Is there a future for Privateers in Supercross... đ€
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 4. 05. 2024
- Clinton Fowler & Gypsy Tales debate if privateers should race supercross or not. Comment below what you think?
My guest today is Clinton Fowler, the man behind the fantastic statistics that you hear each and every weekend on the Supercross broadcast as well as the fantastic online resource wewentfast.com and his own instagram @fowlerfacts. Clinton gave up his high-paying job at Microsoft developing the XBox to work in the action sports world with Red Bull and wound up developing the sports first detailed database almost on accident. I am a big storylines guy in the sport and no matter what story you throw Clintons way, he has a stat to either back it up or shoot you down. This was a highly enjoyable episode of the podcast with an extremely interesting and knowledgeable guy!
If you enjoyed the stats side of this show, you can sign up to wewentfast.com to get access to Fowlers great database and a ton of unique stories that I doubt you have ever heard!
Ok, Iâm going to leave a comment here⊠First of all, listen to the entire video before you comment. Iâve read every comment on this video and itâs clear that 95% of you have just commented before youâve watched (also, I can see this in the analytics lol).
Hereâs basically what Iâm saying in a nutshell.
120 riders hit the track on a Saturday - 44 riders make the final.
This means, that for the majority of the time of the broadcast - race day live and the broadcast - we are watching riders that donât make the actual race that counts towards the championship.
To the comments that say âyouâll only have 8 riders on the gateâ - I said that it should be mandatory for a manufacturer to have 2 riders on the gate. In 2025 we have 9 manufacturers, in 2026 we will have 10. So this would equal 20 riders on the gate every single weekend.
With a mandatory 2 rider lineup, factory teams would have to hire reserve riders which would immediately promote the fastest privateers to a team.
Rider entries donât pay for the cost of Supercross so we are not in danger of Feld not being able to put the series on if the entry list goes from 120 - 40 riders.
lol I knew I should have listened to the whole video,
I apologize about asking you to stay iâm Australia
your still a POTHEAD
Correct, I did not listen to the entire videoâŠlost interest in your opinion when you made that stupid comment.
Oh, I listened to it. It's a great take, and I fully agree. Just expanding on the sport could be hours of conversation. But it's a conversation I love and will continue to have.
I listened to the full clip. I donât think you realize how many of the guys in the heats are riding for privateer teams. Also you talk about working your way up to be âone of the guysâ, some of âthose guysâ donât deserve their factory ride.
@@vincerogers1417 Because you're very obviously an idiot, because judging without hearing an explanation or elaboration is what idiots do. So...congrats, I guess? Good for you? Do you want a prize?
Privateers really get shit on by the majority of the moto media. Pulp is probably THE biggest exception. He does more for them than anyone.
đŻđŻđŻ
What do they do for the sport though? Absolutely nothing but fill the gate, and get in the leaders way.
Literally not shitting on them at all. Maybe watch the video before you make a dumb comment, because this comment makes _no_ sense in the context of what was actually said in the video.
Make a race entertaining.
@@tylerj9608 then don't watch! Privateers do not intentionally get in anyone's way. I would rather see the gate full of 40 privateers than 10 factory riders.
Privateers are the heart and soul of the sport
Absolutely. It doesn't exist without them. Jesus Christ
This guy lives In Dubai, totally out of touch
I live in the US lol
@@GYPSYTALESFunny how you argue about that but not your terrible point
You don't tune in to watch privateers. Let's be real here.
Why aren't Supercross events two days? Run a Privateer program on Fridays with the top 10 or 20 or whatever riders transferring to ride with the top guys on Saturday. Sell discounted tickets for Friday and bring in a bunch of fans that maybe hesitant to pay up for Saturday.
They used to do that and the factory riders whined until it went down to one day.
@@DrtyALGreen really nevrer knew when was this
@@boxd1888 It was RC leading the charge to get it down to one day if that give you a time frame. I think maybe '01-'02 is when they went to the one day format.
How much do you think it costs to rent a stadium?
@GYPSYTALES
âŠdirt work/material logistics in total is close to or as much as the stadium rental
âŠthat Iâm 1000% certain of
Been riding dirt bikes for 20 years and this is the saddest thing Iâve seen in a long time hating on everybody except for the popular kids and let me just point out. Youâre not even a pro or an amateur. You have no idea what it takes to be there, Lawrence would not be Lawrence if it wasnât for his amateur private career
Gypsy is the epitome of delusions of grandeur by proximity and association. That because he's acquainted with factory riders that hes one of them if he panders to their desires. He's more a fan than he is a rider, so he cares more about the entertainment value and gossip than he does the sport itself.
Was Jett ever a privateer in Supercross? I think he rode for Geico and then Factory Honda?
He said âAMATEUR
@@joshuacorbin1410 Right, which isn't professional SX. Being an amateur and being a privateer are two completely different things.
@@joshuacorbin1410 but what does that have to do with my point?
I'm going to throw you a bone here. I believe there has to be change, especially because of lappers. Some are getting lapped twice per race, and they're getting in the way.
Instead, I'd propose a privateer class. One class for the factory riders, one for the privateers. That gives an opportunity for privateers to show off against equal conpetition (and potentially land a factory ride), and allows better racing in the factory class since there are less lappers.
Thatâd be really cool
You wouldnât even have a full gate without privateers âŠ. Terrible take Gypsy
Completely agreed đ
Na bring in moto gp guys
This is the problem we're dealing with as a result of a want to globalize American motocross. We can't celebrate our differences anymore.
â@@Drdddiiisss-ho6uu mannnnn, ain't no moto gp guys coming off of road bikes to race in the dirt with the money they make
Then make the gate smallerâŠ
Dude couldnât even make it around the supercross track once. Worry about gagging on Deegan like you usually dođ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Then don't watch! You couldn't make it around a sx track with a competitive lap time, stop dissing on the privateer. At least he was out there while YOU sat on the couch!
COMPLETELY AGREE. MAKE SUPERCROSS MAINSTREAM SO PEOPLE SEE HOW MUCH EFFORT ACTUALLY GOES IN. let it breathe. Amen. Get everyone paid. I literally couldnât agree more with every point. This needs to be seen by everyone who makes these decisions. Supercross and then premium or pro supercross or some sort of names like that. Everyone needs attention but some deserve more. Too many guys out there.
Came into watching this ready to be angry. But now Iâm feeling pretty convinced đ€·ââïž
Only the best of the best make it to the NFL, NBA, NHL. Idk why this is so crazy to say
The pool of athletes isnât comparable at all.
Imagine if the nfl had tryouts every week before the game. All the dudes who usually get cut at training camp get a chance to show up on game day and tryout on the game field. Everyone knows theyâre gonna get cut so all they are doing is wasting everyoneâs time and tearing up the field for the guys who actually play and make the sport money. Moto business is probably different but I can see where heâs coming from.
Good try, but totally different sport and not relatable. These dudes put their own money and equipment into it and most of them don't have a lot of either. Think of Matt Burkeen. Guy is skilled and was on Deegan's ass for an entire race. Do you suppose a better bike, or more money could have changed that? Maybe, maybe not, but pro football guys are as talented as they are, and better equipment doesn't make them better. Or let's say Hunter's engine blows up, his team switches it out in plenty time to hit the next gate drop while he is recovering in his $1M+ semi home away from home. Do yo think Matt can do the same...... Just saying.
@@scott729 right but if a guy shows that he can hang with the best he should stick around. I think his problem is with the guys who show up to qualifying and never sniff the night show and the guys who get lapped in short heat races and never advance in a lcq
â@scott729 being on a privateer bike isn't a massive hindrance. Nick way was a better rider on a privateer Honda than he was on a factory Suzuki. This happens more than people think.
apples to oranges
Imagine if the NFL only paid a team for half of their bench, but would not have a game unless the bench was full? Would potential top players have a chance to compete, and get a paid seat?
I agree there needs to be a factory class with factory riders only.
This concept has never come across my mind..BUT it actually makes sense if you think about it rationally.
No it doesnât, supercross isnât f1
The sport is dying in ways. God I literally could not agree more. Get this seen by who needs to see it
You canât turn SX into F1. Thatâs not the direction it needs to go
What about a stock class in supercross?
Yes, stock tires and all. Would love that.
@@Slotmassacre i wouldn't say stock tires, so it like the loretta's stock class, you get to have bars, seat, tires, and i believe some suspension work (might be wrong on suspension) and just no engine mods, pipes or that sorta thing
Disagree if anything they should change the rules for more mods. These guys are getting paid huge money and i don't want to see a spec class. I want to see works bikes again. It would push the technology even faster.
WHY? Go back to natural terrain, two stroke bikes, 3 classes, 125, 250, and open. I'll bet that 1. you will get bigger turn outs than currently. 2. You would get more people racing especially grass roots racing. 3. It would be safer. 4. The tracks wouldn't get all rutted up. Look forward, not radical changes that will end the sport.
@@denniswilder3014 i think the factory guys should have more mods and have works bikes. But i think it would also be interesting and beneficial to have a stock class for more of the privateers where they can still race and be competitive with each other and actually be able to afford to go race every weekend. Not spending a years budget just to get your bike competitive and hope that you make some mains to get some money to go race next weekend.
Pros and cons on this topic of courseâŠ..however if the sport wants to grow further than where we are currently at, we need to pay attention to other world class sports and how they operate
I think everyone complaining and talking crap in the comments really needs to watch the full clip. Gypsy has some really good points and clearly isn't hating on the privateer riders. He's talking about a possible avenue to grow the sport and create more opportunities.
In a race this year, I think they lapped up to 6th place....
That's because there's not 40 guys on the planet that can run that pace. What do you want, a race with 5 guys in it?
@@racer7452 Are you a bot?
@@davidciesielski8251 can you read?
clint and jayce talk for a living. even jayce can't do that without the f bomb. honestly no one cares what either of these guys think
The amount of views say youâre lying.
The amount of veiws dont say hes lying it just shows he likes controversy and uses it to bring eyes on his channel. People dont take this patatoe serious. If it were up to this cum rag it would be man buns electric bikes and 40 riders total.
You care enough to watch the video. Heâs right. I bet you made this comment without actually listening to the video.
@@Mockle07 i watched because of the clickbate title, won't make that mistake again. and he is wrong
@@billhutchens9666 lol yet you still referred to him as âJaseâ. You know who he is, donât pretend đ€ŠđŒââïžđ
Heâs 100% right, no-one is tuning in to see privateers battle it out to make the main. If privateers disappeared the ratings and entertainment wouldnât drop at all.
Jase went to great lengths to explain that he rates those privateer guy and knows they are phenomenal riders but they are not the draw, they are a drawback to the actual show. Hardly any proper, pro sport allows weekend warriors to hold back the progression of the actual sport, itâs archaic.
How can you have a professional license and go thru regional qualifiers and then qualify on race day then you make it to the main event and you look like your parents just bought you a dirt bike for your birthday 2 weeks ago!?
Great idea Gypsy. Giving privateers a platform to excel and shine could give us race fans another high class outlet to watch and also provide another source for revenue to be brought into the sport. Plus, these riders could potentially become break out stars that are given factory rides after refining their race craft and standing out in their own race format. Plus, the factory riders would benefit as you mentioned. You are literally proposing an idea that places more importance on privateers and people think youâre are dogging themâŠ
I can agree with this take, we know who the main 10 to 15 guys are gonna be every week, we dont need 100 guys trying to qualify because they just aren't going to, needs to be like clint said f2 f3 classes, how this would all work i have no idea
Short term, SX1, SX2, SX3 model would work & just add one day before or after the FRI / SAT situation.
I've said this on several MX / SX channels though - I'd LOVE to see is a totally separate STOCK class of privateer riders in 4 classes on the same MX / SX tracks the following weekend or even MON/TUES after the big show (if necessary) [stadiums have other events set for the following weekend].
There are a LOT of ways to speed up the STOCK bike / privateer "after party" racing event like - practice session laps will determine qualifying time & gate pick, there are no heat races. There would be smaller rider groups in 4 classes anyway, but if it blew up, YAY! That would justify renting a stadium the following weekend for another 3-day event, etc.
There could be two 10~12? minute motos per class + 2 laps (arena cross = small tracks with two 30 minute motos). I expect Arenacross guys would show up for this & ride 2 & 4 stroke races!
There would be 4 classes = 125 2-stroke / 250 2-stroke / 250 4-stroke / 450 4-stroke - no mixing 2 & 4 strokes. Bone STOCK frame, motor, gear box, clutch, suspension are required.
STOCK class allows only ergonomic changes like wide foot pegs, brake & shift levers @ feet & hands, handlebars & clamp + seat & tires. The last allowed change = chain & sprockets.
THAT would be cool. It would push MFGs to make better products in the end. Current "works / factory" bikes are almost like MotoGP & F1 cars - nobody can get what they've got...
everyone in comments missing the point hes making about giving privateers their own platform. How is it helping privateers to ride around a track with 15+ guys way faster than them, making them have to ride around pulling off to the side 3-4 times a lap. The minor league of moto would be a great thing, and lead to more tracks making money and more moto to watch and follow.
They have their own platform. Please explain how you fill the gates and the stadium by doing what he says. Please explain, please. It costs money to open these stadiums guys. It cost a lot. It isn't free and ticket sales are what pays that expense. Running off the 20-30 guys that fill the gates is not the answer.
Rider entries arenât whatâs renting the stadium man. The TV deal is worth 8M dollars.
The build up to see the 450 class is what makes it exciting
Gypsy: i want a "special" supercross for the lcq boys. haha. i like it
I don't normally fully agree on that 110% rule at first glance, but the more I think about what it stands for, I do. It should be based off qualifying IMHO, to solve the issue I see. I would want the person to at least be ABLE to do a good lap, but if they are not able to ever break out of that 10%, that means they are not quading, or tripling, or whatever, and at that point things get very dangerous
I don't see Jayce forking over money to support a satellite team to fill the gate with premiere guys. "We know roughly who those 44 guys are", well 20 of those guys aren't factory.
Over 20 actually, a lot of main events have 8-10 non-factory guys
Something should be changed about guys that arenât truly there to try and make mains. Seems like some guys have been rolling around in the C group for the past 5 years not getting any better
I love it. give me arena cross Wednesday. Smx Saturday. More racing for me to watch
Honestly Jace is right here.
These comments saying Privateers are the ones filling the gate out, well of course they are. We split up the top talent between two classes. We keep incentivizing riders to stay down instead of moving up to 450s.
RJ is planning on staying down in 250s next year when he could easily move up.
We have so much talent that could be filling the gate out but no, we are afraid of change.
Force 450 teams to field 2-4 bikes at every single race and institute a 250 salary cap.
I like this take, get rid of privateers and make smaller series that people work up to. Like how mx is.
Privateer class the day before, the factory teams can see how they race and pick their future riders from there ,Have a free youtube channel with ads so everyone can watch for free, then use the money from the channel as prize money for the riders. Having an Privateer AMA SX championship to your name would be better than getting 19th or 20th in pro class every year.
Jace loves hearing Jace speak.
Back in the day they somehow managed to run all the amateur races and the night show on the same day. Amateurs started at 6am and were done by noon. Then preliminary
qualifying for the night show followed that. Back then you had to race your way into the night program if you didn't have enough points to transfer through. The top guys didn't
have to show up at the track until around 3pm. They got a couple of true practice sessions in about an hour or so before the heat races. With that system you could have 300 guys
show up and it wouldn't affect the top guys at all.
On the plus side at least we didnât get told about Ju-jitsu this time.
Amen!
This take is shit. There are dudes that have factory level riding capability but don't have the backing yet. Your telling me those guys who have committed everything to be in that spot shouldn't be aloud to be there?!?! Crazy that this is the take. I feel there is an extensive amateur ranks in offroad and mx. If someone is in the top ranks they DESERVE to be there. This isn't women's soccer there are no safe spaces in this sport. If there is a guy w/o factory backing doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be there. Just means he worked his ASS off to be where he is at.
Yeah so I said, there are a group of privateers that should have rides.
Dudes getting lapped and running almost 10 seconds slower donât deserve a factory ride. Be effin foreal dude
ââ@@tylerj9608So you want to see the same 8 guys race for 15 minutes every weekend then go home? I'm sure that makes for great tic Tok clips for the hords with no attention span, but it makes for a shite experience as an actual fan.
We also see privateers beat "factory" riders every week.
I said they donât deserve a factory ride when they canât even come close to the same lap times.
Did you not watch the whole take? He said those riders should still have options just not there, they can build up and get factory rides in another tier, class or promotion then move up to supercross. How many privateers do so well they get a factory ride based on results? There is a dozen different bike companies now, riders have plenty of options to go factory if they are deemed worthy by said teams but no they are still privateer for a reason. The racers we go to watch will benefit greatly from this and the privateers can also by racing in a different place for money instead of paying a shit ton to ride the same track as the people that put people in seats
If you look at Ty masterpool at the outdoors last year, privateer, shows he has the speed and the talent, but needs the backing of a factory team , the equipment you get and the years of experience you will get, will really help with his mental confidence.
Howâs he doing in Supercross?
@@GYPSYTALES how are you doing in supercross?
@@A_Smith94 Why is that relevant? If someone isn't a top pro they aren't allowed to point out objective reality?
@@alondite215 heâs implying Ty isnât good enough to belong in sx and everyone has a right to their own opinion as well as a shot to make it to be pro where else do you get the opportunity to race professionals and learn/grow instead of shooting someone down because of skill?
@@GYPSYTALES he gets really good starts a lot. and training with a factory team and its perks it brings would help his long race game
There's always a pool of riders who show up every weekend that are consistently seconds off of the pace. Most of these dudes ride all week and all day, I don't feel sorry. Yes they're badass on a dirtbike, yes they are fast af, but they show up every weekend to try and race in the show and they consistently CAN'T do that.
this used to be a "us sport" now its a "us and them sport" if you can still honestly call it a sport when it seems to be more of a traveling circus than anything
100% agree. It has to be the elite, no offense meant to the Privateers, we just need to see the elites up there shining. You guys made all the points perfectly. I also want the tracks not dumbed down 8 whoops is lame... I could go on but you guys nailed it.
I took three new fans to the Gillette supercross, today's races are a bit confusing with the different classes and qualifying. It's like is this the race, no there are three qualifiers then the real race. There is drama when factory riders don't make the main and good stories of the struggling rider to finally make the main, that gets lost with new fans. Same thing with outdoors, half the day is qualifying and then an hour lunch break then the races.
Finally what I've been thinking for years....
As a former pro Supercross/Motocross racer... This is the dumbest idea Iâve heard of yet! Jase has obviously put a lot of thought into this however until heâs skilled enough to be on these privateers level he should really zip it. No offense to him... I love the Gypsy podcast but heâs out of line here.
Excuse me, my friend, but please..... offend him. This is absolutely out of line.
have a link to your race results?
WAY OUT of line!
But he's just repeating what the fastest guys in the world think
Such a tough first world life, being at a race track for an entire day. The suffering must be overwhelming.......đđđ
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€ŁđRight on, my man.
I know the core fans donât like this idea but the sport has grown so much in the 20-30 years and itâs time the model needs to grow too. More stars of the sport equals more money.
The model their on needs to revert back.
Huh? So, if there were in fact mor guys to generate this more money you speak of.... where are they?
@@scott729 amen
For the record I love the privateers! But the playing field is so lopsided for them. The Friday night pulp lcq challenge should be an all the time thing. Great racing and great opportunities for riders, sponsors, and the sport.
@j43y first person I have seen mention this... Everyone is so stoked on the Pulp race - which is exactly what I am saying should happen - every weekend lol. Give them their own platform and free up the series to move. I am so sick of hearing people reply to every decent idea about elevating the sport with "but that won't be good for privateers". It's fucking insane.
100% there are insanely fast drivers that never make it to F1. There just needs to be another league. So much time is wasted watching LCQs and qualifying b and c groups who will never ever ever make it in the main and not get lapped not even half way through. There should be a 125 class added and just like F1 you go from super minis to 125 to 250 to 450. Privateers are roadblocking the sport from growing massively. Itâs just a fact.
Not that many people watch minor league baseball... just saying.
100% correct - I donât like the statement âfuck the privateersâ but you explain it so well - I wanna see all 22 riders on the gate all factory riders
That statement was hyperbole. I don't really mean fuck privateers lol.
I agree with the points you guys are making but honestly if youâre going to switch the 250 and 450 heats then go all in and switch the mains to. Have the 250s run the rough track which honestly may be good for them because itâll slow the track down a bit
Freedom taken away when riding for a brand
Couple things that I would like to change in SX and MX are: Get rid of qualification based on fastest time and bring back qualifying races. All too often I see dudes qualify for the big show only to putz around the track like they are on a Sunday drive. The rules could favor the top guys like they do in DH MTB where the top 10 in points have a guaranteed spot in the night show regardless if they have a bike malfunction or mishap in qualifying. Second, if you get lapped, your race is done. At that point you are not "in" the race and you are just riding around. Lastly, Get rid of the production rule and lets see some real factory bikes with exotic parts/materials.
I agree with the point of if a rider isnât close enough like 5 seconds or less on lap times they shouldnât be racing with the elite guys who are. SX needs to change and all Jase is saying is something needs to and just giving ideas on maybe how to start. Im like Jase after the heat races I donât tune back in until the main events. Iâll even not watch the races live so I can fast forward from the heats straight to the main events to skip all the nonsense in between.
My only thing with not having the typical privateers, is what would a new format without privateers look like? Each race leading to the main event is basically a qualifier to whittle down the competition into just 22 riders. The WSX format is cool, but im not sure if it was really perfected, but to be fair i never got to see it in person. There is definitely some logistics and major reforms in the sport needed to make due without the privateers showing up to the racing, but maybe it could be done. I'm still for having privateers, but if there is a convinving case with a full format everything showing that it could work, i'd be interested in witnessing it
Dude, why does every person on here want to change the sport or take things away first it was the 450s or too big now itâs get rid of the privateers. I have not heard anything that is going to change the sport in a positive about more advertisement how about more publicity?
This podcast basically only talks about motocross and Supercross and gets roughly 5 million views a month⊠doing my best to advertise it đ€đŒ
a ton of pros now, were privateers at one point or another
I get where he's coming from. Supercross still has a grassroots aspect to it and it does take away from the legitimacy of the sport compared to other top tier motorsports.
The issue is you would need a massive injection of money and an entire restructuring of the path to the premiere class. It's not likely to happen unless some massive investor decides they want to take a huge gamble on the sport.
F1 has teams that have next to no chance at the podium! Same goes for NASCAR, MotoGPâŠ
If F1 is legit, then we need to stay as far away from âlegitâ as possible. That dumpster fire is not what our sport should be trying to reach.
Really would be curious how much arena cross top 3 would be in average payout and what positions in SX would that amount to
There will be 10 factory teams within the 450 class now that Triumph, Ducati, and Beta are entering the 450 class. I totally agree that there needs to be a format change to allow the B group riders their spotlight too.
Super sad take. I get what youâre getting at, but I think the beautiful thing about the sport is you can be working at a car dealership or be a plumber, buy a bike, and go have a shot to race Eli Tomac if youâre good enough. Those stories make the sport so cool and fun to follow. At least for me. Especially with growing social media presence like Logan Karnow, itâs so much fun to watch these dudes battle it out to make the big show. And I love being in the pits and meeting them all at races. Theyâre all super personable and make time for fans.
I was conflicted at first but you persuaded me by the end. Look at fmx, the guys that donât want to double flip and front flip in contests have moved to free ride, real moto video parts, etc. there can be other avenues on the racing side too. If the big fmx contests were the only option we wouldnât have the axells and Tylerâs of that side of riding. Stank dog literally waxed every top pro before at straight rhythm. That could be a series in itself
Iâve always said this same thing, yeah everyone deserves a shot and blah blah blah⊠but this is the big leagues, we donât need guys that are 6 seconds a lap off pace rolling around the track by lap 3 when the top racers are in a title fight. There should be a âsuper licenseâ where you need to be a current amateur champion in order to race in supercross. If you donât score points that year you need to go back and earn your spot. These are the best in the world, we shouldnât have local fast guys out there trying to qualify when they couldnât hold a candle to top 5 B class at Lorettaâs
What is stopping guys like Logan karnow from racing arenacross? Plenty of privateer guys race it and make money.
Once Ducati comes In and if Suzuki comes back fully that's 10 factory trams if each have 2 450 riders thats 20 factory rides on the gate that's going to be so cool
Golf clap. Privateers can go pound sand.
Everybody on here thinks Jase is saying to can the privateers from the sport... Watch to the whole damn video! He doesn't want to get rid of privateers at all! He wants to give them another platform to perform on and showcase their skills with more people on their level. They would probably make a shit ton more money and have a crap ton more support. Hell, maybe even some factory teams would start popping up in what I'll call the "supercross minor league" for now.
Run the AMA Arenacross series on Friday nights in the same city as SX like they did in Daytona. Run a highlight segment during SX Race Day Live and give it a mention during the night show broadcast. Treat it like a support series as an alternate way into SX just as Futures is becoming the primary way into SX.
Then there has to be a relegation system top 3 of arena cross take a spot on a factory team bottom 3 super cross go down
Smx should be for non factory riders only
Privateers are the very economic backbone of Moto. The top 10 riders would not have a factory sponsor with out the full privateer network supporting the brands used at a local level. What an absolute dangerous conversation this was who have no idea how an industry is carried. Just more talking heads that have no idea what goes into selling Moto.
The industry is carried by normal people who ride bikes. Not having 120 bikes try race a Supercross lol.
@@GYPSYTALES agreed. It goes hand n hand. Most privateers are normal weekend warriors to your point which go through local shops for engine work, suspension work, tires, oils, bikes, OEM parts. Moto is very fragile to even consider cutting the privateers out of the big show. Most young riders donât just look up to the big 10, they look up to the local pro and want to go watch them just as much. This is not auto racing, this is moto, when we start respecting the greatness of everyone allowed to go after the dreams, thatâs how we grow the sport.
@@GYPSYTALES I want to examine these numbers, gypsy. 120 bikes, has never, NEVER, happened in a single class in the last 25+ years (excluding Daytona, as Florida privateers swamp that race), probably longer on the years into the 80s. So 120 is a fairly accurate count combined, 60 and 60 for each class. That is actually pretty rare, go look at the numbers for this year it is probably more so averaged at 50 and 50 or less. So you are saying you want to cut how many of these riders from each class? Do you want 2, 20 rider heat races? If so be careful on the wiggle room because of injuries. If you don't want 2, 20 rider heat races, what is a better format? All i'm saying is the privateer count really isn't a problem, and eliminating them in whatever barbaric way you would try to do so would be a net loss across the board. If the numbers were ACTUALLY 120/120, i'd completely agree with you that there should be something controlling those numbers. But thankfully there are a good number of professional and pro am series' going on that many riders take advantage of.
What i'm trying to say is that you have good points and solutions to a problem that really doesn't exist.
Simply do an A and B main. Heat Qualifying time position dictates where you get put. 12 laps final for each main.
I went to my first big race this weekend in Denver. I spent a lot of time in the big event world and was really impressed with the fan experience. However, it seemed about half the riders weren't even in the game and it got challenging to follow the stars that the event uber promoted. Otherwise, I thought the event was cool and definitely worth the money I spent
I agree 100% with you. Need to take notes from F1.
I am only a spectator but I would like to see the main event have less riders in general like 16 riders tops. đŻâđ€đ€
The privateers just need to be given a team
Only problem with that is you could do really good in AX, but suck in SX or you could suck at AX, but do good at SX. I think itâd be cool to do SX in college football stadiums and you can earn your spot to race the top tier sx
Ooo I got a good one. You have to qualify through arena x to get into AMA super cross for people not signed to a named team, if someone injures themself next guy down the line replaces them.
This will also help build up and expand arena x đ§đ§
Thankyou Gypsy! I agree 100% with you! Areana cross could be for the smaller teams and the futures class and the big supercross teams can use them as fill in for mandatory 4 250 riders 2 450 riders. CHANGE IS OK IF DONE PROPERLY!!!
I agree on this take.
HoweverâŠone would need their head examined if theyâre buying a bike based upon Supercross Resultsđ€·đœââïžđđđ
Iâd say outdoors, MX/MXGP and âoff-road Grand Prix and enduro racing results kind of set tone on bike sale popularity.
2. A BIGGER ARENA CROSS LEAGUE, would be instrumental in not only the popularity of the sport growing but simultaneously catching talent that slips through without notice, because letâs be honest Iâve seen some average kids (fairly fast but not blazing) go play around on our local SX/arena-x track and absolutely be a total ripper, Ala better timing, quick directional balance, comfortable in rhythmâŠ
That kid who NEEDS a trainer for MX would probably get help if they knew he already had a natural affinity for SX.
Letâs keep this conversation alive
That would not be possible in our sport because of the danger. For example last year when there were only 5 factory riders in the 450 class. The races would not work with 5 guys in the premier class.
I've been thinking something like this for a while, maybe we could follow the WSL (World Surf League) set up and have a Championship Tour (CT) and a Qualifier series (QS).. Have a 'fast 40' in each class that is set at the start of the year that follow the CT but have a secondary series where you can qualify for next years fast 40.. Maybe the bottom 10 from each class of the CT gets replaced by the top 10 of the QS or something along those lines.. If it's anything like surfing the QS will get a bit of a following on it's own and the top guys will end up earning more than they would not being seen not qualifying every round as it is..
I think there should be like a B main, a main event for the guys that don't make the main event. Almost like minor league racers.
This has got to be the dumbest shit Iâve heard in the history of SX bench racing! I could damn near write a book on all the reasons itâs such a bad idea. But letâs just name a fewâŠ
#1 Max Anstie wouldnât have got his win last weekend!
#2 the 450 class wouldnât have a full gate .. let alone by the time mid season comes around and half the field is injured!
#3 how is anyone supposed to learn to race a SX track and earn a factory ride when they donât have a SX track to race on so they can get better? All while the factory guys are racing SX, getting better and more SX racing experience?
#4 if they go through AX, how many guys have you seen dominate AX and do nothing in SX?
#5 didnât they develop the SX futures program to gain that SX experience??
Like I said, I can go on and on!
There are a few easy solutions to lapped riders. Comms, linked to the riders mechanic and/or AMA officials only to notify riders theyâre being lapped by the leaders is just one of them
Heâs not talking about guys like Anstie. Anstie isnât a privateer, heâs on a real team. Not saying I agree but thatâs not the point being made in the video. Also to play devilâs advocate, not having a full gate doesnât really affect the racing cause the gate fillers get lapped multiple times and just become road blocks for the factory riders
@@chrisclifford4109 anstie has said it more than once .. they are a privateer team. But Anstie is the only guy. How about when dean wilson bought a couple bikes and rode the first 5 rounds on his own dime till husky picked him up? Stuff like that would never happen again. Plus lappers have always beena part of MX/SX. Sure they can change the outcome of a race but thatâs why comms would be a good thing
You fully didnât listen to what I said if this is your reply.
@@GYPSYTALES I did not. Unfortunately my neighbor started running his blower and I couldnât hear for a couple minutes so I turned it off. But what I did hear as well as what the caption says is âthey need to go .. we donât need themâ. Iâll go back and finish listening tho if thatâs not what you really meant then I apologize. But I stand by my comment based off what I did hear. Anyway, been a big fan for years! Bummed to hear you hung it up .. but like they say, all good things come to an end at some point đ€
@@GYPSYTALESwell I stand by my comment. I will add something tho. If you take all the privateers out and tell the factory teams they have to have 2 riders no matter what and that gives the privateers a factory spot .. that doesnât make the privateer 10% faster đ€·ââïž theyâre still gonna be a lot slower than ET3 and JL18 etc. Also, we all know the AMA isnât gonna put that much time and money into making a series for privateers. Sorry man but I just completely disagree on this one. I do think they should lower the cutoff for entries and if you get lapped twice or youâre seen rolling the track youâre out. And if they start the night show a little earlier it could give them more time to prep the track better for the main. I just think there is a lot more that can be done without 86ing guys who are trying to compete with the best. If you donât race guys faster than you, youâre gonna hit a plateau way before you reach your potential
This is a great take I donât understand the hate. The top stars do carry the sport, 95% of people or more do not care one bit about b guys.
We need in ear communication at a minimum for race situations ie. red cross, yellow flags. Later on down the track we can push/test for team rider communication for entertainment purposes like F1 does.
If a rider goes 2 laps down, black flag. At that point they are just in the way đ€·ââïž
Even a guy like Justin Starling, seems like a great guy; does anyone care if he gets 15th, or if he even makes it? I dunno man
-Arenacross: Rockstar Energy Drink title sponsor, Bell Helmets, Samsung, Ford
Pro E Bike
Pro B Group 250 and 450 (top 5 in points in each class get qualifying spots in smx playoffs)
Future Stars B 250 (top 7 get qualifying spots at smx Future Stars races)
Kids Husky 50 (each round winner gets invited to the smx season ender that will host a kids 50 race)
-Supercross: Monster Energy Drink title sponsor, Alpinestars, Apple, Chevy
Pro A Group 250 and 450 (top 15 in each class qualify to race for smx round openings during the Motocross season)
Future Stars A 250 (top 13 get qualifying spots at smx Future Stars races)
Kids Kawasaki 50 (each round winner gets invited to the smx season ender that will host a kids 50 race)
Motocross: Redbull Energy Drink title sponsor, Fox, Verizon, Dodge
Pro Group A/B 250 and 450 (top 15 make it to the smx playoff rounds, 16-25 get lcq spots at smx rounds
Future Stars Group A/B 250 (top 13 make it to the smx playoff rounds, 16-20 get lcq spots at smx rounds)
Kids KTM 110
Hereâs how you contradict this. How about put the top rider the ones âcarrying the sportâ on privateer bikes n see whoâs who
Oh if they are so top tier lil traffic shouldnât bother em to much
Ken Roczen in on a 2015 Suzuki bud...
I think the sport does need to change in order to grow. I love watching & rooting for privateers, like Masterpool, and would love to see a path for someone like him to still have an opportunity to get in.
My problem with this is if each manufacturer like you say will have 2 riders and that will equal 20 riders in 2026. This sport is not easy enough for that to be a viable option. Look at how many 250/450 factory riders weâve lost this year that are out with injury. Whatâs you opinion or viable option when 6 riders are out 5 rounds in , & now thereâs only 16riders in 450 & 17 in 250. (Example)
Thatâs what Iâm saying. If manufacture must have 2 riders at EVERY race, there would need to be back up riders.
I love how the media dangles the âgrow the sport carrotâ in front of the newer fans. Itâs free cookie points and makes you seem like youâre a knight in shining armor advocating for these genius changes. Meanwhile you know damn well Feld doesnât give a FUCK, they just want to minimize costs and maximize profit from the SX asset because all itâs designed to do is market the OEMâs. Thatâs literally it. You want SX to grow and be like F1 and MotoGP? It has to leave Feldâs hands. There is NO OTHER WAY.
Getting really tires off lappers getting in the way of a battle. Give the privateers a class they have to win their way out of and then they get to go into the main show
And I know it has to hurt especially when the very riders he talking about would stomp a mud hole in him literally 140 second gap on a heat race. Feels bad
If you have your pro license you should be able to line up
Yeah I agree 100%. Supercross isnât what it used to be.
I canât believe this everybody hates this take so much.
Bro, Iâve been thinking. What about dropping East and West for 250âs? 17 rounds for 250âs. Most are on big teams making money, can the teams afford it? every year thereâs only 3 or 4 guys that can win, I would rather see 8-10 guys with a chance to win. Thoughts?
The only thing I didn't like about the 450s going first was the last chance races need to be swapped around so that the guys that were in the 250 LCQ had some time between the LCQ and the race. Other than that it's great!
Completely agree when I go to supercross I leave the stands when 450 A and 250 B ainât practicing i fast forward all the lcq and so do all of you
OK first I agree with you guys about the LCQ. But how many of those LCQ riders are locals that have thousands of people sitting in the stands just to watch the local nephew are cousin or neighbor so I have a different approach. What are we added another 2025 minutes. The time between the LCQ and the 451st heat. And you had the voice of supercross announcing that during this time, the track will be going through a little prep work and you can go to the concession stands and get a buy one. Get one free for your family. But I want hot dog but one hamburger touche. Search Coke price, get one free and that these T-shirt pack sweat shirts. Sales are now 20 or 30% off. Maybe even more than 20% up. Should I get the light so you don't lose that much money? But what you're selling? You locals get to see their they're neighbors, family race, and the tracks. It's little prep to private Turkey. Gets a little more in between time. Stadium makes money on concessions and supercross. Makes money on sales of slag I don't know. Sometimes you easiest things are easy.