Does bat weight matter? Does a heavier bat mean better performance? | ASA / USSSA Slowpitch Softball
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- čas přidán 20. 09. 2022
- League Night Softball tackles a huge debate in Slowpitch. Is a lighter bat or heavier bat better? We put this to the test and the data was clear!
Thanks to Brandon Lin & Vince Ha for letting us use their bats for this video!
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I've always gone by the theory (in slowpitch) to swing the heaviest bat you can until batspeed drops off significantly. I never had radar to test it so I went by feel.
According to our recent data, you've been doing it right the whole time! We are looking into doing a bit more analysis in future videos.
I'm 6'6 and 240 lb, when I played I always used a 26 oz bat. It just felt quicker. I can hit the ball a long way. Just didn't feel like I could whip it with the heavier bat.
I’m 6’4” and 240 with long arms and just started playing softball but I played regular baseball all my life till 8th grade but now I’m a a junior in college now and need a new bat is there anything u recommend because im not sure and want to be happy with the next one I buy cause they are expensive 😅
All depends on your swing, I grew up swinging my old man’s heavy bags so what’s what I adopted my swing to, I hit much better with a 30oz than I do a 26 haha
Thanks for finally broaching this subject. It was definitely a very enlightening experiment!
Go swing something heavy!
Love the content. Keep up the good work fellas!
Thank you for watching!
Great video guys ! I was a 26oz guy until i made the switch to heavier 28oz and maybe 30 if ive been lucky. Ever since i made the switch ive been hitting the ball much harder. Highly recommend going heavier if you can
In the end it is all about bat speed and hardness. Bat speed contributes to the energy that you can impart to the ball, given by the equation E(sub K) = 1/2 M V^2, where ^2 is the exponent. As you can see by the equation, Energy is impacted by the square of the velocity (or bat speed) in the direction of the force imparted on the ball. The mass of the bat does not contrinute as much. A lighter bat means that you can deliver a higher velocity for a given mass. The second important aspect of the bat is its hardness. A hard bat will transfer more energy to the ball because it will not lose as much energy due to vibraction, which is usually indicated by the loud sound of the bat. A hard bat will have ahigher coeficient of restitution, which is given by the equation e = (V2 - V1)/(U2 - U1), where V2 is the vinal velocity of obect A after impact, V1 is initial velocity of object A before impact. U2 is the final velocity of obect B before impact, and U2 is the initial velocity of object B before impact. if e = 1, then we have perfect elasticity, meaning no loss of energy or perfect energy transfer. if e = 0, then we have perfect inelasticity, meaning the obects are stuck together. A hard bat would have e closer to 1. So in the end, all things being equal, a lighter harder bat will have more impact on bat peformance with respect to how much energy can be imparted to a ball, which usually means harder line drives and more home runs ;-)
I think that the big thing that happens in a practical sense is there can be a mass separation when a player swings a lighter bat which loses power because your bodies mass isn’t moving into the ball at contact. , with technique and timing adjusted perfectly the extra bat speed achieved with a light bat does yield more force than a heavier bat. Most medium level players will benefit from the connected power with a slightly heavier bat.
What if you have a 151 pound 6’3 kid with a 6’7 wingspan swinging a heavier bat in baseball? I know this is softball but I’m sure the same applies in baseball. It seems like a 32/29 would be more beneficial because of the bat control but his coaches want him swinging a 33 or 34. He’ll most major leaguers do t swing a 34. Even Arron Judge swings a 35 but he’s 6’8.
I'm really enjoying the content you guys are posting! Out of curiosity, what radar app are you guys using? Keep up the great work!
Thanks for watching! We would love to hear any other ideas you have for content that you would like to see, just let us know.
The app we are using is the PR Sports (Pocket Radar). It pairs to the Pocket Radar Smart Coach. You have to get the Smart Coach for it to pair with the app, the Ball Coach model will only announce speeds out loud via the device, but won't have bluetooth connectivity. Here is a link to the model we use for reference:
amzn.to/3DLQ08c
Just found you guys, great channel! Love the content.
I always figured the heaviest bat I could swing with an endload without sacrificing bat speed was the way to go. Cool to see a video breaking it down in slow pitch.
I swing a Demarini Omega now when I can, 28oz endload, but my other is a lighter, balanced Aftermath that I'll bring out when I just want to try and place a base hit. May just stick to the Omega period.
Also, I see you're still uploading, so glad you guys didn't get arrested 😅
Haha! We did not get arrested. We actually got a few encouraging words from that same house while filming our most recent video. I think we are in the clear!
@@LeagueNightSoftball TFTI
What is the theory behind people thinking they need a balanced bat when they looking for base hits? It’s mind boggling to me. The bat don’t matter. Same way people think that you’ll hit less homers with a balanced bat. Morons
NAGAAA SOUTH FLORIDA UNITED HERE! When I first started playing softball of the age of 21 I was swinging a 30-oz bat and was still hitting home runs. Now I will be 43 still playing looking forward to the World Series in Vegas but I tend to use the lighter but now for bad speed
It's always a pleasure to watch your content . I'm serious about my offer to sign you guys up if you're ever out this way
Appreciate that! We will definitely let you know if we are ever in the area. We are starting to look at the schedule for the year, if it brings us to your area, you will be the first to know!
@@LeagueNightSoftball cool no way . Awesome
Great video! Maybe you could do a part 2 and test a 28 and 30 and see if the exit velo increase continues. Even if it's not the exact same bat, I bet you still get some useful data.
We would love to do this! 28oz and 30oz are a bit harder to get a hold of though.
Good video. A round two comparing exit velo off tee would be helpful.
Swinging on live pitching and adjusting for launch angles and miss hits is controlled for with a uniform swing off a tee directly into a net with the radar placed behind it.
The more the trajectory of the ball differs from the line of the radar, the less accurate the read. Balls hit directly into the line of the radar best illustrate the max potential of each bat
Great idea! We are definitely going to look into doing that!
Been telling guys this for yrs. I keep nothing but 30oz suncoast in my bag. Keep up the good work fellas
We are quickly becoming heavy bat converts!
Hi guys. It’s been my question too for the last few weeks and I just found this video. Can I ask what are your heights and what were your bodyweights at the moment of the video, approximately ? Thanks !
I have 28, end load, 1 piece, Easton Rival I bought when I first started slowpitch 2 years ago. It was cheapish, and I didn’t know if I’d like softballs. I use it for BP all the time.
In game I swing my friends 27, end load, composite Louisville slugger, and have had good results.
I’m getting a new bat, and have considered a 26 semi end load, Easton Salvo to really allow my contact hitting to develop.
I swing a 30 oz 0.5 oz end load, and a 29 oz 1.0 oz end load. They swing about the same. I notice better stability in my swings with bats that are heavier. I normally swing a 34oz in baseball so it is a drop in weight for me to swing these lighter bats. Thank you for the information! I didn't get to go to worlds this year maybe I will make half the games next year and see you guys.
Thanks for the insight! Hard to find 30oz bats nowadays, demand seems to trend lighter. We would love to do another review with an even larger weight gap (30oz vs. 25oz). I imagine dropping 4oz from baseball makes the softball bat seem super light. We will def be at World's this year. Keep in touch, we can meet up!
@@LeagueNightSoftball most definitely! I always have a problem making half the games with my work schedule. The only decent 30 oz bat I have seen was the 2022 Miken Freak Primo, and the end cap is held on with prayer. The Easton Stealth repaints are also available in 30 oz, but when I bought mine the 12" barrel was only available in 29 oz. The 14" was available in the 30 oz at that time though. My initial experience with the stealth repaint is that it isn't that hot, but might break in over time.
The answer is actually a lot easier than you think. First you would need to ask Carl at Monsta. One of the bigger things he did with the ASA bats especially once he went to a 25 oz bat was certified a 25 oz bat at its hottest possible velocity. After that he started messing more with weights. As far as the USSSA bats go I don’t know if he made a lighter bat as hot as possible or certified the 27.5 model then just took weight out of it like the old school bats. By that theory the lighter bats can’t be hotter. It seems now a days he doesn’t talk as much about his technology and what tested at what MPH though.
Very interesting! I had not heard about that method of testing before. We would love to do an updated (and hopefully more scientific) version of this video someday. Carl, if you are reading this, send us a message would love to talk to you about it and maybe even test it out again!
We did this a couple of months ago and never put the video out. Great idea btw! My only question is how much did the flex in the handle make a difference. I don't think it was significant but curious if there was factor involved. Going heavier with more flexible handle vs Going lighter with a stiffer handle. Also I did notice the flex in the handle when we reviewed a 26 with a 3500 handle. Great job Guys! Keep it up!
Hey thanks! We thought about if the flex made a difference and in the end, it was more about comfort than it was about performance. I'm not sure that either handle performed better or worse than the other but the 3500 was definitely more forgiving when it came to rattling your hands on miss hits.
Great video! I wondered about this since I switched from a 28oz to a 25oz this year. FYI, when I first started playing, we swung a 38oz!! Still have it in the garage:)
38 oz seems insane! Would you ever go back to a heavier bat?
@@LeagueNightSoftball It was! Still pull it out every once in a while for a few swings. Based on your video, yes I am going to try to get my hands on a heavier bat and see what happens:)
Yep
I used a 38oz Tennessee Thumper when I started playing in 82
Had a watch, cool video. I don’t think we can conclude the heavier bat goes farther though. I’m not a big statistician but did enough in university to get by. The stiffness of the handles could play a role, which you mentioned. Also it wasn’t clear if the compression of the bats were the same so very hand to know if we are comparing apples to apples.
It would be nice for someone to compare the EXACT same bat, in 25oz and 28oz, with the same compression at the start of each round, and have 30 different batters do it to give it statistical significance, with n=30 at a minimum so the data can normalize.. (I know that’s asking a lot, but only then could you truly say it’s settled).
This would be a fantastic experiment! Unfortunately, we do not have the mean to make it happen. I (Cam) can tell you, definitively, that heavier is better for me. If you would have told me that a year ago I would have never believed you.
If you swing a different weight for BP won't that significantly affect how you place the ball? This week I did the practice with the cones from a past video and it would have been noticeably different with a different weight bat I would think, but maybe I am wrong somehow.
I think it really depends on each individual. That's why we left the caveat in the video that you should only move up if it doesn't significantly effect your swing. In Jason and I's case, I think we have been capable of swing heavier for a while now but for whatever reason didn't think to try and swing a heavier bat. We just want to encourage people to step outside thier comfort zone to see what happens. Might make improvements might be detriments but at least you know.
It shouldn't affect how you place the ball too much. In BP if you swing a heavier bat, it's helping you build up strength and muscle memory. You may get tired a lot quicker in, but if you can do it in BP consistently when you're tired, then you can do it in a game when you're tired as well. That's part of building that muscle memory and strength. I would say though make sure the BP bats specs (barrel length, endload weight) are the same as your gamer, minus the bat weight. That way you gain consistency with that as well instead of jumping around from endload weight and barrel size. If you know you have a tournament on the weekend, the week leading up to it, switch to your normal bat weight that you swing so it gives you time to adjust. Its easier to adjust between say a 26oz and 27oz compared to a 26oz from a 28/30oz. Hope that helps
Nice work fellas!
Thanks! We are having fun with these experiments.
Hey guys I’m very new to softball I have just finished playing my first season, I have a 34 inch 27 oz cheap bath and it ended up bending at the handle. I have about 300 bux to spend and I want to get the same in length and weight. What do you think would be a good bat for me? My best off the tee in practice for distance would be mid out field closer to the infield and maybe just a lil further hitting off the pitcher in game. I would like to get more distance next season!
Hey Josh, welcome to the channel! Congrats on completing your first season. Do you know what “style” of play you are in (ASA or USSSA)? Maybe let us know what the make and model of the bay you currently have so we can make a few recommendations!
I think it really depends on personal preference. I have gone down to a balanced 26 because I have the best barrel control with that. However 5 years ago I used a 28 end load and hit the ball 310 +. More mass equals higher exit velo and more distance. Great video and topic guys!
Thanks! It definitely comes down to preference. You have to swing what allows you to do your job in the best way possible. For us, the more velo we put on the ball, the greater chance it gets away from the defense and we get on base.
Assuming you have the power to swing heavier this makes sense. Good content!
It's really interesting to think about. Honestly, I think a lot of players could go up in weight. It doesn't take a hulking power hitter to swing 27oz
@@LeagueNightSoftball I remember being told "as long as you can maintain good bat speed after contact you are good to go." This was a long time ago though...
See You Guys In VEGAS! Good Run In HOUSTON!
Good video, its really simple though mass x velo = power heavier bat moving at the same speed ball will travel further. Where the personal preferance comes in is as you get better youre gonna need to hit inf holes and gaps and it can be harder to control the barrel of a heavier bat. So you will be willing to give up distance and velo to hit the ball where you want.
We agree with you. We have heard the talk for awhile now and understand the math. We wanted to put some empirical data behind the conversation for anyone who may need to see it to believe it. It is definitely possible that there is a slight decrease in bat speed as you go up in weight, so understanding where the tipping point is by experimenting with different bat weights is important. Bat control is definitely still very important and you shouldn't sacrifice that just to hit the ball harder. If you can't put it in spots, hitting it harder may not always be better. Thanks for watching!
It depends on where the xtra weight is! A lot of Bats add the Weight in the Handle! That does nothing for mass! No wonder the 27 feels light! The Weight is in the Handle! This Demo proves nothing! Plus the Handles are different Flex! You are comparing Apples to Oranges!
I have been swinging a 30oz max end load for some time now
Where do you find that radar??
Awesome I started swinging the new zombie fiend and I got a 27 fallout lazer coming in. Currently hitting 250ish with 25oz I used to hit homers with a 30oz years ago hoping it’ll work
Let us know what you think about the new Lazer. We got a 27oz Fallout for BP and it has been a lot of fun to swing. As long as you control the bat at the heavier weight, swing heavier!
Great video guys…..was glad to see my stick dropping bombs.
It was lights out! Thanks for letting us put a few swings on it!
I’ve swung heavy bats for years. When I try lighter I don’t square up the ball as well and pop them up a lot. I actually still swing a 30 but they’re becoming hard to find.
I'm only 5'4 and I feel that when I use a heavier bat I hit better for some reason I've tried to use a lighter bat and I'm always early on just hit the barrel or I miss so I think for me a heavier bat is better.
Nice! I feel like a lot more people should experiment with bat weight. Regretting I didn't do it sooner!
@@LeagueNightSoftball exactly like I play in A men soft ball league. first game I used a 30 oz went 3-4. Second game I used a 25 and went 1-5 couldn't time the ball I was either too early or kept hitting it at the barrel went back to a 300z went 4-5 so yeah I think a heavier bat would be best
I like the ability to use the whole field . People play me straight up line to line . I need the light bat for mostly control . I hit it plenty hard enough . It works for me . When I've used a heavier bat I'll struggle til I get the feel . I've never swung a 25 Oz bat . I want to and with the technology I know if I can square it anywhere line to line I'll burn a lot of people if they play me in . When I want to I got good pop line to line
We've been swinging heavier (27oz) bats for the last few months and haven't had any issues with bat control. It's actually been an easy transition. We are still able to hit to all fields but tend to have slightly more zip on the ball. To each thier own though. Thanks for watching!
@@LeagueNightSoftball nice . I might bump it up but I'm no longer a spring chicken like you guys . I get tired easily and I know for me n a heavier bat a really gotta focus on one or maybe 2 good pitches per at bat with a heavier stick . I swing a little more freer with a little more authority with the lighter bat
Ray Demarini always said swing as heavy as you can. His BP was 100 at game weight, 100 at heavier and 100 at ultra light, back then 30 was considered a light weight bat. I've tried swinging a 27 oz and could not get it right. Back to my 30oz SCN5 and boom ball launcher.
I generally swing a 26oz bat. I never got home runs. I used a 30oz 2022 Miken Primo and hit 2 right of the wrapper first 2 swings. I'll be swinging a heavier bat going forward
You should check out Mike macenko strategy. Some would say he's the babe Ruth of softball I don't know but he has a hell of a swing.
Thanks! We'll check him out!
I just started it and look forward to the improvements.
I was just asking about this... on another video. I was contemplating on going lighter for bat speed. But it didn't feel like I was performing better. I think I'm going to keep my 26.5, 27oz. weight.
Our recommendation is definitely go heavier but everyone is different. If you try something lighter, let us know what you think!
I’m swinging an old school miken 30 oz alloy right now and I feel like my swing is more balanced
We've heard from a lot of people over this last week confessing how much they love thier heavy bats. Glad we aren't the only ones that are thinking this way. Thanks for watching!
Let’s go Brandon!
Did the bats have close to an equal number of swings?
When we got them, the 27 had some swings and the 25.5 was new in wrapper. However, we put more swings on the 25.5 so they have a similar amount of swings by the time we were finished.
The radar has to be lined up with where the hands come across the plate for better accuracy
Thanks for the comment. According to the PocketRadar manual, it needs to be configured 15' - 20' in front of or behind the batter to get the optimal reading.
So this question has been around forever and honestly if you break it down just by distance as long as you can swing a heavier bat the same speed it usually wins. Doing ball velocity usually at worlds in viera im usually mid/low 90s but what pro I did see in distance I also saw a con in getting tired faster during the day and consistency can take a hit..... Batting 800 with a 26 and 15 ft less on the ball is more important than batting 600 with 1 big bomb for the day. Just a humble man's opinion though....take with a grain of salt.
We totally agree that losing OBP for a bit of velo is not worth it. That being said, I feel like it would be worth a bit of extra training to be able to last all day with a heavier bat. To each thier own. There are tons of different ways to be successful in slowpitch. Thanks for watching!
@@LeagueNightSoftball oh I totally agree with you on the bp thing! Great video! We've started using a thunderstick that's heavy as hell. And gives us a few rounds to just get fatigued and work on hand eye/watching the softball all the way to contact. Which is something us old farts stop doing/forget to do.
i used to swing the heavier bats because I was stronger but as I got older the lighter the bat, the faster my swing was.....things to consider, do you lose control with heavier bat???....are you a little slower swinging/reacting to a 28MPH pitch????....there are also new or recently advertised practices of weighing the end of the bat and the handle and seeing how much "ass" is on the end of the bat and how much in your hands...an example of this might be my Monsta unleashed 25 ounce bat...end load is 17.4 ounces and handle weight is 8.4 ounces....a heavy endloaded bat by the way I measure them is 17.6 or more and a handle weight of 8.3.....on the other hand a very balanced bat, my Genesis Iron man is about 16.1 on the end and 9 on the hands...the balance point on the bat changes depending on where the weight is distributed and depending on how fast you can swing the bat AND going heavier in total bat weight will determine what bat is best for YOUR swing....great analysis guys but I think more in the future, you will be able to order bats by picking your end caps and handles will be common for higher end bats...some have even started making bats for players like this style of buying right now....it's all about the science
We love to nerd out on the science of it all. Right now, for us, the data says heavier is better.
Interesting point about swing weight as we age. I play on a team where most of the players are 60+. They ALL prefer heavier bats. Most of them swing 28oz.
@@LeagueNightSoftball do you think that’s more the case because they are older and it’s what they’ve used forever?
Or do they go heavier despite having tried newer tech in lighter bats?
It's probably a bit of both. However, just based on physics, at a certain point mass will become a bigger factor than speed. I would love to see the actual calculation on this. I think the extra weight really helps when your bat speed slows down as you get older. That being said, most of these guys are swinging for the fences. I imagine the extra weight helps them get those line drive base hits that they are looking for.
We grew up in an era where the bat didn't flex, the ball did. Mass was very impotant due to that factor. I swang 36/34 up until the late 90's where I dropped down to 32. At 69 my senior gamers are 28/27, while my ASA/USSSA bats range from 27-25. I go to the lower weights in tourneys if I am getting tired. Did a test years ago with a Demarini Juice in sizes 26-28 and the 28 won with the 26 and 30 both being very close. Swing the heaviest bat that you can still retain batspeed with is what I was told.
PS, I was hitting balls further than I had ever at 49 with my 1st composite back in '02. Miken Velocit-E
That's why i push the JIM_MER STICKS so hard. Hit more with the JIM_MER STICKS and less with you gamer. Saves the gamer bats.
It's a great product. Everyone should order one asap!
I went from a 28 to a 30 and I noticed a good amount of more distance with the 30.
We definitely saw similar results when we upped the weight. We haven't swung any 30s though!
@@LeagueNightSoftball will it gets to the point of diminishing returns. As long as you can keep bat speed and bat control consistent, you're going to get better results from more weight. If the bat speed and bat control goes down, then it's time to move back down in weight. Prime example is roll a 10lb bowling ball next to a 16lb bowling ball and see which ones hits the pins harder.
Exit velo doesn’t trump all.
How long could you swing the 27? Could you play a tourney all day with it?
If the answer is no then you might be better off with the 25.5
I swing 26 with 1/2oz end load and I don’t really stray from that.
I think for me it’s get best of both worlds
That is a very good point. In our cases, I think we have been able to handle a heavier bat for some time but just hadn't experimented with it. That being said, if you try a heavy bat and like it but aren't able to last a whole tourney, I would argue it's better to train yourself for that endurance and transition to the heavier bat over time. To each their own. Thanks watching!
@@LeagueNightSoftball I mean yeah that’s a reasonable plan.
See y’all aren’t taking into a factor of playing a tourney with a heavier bat snd what affects that has on you when your in game 678 on a weekend Iv found a comfortable spot for myself in a 26 with a full oz endload allowed me to keep the same swing all weekend long and not feel tired or that I needed to drop down in weight to keep good swing mechanics
I (Cam) switched from 25 EL to 27 EL and haven't had any issues with tiredness, even after a 7 or 8 game tourney. The body adapts very quickly if you are consistent!
If you can swing a heavier bat hands down the ball will go farther. Physics.
The goal is not batspeed, it's bat velocity at contact and bat speed after contact.
a heavy bat is 28 to 30oz......if ....they make a 30oz anymore......27oz EL seems to be the sweet spot between bat speed vs. Mass
Monstas swing heavier than sticker, no need to make 30 oz since no one’s gonna buy them
Also this would force Monsta to certify based off of the 30 oz which would make the lighter weights less hot
With more and more 25oz bats coming onto the market, many manufacturers are topping out at 27oz. That about as heavy as they go for many companies.
monsta does actually have 28 oz trippins but no one buys them as expected lol
@@blacksheepsoftball I believe in the early 2000s some bats would have thicker walls in heavier bats to get those bats to pass. I'm fairly certain the associations test all the weights because they know the weight affects performance.
Light is a 24, heavy is a 28. 1.5 oz difference won't tell you that much.
Hitting Hot Dots ... Go Heavy !
We don't hit hot dots very often but when we do we'll remember that!
27 is heavy???
Male players should be able to swing 28 oz balance bats pretty successfuly.
We are starting to become believers. I think we both came into slowpitch during the era of everyone wanting to swing lighter so that's all we've every really known.
@@LeagueNightSoftball PSU has a really good page on the physics of bats. You should check it out. Everyone pretty much swings a 26oz bat if you follow the formula listed on the page with the bat weights.
great idea but you're not hitting the same bats. The fact that they don't have the same handles pretty much negates the results.
27 is not a heavy Bat. I’m 69 and swing 27!
I definitely understand where you are coming from. From what we understand 20 years ago or more 28 and 30 Oz bats were pretty common. Bat weight trends have been getting lower and lower in recent years. I would say 90% of the bats I see in dugouts today are 25 or 26 Oz. I don't know the reason why but we are certainly thinking that trend is going in the wrong direction. We are sold on heavier weights! Jason and I both have started acquiring heavier bats.
You can’t even find anything heavier than a 28 to buy anymore. I’ll be sad when my 30 bats wear out.
You’re not going to get high exit speeds hitting pop ups
People are making videos for beer league softball 😂
It's true! There are lots of videos on CZcams on all sorts of hobbies. Thanks for watching.
@@onebac that’s like saying you’re the kid with autism at fat camp 🏕️