The Ultimate DH eBike?
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Today Neil Donoghue is at Dyfi Bike Park answering the question "Battery in or battery out?". We all know that eBikes are a great way of getting to the top of the hill, but when you're at a bike park with an uplift a motor isn't needed. So Neil wanted to find out what's better for downhill, an eBike with the battery in or with it out. We've modified his Canyon Torque:ON with some downhill upgrades to see which is faster, or feels nicer!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:00 - Welcome Back To Another EMBN Video!
0:32 - The Ultimate Downhill eBike Check
3:05 - Riding The eBike Downhill With The Battery In
5:00 - Let's Do That Again Without The Battery
8:18 - Neils Thoughts On The Weight Difference
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Have you ever ridden your eBike without a battery in? Let us know what you thought of it! 👇
Hi nice video! Bitte I think it's not covered by the guarantee to use a triple crown fork... Could you please say if it is?
A friend of mine has the 27,5 torque:on and I asked them if I could change it to mullet... They just replied to me, that I just should get the MX version, because they wouldn't support changes on the product that was bought, and that's the reason why they had both..
And triple crown is a much bigger change than only changing the front tire...
And some motors don't want to be ridden without battery, something to do with electronic...
So, it's this covered?
the first lapierre e-zesty with fazua motor was usable without battery and was a pretty normal allmountain-enduro bike, it is a great bike like it is.
you were expexted to use it without motot. there should be more bikes like the lapierre e-zesty.
If there was a de coupler for the motor while doing this to negate the resistance it would be pretty spot on
My 2022 Specialized turbo Kenevo Expert is better than that...😎🤘
how did you closed the lid since it locks into the battery?
Belt driven electric Pinion Gearboxes are the future for E-bikes. And everyone should get on board with that. It’s just going to eliminate a crap load of aftermarket BS.
Absolutely this.
Oh yes! Motor mounts HAVE to be standardised! The current situation is unbearable! No updates possible whatsoever! And I really do like the thought, the possibility of taking out the motor and "clamping" a BB adapter in for certain use! That's a brilliant idea! 🎉😮😅
Bafang has done this years ago.
@@tonym6633 with which other motor bafang is compatible?
@@dude770725 just like Motorcycle Markets, no engine gonna be interchangeable.
If you have a look on the Light EMX Market, Aka Surron LightBees (55kg to 65kg), the trend is we gonna have motors and controllers, wheelhubs, forks and Etc Interchangeable .
It's lovely to see how this Industry/Market Evolve, its way Healthier than the MTB/EMTB Market.
And despite both EMTB and Surrons don't need a shuttle, Surrons Bash the Trails on the way up.
Bike industry is worse at standards than mobile phones before USB.
100% wish there was a standard battery and motor mounts for future proofing
Me too - but I don't think it will happen
What the guys at Orbea did is actually a pretty good idea because once the batteries are GONE getting new batteries is not worth it and being able to turn your EMTB into a Regular MTB is a nice option , just imagine all the storage that you can have if you take out the batteries
I do think the future of EMTBs are standardized motors dimensions more like to be any motor brand fits any frame. That's when things will change. I have been reluctant in buying an expensive EMTB just because of the constant evolution of the motors and the real problem of that specific frame can only have that specific motor.
Won’t happen. I had that fear too but motors are actually more common than you think.
I can still get parts for my 2017 with a shimano system.
Gearbox bikes went standard, Effigear makes the mimic now and pinions 6 bolt system is the pseudo standard. Though in this case pinion became the market leader and made their 6bolt system available for everyone. The problem may be that Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha may have their parents on the mounting system which is preventing standardization. Additionally, there is no clear market leader and therefore no incentive for any brand to create a standard. Yet.
Same with UDH, I think once frame makers want a standard system to tweak bikes for their customer bases and the riders also want flexibility, one brand is going to fold and shoot for a standard bolting pattern.
Additionally the first one to fold also could lose out on potential motor replacement or upgrade sales if customers are given the ability to easily switch brands. Much like the printer issue where all printers use different cartridges, it means more money for the OEM.
@@FunctionFIVE Thanks for the great inputs. I do agree that this is no easy solution...these bikes are actually becoming more like motor bikes and them motors are integrated part of the frame construction and design.
100%👍🏻 Pole have gone bankrupt so if I something breaks I’m screwed, I’d have to get another bike with the Bosch system so I would be able to use the batteries I have and potentially have a spare motor!
@@RobHill00 yeah that's no good!
When Canyon dropped the price 1800 I bought this bike immediately and while I’m not the rider you are I’m having a ton of fun!😀
That's all that matter, and you got yourself a proper bargain!
Great clip, awesome ride Neil!!
Hard to beat top specs, downhill fork + coil shock, all coupled with a 900wattH juice!!
Yep Downhill ebikes, my Kenevo comp now has Fox 40s, mullet set up, Carbon rear wheel now the bike handles like it should.
I thought about doing a 40 on my kenevo expert, but was concerned about changing up the geo with an extra 23mm of travel. How does it do in the corners? I worry the front tire won't be weighted enough and the bike will wash out easier
I would definitely buy the Orbea Wild if it was 200/200 like Martin Maes race bike, but with the Bosch race motor.
Long travel ebikes are the future!
"Absolutely!" If there was an option to fit normal cranks on my Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 that would be amazing as it just doesn't pedal well fighting against the motor. Great idea 👍👍👍
I have a 2022 turbo Levo comp , I rode dirt farm late last yr without a battery, and had an absolutely a fun experience and wouldn’t hesitate to do it again 👍👍
I live in México ,and i could probably buy a house for the same price as that bike
Hard to ride a house though....
I have ridden the tourqe on cf8 since last year.
This is an excellent bike but it rides low, i bought 155mm cranks and its much better.
I'm 6'1 and they feel great.
It is much better at technical climbing now.
Shorter cranks are the way to go for sure!
@@embn What cranks are those Neil?
5dev cranks
Love my kenevo with fox40's. Never tried without a battery as most uplift parks still have a bit of uphill pedalling or transversing and im not pedalling uphill these days.
That colour scheme looks incredible! Is it meant to look like granite? I like it! 🤙🏽
5.86kg for 900Wh is insanely heavy... Got a semi solid state battery with 1400Wh enclosed in a stainless steel housing for external mounting weighing just 6.5kg, that is including mounting brackets!
Yes indeedy! Prolly needs a dedicated battery out bash plate/cover/whatever, but the idea of the weight reduction seems actually logical.
I was thinking of this last month
A true animal of a rider! Wow
I have a Obrea wild fs m20 xl 2021 with Manitou dorado pro forks set at 200mm with a Crane creek coil shock ,Cascade link & mullet set-up 🚀🚀 Had it like this for 1 1/2 years,all these mods have madethe bike much better..👍👍
Very nice! Rich loved the Dorado up front on that Strive:ON!
Totally agree, I am a competent rider and want to enter the local enduro series just for fun but can’t enter as an e bike and just be ranked separately but if I could put a shell of my FAZUA motor that holds a BB I would
I'm currently waiting for my first eMTB (Canyon Strive:On) to deliver and I was wondering what the bike would feel like without the battery. I'm definitely going to have to try this. Although my battery is significantly smaller and lighter so I'm sure the difference won't be as pronounced.
4 fox hake. After the faff with disk brake and chain guides getting standard mounts!
Surely motors would sell more units if you could buy new ones and bolt them straight in.
Entry level bikes could be much cheaper too.
one of the reasons i brought ezesty plus battery blanking , can remove the small battery and motor and ride as normal bike .
I was planning on making one for when my shimano motor failed and have it to where I could run any conversion ebike kit in the same chassis like the tongshen or cyc motors that use 68/73mm bb or even just use it as traditional bike when at a place that doesnt allow ebikes. Sold that bike though and just plan to convert to traditional ebike and convert it with cyc motor
On a dh track that’s a great idea.
Only once have I run out of battery life on my Mondraker Crafty and man it was a hard slog back home pedaling through the motor
I take out the battery on my YT Decoy MX and replace it with a custom plate. Works well in many DH situations. Not well if peddling to generate speed for jumps is required.
pedaling vs peddling
I do that all the time with my Transition Relay PNW.
I have been wanting to try this for a while now on my spesh kenevo (at parks with a shuttle or chairlift). Love the bikes geo but have always wondered how much better it would be without the 700w battery. Good watch Neil
I actually took the battery out of my mondraker crafty and rode it and tbh I hated it, the suspension felt wrong (even after setting it up to be lighter) and it had no momentum to it, plus the stability in the air was all gone and it felt too twitchy
I would love if I could easy and quickly convert my Canyon ON to an analog bike for den 1-2 times a year i viset a Bikepark in Germany or Austria.
I btw have no clue how you got the button panel to stay on the bike after you removed the battery....
Nice 🤩 Also considering to get an Torque:On. If there would only be a cover for the ugly bottle holder 🤭
I’ve got one. Just put some car wrap or contact over it. Problem solved.
Standard BB mounted via motor mounts is a very good idea. Perhaps you can't afford a new battery for example. Or your motor dies. This means your very expensive bike can still be used. Excellent idea, someone make it please.
We have been doing this with Pole Sonni all winter. 200/200 DH chassis Ebike. It works well with an Ebike for DH.
The Sonni was the bike that convinced me to finally buy an E-Bike, but now that the company went down there is no other option I could buy!!! It is ridiculous that not a single brand makes a DH E-Bike, being the only kind that makes sense for me, an auto-shuttle bike.
It’s not over just yet…..
@@mvm006haibike Nduro 8
Yeah… motor mounts need to be standardized… then I could put a pinion motor on if I wanted or shimano. They should be like the rest of the parts on the bike I can pick and choose.
Very nice SRAM brakes are they worth the money? And what's the difference between the cheaper ones
@EMBN
Saw the Orbea walk around and weren’t allowed to show the BB area on the bike
Yes Orbea BIG TIME MISSING A TRICK
AS for your bike; how much to buy and how much did the upgraded forks and bigger breakers cost
I’d happily take out a bank loan for that bike
The colour scheme and bike is just awesome
Jonathan
circuit breakers? or brakes.
There should be a blank or cover to slide in the battery slot to block it off.
I have Fox 40’s on my Pole, I’ve switched between the Zeb and 40’s but now I’m set on the 40’s👌🏻 turning circle isn’t great but I’m used to it now! Can’t really run it without the battery as the battery has a plate attached to it so all the crap would go into connector etc unless I blocked it up which would look terrible!😂 It rides better with the weight of the battery, smooths out the small chatter and it absolutely flies down the motor way at Dyfi just tuck in and hold for dear life!😂
I like my Voima too. Great bike. I am worried about the chain stays cracking, though. Should this happen, with the Pole now gone, that would be a disaster.
Velovision battery cover will fill the hole when the battery is removed.
Manufacturers may be able to save a ton of cash making the same frame for both assist and non assist bikes
Purchased a Trek Ebike for this battery comes out easy and for £12 they sell a neo preen Velcro battery cover I use this to stop damage and things getting in whet the battery was. . Brilliant did an uplift at Antur Stiniog brilliant
The size of the cassette at the back is massive! :D
Possibly not quite downhill optimised, but swapping out a cassette isn't the worst job in the world for a '1 bike for 2 jobs' set up
Great riding again. But save your money and buy an old dh bike for dyfi.
Standard motor mounts with an option to turn your ebike into a mountain bike would be awesome!
Not a bad idea at all!
Now we just need a 300mm version for hucking so we can ride back up 😂
What size crank arms do you have on that bike 🤔
I had the idea make a motor replacement mount to fit standard cranks/bottom bracket should my motor/battery die outside of warranty. I was laughed at. Turns out Orbea have done exactly that.
NEIL!! i have the exact same bike. Love it! but im having creaking noises from the headset and fork (zebb) did you have this same issue? did getting that boxxer help with that?
thank you!
I didn't have a creak with the Zeb, but the headset was surprisingly mucky after not that much usage so worth taking it apart and re-greasing probably
@@neildonoghueMTB Thank you for the reply, i already took it apart and re-greased. It still sounds so much... Im starting to think that just maybe the rear brake cable is causing the noise when it gets pulled by the rear triangle when the shock gets crompressed and also the headset fork front hub area.... Its really hard to understand. Do you think riding it with the boxxer made a big difference compared to how it rode with the zebb?
im considering the Inverted forks....
thanks Neil! you made your bike look great and what Coil spring have you instlled and which one you had from new? Is your biKE a M or a L?
my torque:on's just arrived (with 900wh battery) and was considering putting fox 40's on it. feel like the dual crowns are potentially a bit overkill for your average days out on the bike though? equally, could just make them super fun on the descents! assuming putting dual crown's on doesn't void any warranties?
Have a ride on it first, see how you get on with the standard fork 🤘 Best place to check regarding warranties is Canyon direct 👍
My invention thanks
the dnb in the intro is fire. u uk blokes that on lock
Wouldn't increasing the geometry of the boxer at the front harm the structure?
That would be Awesome if they made it so you could swap out the motor for a regular bottom end! There are reasons that would make good sense to be able to do that from a riders point of view.
Bike manufacturers might be looking into it after Orbea's appearance at Fort William. Although Orbea have said they aren't planning releasing it to the public 👎 But maybe other companies might pick it up 🤔
@@embn What Blake isn't already working on it😁
The back back caliper bracket has an arrow on the “40 P part” for a reason. It may work but are you sure it’s installed correctly?
Let me double check, I though the arrow was correct...
if you want to be consistent, you also remove the engine 😁
The bottom bracket is part of the motor sadly, so no motor means no pedals 🤷♂️
Don't take it to serious 😊
I heard that you couldn't ride the Torque On without a battery that somehow you cannot secure the connection. Probably that's what Neil mentions takes like 5 mins to remove 🤔🤷🏻♂️
Not sure, but I just took off the plastic side case with 3 small screws and then you can remove the battery lead completely so it doesn't flap around
What about your warranty and the forks? Didn't Richy say it voided his warranty in his canyon but he got permission to do it for the video, Was this the same? Just so the people know it's an expensive mistake! I want to do this to my new emtb but it's brand new and don't want to void my warranty
Also, at exactly 7:50 on that jump landing you see the chain hitting the ground....that's a ridiculous thing that the manufactures should put a fix on it....some are actually already trying though.
I'm waiting for this moment when I'll be able to remove the motor and put there an adaptor for regular cranks! And use battery space as storage for everything. I have tried to search it 3 years ago, and nothing has changed since then...
Orbea's Oolab seem to have done something along these lines with the Wild at Fort William. Looks like the future could potentially be now!
I ride my trek rail without the battery. Have a 3d printed cover and goes in and out with a key
Do you have belly protection on ?
Not for this video no. Sometimes Neil wears a Roost guard which is good chest/back protection, but he's pretty happy on these Dyfi tracks without! All comes down to your personal choice
Is that a new jersey? If so when is it releasing?
Check it out here: embn.me/PZ It's been out for a little while actually!
Time to order triple clamps for my torque on 🙌🏼
I have a Turbo Levo, and it is almost impossible to me to ride with the battery/motor off. So much that I'm thinking of taking it into the shop to see if it is actually supposed to be this way, or if there's a problem with mine. Anyone else have this issue?
No. I have a Kenevo Fattie and I can ride it without the motor on. Get it checked.
battery or not, that geometry must suck going uphill
But Martin Mais didn't even make the top 20 on his ebike in the downhill race. So is he not great or is the ebike not that great?
To be honest, even top 40 at a world cup race is pretty great!
Is it structurally safe ?
That's what I was wondering. I thought the battery maybe would play some part in the strength of the design.
@@davidmaskew they don't - you wouldn't want any forces going though the [plastic] battery casing - it's a passenger, not an integral part of the frame [strength].
The only issue you might have (as Neil pointed out) is an opening where damp and dirt could get in if you don't have a cover for where the battery would otherwise be exposed (depending on the model bike you have).
@@jmo2752 still void the warranty according to Canyon tho..maybe it has more to do with the inability to properly close the bottom than structural integrity
Why does no one make a 200mm+ ebike
I think it was Husquarna doing one. But it's the only one afaik
The haibike nduro 8 comes with dual crowns and the capability of overstroking the shock to 200ish mm stock
❤ I know how
I love my Torque. None e-bike version and I’ve been really considering getting an emtb and this without a doubt would be my first purchase but that water bottle cage thing they did on this is incredibly ugly in my opinion.
Non ebike vs none
Love the Boxxers on the Torque On. Very sexy
Are you thinking of putting dual crowns on your e-bike?
@embn I am. Been looking to see it done. Its rare, but so very tempting.
Some bikes should not be ridden without the battery because of the lack of stiffnes. The downtube itself is not strong enough on many bikes. The battery then is part of that frame and you could easily crack the frame without it.
But thats a hell of a ride and since my emtb just got stolen I'm considering that bike, too... Great contet mate, thx for that!
No ebike should use the battery as a structural element, if it does you need a different bike.
@@Cody_Istre Exactly, can you imagine the battery fire?
Im not buying another ebike until someone offers it in a "downhill" setup complete with big hitting 200mm downhill forks. The Kenevo...was...cool but it was the diet soda of downhill ebikes.
ebikes should came with a drone that carries your battery from the top
Ah comparison with a full on dh rig next 5ime.iam actually faster on my heavy 180 ebike thsn my v10 😮
Shocker - sponsored rider says his sponsors bike is great.
I watch but tbh I can't even afford an ebike neva mind a dh ebike lol
Thanks for watching! One day 🤘
Downhill E-Bike is the ONLY kind of E-Bike I would buy.
Except the battery is a structural member of the frame?
My ideal e-bike has no battery and no motor
Hmmm...
That is probably a lot of money to pay for a ebike and then take the battery out! Sorry just daft.
I concur, very daft
No
No to what? The DH eBike or the lack of battery?
I'm surprised that the manufacturer doesn't offer a sealed door, that was a lot of mud water and muck. I'm also surprised that the terrain, trees and foliage look alot like British Columbia 😁🇨🇦
The Atherton's (the owners of the park) have said they wanted to create something like whistler bike park for the UK!
@@embn makes perfect sense, whistler is an hour away from where i live. Great MTB place 👍
lol, I can buy 10 Light Bee?
or one Stark Varg?
Im letting you know: im not going to buy ebike.