The secret system behind attacks in Guilty Gear Strive
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- #lordknight #GuiltyGearStrive #GuiltyGear
A lot of you asked about attack levels, so I made a video about the secret system that determines how attacks works in GG (and ASW games in general).
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0:48
Slayer is smiling wherever he is right now.
Haha dandism
He's probably at home enjoying his pipe
Bumboclaat counter hit. Knew i was following the right chanel.
Oh thats what that actors name was thank you
It's so helpful to get into a game like GG for the first time when so many things are consistent in the games and so many vets can break shit down to you like this I was wracking my brain trying to figure out how *exactly* frame traps work coming from SF it's more cut n dry but this was such a good explanation I feel like it's vital to know as a Gio player
I needed this. Thank you.
Lord Sonic Sol. 🙏
i seriously learn so much from your videos the way you describe things and show examples makes things easy to understand
In the long far forgotten time of IB reducing blockstun, it also reduced the blockstun based on attack level
"Strive is too easy and babyfied, it removed all the complex stuff and it's not a real Guilty Gear anymore"
Still has a whole hidden system for attack levels, on top of proration, weight, individual guts and defence modifiers, RISC, three kinds of block, two universal defensive systems, unique meters for certain characters, and adds sliding Roman Cancels and canceling the Roman Cancel.
"Wait, all that stuff was in Xrd?"
All we really want is complicated characters like Venom
@@mrstrawhat9227 As a Raven main I apologize for nothing.
Well, attack levels have always been there, if I'm not mistaken, as well as the rest you mentioned, like proration, weight (even more important back then), guts and defence modifiers.
The only new thing is really the sliding RCs and maybe dash cancels.
What do you mean by canceling the RC?
@@MrXBOCAX you can apparently cancel the Roman cancel and put out a move instantly or move across the screen really fast. You are canceling it before the explosion
@@MrXBOCAX Most of the community at this point is calling it the "fast RC". It's on floor 4 of the tutrorials where you input right as you rc to attack before the shockwave.
Ohhh now I understand that a move is for example minus on block only if u don't gatling cancel it or cancel it to a special... that makes so much sense! Nice!
That is the kind of stuff why you get my twitch prime even though I can never watch you live due to time zones.
Bumboclaat counters lmao. 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
I never seen this explained so well, THANK YOU
Your content is always top shelf man. Thank you!!
Bumbaclart 👌 probably one of my favourite words.
Labbing frametraps and pressure would be so much easier if they gave Strive the same frame advantage/attack start-up display as Fighterz has
Anyone knows why Arcsys didn't include this for Strive?
my best guess is either Too complex for their intention of simplifying the general game (which doesn't make sense, there's a difference between transparency and complexity) or time frame/technical factors.
14megasxlr most likely the time one I really hope they add it in we NEED that fr fr
I think I heard it is because they think that if they put it on the game it is required to enjoy it. It would be better to have it but I don't really mind since I am a big fan of the "you are only minus if you're a bitch" mentality.
You don't need any of this. Just go into the training mode and check out what works and what doesn't. E.g. record the dummy to do an attack and try mashing Sol's 5k at certain points.
@@thesazbak5342 Yeah, you don't NEED frame data or other modern fighting game advances we've gotten over time , but the fact of the matter is we've had tools like these for years now. There is no downside to including things like frame data. It's a massive quality of life improvement to a game that helps players up their game much quicker. Literally all it does is take a bunch of guesswork out of labbing stuff and give you more time to actually play instead of being in training.
Like yeah, the arcade players of old had to figure shit out the hard way, but if we have the tools to make things simpler and more streamlined, why shouldn't we?
I don't NEED a modern phone, but (hypothetically) if I had the choice between having a land line and a modern cell phone, why wouldn't I take the cell phone? Makes life a lot more streamlined and simple.
i finally understand frame trap thank you
That dolphin makes me want some fucking tuna
Keep teaching attack levels like you won’t hear bankai 🗿
Pain right, Pain 👀
Very informative and made simple to understand, thx for the vid. Seeing the thumbs up ratio i feel like I am not the only one to think so xd
Thanks
Did he just hit I with tha boombaclaat counter? Me have to check da flim...
Imma be honest. I understand shit all from this vid.
Melee Shield system is similar to Guilty Block/FD system
Melee Shield/Guilty Block:
1. Less Blockstun
2. Less Pushback
Light Shield/Faultless Defense:
1. More Blockstun
2. More Pushback
EDIT: There more to that but thats the 2 key things to take from this
And power shield/just block
For stuff like Millia 6H that has two or more hits, how does the blockstun apply between the two hits?
Depends on the move, usually the second will deal the standard amount of blockstun, while the first will deal a customized amount. For instance, c.S for Millia has no gaps, and it's two hits, but 6H does have a gap, and it's also 2 hits.
@@emeraldmann1329 Makes sense, thanks. Hopefully this kind of stuff gets documented on the wiki eventually.
You have any tips for making tier list videos?
Sure.
1 - make a tier list
2 - make a video with the tier list in it
@@LordKnightfgc I did. I was wondering if I needed something more since I barely got any views?
Pro level info
Bumboclaat counter hit has to me made into a mod now.
Already has lol
Yup, I will never reach heaven, floor 8 is okay with me😂✌️
Wait, so the blcokstun isn't dependent on the move itself per se, but the attack value assigned to the attack? So what determines how -/+ it is on block? Attack level and 'recovery'?
Blockstun is directly assign "automatically" based on the normal button's attack level. Being + or - in a certain move has no connection to it's attack level and it is individually assigned per move per character.
Forgot to insert "I think", in the beginning, so take it with a grain of salt.
Maybe LK or someone else more knowledgeable would be able to confirm or deny my statement.
Goat
“I promise I won’t get political”
1 pint later:
Where can I find attack levels if they're not on Dustloop?
I think they're all there, are they not?
You need to go to the "Full Frame Data" tab to see them though, they're not on the Overview tab.
what is ky c.S attack level? its level 3? so its do 16 blockstun, -8 on block, which means i can start move 8 frames faster that opponent? but when i do move which are faster that 8 frames i still get interrupted by fast normals, or maybe only standing normals have attack levels?
You might have already worked this out but I'll tell you anyway just in case. -8 means your opponent goes first, not you. Effectively, you have 8 more frames to recover and make an input than they do, this means a fast attack like a 2p will beat you. Regardless I'm pretty sure Ky's c.S is +1 so provided you pick a fast move or a move you can cancel into, you should beat your opponent.
your comment appears to have been deleted but I'll respond anyway, frame data is still very important for cancels, effectively a cancel replaces the recovery of your attack with the start up of the move you are cancelling into, lets take a move leaves your opponent in blockstun for 16 frames, and the time it takes you to recover from that move is 18 frames (this is the remaining active frames (lets say 8 in this case) + end lag frames (we'll say this is 10)). This means your opponent is able to act 2 frames before you can, but if you instead cancel into a move with 6 frames of start up, your move will come out 2 frames before theirs, meaning they have no option but to continue blocking. Also no, not all moves can be cancelled into each other, most moves only have a few cancel options and others have none. I'd recommend checking dustloop for Ky's cancels if you ever decide to get back into the game.
Wtf I had a question
I’m new to guilty gear. So if there’s 2 frame gap between attacks using this block stun chart are throws good for interrupting of your opponent is taking too much from their moves?
If your opponent is doing a move that's close enough where you wouldn't whiff the throw and has a 2-3 frame gap with their string, then yes, but 4-7 frames, it's probably better to go with a jab punish combo unless you really want a side switch with your throw.
Most moves have push back, which pushes them out of throw range. There are some exceptional circumstances where it's possible. Usually it's only possible through an opponent's mistake.
Like if someone tries to jump in with a heavy. If their forward momentum caries them into throwing range, you can throw them when they land.
I think they might be able to counter throw or jump out, but if they are just mashing, they get thrown
Also in these situations throwing is a mixup for them as well, so you're right to try it if the moment's right. Either you get a tech or you get the grab yourself. But if they delay even more then they can get a big counter hit.
It's just which yomi level you decide to play on and which your opponent is playing on. Or missed/slow inputs on their part lol
@@uniquename6925 I got hit by this a couple times I thought jump ins were guaranteed blockstrings like in fighterz.
@@Eaode so it’s more like a soft read in that scenario
What's the outro music
bumbaclot
What mic do you use?
bro ive known what attack level is since before i ever played guilty gear and still if i wanted to do a frame trap i would look up the advantage on block, then add in recovery + any active frames after the first. feelin like a right knuckle dragger after this.
I like when that dude asked why there is addition frame advantage (for your opponent) when you FD. LK says it's a compromise because the pushback is very good (true) but I don't see why it needs to be a compromise since I'm the one spending meter... Seems redundant in most situations since they can just reclaim that distance by moving forward during the additional blockstun you get, making FD hyper situational and easy to screw yourself with if you aren't incredibly informed about each characters frame data.
I dunno, I'm not sure I like the FD mechanics in this game, even if it is useful sometimes.
Like every defensive mechanic, you have to use FD wisely for it to be the most effective.
FD is strong in this game, there are very few moves in this game that are straight up adv and let you see how the opponent is blocking.
Ngl i do not understand this at all LK is this determined to strings? Im conflicted on the On block Value that shows for each normal and special attack, how does that correspond to the attack levels? Confusion pls halp
The attack level is just a set amount of blockstun and hitstun that they apply to a move.
Example, basically everyone's 5H is attack level 4, but Gio has a 5H that is -5 and Millia's is like -12. However, since they are both attack level 4, they have the same amount of blockstun.
@@LordKnightfgc ahhh I see and the negative data on block in how long the opponent recovers in perspective to the attacker? Meaning since the opponent will recover 12 frames faster than Millia in this example after the 5h's i18 blockstun, Milia will still be recovering for 12 while the opponent already resolved the initial lvl4 attack's blockstun?
In short - framedata on normals is completely useless on block and all that matters is attack level, so it becomes true framedata. Cool
No, both matter.
can we please start referring to it as "BUMBACLOTT counter" ?
PPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEE!
3f normals shouldn't exist. It's so hard to frametrap someone mashing Sol's 5k without autoframetrap like the one you mentioned.
E.g. Try manually frametrapping with Millia's 5k 5k and see how hard it is. Now imagine how hard it is online.
Funny enough, that 3f timing for her 5K is very useful for another reason. It's the same window for it to combo into itself on normal hit while still being a frametrap (unless I fucked up with my math).
It's still kind of annoying, but it's worth learning regardless of 3f normals being a thing or not.
I thought Strive was trying to be the more accessible Guilty Gear. No, nothing much has changed, only pro and hardcore players will understand this.
Just because there's more depth to the systems doesn't make it not accessible. This is easily the most accessible Guilty Gear there's ever been, and attack levels isn't something that you need intimate knowledge of to even perform well at the game.
All it serves to do is explain why some things work the way they do. Like if you're doing the c.s, hs block string LK showed, and you know it's a tight frame trap, finding out later that it works like that because of attack level isn't going to change you doing said blockstring. You just know exactly why it works now.
Like I don't want to downplay how useful the knowledge can be, because it can be useful to know, but I guarantee you a lot of players, even the better ones are just playing the game without really thinking about attack level. It's easy enough to understand that "oh, this blockstring is tight" "this counter hit is big".
I think if you have any passing knowledge of fighting games the concept is simple enough. Bigger button, bigger effects.
Having a high skill ceiling doesn't determine accessibility, having a lower skill floor does, which this game absolutely does. Combo timing is more lenient, some gatlings removed, etc. So you can go into the game right now, press buttons and cool stuff will happen.
However if you do desire to delve into higher levels of play, stuff like this is here to help. It's not necessary to understanding the game at a base level.
And the floor system stops people at say a floor 10 level from beating on people in the first floor. You actually can't go into a lower floor.
The exception being the Park of course where anybody can fight anybody. But that's if you want to go there.
The thing for me is sitting down learning which move does what and why in which situation etc, i think people genuinely enjoy learning frame traps, setups, frame data and so on, i get so bored that i never get to high levels in fighting games, above average is when i start to lose interest, after 110 hours in strive im done studying a damn game the earns me nothing haha, floor 9 is good enough to have fun for me, ill just learn combos because thats fun, just dont care if i win or lose anymore tbh its fun either way
15 characters and roughly all moves total = 500+ moves that's plenty of frame data. Strive has lots of odd stuff too, like risc, attack level and FD etc. Guilty Gear series is strange. Accessible for pro and hardcore players who like homework. And when those patches come...you gotta start learning all again, that's no fun unless your getting paid.
@@loohole81 more characters to come aswell😂, whatever i pick up just playing and watching videos ill apply but i enjoy too many other games and going outside, max payne 3 is so good been playing that and doom eternal
you the goat LK