In Search Of Healthy Masculinity
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2023
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SOURCES
Frank BW. 1991. Everyday/everynight masculinities: The social construction of masculinity among young men.
SIECCAN Journal 6: 27-37.
Baugher, A. & Gazmararian, J. (2015). Masculine gender role stress and violence: A literature review of future directions. Aggression and Violent Behavior, 24, 107-112. doi: 10.1016/j.avb.2015.04.002.
RUDA, F. (2016). Abolishing Freedom: A Plea for a Contemporary Use of Fatalism. University of Nebraska Press. doi.org/10.2307/j.ctt1d4v0t3
^ Serano, Julia. "Whipping Girl: A Transsexual Woman on Sexism and the Scapegoating of Femininity," Seal Press, 2007.
Taylor, Charles, 1931-. The Ethics of Authenticity. Cambridge, Mass. :Harvard University Press, 1991.
Richardson, William J. (1963). Heidegger. Through Phenomenology to Thought. Preface by Martin Heidegger. The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff Publishers. 4th Edition: 2003. New York City: Fordham University Press. p. 37. ISBN 978-0-823-22255-1. ISBN 0-82322255-1.
Bech, H. (2014). Missing From Masculinity Studies: Aesthetics, Ethics, Existence. Masculinities: A Journal of Identity and Culture, 1(2), 6-30. masculinitiesjournal.files.wo...
The Conversation Project (2015). Gender Performance: An Interview with Judith Butler. Available at: radfem.transadvocate.com/gende...
Ashley, F., & Ells, C. (2018). In favor of covering ethically important cosmetic surgeries: Facial feminization surgery for transgender people. The American Journal of Bioethics, 18(12), 23-25. 10.1080/15265161.2018.1531162 [PubMed] [CrossRef] [Google Scholar] [Ref list]
Scott, John, ed. (2015) [1994]. "Hegemonic masculinity". A Dictionary of Sociology (4th ed.). Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press. p. 302. doi:10.1093/acref/9780199683581.001.0001. ISBN 9780191763052. LCCN 2014942679.
Zhuangzi Z. & Watson B. (2003). Zhuangzi : basic writings. Columbia University Press.
Boettcher N, Mitchell J, Lashewicz B, Jones E, Wang J, Gundu S, Marchand A, Michalak E, Lam R. Men's Work-Related Stress and Mental Health: Illustrating the Workings of Masculine Role Norms. Am J Mens Health. 2019 Mar-Apr;13(2):1557988319838416. doi: 10.1177/1557988319838416. PMID: 30880590; PMCID: PMC6438430.
Connell, R. W (1995) Masculinities. Cambridge: Polity Press
Burton Watson (1964), Chuang tzu: Basic Writings, New York: Columbia University Press; 2nd edition (1996); 3rd edition (2003) converted to pinyin.
D’Ambrosio, P., & Moeller, H.-G. (2018). Authority without Authenticity: The Zhuangzi’s Genuine Pretending as Socio-Political Strategy. Religions, 9(12), 398. MDPI AG. Retrieved from dx.doi.org/10.3390/rel9120398
McGuire, J. K., & Reilly, A. (2022). Aesthetic Identity Development Among Trans Adolescents and Young Adults. Clothing and Textiles Research Journal, 40(3), 235-250. doi.org/10.1177/0887302X20975382 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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@Sisyphus 55
I have been struggling to find a video of yours I watched awhile ago. It involved something about the idea that there was a difference between "I" and "myself" talking about how if "I want to kill myself" then I must be different than myself. If you can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it loads!
what are your thoughts on hamza
@Zombieslayeraj pretty sure the vid is called "On Suicide"
@@crunchylettuce5446 thank you so much!
@@crunchylettuce5446 damn it wasn't that one lol
“If you wish, dress like a man, talk like a man, walk like a man, but stop when it begins to hurt those around you” absolutely droppin bars, man.
Am I the only one that thinks this is basically the tldr of this entire issue. Like it can be condensed to just be like this
Oh no, That would be letting others define you.
@@richardwilson3548 i’m gonna throw a punch at you and if you try to stop me you that would mean you’re trying to define me so don’t stop fight back okay?
@@Juantidote Your logic ...
*both yourself and those around you. important difference
I was raised a cowboy, and I am a rambler. Been though half the US and several other countries. I am also a cook/chef. I work in hyper masculine and high intensity situations. Recently in leadership positions and something I didn't realize that as a leader in these area is that the hardest part of working with other men and being who I am is that I tend to shake the foundation of what masculinity is. I still wear hats and boots, and look like I'm ready to buck bails at a drop of a hat, but at times will wear make up. I talk openly about struggles that men go through silently and try to create open discourse.
The best piece of advice I ever got was from a lifer who owned the largest cattle operation in my county. He was in his 70s and I was a 7 mixed/black child in an area where there were no other blacks. I asked him why I was made fun of and called the n word so often. And why the other kids thought it was weird that I enjoyed things like flowers and braiding the horse's mains. He told me every cowboy rides his horse, and no one can tell them how else to do it and then laughed. And I've lived with that since.
I really enjoyed this comment! It’s definitely a lot easier to be comfortable with yourself when you’re not trying to be something else
Old people giving good advice is extremely enjoyable for some reason.
Seems like they had a positive effect on you.
No true Scotsman. No true cowboy. And that’s a pretty cool story cowboy👏🏾😌
this really warms my heart, thanks for sharing
In my country we have a saying for that which says "every brave man's eating ways of yogurt differ" meaning we're all different in some aspects than others and there isn't always one right way to do things.
This is my favourite type of catharsis, gaining the language to describe how you've been living your life
Couldn't have said it better my friend. These videos help me understand not just the world but myself more and more.
What a cute comment
Indeed, machan.
Never actually realized that that’s why I watch so many videos on topics like this, but now that I’ve read this and thought about it, it is a form of catharsis.
So beautifully put, friend. Thank you for writing this down.
Wish I could have healthy conversations about masculinity with my friends. Need more people willing to openly talk about this
Look for new friends, you have the tools to find them!
On the other hand, I don't know the situation, but maybe talking to your friends in a different way or talking to them individually would help (it worked for me sometimes).
Maybe you can! Maybe you need to hear them first, though. And it's not easy.
Maybe you could send this this video?
Honest
Find some gym bros
I really like the Jungian notion that being a mature / individuated adult means you can move freely between polarities or dialectics as needed. That’s real freedom.
Exactly what I’m talking about! We shift and drift around! 😂
Polarities or dialectics? What do you mean
what if you lose yourself in that fluidity, then what are you? I think it's more being able to dabble in what's out of your comfort zone while keeping the core mostly stable
@@thomasbeaumont8884 I mean moving between masculine and feminine, strong and soft, fast and slow, passive and active, etc
@@bepishombre8999 then you’re free
Considering how much femininity is associated with aesthetic, it makes sense that masculinity is mostly confined to it as well.
🤔Hmmm...
Thats a great point, well put. I hadn't considered it.
Thank you kindly.
Aesthetic is a blanket term that literally applies to almost everything. The men who stayed on the titanic weren't twirling mustaches. Masculinity is about principles and ego. It's not all cowboy boots and having short hair
@@theredgoblin562 🤓
How is femininity any more associated with “aesthetic” than masculinity? They have different aesthetic qualities, everybody acknowledges this.
@@N19N90N9 I never said it's more associated with aesthetic than masculinity, in fact my comment was implying they are equal in that regard. Not everyone acknowledges this, there are people in this very comment section disagreeing with this.
The entire bit on "genuine pretending" reminds me of the portion of the Myth of Sisyphus where Camus discusses actors and their relationship to absurdism. The entire concept of genuine pretending is so novel, I think it's at the top of my research list. Thanks for the headway.
reading the Myth of Sisyphus rn!! very pleasant, light hearted read imo, while touching such important topics. Today's society needs Camus' writing to be more known.
@@gkountilas Im gonna check out Camus
Welcome to Daoism. Moeller, to which the video was referencing, has his own CZcams channel called Carefree Wandering, also with videos explaining Daoism and using the concepts to analyse contemporary problems. He also has great books (one of which was shown in this video too). Check him out, he made the philosophy easier to access for everyone.
Camus is the G.O.A.T 🐐
The core of my own masculinity is self definition. I am what I am because I want to be that. I wear my hair long, I like cooking, lifting, emotional openness, etc. And no matter what anyone else thinks about these things, the only determination is that I, and I alone, like them. External validation is nice, but reliance on it for a sense of internal completeness is unreliable at best and utterly destructive at worst. For a lot of dudes, this means validation in relationships with women, but it also means from your fellow men (especially in the case of these alpha/beta/ligma frameworks of thought). It doesn't matter if someone thinks you knitting is 'low T' or some shit. Do you enjoy it? Dope; embrace that shit and live your best life, my man. The peace you seek for yourself is strongest when it is self affirming.
Its also to say: this what people talk about when they say focus on yourself if you want a relationship. When you assert yourself and your own interests earnestly and honestly, the confidence and enjoyment that you instill into yourself is infectious to the people around you. And that IS attractive.
Very well written! Absolutely agree, and I think it can go both way as far as physical gender. Whatever makes you feel authentically yourself and learning to enjoy being yourself without needing external validation or taking away from/hurting others to feel whole.
That was beautifully said!
Very based 💪🔥
But that's not 'masculinity' that's just individualism. You could be all these things no matter your gender. That's why you said "my own masuclinity" change masculinity w any other word you can add a description to and you get the same result.
@@DoomShrm because there is no essence of a specific gender. A person's gender means whatever they want it to mean, so is necessarily individualistic and will not match anyone else's ideas on gender
This stuff sucks man. As someone who grew up with healthy male figures (father, uncle's, older brothers and cousins) I really can only empathize and sympathize with young men that are missing those vital things.
It's possible to still grow well-rounded without them, but VERY difficult (as I've seen from some friends).
What I can offer is this simple but ageless wisdom; it is NOT ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN. Never has been. Learn about THE WORLD. About the human experience as a whole, nature, art, beauty, history, philosophy, and you will undoubtedly find what and/or who you seek. But it will not solve all your problems, or give you all the answers. You still have to live the uncertainty of life just as anyone else.
Love this.
I didn't have these figures growing up but I as someone relatively enjoying my life and relationships compared to my past self I can give my wisdom in life,to the one's who want to hear it. Sometimes in life you may feel like everything and every problem comes from these lack of supportive figures in your childhood/teenage years and that may be in fact true. But if you want overcome those you gotta see those problems as symptoms that can be treated. Even if you can't cure or fix the core of your problems,you can grow around them and make those problems smaller.
Agreed.
The only thing I'd add is to learn about the world or the parts of the world you feel passionate about, not for the purpose of eventually "getting dates". Don't let others tell you "what will work" when thinking about what areas to explore. Explore the areas you genuinely want to.
That "genuineness" is very attractive to both men and women. It will produce a true confidence, not just the appearance of confidence (what we might call "bravado").
Part of it is that many men have male figures in their lives but not healthy male figures. Sometimes these figures just don’t have enough of a presence, or sometimes they are legitimately toxic.
❣️❣️❣️
I grew up in a conservative city that prides itself upon its macho culture. People literally dress in jeans, boots and cowboy hats even if there aren't any farms nearby. "Being a man" is drinking beer, grilling beef, watching sports, being unfaithful to your partner, and not expressing any emotion other than anger or pride. It's a sad but true stereotype. Arts and crafts, cooking, literature, philosophy, psychology and so on are frowned upon. This type of upbringing even affects females; in my city many women act out traits which would be considered to be "toxic masculinity" in other cultures.
Growing up I always loved painting, drawing, reading, dressing "nicely", cooking and making poetry. Because of this, for years people insulted me and implied I wasn't "man enough." Not having a healthy psychological upbringing made me unable to cope with these things and developed into an identity crisis. I never felt attracted to men but I still I questioned if I was gay or if something was wrong with me because I didn't feel as if I fit anywhere. I struggled with this all the way through my 20s, but reading (especially Jung) helped me a lot. Don't we both have a femenine and masculine side, and, what is wrong with being a man who likes supposedly "womanly" things?
I am 34 years old now, I'm a graphic designer, I love art, design, color, literature, cooking and so on. I feel like this is my way of being "a man", or, more accurately, being a person. My girlfriend actually likes these traits and it contributes to us having a healthy relationship. In retrospective I think that identity crisis and suffering was "worth it" because today I feel very comfortable in my own skin. I am a man who likes thinks my society sees as "girly" and I'm OK with it, I even find lots of comedy in being the "odd guy" and not fitting in with the BBQ dads and their mancaves.
If you're a male teen living in a conservative place, and feel like society is dissapointed by you not fitting into the macho mold, don't worry, you can be a man who likes "womanly" things and that doesn't make you any less important, valuable, and more importantly so, it doesn't make you any less of a man. And I think it takes a "man" to acknowledge that.
I am like this and had a similar life, but I grew up on a farm hauling and toiling, served in the military, work in EMS, and I'm a big guy.
It always baffles me in a way how someone people, especially those who know me well view me as girly, not manly and soft. While people who don't know me well perceive me as this big scary man that could break you in half. I'm 22 and I've made peace with my identity and how I view myself, even if it's contradicting and hard to understand for others
I grew up around this kind of sentiment and unfortunately some family shares this sentiment still. For me I don’t really care about masculinity. I do a lot of things considered masculine like amateur boxing. But I still sleep with stuffed animals. Masculinity to me is more defined as the ability to be caring and brave rather than dress a certain way. Unfortunately I found that many of the people who look like men aren’t. And the majority of people who don’t look like men, act more like them.
@@demonitized1020
Muh-sculinity
@@demonitized1020 Stuffed animals are great. Hell, I use them as pillows more than my wife does haha
@@cossaizy6309 Love yourself, be that happy gentle person and stand strong against the bullshizzle wave of stupidity. Cheers to you mate!
"Waste no time arguing what a good man should be. Be one" Marcus Aurelius
There is no such thing as a 'good man'. All people are capable of good, all people are also capable of bad
Also that phrase is dumb because people's definition of a 'good man' is different
@@painunending4610 You literally just contracticted yourself lm+ao
congrats you just ignored the entire first quarter of the video, being about vague senses of "good man" or "good person"
I recommend you guys watching "Everything Everywhere All At Once." The male protagonist "Waymond" is the definition of healthy masculinity, at least in my opinion.
So instead of being one role we didn't decide for ourselves we had another
You're making the box larger, but homie we tryin to get rid of the box
I highly recommend the Cinema Therapy video ‘Aragorn vs Toxic Masculinity’ which discusses how being a masculine man doesn’t require putting others down, or being dominant, or suppressing emotions, or treating women as lesser. You can be vulnerable and be a badass. Ofc real life is a lot more complex but it goes to show how we much people have hijacked and twisted the term masculinity, and in how much of a bad state discussion of gender roles still is, that there is so often still a rudimentary binary opposition between healthy traits and being masculine. How often ppl dismiss the idea of being vulnerable and open as something that a masculine man could do.
I grew up where being a man was built on being strong enough to protect those you cared about and to not give up when the chips were down. When I saw my dad act like that I'd hope that one day I'd be him. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do right
I feel the same. What I learnt from what my Dad showed me was to work hard and endure for the benefit of the people you care about, and to not complain about what life throws at you, but simply get on with it without fuss or complaint. Similar to what your dad taught do. Do what you must for the benefit of those you love.
I agree with your definition the most. Strength and endurance for the wife and kids, for the community. Never giving up, but also being humble enough to acknowledge your own flaws.
@@madv6715 but do you ever stand up? do you ever say "this shit is not gonna stand"? or do you just work and endure, work and endure?
say your people are screwed over. what then? do you just tell them it's a lesson and shrug it off? or will you rise to the occasion?
@@RatPfink66 commie talk
@@caralho5237 where does a man end and a commie begin
I can’t believe you’ve dropped this with such well timing, I’m sure others like myself have been struggling to find a good healthy way to feel reassured in our gender identities, love this video as usual ♥️
You probably shouldn't feel like you need the permission of society in order to authentically be.
I grew up without a father, so I had trouble coming to terms with what masculinity meant to me. I just am myself, ultra manly or not, I like what I like, no matter what people think. I like house plants and flowers, and various cutesy things, but I also like "manly" things as well, like grilling, shooting, and driving. I think the manliest thing you can do is not give a shit
Valuing beauty is not un manlly, the Greeks and Romans did as did many others. Which building do you prefer the gorgeous imperius architecture on this stone monument to civilization that inspires public collective pride in the nation and each other or efficient cube, holds 100 mc.donalds (makes area smell goblin beef)
@@ffh1542 i agree with you. Beauty is truly what makes humans human. How we can turn rocks and dirt into cathedrals, or how we can turn ink and paper into books. I feel like modernity has put beauty on the wayside for the sake of utilitarianism, but I wish we'd go back to making things for the sake of awe
Exactly everyone is thinking in a functional survival mindset when we are well past that, and looking to our art and ability to create may actually be what saves a society, the ability to create and think beyond survival and tell stories is human, and even for the hardcore utilitarian these things have deep functions that hold us together and push us forward that some and sometimes a lot of people don't see
I think the "manliest" or humanest thing you can do is to give a shit.
I'm a man who's always felt my gender was at best a detail of my full self. Gender becomes confusing when people take observations of common traits in a gender and try to either coerce people to adopt those traits or forbid the other gender from having those traits.
It’s fun to watch Sisyphus get better and better at drawing, at first it was non animated stick figures but now, it’s lookin rlly rlly good yk? Amazing video too
0:10 - "edited and animated by housecat" :)
@@linuswalden housecat also does the background groovies too, what an awesomesauce dude
Ooh cool, yeah his albums are great, he did a new one pretty recently and it’s really good
The spinning 3d stick figure is quite badass.
@@andremedeiros2991 fr
“What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!”
And a woman?
@@general_electrics _shatters glass_
"But enough talk. Have at you!"
Factually accurate
The Good, The Bad and The Sisyphus
Did you just call him ugly? ;)
@@linuswalden Well, there gotta be _some_ reason he never shows his face, don't you think?
(jk, in case someone's wondering)
@@lonestarr1490 he’s got a Q&A face reveal a little down in his channel too
I spent the most formative years of my life in an MMA gym. My instructor/the owner of the gym was one of the kindest, most humble people I’ve ever met. He treated and taught everyone equally, and quickly humbled anyone being misogynistic, homophobic or transphobic(my gym was in a very diverse college town, and welcomed anyone looking to get in shape or learn how to defend themselves.) He never took himself too seriously, despite the fact that he was an absolute (figurative) killer, often making jokes at his own expense just to make someone having a rough time laugh. He always went out of his way to help others, whether it was holding the door for people or helping his students find a place to live.
That’s the masculinity I strive for. It shouldn’t be about being “strong” enough to stand above everyone else, but having the strength to lift up those around you.
that sounds like an amazing gym and coach! where is your gym located?
🔥Slay🔥
Thats amazing, he sound awesome! Tho I will say that this sounds less like a representation of masculinity and more like being a generally good person
That last line is a fuckin banger 🔥🔥🔥
I too strive to have "the strength to lift up those around you."
Literally, in some ways lol. I wore a shirt to the Gym that says "Protect Trans Folks" from Transfigure Printing Co & an individual came up to me & complimented my shirt. I'm trying to be strong to help & defend others who are less fortunate or less accepted by broader society.
@@samykalacelle8143I’d say it’s masculine in the sense that the power is derived from physical strength and hierarchy, but it’s healthy because it’s used to help and protect, or at least I think so.
I am a man. I enjoy doing pretty much all the masculine stuff like fishing, exercising, fixing stuff,etc. They’re just what I like to do. But other people don’t like those and that’s chill. Live and let live is the key to most things. And be authentic.
I just wanna tell any young men that read this comment that being authentic with necessarily make people like you
I think the ending conclusion is generally a good sentiment for anyone right now. Be whatever you want until it starts hurting yourself and others. Don't take yourself too seriously when it doesn't work and have sympathy that others, because we're all in the same boat. Everyone is just trying to figure out who they want to be and the lack on understand has made us all so cynical. The street goes both ways, and frankly we all need to just give others the benefit of the doubt.
Every trans kid I've ever met has had obvious autism or personality disorder. Do whatever you want, act however makes you happy. But also maybe we're castrating people including children to solve undiagnosed mental health issues
And also, stop being so feminine if it starts to hurt others, but i doubt that this channel will ever talk about that
Its all just hormones and brain chemistry in the end tbh people like to put labels on everything
@@arimarino2 people end up being in labels anyways, humanity is more predictable than what people like to think
@@nikoleo2000 You say this like a gotcha moment but toxic femininity is a thing. But that’s not the slam dunk a lot of men think it is.
If you’ve seen Mean Girls, that’s toxic femininity. Your Queen Bees, stuff like that. The toxic is rooted in trying to find self-esteem by ruthlessly climbing a perceived social ladder rather than being comfortable with one’s self.
When I first learned about Zhuang Zi and his story about the useless tree in university, I just could not wrap my head around it but hearing you put it in this context and how we should shift into and out of social roles when deemed necessary finally made it click for me.
I also think people follow these social roles because of generalisation. It's exhausting trying to understand everything around us and when we generalise, we don’t need to think as hard or try to understand someone’s background and instead, we can simply describe someone as a masculine man or feminine man.
I didn't understand it when hearing the video but your explanation ended up helping me! It's funny how that works
Peoplee follow these roles because they do feel comfortable being like that, because following this roles doesnt necessarily mean to do it in an ideal way, you can act in both ways no problem, there IS People who follow them just for being accepted ,but is not the majority,being able to understand how masculine and how feminine you are is essential for reaching maturity
I often get caught up in the feeling of needing to cultivate certain skills or traits so that I may be deemed useful. I've become more aware of that over the past year and today i was feeling overwhelmed with these feelings and didn't realize. This video slowed my racing thoughts and brought me to a calmer place. Great video as always and thanks for gently bringing a greater awareness to myself and others.
Honestly being useful is like the lynchpin of masculinity - people (perhaps women especially) generally only want us around if we can be of some use whether for skills or otherwise.
As a young man, I never felt "like a man".
My experience (I'm not trying to be different lol I know a bunch of ppl who will relate) w masculinity was like my experience w religion, everybody was telling me about something that was like "set in stone" and the only reason to obey it was an arbitrary order.
It always felt like a performance, but a conscious, self-affirming one. And questioning it always directed me to the classic "what's wrong w it? You gay?".
I firmly believe that masculinity, as well as femininity are mostly aesthetics (and it also doesn't make a lot of sense, because dudes can look a thousand ways, same as women).
When it comes to personality, interests and goals, there really isn't any clear differences in the possibilities.
A woman and a man can be the same in those categories and that also builds a gate to understand gender nonconformity. There isn't any reason to look, act or be a certain way.
I believe that the search for masculinity is a fruitless one, because, to me, masculinity, as well as femininity, are stereotypes based on myths that only limit our space to be.
I understand what you mean, but I have to disagree.
I think you are looking at this from a purely or mostly Social outlook, and not considering natural factors.
Yes a lot of behaviors and aesthetics are purely our creation, the next question to ask is "Why did they come about in the way they did?" This is much trickier to answer. Most men who identify as men (about 80%, using a conservative estimate) have similar behaviors, thought patterns, and anatomical and neurological make-up, and the same goes for about the same amount of women. While yes they vary in degree of how much they apply themselves to behaviors and thought patterns (by which I also mean motivations) most consistently share similar behaviors and patterns.
Doing so to a dogmatic degree is unhealthy, no question about that, but to imply that means that we should carry on like we are all playing an elaborate game of pretend seems equally superficial and plainly shallow to me. We don't act the way we do purely out of social factors but natural ones too, and they influence and impact each other to varying degrees in profound ways.
In short, while a large part is aesthetics and doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, there are perfectly natural reasons why everyone acts the way they do just as much as there are socially constructed reasons just as much as these umbrella factors both influence each other that go on to influence us as people.
I don't think you would disagree that even if most people accepted the line of thinking "it's just make believe and shouldn't be treated as anything more, and is fine until it becomes harmful" that would stop them from behaving how they think or carry themselves all that much other than being less judgemental towards others and being more open-minded to explore behaviors they are unfamiliar with (which I think is a mindset that is becoming far more common each decade since the 60's).
Most men strive to be masculine, and this is due to both biological and sociological influence s. The same goes for most women and femininity, and the rare but still old and becoming more mainstream non-binary expressions. I just think to imply it is purely aesthetics is oversimplifying and could even be interpreted as invalidating.
@@anabellececiliapeffall Genders have not existed since the dawn of time, you think some hunter gatherer was worried ab if their group saw them as enough of a man? I doubt it.
@@anabellececiliapeffall you should look deeper into history regarding gender. There are many ancient cultures who ascribed themselves as something other than the sex they were born with. Also transgenderism can also be seen in nature as some animals will act as their female counterparts for some survival or social gains.
@@anabellececiliapeffall also look into the research of how beneficial it is for people with gender dysphoria to identify with a different gender. Gender is a social construct so if someone is choosing to change their gender and not just their personality for them to feel better and happier, you can’t tell them what they’re doing is only a personality change. It’s all a social construct so what if they are changing their gender then that is just them playing around with these social rules we have been stilled upon by generations before us. More power to them I’d say.
@@anabellececiliapeffall if there are other possibilities then it’s not a rule.
Being older, your masculinity or lack of it gets pushed off to the side of the public's consciousness (they don't care). If I were to have a conversation with myself at this age, it'd go something like this, "Am I masculine? Well ... do I feel like a man? Yes. Okay, good enough."
You’ve gotten so good at making CZcams videos over the past couple years. I’m sitting here in awe at them and you really get me thinking for the rest of the day. Thanks!
With the recent explosion of Andrew Tate having affected my own younger brother's outlook on masculinity, I had been considering this topic for a while also. Starting the video now-- excited to hear your thoughts!
The people hating on Peterson and smearint him are partially to blame for Tate taking that spot.
@@principleshipcoleoid8095 I think a big part of the issue is young and impressionable people being exposed to only one, somewhat extreme side, of the issue. Peterson isn't great at all, but he also isn't villainous. Algorithms only push what people want to see, so people end up just reaffirming their preexisting beliefs. The world be far better, in my opinion, if people genuinly listened to and thought through all of the arguments before coming to their own, reasoned, conclusions. Balance would, in my opinion, lead to a more equal world in which less people are drawn to an extreme (any extreme, left, right, or otherwise).
@@Kyle-gw6qp Peterson is nowhere near as bad as Tate, but still not a great role model or philosopher to look up to.
@@principleshipcoleoid8095 Peterson is a hack. Tate is literally just a criminal. His advice is as useful as his title suggests. Tate took advantage of the political climate to make money. He doesn't care about children. Don't shift the blame. Tate is the only one to blame for Tate being a criminal.
@Kyle since I'm guessing you don't fit your own description and you reach your own reasoning. Why is peterson so harmful exactly? Surely I'll hear a fresh argument that wasn't designed to shape your view
this got me thinking idea of authenticity in control and chosen aesthetics on display can be translated to much more than gender. Maybe even to cultural identity
🤔this is one of those ideas I never came up with myself, and don’t know if I ever would… but as soon as I read it, it feels right at home in the brain. I think you’re right / onto something
Yeah absolutely, good point. Subcultures of all types are aesthetically signalled through clothing and otherwise
@@dl2725 really like the way you put it. For someone who has a really hard time finding words, describing something, and overall just very socially incapable, I experience that feel a lot.
Let me add, I think the concept could be useful to an examination of a cultural identity in contexts as small as a profession or workplace. I belong to a profession (law) that encourages complete submersion and transformation of the identity, but in reality it's mainly a performance and it's liberating to approach it in that way.
i think i felt gender euphoria while being cis. I had to be on a boy's group for a whole summer. I had short hair (my choice) and guy friends (my choice lol). The coach misgendered me as part of the group. The kids realized and started calling me a masculine version of my name. It was funny but it always felt a little odd. I liked the same things as them and presented the same but i still new i felt better addressed as a girl. Because i was a girl. I was to shy to stop them. I came into the same cabin as a few girls who went on another group and they told me to get out because i was barely a girl. I cried. Then on mealtime a female monitor was complimenting us and she said i was a smart girl. It felt nice after a few weeks of mild teasing and so i flipped around smiling to my fullest and looking around to see if anyone else had noticed. Thats why i respect so much trans women. Child me felt bad after less than 15 days and it was just part of a joke. For them its 1000 times worse and they cant just make it stop by ending the month of august.
what the hell are these modern expressions, gender euphoria? wtf
oh my fucking god i don’t care holy shit shut up
This was a very insightful comment!
I have just discovered your channel and i am happy beyond belief to know that in this era of fast knowledge and simple answers to difficult problems such content exist and has an audience.
Never stop and best of luck.
It’s almost like he knows what exactly I need at the exact moment I need it really these video are a blessing
Genuinely lovely video.
I'm getting some "be like water" vibes. That's been more my way as I got older though I doubt I could have articulated it so beautifully.
liked and commented!! This has gotta spread, communicating this issue is one of the most important tasks of our time
you've been banging out a bunch of high quality videos recently, keep it up!
I think I have an interesting relationship to masculinity considering I'm bisexual and I'm in a relationship with a man. However I'm masculine enough to pass as a straight man and when I come out to people, the illusion of a "normal" young masculine man gets shattered for them, as if I'm just pretending to be a "real man". Now that I'm more comfortable with my sexuality and more willing to share that with people I find that other straight men are now comfortable with telling me things that they otherwise wouldn't. Liking flowers, wearing makeup, painting nails. It then dawned on me that a large part of masculine identity is an absolute avoidance of being gay or effeminate. Even though liking these things doesn't change your sexuality. The more I get older the more I realize that modern masculinity is a prison.
Tbh the fact that I've lived so far without even considering my own masculinity and just doing whatever I want is proof to me that Its not necessary to keep masculinity in mind constantly to live our lives, hell I dont think its even important. I think most people who talk and try to "shape" their own masculinity constantly lack self confidence, are afraid of change, growing up, love, being themselves, being accepted, but thats just life, there is nothing wrong with them, they dont have to see some bald guy showing how rich he is telling them they aren't man enough, or "alpha" enough, etc. You can just ignore it all and just live and its alright. If people judge for all I care they can copy-paste their complaints in Microsoft Word, print it, fold it and shove it. Its all based on fear of the world, their identities, what people might think, but in many cases it ends up spreading hatred of everything that is different.
Also cool you feel more comfortable man thats awesome
Yes, King!!!!
Damn da devil is really winning
@@arimarino2u taking the piss ft
This video was incredibly well-paced, thought out and researched. Well done mate. Ngl have never been properly into podcasts but if you did one, it would be sick. I need to watch the collab vids
He does have podcasts in this channel, have you checked them out?
@@jjQlLlLq I'm so dumb, that sentence was a bit of a brain fart, because I did know. Thanks anyway.
They’re also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
he said nothing and do that he used 20 mins f your life.
@@GEO_________________________24 Brother, you said, "this 'genuine pretend' play sounds like a good idea" - so you must think this video had something in it worth taking about , but hey I won't stop you.
I've watched and rewatched this at leats a couple dozen times already and can't put into words how much this video means to me. I'm currently going through a tough time in my life and have been questioning my own beliefs - and masculinity is a topic that very much influences how my *self* was built, assembled, amassed in very deep ways. My struggle to be a good man is counterparted by my male relatives and parent, whose masculinity has reached the point Sisyphus55 describes at the very end of the video. It gives me genuine comfort knowing another shape of masculinity is possible and that more people are working towards building the foundations for that yet-to-be-achieved Healthy Masculinity.
I like how we all share similar feelings towards the life we all live. Many thinkers have designed conjugated and convoluted concepts which allow us insight into how we could control the ever changing nature of reality.
Identities seem just to supply a hook to latch on to, in desperate scenes of existence.
They are merely a handy tool to use, from what I’ve seen, to pave a direction of safety and grouping.
We aren’t anything fundamentally, we shift frequently and more so than we can imagine or want to imagine.
The great irony is that by latching onto a solidly-existing idea of masculinity, manosphere gurus end up coming off as overly-sensitive and insecure (traditionally non-masculine traits). On the other hand, by eschewing the idea that we need a masculine identity to affirm our own existence, we are freed from adherence to rigid social behaviours, often becoming more confident and self-assured in the process (traditionally masculine traits). So by chasing masculinity, manosphere gurus wind up further from it, while those that let go of the need for a masculine identity end up becoming more masculine as a somewhat unintended byproduct.
If being confident is a masculine trait then if we were to switch that logic then insecurity is a feminine trait
Do you believe insecurity is a feminine trait?
Referencing traditional masculine or feminine traits doesn't imply that the opposite gender has the opposite trait, that's a false premise. It would be absurd for example to assume that all men are by nature unloving simply because love and care are traditionally seen as more feminine than masculine.@@painunending4610
@@painunending4610 Some feminine traits like "nurturing" do not mean the opposite to their masculine counterparts like "fighting" or "advancing". Rather, feminine and masculine traits are presented differently, not just opposite to each other. Confidence can also be present in expressing femininity.
@@lupaloops4166 you're just making things up. Brining up random traits then assigning them genders. Loopy world we live in
Perfect timing again
Thank you so much for making these videos!!! The lack of space and critical discourse on modern masculinity is so frustrating and you are doing so much to fix that!
Nothing will Stop Le In"Z"el R£belli0n tho
This is a great video. From beginning to end. A coherent throughline, a narrative style pace, and relevant cultural themes and imagery.
Honestly Ive really loved what has come from this "Is the left failing men?" discourse. Lots of good responses on CZcams. I love it when people are willing to speak affirmatively about what they think is good instead of only reacting to what they think is bad.
This dude is also failing men by pretending like it's all role play and only important for caveman survival. My man would probably have a heat stroke paving the road. He has no place to preach sitting on his gaming chair
Stop worrying about Muh-sculinity lol
@@theredgoblin562 okay, that doesn’t mean the other 4 billion men alive aren’t capable of it, nor does it mean they need to be
@@theredgoblin562 Okay. I agree with him and I’ve been working manual labor since I was a kid.
@@harmonlanager2670 yea? How old are you now lol. My point is some jobs require masculine traits. Not everybody can rant on the internet about their dumb beliefs for a living
That was a problem i had while i was watching one piece, i didn't know what being a men means and was confused whether it was a good thing or not, but while i was watching i saw characters that embodyed masculinity like sanji and franky.
While sanji was that cool guy who tries to do all he can to get womans attention he is delicated while he cooks and shows his emotions crying and caring for others, in the same time franky (which is for me the most masculine men in one piece), is that carpenter with a cool hair and Sunglasses and is cyborg with Guns in his body and lights in his niples, and he also dresses his hair with braids because he thinks is cool.
Both this guys would thake action and responsability to protect who they love in any time, thats the meaning of masculinity for me.
Love that you are evolving with your medium of communication
Greetings from Denmark
*daddy issues
I've always felt odd about my masculinity. It always felt like any notions of gender performance were a product of going through life on default rather than any conscious decision I make.
I'm deeply impressed and interested in this new format you've recently approached for your videos! I'm looking forward for the future and the subject of this video in particular doesn't focus on my gender/sex but I'm left with such a helpful and hopeful outlook for my issues on self-improvement.
Another banger. Appreciate the thinking and research you do mr sisyphus
Love how your channel is called Sisyphus, makes sense with this topic
I’ve been someone who has immersed myself in the hyper masculine bubbles of self improvement and development for years now. For years I’ve wanted to be better due to a lack of self esteem and confidence in my identity. It didn’t help that my father’s a narcissist, and there’s been this idea of absurd, excessive, and boastful self love that’s set the bar unreasonably high for me in my mind. I’ve been striving to do many of these things that are preached in these spaces of masculinity in hopes of reaching that destination of self content. But what I’ve discovered is that as a young 21 year old man is that I shouldn’t be striving for the ideal aesthetic, identity, or presence. I don’t seek to love the man who figures it all out, I seek to love myself as the man who IS always and always will be figuring it out. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself fellas, as long as you live with honesty, compassion, gratitude, and passion, you’ll be alright. I trust that.
Tell women to accept that and we may be better
@@nikoleo2000 buddy almost every comment of yours is aimed at women, is there something you wanne get og yiur chest?
@@jasonedenburg9427 just telling the truth here buddy, are you bothered by that?
@@nikoleo2000 The sexes don’t need to be in conflict. Not every examination of the masculine needs to be a criticism of the feminine. Mind your own progress.
@@harmonlanager2670 you say it, the sexes arent supposed to be ina conflict on this situations, yet they are , apecially at critizicing men, one day they are angry at man who arent masculinee enough, they want someone strong,fearless and dominant who can take care of their needs and the other they are mad that men get so agressive and start critizicing what before they state that was an ideal man, and now they want someone sensitive, caring and sumissive, they are literally impossible to satisfy
Perfect timing, Mr Sisyphus. I've been struggling with this concept ever since I was a child, but recently(due to trauma, mostly), it's becoming worse. To a point that I cannot feel good around other men: I'll keep comparing how I'm not enough compared to X or Y person and how I lack some features that they possess. I really want to stop caring about that and believe that I'm good enough, but not even my therapist is helping with it, at the moment. I'm at the point where I cannot accept myself as a man, anymore. Hope your conversation about the topic can help it(as it has done a lot of times before). Keep doing your great work 🙏
maybe that's your own competitive drive and desire for something better for yourself. You are good enough to be worth every ounce of effort you put into improving yourself for a better you. Masculinity is not a social construct to the extent that it has biological components and internal mechanisms that influence our behavior and thus our our gender express and definition of gender roles. Don't lie to yourself to simply fit a norm or stereotype, and don't ignore this inherent masculine imperative
Such a great video and important topic to cover! Thank you!
I’ve watched this video at least 4 times since you’ve posted it. So insightful and makes me do lots of introspection, thanks
As a guy who isn't that caring of being masc that much, I'd rather much be a "good person" than a "good man" , like why do I have to be a "good man" if I'm already a "good person" that makes me a good man by default. I simply cannot bring myself to take those extra steps that aren't required.
What is a 'good person'. I've never met a good person, just people who were capable of good
@painunending4610 well as you describe it. I guess we could say someone who displays more of those traits than not. No ones perfect.
The last few seconds of this video are hands down the best advice I’ve ever heard on how to be a man, amazing work!
Unbelievable, this has helped me to kinda deal with my stressful 20s, I think i have been leaning to so much societal pressures to a point where i feel masculinity to me is a false phenomena and overly used against others!!! Thank you so much!!!
You're bl¢ lol
The conclusion made me feel like I'm not alone, thank you so much 🙏I've always thought I didn't fit in and I am kind of averse to being the idea of a man (A pillar; a mountain; a wall) yet at times I still act in that way from ideas of the ideal man or hero, but I don't dislike others who see themselves as one. I've grew up with a father that has struggled and been violent at times, I've seen both sides of him, and I know he holds himself as a man and it was really toxic to see this so that's probably why I don't prefer to be seen as a man. I'm learning slowly and I've been quite depressed it can be from a ton of causes but one might be because I don't really know who I am, so many answers from other people and yet I hardly listen to myself.
I have felt and thought about what you mentioned "no gender" and that comforts me. I'm free to express any way I'd like.
Masculinity is more than just either aesthetic or dominating/oppressing... the fuck.
What a strange false dichotomy to make.
Uncle Iroh is wholesome Masculinity. All men need is more/better role models.
I agree theres definitly more to being a man
All this shit would be solved if people were just honest, while others allowed them to be honest without persecution.
Good luck with that one mate
God tier content and commentary about important topics today.
Stopping when it hurts other.
In some sense I do struggle myself with this issue, except it’s not others I’m hurting, but myself.
When your boss tells you that you should “find a hobby” instead of coming into work… you start to realize how crippled you are. Without the validation of hard work, I have nothing.
I feel like I work not for the pay, but only for the validation of being a “hard worker who gets paid a lot”. Also, I am happy with what I’m being paid, until I find out someone is being paid more. Then I feel like my “hard work” is more “easy labor” to my boss. This makes me feel like I was used as a tool, and not seen as a valuable asset.
Work has been stressing me out lately, and I feel like I’ve lost my happiness; or what’s left of my happiness.
I don’t know what to do anymore. I go to work, come home, and sit in my room until it’s socially acceptable to fall asleep. My days off consist of me doing school so I may one day have a job where I am more than what I am now.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to “find hobbies” I don’t know how to “make friends” and I don’t know how to “be myself”.
Has anyone else had this issue?
Opposite here, I am perfectly content to just kinda float on by through the world, make exactly enough money to pay rent and maintain a basic lifestyle, enjoy the little things, make music. The only issue is the stress of not having a safety net. It's honestly pretty nice aside from that, I will literally spend an hour on my day off listening to a record and rolling a picture perfect joint and then go for a walk and smoke it in the sun with a big ol coffee and listen to the wind and the birds and look at the clouds and I honestly don't need anything more out of life. I get that that wouldn't be enough for other people, but it is for me.
@@methyod it’s not that I envy a lavish lifestyle, it’s just the idea the my company uses me as a tool where I wanna be in charge of my life. I don’t want to waste my life working for tomorrow.
I’m not really a happy person. So I hope that my future has some meaning to it. I want to make some change.
Sometimes I fail to believe that i'm watching this for free. Great content.
really didnt feel like 20 minutes, it flied by, it was so interesting, thank you
Beautiful video, as always 🥲👍
Masculinity isn't responsible for toxic behavior, people are responsible for toxic behavior.
if that would be true we'd already live in a genderless world. we dont. there's a lot of gender specific issues. like why are men responsible for an overwhelming amount of sexual harassment?
@@halguy5745 So I don't think that's true. I think most sexual harassment towards women comes from other women, particularly in the form of slut shaming and reputation destruction. You see this a lot in women dominated fields like waitressing and nursing with senior staff devouring their young.
Exactly
But when people think its “manly” to act like a jerk it’s usually called “toxic masculinity” not because it’s masculine but because they think it’s masculine
I would argue that there actually is a form of "healthy" or "good" masculinity. Aragorn, from Lord of the Rings, for example.
He serves as a leader figure of the Fellowship and he is a heir to the Gondor's throne, yet he isn't overly dominant and listen to the other's advice.
He is fearsome in battle and brave in the face of the danger, yet he is compassionate and generally kind-hearted.
He is physically strong and have a wide variety of skills, yet he is humble and appreciates any help he has been given.
He is loyal and a "man of his word", yet we see that even he have doubts and fears along the way.
Is he masculine? I would say that yes, he is. He checks most of the "traditionally masculine" checkboxes (being a leader, physically capable, intelligent etc.) yet he still somehow manages to stay a genuinely good human being.
I think that he was created by Tolkien as a sort of role model in which he shows his take on what men should aspire to be.
All in all, however, I enjoyed the video, despite the fact I disagree with some points in it
How many people are like that IRL though?
And shouldn't everyone strive to be strong and fierce, yet humble and kind. At least to a degree?
Also, I doubt if that role is effective for all men. Why can't we just pick certain aspects we like? Why do we need to follow a role?
He is almost a paragon that was taught basically from birth to be that way, surronded by noble people that held the same values higher than their lifes sometimes. The main problem isnt the lack of role models per say, fiction has many more aragorns, but how to become like them, aragorn was raised in a noble house by wise elfs, the first time he faced trauma was when he was told he was an heir and that his father died protecting him and aragorn was 20 yeara old.
He was a paragon, but would he be if he wasnt raised like one? And someone that wasnt, could become like him? I dont have the answer to neither of those questions but those that want to become like him, need to find or become the answer to the second one, while having no idea of the path they must take, only the very final result and while holding the believe that the answer isnt "no" until they arrive there. It isnt really the lack of rolemodels that is the problem, is the lack of worthy rolemodels who at least try to appear as that their history could be replicated without magic, extreme luck or just being born and raised in the right place.
We all want to be Aragorn, but most of us end up being Boromir.
There is a video series done by pilgrim's pass which elaborate on masculinity and lotr, pretty good analysis, somewhat biased but not too unbearable.
@@greekswaglord-dathistoryla201 The dude really doesn't understand leftism though, so keep that in mind a bit.
your videos are truly incredible, such a high quality. really amazed at your ability to disect such complicated ideas so well
This has been much needed, thank you.
The main issue I have with Judith Butler is the idea that sex/gender/ masculinity is a 'performance'. Though I fully support the idea that individuals should be able to choose their identity, whether it be traditionally masculine, feminine, or a mix of the two (the most ideal, and most common), using the term 'performance' suggests that the pursuit of said identity is disingenuous, especially if it is a more masculine one.
It suggests humans are completely 100% malleable all of the time in every way - this is the classic nature vs nurture debate. If you ask any evolutionary biologist, psychologist, or any social scientist worth their salt about how identities are constructed, they will tell you that it is a combination of what is hereditary and biological, and what is molded into you by your surroundings.
Evolutionary psychology is not a real thing
@@therideneverends1697 Hi, of course it is. When born, human babies are afraid of two things: Falling, and loud noises. Though these have a physical trigger, it could be argued that evolutionary psychology is responsible for such a reaction. I’d suggest reading Bad Men by David Buss. He links psychology and evolution very well :)
I think you're a bit confused on the way they use the term. "performance" doesn't necessarily mean acting in the way that an actor does. Butler leans more into the word in the sense that a performance honestly boils down to "when you do something." So performing masculinity doesn't necessarily even mean you chose to do the thing or that you even saw it as a way of performance. I like working with my hands, for example. I don't enjoy it because it's seen as a masculine thing, I like it and it happens to be seen as a masculine thing. There's nothing disingenuous about it, but other people see it as a masculine thing, and they see me doing it, and as a result see me as more masculine than I would be if I didn't. Similarly, I always wanted to cook when I was younger (and recently got back into it), but it was seen as women's work by my friends and family at the time, so I was always discouraged from it because it was seen as a performance of feminity. Both of those are things I just enjoy doing and don't consider to be gendered at all, but they've been socially coded in such a way that I'm doing - performing - a masculine or feminine thing whether I like it or not.
Hope that makes sense! I'm way behind on sleep so it might be a little incoherent
@@CvisscherYeah, it's an elaborate and stupid way to say social status.
this is... such a needed take as a queer person who has not been able to find the language to define the "empty cup" or gendered aesthetic.
i personally label myself as transfeminine because of the euphoria i feel upon seeing feminine figures, but i've never had strong ties to a gendered identity as a whole. i have qualities that people could deem as being both masculine and feminine, but i don't want to define those aspects in a specific way because it's all too relative and circumstantial. i may be more "masculine" in one area and "feminine" in another to adapt to multiple circumstances, i.e. emptiness.
we should be wary of rigidity stopping us from being "people" and locking ourselves into identities that can keep us from growing in favor of having security. thank you so much for sharing these ideas👌🏾
Would you say that queer and transfeminine are also labels that could in someways cripple your growth as an individual for the sake of group security and comfort?
@@rightcliquegod7653 i wouldn't say so because i didn't assign myself as either to fit into a group, and moreso as being able to... put a name to my face if you will. my being queer or transfeminine are things that ADD to my personhood rather than them being at my core. i still can recognize myself as a person outside of being transfeminine or queer and i've made my own definitions for those things, which is an essential element of queerness imo. very good question
I appreciate the reply! You said something earlier that is very important, that we latch into identifies merely for the sake of security but the price is that we neglect our own growth as individuals. Because of course identities regardless of what kind offer us a lot of intangible things belonging, comfort, ideology, and so on... But the otherside of the coin is that we have sorrows and fears deep within us which are the main reason we latch into those identities in the first place and so the identity acts as a growth blocker of sorts because it doesn't allow us to come face to face with our demons. Would you agree?
I think what I am failing to understand is why would you put such an emphasis on something as rigid as attraction and sexuality. I am Bi but I have never ever in my life approached this as some sort of identity, I just fuck around and enjoy the company of different genders and move on.
If this is rude then apologies.
@@rightcliquegod7653 yes, i absolutely agree with that. and no, you aren't being rude at all. sometimes our rigidity stems from losing what comforts we have and we fear the change, or exclusion and isolation, that may come in exploring our identities outside of how we already are. so we may just opt to fit in instead-- which is very understandable as belonging is imperative to who we are, but our individual selves can be neglected as a result.
and to answer your question, i'm not specifically talking about attraction or even just other people, but my sense of self. transfemininity or queerness don't revolve just around sexuality but our beings. i use transfeminine and queer to describe specific feelings that i have about myself and it is in no way related to attraction or my sexual identity.
Thank you for making this video. I needed to hear this.
Thank you Sisyphus... Thank you deeply for this, and all your other philosophical/psychological content.
The concept of Genuine Pretending reminds me a lot of the book "Finite and Infinite Games" by James P. Carse. A fantastic book that I think drills down into that concept of taking on a role only as long as it serves you and the world, but then goes on to explore the games we play that have us take on those roles, and to choose those games wisely. To ask why we are playing the games we play, and whether the games we play should be the kind that are played to win or the kind that are played for the purpose of continuing the play.
I'm a teenager that's starting to develop my own form of masculinity, and since I'm a homosexual and confident in myself enough to never even consider suppressing it, I have the glorious challenge of sort of developing my own personal construct of a "real man".
Recently I've finished this game "in case of emergency" and in the game you have three non-main mental voices, alpha chad, male feminist and king of the nerds. I believe that the three part system of mental voices the game shows is what's needed to be a truly healthy individual.
You have first your true version of your own gender, a cowboy, a pirate, a factory worker, whatever you find to be truly masculine (mine is sort of in between a caveman and an honorable knight).
Then you have your voice of critique and empathy, maybe its more like volition from the hit classic disco Elysium, or just a sort of idealized kind version of yourself telling you that you can do it! and that stops you from acting on unhelpful impulses. (mine is shit cohesion maintenance personnel)
Finally you have your own individualized voice that is solidly "you", I can't give you examples on this but pick whatever is most core to you that isn't part of either of the first two structures. (mine is powerhouse inclination, tired, miserable, afraid? POWER THROUGH.)
I believe that masculinity is good, and is a powerful mental tool but cannot be the sole influence on your actions. A system of checks and balances is critical to ensuring that the masculinity does not become harmful. (also don't bully anyone else for not confirming to your own personal ideals of masculinity, because then it becomes toxic masculinity and that's bad.)
Bro you're too young to be thinking about your identity like that😭. Just do shit you enjoy and stay entitled to a strong character. Exploring these ideas philosophically ain't bad, but don't be putting yourself in a box like that
It's 0vER for you, buddyB0Y0
Matter of fact it nevER began lol
The problem with your idea is the conception of a "real man"which doesnt exist and never will, being masculine has his set of traits and "rules"if you wish to see it that way, you can act like those traits while also acting in a feminine way other times, but dont confuse masculinity with femininity, that way, youll never be able to understand yourself.
Also, i really doubt that a feminist male voice in your head would be a good influence in any situation tbh
@@nikoleo2000 its less "real man" as a class of individual and more like an impossible ideal of masculinity you find cool. Also male feminist is basically just what a "woke moralist"/"liberal"/"gender communist" would do in a certain situation (don't say racist things, comment on cycles of feudalistic disempowerment, ect). I don't think its the most fun one but its not exactly useless.
@@francegamer it is useless tbh, a male feminist who doesn't realize the disadvantages of being a man while also blaming men for every bad thing that happened to women is a pretty bad influence in any kind of situation
Thank you for being the person to discuss masculinity with the most tact on CZcams.
I've never heard my thoughts around masculinity put so correctly. I wish I was better at speaking in the moment so I could express these very thoughts. Thank you for giving a place where someone else's journey may start.
See this is a little bit weird for me.
"Be a man until it hurts" is a little bit counterintuitive because for me, while i'm not super upset about being a man, I do get bullied for it, and without a doubt the weight of being "Wrong by Default" is crushing. It seems to me that to be a man is to persist through being unnecessary, unwanted, and unloved. that somehow by being a man all the way to the end of your life is some kind of achievement. It hurts like hell. I'm pretty torn about gender and all this crap anyways, where I don't really want to only ever be beautiful in death, but I also dont want to be disingenuous to the female ideal of perfection my brain has crafted over the years. This whole shtick of gender and exploring it really makes me aware of my own cognitive fallacies and how I've seemingly been "set up to fail" in the world of gender. being a cishet white dude living in a place where that intersectionality is pretty unwanted definitely makes you look inward. the biggest death blow to me existing as a man is being "wrong by default" in literally anything morally sound, and that your intersectionality is only legitimized and acknowledged by the right, which is kinda cringe. Idk, it's just mad interesting to me.
The problem is, everyone wants their problem solved first. Men bother women by trying to get laid, so women want that solved, they arent bothered by men being the default for backbreaking work, so they put a pin on it and think they will deal with it when their problems are solved. Its the same reason why men arent invested in fighting rape, white people fighting racism and etc...
Everyone thinks the worst pain is the one they experience and thus think it is the one more worthy to be soothed first
I'm sorry to hear that what's been transmitted to your understanding from your experience is that men are wrong by default. We're at a time where the pendulum swung heavily towards women's side as they've been the subject of years of injustice and start to both reasonably & unreasonably demand stuff from men, and heavily swinging the other way towards men's side too entering redpill communities from the newly created unemphatic injustice on men by hurt women.
Both pushing hard with the lack of sympathy, especially in spaces where the digital platform will morph according to your beliefs, creating echo chambers for profit. So I'm unfortunately not surprised that you're in a position where you got pushed towards the men's extreme side. Hurt people will hurt people, and it's a cycle. (Which btw, have you watched the first part to this topic, Sisyphus' video before this one?)
Though thankfully just like pendulums would, the swings tend to become less extreme. There's increasingly people who used to be extreme but got their spell broken and become more sympathetic to the opposite gender and able to think & speak with nuance & honesty; and people who are more detached from the messy unstable state of the society (could be people of a different nation, different culture, different state of society) start to speak up.
I don't know what kinda irl & digital environment you're surrounded with, but my initial deduction tells me that you might be surrounded by unsympathetic hurt women and lost men? Since I may understand how unsatisfying the advice of "you can be a man up 'till it hurts others" if the point of "hurting others" in your experience is very wide and makes your space to express masculinity become so small. And yet even then you might think that's deserved because women have been oppressed for years already because of the bad features of traditional masculinity, and you might not know what the middleground looks like without good models.
I have thoughts on that, but I'll wait for a feedback first as my rambling is already long enough too lol.
@@tiagocf1208 yeah this is absolutely true but i wasnt really trying to say that my pain is any more than somebody else's struggling under different issues. I just don't like that i'm not really allowed to help with other issues because by virtue of my intersectionality, I'm "wrong by default" and do not get to participate in such discourses. This is a pretty bad way to put it, but it feels like I should just step back and let someone "more diverse" speak on their problem. It's hard to see a point in being well-versed on racism and other issues that don't affect being a white dude when even if you are, people won't let you talk about it. I might be exaggerating when I say that, but from personal experience, people are definitely not eager to hear about their problems from cishet white dudes.
@@jjQlLlLq @@jjQlLlLq nah I like rambling. I was never really too indoctrinated into the manoshpere, and yes, I love sisyphus's video about the manoshpere, I watch it often because I think it gives good insight onto something I deeply struggle with. beyond realizing that JBP isnt really that great of a dude, breaking the cobwebs of this sort of bygone masculinity I seem to embody is not easy. I don't really resonate with my generation at all and it's microplastics and monsanto and "everybody is neurodivergent" type of deal, and while i'm a whole lot more open to it than I used to be, there's definitely a dissonance between me and how the rest of my generation acts. (I'm 17.) I think the "wrong by default" thing comes from having a lot of my early schoolteachers (women) be not really a fan of me and often shit on me and make of me, and a lot of the girls bullied me too. this is probably the best problem or little t trauma you could have to be honest, because now I hang out with mostly girls and socially I'm in one of the best positions i've ever been, though i've still never been in a relationship and all these girls I hang out with I don't think see anything in me.
So yeah. I'm still pretty tired of being a dude, and it's not really fun. I often think about what my life would've been like If I was born with another X chromosome, which seems pretty maladaptive as it makes me feel like shit. idk.
ima wait to hear what yall gotta say cuz im cooking up a big one that yall gon see
Interesting how you brought the story of the tree in the tao te ching into the topic of masculinity. I never made that connection, thank you.
quality content as always, this channel never fails to amaze me
You never fail to make amazing content for us. Keep up the good work.
Nice seeing you here sophie!
Very good video, it's good to see an actual "call to action" instead of what is usually parroted by a lot of left-leaning speakers
One of my favorite videos of yours. Excellent presentation as always and absolutely an important topic.
Thank you for this absolute KING
There's definitely a crisis of masculinity going on in the west. I'm really happy to see reasonable people like you start tackling this issue.
This sort of shit is what started it. What does the fact that the term healthy masculinity exists without healthy femininity say about a society?
There's also a crisis of male reproductive health due to endocrine disrupting chemicals (found in plastics and pesticides). Sperm count and testosterone have declined by 50 % in the past 50 years. Makes me think this is all related.
I'm sure the crisis will be solved by continuing to pretend like masculinity can be whatever we want it to be.
@@Myst165 doubt it, more estrogen doesn’t make less testosterone. However testosterone is probably dropping due to evolutionary demands of further sociability
@@teteteteta2548 It's a global phenomenon, and has been observed in animals too. So it has to be environmental.
Gentlemen culture could be the Healthy masculinity we might be looking for.
@@Aksfsc idk. Being a good person is a solo responsibility. Atleast against another good person.
Whether women killed it or not, to not do it is just running away using excuses.
@@Aksfsc Chivalry publicity died. You won't find it in the media, but once it's deemed worthy to give is when it will be found.
@@mocerlaalacbainothere's nothing wrong with running away and using excuses 😊
Most men aren't interested in being a 'gentleman' anymore though. There's a reason that concept died. What even is a 'gentleman'
Personally I like being brash and crude, I like letting others do what they want how they want, and I ain't very gentle at all
We shouldn't get rid of one box only to replace it with another. We should let men be who they want and not hold them to standards and expectations they did not choose
@@painunending4610 correct me if I'm wrong, i think we are aligned in our intentions that we must find an answer which would make men more content.
And we are debating the question whether gentlemen's culture is right way or not.
To that i must first clear some things before it turns into misunderstanding. From gentlemen's culture i specifically mean being gentle, kind and good against everyone in general (of course one can be not like that towards their close ones as they understand each other much better). I didn't mean other things related to it. My apologise for that.
We should let men be who they want and not hold them to standards and expectations they didn't choose. Maybe that would be good choice except i find it a little problematic.
We both would agree that a girl who is constantly related with infidelity is not a trustable person right? What would it mean if we take away standards and expectations she didn't choose for and let her be who she wants to be?("that she's trustworthy" is our standard and expectations right?) How about same case with a man? I think it's unfair. They are obviously a bad person.
Standards and expectations are necessary but maybe it's wrong to set the bar too high. But it's up to individuals what they expect and what their standards are.
Do we agree?
We could also agree that most people like those who are good and kind to them. (Leaving bad people aside) so.. wouldn't being gentle, kind and good towards others a good thing?
This was such a stimulating video. I’ve always struggled with the concept of identity and how much one should be engulfed in chosen identities, and whether this is merely illusory anyway. Applying this to the toxic masculinity crisis of today and the striving of young men to “embody” our culture’s idea of masculinity was superb.
amazing video, im so glad you're talking about this
This turned out to be a bit of a rant with no conclusion except for the part I thank him, you've been warned
"Genuine pretending" part stroke a cord with me, I've always been cautious of taking any identity as a core of who you are as a person, in my case it stems from the fact that while growing up I saw a lot of acts of violence and enmity in general that seemingly had its roots in "patriotism" and "being proud of who you and your brothers and sisters are" and "we won't let them oppress us again" type of thinking, lately I started to doubt myself and my actions as just being cowardly and being afraid to commit, yet I always had a feeling it wasn't right, now I have a name for that and I can look into it further, so thanks for sharing your ideas and knowledge I otherwise would've never even heard about, peace.
Bonesaw from Spider-Man (2002) is a good example of healthy masculinity
He just broke opponent’s bones - never did anything misogynistic
JustDon'tBeMisogynisticTheory
Hi im a second-year undgrad at Queens University majoring in sociology and minoring in political science. your videos are awesome man keep it up!
Just want to say i love what you did with part 3.
The good the bad the ugly reference.
For me personally, I've been in the military for years now. As soon as I joined, I lost every relationship and all friendships became temporary as I move from base to deployment to base. The friendships that stick while I'm anywhere have been male.
How could I possibly be a misogynist if I don't interact with females at all anymore. I've fully embraced "toxic" masculinity with all its self destructive ideals.
The last time I was with a woman, she said she could never be with me because she couldn't wrap her head around the idea my job was theoretically to kill people for the government.
I haven't gone on a single date in years, and I guess I can't really be an incel because I don't care about sex anymore.
I'm in a career field where suicides among my brothers in arms is astounding, it's every other day at this point. All I have is me and the men beside me.
I don't want to die alone, but that's just the way it is.
I'm here for you, man. Thanks for protecting the nation
@@Bamgbamgbamg appreciate it bro
Male suicide is a very real problem, I am sorry. But giving up on these simple pleasures of life such as a nice sexual life, romantic companionship, and a feminine figure in your life, is one of the main factors of this mental health problem among men. Keep trying to find relationships and friends outside of your military friends. Branching out and experiencing life outside of your work with empathy and friendliness is very fruitful and will only bring happiness even if there are rejections and bumps on the road.
@juandelatorre6400 I spent the last year in Europe for the Ukrainian situation, I loved Europe, but I was even more lonely relationship wise. I think my broken German and nonexistent French didn't help, but even English speaking women throughout Europe really didn't want to have anything to do with me. I'm in my early 20s, and most European women in my age range wanted something different. I tended to hang out in smokey old bars and castle ruins with older German men, talking philosophy and history while everyone else my age partied in college towns. Similar to the states.
Even in my free time, I'm never around women my age.
Thank you I needed this
Good as always!
I feel so lost in life as a man, idk what to do, what to fight for, and find my purpose in this world.
Learning about psychologist Carl Jung and his work on masculine and feminine, anima & animus, collective unconscious, hero’s journey, could give you some good insight
>Continuing your Bl00dline
honestly stop centering your
goals and existence around being a man. yes it’s an important part of identity it seems to you, but stop centering everything around it. you can still be a good sibling, parent, child, friend, lover, etc. look into casual philosophy as well, this channel is a great starting place.
@@walkerh2745
TeeheeeMaxxed
@@AbuBased731 based brocel tell the f-id like it is!
Overall, masculinity is not about being dominant. It's more about how you cope with the responsibility entrusted to you. Being masculine ≠ being a jerk, and being a jerk ≠ being masculine. (Sorry for my bad English)
you’re awesome 👊🏼 love these