Elon Musk Proves Linus Right
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
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Elon Musk finally acknowledges that Tesla’s hardware 3 probably can’t be upgraded to Full Self Driving via software.
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Elon lied. In other news, water is wet and the sky is blue.
lmao accurate
Erm asshkually 🤓 water itself isn't wet, "wet" is defined as "Covered or soaked with a liquid, such as water". Something touching water is wet, water itself isn't wet. Of course, most bodies of water you see would be considered wet because water is touching water. In other words, one water compound is not wet, two are.
🤓🤓🤓
All the water in the world is wet, but water isn't wet
God Elon haters are so cringe. We get it you don't like the guy.
God Joke haters are so cringe. We get it you dont like the joke
Another point for the idea of "Never buy a product based on the promise of future features"
Buy the product that sits in front of you. If FSD is the reason you wanted a Tesla, dont buy one until FSD is available as a fully fledged feature.
Better point: "Never buy a product made by a company run by Elon Musk"
never believe marketing fluff.
people have been falling for this stuff since steam early access, i think corps just started to understand the principle behind that now as well, you dont need to sell a good product anymore, its enough to sell a promise of a good product in the future,
@@дигл_лайвneVer BuY AnyThIng FrOm ThAt mAn
@@дигл_лайв Elon Musk isn't Tesla. Thousands of engineers, designers, and programmers make up Tesla and his other companies. I am not buying a product from Elon, I am buying a product from Tesla. You are discrediting all these people, their efforts and their skills.
Honestly, if you sell me a product based on a specific core feature, whether it's fully implemented or promised in the future, and that feature is either taken away or never comes to fruition, I should be allowed to make a full return regardless of how long ago the purchase was made. Companies need to be held accountable. No more selling vaporware and getting away with it.
im not american but could you not sue the shit out of them for false advertising?
@@sarcasticdragon8673
Well the muskrat managed to win a lawsuit from his own investors who he swindled into buying his brothers' bankrupt solar company.
So y'know, there are no consequences for the rich in America.
I felt that way when Nvidia removed Gamestream from my Shield. That's the reason I bought it. If you can remotely remove functionality then I should be entitled to a full refund
That also include Linus's new backpack.
@@sarcasticdragon8673 I'm not sure, but if you garnered a huge amount of customer complaints that felt scammed, I think you might have a chance of suing them for false advertising. But you can't make a case just for yourself, it's not gonna work most of the time.
LMFAO Elon said fsd would be here in like 2016
It is here. He just aint the one that brought it. If you live in California you can even get a ride from one.
@@johncarson7702 silence bot
@@johncarson7702If you're talking about Waymo, even they aren't true FSD yet.
They're at level 4 autonomous driving, no human intervention needed but isolated only to a certain region because they use HD 3D maps to enable level 4 self driving.
Tesla is at level 2, 2.5 max. It will struggle to get to level 3 because it has no redunancy after cameras. All because Musk is too cheap to use LiDARs in Teslas. Mercedes beat them to level 3.
Either way, Musk promised FSD (level 4 minimum) for almost a decade now and Tesla is still at level 2. The guy is a snake oil salesman.
I can't wait for the cross-country drive with no interventions that they've promised for the end of 2017.
Maybe now that it's been delayed they can do it using a 2020 Tesla Roadster.
@@ChrisErwood dont be silly it'll work on the 25k dollar car.
Linus sound more like Louis Rossmann every day
i know, its amazing. more people should become like Louis, especially content creators.
True. Both have very little clue about Tesla 🤣
@@Tschacki_Quacki complaining doesnt mean they dont understand. complaining means they understand and dont like it, maybe your the one with a lack of understanding about tesla if you think there is anything positive to say about a company which produces battery powered bombs and fires.
@@Tschacki_Quacki how's Elon's boot taste?
Haha I just came off Louis’s video 😂
Having your car operating as a rideshare while you're at work is essentially 'having a messy or dirty car cause by others to deal with after work'.
also the wear-and-tear on the car would be insane, if you have a one hour commute each way and spend 8 hours at work, that's multiplying your cars driving time by 5.
Could be worth it if it makes decent money.
@@Jona69 Yes because you always hear Uber drivers talking about how profitable it is to do. Oh wait, no, they mostly complain that they barely make money to cover the trips except from tips and whos going to tip a driverless car?
@@ChrisCrond For Uber drivers, the money has to be worth their time as well. Letting your car drive people doesn’t cost you any time except cleaning and maintenance.
You guys have terrible imaginations. Future-casting is not for you. 1. There will be a rating system. You will be able to only pick up say 4 stars and above. 2. People who leave messes would pay extra fees, disincentivizing that behavior. 3. If it’s a mess, it could be sent to an in network cleaners that would clean it for you before it picks you back up.
As Marquees Brownlee continuously says in his videos, do not buy tech products based on what the manufacturer promises, but only based on what it can do at the time of order. That wouldn't put you in any of those difficult frustrating cases described in this video
When was that video when Elon said something like that buying any other car would be a waste of money? You could have bought any car and now be like I hope it keeps running long enough so I can directly switch to the one that works like implied in that video.
which is funny coming from Mr. ''Tesla and Apple shill'' Marques
Lol. Guy that just made really licking vid about Apple service and essentially forwarded their propaganda about good device not being essentially easy to repair.
Which is good advice. It's a shame Marques shills for Tesla so hard.
11:44 Nobody really _defines_ cars’ depreciation. Kelley Blue Book collects data on actual selling prices of cars, crunches the numbers, and publishes the summary info. They’re not technically setting any prices, they’re just reporting them.
…however, Kelley Blue Book collects its data from both dealers and private sales, and both dealers and private sellers use Kelley Blue Book values as a baseline for pricing, so…
You can tell he's not a car person.
Yes. You are correct. Car pricing has always been a self-referential model.
The short of it: Any car (anything?) is worth what you are able to get someone to pay you for it.
I don't think it's at all suitable to refund some kind of deprecated value.
1) People often take out loans to buy a car so the consumer is going to be left with a bunch of debt if they get a partial refund (even a full refund would be a loss).
2) It's Tesla's fault, their false advertising lead to the problem, they're responsible for any economic damage it caused.
There are also a not-insignificant number of people who leased these cars and paid for this software as an option, and many of those lease cars have now been returned, meaning that those people spent thousands of dollars on a service that was never actually provided.
If a person takes out a loan to buy a car, even if the car delivers everything that was promised, they're still paying more for that car than it was charged by the manufacturer. As much as I think Elon Musk is a scumbag, I don't think the payment method used by the customer should have a say on whether they refund full value or more than that. What I do think should be taken into account is inflation and the price of buying an equivalent vehicle today.
Given the reward package Elon got that's worth more than the entirety of Tesla's profits in the company's entire lifetime and their regular issues with parts availability, I get the feeling that Tesla can't realistically do what it takes to make good on their promises or compensate the people who've been lied to
They have 25 Billion of cash laying around so idk about that lol, his compensation is valued in shares of Tesla that were set aside when the package was voted in, it's worth so much because the stock has gone up so much since then
the package is all about sales and stock price, which he archived all that, the myth of consent: Tesla agree, shareholders agree, some dude in internet disagree.
@@nguyenhanh9479 They had a court case and at least 1 judge thought it was ridiculous, but no, it's just whiners on the internet... 🙄
@@InfernosReaper so 80% of shareholders agreed but the judge thinks Elon is bad? again, the myth of consent and don't forget the lawyers is wanting 7B in fees and also don't forget if they win the judge will maybe get 1B award holy the only winner in this lawsuit is the judge and the lawyers, not the shareholders which they claimed they fight for them
@@nguyenhanh9479 80% of shareholders were misled and believed it.
Moreover, things aren't like movies and shows where whoever has the most shares can do whatever they what with the company.
There are laws in place to protect minority shareholders and the company itself from bad decisions.
Giving a compensation package that is worth more than the company's total profits in its entire lifetime is *not* in the best interest of the company in general, let alone when it's going to a guy who
1) lied investors over the Solar City purchase
2) taken company resources for pet projects
3) lied customers about numerous products
4) sells company stocks at every opportunity
By all rights, Elon should be in jail, but for some reason there are *still* people who rush to not only defend him, but demand he be *rewarded* for all of that.
Elon Musk: I'm smarter than you, please give me your money.
More like: I have more money than you, give me your money
I have pockets full of emeralds. Give me your company and name me founder.
How could u not believe his „I know more about manufacturing than any human currently alive on earth“ statement. Look at what a genius he is /s
@@mmm-mmm At this point its about saying whatever it takes to keep investment gamblers happy and the stock prices going up. Sam Altman does exactly the same thing. It's a game with a finite lifespan, but there's a lot of money to be made while it lasts. And the people giving out the investment money might not even take failure as a reason to blacklist such a person. Adam Neumann got given a bunch of money to do WeWork 2.0 with rent-to-own apartments a while back, so...
When the FSD hardware changed the first few times, he offered upgrades to those that bought FSD. He didn't this time: the correct "fix" is that they do.
Hw3 is on par with hw4 right now given the current software stack.
Should Tesla be on the hook for the car forever? Yes, obviously.
In the UK, buyers of new goods and services have the right, by law, to expect that they will last for a reasonable period of time. What's a reasonable life for a car? I see 20+ year old vehicles on the road all the time. Given how car culture works in the US, I'd imagine the life expectancy for a car there is even longer. Sometimes you can get parts for older vehicles from the manufacturer, but there are third parties that can and do make parts. Fast forward 10 years: if Tesla drops support for your vehicle by way of software, how is a third party supposed to take that over?
Clearly Tesla *must* be on the hook for maintaining the capabilities of their vehicles, and the expected life of that support is going to be measured in decades, not years.
If you don't want to be on the hook for supporting products for 30 years, don't get into the business of making products that are expected to last 30 years.
@GHOSTSTARSCREAM they have an 8 yr warranty, not to mention the cost is not as high as you say, not even close. it's around $15k for a model 3.
@@donkey7921 And even once the battery is no longer useful in the car, it's still useful as a battery backup. Obviously some retrofitting will be required, but there are already people out there buying up old car batteries and using them as backup power farms.
@@donkey7921 The model 3 is more than double that. It starts at $38,990 USD and $49,990 CDN respectively.
@@MilesKilometer I was talking about the battery costs which OP said "The battery will be dead in atleast/most 10 years.Then it'll be in a landfill because it would cost as much or more as new car would."
@@donkey7921 My b I misinterpreted what you were saying. $15k for a new battery is nuts though, you can absolutely get a new car for near enough to that.
My cyberpunk 2077 Xbox controller got stick drift before the game even released...
Seriously? Damn I've been using my One S controller since launch and it still has no stick drift.
@@jeevannair393 I've never had stick drift on any controller I've ever owned. From PS2 to now. Either I'm the luckiest mofo ever, or people make a lot more of stick drift than they should. IMO.
You playing COD?
@@tyrannicpuppyThe only sticks I've ever had that drifted were the joycons. I had a 360 and PS3 controllers where sticks would stop going to one of the directions and become stiff, but the only drifts I've ever had were with joycons.
I still use my original Xbox one controller, no issues despite using it often, but PlayStation will have a plethora of issues within the first 4 months of using.
NVidia said, at the time when Tesla were still using Tegra-3, that it was unlikely that it would ever be legally compatible with FSD, even if Tesla managed to actually pull it off.
2:50 Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I can probably list off about 100,000 different reasons that I would absolutely never in a TRILLION years want a bunch of random strangers in my car .. IF I WASNT THERE!!!!!!! Now if you run a taxi company or something like that. Completely different story. I'm all for that. My own PERSONAL vehicle? Ohhhh HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO!
I'm about 105% sure I literally just explained why it isnt a thing. Absolutely no one wants this. Except you apparently...
I’m astonished someone as tech savvy as Linus actually thinks people using their personal vehicles as unattended taxis is a sane idea. Even if the technology worked (it doesn’t yet) has he met the general public? People don’t respect property they don’t own. The car would get trashed or worse in short order. There always are a small number of people who would ruin it. Leaving trash, bodily fluids, doing irresponsible things, vandalism, theft, etc. Not to mention insurance and liability. A large company (think Waymo) might be able to handle these things but individuals cannot much less hope to make a profit.
Private personal vehicles as robo-taxis is an absurd bit of naive sci-fi wishful thinking. It’s almost textbook snake oil.
So he lied to his stakeholders here, too. He promised them AI would fix the self driving. now he's saying there's no self driving without what would either be and absurdly expensive upgrade or a recall to fix lagging hardware
What else is new? I mean a lot of his promises didn't work out. This is basically how wall street works "We new an exciting new product or service to sell to our stock holders. Our customers don't matter that much because we gain more money off the idiots who know nothing about actual products in wall street." The FCC could step in but people have voted to neuter it. Even then that's only within the US.
He said nothing like that.
@@andrasbiro3007pretty clear from what he said the hardware can't do what he promised so... Yeah, he did
He said that the full autonomy can be archieved mostly with software training and the new hardware.
@@Lonewolf_121
Nope.
He said:
"Our next-gen AI model after this has a lot of promise: ~5X increase in parameter count, which is very difficult to achieve without upgrading the vehicle inference computer."
So, he didn't say it's impossible. "Very difficult" is what his companies solve for fun before breakfast.
He also didn't say that the current-gen AI won't be suitable for robotaxi.
He also didn't say that an upgrade is impossible. In fact, he more like hinted at the possibility. It's been done once, from HW2 to HW3.
Totalbiscuit (rest in peace) was right once again.
Never pre-purchase based on promises or hype that companies can under-deliver or renege on.
A true spanking at scale could be 10% of their gross income for the next 5 years, not the equivalent amount each year but a tenth of each year, however much that is. Companies would stop that shit real quick with those kinds of stakes
According to Elmo Tesla doesn’t depreciate, but appreciate instead. So in fact they should refund more money than you paid.
Tesla should offer updates to every car until they can fulfill the Robo Taxi promise. Or give money back.
dont they already do that?
@@digzrow8745 No, if you are using HW2 or 2.5 you get a HW3 update if you pay for the FSD. There are no bundled update for HW4.
They are under no obligation to do that
@@h20dancing18 Actually, if they sold a product promising it would do X and it doesn't do X than it is a fraud
@@digzrow8745 No, people with hardware 2 or 2.5 could upgrade to 3 if signing for the FSD, no such thing is available to upgrade from 3 to 4.
I live in Germany and cant remember i saw any ads for any lawyers ever
Mazda promised Apple CarPlay for 2015 cars but delivered it without. Only became available in the next model in 2019 I think, and offered a paid upgrade to 2015-2019 models hardware to support it.
In 2016 Elon said that full self driving was as good as ready to use, that it just needed some more testing and changes in regulation. It could drive from LA to NY safer than a human. Not in the future, it could do it now, he said. After that, they've promised every year, that FSD would be available within a year.
Tesla Autopilot escorted my dad of the highway while he was having a minor stroke. Worth everything penny ❤
I hope he’s recovering well. But this is interesting because of how this could be used in a court case as an argument to how Tesla has helped the “great good” (if they were to ever get sued)
I work for a major insurance company in the US, and what I can tell you about depreciation pricing is it's complicated... Kelly Blue Book is an independent third party that provides various industries pricing for actual cash value of vehicles, but this is not by any means an absolute standard. Manufactures and insurers will typically take into account the blue book value of a vehicle, but also consider other factors including the current state of the Manheim Index (a measure of market pricing of used vehicles), current CPI of parts, and of course the condition of each vehicle. Using these variables, companies will typically have their own algorithms for pricing in case of a total loss or manufacturer buy back, and in the US each state has a governing body that produces guide ranges that a company's estimate must fall within.
Hope this is informative!! :)
Its like saying the LTT Screwdrivers are going to have a flashlight on it but when you buy its not there.
KBB is NOT an authority on depreciation like that.
They don't buy or sell cars, so you can't take what they say by face value. They have no stake in the values they assign.
Having no stake is a good idea though, right?
BlueBook, what the heck is that?
In Spain you call a proficient (perito in spanish), and he tells you with math and the general state of the vehicle the estimated market value of your specific unit.
Tesla has already offered FSD transfers a couple times over the past few years. So this might be something they will offer HW3 car owners. FSD transfers are essentially, you get to buy a new car and your existing FSD software gets transferred over to your new car at no cost.
I do not take Elons comment as ”FSD will never work on HW3” just ”It is hard to do”
Big company removing major feature: Sony PS2 and the ability to use it as a computer via Linux. Sold as both a game device and serious computing device. Half it's functionality because some people misused it.
I've got a class action check for you Linus:
I once was added to an AT&T class action which paid out. I got a cheque for less than 50 cents! They spent more printing and mailing than the actual cheque
Tesla promised the hw upgrade until hw4.... they did a lot of retrofits for hw2 and 1 vehicles to lvl 3
If that update the hardware for free til they achieve true self driving, at least Level 4 *minimum* Then that seems fair to me.
Cox Automotive is owned by Cox Enterprises, which I'm pretty sure is the same owner of Cox internet supplier
I'm sure fsd will work by hardware 25.0
Ah the only tragic lie was back to the future and the pozza hut oven. Throw in a cookie and out comes a massive pizza.
FSD owner here with 2019 model 3. I paid for FSD early on and have used it since release. I feel it has been worth it, especially for freeways and long distance travel. It is not perfect, but it’s better than any other technology out there.
So I feel like Linus crapping on Tesla for something that is extremely challenging such as FSD is hilarious. Its not like anyone else has a better technology. You can’t be picky for cutting edge tech
Consequences? A gang of lawyers will file a class-action lawsuit.
Elron Mollusk likes to embellish or lie...
The "Full" in FSD is like calling a dog licking his balls as "self cleaning" XD
lmao this metaphor
Current fsd is like dog licking everything but balls so were close
I am amazed at just how little coverage this has gotten, especially on the heels of the shareholder vote over his compensation package. You would think the groups that were opposed to the compensation package would be up in arms about this and calling to investigate if this information was withheld from the shareholders prior to the vote.
The drop in value from years of use shouldn't even be considered, if they can't provide promised features then they have to face the consequences and to be honest I think a full refund isn't enough. This isn't a small purchase, it's a damn car. Think about how much someone may have missed out on because they bought into the marketing instead of buying something more affordable, Tesla doesn't owe the value of the car, they owe the value of the money spent on the car, years of inflation included. Think that's too much? Don't lie to your customers next time.
full refund even if the car has been used?
The main thing Tesla's FSD sucks at fundamentally is that it conceptually tries to "drive like a human using only vision" yet does not use memory like a human to avoid repeating mistakes. If it takes the wrong lane into an intersection only to realize it needs to merge at the last second, it'll do that exact same thing every single time. There's an intersection by my house that it has failed over 100 times across evey version and succeeded 0 times. It doesn't matter how many times I specifically disengage it, it's never going to learn or remember it until the "generalized" solution as a whole gets it right. The reality is that no matter how good they get it, it's always going to drive like a human who is seeing a road for the very first time because that's how it was designed.
AFAIK this sort of problem could still be solved with updated map navigation data. At least one can hope.
skill issue
In German our courts have settled that question when it came to the big emissions scandal. The manufacturer has to buy the car back at retail price, but usage gets deducted from it. Depending on how long you had and how much you drove the car that left most who were entitled with the question of either keeping the car or sellling it for a low four figure amount.
This reminds me of the Volkswagen Diesel Emissions scandal. My dad bought a Golf Diesel because Volkswagen promised incredible gas mileage and he had a long work commute at the time. When the US Government cracked down on them cheating emissions tests, my dad didn’t get a refund. He instead received the current market value for the car as a buy-back. This happened to be only a little over half of what he paid for it only 3 years prior.
Unfortunately, if Tesla is pushed legally, they probably won’t need to give full refunds.
If presented with this fact, Melon Husk would undoubtedly create some ridiculous qualifier that would keep what Linus is saying from being true (legally).
to be fair, that era of WoW was also when ATi was having the worst driver issues ever. The cards were practically unusable for a LOT of people. And then Catalyst happened and it got WORSE
To be fair about the lawyer billboards, billboards are actually incredibly cheap compared to things like tv/radio, digital, and sports event advertising. So if they get one good bite where they can sue someone like Ford or Mcdonalds, they get paid 5 million to go away, and now they can afford their next house and 2 years worth of every billboard in the city off the commission.
The people who bought it based on that promise should be entitled to a free hardware upgrade where they have a Tesla representative come, take their car to their service, change the hardware and give it back.
So what was stated in the past was that FSD owners would be upgraded to new hardware if existing hardware could not run FSD. At the launch of HW 3.0, existing owners on HW 2.5 were upgraded to the new hardware at no cost. The stance when HW 4.0 launched was that HW 3.0 would still run FSD, but 4.0 would be more capable, and if that's no longer the case, it sounds like HW 3.0 owners would need to be upgraded, at least for those who have paid for FSD, which means they have payed several thousands of dollars, or are on a subscription service that Tesla can make money from to cover the cost. Additionally, Tesla has recently been running sales incentives allowing users to transfer their fully paid FSD license to a new car, which a number of people have taken advantage of, lowering the number of legacy customers that Tesla would need to upgrade out of their own pocket.
With all that said, if they don't upgrade HW 3.0 owners and FSD can't end up doing full autonomous driving on HW 3.0, I'm gonna be piiiiissed, lol.
AutoNation what’s that?
Even I know it was co-founded by Wayne Huizenga. Don’t know him? He bought Blockbuster in 1987.
It boils down to a simple premise. Responsible words, actions with responsive, respectful communication. And media that hold them accountable to it.
Side note: We almost need an arm of Labs that pertains to the overall companies being tested (something simple like a tier chart) could be a starting point, but eventually breakdowns of where companies (particularly big tech) truly fall on their words and actions.
In the US, Depreciation is 5 years apparently. There are various online calculators based on the make and model of the vehicle.
"Class life is the number of years over which an asset can be depreciated. The tax law has defined a specific class life for each type of asset. Real Property is 39 year property, office furniture is 7 year property and autos and trucks are 5 year property. See Publication 946, How to Depreciate Property."
I would say they need to 5x their hardware 4 compute to get even close to FSD. Waymo’s current taxi probably has 5-8x compute compute compare to a Tesla hardware 4
Car values are typically based on aggregate sales data and bank loan maximums. Sources for this info include Kelly Blue Book, Mannheim auto auctions, and National Automotive Dealer's Association (NADA) bank loan values for used cars.
For the last point: Nvidia worked with game companies to design levels for the Nvidia hardware.
Mirrors' edge had a broken glass level the made the game unplayable on ATI cards.
There was also the infamous hair works and other tessellations with excessive polygons that really chugged ATI hardware.
I doubt that’s possible, but the best way of doing this is swapping the boards from the V3 car owners that bought the Full Self Driving for V4 boards, if a V3 car owner buys the FSD they should be able to bring their car to Tesla and just do the same, also, there are a bunch of country’s where Tesla doesn’t exist, people just import them, so this upgrade should be simple enough for a Tesla technician to do, here in Uruguay there are a bunch of teslas, they need a safety check once a year (I think, I don’t remember exactly) so the owners just call a Tesla technician and get all theirs cars checked
In my opinion, people should be able to get a full refund on the whole car. The availability of this feature is a part of the car in the advertisement, they failed to deliver. It's on them for being dumb-malicious enough to advertise a feature that isn't close to existing, that they can't prove can exist on the hardware.
We need to stop letting companies get away with this. This was obviously bad behaviour that could have been prevented. When they lose money buying back a depreciated car, maybe they'll realize that lying actually has consequences.
or they could just do a hardware upgrade plan where an owner with hw3 takes their car in and the modules get swapped out.
He guessed or thought fsd would be possible by 2016-2024. Everyone can have a guess. I mean they are leading the way. And what they achieved until now is amazing. Will they ever solve fsd and all the edge cases, i dont know. Look at the first Tesla lane keeping video and the newest fsd version. And tell me they make no progress. 😂
This is the most clear headed comment I’ve read. Everything has gotten so mixed up that no one actually knows what was said, but you’re right he’s making progress and my question would be “What are others doing? Besides talking smack” this whole thing is Gray area laws haha
@@alexibarra4675So true. The actual tech here is groundbreaking and if it continues as planned could have massive impact on transportation but no one seems to care because… it’s more fun to shit on billionaires.
Why doesn’t LTT post their own review of FSD if they feel so strongly about it?
@@AlexWeiner right. There is other companies doing and working on fsd and some are open source. Why doesn’t ltt compare all systems and review them honestly. It would help to know who’s system is better or more worthwhile. But they’re not ready to be held accountable in that way
They also pressured customers by constantly raising the price of fsd saying if you don't add it today tomorrow it will be more expensive
there is a reference to ati on the right side of the image he is showing while saying there is no reference to ATI lol although it just says ATI graphics processor and its in the Mac section.
In July 2021 Tesla offered free hardware 3.0 upgrades to cars with the FSD package and hardware 2.0 and 2.5
Are you saying tesla wont do something they have already been shown to be willing to do in the past?
Now that's a title.
I feel like the answer needs to be something pretty financially catastrophic for Tesla. Companies need to actually feel these hits, not be able to just weather them without blinking an eye. I very much doubt that will remotely happen, but being required to issue up to a full refund pending some verified third party noting any viable deductions due to years of use. Or to have to upgrade the vehicles to the standard they promised. Seems like those are the minimum that the company should have to bear for selling something for years on a promise that just wasn't possible to achieve. Hold companies accountable for their promises for a change.
I would be surprised if any gen 3 cars are still on the road by the time Tesla gets full self driving working to even worry about needing to make the new computer fit.
Depreciation is determined by values that people are paying (retail and wholesale) for cars. Canadian black book and Kelly's blue book collect the data to generate the values.
Tesla definitely had the sense to put stipulations for this in the fine print.
Same thing with neuralink. We are light years away of having something at scale on that space.
Thunderf00t has called this too years ago.
Tesla would transfer the self driving to the new car and even give an attractive discount for the trade in, they would probably offer that before this even becomes a court case.
Is this about the auto parking? I dont get it why not just make it semi auto, and make it park, but you can stop the car by just stepping on a brake or add a pedal where a clutch would be for you to interact with the function.
Shouldn't be about compensation it should be about stopping miss selling.
9:07 - NO. If I buy a product, with a feature list saying I can upgrade hardware later, and then i'm told I can't.... that's fraud. They removed an option, that was promised, which enticed my purchase.
Even if I haven't upgraded/bought software.... I bought it with the promise I could if I wanted to.
Wait wait... Are the carbon buckets different in the M2? Because I'm uh.. a lot larger than a 36" waist and I sat in the buckets in an M2 and was actually pretty comfortable. I thought there was no way, but it's true.
Elon Musk promised Full Self-Driving to arrive next year every year since 2014.
The payout from Tesla should be above and beyond the estimated value discrepancy. Else, there was no real downside - you just retroactively sold the product at a fair price. That is getting off scot-free.
Most people aren't upset about it because it was pretty clear this is gonna happen sooner or later for anyone interested in it. For those not interested, they already forgot there was such a promise once upon a time.
The market decides depreciation, it's what people will pay for the vehicle. Kelly Blue Book tracks sales and tries to give an indication of what people will be willing to buy/sell cars for, but they don't exactly set the prices.
KBB is an industry org that just tracks sales data aggregated from dealers. It just tells you what other cars similar to yours have been recently selling for.
For tech, you are buying on what the product/service can provide you when you purchased it. Not for the promises of what it can do tomorrow because sometimes that day never comes. Before you bought things knowing what it can and can't do ahead of time. Now things can just as easily broken or taken away from you in an instant with an update or software revision from the thing you paid for outright. I have no idea how this isn't blatant false advertising after promoting and selling "full autonomous driving" and not getting anything for several years without any legal ramifications.
Mattel got nailed for this around the Intellivision. But, that was forty odd years ago.
Surprised they didn't call it Cardware 3.0
It wasn't a feature in the pipeline. He never said you can buy and use it now. But eventually, itll be available
It is a feature you are getting BILLED for supposedly having already.
@@havtor007 it is a pretty fancy cruise control that can be used immediately.
If you're paying for a subscription to something that doesn't exist, your money is gonna be wasted somewhere else anyway.
@@Breakstuff5050 It is sold as Self driving not a cruise control.
And on your second part so you will give me 50 000usd for the time travel machine i will make?
I know i will make it, it is just a matter of time
Hardware 3.0 already processes 2000 frames per second and that's not even enough. Damn.
i think its only about 36fps
There is so much Gray area here because “normal” car companies as well as any other company has made promises and delivered to some capacity and gotten away with it. Fining Tesla or giving consequences would be opening the door to ask what about other companies. Insanity truly
Hardware 4 is not an object-capability system. I'm not sure what security model they are using, but I'm fairly confident it has no capabilities.
They did a free hardware 3 upgrade for those who had hardware 2, there's no reason they couldn't do it for hardware 4, the cost has got to be less than $1k per car with fsd, take rate was not too high, and Tesla removes fsd on all traded in cars, the amount of cars they will have to upgrade is very small, not "millions" as stated
How about this to compensate.
Those who paid for FSD would be entitled to have their car computers upgraded to the most recent model free of charge once the FSD functionality is released. Therefore, those paying for the functionality are able to use it, while those who dont pay dont need it anyway.
In past 2 years LLM parameter size shrinked 10X while increasing performance.
While they use bigger model now it doesn't mean they won't deliver smaller model with higher performance and on older hardware.
Isn't FSD only using 1 chip at a time even though HW3 has 2?
Do what VW was forced to do during Diesel Gate. Buy em back at full price bayyybeeeee
"we not even close yet"
Have you guys seen FSD videos?
Have you seen the levels of automation and Tesla is still many levels away from self driving?
I recommend searching for the Tesla FSD update on CZcams. There are many videos showcasing Tesla's self-driving capabilities
The ones that Tesla admitted to faking? Or the ones where the car runs over stand-in children, plows into emergency vehicles, or tries to run down a cyclist?
He's(Linus) referring to at least Level 4, when he says full self driving. Some would say you need to be level 5 to be truly self driving. Tesla is at best Level 2 right now. They have no permits for higher and haven't advised of upcoming requests to go higher, the last I checked.
That's the main issue, they over promised in their marketing. Self driving has a legal definition. So far, it appears Tesla isn't going to meet it. At least not without a whole new generation of hardware and accompanying software. They should have just used a different name and they'd be in a better position.
There are sorting robots in factories that will spot damaged products and remove them from the conveyor belt. They work really well but I still wouldnt trust the computer to run the entire company. There is a lot more to automated driving than a few trained scenarios. It needs to be capable of 99%+ on the spot safe calculations for all kinds of unimaginable scenarios. I mean they opted to move away from a lot of LiDAR sensors and stuff and stick to camera vision as an example. I am sure there must be some sort of clothing that exists now or future clothing that the cameras just dont pick up well from a distance that they havent tested before. Would you trust a car that may or may not automatically detect a person wearing certain clothing? Even when driving manually I still get into scenarios that I've never seen before and I get confused how to deal with the situation... Often times you solve those situations by gaining eye contact with other drivers/pedestrians and sort of agree on how all parties should move on from there. I doubt FSD is able to see a nod from a person in the car coming towards you and decide what to do next. And yes, sure... once everyone is using some sort of automated driving the cars can communicate through some sort of universal traffic protocol and decide how to deal with that but we aint there yet and not everyone wants to be driven by a computer. Some of us still want to control our own vehicles.
Linus: What is the chance that Tesla pays more (by buying back cars or upgrading software.hardware) or pays less on a chance that nothing happens or they pay a smallish fine.
And should you count the depreciation due to use, but not the expected increased resale value under the original promise that the feature would eventually be there fully functional? If something is promised to get better after you paid for it, it's essentially a promise it will become more valuable over time (at least in certain aspects)...
Tesla has to offer free Upgrades to HW5 for everyone who "pre bought" FSD with a HW3 vehicle
My thoughts on the Beta FSD -
1. Should have never been allowed on the road, if Tesla didn't accept full responsibility for casualties resulting from it.
2. If you are releasing a beta, then it should be free for the people testing it, as they are doing you a favor.
As a Tesla Owner, and a user of FSD, I would honestly even pay up to $5k to upgrade my car to HW5, however it doesn't even look like an upgrade is going to be an options, which is what really bums me out seeing as I bought into FSD knowing it was going to be in beta for awhile but eventually getting access to full level 5 autonomy :/
Kelly Blue Book is gunna be your most reliable source car value estimate.
The old model x and s and 3 , got free upgrades so fsd can work. So maybe they will do the same thing here.🤷♂️
Makes me think of the Sony and Helldivers PC release.
11:22 - I think that would be a great thing. Companies like Tesla, in which they failed to meet the promises (and we can even argue they intentionally lied), they should offer a full refund of the original price of the car, corrected by inflation. That way, the customer doesn't suffer and you're also punishing the company for their bad behavior. This is basically how our law in Brazil works - all refunds are calculated based on the price paid, and if you do need to adjust the price due to market fluctuations, it's always done in favor of the customer, not the company.