Why Are Mountain Bikes & Components So Expensive?
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Why are mountain bikes so expensive? We often hear "you could get a car for that" and the same with a motorbike! Neil's delving into why mountain bikes are expensive, at both the budget and the high-end price points. Nick Larsen, bike industry lifer and Cannondale designers on hand to weigh in with some bike industry perspective too, from his roots in making affordable hardtails for Charge bikes to his new role at a brand with an £8k bike.
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Leave us a comment below! - Sport
It’s out of control, it’s expensive because we choose to pay it. If high end bikes didn’t sell they would be forced to drop pricing.
same applies to everything else... houses, cars, cellphones, cameras... people are willing to pay whatever to get stuff.
If high-end bikes didn’t sell, they would more likely just stop have high-end offerings.
Gmbn could also represent the budget market properly. Instead of calling 1500 budget. Look at the vitus nucleus and tell me that's not perfect for a beginner. And it's 1/3 - 1/2 of their "budget" at around £500. You would be getting 120mm air forks, 1x drivetrain, dropper ready( with internal routing), tubeless ready, wide bars, tektro brakes and decent tires. I can't see a pure beginner needing more than this
Edit: would like to say gmbn to recommend quality components that aren't always high end and the latest and greatest, so have to give them props for that
not just than man, you cant just say that mtb bikes and component, they take days,month even years developin this parts and you just said the price gonna drop when we dont buy iy.
i mean when they cant sold they're bikes or component they prob just gonna recycle it, these days you can recycle carbon and not just something that made out of metal.
man i mean from me (an engineer) when people say this it just hurts man, so at least give some respect of our work cuz we dont force you to buy it.
Quick! Stop buying everything!! Hahaa
The simple answer is: we consumers are idiots and are willing to pay stupid money for bikes/components. Companies know that they can charge ridiculous money because we will pay it despite the fact almost everyone is ‘overbiked’ and doesn’t need it.
I fully agree despite dropping $1000 US on a new drivetrain because "ape brain say gold shiny"
@Taylor Brost this. Well said. Bikes aren't too expensive. People are too poor. Globalist politicians have killed the middle class across the western world.
Absolutely correct.
@Taylor Brost yes but all of these advances came from motocross and have been around for decades no reason to charge $10,000 for a bike that costs $150 to build.
@@weedshoes5089 nope.
Specialized Enduro Elite - 5499 £
2021 Honda CRF250F - 4699 £
🙋🏻♂️
@CZcamsLoser Yeah but how often can you ride it lol
@CZcamsLoser not starving is always more fun
@CZcamsLoser Some of us just don't have the time to drive hours just to ride a few days or even one day m8
CRF150L is about $2500 in my country. Street legal, can ride everyday... so yeah, i get the point
Still riding bike tho, both are equally fun
@@agunlogisteam road/cx bikes that are under €1000 is fun and long lasting plus you can do it often but €2000+ bikes for a little bit of riding is just an unaffordable hobby
It's not just the bikes. It's the equipment, tools, spares and clothing for all seasons!
Not to mention the medical bills for some
Nah we have got free health care in Poland and also tools are not that expensive if you dont buy them from a very popular brand like park tool
Yeah bro
@@krzysztofnowak69 yeah that's rigjt
Not mine . I bought a 29 inch wheel mtb for $120 new . I changed the bottom bracket to sealed ,$10 bucks . Changed the freewheel to freehub 7 speed to 8 speed cassette $35. Shimano shifters ,$30 . And line pull hydro brakes . $32 . I could have went full hydraulic for the same price .
So for about $230 . I am all set . The tools like the socket to remove the hub or crank arms are a couple of bucks .
. But I am not in the US . Where all that is 4 x the amount .
It is waaaay too expensive. Especially when compared to other items like motorcycles/scooters/cars. I can tell that Neil thought the answer to the motorcycle comparison was a little BS. Motorcycles are way more complicated and economies of scale isn't enough to make up the difference. Bikes and components are made in big factories over seas.
Its a bicycle at the end of yhe day . A complete rip off im through with the sport .
Agreed. His motorcycle comparison had an interesting point (you can't just buy Billy Bolt's world championship bike). But I can buy a new Husqvarna 300 for around $10K that is damn close, minus suspension and engine tuning. I'll never be able to ride it like him but the point is it wouldn't cost no were near $100K. Also I would venture to say there are a whole lot more people riding mountain bikes than dirt bikes, the economies of scale would be in favor of bicycles no?
It's definitely too expensive there's way more technology in a dirt bike and they cost the same at the same point though I love my mountain bike and I do feel like the companies are ripping everybody off I'm not alone
It's cheaper to buy individual parts than buying a complete set. Still it's way too expensive
When you compare a race bike to a race dirt bike, dirt bike is gonna be significantly more expensive - you are comparing two completely different things here
@guacyume he doesn’t directly address the issue, he does very good in his role to pivot focus. But the question still remains; why is a full suspension mountain bike, and a motocross bike with more moving parts, electronics, engine, etc... more expensive than a mountain bike.
He says that to buy a top tier race ready motocross bike, is much more than buying a race ready mountain bike. Which is true, but that wasn’t the question.
The question is how can something with far more technology, research, moving components, and simply more material (an off-road motorcycle) cost about the same as a full suspension mountain bike that arguably has almost the same type of components, but using way less material.
@guacyume ergo the problem if mugs like you buy that line! There is sod all to a MTB compared to a motorcycle!
Why do you think some motorcycle parts manufacturers are moving to produce MTB parts? Here’s a clue: margin
@@JGold_FPV have you seen how a carbon bike is made? The work that goes into design, tooling and layup for a comparatively low volume product has more tech in it than building a motorbike frame. The motors etc are high volume small margins. I can easily see how a mountain bike can cost the same.
Was interesting to see the Cannondale guys eyes darting around like he was searching for an answer that wouldn't simply be "we charge so much because we can." He didn't seem comfortable about the topic.
I thought it was just me. LOL He really didnt answer the question in a straight forward manner, at all.
2021 S-Works Stumpjumper - $14,849 CAD
2021 Honda CBR650R - $10,749 CAD
2021 S-Works Turbo Levo $18,699 CAD
2021 Ducati Panigale V2 - $18,995 CAD
Specialized are penny pinchers and always will be
You can't ride a motorcycle on bike trails
@@curtrichardson8002 but you can on motorbike trails
@@dicksplatts007 not a motorcycle site.
@@curtrichardson8002 Its like saying you can't ride 300 kph with a Mountainbike..I love mountainbiking but this just doesn‘t justifies the price :( Just compare the MTB tech with the Motorcycle tech.
But as long as the demand is that high and people pay these huge amounts of cash..it wont change
cheers
3000 euros for you is cheap. This is the problem. WTF with 6-7k you could buy a new motorcycle with much more parts and engineering. I know both worlds and bikes are overpriced
Agree with you, I ride both, how can it be that a bicycle costs as much as a motorcycle, it’s just a bike, ridiculous.
@@eddy9260 from what I understand, there is less mass production and more specialized work needs to be done in assembly.
I've also heard that most mountain bikes are made in Taiwan, partially to pay homage to the country since it's believed that's where mountain biking originated
Edit: this video has a much better explanation as to why the price disparity is so high. It's also more amusing than the video we are commenting through
czcams.com/video/BS9ugdl1FZc/video.html
@@hazard7732mountain biking did not originate in Taiwan, lol.
Its really expensive. Because the company's want to make massive profits from very little material. 2k for a bike is not cheap. Welding aluminium tubes together mass production, isnt expensive, they then order 3rd party parts n then charge at least double what they cost to make. Yous keep using the word affordable, affordable to who??? Average wage in u.k per week is about £300 so almost a year of saving, unlessyou dont have bills to buy what u call affordable bikes
Plus you gotta save more for your future so yeah mountain biking is for the rich
Average UK wage pre-tax is about 740 a week.
512 when taxed assuming no student debt and a standard tax code.
Let's assume you have 2050 a month, taking mortgage, food, bills etc, I wouldn't be surprised if you had 500 left over.
So simple, don't spend have or spend a penny on family, holidays, additional expenses and in 6 months to a year you can buy a bike.
Seems reasonable /s
@@gowanlock most people be lucky if they clear £1500 a month, most work 39 hrs at minimum wage which is under £9 hr so were u getting that from. Most of u.k is on minimum wage
Haha - that's how I feel about the ODI clamps (never again)... But in defense of the companies - R&D along with other costs is not cheap either and they employ some pretty smart folks, many things have had to happen to get to the point where frame can get welded... Having said that, I do think that bikes and parts are expensive... at least I'm not a roadie... those folks have it tough...
But remember that mtb brands have to pay big royalties to the companies that make components for them like shimano fox sram race face of any other brand
Damn the salary at Gmbn must be great if you think €2000-4000 is affordable bikes. It's an absurd amount of money for a bike.
remember the presenters don't have to pay for any bike they ride on the channel. Doddy must get the best deal - you hardly ever see him riding on the channel. He is always stuck at home in his bike cave.
They have to please their sponsors so at the end of the day it's their job to promote the bikes, whilst trying to sound sympathetic to us..
Not for a bike , its just the frame :D :D
Well, seeing the average income at the top 10 european country is pretty affordable. One year saving money and you can easily buy a 4000 bike. Try to see the average income in the East European and Latin American countries and you'll reconsider.
If one can save 2 dolar/euro per day in five years he will have 3650 dolars/euro. This is enough for buying a very good mountain bike. How much do we spend with starbuck coffes, fastfood and all the kind of grosseries that will give us serious healthy issues and will make us waste much more money in treatments and medicines. While spending a lot of money in a mountain bike - which you don't need, of course will give you much better phisycal and mental health( sometimes some injuries, but yeah, it's the game).
"Not really that expensive"
*continues to say*
"The nuke proof is only $2,500"
🤣🤣🤣
Exactly!!!! 🤪 the perception is mind blowing.
Agreed. This is just silly. Like asking a pro athleate is nutrition and gym access is expensive. It is relative like everything. I would like to see actual cost to manufacture and markup charts.
Maybe it’s you’re perception that needs updated. To some 2500$ isn’t a lot. And it really isn’t. It’s saving from a few paychecks.and gg.
compare it to someone who smokes cigarettes @ $17 a pack here in Canada & you'll see that a $5k price tag for a mtb isn't that out of reach imo.
I'm wondering how about people living outside the UK / US? ,currencies matters , if you say that 2.5k pounds is expensive for us 4 - 5x times higher ^^
This is why mtbiking community's so small around the world, imagined that it was affordable, I guess there's a lot of talents out there can beat loïc bruni
XD
I grew up racing Motocross, you can buy a factory edition KTM and Husky and a Works edition Honda off the show room floor and win your National MX championship on those bikes if you have the talent. Those bikes are still less expensive than some top end MTB's. Supercross suspension, gearboxes and electronics are the big ticket item's that you can't buy hence why the price tag is so high on those bikes. I love MTB'ing but in 5 years it's gone from affordable to out of control. Once bike sales dry up like in the dirt bike world because its out of reach of most people maybe the bike brands will start to pull their heads in??
I still think us normal non sponsored lot are getting ripped off with the price of MTBs. Especially full sus bikes! One day some company will sell decent bikes without a huge markup and my god, they will explode as a brand.
Direct to consumer brands exist, but the majority bash them and argue that you should support Your local store
@@Monyx92 Have you got any links? I've been looking around for ages but I've had no luck. UK based if that helps.
@@irfuel seriously? I know at least 2 shops and 3 mobile repair people here that will work on ANY bike. They get paid to do this work so why would they refuse? I get the local shops may have an issue but mobile repair people will just want to repair, make money and help.
@@irfuel they could make more money doing a side business to repair bikes for example, but I see the proposition. If you can turn down customers for not paying MTB tax then that keeps the money within the local bike shops. I understand they don't want to fizzle out, but some people can't afford to buy locally unfortunately.
@@irfuel never ever heard of that. They make most of their money on repairs, tune ups and parts, not bike sales.
So come the end of that video, conclusion remains as we all thought: they are taking the pee out of the customers and there’s basically no justification of why a bicycle is so expensive.
None at all, some claim r&d ok but has the frame design changed that significantly year on year? These companies pretty much done away with the starter platform bike with cheaper generic components that you could of upgrade slowly at your leisure.
@@AC-ww6nf " bike with cheaper generic components that you could of upgrade slowly at your leisure."
Its WAY cheaper to buy the best bike you can all up front. Buying twice always costs more, even if you resell the parts. Plus if you buy good from the beginning, you get to ride those parts for the life of the bike. I keep bikes for 10 years minimum, so i buy light expensive carbon frames and wheels and bars. Buy once, spread the cost over a decade. Cheaper that way.
Take it the early segment was filmed pre-GX AXS release!
Still not cheap
@@samuelcooke2146 no, 600$ is not a small amount of money, but for what it is and the tech that’s in it, it’s a great deal.
@@silas5483 The tech that's in it? A battery, receiver and an electric motor?
@@tarukmongto it has the same components as the higher end x01 and xx1 derailleur. Considering those are both 700 and 800 dollar parts, the 350$ gx version is a good deal.
@@samuelcooke2146 600$ my cassette was close to 500 lol
It's not just the Bikes/Components that are expensive. Bike-specific gear also costs an absolute fortune
@CZcamsLoser It's an absolute madness.
@CZcamsLoser you can also have unbranded synthetic t shirts for less than 10£/$/€
@CZcamsLoser that’s the issue though, they know people need them so they charge extortionate amounts. Clever business I guess . But also means people will go without the safety due to them being too expensive
I was shocked what they ask for fox pants etcetera, i have Goretex snowboard clothing that is way more tech for that price category
Marketing guys, marketing.
I’ve always foundthose « sport »-specific clothing really out of point, people think that wearing these specific types of gear make them more comfortable and better, forgetting that these are just t-shirt and bermudas, nothing really special...
Unless you're spending a load of money nothing has changed, your suspension technology is still 20 years old (motion control) It's still cogs and chains. It's not justifiable, there's just a lot of people with too much money who pay these prices
I’ve bought a second hand specialised enduro , it’s a few years old but in really good condition , it cost me £600 but I’m upgrading it with x01 gears and hope hubs , new handle bars and a leather seat. It’s got really good condition fox 160mm forks and upgraded rear fox air shock. Just building it up now with new cables etc so should be riding soon.
axs 'might trickle down eventually'
gx eagle axs released 2 days ago
still costs near 700 euro's..yeah getting cheap lol
Still too expensive to be reasonable. I'd rather get a gear box bike and support innovation attempts that aren't just "add more points of potential failure to make it more complicated and charge people higher prices".
"Getting rid of the fragile rear derailleurs" is a far better goal for MTB tech to aim for. Additionally, in these times of climate change and micro plastics in our food and water we should avoid creating more e-waste instead of trying too brute force everything to be wireless sensibility be damned.
@@gedrot2486 Small example, i'm now buying a 29'r with carbon frame to replace my 8 year old 26 inch alu hardtail bike. The bike around 2k euro's, upgrading to vittoria mezcal tires another 100 euro, dropperpost 200 euro, tubeless kit 50 euro, new pedals 100 euro. 2450 euro is in my honest opinion quite the investment. If i would go with the gx eagle axs i would be spending more than 3k..With some searching i might even get the bike with XTR. So MTB is expensive, the reward you get after beating your pr's, flying over the trails and having fun with friends does make it worth to invest some money. But GX eagle, still to price. Would be nice if Shimano Deore Di2 came to mtb.
Wireless will get cheaper once Shimano releases its version. Competition means cheaper prices.
For only $200 more you can get the XO1 instead of the GX, just saying.
I think I'll echo the point made earlier by Hardtail Party: Geometry is free.
It would be a big change to the really budget end of the industry if the frames at this price point start having "better" or more progressive/agressive geometry, or more variety to choose from. As someone in Southeast Asia, most if not all of the affordable entry level brands currently coming out here still have geometry that leans toward XC racing. Think of really steep HTAs, squashed reach values and even old school sizing. These are from the same factories that produce for the mainstream brands, mind, so theres little doubt on the quality. It is kind of lost potential, since we're stuck with old school geometry. And there isn't much of a supply issue with the budget end, judging by how all the local LBSs I visit have resupplies of these bikes on around a bi-weekly basis.
The cost of the activity is high in regards to the equipment. But when I was thinking about something that I could do as an activity or hobby in my spare time, I weighed the value in terms of what I will gain from doing it. The fun factor was high. However, spending the money on a hobby that I just sit around and do to enjoy is all well and good. But an activity that gives back in health terms and is fun and enjoyable at the same time is much more sensible. I see it as an investment in mental and physical health. Money well spent in my opinion.
The wealth privilege and elitism are strong in this video. Mountain biking is expensive, hands down, even if it doesn't feel expensive to you or I. Even if you can find a used bike under $300, that bike is almost certainly going to need maintenance or repairs in short order. It's a huge disservice to our sport to lie about the expense not only to enter, but to maintain access to all kinds of cycling, and it won't get better if we don't address that.
People blame the bike industry for “ripping us off” but the bike industry isn’t particularly profitable. Taking a quick look at the financials of giant (the only listed bike assembler I could think of) shows gross profit margins of around 20pct, operating margins of below 10, and net margins around 5. This is in line with manufacturing businesses in Asia in hyper competitive markets, with little ability to price for differentiation or brand. Given how many competitors they have, this makes some sense but I actually expected them to be a bit more profitable due to scale and, presumably, low cost production.
Giant, however, is an assembler in a competitive market, there are less competitive sub markets. Looking at Shimano, they make over 20pct operating margin and around 15% net. This would be in the region of a high value add manufacturer in Asia. If you want to know who would be making this kind of profit, just look at the pinkbike polls. If the brands people are buying are concentrated, there is a good chance of higher profitability. SRAM, fox and Maxxis come to mind ). But even here, we are not talking about crazy gouging but manufacturers selling 15pct above cost.
The other part of the value chain is retailing. I can’t think of any bike retailer with public accounts but I also don’t know of any bike shop owners living like they’re in a rap video.
So why are bikes so expensive, especially vs dirt bikes, the oft quoted comparable. My guess is the main issue is scale. There are dozens of manufacturers, each making maybe 5 to 10 models each in 5 different sizes. Just look at the stroke options for a single model of fox shock. Compare this to dirt bikes, where 4 or 5 major makers have 4 or 5 models in each category with as many cross shared parts as possible and no sizing within models and far fewer options. As such, Yamaha’s dirt bike profit margins are double giant’s on what seems to be higher value add (it has a freaking motor!) and similar prices In some cases.
The next issue will be product life cycle. Mountain bikes change and change fast. Set up your production line to make, say 275 rims and the following year you’re retooling, as an example. Now, before you blame the industry for this, think again. Only in a few sub markets do the industry players have the market power to force standard changes (think drive trains). In a market as competitive as bikes, the industry is driven by competitive demands. I’m sure giant et al would LOVE to sell mountain bike frames on fully depreciated lines with minimal r and d, like the frames on a Yamaha dirt bike, but they can’t because you won’t buy them. Product life cycles seem to be shortening, as well. My v2 nomad had a 6 year life cycle, now my v4 is dated at 3.
So if you want to know why mountain bikes are so expensive, look in the mirror. It is you that demands a bike almost fully customized to your needs and preferences- needs and preferences that change quickly year to year. In fairness to you, however, this tends to happen in younger industries with reasonably high tech changes. When tech improvement slows I suspect you’ll hold on to you bikes longer, the small companies will be swallowed by the large, scale will be achieved, costs will fall and competition will drive down prices.
I was getting angry because these comments convinced me to think that big bike companies were ripping us off because of my small knowledge about bike production etc. This comment explained the topic very clearly and made me more ok with the pricing of modern bikes. Thanks. I think stuff will get better in the future for Mountainbiking.
Good to hear Cannondale is talking about developing entry level bikes.
We at Kenyan Riders cycling team have been trying to figure out how can we have a rigid single speed MTB produced they can handle the punishment Africa will dish out.
Developing the amazing endurance talent of East Africa
I have a Scott scale, really tough bikes and good value, where can I get one of your jerseys?
Yani you guys mtb there. I’m from Canada and live in Nairobi need some spots
Used cars are an even better deal.
Speaking of ripoffs though, have you seen bike rack prices? Here in the US, you can buy a larger used old vehicle for cheaper just to transport your bike in! Vehicle registration taxes are quite low but insurance can be high depending on where you live exactly.
wow....this should be a EMBN topic with the latest "Specialized Turbo Levo" as a prime example. I would be very interested in the BS justifying that price!
if u think Specialized is expensive then go check out Yeti, they only make carbon bikes.
@@anabohueles2243 12 £k for the turbo levo is taking the piss.
@@craig2622 Ummmm....13 £K...😂😂😂
And there’s Santa Cruz’s emtb’s to use as an example...
The KTM eMoto is about the same price if not cheaper. Granted it’s just as expensive if not more so to maintain.
@@setransou Yeah but Santa Cruz has a lot of prestige, that's why our bikes are so expensive
The question is what is the real price per bike.
Near 99.9% bikes are made in China and the manufacturing and material cost are cheap actually, around 1/6 retail price. Most of the profits are taken by the brand holders.
Probably costs around £200 for the materials bought in bulk and then to put the bike together probably costs about £100
Buy n sell in every trade from news agent to car dealer 1/3rd... service station mark up to 5x original purchase price
One thing that is frustrating is how unreliable the bikes all are. I literally get two rides before something is wrong with my bike. I have several bikes from lower end to high end and it’s all the same as far as reliability. The higher end bikes perform better and allow me to push them harder but still always breaking. Been that way since early 90s Mtb’s in my experience.
Normal person budget: a few hundred dollars
A mtb-ers budget: 1600 dollar minimum
Only for the bike
Also you need gear protection tools and spares
Bike 1700€ for a hardtail ( nukeproof scout min spec or, Ragley Big al 2 2021 min spec)
Protection helmet 200€
Chest 140€
Tools: extra 2tubes 28€, chain lube 14, Pump 36€, multi tool 40€, protection tape 80€
Total 2300€
I am in greece
MTB IS EXPENSIVE
Had a Trek in my sights but the Fuel ex5 went from £1750 to £2100 and the Fuel ex7 went from £2400 to £2750. Bloody piss take.
COVID price gouging... they became in demand, it was a sellers market... they cashed in... many did... last year's models are not discounted to clear, they are gone at full price...
can relate so hard to the first 30 secs of this video about telling your family about biking
I told a colleague how much my bike cost and her response was "Wow, you're spending that much and you still have to pedal" 🤣
Same. Mom told my girlfriend behind my back, "I don't know why he has two bikes! He can't ride both at the same time" She doesn't get the difference between a Cannondale Flash XC bike and a Giant Glory DH bike. SMH
@@CalQaida wow XC vs DH! Surely they look different even to a non biker. The dual crown fork at least looks crazy
@@tobylestrange4081 I hear you. My mom is from the era where there was one category. "Bicycle"
@@CalQaida same!
The sport is really held back by the prices no doubt. But consider this. How much is it worth to you to have less crowding on the trails? As it is, I don’t ever feel like there are too many trail users that it significantly effects my enjoyment where I ride, but, it is getting close to that level. If bikes were more affordable, I’d probably end up riding less just due to crowds. There is no economic justification for the outrageously overpriced products in this category other than the fact we are buying it, but, it does have a benefit to us. Food for thought.
Still for most people 1000 $£€ for a bike is not afordable level.
Yeah... and the same people can spend 1000$ for an Iphone...
@@steevbec764 if it’s someone getting into the sport, it’s a different story because it might just end up losing them a lot of money. a phone is something that basically everyone uses every day to some extent
@xirsamoht x very true. In my country it is a lot and earning average wage after all bills i think it is matter of 4-5 months of saving.
@@steevbec764 that is something completly different. Matter of priorities i guess
@xirsamoht x Yeah that is true but that's not all we gotta pay to live tho
It's always been expensive usually as something gets more popular it gets cheaper this is the opposite with Mtb. You have a different bike for so many disciplines it's ridiculous, but as long as people keep buying these new trends and excuses for selling a slightly different kind of bike.
I've been into mtb since the early 90s if I was trying to get into the sport now I don't think I could, unless paper rounds wages have gone through the roof.
@@kramer450 the more you manufacture the cheaper it gets that's a fact. Which is my point take phones. First phones came out they were hugely expensive now they are cheap considering what you get on them.
It's spoiling mountain biking making it unaccessible to the many.
@@kramer450 I just worry for mtb, I just think average kids today could no way afford it. If these groups don't get into it like I did the sport will start hurting. When I started in the 90s mbuk did entry level tests at bikes starting at £300 but now entry levels over £1500 and we all know entry level need upgrading quick
@@kramer450 back in the 90s we were lucky I guess having cross country and downhill, now there seems to be bikes for so many different surfaces. Just a money maker for manufacturers. Tbh I am getting more pleasure from restoring a wreck as cheaply as possible. That's one thing I have always hated about mtb the snobbery and one up manship. I just think now more fool them blowing so much cash on the latest fad.
I think more bike companies need to focus on the lower end, ditch the daft adverts (YT I'm looking you) and really shape the market from the bottom up.
There’s nothing stopping people from rocking 10 year old hardtails on 26” wheels. People seem to want all the benefits of the latest and greatest tech, but none of the costs. It is not a cheap sport, but new bikes are incredible.
Youre saying that it doesnt have to be expensive if you just dont look at the top models and you can be satisfied with a 3000€ bikes. And of course you can, BUT for most people in my experience 8000 9000€ is unimaginable. 2000 3000€ is a lot of money. Prices were going down and they hit bottom in about 2017 and are just going up from then imo.
Yup not a lotta guys can afford €2000 just for a few hour ride...
Expensive bikes have also expensive maintenance and spare part costs, a 1 X 12 drive train has a expensive cassette and a expensive chain to replace from time to time
Covid has really created a shortage of bikes, which will drive the price up due to shortage conditions. Before Covid you could buy last years model at a substantial discount, not anymore.
@@irfuel slightly used mountain bikes and kayaks are going to be for sale everywhere in a couple years.
@@qpwdfgh4939 then get a 500 dollar bike that is adequate for the vast majority of trails (specialized rockhopper base, vitus nucleus, schwinn axum). Do people forget than cheaper options exist?
Direct distributers cut out the middle man, that´s true - but they keep the margin for themselves. The customer is really not the winner in this game :) Their bikes cost the same as every others.
True- some are even more expensive than other good brands bought at shops!
Great interview! Thanks for sharing
That purple Muddy Fox with yellow sprinkles was the first mountainbike I ever rode! There was a rental station next to my cousin‘s house back in the day. Must have been in 1990 or 1991. We had so much fun on this bikes and the got me into this great sport.
It's like any other popular product,supply and demand is the main reason for price increase. Unfortunately the bike industry appears to be pricing itself way above the affordability of most. Won't surprise me if lease schemes appear next. So long as we pay for these great products the prices will creep up. Happy riding folks
My problem was I bought a hardtail £900, decent helmet then a rack for car, then wind proof stuff so on so on, then if your not local to a big trail like me it's £50 in fuel for a decent ride it all adds up..
I live in a great area for mountain biking so I don’t use the car very often but I see where you’re coming from
Don't forget that even the trails that are being developed now require things like annual subscriptions or ridiculous daily rates🤨
My helmet cost $29, my rack is the inside of my minivan, my windproof stuff is 10 years old from hiking, and my drive to the ride is 20 min max.
Dude, there's cheaper ways to do all that. I mean that respectfully, im just saying.
@@marcalvarez4890 my bike is non-existent, and I cant afford a car, there are no close mountain bike trails this hobby would be 3k - 4k min. So for me nothing about this is cheap.
@@centipedekid9824 A good bike can be had for under 1k. You can get a good fixie for 600$. BMX can be had for 100$ on craigs list.
You can do this!
I think the expense comes from the mountains of carbon frames that have failed quality control. No way to rectify the mistakes and no way to recycle. Someone has to pay for all the waste and its the customer.
This was a really great video . As we have seen in the comments of some of the others videos not everyone has thousands of pounds spare but of course still want to be able to get out there and have fun .
That's what's great about party pace and other such movements, doing it for the enjoyment rather than bragging rights of having the latest gizmo for the sake of it. I'm getting more pleasure spending the least possible getting an old bike back on the trails.
For a good cheap high quality bike, I would suggest trail centre rental bikes for sale. My local does this all the time. They tend to be of good spec capable and super well serviced. Yes they have done some miles, but all come with warranty and a well experienced mechanic servicing them. They had a 2018 whyte full suspension for under £750. Keep your eyes open folks, bargains to be had. 😀
Offerup is amazing. Waiting another week to get a Specialized Rock hopper Pro 29er for hopefully $550. Bike listed at $1150 brand new. Hopefully he still has it when I have the money.
Artificially they put the prices up. It is all about money 💵. This is my opinion after written two Dissertations on bikes and technology. Good points on the video but same like with a car . Easiest is to buy it but to be able to maintain it after is a completely different scenario.
Prices have gotten out of hand.
I’d genuinely like to see GMBN do a video on whether or not buying a direct to consumer bike is screwing over local bike shops or not, in the long run. There are many direct sales bikes I’m interested in, but I also don’t want to see bike shops close due to online purchases.
I would argue its the manufacturers overpricing their kit that's killing bike shops, not the direct to customer brands. The prices are out of control as it is, let alone add a retailer overhead to that.
@@Synysterjmz Ya that’s definitely part of it. The shops end up caught in the middle. It’s just hard to ignore saving a couple grand when anyone can get a top of the line nukeproof, commencal, etc.. for the price of a middle range build Santa Cruz or Ibis. But at the same time no one wants to feel like a jackass walking in with it being like sorry guys I’m adding to the collapse of your business model. - But yes I would hope they would want to do maintenance on any bike brought in.
It is, on top of that there are big chains who take up all orders. A small bike shop here can not order Scott mountainbikes anymore because of a chain bumping him out of his contract. He can only service them. So yes, it is hurting them in sales because you cut out their profit when ordering a bike and ordering directly from Scott is same price as when ordering from a dealer too so Scott takes a double dip in margin.
Companies: greedy
Bike: expensive
Not the rich: income says no
MTB is definitely overly expensive as it’s a sellers market, people want the best of best and to look the part with the top end gear. This transcends across most things nowadays, consumerism rules almost everyone.
I’m getting ready to do a ground up build on a lightly used 09 mongoose Canaan elite. Going through the parts list ouch lol on the good stuff . Budget build here we come lol.
A moto x magazine did it's homework in the early 90s, I think it was for a suzuki RM250, they priced every component separately and it came to over £22k, shows you how much profit there is in spares
I test rode a Santa Cruz Chameleon C SE when they were 1st released, price for a complete was around £7k. I loved it but could no way justify the price. I then priced up building the bike myself and realised I could buy the exact same parts at full rrp for £6.2k. 2 years on the price has now dropped to £5.4k. Makes you wonder if SC priced the bike at £7k simply because they could, how many people paid full price and didn’t realise they were being ripped off...
@@leeghathaway think it's a bit like cars, we know the quality is there so we pay a premium for the badge.......unless you drive a vauxhall like me 😀
"With time it becomes more and more inexpensive." What a crockBS! I have been looking at Sram groupset Nx and GX but price don't fall.
I think it’s important to stress to most ppl and especially beginners that they don’t need to spend a lot for the type of riding most ppl will actually be doing. Its also important to be aware of what to spend money on. The best investments you can make on a bike are on your tyres and pedals. Upgrading them will make a “bad” bike feel like a “good” bike.
The thing is, even beginner bikes are getting ridiculous. Some people don't want to invest $600-$800 on a bike they might not like. I saw a video where the guy showed a $1200 bike and literally said the phrase, "It's good, for what it is." Talked about how it wasn't worth it to upgrade.
That's a huge problem. If there's a comma in the price, it should be worth it to upgrade, not, "Just get a more expensive bike." I could go to Dick's Sporting Goods and get me a GT for $475. But then I looked at the reviews and chains were snapping and people complained about the wheels. Why can't we get an adequate bike for under $500, decent for $750 and good for $1k?
I know this is GMBN, but road bikes are just as bad, if not worse. I'm seeing fixies now going for $1k, no brakes, fixed gear only. Basically, $1k for a bike you can't ride on the streets because it's illegal in a lot of cities. And they're marketed to people to ride in the streets and commute on them. It's an industry wide problem, even before COVID.
@@dvs620 if only other buyers and company's could all read your comment and get some sense knocked into them
Got myself an one one deedar a few years back and I've not looked at another bike since. So glad I didn't get the 1x12, the parts are ridiculous prices. This 1x11 is better than any other groupset I've had
What I want to know is why my Nukeproof Scout Pro I just bought was 2449 GBP and $2499 in dollars? Not that I’m complaining, but if you do the currency conversion it should be around $3,400.
I've discussed this a lot with a friend of mine, we marvel when you go to a local park with some pretty tame 'trails' and it's a see of Santa Cruz, Yeti, Pivot, Kashima as far as the eye can see etc...
Ultimately the bike cost what they do because people are prepared to pay it. I've pushed my personal limit on what I want to spend on a bike ordering an aluminum Orbea Oiz. At $3300 it's thousands cheaper than carbon 'super bikes', but it's still a huge amount of money for a bike!
Same story here in INdiana. MTB snob/dentist rolling around on the latest and greatest $10k rig and they can barely clip in. Mountain Biking is the new golf.
Excellent video thanks fella 👍
When i got into mtbiking in 2006 top end products were quite accessibile , with 3 months pay i could get a super top notch bike, now i would have to work at least 6 to 7 months to get the today's modern equivilent !! They contain prices making and branding stuff in house. Their frames are made in Europe not China!
Thanks for the video, Neil & Co. I started with the most expensive bike at Walmart - $279 in 2007! I grew to love riding and upgraded in 2017 to a Giant full suspension for $2200, a shocking amount! When that bike was stolen, I replaced it with a 2021 Norco carbon full susp for $4,500, now an understandable amount. And at each step, my skills grew and I could use the new bike better.
As for price, It’s a matter of economics. In all industries, companies will charge “as much as the market will bear”. That’s not wrong, it’s just business. They couldn’t charge that much if no one would buy, or rather enough people would buy. We want nice bikes. So we will pay up to what we’re willing to, as individuals.
Sorry, but bike company CEO’s are aren’t known for getting rich, flying around in corporate jets! They tend to be folks that love the sport!
I agree that the bike industry spends too much effort pushing the high end and that can lead to some gate keeping in the community because it validates the toxic elitist attitude some people can have. It's difficult though because the pros need that high level goodness and only continue to get free stuff if they can sell bikes as a result.
Great interview
Very interesting discussion with Nick Larsen, how times have changed in the bike industry?!!!
PS. Nice Levi's denim truckers jacket, as well; which jacket model, is that Nick?
Great topic to cover! Bikes are currently very expensive, with some brands like specialised & Santa Cruz burning holes in many people's pockets.
There are however some brands that do well to keep the price reasonable for what your getting. The new Saracen Ariel range seem brilliant, also the cube stereo range (e incl.) Are decent bang for your buck.
Propain are a brilliant company for this there freeride range start at 3000 and come with rockshock zebs and such
@@TheGamingChamp101 100% mate it's all about the suspension that's where alot of the money is
@@eXposureGR4PHICS Carbon frames can be 50-60% of the total cost of the bike, too.
Honest answers in that interview, awesome.
I see a guy most weekends with a £5k ebike casually pottering around the local pump track with his daughter in tow. He’s a good 18st so is no way getting any off road miles in.
❤️🤟🏻 Love the videos guys !
...trailcenters out in the hills...
Here in Germany Most trails are illegal because the forestry service still lives in the 19th century.
I have the 2017 RockyMountain Element 990 RSL and still performance well. Over years I’ve upgrade this and that and now it’s worth more what’s on the bike but it’s part of enjoying mtb trails. I also own an 06 CBR1000RR and equipments to go with it, so yes it is expensive to have fun sometimes.
It would be interesting to find out what the dealer and distributor markups are on new bikes. I can't imagine the raw materials are more than half the price of the bike. Yes, R&D is a cost and warranty claims, etc. My first mountain bike which I bought a couple years ago used was $2000 CAD. I'm currently waiting for the arrival of my new Orbea Rise which is $12,500 CAD. Ouch!
Great video and an important question to ask! With the bike industry booming and Corona limiting supply, it's obviously a bad time to be a consumer. Companies will change _as much_ as they can get away with and why wouldn't they? Noone is going to turn down free money, right?
As consumers, I think we need to be more price aware and put pressure on manufacturers. Most people will be absolutely fine on a steel/alloy hardtail with alloy wheels and a Shimano Deore or Microshift Advent X groupset. As an example, SRAM AXS is nice, I'm sure, but it's just ridiculously overpriced for what it is.
Was just talking with my neighbor about how expensive it is. Literally 60 usd just to get 1 new tire. Let a lone any other component
Mtb is a complete money pit and it’s sad. They know Johnny Dentist is going to pay for the latest and greatest bullshit.
As somebody getting back into it I’m quite surprised by the prices. Especially for the more run of the mill alu hard tails. When you think about how many chainsets must roll off productions lines in Asia each hour along with the mass produced frames the cost of a new bike is phenomenal. Amazes me that a tubeless tire measuring 29x2.5 can cost £55 is incredible. To think a 18x8.5 branded tyre for my bmw can cost just twice that shows how many insane the hobby is. Or a helmet costing £200 which is £50 more than the child seat I just purchased for my car...
everything eventually gets cheaper 25 years ago a bog standard rock shox Jude would of set you back about 400 quid ,in todays money that might be about 600 ,but for a similar price you get a lot more advanced tech fork which back in the day would of been priced out of the market for everybody other than a team rider or sponsored privateer ,having said that I do think modern bike companies could drop prices by about 15% and still make good profits and still would be able to research and develop the next big thing in biking
Yeah but that’s still prices going up, it probably costs them very little to build especially when they buy materials in bulk
@@fazza2104 prices will always go up
With inflation ,but when we take that out of the equation what you get now for your money is a lot more advanced then what you got for a similar price point in say 91/92
@CZcamsLoser yeah they prob had which is why I think rrp should be about 15% Less
I bought a 2nd hand Calibre triple b v1 for £650 prior to the cornholio virus, almost 1.5yrs later they are going for 1k plus second hand.....nuts
I bought a mondraker dune 3 year ago for 1400 off a mate at mates rates which are fetching around 1800-2k now, before all corn bs you could get one for around 1k-1200. Someone nicked it and I struggled to get anything in same ball park for 1600 and ended up getting a nukeproof mega. Prices of everything's gone to shite and now the manufactures have had a taste of the added wealth they'll never come back down
£500 hard tails are great entry point for starting off only problem is usually rubbish forks, which you can end up paying another £500 to upgrade, so depending on what you are looking to do I’d say spend at least £1000 with scope to upgrade small bits like bars, dropper post etc at a later date. Also I think it can be expensive but it depends on where you ride and what you want to do and also what your skill set is. Ie a someone new to riding isn’t going to be able to utilise at the advantages of £10k+ bike, all the gear no idea, although I feel like that on a Tesco bike! 😜
I was on Specialized website and they have a full suspension E-mountain bike for $14,500.
rip-off, imo.
If you feel it’s too expensive start doing something about it. Replace your drivetrain with Microshift (less than $200 complete). Use a Suntour air or Manitou fork. But the $30 WTB saddle when you need one. Rims and tires that aren’t tubeless ready are much cheaper. Get last years Giro entry level helmet on sale for $40. There are ways to keep the cost down
I don't really get why is it so expensive because you can get a dirtbike with larger and stronger weels, brakes a motor... For the same price of a bike that weighs half, and the cost of the production can't be so high
but I'm not about the high end bikes
Love the vids gmbn
You forgot about the top of the line sworks turbo levo. $19,300 CAD
This is a very difficult topic. Like the content a lot. Some cheap brand out on the market e.g. Haibike or Cannondale and many more show that mountainbiking doesn't have to be expensive.
However if you could afford a bike that costs a bit more with some factories you support the local production. With the awareness shifted towards good working conditions employee protection gets overlooked. Hopefully this will be solved in the future.
Interesting video - I've actually been meaning to look at this way back when but never got around to it... economies of scale have my vote - I did actually get a mid-range used motorcycle for a similar amount you'd get for a mid-range new-ish MTB... plus with pandemic the costs for used bikes are getting silly, especially with many of the brands mentioned in this vid being out of stock for the new ones. Maybe they'd sell more of the entry-level bikes if they've just included Fox / RockShox fork stickers to go over those SR Suntours :D
I recently bought a calibre bossnut quality full sus bike for only £1100. Don’t need to spend Mega to get a good quality bike you can have fun on
Also, let's not forget that the sale price is just the start. Mountain bikes take a pounding, so a lot of components have to be replaced or serviced, so the ownership cost is huge. My guess is you spend 50-75% of the sale price of the bike on upkeep.
For a beginner who doesn't want to spend much on a mountainbike it is best to look at second hand bikes. For example my mom wanted to get into mtb at a later age but she doesn't have any experience riding off road on a bike but she rides her city bike all the time so I went looking for an older mtb with a light frame. Eventually I found a Stevens manic 2010 ( originally weight 10.5 kg/23.15 Ibs) with a better fox air suspension from 2014, we picked it up and I upgraded it with a shorter stem and a modern handlebar for comfort. After servicing and adjusting shifters / derailleurs it has all the nice features like air suspension, light frame and good hydraulic brakes. For an allround price of 400 euros she doesnt have to be afraid to damage a new expensive mtb with the same features. She said it rode like a dream and has never experienced something that rides so light and easy and that is exactly what I thought she would say because beginners do not have the experience to feel a huge difference from newer parts.
thank you for this video :D
As my company uses Halfords C2W, could you review the Boardman and Voodoo full suspension range please so we can get an honest opinion on them, I've been looking at the MTR 9.0, what's your thoughts?
I bought the lowest priced Orbea Mtn bike and my wife was still shocked at the price. Gotta sneak the upgrades into the house when she's not home. LOL I concentrate on frame and wheels and what config gearset I want. SRAM SX rear derailleurs are stock on cheaper hardtails, but upgrade easily to GX. SX and NX gearsets fit Shimano hubs and still work fine with GX derailleurs. Hydraulic brakes up grade as well whenever you are ready. Same with dropper posts, forks, etc. Motobecane 29" hardtails can be found for $1000.
I feel like they are trying to be safe here. Mountain biking is expensive and there's no justifiable reason for it, just like any other niche recreational sports. Cost of manufacturing, raw materials etc. don't even come close to what's in the price tag. It's hard to spill anything when you're sponsored and it's understandable.
I think that what you are saying is wrong. How about doing some research on it?
$450-$600 bikes are not bad. Had one before and it was pretty decent. The problem with them is if you are even moderately seriously about riding you’ll outgrow them well before they get worn out and then your looking at buying a better bike. Also at least in the US for most people 450 to 600 is no small expense that’s still a significant purchase and you still have to get at least a proper helmet which can be anywhere from 60 or more and maintenance and so on, it adds up. The sport is not cheap at all.
That's my problem with the sport I cant even join because I know I'm going to outgrow any entry priced bike in a month
What I've noticed is bikes are getting more expensive while the component spec goes down. Granted, the lower end components are still very good due to trickle down tech, but the higher end parts have gotten crazy expensive! $400 hundred for a cassette that will wear out and need to be replaced....OUCH!!!!!!
If youre not racing and requiring marginal gains, the cut off point for spending is the point at which the upgrade makes no difference to your conscious experience of riding the bike
What is interesting to me is many manufactures restrict their sales to your country of origin. I live in Australia, and the cost of the SRAM AXS rear mech is 56% more that i could get it in the EU. Also the range is much more restricted than you can get overseas.
on-line stores like wiggle, bike24, chain reaction etc are prohibited from selling SRAM, Shimano etc from the US, EU or UK to Australia - to get around this wiggle/chain reaction have a small and poorly stocked Australian warehouse.
Direct to consumer brands are cheaper and you can't buy some many brands of complete bikes in Australia unless you buy from the local bike store as a walk in customer.
So in some cases it can be cheaper to fly/drive to a large city to get a deal and go home than to use the Local bike shop if you want a particular branded bike at a better price.
It's expensive because people pay for it. Just look at the savings offered by reputable Chinese frame manufacturers like ICAN and Trifox, because the cost of their frames doesn't include Nino Schurter's salary and an entire support team/logistics and loads of marketing B/S
Some of the pricing is simply ludicrous for the technology and materials on offer - especially when compared to motorised vehicles. Even videos like this simply contribute to pricing anchoring ie making high prices seem reasonable by comparison with even higher ones.
A cool idea would be for all of the GMBN crew to buy a second hand bike on a budget, and do a series of challenges. Similiar to the Top Gear episodes!
Thst would be extremely fun to watch
you not seen the £100 bike challenge?
[First an aside, a friend reminded me recently that "Racing is a rich man's sport, always has been" and that really doesn't change whether were talking horses or bikes].
About three years ago the consumer authorities in my country became very concerned about the high cost of bicycles in the retail market and conducted an investigation. They found that the major bike retailers were colluding to fix bike prices and in fact many of them were fined for anti-competitive behaviour. I'm sure the industry is rife with this kind of thing in several other countries as well.
Good show Neil. Zero VAT on bikes are among the measures needed in the UK after lockdown, according to the Bicycle Association. All new bikes; road / mountain / urban are overpriced as they are sold with value added tax that defines them as luxury items. We still live in a petrol based economy that is car biased, so not getting into conspiracies but for economic reasons I would that its likely there are people with influence who have a vested interest in keeping higher quality reliable bikes inaccessible to the general public.