Hawkeye's Fatal Flaw | Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes vs. MCU
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- Clint Barton, aka Hawkeye, is a classic comic-book hero and a longstanding member of the Avengers. In this video, I compare the two major depictions of this character from the last decade, the one portrayed by Jeremy Renner in such MCU/Marvel films as Civil War, Avengers, and Endgame, as well as Chris Cox's version from Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. I argue that these two characters are fundamentally the same person, differentiated mainly by one key point of divergence - a flaw both versions struggle with but MCU Hawkeye was able to defeat far earlier than his animated counterpart.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:28 The Major Differences
3:16 MCU Hawkeye - Grounding the Heroes
5:25 EMH Hawkeye - Insecurity
8:29 Family and Acceptance
10:22 Will This Change?
#hawkeye #marvel #savetheyostverse - Zábava
Hello all! To be clear, I went into this one with the intention of writing solely about EMH’s Hawkeye. But as I got close to what I felt made that character tick I felt an effective way to bring this out would be through contrast with the MCU’s version of the character - who almost acts as a sort of thematic foil to EMH Clint. I’m happy with the way it turned out, though! (And this’ll be the last time I talk about the MCU in any substantial way until December - pending any real bombshells in the Hawkeye show’s premiere)
Hey, do you have any recommended reading from any of the Marvel books?
I feel like MCU Hawkeye just get no screen time and no love therefore no one likes or cares about him, there aren't many cases where he saves the day, I think that hurts him and make him look like the stupidest avenger and sad we'll probably never see him save the day over the avengers(not when he's beating up some gangs but when the avengers are in trouble and he saves them or help them big time)
@@pokezod7832 To be fair, until the 80s even the comic writers saw him as the lamest Avenger. He didn't get much respect until the Mark Gruenwald miniseries where he met Mockingbird.
Hawkeye EMH has formed my perception of who Hawkeye is. He’s a smartass with a heart of gold, Hawkeye in Civil War is the closest we’ve got and is my favorite appearance of him. “I retire for like 5 minutes and it all goes to shit”
A single episode of EMH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>10+ years of the MCU
plus the banger theme song still slaps
I've got good news about the TV show...
Agreed honestly when the mcu movies came out i always compared them to these versions in EMH who i consider the high bar of how to do the characters.
Nah the closest we got to a full fledged Hawkeye were the first 2 Avenger movies
@@yeshuamcfly1154 what?
Hulk and Hawkeye had the best bromance in the cartoon series. They started hating each other, to working to together, to becoming friends, to becoming best friends, to not leaving each others side. Story telling people!! Story telling at it's finest.
I always liked Panther and Hawkeye's relationship.
Which cartoon?
@@jaredhenderson7756 Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
So like Thor’s and hulk relationship In the mcu
@@to3sted248 no
Hawkeye in the MCU feels like Hawkeye running on borrowed time. In the comics we meet him and he’s young and brash but when we meet him in the MCU it almost feels like we’re meeting him at the tail end of his story and it keeps getting extended. From a man who is just doing his job to provide for his family, to a man who’s tired of his killer life and past, to losing the only thing that keeps him grounded and sending him into a fury of murder and revenge. I think it’s good to see Hawkeye change and I hope the show itself makes him into the broken family man who wants to be at peace.
That seems to be what they were going for the Hawkeye series.
Hawkeye has been trying to retire since the end of age of ultron
Honestly I don't understand why Hawkeye is so underrated at a character, he's a classic underdog story, and if rocky has taught us anything, we as consumers love those kinds of stories
Not when he’s surrounded by cooler, stronger superheroes. Hawkeye’s theme is boring, his costume is boring, his personality is boring. (For the casual audience)
Ngl I think the main reason most of the Avengers outshine him is because they all have more interesting rouges galleries and adjacent characters. Hawkeye is a sick character but doesn't have a lot of other interesting characters directly associated with him.
Heck I think that goes for most superhero comics in general. Batman and Spiderman have vast, interesting rouges galleries that are easily recognisable and well known, which is a big part of what makes them the most popular DC and Marvel Heroes respectively. Meanwhile characters like Hawkeye or Martian Manhunter who don't have as many dedicated side characters associated with them don't get the attention they deserve.
I think ironically he got overshadowed by Star Lord who doesnt even really have a particular skill or is good at things, making him a lot more relatable. Plus he got his own two movies worth of character development.
@@daffcicle8809 I can only think of Black Widow, Taskmaster, that jumper guy Balroc or whatever, and maybe Hydra.
The one thing I like about MCU's Clint is he has what most of his teammates, and most syperheroes, doesn't have: a family of his own. A support system that he can go to at the end of every missions or retirement. Stark has Pepper and maybe Happy, but when Morgan was in the picture, he seemed to be his most peaceful. Thor's family is dysfunctional, Cap has Bucky, but that was tainted by Hydra. Hulk and Nat are still in muddy waters. That's why when Clint lost his family, you can understand him in a bit.
That's how CW's Flash should do for their "family" thing and what they unfortunately did not do to Ollie and Dinah.
Clint was definitely the most human out of the OG 6
Clint and Hulk laughing at Tony getting his ass handed to him by Steve in a boxing match is one of my favourite moments in the show
Tony would obliterate Steve within 5 seconds without any effort with his armor.
No difficulty.
@@nahulseyon997 not really. Not even close.
@@Qaosbringer
Yeah really, I like Cap, but he is written with a lot of PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity)
Iron Man fought an angry Thor and lived to talk about it, he fought Thanos and even put up a fight as valiant as it was.
Cap physically should have no chance against Iron Man with any suit, he is superhuman, not invunerable or invincible. The suit is literal Power Amour that can move at Mach 2 and with enough explosive yield, enough to bring down a fucking building.
If were gonna use power scaling, Cap does not have a chance against Tony in the suit.
That is one of the best momants.
@@samueljones3668 iron man Fighting Thor is plot armor itself y’all always talk about cap but when iron man does something similar they start saying it’s awesome just saying not mad
I think a big part of Hawk Eye's insecurity in EMH is how much he had to work for everything his life, how much he had to prove himself to others, all the way back in his background, this is true (both his time as a member of the Circus of Crime and working for Fury as an agent of SHIELD, Ringmaster didn't like having people that weren't useful to him and Fury straight-up tells people if they don't have the ability to pull their own weight then he is done with them); and being with the Avengers more or less exhaserbates this condition, they're all people that have had things given to them, either as some sort f legacy like with Iron Man, Thor, and Black Panther or someone took an interest in something they were were working on like Ant-Man (it is implied that Fury and S.H.I.E.D. took the time to sink funding and resources into the development of Ant-Man's technology, hence why he is working with them early on into the series and why the Big House is on the Hellicarrier) or were given to them by someone like Captain America or were given to them by some sort of accident like with the Hulk and Ms. Marvel. To Clint, he's the only real normal person there, and his snarky demeanor is his way of covering up his insecurities so he won't be seen as a detriment to the people he's working with. Widow's betrayal played a part in that as well, and it cut deeper because he saw her as being someone very much like him, an ordinary person with a terrible past that forced her into becoming the incredibly capable person she was.
Maybe Clint saw Natasha betraying him as not just a betrayal of him as a person but also a betrayal of his sense of ethics and morality, he thought she was a good person that had worked hard to become that way as a way of leaving her terrible past behind her, something he was trying to do with S.H.I.E.L.D. and later the Avengers, but Widow's betrayal of him hit so hard because it meant his own ability to genuinely and accurately judge others had been flawed or compromised, if not a betrayal of himself.
Some very good points!
@@PillarofGarbage I'm just glad someone remembers that Hawkeye had a less than heroic background in the comics
@@PillarofGarbage And I think we some some of those same point in the MCU, just not as extensively as we see in EMH.
Honestly, you could probably do a whole series of videos on the insecurities of the Avengers in EMH and how they cope with them.
@@MTV2O2O I like the way they worked it into EMH - he’s not really a villain, but he’s mistakenly treated as one to start with, leading to his standoffish attitude with the other Avengers to start with. I feel if they made him a proper villain it would have been a lot harder to redeem him in EMH - just look at how long it took with Wonder Man!
@@dracone4370 it’s definitely a topic I’ll bring up in the future!
I think my favorite Hawkeye moment in the comics boils down to this. The Thunderbolts realize that they actually want to reform, they want to do what they had only been pretending to do. They want to become hero's and in so doing they betray Zemo. Naturally the Avengers (being the assholes that they are) and the government (being the same) refuse to listen to them. Hawkeye, a reformed criminal himself say, fuck you all if they want to make this work I'm going to help them and show them the way. He turns his back on the Avengers and risks everything to help this group of former villains, many of whom he had personally fought, to give them a chance to prove themselves. THAT is Hawkeye to me. And EMH is far closer to that Hawkeye than MCU is.
He did help them in Avengers Assemble. Unpopular show but I like it.
Dang, i cant wait to see that in the MCU
Nothing beats comic book Clint for me. His journey from arrogant, cynical renegade in the Silver Age to exhausted, self-loathing but heroic everyman in the modern era is one of my favourites among the decades of Marvel and Avengers comics. EMH Hawkeye is probably my preferred adaptation though, purely on the basis of, as you said, capturing his dickish charm and desperation to be accepted in addition to that core impulsivity that drives his character and makes him so wonderfully human. MCU Hawkeye works for me in the context of the MCU but I wouldn't call him the definitive take like I would that setting's versions of Iron Man and Captain America.
Great video. Always happy to see my favourite Avenger get some love.
The exhausted, self loathing part sounds like just about every modern version of a superhero to me.
Thanks for writing this out, it spells out my own feelings on Cap, Tony, and Clint really nicely.
EMH is so underrated. It was dumb they canceled it.
i swear bro
For asembled too.
What I love about emh hawkeye is that despite being a guy with no powers or suit of armor his skills never felt like they were taken for granted. In this show he always portrayed as one of the most hot headed but also at the same time grounded characters that could bring anyone down on his level. Dude saved the avengers in gamma world, nearly killed widow, was a pain in hydra ass and made sure the cosmic cube didn’t end up in hydras clutches. Like the dude pulled his weight.
I love both Hawkeyes. The MCU introduced me to someone who I thought was boring originally, but who I eventually came to absolutely love. He's one of my top 5 favorite heroes. EMH introduced me to the Hawkeye I love even more, the hot-headed and snarky version. As long as Hawkeye doesn't become a villain (Anti-Hero is fine!), some all powerful omnipotent being, or a victim to bad writing, I'll always like Hawkeye.
The same for me except for me it's Captain America I always thought Cap was boring til I seen movie version
It was kind of the opposite for me. I watched EMH first before MCU Hawkeye. EMH came out before Hawkeye appeared in the MCU which was in Thor but he didn’t do anything until Avengers 1 in 2012. MCU is good but EMH Hawkeye is much better.
I love how instead of the Hawkeye series being about changing his family like you guessed, it seems to instead affirm how much he cares about his family, and his main goal for the first two episodes is simply to get home ASAP
Him and Hank are my favorite characters in the show, their characterizations are phenomenal
Hawkeye in the mcu has always been one of my favorites, seeing a man with a bow take down aliens is fantastic
Fun fact: In the Latin American Spanish dub both the EMH Hawkeye and MCU Hawkeye are voiced by the same actor.
Thank you for the fun fact!
I’ve liked Hawkeye in the comics, shows, movies, like he was the most relatable on the team. That’s why I’ve always liked him.
I think there is a lot to talk about when it comes to Hawkaye. In Avengers Earths Migthy's Heroes, Hawkeye's origin is changed a bit by mixing a bit of MCU into what is essentially an adaptation of the classic. He is an agent of shield who is manipulated by the black widow and ends up being seen as a villain by the world, and has a first encounter with iron man who believes him a villain. If you read the origins of the character you will realize that it is more or less similar, but we have a greater perspective from the hawk-eye point of view here. And if you allow me to be a little personal, many of us have perhaps felt in the position of hawkaye, feeling that one does not contribute anything in a group where the rest do everything well. Hawkeye is always a great character who can serve as a human point of view to the crazy world of Marvel, and in emh we see him on multiple occasions, along with his development. An absolutely great moment is in galactic storm operation, where hawkeye makes his shot impossible and achieves it, showing that the origin of his aim is in his self-confidence, which also comes from his teammates. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more scenes throughout the series come to mind, and the more I realize the amazing work the writers did.
I gotta say that Chris Cox-Hawkeye is one of my favorite characters of the show, and versions of Hawkeye overall. Like Wasp, he kinda acts like the relatable character for the audience, the grounded, more “human” Avenger. He’s doesn’t even have a really complicated arc, being his ability to trust people after Black Widow framed him and a good amount of the Avengers quickly turned against him, thinking he was a Skrull.
I don’t hate MCU Hawkeye, but he’s just based on one of my least favorite versions of Clint Barton (The Ultimate Version), so I’ll be 100% honest when I say I could care less about his story arc about family. I think that the MCU has squandered around with his character, not really sure what to do with him, and at this point they’ll probably want to retire Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye and replace him with Kate Bishop. I mean in universe that version of Clint has tried to “retire” three times now, and the most interesting thing he did was *kind of* adapt the Ronin guise, but even that didn’t go anywhere.
This is most likely because of creative decisions over his character and the fact that a Avengers show can flesh out every character while the movies constantly have to shift screen time with the limited hours they have.
Hulk stood up for Hawkeye though
@@markmagician2471 I said “a good amount” of the Avengers, not all of them. So yeah, Hulk and Wasp were on Clint’s side, I’m aware of that.
I like Jeremy Renner's Hawkeye... when they're utilizing him. His parts in Age of Ultron were definitely some of my favorite Hawkeye moments (and my favorite moments from that film). But definitely agree that he was done dirty by the writing of the MCU overall. I mean, he was barely even a character in the first Avengers movie and basically just served as a plot point. It's especially frustrating to me because as far as the MCU goes, I love the concept of him being the human one for Nat to relate to and the one to ground all the other Avengers--but that was a part of the team he barely got to play. A real shame too, because I think Jeremy Renner in particular is fantastic at playing those kinds of relatable characters.
@@Emarella Well, the way I see it, you get what you give. You adapt 616 Hawkeye, you get the best Clint Barton. You adapt Ultimate Hawkeye....you get this.
I really like mcu's hawkeye
In the avengers it felt a bit like just a dude with a bow and arrow, and his counterpart black widow felt much more interesting, but maybe that was because we saw more of her in iron man 2 than him in thor, or her introduction in that movie.
But then avengers 2, without changing anything, shows us a much more interesting guy, then his family shows us that he is actually nothing like black widow, and the weight of the world really seems to fit on his shoulders neatly.
He and vision helps wanda become her own master idk I love a not mean-as-hell mentor
In short he deserves a series
Coming in from EMH made me disappointed in MCU Hawkeye. EMH did seem way closer to comics. I came to terms with it by telling myself MCU Hawkeye was an older version xD
As some other commenters have noted, parts of MCU Hawkeye, like his family, are rooted in his Ultimates-universe counterpart. So there’s that, too - but I could definitely see EMH Hawkeye getting more of an MCU vibe as he ages!
Insecurity and self worth is always at the centre of Hawkeye. It's form has evolved over the decades and it's definitely tamed in the MCU, but it's absolutely the core of the character. His origin is literally seeing Iron Man save someone and taking interest away from his circus act and going well that's no so impressive, I could make just as good a hero. I do definitely expect his insecurities to come out more in the series, but less so in that classic form, moreso in the Fraction style that so much of the show is taking it's inspiration from, or maybe somewhere between.
MCU Clint was, like many of the MCU characters, based more on the Ultimates version of the character. His past with Natasha, his status as an already established S.H.I.E.L.D agent, and his look all reflect that. For many of them though, it was mostly the updated Ultimates looks they used and still went with classic 616 personalities instead of the Ultimates version, Cap most notably, while Wanda, Pietro, and Falcon are much more their Ultimates version in origin as well as look.
A lot of what made Hawkeye such a great comic character never made it into the films. The main aspect being that Hawkeye was a villain who redeemed himself because Captain America had faith in him. A lot of his arc after that was trying to prove himself worthy of that trust.
Unfortunately a lot of backstory to characters never made it to films because the length of time between movies is just too long. Pretty much every relationship between characters in the films happens off screen between films, and for a lot of the characters, that's a real shame because we never got to see Hawkeye and Black Widow together as a team which would have been a nice bone to throw to the comicbook fans.
I actually like that MCU hawkeye isnt a smartass or a prick , I like that he really is a family man that happens to be a cool ass hero (who barely likes being a hero tbh)
"I'm not so sure I want to be part of a team I have to rescue every week."
SPOILERS:
And not to mention, the reveal that widow is actually a double agent-she apologizes to him later in the episode when it is revealed and she asks him to come with her, he does not saying he's running with a new crowd now-the avengers-these new friends whom he can trust.
EMH is how I see Hawkeye but the MCU one is still amazing because once you see enough strange thing you’d get a little numb to it and you’d chill out a lot but having a Hawkeye who was the best of the super spies being thrown in a team of superhero’s would make him more competitive and both work really well
Bra I clicked on this video so fast man. I'm watching it now. Hawkeye is my favorite character on EMS, MCU, and hate to say it even Avengers Assemble. You described him in the beginning perfect. I love his relationship with each member of the team in EMS especially with Black Panther. When they're together they're hilarious and deadly at the same time. Hawkeye in the MCU definitely feels like a window to this crazy universe from a human perspective. I can't wait for his show. I'm too hyped!! Barton's best quip in EMS is when he asked Ultron what did Hulk contribute? Your bad attitude. Lmao. His best moment is when he jokingly challenged BP for the throne. I love his character all the way!!
I love both honestly. MCU Hawkeye is a mix of 616 (Matt Fraction arc particularly) and Ultimate Hawkeye (married with a wife and kids, normal guy even though he is a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, even the lash out when he lost his family like Ultimates 3/Ultimatum) . The Hawkeye show seems to flesh it out. I love Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes gets to have 616 Hawkeye with some S.H.I.E.L.D. Background. I don’t think MCU Hawkeye is as bad as people make it out to be but a perfect example of what makes the MCU works (mixing so many different elements but creating an original take with a lot of humor and heart).
Basically hawkeye is the mcu's version of flash in dcau's justice league. Both of them are the anchors of the team's humanity
Honorable mention to Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 Hawkeye. It seemed heavily based on the EMH version and had a delightful brashness and general 'Hawkeyeness' to him.
My Favorite version! Avengers , Defenders I make Any Team Better
I was really waiting for this one! Hawkeye is my favorite Avenger in the show! Also, the reason MCU Hawkeye is different from the main comics, is because he’s based off the Ultimate Universe version like most MCU characters.
Now that EP3 is out I'm so happy they are showcasing his skills and trickarrows more properly... I loved Hawkeye in EMH and MvC3, how he holds his own and how creative and fast he is with his arrows... I was so bummed he barely shot any arrows in endgame but hopefully they showcase more of it in the next EPs
The play-doh arrows felt straight out of EMH Hawkeye’s quiver!
The big difference is that in the MCU, Hawkeye's greatest power is that he has already had most of his character development before the movies started. He knows who he is and why he's saving the world. He has his family to go home to. And he is carries the Avengers by his pinky while fighting against surreal threats like Loki, Ultron, and Thanos.
It is no coincidence that the Avengers disbanded as soon as he retired. It is no coincidence that Thanos won in Infinity War but lost in Endgame. Had Hawkeye not been in Endgame, the gauntlet would stay in the wreckage at least until Thanos had killed multiple Avengers. Had Hawkeye been in Infinity War, he would have blown up half the army against Wakanda, told Vision to just slice Thanos in half, and he most definitely would have tricked Thanos the same way he tricked Loki with a bomb arrow.
Was it not Hawkeye who saved the whole multiverse in What If...?
Had he not had his family to avenge, he would be just like in EMH. Powerless and rude. And wearing an absolutely ridiculous costume, because he wouldn't have a wife to divorce him.
While I'm not so sure about his combat feats in hypothetical Infinity War, it does seem quite plausible for him to convince the other heroes that destroying the Mind Stone is not a workable solution, and killing Thanos has a much better chance of success.
THANK YOU for speaking about _Earth's Mightiest Heroes._ To date, this remains (for me) THE BEST _Avengers_ cartoon. The final season was a little... RUSHED. And _yeah...._ I'll say it: DISAPPOINTING in the way they ended things. But it had LOADS more character and heart than it's flashy, (but ultimately hollow) replacement, _Avengers Assemble._ _EMH_ Hawkeye was an _experience;_ amazing, witty, funny, dependable. And not at ALL a joke. On this show, I NEVER felt like he was "just" a guy with a bow. Whereas MCU's Hawkeye felt like an SNL skit sometimes. In fact, as a viewer, I can honestly say I wouldn't have been disappointed if they'd decided to leave MCU Hawkeye out ENTIRELY. It's hard to imagine MCU Clint being able to somehow overtake Natasha as well as convince her to join Shield. Even on his Disney + series, _this_ Clint is little more than a background character.
Full disclosure; I was _never_ a fan of Whedon's Farm House Family™ thing. I just felt like it was a random, add-on for the plot. I found myself bored for the duration of their time there. It just felt like that middling slog you get in a fanfiction where the writer needs to work in some established "team time" for manufactured drama in order to set up later angst to work into the plot later... like the whole Natasha/Bruce thing.
Sorry for the rambling. It's about 4am currently and I am dog tired, but my overactive mind won't let me sleep. I REALLY enjoyed this video and will be checking out more of your vids! 💯
I definitely prefer EMH Hawkeye, partly because I feel like, at least until Age of Ultron, MCU Hawkeye was underutilised
I'm not sure how that could be fixed - possibly by giving him a more active role in Thor, and then in Avengers having him snap himself out of Loki's mind control (maybe it could be implied to be partly based on sound so he could do the same sonic arrow trick he did with Kilgrave in the comics)
I also wondered a while back if Age of Ultron bringing up that the Avengers need Hawkeye would have been more credible if in the first movie he'd have helped rally the team after the Helicarrier attack, or find Banner and convince him to come back to the Avengers like how EMH Hawkeye convinced the Hulk to rejoin the team
I do agree that he's basically the same character but he simply serves a different role in EMH and MCU
I love Hawkeye but that love came from the show first. I've always liked the character but when I first started to read comicbooks he was Ronin so I didn't fully understood the importance of his role in the Avengers. EMH made care deeply about Clint and he became one of my favorite characters from the show
Another fantastic video on a great topic, love how you approach these kinds of topics! Think you hit the nail on the head!
MCU Hawkeye has a lot less to prove. He was always a member of the team; to the extent he's trying to prove anything, it's more he's trying to prove to himself that he can keep up. He's had no big betrayal; if anything, he probably thinks he betrayed the team in Avengers 1. He knows his team trusts him, and he's got a family he can go home to.
EMH Hawkeye on the other hand... He wasn't there at any of the team's first big battles. He wasn't there to fight Graviton, Hydra, or Claw. He's not only trying to prove that he belongs, but that he's integral enough to the team that if another Black Widow situation happens again, everyone he knows and trusts won't turn on him at the drop of a dime.
Funfact: Everytime Hawkeye wasn't there with the Avengers, "everything gone to shit."
EMH hawkeye will always be better thanks to his vastly superior drip
Hawkeye’s real superpower is his fit
Such a good character study! Especially the points you hit on with EMH Hawkeye, and the simultaneous insecurity and desire for trust he has. Thanks for the video!
This was a fascinating analysis of the differences in adaptations of the same character. I love it!
Keep up the quality content, man!
Like the character, the development of this in the series can go unnoticed by many
Hawkeye was one of my favorite characters in EMH and like many of the other characters from that show, he became the definitive version of that character in my mind. He has this unbelievable grit and will power which is the only reason why he can keep up with his super powered and armed teammates.
You always got the feeling that Hawkeye belongs on the Avengers team and that's sadly something I never felt felt from the MCU version where he is clearly underpowered to the point where even he acknowledges it. It really felt like the MCU never put enough effort into Hawkeye. Now to be clear there are some aspects about him in that show that I like such as his family but if he's defined by his family, then it's not really an explicit example of Hawkeye's independent character, rather a case of him being defined by outside factors.
And even if I liked the family aspect of Hawkeye, the MCU version still isn't *Hawkeye* because he's just too different from the core character traits that defined the comics and EMH Hawkeye. The grit, the will power, the surliness, even the sardonic sense of humor are all absent from MCU Hawkeye (at least for most of his appearances) and this is again in addition to how he feels very underpowered.
The MCU Hawkeye seemed to only latch on to the superficial idea of Hawkeye being a guy who uses a bow and arrow but they couldn't even do that completely right! Like they almost never let Hawkeye use cool arrows and they didn't even him his iconic purple costume, both of which define Hawkeye's brand and iconography. And again, these superficial missteps come second to not truly understanding and conveying the character traits that make Hawkeye Hawkeye which is very disappointing considering how this same MCU managed to so perfectly understand and covey other heroes like Iron Man and Captain America.
I watched EMH and I never thought there was this much depth to this version of Hawkeye. Love your videos on EMH!
I really enjoy how EMH portray Hawkeye as well. I also enjoy this video go over the difference in each Hawkeye. Keep up the good work
Loving these uploads
I love both versions of Hawkeye. Tbh I think my perfect Hawkeye would be a mixture of the two.
great analysis. spot on
Please please please make this a series, I’d love for you to compare all the MCU character stories to this specific cartoon!
Sure, this would be a fun thing to do every now and then!
@@PillarofGarbage Love your videos Pillar, thanks for replying
EMH Hawk eye actually has his cool mask nuff said
That’s the one thing I would loved to see in the hawk eye show as maybe just a background Easter egg
I LOVE the EMH Hawkeye! Great breakdown of the two iterations. Cheers!
Loving the channel
The Hawkeye video! Hooray! I've been waiting haha
I like Hawkeye AEMH Because every time he had to save the Avengers every episode
I just watch this video today but I had this exact conversation with my friends a few days ago about the differences between comic book Hawkeye and MCU Hawkeye. It's uncanny but it's like you read my mind. This was awesome.
I think the main issue with MCU Hawkeye is Whedon had no idea to do with him. He gets like two lines in Thor, he's mostly brainwashed in Avengers and then shoots arrows at stuff for a while. Then because Whedon either ignores criticism or tries to show he can do the exact opposite, we get like a reverse fridge where Clint is now a more complex character because he has a sudden wife and children. And yes I get he was keeping it a secret but clearly Whedon could have foreshadowed it in the first Avengers if it was an actually planned ahead of Ultron.
Then we get Russo Clint with Civil War, which was fun and didn't try to force the story to include more Clint than was necessary. Still continued to build his character to the side of the story. Then Jeremy Renner breaks both arms in a movie about tag so he's not in Infinity War so we get to movies with of Clint storyline in Endgame which...was...fine...
The show and having two Hawkeyes finally figured out how to tell a Hawkeye story. Finally got to play with the character and his motivations and somehow ties all the weird decisions from all the movies together. Which is impressive even if he's not my favorite version.
It answeredthe two most important questions about why someone with no powers chooses to work with the Avengers. Kate really fleshes that out but Clint shows who he is during a regular vacation not just when robots are everywhere. Then the next question what kind of life does someone like that have. And the Hawkeye show does an amazing job at that. Finally Jeremy Renner gets to have some range in a MCU project. Finally we get this reflection to show off why they choices are so heroic.
And EMH was better. It didn't struggle with how to use the character because they knew what he should be right from the start. Probably why the show was so impressive, they managed to unify all these weird choices into something fantastic. Didn't make him the best version of Hawkeye.
Thanks for the video.
great work. I'd love to see videos like these for Carol Danvers or Hulk
EMH Hawkeye is great and you did talk about what I like about him in the MCU, but my favorite take on him is the Fraction comics. And it does seem that's where the show got a lot of inspiration.
I'm a big Hawkeye fan and EMH is one of my favorite versions of the character, I don't like MCU Hawkeye really but I hope It changes with his new series.
Yes!!! You get it!! Hawkeye is my favourite character in all of fiction. Good video, going in my Hawkeye playlist 👌
When ever people talk about how Hawkeye don't have a family in the comics I want to be that guy who brings up the Ultimate version who HAD a family and their murder caused him to go nuts.
Beautiful video on my favourite superheroe of all time.
One of my favorite introductions from the whole show:
*Tick, tick, boom* 😏
You just can't hate that smug bastard 😅
Emh was my favorite Hawkeye and honestly he still is.
I find Clint really elevated as a character when he and Kat started working together regularly. It was such an awesome relationship between mentor and mentee. As he was trying to set her up to be better then than him, he was really an everyman superhero.
The love and affection Hawkeye gets in the show is like the polar opposite of how regular people treat him on the daily.
I’ve always wondered why he was making fun of the big 3 being weak when he was constantly trying to prove himself I always thought he would’ve been able to sympathize with them instead of making fun of them but now I know why he acted the way he did
One difference, one is written well, the other one is just there. They both are underrated, but EMH wins by a landslide
I think that’s a fair comment on MCU Clint in Avengers 1 and Endgame, but I did like how they did him in Civil War.
@@PillarofGarbage agreed, also I like his Character in Age of Ultron the most out of MCU
Honestly I kind of like the fact that’s he’s just there it makes it so you can put yourself in his shoes I think he gets just the right amount of attention not too little because he’s still one of the original 6 avengers but also not too much where he looses his realism
Clint is just the most amazing characters in comics, series and MCU.
An interesting take thank you. I would go further to place ultimate comics Hawkeye at least in the initial run as a third model of Hawkeye; in the ultimate comics run Hawkeye comes off as seeing himself and maybe Natasha as the only two professionals in the room and that the rest of the dynamic is a circus... He's so competent and complete as a special agent that he imagines that the world of governments and shield and Shadow operations is the world and everything else has to fit into it... He can't really process that the emergence of the ultimates and what they have to battle represent something bigger than he's ever dealt with... Even the death of his family comes from typical forces and not superhuman ones...
Great video. I love EMH Hawkeye because he was such an interesting character. The MCU Hawkeye is cool, but I needed more of him. I look forward to his show. I also like with EMH Hawkeye he wanted acceptance and I can connect and understand him, p,us his costume looks great
Honestly, Marvel really fucked Hawkeye over in Avengers. It’s hard to feel much for a character who spends half the movie as a an evil, mind controlled minion.
Thumbnail: "Hawkeye vs Hawkeye - What They Changed"
Me looking at the thumbnail: "Hawkeye What vs Hey Hawkeye Changed"
LOVE myself some emf and Hawkeye analysis and content🙌🙌🙌 I really do enjoy Jeremy Renner's performance as Hawkeye as well as the story of his and Nat's past and relationship that like you said is really based on a mutual trust. Implicitly Pretentious' vids on Hawkeye and Black Widow are really great in demonstrating the deeper context to their friendship and its awesome to see a respectful and pretty decent adaption of the characters in the Mcu.
I always wondered what was Don Heck’s ( the artist who first drew Hawkeye) point of the horned domino mask on Hawkeye’s cowl
I think MCU's Hawkeye was sort of written to be a bit more jaded/serious than the comic/cartoon counterpart, just based off the whole spy/spec op theme he was first introduced with in the 1st Thor movie. Still love it though!
MCU Hawkeye is more based upon Ultimate comics Hawkeye so I think that also plays a part of how he's portrayed in the movies. Excellent essay!
I first read the thumbnail as:
" Hawkeye what, Hawkeye changed"
I think this recent episode of Hawkeye sums up your story. For 1 like you said he is married. 2. Cartoon Hawkeye wears his costume to stand out amongst the heroes. MCU Hawkeye in the recent episode didn't go that route because his undercover background with Shield required him to be undercover. MCU treats Hawkeye more as a secrete agent or even a secrete agent of the avengers rather then a enforcer of the avengers. Just like black widow. Hawkeye and Black Widow bring a skill that the avengers dont have. And that is being covert and secrete and intelligence gathering. Even in the first Avengers, Shield contacted Black Widow in the middle of the interrogation where she was gathering information for shield. Hawkeye TV series is now exploiting Hawkeyes strengths. He was a assassin of the avengers and for shield. Even in the first Thor movie, shield sent Clint to assassinate Thor if he did something crazy when trying to pick up his Hammer. In the first Avengers, Loki turned Clint into his personal assassins' to kill the avengers. And after the snap clint becomes a ruthless assassin. MCU exploit clint as a dangerous assassin unchained. The show is now exploiting clint on his covert skills in getting in and out of situations just like Black Widow. MCU clint is not like the comic book simply because he is good at what he is as a person in real life. Quite, convert, and undercover. MCU treats normal humans as a tool for intelligence rather then brute force. Even with Tony Stark, he uses in brain to build a soon to give him strength. I think this is how most normal MCU characters will be portrayed.
Nobody:
The thumbnail: HERES WHAT HEY CHANGED
I’m very excited for the new show but apart from the comics emh is the only version of the character I like
As we see in the show, the reason he is the way he is is because he thinks he cannot be anyone's role model, and that melted my heart
For me the turning point for MCU Hawkeye was his pep talk to Wanda in Age of Ultron...he went for meh to DAMMMMNN in 10 seconds
Trust me bro, your channel will be successful.
To me it seemed that EMH Hawkeye and even AA Hawkeye were to cocky, making him similar to Tony, but less smart.
So I thought that they made him more stoic in a way how Arrowverse Green Arrow became more like Batman then his usual goofy self like in other adaptions.
In doing so they miss what made people like Green Arrow and Hawkeye. There the normal humans even more human than people like Batman because there dual identities are just the same, they get angry, make mistakes and are screwups but ultimately try to be better
@@thomasjohnson1885 Agreed. MCU Hawkeye and Arrowverse Arrow aren't bad but in the case of Green Arrow, they lost what made them stand out from someone that they complained were similar.
Yeah, OG Arrowverse Green Arrow really was able to shine. They may have essentially been doing a batman show (of sorts), but even without the beard and an outfit that is well, darker and less goofy, it worked. Also, he killed. When he stopped killing and they started making plots drivel off from the original storyline (and shoved all canaries in the background for felicity too) I feel the show was forever weakened. It also made it feel more like Batman being knocked-off then being more batman inspired for TV. At some point, b4 Flash got to S5 (gg) I liked the episodes with arrow and flash and there differences bouncing each other as well as the show's casts different opinions on the "hero vs. anti-hero" scenario it presented. Felt more like a justice leaque then then the multiverse crisis, though I admit "crisis on earth-x" well to me is extremely underrated. So far if they don't let someone good or new sit in arrow's chair made I don't see how any new one could be as good. Bring in Connor Hawke and do a sequel series where they kill or don't kill and they squabble but don't hate on each other if it's down to that. Aka what they should've did with Batwoman.
@@oneandonlysound3453 Agreed I still have to fully watch S1 and 2 of Arrow to see the greatness.
Yeah I like seeing the main heroes interacting with each other and each team.
Batwoman has it's moments. Imo it did Black Mask way better then Birds of Prey did him.
@@mandalorianhunter1 I totally agree with Black Mask. Like best villain the show will ever have in easily the worst season a CW arrowverse show will probably ever be. I mean I hated Flash S5 (and S7) a lot and I mean, what long running show doesn't have one bad season. But Season 3 has improved the...well not "let's double down and fully 2020 this" narrative. Just a shame Wallis Day kate kane can't be around as "Red Robin." I hope both Black Mask and Jacob Kane come back for one last episode at least-like a revenge and justice in all ways for everyone fufilled. Blask Mask doing a dark knight rises+V For Vendetta scenario at the end of S2...if built up too properly could've been epic. and yes, the BOP version is...well it's Roman Sionis. Black mask is not in that film.
What is it with Super Hero Archers and being the grounded person in superhero teams?
Like Green Arrow and Hawkeye, are kinda like the straight men of their teams, the grounded members.
I know this has nothing to do with the video but even ten years later the theme song still slaps
I hate how they made him so underrated. He's not Natasha, he's trained to kill but that's not how he was raised. He's the only one who fought even if he only had a bow and arrow, no serum, no armor, no power. Just a guy with a bow and a plan. He sees good in people and tends to save them that's why him being ronin is a part of his character from a hero to a heartless vigilante. He not appreciated by people since marvel focused so much on super-powered heroes
I can’t choose which one I like more.
Both are on 2 spectrums of his life. One is a bit on the fresher side of his development cause he’s younger. The MCU is older and doesn’t need to go through the same things, but rather shows different aspects of him more. Less of the growing, and more of the affirming the character he is now.
I was curious to see how you were going to account for the difference between Avengers 1-2 Clint, and Civil War Clint, in your character summation. I wasn't really expecting that you wouldn't.
Avengers Hawkeye was one Hawkeye, and Civil War was another (and better), for my money. I'm impressed that you've drawn a synopsis of the character that actually validated both of these as compatible. I can vibe with this.
EMH: Expectation
MCU: Reality
‘We have Hawkeye at home’
I was thinking about this same thing after watching Hawkeye yesterday.
EMH made Hawkeye my #1. He's just sick with it. He's like a superhero Dude Perfect with the personality of Han Solo who is willing to deal with almost any situation or villain.
Like a lot of stuff in the MCU, I believe MCU Hawkeye is more influenced by the Ultimate Comics version, as opposed to the 616 universe.
I think you should've brought up the iteration of the character that appeared in Avengers: United They Stand.
It's like a spectrum, UTS and MCU at opposite ends while EMH sits perfectly in the middle
That could definitely be interesting, but before I get into specific parts of UTS I feel I’d need a video or two introducing it to my audience :)
I really have a lot of mixed feelings about that show. It is a love-hate relationship (I think I already mentioned it in another video but in that series in Latin America they translated a hawk eye as a lynx eye)
EMH’s version has always and probably will always be my favorite version of the character! Befor the show I always just thought of him as a arrow guy and pretty useless because in the films he was always running out of arrows but the show made him one of my favorites! #SaveTheYostverse