The Best Oil Filter - Testing Paper vs Fibreglass vs Steel
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- Anything smaller than 10 microns can swim between piston and cylinder, grinding away at your engine. It's worth sweating the small fish. But which oil filter is best at catching them?
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RyanF9: “Like Germany motorcycles like to get dirty oil rather than no oil at all”
This man never seizes to impress me with the type of content he puts out.
It's a reference to Russia. Germany still likes its national socialism ideology.
@@theenzoferrari458 wtf are you talking about?
@@feuerreiteroderso8655 Germany prefers to finance russia(exactly knowing for what all the money are going for) instead of looking for alternative oil dealer. That's why I'm still in danger because of missiles hitting my city.
ikr!
@@igorsuzdalev Germany was not if favor of a oil embargo at the start, but after negotiating other contracts with other countries they are
Going to have to pass this one around. I feel vindicated from everyone who has mocked me for just using cheap paper filters for all these years... :)
haha yea!
but yet they'll still mock you for spelling it as cheep.
@@kbishop94 As they should. Lol
Derek Hermann ha! it’s all good Derek! 😂
I've had people mock me for actively choosing to use paper air filters instead of oiled foam, they actually think that foam is better at filtering air simply because its more expensive.
As someone who works in a lab that does filter R&D (the lab does - I work on lead acid battery R&D on the other end of the building).... I applaud the work this took, your DIY hydraulic tester, and commitment to testing these proper and not just going with anecdotal evidence
What filters do you prefer?
Agreed. As someone who works in an automotive company, I've seen lesser rigorous testing for far more professional requirements.
@@linkinlinkinlinkin654 True. As a professional oil filter myself, I can confirm the test is accurate.
@@vsm351 lmao
"But it's an aprilia so there's a steady stream of metal shavings too" 😂
As someone who does this type of testing every day, nice work! My company uses fiberglass for our filters on industrial engines, but we expect the filters to last for thousands of hours before servicing. Paper is indeed the best choice for automotive use as there's no better media for the price.
Some engines can take a larger filter than standard, a win-win-win for not much price increase, in same cases you can buy the same brands big filter for less as they are more sold by car then filter number.
you lost me with the "for the price" part.
I'm curious why the decision is to go with that rather than changing a filter once a month. A month is ~730 hours, does paper really degrade that fast?
(Well, looking up average vehicle speed and comparing it to my motorcycle's service internal, apparently they last ~400 hours. For my car, ~1,060 hours. Interesting.)
@@guard13007 Probably simple cost-benefit analysis, as replacing filters might take lets say ~2-5 hours (gotta shut down machine, replace & test new filter) If the product/machine isn't affected by slightly dirty oil then simply increasing the interval is an easy method of decreasing short term maintenance costs, as most companies won't run the same machine's for their entire feasible lifespan anyways; It's the next owners issue.
@@wobblysauce I used to run FL1A equivalent filters on my Sportster. They held more oil, were cheaper than motorcycle specific filters and had the same spring bypass pressure. Another benefit was their size made them easy to remove by hand. I needed a total of one tool to change the oil on that bike-a stubby flathead screwdriver.
As a mechanical engineer and someone who has worked at labs for majority of my career developing testing methodologies. This was absolute beautiful to watch. Ryan and F9 folks did it again.
Edit: Ok - so there are a bunch of comments about how this test is clearly not accurate. Well, no. But it is still damn near close. This is the type of testing and engineering forefathers did prior to SOPs and Published standards. There is nothing wrong with doing it. And like ANY science. IF you have a different opinion, YOU TOO can make a video and challenge it.
your opinion on the temperature of the oil thus changed viscosity thus different filtering results? or not ? they did heat oil somewhat but not even near the temps oil gets inside the engine i think.
I'm also a mechanical engineer and I'm becoming more and more skeptical of their approach to science(or rather applied as engineering) as time passes.
I'm a bit let down that the effective surface area, thickness and contaminant capacity have not been added in the comparison, or accounted for by factoring the measurement outcomes
Ryan and the F9 team, bro it's just Ryan and the camera guy.
better filters have more paper media than others, true for cars, probably true for MCs too.
4:02 "..but it's an Aprilia, so there is a steady stream of metal shavings.."
🤣
Well that or it has no oil 🤣. Ask me how i know...
As someone below, I am a mechanical engineer with a specialization in internal combustion engines. This is an excellent review which proves once again: a) cheaper doesn’t mean necessarily worse b) we should trust manufacturer recommendations for both spares and maintenance intervals as these are the best for regular users
A more dense, higher efficiency filter will naturally show more resistance to oil flow, thus higher pressure. The ICP test of the wear metals is not reliable in this test scenario. 1st the test will not see particulates above 10 microns, full flow filters are not efficient at these smaller sizes, the filters are designed to flow oil and stop the largest particulates in 30 micron range. Lastly, the small difference wear particles does not take into account repeatability and normal margins of error. A better test is Particle Count using patch membrane. It's an ISO test used to determine the cleanliness of oil and performance of a filter. It separates particles in the oil by size and quantity in the thousands for smallest to less than 100 in the largest. Blackstone can do this test, as well as other labs. A better test is to put the 30 micron aluminum powder in clean oil, filter the same oil mixture through each filter, plus a control oil sample, then do the metal test and particle count.
You've really outdone yourselves this time, outstanding video. Much love ❤️
The "DOUCHE" test. A new engineering standard! The dig against Germany importing Russian oil was very witty for sure. Love the content.
What's wrong with Russian oil, thanks to Biden it's not like we're exporting any...
Germany and Russia completed a pipeline. Germany was about to access affordable fuel before the US sabotaged the deal by using NATO to force Russia into invading Ukraine. Now Europe is screwed and the ruble is gaining value. Anyone bashing Germany for buying Russian oil is an ignorant fool. Germany is screwing themselves for playing along with these idiotic western sanctions.
"... But it's an Aprilia so there's a steady stream of metal shavings too". HaHaHA! Been watching for years. Keep us laughing and educated Ryan.
Great video as always although as an Aprilia owner, I was deeply hurt 😀
@@Pikestnt There I was thinking my Rotax would be everlasting compared to the Ducati I couldn't afford anyway...
I died laughing when he mentioned Aprilia. I was going to try to buy a Taureg 660cc enduro until learning that Aprilia sends engines out that randomly explode.
@@Ritalie I had just watched Revzilla's daily rider review of the Tuareg 660. Looked interesting compared to the Tenere 700.
I laughed while eating my pasta.
Always a good idea to have a magnet somewhere in the system. I've been told by an oil tech that full flow filters only remove particles down to 20 microns. Any finer filtration would start to remove additives. BUT ferrous particles down to 2-5 microns will damage bearings and such particles work harden each time they circulate. Remove them ASAP with a magnetic sump plug or magnet stuck to the spin on filter. Obviously especially if one rides an Aprillia ;)
I thought this was the key takeaway - these filters aren't great at catching the bad stuff at all. As an Aprilia owner my magnetic sump plug brings me joy and despair in slightly unequal doses...
As a Royal Enfield owner I feel your pain brother 😉
I think KTM thought fuc fixing engine issues and lets just put on lc4 engine 2 paper filters , 2 metal "filters" for large pieces and 1 magnet sump plug. As a result the bastard can eat the dying rocker bearing and still run perfectly fine after you swap it with a new sacrifice. Ask me how I know...
@@nitacawo How d'ya know?
@@nitacawo Well?
I don't own a motorcycle and I probably never will, but I am so glad I found this channel. Ryan's got jokes and answers all kinds of questions I didn't even know I had about the moto world.
Please compare some “performance” paper oil filters (k&n) vs oem, vs cheap. Would be great to see if there is any difference
There can be a big difference in the amount of actual paper in the filters between brands, which should affect flow and capacity.
I second* this suggestion
Check out Project Farm for an automotve oil filter brand comparison. Spoiler Alert the KN lets more oil through and traps less particulate. Just like their air filters.
In the consumer market, the filter with the best capture efficiency that I have found are Purolator Boss filters. They typically are rated at or near 15 microns at a capture rate of 98.7% at that size. Most filters are still between 25 to 40 microns with the same efficiency.
Would be great...but could also possibly be a lawsuit (then again, I don't know)
By far THE BEST motorcycle channel on all of CZcams. Incredibly informative, funny, well paced, interesting, high production quality videos every goddamn time. Keep up the amazing work, Ryan and F9 crew!
Agree! Simply genius
Absolutely, hands down. There are some gems out there; you just. Red to look. Here's another great one from Europe m.czcams.com/video/NWmgJzluIhs/video.html
I don't drive a motorcycle or otherwise feel like much of a part of its culture, but I'd dare to go even further: between the quality of the writing, the production and the subjects I struggle to find much of anything as well made as F9. I'm always left in disbelief, awe and joy. And those bike reviews.. There aren't many of them, but they're all utter works of art. To me it's one of the hidden gems on CZcams for anyone who isn't interested in motorcycles.
The beauty of Stainless filters is that the flowrate is constant throughout the service interval - Paper and possibly fibreglass will deteriorate over the 5 - 10 thousand klms - there's a good reason we use Stainless in the world of offshore oil and gas - all my motorcycles run on Stainless for the past 20+ years
With the paper filters, I would like to see you do the same test using genuine against aftermarket. That would give a comparison on price point viability, for me anyhow. Having worked in the trade for 30 something years there was always a doubt in my mind that aftermarket were as good as genuine.
Keep the vids coming I really look forward to them. Cheers.
What's the answer? I've always used Suzuki branded filters since the price difference isn't that great. But I've wondered about that.
I had a Suzuki filter fail on my SV650 K5 after a couple of years. The bike didn't get ridden or washed often and water can pool in the shed. Sometimes it left a lot of condensation on the bike like a beer glass.
The filter had a bit of rust from grass type stuff sticking to it from the road, then sprung a pinhole leak idling in the garden.
I switched to a Hiflofiltro 'racing' type with a thicker case. The nut on the end is for removal only. I'll also replace it with every oil change, instead of following the schedule of every two oil changes.
I didn't mind originally as it saved money and a website had extensive testing which found the more miles on filter the better it flows.
Genuine or aftermarket?, the truth is they probably all come from the same couple of factories in Asia. Don't sweat it.
the problem is that SOMETIMES.. the "Branded" is just an Aftermarket with a name.. (and higher $$)
@@DragonM109R Is it sometimes or most times? There can't be that many oil filter manufacturer's. What do you run on the 109?
5:59 "like Germany motorcycles prefer dirty oil than no oil at all", lol that joke is spot on
The "tainted with... war crimes..." was my fave - not sure Germany should get all the blame for Russian gun-money...
Dialysis of
Oil
Under
Constant
Hydraulic
Exertion.
Well played!😂
That was some premium review and bonus humor ! Thank you Ryan and team !
I love these kinds of tests! Thank you Ryan for learning me.
I'm curious if results would change significantly at higher oil Temps experienced while an engine is under load.
wondering the same. lots change when oil temp goes up
The test rig looks like it's intended to heat the oil up with the coils that run around what I think are heating lamps. I don't know to which temperature they heat the oil, but it indicates to me that ryan and his team didn't forget this factor.
@@dariolinder4508 time stamp 4:30 for reference.
I thought that too I don’t think the filter cares what temp the oil is. It’s not a test on oil itself, which temp would come into play.
Or, if they did 10 filters of each, to prove consistent results..
this channel prides itself on its perfect pristine presentation - even the awkward jokes are planned to perfection
but this little experiment setup is just so satisfying to watch id love to see it being built and designed!
We're thinking about making a podcast for shits and giggles - if we do we'll chat about building the DOUCHE! ~RF9
@@FortNine that would be amazing 🙏 coming from someone who used to listen to ever Car Talk Radio produced!
@@FortNine Please do both. An F9 podcast would be amazing.
@@FortNine PLEASE do make a podcast! That would be amazing. It would be extremely popular.
@@FortNine yesssss please
One of the most useful videos you've done. Keep up the good work.
Loving the weekly uploads, every winter I go through and watch just about all your videos
One of the most appealing aspects of your videos is the completely transparent honesty. You’re never trying to sell any product in particular, but instead present the facts, backed by research and experimentation. With the mess our country is in politically I think,perhaps, you should be running for top spot. Every presenter should strive to be this clear and concise.
He did stumble quite a bit with the whole Royal Enfield/ Pirelli video though. He implied Pirelli supplied Enfield with inferior tyres and as "proof" showed the tread depth between Enfield's front tyre (3mm) and an off the shelf Pirelli rear (5mm). Stuart Fillingham did a whole video on it with Pirelli's official statement on it. Do check it out
You realize he lives in Canada?
@@darrellhay as do I
@@revhappymv What idiot gave him that idea? Ryan's video shows that both tires measured were front tires.
@@Majyxs go and watch the video I mentioned. I didn't want to believe at first either as I've been watching and loving f9 for so long. He doesn't even mention the channel. Just says a big motorcycle youtuber. He presents all the facts along with the statements from Pirelli.
This channel can make a water bucket look amazing, great content!
I would watch "which water bucket can be best used to wash a motorcycle"
@@DougBurgum4VP oh yes 😂 makes the soap foam the best
Getting bad Stanley Parable vibes here...
@@DougBurgum4VP Just don't use the fiberglass bucket.
Paper filter media is good, but cardboard construction elsewhere in the filter? No.
Don't use Fram for anything. They are junk. Watch videos on a Fram teardown, if you don't believe me.
Excellent tests, easy to understand and the humour is just great. Merci Ryan!
Best video in a while. Loved it! Great job
Perfect cinematography
Perfect writing
Perfect presenting
Perfect humor
Perfect choice of content
Perfect consistency
"oil filters get tainted with steel shavings, clutch gore, gasket gue, warcrimes"
Ahhh yes, wait what?😂
What a great video, Ryan! You guys are simply the best! Keep it up...awww, looking forward to the next one!
Unbelievable content! Thanks for another great video Ryan and crew!
This is why we love FortNine: the best combination of physics & research with a slick and natural presentation.
Magnificent instrumentation (this fine D.O.U.C.H.E - somehow without B.A.G - machine!) and epic script. Ryan & Team for the win!
I had to pause it there and read the label a couple of times! I guess the B.A.G. apparatus would have been a little too on the nose.
Best tongue in cheek video prop for 2022...it's no contest and we haven't even gotten half way through the year.
Consistently releasing the vids I didn't know I needed. Thanks F9!
This is one of the best tests of oil filters I've ever seen. Thanks!
Love these type of videos. Ryan is truely the myth busters for motorcycles.
He is also the Jeremy Clarkson of motorcycles.
@@emiledaudet5255 Do not insult Ryan like that.
@@devilselbow much better. James May is a goddamn saint.
„Like Germany, motor bikes prefer dirty oil rather than no oil at all“ - so true, literally 😁😁😁👍
I'm so ashamed i moved to this country were 1/3rd of the fueltank funds a warring dictator
Came here to say that.
Another fantastic video thank you Ryan and crew
Finally a conclusive video! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Its a good day if there is a new video from FortNine.
These tests are my favorite Fortnine videos. Great work, y'all.
Easily some of the best content on my feed every time you guys upload, thank you a hundred times over
FINALLY!!!!!!!! Someone figured out how to test these. For years I've been trying to figure out which way is the best and plenty of youtube channels have BS opinions where they cut apart the filter and judge it on it's "build quality". No one has ever posted a video with real world tests like this. Everyone always talks smack on Fram filters, but after seeing this, not really a reason to talk smack on them. Been using them for 10+ years and will keep using them. Anything overbuilt is just a waste of money! Thanks FortNine!!!
there are plenty of quality paper filters out there, the Wix / Napa Gold family for instance.
.
you want to use garbage like Fram, keep on with your bad self. i'ma leave the glue for the 5 year olds to eat.
@@odnamsrazor2364Until someone actually tests them, there's no reason to think they don't function well. Your comment is a bit of a head scratcher as it contains neither test data or any real quality claims. You're free to piss your money away as you see fit.
This was great, you should do a similar test between different types of air filters
That's not what this channel is about.
Ask Project Farm to do it.
I'm willing to bet the results would not be too different. Yes, viscosity is different between air and oil, but the principles are the same.
@@68404 Project Farm just isn't as funny. Perhaps a collaboration is in order?
@@68404 PF has already done one. It's alarming how poorly the most expensive K&N filters do and surprising how affective the cheap ordinary ones are.
@@buzzman3200 I sorta expected that, but it was rather an amazing test.
Love the scientific approach to your videos Ryan! Awesome channel!
Ryan, your work is consistently superlative. Thank you.
I'm glad you've started pumping out content again. Good stuff!
Thank you.
I really enjoy every vid you make . A USA scientist who also rides, tested bike-oils and declared most of them as 'snake-oil' . He showed most m/cycle-oil is dead after a little-over a thousand miles, mainly through heat and possibly shear-factor in shared-gearbox's . Mobil-1 was one of a few that held-up longer . He advised running reasonable quality, cheaper-oil and changing it frequently . Also some paper-filters DO claim faster flow-rates than others, this might be a cool-test to do . Years ago , I had access to free oil for a few years and ran a straight-six petrol-engine, changing it every month-ish .That oil looked brand-new after a while of doing this, once the motor had cleaned-up from repeated-changes . I drove that car hard and the oil only looked 'newer' every change . Something to think about . 51-bikes over 67yrs Dave NZ
Top notch as always. It's like Christmas every time a F9 video drops. 😍
Thank you. I have been looking for this comparison for months!
Hey Ryan and F9 team! Amazing videos as always. Thanks for educating me about bikes all those years ago. It's been a slippery slope and now I've got 4! It's been quite the ride so far, thank you for making it all that much better!
Never leave these videos with anything but amazement. You guys are just incredible. Solid methodology and good humor to boot. A simple subject, but legitimate answers and the proof to back it up. No fluff. Pure content. Love it!
Thanks for doing the testing, absolutely brilliant episode
Another great video Ryan. You never cease to amaze me how you manage to inform and entertain in equal proportions.
Outstanding testing, thanks for being so transparent. I'm happy your tests support what I've done for 50 odd years, paper filters!
The amount of effort you guys put into these videos is amazing!
Amazing as ever...this is top notch content. Hats down gentleman.
Excellent information once again. It's really impressive how much work you put into testing things and then explain and inform unbiased. Thank you very much.
Ryan you truly are the guru of all things motorbike! Another excellent clip, thanks dude.
Been watching this channel since I started riding like 4 years ago, content has always been quality. I usually just buy K&N filters for my Triumph, glad to hear it’s one area where cheaping out is the right choice
Above and beyond. Brilliant as always.
Best bike chanel info on youtube, Just keeps getting better!!!!!! - Cheers from Australia!
I absolutely LOVE your tests. So scientific and well put together !
Thanks again for your amazing vids :D
That was not scientific at all but nice to watch. I work in a company, which produces the paper for all kind of automotive filtration and we do the testing on a sophisticated test rig. The result of the rough and dirty test, however, is not too far away from reality.
Another great video. One of my favourite channels, anywhere, ever. Any chance you could do a follow up vid with a range of different paper filters from different manufacturers? I feel like the D.O.U.C.H.E. has more to offer.
These are the best videos. Love to see the science in action.
I love the production quality of these videos. Absolutely love it
That testing rig is so sick! Well done team!
its horseshit. oil galleries are nowhere close to the size of hoses.
Ryan, you’re probably the most persuasive and entertaining youtuber i’ve ever watched. You literally brought me from not knowing or caring about motorcycles to completely obsessed in under a month and i’ll be getting my first bike from a relative in about a month. It’s a 1980 honda cm400t. Thank you for showing me this awesome new hobby!
He's back! So happy to see frequent posts again.
Not what I expected. Great content!
The content on this channel is getting better and better. So well written and delivered.
Well done Ryan and Team!
I just hit break-in on my first modern bike (still have my '84 GPz 750) but had a choice on filter material for the first time. Feeling pretty good about going with the OEM paper filter.
Incredible production, best channel on CZcams regarding real motorcycling topics and no bs... Keep this one format going on
Thanks ✌🏻
Awesome video guys, keep them coming!
For years I've been running Drag Specialties Chrome magnetic paper oil filter with great sucess in my Harley's, the oldest being a 95 Softail with over 73,000 miles. I've done autopsy's on several of these used filter and was impressed with their construction.
love how for a company i used to know almost nothing about before thinking about learning to ride a bike - im now just unsurprised at just how consistently funny and captivating (and having a tub just of metal shavings) it is
My favourite Canadian motorcyclist to watch on YT, keep up the seriously great work!
I just changed the oil and filter last night on my FZ07 before I saw this. I'm glad the good ole K&N paper filter performs victorious in the majority of tests. Watching these tests was intriguing. Awesome video!
"but like Germany, motorcycles prefer to get dirty oil than no oil at all" - that was smooth! Love your videos, Ryan! Cheers from Ukraine (:
Great video and content-rich as always. Love the test rig. I wish I had this information 10 years ago. I learned this the hard way on a High Performance (and price) filter that cost me an engine. I have only used the OEM paper filter ever since the engine loss.
Was that an oil filter or an air filter that cost the engine?
Oil filter.
Def a fav video (in recent memory) from a vast catalog to enjoy
You are still the best on CZcams! Keep riding love your work
Well for me that proves my train of thought on oil filters. With warranty’s on new bikes and oil change intervals increasing I always figured that if manufacturers were still using paper based oil filters it’s because they deliver the best result.
Warranties.
Yeah...but ignore those long change intervals eh?
This is a masterpiece, Just like every video on this channel. Y'all are doing an insane job
THIS is why I love this channel. Please keep doing your thing.
Another great video...thanks Ryan and F9🍻
Awesome to see a still unbias testing. Not touting that the most expensive thing is the best because more money. Your just here to give us actual results on what's best for our bikes. Thank you Ryan
He was right about ear plugs too!
Had a guy on /o/ say F9 was a shill. I really don't see it. I told him to watch the tire plug video.
Ryan is selling transparency.. his word is his product.
We used to split filters before discarding them. It taught me a lot about what's inside, comparing OE to cheap replacements. They were all paper, but the aftermarket filters used way less folds: i.e. way less filtration surface.
I only buy OE or from an OE equipment manufacturer.
My favorite part of riding season is it means new videos from FortNine come out way more! I freaking love his videos they have the best armchair mechanic vids!
Just SUCH amazing content!!!!
Superbly well written with great jokes sprinkled throughout AND a well designed & thought out rig for testing to gift us with some very useful knowledge!
This is one of those of hidden gem channels that's just beautiful to watch. Doesn't matter if you're interested in the subject at all. It's just too good compared to any other effort I've seen in the review industry. The very useful and detailed information delivered in an approachable manner is just bonus. Thank you for being great!
My god I was wondering why I loved this channel so much, Ryan is basically bill Nye for motorcycles the way he demonstrates everything. I love it.
I'd listen to Prof. Proton over nye the NOT the science guy any day...
"Ryan is basically bill Nye for motorcycles" why are you insulting Ryan?
@@TheEvolvingAudioNut Exactly... it's an insult!
Another awesome video, great test setup
Amazing production and very enlightening. Great job all around.
Ah, been too long since RF9 did a good ole fashioned lab test. I’m digging it
Looking forward to top notch production quality and high tier content as always!
and still 8 people disliked it for some reason
@@MrMiyagi005 wait.... how can u see the dislike count? Are you from the past?
@@1998lemuel there are ways, Google it
The best oil filtration presentation to date!
Man I love your sense of humor! This episode was great for its content, and the witty jokes.
This man is an entertaining genius..