The Truth about Indian Motorcycles (Dark Horse Review)
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2019
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We’re all brothers on the road
wishful thinking...I've got nothing in common with some cosplaying Harley rider...really we're on different planets...not that I don't mind a good laugh mind you..they just don't seem to like it...bwa hahahahaha
@@mikeadams2351 Time to change your tampon
@@guffinator70 wow a 6th grade put down...what will I do now? well it won't be cosplaying a hell angel's act...bwa hahahahahahaha really tampon? I guess something like that would bother YOU...bwa hahahahahahaha my life is in ruins..you big bully...bwa hahahahahaha hey dude there's this orange clown act running around shootig his big mouth off..and looking like a FOOL...he has a saying..SAD...bwa hahahahahahahaha
m.w. Adams You come lashing out at some cartoon stereotype but talk about a 6th grade insult. Hilarious.
@@guffinator70 ooooh..lashing out..bwa hahahahahaha yeah I'm gettin' your mentality..but then you are the clown with 6th grade insults..so there's that...anything informative to say? or are you just going to be butt hurt about cosplaying harley riders being called out for being that...I'm willing to bet your chaps are assless for more than one reason...are you winning yet?
I discovered one thing that slowed my Indian down. Deer.
RIP indian
Nah man that's just hard-core hunting.
Hope you're ok though
@@badopinionsrighthere this reply was so grossly slept on LOL
🤣🤣. Dag
I have kangaroo and deer down here to avoid
on my chieftain 🇦🇺
Ford mustangs were shit until camaro came back out. Now both are bad ass. Two companies is a good thing.
theyre both shit because of hellcats and demons
@@sylthaya7571 hellcats are shit LMFAO
Sylthaya hellcats will still get smoked. Especially if you supercharge. With a stock Challenger you gotta rebuild the bottom end however a stang is different.
@@TheJMan1K to be honest the Chevy Ford and Dodge build bottom ends that with sustain over a 1000 rear tire horsepower long proven by Kenny Bell of the only all billet aluminum water cooled Bolt on superchargers as his opening page on his website ask you to join the Ken bell 1000 horsepower club as pictured with a camaro, mustang and challenger... But I am assuming as there is a untold problem with the supercharger Dodge is using on the hellcats as something to do with seals and bearings that discetagrate into fine particals of metal that go circulating through out the engines carried in the oil.. NOT GOOD to say the least as one guy reported Dodge voided his warranty after finding a violation not related as they were looking for any accuse to keep from have to give the guy a new hellcat supercharged engine at what price $$$$$??? A Ford supercharged cobra jet engine can cost as much as $50k and a CoPo small block Chevy can cost as much as $40k+ that proves it's only as good as the dealer ...as the way the ford dohc 32v ,the all aluminum Chevy small block with the the LS Nascar heads and now Dodge with a supercharger of all three pony car engines today are no tolerance for one spec of any foreign or internal part of anything breaking lose and floating around inside the engines making any scratches on anything as you will not have anything left over to rebuild except maybe a Cam cover
Jun 28, 2019 · ... sixth- generation Chevrolet Camaro will, in fact, be discontinued at the end of the 2022 calendar year.
Polaris had a good line up of American bikes called Victory. But bought the Indian name then dropped the more affordable Victory for the Indian line up. I like the Indians... but still preferred the Victory bikes shame they are gone now
Waste of a great line of bikes. Its criminal to shite can the Vic.
But they have been offered $ for the rights to the Victory name. They not selling for more than one reason. I believe down the road Victory will be back.
@ピーチャン No more then any other bike company line up Honda Suzuki..so on
Polaris dumped Victory because they brought a product to a brand fight. Doesn’t matter how good the product is when many bikers want to buy a lifestyle. HD offers that plug n play ideal. So they warmed over the Octane into a Scout and their cruiser into a Chieftain. They’ve been masterful with marketing. I want a Springfield badly.
No point keeping Victory around when it’s taking money from the Indian line... and double the parts and development costs? This is exactly why Mopar won’t bring the Cuda back as a regular production car and GM won’t bring back the Trans Am. It’ll compete with their existing lineups.
K ris ....you are spot on Kris. I have a friend that’s a bigwig at Ducati and he says the folks at Polaris are a lot smarter than we think and dumped Victory for a reason
The left tank is decoration
The difference in the ride is because of the suspension
I love Harley, Honda, and Indian. You like what you like...nothing wrong with preference!!!
John here love my VTX 1800-C HONDA 2006
I love and respect them all too...old nighthalks, suzuki GS', cbx's, little honda rebels, harley fxr's... I have no hate for any of them. I'm kind of the same with cars....
Two wheels is two wheels! I've owned a whole spectrum of brands and fell in love with Harley. I get excited to ride each and every different model brand and sizes I can.
Sean: Makes a video complaining about Indian and saying they will NEVER buy one again.
Also Sean: "Everybody thinks I hate Indian and I don't know why."
There's a difference between realizing there's no profit in something and hating it. Why, I'll wager that almost 100% of people that own and enjoy Indians don't do it for profit.
@@anfman1986 He went on a hate Indian tear because he got jerked around by ONE dealer. That's why he caught so much flack about it. Nothing to do with the bike, company, etc. Just ONE dealer... and all dealers are independent so it's not like Indian Motorcycle Company was the issue. There's just as much profit in it as anything else, he just got screwed on one bike and went on a rant about how he'll never buy Indians again. And just so it sinks in, it was because of ONE dealership, that's it.
Spot on, competition is good for the consumer! I've had 4 Harley's, a Yamaha, 2 Suzuki's, a Honda, a small Indian Enduro back in the day, 70cc, 6 speed if I remember correctly. At 63 if I get another bike it will most probably be an Indian Springfield, Chieftain , or maybe even the Challenger.
I have a 2017 Indian Springfield with the Stage 2 cams and six shooter exhaust. I absolutely love this bike. Nice to see more Indians on your channel.
It would be dope if Indian made a V4 and called it the Super Scout!
Ive ridden the Darkhorse and the RoadKing, both nice bikes. I found the Harleys more exciting to ride even though I enjoyed the Chief/Chieftain line.
still think so? and why?
Harley rider that loves Indians too! Can't wait to ride the FTR! Also own a Ducati Superbike...bikes are cool...love your channel!
Same, I ride an XR1200, and I would love a side by side comparison.
Its not that I "hate" Indians. I hate the Computer Design's that make them up. It simply looks like shite!
Hello McEconomist! "We should all hope ANOTHER AMERICAN COMPANY COMES OUT." Oh you mean like VICTORY!!! YEAH BUDDY!!! IDIOT!!!
Do you actually own a CVO? I see that in your profile picture
@@sushi_edits225 Yes, and a Revival Edition Electra Glide, #1372
I ride a 2018 Indian chieftain classic and it is smooth i also have the stage 2 cams and the stage 1 air cleaner and exhaust
The Harley/Indian rivalry is a traditional thing and goes all the way back to 1907. What most people don't know is that it was a made-up show for the riders. Behind the scenes the Davidson's, Mr. Harley, and early Indian bosses Hendee & Hedstrom were good friends.........
Uh huh... that's why HD lobbied the hell out of the government in the 1940's to be the exclusive military contractor. Knowing that would put Indian out of business? With friends like that, you dont need enemies.
@Wayne Gordon In the history books. One anecdote tells that Arthur Davidson and Mr. Hendee traded cattle since both were amateur farmers.
@@LARGO125 That I never read about or heard. I do know that H-D lobbied the govt for tariff protection against cheap British import bikes after WWII but was denied.
Love the sound of the thunderstroke motor, super, super deep rumble. What I don't like is their throttle, the 2019 Thunderstrokes have a bad delay on the throttle that gets worse as you turn down the riding modes, sport ends up so twitchy it is impossible to be smooth, and tour mode has like a 3 second delay on the throttle. I was able to test ride a Chieftan with the 116 and stage 2 kit, TONS of torque, and sounds incredible, but so twitchy it is downright dangerous to ride (the 111 was annoying, the 116 was so twitchy it is scary). To give you an idea of how crazy twitchy the 116 is, I was less worried about the back end breaking loose on a Super Duke, a vastly more powerful bike haha.
Spot on with the competition issue it is always good to keep the big manufactures working hard to give us what we want.
Great point about competition. We need multiple manufacturers in any given segment of motorcycle. They push each other for innovations, features, and pricing.
I’m a big fan of Indian and what they are doing. I love the scout as a Harley alternative and now they are targeting the sportier crowd with the FTR 1200, something that Harley really hasn’t been able to do. I completely agree that two good American motorcycle companies will only make each other better. Great video as always.
How does a ftr 1200 compare to a sportster? They’re not the same still of bike.
@@WoodyRides He said "sportier".
Will Alford oh? Well what is a sportier?
@@WoodyRides Sportier is an adjective. Example "The sportier crowd. This bike is Sportier than that one. I would like a bike that is just a bit sportier." In reference to motorcycles it often entails shorter wheelbases and higher riding suspensions (as this allows the bike to make tighter turns) as well as higher revving engines with more horsepower.
Will Alford sounds cool
The intake/exhaust/cam package really opens that Thunderstroke 111 motor up. Ripping on it above 3,500 rpm is stupid fun.
If this guys legs were bongos this wouldve been a damn music video
Cap on the left is a dummy cap just for looks to have that mirror image look. They did that on a lot of older Harley Dynas & Softails as well
I love all american brand bikes, past and present. Harley, Buell/EBR, Indian, and Victory. Personally living in Wisconsin i have a soft spot for buells and ebrs.
I Agree. I would Love to get my hands on a Buell 1125R...
I'd love to see the breakdown of both Harley Davidson and Indian and see what the ratio is of Made in America parts. I believe the Indian has it hands down. I own both and would have to choose one over the other!
Left cap is purely decoration
Not sure you saw me Sean. I was in the granite tractor trailer hanging out the window trying to get your attention, At the end of the video. Stay safe great videos.
Why Polaris why you killed Victory?? Shame on you Polaris the natural third brand should be reborn!!!!!
Why keep victory when it had lost millions of dollars per year for 18 years straight. It just wasn't worth draining resources away from profitable marks to keep a line of bikes which people weren't buying?
Because reviving a brand that has as much history as the competition and making the same bikes, but better for less, is easier to make profits and steal a portion of the market than it would be to compete against Harley with a relatively new brand with slightly similar motorcycles.
tyler beyl
Polaris only owned one production line.
In 2014 they used that line to build bikes that had zero issues because the skill levels were all in place to build Indian.
Only an idiot would have attempted to start with all new unskilled people. That group built the new Indian and flat killed it, those bikes were perfect from day one, I know because I own one.
From day one, Indian has technology wise been 5 to 7 years ahead of Harley.
I don't see that changing, without new ownership HD could be gone very soon, HD is a has been bike now with poor workmanship and little future.
The other cap on the tank is just for looks as we cant have dual tanks anymore, but they wanted that old school vintage look.
I've got a 2017 cheiftain limited with the stage 2 kit. Right up the road for yall in york would love to have you test it.. the stage 2 really wakes it up!
can i test it? just to try it out?
How much did it cost for the stage 2 kit ???
What do u think about the z400??? Starting to like the naked look more and more... need some insight... I'm on a 2017ninja300abs
2018 CDH w/ Stage 3...123HP...144TQ...dyno tuned and dynoed by an Indian performance group.
I am sooo looking at getting a Chief Darkhorse or Springfield either this fall or next spring. Going to my dealers site right now to check what they have in stock...
hi. tell me, if you compare victory hardball and Indian Springfield dark horse, how much are they different or similar?
I own a '17 Indian bagger that I purchased after riding the HD Street Glide. Love the way the SG looks above all other baggers but I went for function over form and bought the Indian. Better seat, better suspension, better clutch engagement, adjustable windshield. You can make some of those changes to a Street Glide, but it's a shame you have to at $25K. By the way, thanks to competition, HD fixed the clutch engagement issue on the 2019's.
Love my Lloydz 121” Roadmaster 119hp/149tq.
G&A_OnTheRoad Truck’n , love my Lloydz 109” Victory Vegas 122hp/145 tq.
I would love to see a review and your openion on royal enfields continental gt 650 motorcycle, thank you
I'll never own another flat paint bike. I had a Shadow in flat black. My jeans wore shiny spots on the side of the tank.
I would have to say if I were ready to trade my Scout 60 in, that would be one of my first test rides.
I embrace both, 2007 HD Electra Glide and a 2018 Indian Scout Sixty
Competition is good, that's why I ride a Big Dog chopper with the SS 117 super sidewinder.
I prefer 6 speed bikes.
Better for cruising on Hwy.
As always great episode Shan ,
and Very nice Indian ....
Keep the episodes coming.
🤝👍😎
I'm torn between the dark horse and the vintage. I love the white walls and chrome everywhere but that matt black is just rough lookin!
I’ve had Harley’s, the Indian Scout is the best bike I’ve ever ridden.
i had a scout 60 gave it away, could not in clear conscience sell it. 4 gear whinned real loud the suspension was almost non existent, battery lasted 8 months nothing was under warranty! The dealer in Kingman where i live went out of business last year, i know why
I agree with you Sean 100% as a nation we need competition between companies if there was only one motorcycle company or only one retail chain what do you think would happen to the quality of the product there'd be no quality in the price would be through the roof. By the way that Indian dark horse was an awesome bike you were riding. And the old boy that owns that bike seem pretty cool..take care of Sean and keep putting out the awesome vids.
Well considering Harley quality is foen and their price's are absolutely outrageous i believe you've been proven right
I wouldn't call this a bike review, not by far... good video and audio quality by the way..
Thank you for doing this video. The best part, to me, is when you say, "And the interesting thing is, as of right now, there really is no Harley-Davidson equivalent to this bike. Because this is the same everything as . . . the Chief Vintage and the big bikes, except, no . . . upper fairing and no saddlebags. If it had the saddlebags it'd be like the Road King. If it had the upper [fairing] and saddlebags it'd be like the Street Glide." Differently put, Indian has made a bagless bagger; a cruiser on a touring frame. I test rode the Chief Dark Horse earlier this week and found it to be the best bike I've ever ridden. (I have an '18 Softail Street Bob right now and was on an '18 Road King before that.) I wish the MoCo would do something to match up with the Chief Dark Horse in the marketplace. If not, my next bike is likely to be the Chief Dark Horse.
I appreciate your Words of Wisdom parts on these videos
Love the scriptures love the vids ..... Love all bikes keep up the great work . For every seat there is a but
yeah the cherry picked scriptures..I've got more than a handful you wouldn't like..you know like commands to kill women..children including babies..so sweet so nice so loving so..well I'm not sure what..hey wanna buy a slave?
M.w. Adams I am comfortable in my faith and no I don’t want to own a slave . I am sorry you were but hurt by my faith . Have a nice day!
Michael Wills best response my friend 🙌🏽
John Cavar - 6k on maintenance. Routine maintenance. If memory serves me correctly, Victory was rated as #1 or #2 in reliability the last year or two in production.
I've always loved the Indian bikes, great video man 👊
Hey there brother, I had a question for you. I know you have test driven many, many motorcycles in your lifetime. I am on the market for a bagger. I have a Kawasaki Vaquero or Indian chieftain on my list. In your opinion, which of these 2 is the best choice? I am looking at 2016s for both models.
I am german , have a Bmer , a Harley Fat boy and would love to have an Indian . You are so correct with the power of competition, The good news is that my hangout here in Bremerton caters to all bikers to and we all have fun on 2 wheels
I really want a indian dark horse, but since the scout is smaller I suspect it might be better to learn on it since i am still a pretty new rider, what do you guys think?
I was on road trip in Maine and met a another rider with a Indian and his compliant was not enough Dealer around the country to service them. And had to plan his trip somewhat around d location of Dealership
Can I ask, why do you guys have 2 channels both about motorbikes? Why not combine the 2?
2nd cap is for fuel level maybe? If not an outright guage, then the sending unit? Nice bike.
Sean can you do a video of your personal collection?
I think he rides whatever he wants until its sold haha
A bike that needed $6000 in maintenance?!? I need to see that invoice!
No doubt !!
@Donald Trump Herr Trumplestilskin riding it like he stole it!😂👍🏻
It seems to me @Srkcycles, when you speak of the liking of bikes which we do sometimes, we are confused in our whishes.
When we say, 'I love Harley Davidson bikes', it isn't about 'love' at all.
It's just a matter of greediness towards the thing I want to be mine..
That might be called love by us, but isn't at all.
Love does not separate, period. :-)
That's why, 'loving' the HD makes automatically the hating of Indian, Yamaha or Kawasaki who looks like it.
Cause the greed of thought, separates, as it always does.
When we really Love.., it counts for all we see and experiance..the gras, the clouds, the sun, and also the 'me' riding the bike.
As you've shown us many times by doeing it.:-)
Cheers!
I thought you were gonna review the postal truck😂
Harley's 107 was due in part to the Victory 106. Each company is pushing each other to be better!
Another awesome video. Thanks 😊
My dream bike is the Suzuki Boulevard M109r and I was so excited to ride it at a motorcycle demo. Long story short. I fell in love with the feel of the Dark Horse. I did not want to get off of it
Harley and Indian guys are always trying to make their bikes super fast. Guys spend $15,000 in upgrades to get to 60 a little faster. Truth is, these bikes are never very fast. Just too heavy.
100% agree, although it is fun buying aftermarket parts and wrenching on bikes
Absolutely correct “It’s stupid fast” naw it’s not and never will be but they are fun to ride
Biggest issue with Indian is the lack of choices and after the last few companies that ran Indian they have a lot to prove before there fully trusted again
I love the videos but yall need to scale back on the ads man lol
Thanks for sharing the Word on your reviews.
Your 100% right, competion drives innovation; just don't tell the hippies that. BTW, when is the Honda Fury review coing out . . .
Dude I'm so torn right now between the indian springfield darkhorse and the road king special.
he might "say" over 100hp, but dyno charts show you need at least the big bore kit upgrade to 116" to hit that on the Indian Thunderstroke engine. he's most likely closer to 90hp
How does it compare to the M109R?
I love lambos and Ferrari. I agree... room for two American bike companies.
Hey bud. Been watching your videos for a while and I love them all. Just wanted to mention to you though I don't know if you know this but the reason most people wear leather gloves when the writing is because Kevlar melts and when it melts it melts to your hand like having a plastic bag on your hand and sticking it in the fire. Other than that you're doing a perfect job love the videos keep up the good work
Probably mean "when riding"
I really think you should have a podcast man.
Shawn-“ i don’t know why people think I hate Indian” also Shawn makes a video named (why I hate Indian motorcycles)
Harley and Indian are cool bikes but i love Vic's...they are special.. especially Magnum
I am Canadian, I like metric bikes. For some reason they come all the way across the ocean, and I can buy excellent quality reliable low maintenance great looking metric motorcycles for a fraction of the price of a Harley Davidson OR an Indian. You would think maybe motorbikes built on the same continent would be competitive. they are not even close.
Not true. 2017 the last year for the Raider (s) it was $15800.00 the Dyna lowrider s was $17400.00. Thats hardly a fraction of the price. Keep it real man.
@@draganm7823 I do not ride large displacement bikes. Until recently Harley's smallest bikes were 883. Compared to my 2014 750 shadow, used, 3000 km $4500 cdn, no comparison. That is keeping It real, man! Some of us cant afford the insurance on expensive large displacement bikes.
@@draganm7823 That's still $1,600...dump $1,600 into the Harley and it'll still badly lose a drag race to the stock Raider. Also, reliability. 1 in 4 Harleys have to visit the dealer for a repair other than routine maintenance in the first 3 years over ownership. Yamaha? 1 in 10....freakin' no brainer on that comparo.
@@jamessmith5970 thank you, that dragan fellow has more dollars than sense. I met HD loyal people who hate metric bikes, and perceive a hd breakdown as a great way to meet very nice people who may come to the rescue! I had a breakdown once on a 1980 yam 250 exciter, an internal engine fail. it turns out, nice people will rescue metric bike riders as well! I prefer to not be at the mercy of strangers, or to take kindness/generosity for granted.
PhilHewkin
You are a fan of slavery... bikes made in places with little to no protections or salary for employees cost less.
Governments that encourage companies to harvest natural resources or manufacture in third world nations support slavery, and customers who buy those products encourage slavery.
You said “metric” but I’m betting you aren’t buying the expensive BMWs or Ducatis....
Persons living in the west shopping for the great deals on third world products all need to come to terms with this and stop supporting companies like Nike, Kawasaki, and Nestle. Slavery is bad, and still happens today.
The first SRK video I saw was the Indian odometer video LOL I love how you try salvaging your relationship with Indian and I get it Sean I do but you threw a nice well deserved dig at them and I think you should stand by your feelings but the pubic dis will forever disbar you from Indian so the heck with it. That video was the reason I subscribed to your channel, if that says anything.
Sully he reviews used bikes at his store mostly. I doubt he’s worried about what Indian thinks. Although Indian does have a lot of good will from us on the internets. I own one, fine machines.
@@cembanditx1 Huh!? If you have been following his videos since the Indian odometer incident the comment would have made sense to you, he does care. Polaris does make a good motorcycle
I tested one, felt the bike to be high quality in most all categories.
Thanks brother and God bless you. I love the Indian Dark Horse.
Is that one a Polaris or Chriss Craft Indian?
I like power cruisers and dream of a variation of the black death bike but I like the Indians and Harleys for what they are. The death bike is a harley but nothing like what they make now. The Harleys have such a great aftermarket too if you want to customize anything.
Nice bike but I'm keeping my Victory X1.
hey man; the Chief Dark Horse is equivalent to a Soft Tail Slim in the harley lineup. aesthetics aside both are "big V-twin" w/ floorboards, 6-sp transmissions; no bags
you go up _slightly_ in the lineup to the Springfield, and this is where a Road King or a Heritage Classic may lie. the nice thing about the Springfield is the suspension geometry is closer to the Cheiftan or Street Glide Special without all the heavy weight of the full front fairing. If I was to get one today Springfield Dark Horse would probably be my goto with the Big Bore kit :)
Stage 2 Indian cams likely around 90 horse maybe? Anyone actually have dyno numbers?
I should've bought me a Indian. Never had one. The mock gas cap is just for looks. My 06 Softail Deluxe had a mock gas cap, makes the tank look sometrical.
You should do a 0-60 time on the next Victory freedom 106 that comes through your place. 🤘
Spacecoastz I own a 16’ Vegas with some work done to it, think power to weight ratio it would be close.
I own a Victory Boardwalk, my second victory motorcycle. I'll tell you that the Indian will lose badly in a race next to the Vic.
Everything is right on the bike EXCEPT that chain cover body panel....WHAT IS THAT?! what were they thinking?!?!
no hydralic clutch??
I love both brands but preferable to Indian especially since they’re more willing to try new things. I wish there was an American sport bike maker comparable to Ducati or one of the Japanese brands.
When you were selecting first gear you "stomped" on the selector and it clunked into gear similar to a HD, was that habit on your part or does the gearbox require that treatment?
I haven't had to do that on any bike I've ridden. If it doesn't go into 1st immediately I just pump the clutch once.
All motorcycle transmissions that I have ever ridden do this. It's a result of the transmissions on motorcycles not being synchronized. You don't hear a high soudning clack on the Indian like the Harley because the Indian is a gear driven primary and the Harley is a chain drive with a tensioner so it slaps around when you put it in gear. The Honda I had for years did the same thing as the Indian...nature of the beast!
I think the Indian Motorbikes are Beautiful machines and look AWESOME!
Notice the crinkling in the Faux Chrome strips on the rear and front fender @ 2:11 .... poor poor fit and finish. I owned two Road Master's, never again. I bet I could find more things wrong if I was actually in front of it.
If I bought a bike online from you how would you get my trade in?
FYI: Saw a You-Tube cycle video where the No.1 Reliable cycle brand was Yamaha....Harley came in 5th.....Honda, Kaw, and Suzuki were in the middle!.......I was shocked!
That's not just some schmuck's opinion either. That list comes from a Consumer Reports study conducted over several years with thousands of data points. HD is working hard to shake that reputation that still haunts them from the AMF era.
Constructive criticism: If you're going to invite either an expert or owner of a bike, and you don't want to waste time introducing him/her. Use the same overlays that shows up the specs of the motorcycle to give us some info on the guy.
It will make your video look more profesional
Would it be stupid or ok to get a Victory now?
What if Harley and Indian teamed up?!?! Sportster scout? Dark glide?
I love both brands, always have. I ride a Harley springer and I’d LOVE to have one of these Indians parked right next to it. Hey,,, that’s a good idea! My wife’s gonna kill me!
Great bikes but they are not retaining value. I got hosed on my 2016 Roadmaster. Sweet bike but I went back to a Goldwing. Not as attractive at the curb and gas pump. But on the road, the wing is superior
I tried a Wing, but do not like not having floor boards. The Indian has huge floor boards, and mine also has the mustache bars, so I can always find a comfortable positions on long touring rides. The boxer style motor on the wing prevents forward controls and no place for "long" floor boards, or even decent road pegs. I'm used to forward controls and will stick with that. It's whatever you're used to.
John Ayres definitely ride what you love! I can’t say anything bad about any of them. I’m just infinitely more happy on the wing. I did many 600 mile days on my 2008 and did 200 on the new one today.