandy Jacket and trousers
OZEE flying suit and OZEE mittens with woolen mittens inside.
30Seven heated gloves
Another thought: you certainly are a numbers guy. I fly mainly on feel. Both the numbers and feel are relevant. Great video!
The watering eyes at full bar was a good indicator. I know what you mean. I could tell by feel that after 9 was going to make the engine thirsty. I just love the hands off feel of the wing. It now flies straight and eats the miles. I can't wait to go paracamping.
I love the graph you made. I saw you flying hands off almost the whole time, that's where this wing excels! This is the most advanced wing that you can buy but still be able to fly hands off almost all the time. Thanks for sharing
For me, this is why the Hadron XX is staying in the bag. I can see long flights, stress free flying.. If you look at the end as I'm coming through the clouds, I'm just using a little bit of weight shift to change my heading. I'm loving it. I really can't wait for you to fly one.
Hey Mitch, you mentioned the Driftair to be very pitch stable, how was roll stability and hands off flying?
Giles, I was dead set on getting the Driftair but your review of the H3 has me second guessing my wing selection 👍
@@weenan wing loading plays a big part in roll stability but the driftair is less roll stable than a snakexx but more than the warp. Any oscillations can easily be stopped with just a tiny bit of weight shift. It wont oscillate in butter air but might a little in bumpy air
Thank you for sharing your knowledge regarding paramotoring and ultralights. Enjoy your videos ! I've been an aviation enthusiast since a child. Got my pilots license at 19. Spent many years soaring over the Nevada desert. Always wanted to get into paramotoring or Rev X type machines. Your videos are inspiring. Thanks !
Flying is one of those things, once you start, it's just so hard to stop. You certainly have a spread of flying experience.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 I agree ! Just like gold prospecting. Never a cure for the fever, except more of it ! Cheers mate !
Cracked my head on these numbers Giles. I know where you coming from when trying to find the most economic cruise speed but here is the wrench in the works 1. If you are in a XC race all day long speed does matter because the later in the day you fly, the greater the chance is going to be that you are forced to land due to weather or increase in headwind. So the distance covered in the best weather conditions counts most. 2. Taking into account that speed is relevant, how can one get a better position on the curve? Well that comes down to improving power to weight ratio whilst not sacrificing too much. A larger engine will give better numbers as it can maintain the right speed at a lower RPM. Like I said, this is actually a mind boggling science project. I would pick the Hadron 3 over the XX because of the easy launch but the ‘ground roll’ that you describe is something that puts me off. As you know, in the Icarus, its tight TO spots and you need max climb rate from the get go. The Warp solved every single point on this for me because of the rapid climb rate with a trims closed TO technique AND the efficient high cruise speed. The Hadron 3 is rated at 58km/hr max trim and that only improves with additional wingloading. The Warp is rated at 71. I found these number to be spot on. So in order to improve YOUR cruise speed, you need to focus on the engine and prop. When I started racing I was burning 5.5 liters per hour on a 230 cc engine running the XX at max wing load. But the bigger the displacement, the more fuel you burn the more fuel you got to carry in order to maintain a max cruise and so the curve does not improve. I found that focus on improving power to weight ratio helped me decrease the displacement to 200cc whilst increasing the thrust through a better prop design and pitch. The Warp eats less fuel at a higher speed but that also means have enough thrust. If I go full bar on the Warp the game is lost as the fuel burn goes through the roof. The max cruise is actually the sweet spot for distance covered taking into account the realistic weather and wind changes one would face. You see my point of view? 🤯
I do see your point. But the key for me is not racing. I just want to fly on long xcs and go camping. If I was racing then as you say the figures need to focus on the wing loading and I have the wrong size wing. I'm happy with fact that the H3 is just so hands off. Is it going to compete with the Warp, no different league. 300 hours needed for the Warp, the H3 brings more pilots into a good solid xc wing earlier.
Agreed on all. It definitely will open up an option for more pilots getting into XC. Certainly more exciting option then the Solo which is also a great option for guys starting PPG because of their interest in XC. Keep the science and tests flowing my friend. I will have something to show in curve improvement in about 30 days
@@therealeugenecussons if you are ever in the UK, drop me a message.. I know you are famous but it would be good to meet up and chat long flight stories.
For sure bud. But small correction. I use to be famous. Retired now 😂. Flying is my passion so getting into the grit of it what we are doing, same as you guys, is awesome!
Great work thanks for publishing it 🙏
Hi Gavin, I'm glad it was helpful.
Great informative little video for anyone interested in this new wing. looks to be a cracking XC wing. looking forward to you taking us on some adventures with it buddy!
I'll try Kyle.
Glad you've found your ideal XC wing Giles. No more nemesis wing:)
Yes, Sandy, genuinely over the moon.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 WOW Giles. That has to be a new altitude record:)
there's an analogy there with kayaks, as you paddle faster you produce a bow wave which slows you down so there is a sweet spot in paddle speed as well
Wow, that takes me back to younger days. I know what you mean though, it was just nice paddling with the flow, any faster was just a slog...unless it was a K2 canoe.
Oh man, now I want H3 for my XC flying. I have HXX but if H3 launches easier and more stable but still as efficient - it is a clear winner for my taste
Hi Max, it suits what I need for an Xc wing. The old Hadron XX is staying in the bag now.
Please excuse me asking an "off subject" question but I have been looking at the three options of sub 70 trikes, including the Peabee, which is my preferred option. They all seem to land very "flat" i.e. all three wheels touch almost simultaneously, unlike larger trikes which I'm used to. It's a worry as it is useful to be able to touch down with the rear wheels first to straighten the trike in a cross wind.
On take-off, the rear wheels definitely remain on the ground longer, but the thrust of the engine on take off lifts the front wheel.
This almost 3 point landing seems to be a feature of these really low weight weightshifts.
I'd love to hear your views on this Thanks, Richard.
Hello Richard, no problem with the off topic question. Yes they do seem to land very flat and when i first flew mine i had the same worry about keeping the nose wheel off the ground for x-wind landings. Most of my flights bar a few are nearly always x-wind and I haven't had any issues what so ever. It doesn't worry me and I just fly it normally as the overall weight and inertia is very low keeping the side forces to a minimum. I hope that helps.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Many thanks for replying. I think is an inertia / momentum matter due, as you say, to very low weight. Would you consider showing me your Pea bee as Sywell is a fair treck from Devon.
A walk round answers a hundred questions. Best regards, Richard
Thanks Giles, definitely a wing that catches my eye.. great vid.
Cheers Gareth. It's certainly one I will be keeping for a while.
Great review Giles, really like the facts & figures. Also appreciate your opinion on launch characteristics and the wing's proper usage. Thumbs up!
Cheers Doug. I like that Dudek have made a wing for one purpose. Its not going to be a wing to blow all others away but if XC is your thing, then its a good contender.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Agreed, a reasonable launch and solid in the bumpy air is what I want for my XC (next) wing.
That is a great review Giles, you certainly have me tempted 👍
Its a cracking wing.
First! Am I first?
Edit: Hell yes I am!
Great analysis of your new wing. So much potential for XC adventures.
I do agree, it's about distance covered using the fuel you have. It's also great to run these tests to find out the best efficency for your personal setup. My results would be different so 'book specifications' are only a guide!
Look forward to more of your adventures Giles!
😂 you beat me to it!
Will you did have a pre-screening. Glad you liked it.
Giles would say that paramotoring is maybe becoming more and more popular to the extent that people are turning away from traditional fixed-wing stuff like Cessna's and even some microlights and doing paramotoring instead?
Hi David, I think its very much down to your own circumstances. Microlights require formal training and licencing, airfields, storage etc. Paramotoring can be very cheap to get into however, some do it without training and have some success. Paramotoring is very rewarding in the right conditions and can allow for some amazing personal achievements. To answer your question, paramotoring allows the person who doesn't have the funding to afford a Microlight or fixed wing flying, the opportunity to experience the joy of flying. I was a frustrated ex PPL(A) pilot and the only way at the time, to get myself in the air was with a paramotor. Is it better or worse, no its just different.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Thanks Giles who was the organization that taught you paramotoring, please?
@@flybe146 I learnt through work with the BHPA syllabus for paragliding some 11 years ago and then continued with the BHPA when I learnt to paramotor. Never looked back since.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Cheers thanks Giles
Great part 2! I still want one 😂
Wait for a bit buddy.
Fantastic. Thank you!
I'm glad it helped. Its a great wing and certainly one that I have been waiting for and well worth the wait.
Giles, can you adjust the torque adjust line in flight? Or, is it something you set on the ground? Thanks.
You set it on the ground. Mine only needed a few extra wraps. Then mine flew straight and true. I hope that helps.
Brilliant review again mate. cheers!
Thank you! Cheers!
@4:10 you talked about going faster with a small wing - what is the best small wing you'd recommend? Could you have used a smaller Hadron 3 instead? How about a 16m wing?
It was a reference to the fact of wing loading. By having a smaller wing your wing loading is higher, and naturally will be less efficient. I'd go back to your instructor and ask for a recommendation. There are too many factors to help you safely on here.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Have you ever flown one of those speedwings on your paramotor?
@@manofsan no, I've never flown one as they are not tested for paramotor use. Speed wings are inherently inefficient due to their large cell openings.
Great review Giles!
It's the geeky bit I liked.
What, no Tiggy to give fuel flow rates? 😉😄
Trust you Chris.haha. Nope the Tiggy is firmly in the PeaBee, how is your coming along?
Golf Foxtrot 22 seeing Ben week next Wednesday to have a chat
I still want to have the Hadron 3 in my arsenal. I really love my Warp though. I have a hard time believing that it gets much better...
You'll be surprised. But you like a spicy wing. This is a good wing for covering long distances.
Main difference for me is roll stability. Flying Warp at full speeds (trims out and speed bar) it would oscilate a bit. Not dangerously rolling but it would get annoying after some time. Hadron3 doesn't do that. Another huge difference is that Warp brake handles go very high when wing is flown at full speeds. That also gets annoying when flying XC. Nothing new here :) Warp is comp glider and Hadron3 is XC machine. I love Warp speeds and efficiency when flying XC but I feel like I was just using wrong tool for the job. The two are distinctly different and that's an asset now.
@@DarekMagusiak I had that same issue with the Hadron XX, it wasn't bad just annoying and after a 3 hour flight the world could look a little green. The H3 is solid... an I'm loving it. It might not have the full bar speed but I don't want it for that.
Great video , thanks for all the info, what’s your all in weight On the Hadron 3 ?
I was 118kgs flying weight, so in the mid range. It is a wing that flies well in the upper mid range. Glad the video was useful.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 thank you , I just bought a 20 meter H3 but I am going to be very very close to the recommendation of 120 kg. My all in weight will around 125 kgs and I was just wondering if I should have gone with a 22 instead of a 20. Thanks for the reply.
@@sergiojmena As you are over the max weight I can only recommend getting the bigger wing. It will make your landings and take-offs easier as well as using less fuel for xc. If not a wing I would recommend flying over weight.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 will do just that, thx again.
Hi Giles what was your all up take off weight for this test and have you flown in turbulent conditions yet? Any comments about the latter?
I'm about 118kgs, 125 is max for normal flying. Yes I have flown in thermic and rough conditions. Have a look in Paranoobs EOS second video czcams.com/video/w6jf-OoqrqY/video.html 6:27 and it was a 5star glider day for thermals. It just punches in and out of thermals with no fuss, much more stable than the Hadron XX.
Great video Giles. Always enjoy them. Where would you say this wing falls in at with respect to the passive safety factor? EN-C like? Intermediate or more Advanced?
I have no idea where it would sit with regards to passive safety but I'm feeling very comfortable with it, as you probably noticed, I'm not using the controls much. It's only slightly dialed back from the Hadron XX but they have worked some magic because its got the stability and comfort. It will go if pushed as I showed a in my first part so I'd give. It respect. It's definitely an advanced wing as when it goes, you'll need to give it a hand.
Hey Giles. Do you know what your clip-in weight is with these numbers?
Hi RIc completely forgot to put that in the main video, I must add it to the description. I was 118kgs. I want to go back now and perform the same test on my Hadron xx 22.
I've tested Niviuk Qubik and at 23m@130kg, I've got speeds & rpms very close to your numbers +/- 2 kph and +/- 200 rpms
Paramotor wings are so close now. If you want something more, you have to loose it elsewhere. The Kougar 3 was a prime example. Push it too far and it pops.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 what's interesting though is that Qubik achieves this at much lower aspect ratio of 5.5. I'd love to test flight Hadron 3 to compare how it handles!
@@mattg7842 I just watched your video, you didn't do a wind speed correction calculation. I calculated your average wind speed to be 10kph, so you would need to add and subtract that from your upper and lower speeds. The wind speed is calculated by taking the top speed, subtracting the lower speed and then dividing by 2.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 I did exactly that. I don't undestand, where in your opinion I did not do that?
@@mattg7842 I was going on your comments in the video. If I misunderstood, no worries. I hope you can get hands on a H3 and compare. It looks like a lovely area that you fly from.
Thank you very much for this thorough review Giles.... I'm looking for a much more efficient wing that is still able to throw down in turns and such. This sounds like it does both. Currently flying a 22m Paramania GTR and love it, but it eats gas! I'm about a 150 hour pilot that is fine tuning my wingovers and such. Your thoughts on this wing as a replacement or compliment to my GTR for those days I want to stay up longer? Appreciate it.
The GTR is quite dated now and as you say, thursty. The Hadron 3 will be immediately a game changer, efficient, fast and fantastically balanced handling. I hope both videos helped.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Awesome. Thanks again.
One more question if you don't mind. If takeoff is recommended at trim 3 and best cruising is around 9 for your weight, what would you use trims 0-3 for??? Low flight for max lift? Sounds like 3 is max lift? Thoughts?
3 is the best balance for the launch characteristics of the wing, stops it hanging back, but you can once airborne pull them in to full slow, if you were thermalling etc. 3 and above is fine. It's a bit like Ozone wings, they have a white line and I never found a reason to go full slow, even landing. I generally kept the wing trimmed 3 and above, even for landing, to keep the energy up for landing.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Thank you.
Luvly Jubly 👍😀
Cheers Turbo.
39mph at full bar? XX does that just with trims out. Have Dudek snipped that much off the top speed?
That's airspeed. It's only 7mph less. But I'm never going to fly long xc flight in Bar anyway. Its not all about speed.
Thanks for the great review! I probably missed the point somewhere. May I ask what your wheight and take off wheit is?
Hi Johannes, you didn't miss it I forgot to put it in the video. I'm 79 kgs and my ready to fly weight is 115kgs, which puts me nicely in the middle of the weight range. I'm glad you liked it. I wanted to make a useful reference video, rather than just throwing a wing around the sky. Even though its still fun to do that.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Thanks a lot! I'm 83kg, so probably size 22 would be a perfect fit. Still deciding between the new speedster 3 and the hadron. Any thoughts on that? Did you have the chance to demo the speedster? Thanks!
@@johannesneu7176 Ozone did offer me the opportunity to test the S3 but I'm not in a position to fly it atm. If I'm really honest, I am so smitten with the H3 as a pure xc wing, I wouldn't want anything else.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Very much appreciated!
another great video Giles
Thanks Lee. I try too make useful videos.
So your fuel consumption is about 4.5L / h on trim setting 9?
Anything less than 58 on my Maverick and I get 4 lph or less. I used exactly 2 litres in 35 minutes doing all the tests.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 ok thanks, but i think if you flew in thermic conditions (lift+sink) the results could be very different then when you would have flewn at sunset.
@@IvoBELGIUM Very true. If I drive in hilly areas, I don't get the same MPH as if I drive on the flat. The tests I did for this video were done purely to get a benchmark, anything else is far game. It it was a thermic day I'd probably use less fuel as I'd use the thermals to aid my climbs, then get above the clouds. I did this on the Icarus race. So much smoother above them.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 I will be testing the Kougar 3 soon, would be good to compare the statistics :)
@@IvoBELGIUM I will certainly be leaving that one to you ;)
What Is your weight?
My weight Is around 92 kg, what Is the correct size for me?
My all up flying weight, ready to go with a half tank of fuel is about 118kgs. I can't advise on the correct size as I don't know your flying weight. Have a look at the link as it will give the wing flying weights. www.dudek.eu/en/products/hadron-3.html. I'm assuming your an experienced pilot and just asking which size is ideal?
@@GolfFoxtrot22 thankyou
Sorry mate but your analysis is wrong. First, from trim 9 to 12 the speed increases linearly with rpm so they are equally thrust efficient. Second, without plotting fuel burn you can’t estimate range and it is maximum range that defines best efficiency and is most practically useful for XC. Finally, as others have pointed out, sometimes you just need to go fast to get where you need to be in the time you have, last light being an obvious example. With love, Ken
Cheers Ken