Professor Avi Shlaim | This House Would Pressurise Israel to Exchange Land for Peace
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2023
- Professor Avi Shlaim speaks as First Proposition speaker to the motion on 4th May 2023 at 7:30 in the Debating Chamber.
This debate will be examining Israel's military and settler presence since 1967 in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. In the wake of an especially violent year in the West Bank and the recent election of an Israeli government particularly committed to the retention and settlement of these territories, engaging with this enduring conflict is particularly vital. We will examine whether there should be more pressure on Israel to give up control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and if doing so now is a crucial step towards lasting peace.
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Thumbnail Photographer: William Blakesley-Herbert
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Professor Avi Shlaim - Avi Shlaim is an Emeritus Professor of International Relations at the university of Oxford and a Fellow of the British Academy. His books include 'Collusion across the Jordan: King Abdullah, 'the Zionist Movement, and the Partition of Palestine; The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World; Lion of Jordan: The Life of King Hussein in War and Peace' and most recently 'Three Worlds: Memoir of an Arab-Jew'.
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I'm surprised that a distinguished professor at the preeminent Oxford University does not seem to know the meaning of Apartheid. Maybe I shouldn't be because the case brought before the International Court of Justice by S Africa also accuses Israel of Apartheid. And then I ask myself whether it is FAKE NEWS/INFO, that over TWO million of Israeli citizens are ARAB. They have the same rights as their fellow Jewish citizens. They vote, they occupy positions in governance structures, they are in the army etc. They enjoy freedoms and rights that at this time, none of their ethnic cousins in the Middle East and Africa have.
The only eminent component to this man is his full head of white hair which is clearly blocking his brain.
Those are Arab Israelis not Palestinians israel apartheid is very obvious in the occupied territories, The West Bank is the clearest example of Israeli apartheid. 700,000 Jewish settlers with full civil rights, freedom of movement. 2 million Muslims and Christians living next to them with no civil rights, who can't build without Israeli permission, subject to checkpoints, surveillance, curfews, military raids, kidnappings, demolitions, living under Israeli military law, taxes collected by Israel but no civil rights. That is textbook apartheid.
Jerusalem system of residency for Muslims and Christians is also apartheid. Top human rights groups like amnesty international,human rights watch and even Israeli human rights organisations like b’tselem, yesh din and giva access have said Israel is an apartheid state
@@hashimabdullahi34 You are comparing Israeli citizens to non-citizens. Arab Israeli citizens have every right that a Jewish citizen has. Palestinian territories have their own governance which completely excludes Israelis as they aren't governed under the same leadership. Most palestinian Arabs are extremely opposed to becoming Israeli citizens to gain equal rights. Furthermore Jewish people aren't even allowed to enter into any palestinian territory, that's the apartheid. In Israel proper there are many Arab citizens that vote in elections and can go everywhere a Jewish Israeli citizen can go AND MORE.
@@hashimabdullahi34 Jews in Israel also cannot build without Israeli permission. Nobody can, regardless of their heritage or religion.
And Hamas are not 3 people in Gaza
They are the Palestinians
No one has ever explained to me how a country can illegally occupy a territory that it has been given legal rights to have.
Is there a higher legal authority than The international body that formed the state of Israel?
It seems the only land that could possibly be contested is the land that Israel Claimed after defeating the invading army.
There is no pre-existing Palestinian state. Israel with crafted out of the Palestinian mandate which was previously the Ottoman Empire which no longer exists. Why is this complicated?
Because they were poeple who leaved there with there homes were kicked from who don't identify them selves as israeli... Why so complicated ?
Abi, why catholic and democracy go ok together as well Muslim and democratic and not Jewish and democratic?
Is this guy living in a vacuum? It's like he has never read any of the history, or lived it, and is completely clueless about what is actually happening in real time. 🤦♂️
Well... That ship has sailed for sure now. The Oslo accords and the ceding of Gaza was in the hopes of peace. It is now evident that the only thing the AP or HAMAS wants is everything, so this is over. Palestinians lost everything in 1947, now it is time to understand this.
The Arabs have refused every offer of a two state solution. Abbas was offered 97% of everything he wanted then walked. Never looking back or making a counter offer. He went to the talks with no intention of agreeing to anything. He did so to satisfy the left wing antisemites in Europe whose governments have given billions to him and his friends. Little of it going to the Palestinian people,of course.
This video has PRESSURISE in the title. Pressure, yes, but how can it be pressurised?
verb: pressurise
2. BRITISH
attempt to persuade or coerce (someone) into doing something.
Well, the West could start by not providing political, financial, or military support for the apartheid state.
@@justin79811 If you're a 90s/00s football commentator (or equivalent) maybe. It used to be pressured.
Seek absolute unbiased objective Truth and Justice to prevail…peace is best ☮️
Anger turns to hate leads to Death 💀
What a pity the west is without honour
lol unlike the Arabs who are such honorary people with their 1300 years of slaves, imperialist wars, terror, misogyny and what ever else.
Hahahahahaha!😂😂😂😂😂LMAO
The west is the seat of honour. Not the muffin east which is based on Islamist religion not liberal principles. Thus is why Islamist states treat women, blacks, gays etc as second class.
Why did Arafat not respond to israeli offers of land ?
why did Israel steal the land?
Israel never stole anything. When Arabs lose wars of aggression they also get to lose any land lost in combat.
There are consequences for starting wars. @@omarashour7459
Do you own land? Would you accept loosing 78% in defiance of international law
@@jacobjorgenson9285 This is a wide misconception. There is not a single piece of international law that grants the Palestinians a right to either Gaza or the West Bank.
The 1967 UN resolution defining possible two state borders was made under Chapter VI of the UN charter. The language of which does not allow for binding decisions. All other peace deals have been rejected so there is no treaty or any other piece of international law that grants them a right to that land
@@omarashour7459 There are great videos on the Israeli side of the conflict by Ben Shapiro and Travelingisrael. I have yet to find a good one for the Palestinian side bar some propaganda videos by Vox and the like
"Its a good idea."
I thought that was why he referred to the icc at the end.
My "air"line wishes everyone a safe landing. 😘
I have a question, in the Iraqi Israel war did the Iraqi Arab jew join the Iraqi army against Israel? I hope you answer it in your future interviews
There are no Arabe Jews ! And there are no more Iraqi Jews, they had to flee to avoid extermination.
@I will also add to ur knowledge that there were also Palestinians Jews.
Where there even any Iraqi-Jews left to join? I'm pretty sure nearly all of them had to escape in the 50's due to the massive persecution and violence against them
@@DanielS-zq2rris it? Of course it's not. Israel engaged in false flag operations against Iraq, Egypt and Morocco to frighten Jews there to migrate to Israel. Some were captured
@@DanielS-zq2rr like if there was a war between USA and Israel? I guess they will join Israel over their own country!!
Sorry, but the ship called "Land for Peace" has sailed. It has been tried and has been an unmitigated failure. Try something else.
Not on topic
@@andreskorge1828
No surprise to you, but I disagree.
Are you speaking about Pakistan?
To put forward these ideas at a time when Jews are under attack and antisemitism has not been higher since the 1930 and 40's is a disgrace. When he was asked if 57 Muslim states could be both Muslim and Democratic he answered yes. But one Jewish state could not be, even though 20% of it's population are not Jewish and have the same rights as it's Jewish population. If he can point to a partner to peace from the Palestinian side then that would be more useful then blaming Israel which has tried repeatedly to make a peace deal.
But none of the offers by Israel would give Palestinians a full sovereign state.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Can't wait for our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ (Yeshua Hamashiach) - the JEWISH MESSIAH to return to Israel.
Lets read what's in the Bible:
1 Chronicles 16:13-22 KJV - O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
Saying, Unto thee will I give the LAND OF CANAAN, the lot of YOUR INHERITANCE; When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.
And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people;
He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. ❤ 🇮🇱 🇬🇧 🇮🇳
And then don’t 2/3 of Jews go to hell…like a portal for Christians ??
☮️💔🇮🇱♟🇵🇸💔☮️
I agree with Johnserwanga1541 with ASmall additional comment. He said that you have a Democratic Islamic state. Islam is the only religion we know of, which is also the ruling political party in any place it is the majority. So you cannot have a Democratic Islamic state that is, in fact, an oxymoron. Also, Israel is a secular state with a Jewish majority, not even a Hebrew majority, as most are not practicing Jews. Shame on Oxford for having such a stupid and inept individual teaching students and a highly respected university! I realize I am a hypocrite since, in the United States, we have a similar person teaching students at Harvard. Sorry about that.
I feel like I could listen to him for hours.
What to fall asleep to?
@@kingfillins4117 Lol. I had to speed it up and struggled to find any substance.
Doesn't appear the Palestinians ever wanted peace. This guy is delusional.
True! Palestinians wanted their basic human rights to live and prosper.
Just imagine that your neighbour took over your house and forced your family to stay in one of rooms under their 24/7 surveillance. In addition to that, they also control the food, water and electricity supplies. If you or family member want to move to another room must get their permissions but they will always refuse. So, under this circumstance, hope you and your families only ask for “PEACE” instead of fighting for your property rights and human rights……..especially this “your PEACE”, in another words is that your “OBEDIENCE”, is the pre-condition of any equal negotiations.
@@lisashung9442 I'm done writing essays detailing the history of the conflict, there are great videos going over this. Do everyone a favor and educate yourself instead of parroting the ridiculous analogy that is a mockery of how it went down
@@Bladieblah Good for you but it doesn’t mean your essay is credible to me…….Israel definitely has its own version of the scripted history already just like British has its version of colonial history…….
Doesn’t appear the Israelis ever wanted peace which based on the equal rights of living in the land between the Israelis and the Palestinians? No!
This fellow is part of the problem behind the dumbing down of youth. His argument is sophist and relies on an ignorance of history. It is a dated viewpoint that does not recognize the danger.
Seriously! How on earth can he say that Israel has not traded land for peace when they returned Golan Heights and Sinai after rightfully winning them!
@@benb6527 It is best to not argue with them over anything. It gives them standing when they are recognized. When they make an invalid point, and it gets attention, some idiot will believe them no matter how logical your answer is. Every argument they make is bogus; and the smarter of them know it. A fair-minded person generally believes that a fool can be educated, convinced, and brought to a rational point. This is never the case. It does not just apply to terorists and their supporters and apologists.
@@benb6527 Israel is still occupying the Golan Heights. From what I've read, they don't intend to leave it because of its strategic importance.
Thank you Prof. Slaim,
How would you prevent the endless barrage of improvised explosives,
and terror attacks Israelli's have to contend with on a daily basis?
In order to make peace, both sides must first trust each other after all.
Yes 👍
Try work toward trust
It is a choice-from 🇿🇦
Fundamental issue with the speech (the claim of apartheid) seems to be the mischaracterisation of Arabs in Gaza and the WB as if they are Israelis... they specifically opted not to be citizens of Israel in 1947/8.They're under separate governance, so have no rights in Israel, in the same sense that Israelis have no rights in Gaza or the WB (PA areas).
Actual Israeli Arabs (who comprise 20pc of the population) have the same rights as Jews in Israel and that was enshrined in Israel's declaration of independence (rejected by the Arabs ofc).
The asymmetry of power arises from Israel having a superior culture/values to the surrounding states. Jordan was a state given to the Arabs just a couple of years prior to Israel's modern creation, yet Israel's GDP per capita is 10x Jordan's and every other state that borders it (all Muslim states). Israelis built that, they didn't steal it from anybody.
Israel should ignore UN resolutions... they are decided by majority votes... there is one Jewish state, there are tens of Muslim states. Furthermore, the LoN/UN is the one that voted (by a significant majority) for the Partition/formation of Israel in the first place (by a substantial majority)... it was the Arabs/Muslims who rejected that, even though more than half the land designated for Israel was the Negev desert.
Both the US and UK governments supported apartheid South Africa, it was the public that boycotted goods and companies that started the ball rolling. Don't buy Israeli goods and don't use companies that trade with/in Israel.
👌from 🇿🇦
Lets read what's in the Bible regarding the return of THE JEWISH MESSIAH Lord Jesus Christ.
Joel 3:2 KJV - I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Well said Sir
What an honorable and principled man. Inspirational!
It's not time to pressure Israel it's time to prosecute this government
Really? This government was democratically elected.
AVI, thanks a great beginning!!
Well done Avi , brilliant speach and thankyou
Prof Shlaim says it perfectly - amazing speaker.
Hat off to Prof. Shlaim!
There is no fool like an old fool, and this fool is a perfect example of an old fool.
Elaborate please
@@andreskorge1828 1-a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.
verb
verb: fool; 3rd person present: fools; past tense: fooled; past participle: fooled; gerund or present participle: fooling
trick or deceive (someone); dupe.
"he fooled nightclub managers into believing he was a successful businessman".
This professor obviously doesn't know the real facts and is a confused biased person.
Almost 50 countries in the UN have sharia as basis of their rule but only israel is a racist state - a tenured professor in Oxford 🙏🏼🫡
While I agree with many of his points, statements like above make me wonder if he’s genuine or just another israel hater
Perhaps you've totally misunderstood the definition of Shariah, Racism and Talmud. And the political status of so called Islamic Republics.
@@KitaalFisabilillah I know that israel has more rights and protection of its minority than afghanistan, pakistan, iran and saudi offer to their minority. So sharia or not, if Israel is apartheid, then even these countries are apartheid. Shlaim doesn't say that. He said israel is the ONLY apartheid state and that is what I took objection to
Yes but are they considered a democracy have all their citizens the right to vote and worship and express political opinions right of association and freedom to come and go and self determination probably not. The discussion here is about Israel being or not a democracy because of their support for their apartheid regime.
@@blacksnow129 Yes, but shlaim made a blanket statement that israel is the only apartheid state in all of UN. That is absurd
It could be one of the few apartheid states in UN but not the only, by any means
I think the statement is more like it is the only country we in the west consider democratic that in fact is an apartheid state. There are so many country who hold elections but we know they are hold under duress or are corrupted or prevent group of people from reaching the ballot box, but we see Israel as not doing that and refuse to see the elephant in the room. The fact that Palestinians are controlled by Israel in every aspects of their life do not have a citizenship as such cannot travel etc... so either they are part of Israel or they are not and should have the right to self determination in any instances Israel falls short on the democratic arena.@@Anp562
he is wrong is very lost
Explain or avoid
Truth
Palestine belongs to whom:
1. With out justice peace can not be restored in the Palestine . Justice is only the solution to Palestine crisis. But culprits never accept justice. They only want compromise.
2. Muslims can not hand over Al aqsa mosque and Holy land to those who killed and cheated the prophets ( as per old and new testament). They have no rights to claim the sacred places. But they can perform their prayers as per agreement arranged by second Caliph Umer (RA) in 636 AD.
3. The old and new testament inducing anti-Semitism violence by speaking about atrocities committed by Jews against prophets.
4. Palestine land always belongs to those race who lived before Jews arrived from Egypt ( under the leadership of Musa PBUH)
That race is Palestinians. Religion wise, they are muslims
Before the Jews there were the Canaanites, they are no longer around today so nobody can claim the land in their name. They have no culture, they have mixed and ended up being other peoples that ARE still around today.
The Jews are the indigenous people of the land. Palestinian identity only emerged in the late 1800's, they have no history or ancient ties to the land. They are a remnant of different arab groups who have lived there since after the Arab invasion of the area around 700 CE
This guy is delusional
Expound please
I did not know that recounting the truth is a new form of delusion. Has it come into the new ICD classification?
Israelis are natives not colonizers. Palestinians didn't exist before 1948.
?…..expound on your knowledge please
1964, created by the KGB. Before that they just called themselves Muslim Arabs.
Juste Saw few day s ago of thé Palestinian Gigi hadid father who have been kicked from his house with other 700 000 Palestinian during thé nakba
All Israeli prime ministers changed their surnames to hide their European roots .
A shameful Jew...
Natasha is much better
Long live Israel. Citizens and residents don’t have equal rights in many democratic countries. Israel has every right to decide who it lets in or allows as citizens.
ISREAL does NOT occupy Gaza
Westbank is owned by ISREAL and Palestinian territory
Israel is NOT apartheid
This is nonsense
The UN and ICJ do not agree with your opinion.
Ha ha ha ha the UN voted by all the joke non democratic nations of Islamic countries Lebanon Iran and Qatar and others - the bastions of human rights