The Tragedy of Shoeless Joe Jackson
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2020
- Creator: Matt
Twitter: / srsmatt
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Joseph Jackson was one of the greatest natural hitters to ever play baseball, but remains locked out of Cooperstown to this day. He began as a poor boy working at a South Carolinian cotton mill, working his way up to dominating the major leagues. Let's talk about Jackson's journey, and why he deserves to be reinstated and put on the Hall of Fame ballot.
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Background Music In The Video - • The Tragedy of Shoeles... - Sport
4:55 I think may have chopped off Babe Ruth’s face
Stark raving sports lol
You did.
. mad sounds
Go the distance
Nah. I just checked, he’s not there. He must have moved
If anybody is in the vicinity of Greenville SC please visit the Joe Jackson museum in his old house which was moved next to minor league ballpark. He was a true childhood baseball prodigy. He led every minor league he played in in batting average. He could not have participated in throwing the Series w his statistics in series. He had the only home run and no errors among other stats. He was simply linked to the crime by corrupt gamblers who knew his name would bring more wagering in series.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Joe Jackson the Shoeless? I thought not. It's not a story the MLB would tell you. It's a White Sox legend. Shoeless Joe was an outfielder of the White Sox, so good of a hitter that he could hit .400 in a season... He became so powerful...the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he couldn't read, and his teammates killed his career in 1919. Ironic. He could help other get into the hall of fame, but not himself.
I love this reference 😂😂
Lol.....dead....🤣🤣🤣
this is beautiful
I agree, they got rid of him because he was better than them. Shame, shame, shame!
Luke Bennett ahhh classic Star Wars reference! 👏🏻
“Jackson’s fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning.”
- Connie Mack, A’s manager, 1901 to 1950
Amen to what Connie Mack said about Joe Jackson.
Come again?1 You mammy work.
If the Cheating Astros are allowed to keep their title Joe Jackson should be in the Hall of Fame
Oh... My... God.....the poor innocent Codgers ; as if Justin Turner is such a saint; it seemed the Rays were asked to put on the brakes. ..and Betts??? I just got my mini statue of the greatest of all time. ..Joe Buck , ad nausea. ..
@@rossb.4773 Well I am unaware of any cheating scandal perpetrated by Justin Turner. If you have evidence then I endorse you forwarding it to Jomboy. As far as pulling Blake Snell, I didn't understand it then, still don't but I am happy it happened. The investigation never went far enough to implicate Betts but what we do have is undeniable PROOF that the entire Houston Astros team was aware that at least some of them were actively cheating through the entire season, the ALDS, ALCS and the World Series.The coaches and managers were aware. It was an illegitimate World Series. I'm not saying give it to the Dodgers
there should be no Champion because you can't say one way or the other who would have won between the Dodgers and Yankees.
@@dodgerblue7381 there’s literally no evidence that the astros cheated in the playoffs
@@camdavis6433 yeah right. No evidence of their cheating in 2017? If you are saying that what are you smoking?
@@dodgerblue7381 I think cam is referring to the fact that no audible trash can banging was heard throughout the playoffs theres no doubt they cheated during the regular season as you can clearly hear the trash cans banging but I've watched that world series multiple times and heard no banging. I recommend watching foolish baseballs video with jomboy as he goes more in depth with it
I live in Greenville SC where he is from and used to play most of my games at shoeless Joe jackson field. Nobody around here had forgotten about that legend. Ever.
White Sox fans haven’t either. After over 100 years. Ask any fan from age 10 until still living. I think it would bring a smile to your face on how White Sox fans are still so passionate that he isn’t a HOF
He needs to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame
I would think that most baseball fans actually have heard of Shoeless Joe Jackson.
That’s the point he was making. No one knows his real name, his real story, etc. just his nickname and the story that all baseball fans know.
My favorite all time player. I would at least like to see a statue of him at Cellular Field if not enshrined at HOF
I am a life long Sox fan and I believe it's time to give the great Shoeless Joe his due
I still call it Comiskey Park 2.
How do you feel about Barry Bonds?
I agree
Being banned for life while putting up those numbers in the WS is criminal
@Fugp Basis some of y’all just can’t accept the fact he didn’t cheat
good point
There was an extremely detailed breakdown of that series that really makes you think.
If he was as great with the bat as his stats suggest, and then you look at the situations in which he had a chance to bat (I'd have to dig to find it, it's been a few years) It really seems like "didn't flip the switch" when he should have.
He hit a HR....in a blowout, he got hits only when runners weren't in scoring position but when he had RISP he suddenly....didn't get hits.
It's definitely suspicious that such a brilliant hitter magically, only got hits when they weren't meaningful in that series. Sadly, everyone on that team was going to get lumped together but when you do some digging on those numbers and the situations it starts to look very suspect. Numbers alone simply do not tell the entire story at all.
@@TheGLORY13 Plus Shoeless Joe still took the money so even if he wasn't trying to lose, the guy didn't help his case by accepting the bribe to begin with.
@@iamhungey12345 yup 100%
I did an entire report on why he should be reinstated so it feels good to see someone else agree with me
Shoeless Joe Jackson is my Great Great Uncle. Thank you, I loved this video.
You should get a petition for him to be in the Hall of Fame.
It has been an ongoing thing for awhile. But not giving up.
@@christopherhall4182 keep it going. They are still fighting over Buck Weaver to this day.
Lies.....deception!
@@garygood6804 K
Field of Dreams and Eight Men Out taught me all about Joe Jackson :)
Here's a thought - if Jackson were never banned from baseball, would he be as remembered as he is now? Other people who have hit over .400 (like Nap Lajoie, Hugh Duffy, and Harry Heilmann) are names only baseball aficionados would recognize. For better or worse, Shoeless Joe Jackson remains one of the most well-known baseball figures, even outside the sport. He is, ironically, more memorable BECAUSE he is not in the Hall.
I'm not saying letting him in the Hall of Fame is a bad idea, because I agree that he should be in it. But it's an interesting what-if scenario if "we got our wish" after all.
I recall a SF short where President Lincoln avoids the Civil War & is never thought of again. A better fate?
Perhaps, but he was so good, I'm sure he would have been remembered.
He would have played into his 40's if they let him.
Edit: He swung a 36 inch, 48 ounce bat...and made great contact. The guy was strong and quick with the bat. He was a natural athlete. He could have had milestone numbers.
I don’t know, I think Jackson could’ve been better than all three of those guys. For his career, he hit for a 0.356 AVG with a 0.423 OBP and a 0.940 OPS over 4,981 AB. I wonder how the rest of his career would’ve turned out.
Everyone should learn about Nap Lajoie. He's the only player (that I know of) that had a major league team named after him. Cleveland was known as the Cleveland Naps while he was playing for them. I love that fact.
Now if I could only remember how to pronounce his name lol
I live in Greenville there is a statue to shoeless Joe in our downtown area near the minor league teams ball park
That’s really cool
Babe Ruth modeled his stance and swing from "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. "Shoeless" Joe deserves the Hall of Fame
You can tell in that pic around 2:30
One of the worst snubs ever, he loved the game and they screwed him over
Landis sure did. The story the best represents that is when Ty Cobb visited his liquor store year later. Cobb ask him after sone time " Joe don't you recognize me?" Joe's response. "I didn't think anyone up there wanted to remember me."
Idk where you guys come up with these ideas but this is what I love. Random stories I never knew I needed lol
Baseball history is beautiful I hope he does video on Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige
@@SaltoDaKid Satchel Paige certainly deserves more love
.......And Gibson is A Home Run King! In the Dead Ball era...Big!
I knew all those names above! I guess I AM a Baseball Aficionado!
Ken Burns
Eight men out was one of my favorite movies growing up
same here but rewatched it a few months and there is something lacking. I mean The Natural, Major League or Bull Durham are just way more entertaining. Still I would recommend it if you are baseball fan.
The visuals of today’s baseball in big stadiums while narration talks about Shoeless Joe playing on his cotton mill’s team in 1910...?!!! wtf
i dont think hes "locked out greatness" just the fact that folks are still talking about him a century after he was banned proves his greatness
Just a quick note: A full regular season at the time he played was only 140 games. You showed his average hits for a 162 game season, which is fine as it gives the modern generation a good idea at what he might have done if he had played in today's game. It becomes much more impressive when you consider his seasons were 22 games shorter. Now factor in that he played in more than 100 games in only 9 of his 13 seasons and suddenly 1772 hits becomes a truly Herculean feat in any era. Now step back and look at his hits compared to total career games played and finally you see the true greatness that was Shoeless Joe Jackson: 1772 hits in just 1332 games. More than just the stuff of Legends, that's the stuff of Mythologies!
Deserves to be a Hall of Famer
I think the movie 8 Men Out is a pretty good representation of the situation. D.B. Sweeny plays the role of Shoeless Joe perfectly. Makes him both sympathetic and honest. I wasn't alive then so who knows if it's accurate but the character is likable and innocent so I'm a fan. Let Joe into the HoF.
The author had admitted to have taken some liberties.
He batted .375 and was perfect in the field, I wouldn’t call that throwing the series 😂
Exactly man think he wouldn't hit .375 if he did lol I'm a White Sox fan he might never be in the HOF and it's a shame
There was a 1988 movie called "Eight men out" that dramatised the Black Sox scandal. It was quite sympathetic to Shoeless Joe.
Incredibly sympathetic. I think that's why Ken Burns miniseries went gunning for him like it did.
They’re finding now most of it was biased and not totally accurate
Him and Pete Rose both belong in the HOF.
100% agree!
Jackson also bought his parents the "best house in the neighborhood" when he signed his first big contract with Cleveland. Joe was a man of good character. His stats in the Series prove he didn't participate in throwing it.
my father grew up in Villa Park and the South Side during the Depression. he pitched in the 1946 H.S. All-Star game held at Comiskey, he knew Buck Weaver fairly well and knew Rogers Hornsby amongst many other players. he tried out for 6 MLB Teams and i have the letter inviting him to Wrigley to try out for the Cubs. he told me once during a casual conversation in the '80's that Buck Weaver always professed his innocence and it tortured him the rest of his life. my dad passed in 2008 and i'm soo glad that he got to see the White Sox win the '05 World Series. he raised 8 kids to be Bears, Bulls and White Sox Fans.
“Who is he anyhow, an actor?"
"No."
"A dentist?"
"...No, he's a gambler." Gatsby hesitated, then added cooly: "He's the man who fixed the World Series back in 1919."
"Fixed the World Series?" I repeated.
The idea staggered me. I remembered, of course, that the World Series had been fixed in 1919, but if I had thought of it at all I would have thought of it as something that merely happened, the end of an inevitable chain. It never occurred to me that one man could start to play with the faith of fifty million people--with the singlemindedness of a burglar blowing a safe.
"How did he happen to do that?" I asked after a minute.
"He just saw the opportunity."
"Why isn't he in jail?"
"They can't get him, old sport. He's a smart man.”
-F. Scott Fitzgerald _The Great Gatsby_
shit I got a close reading assignment on _The Great Gatsby_ and I've barely read it
You know he was talking about Arnold Rothstein not Joe Jackson right?
Henry Henkel Yes, of course. I thought it was obvious. But now I realize maybe it’s not so obvious to people new to the Black Sox scandal. Thanks for mentioning it!
On an unrelated note, Nick was super gay for Gatsby 😭
og orange duck saaaameee bro 😂
I am always amazed by how much older players of this era look when compared to today’s players of the same age.
True, it's also amazing how that uniform at (2:12) could have clothed a 3rd world village.
south carolina, 1933: ty cobb (a game thrower in his own right, but nasty and combative enough to threaten to tell everything he knows, and probably blowing up baseball itself) enters joe jackson's liquor store with sportswriter grantland rice. jackson does not acknowledge them. cobb goes "don't you know me, joe?" jackson goes "sure i do, but i didn't think you'd want to know me. a lot of them don't". fuckin guy hit .408 as a rookie.
If ever in Greenville SC, stop at the Shoeless Joe museum. It's across the street from the minor league ballpark.
"Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so!"
Could not agree more. Sad story, and he needs to be in the HOF. Just like Pete.
I've always felt that a player's lifetime ban should end once they die, and in Joe's case, I've always felt that he was innocent in this case and even if he did take the money, other athletes have been inducted and kept in their respective halls of fame despite their bad things (i.e. O.J Simpson and Ty Cobb
The stories about Ty Cobb being a terrible person were largely proven to have been severely exaggerated as well
Not an O.J. fan but he was found not guilty; However, his conviction in Nevada should be fuel to remove him from the HoF. Now that's something you could spend some energy on perhaps?
@@eddixon2015 I’m just curious where you’re getting your info from. Is there a source I can look at to verify your Ty Cobb info.
Yes he should be on the ballet!
Or any comparable type of performance dance, yes.
Coming from Greenville we know all about him
aaaayyyy same!
Same but I’m from Salem
Same but Tulsa
Simpsonville. Same county.
Except what he looks like apparently, thumbnail is Cobb.
SHOELESS JOE IS A HALL OF FAMER!!!
Actually, by definition he is 100% NOT a Hall of Famer.
@@stevenmiller7747 Should be 100%
@@stevenmiller7747 but by definition u r %100 a hater
I truly want to thank you for doing this video on my favorite baseball player of all time. I have been an avid and die-hard White Sox fan my entire life and came to know about the greatest hitter who still holds the fourth highest career batting average in major league baseball history. The 1919 White Sox issue is more complex than you relate to however. And there is more involve. Thank you for pointing out the facts about Joe's "involvement". He was that series highest producing player from either team at the plate. I believe if MLB is going to reconignize his stats as merits to be surpassed, including his rookie years stats which still stand to this day, then his banishment should be lifted. He was an illiterate man who took money dropped on the floor of his hotel room who tried to tell the owner what was going on and return the money, only to be denied by that owner the opportunity which was so typical of Charles Comiskey, the real reason why his own players tried to screw him out of money they earned by playing the game. As it is now, winning the world series meant money for the owners. Landis and his banishment is another issue. A man hand picked by the club owners to supervise players without a union or player representation. Hmm sound fishy even today.
I love this channel. Thank you so much!!!
When I was younger I went to the hall of fame and I could have swarm that they talked about shoeless joe Jackson
I haven’t been to the HoF in a while, but last time I was there I noticed that he had a small section in the museum, but was excluded from the actual Hall of Fame. Similar to Bonds.
Mitchel Valentino oh that’s probably what it was then
Man, more like the tragedy of this video’s view count! Only 80,00? Come on!
Matt as always dissects both the finer statistics and greater career arc of a player incredibly well and this time with one who has quite the mixed reputation that’s been buried in history. I can’t help but just feel sad for Joe in this. Truly one of the greatest ever to pick up the bat and glove, whose career (and perhaps life, too) was thrown awry mostly by factors that were completely out of his reach.
I also can’t help but return to this video every now and then. An SRS classic no-doubt!
Love this. Thank you!
If MLB reinstates Shoeless Joe, they'll have to reinstate Pete Rose as well.
Which won't happen. MLB is incapable of admitting their own wrongdoing.
Too proud to admit a mistake....this is why as a kid when I saw Baseball as the #1 sport fall to #3(would be #4 if Hockey weren't Canadian)....what's the saying....Pride goes before the fall...
Shoeless Joe Jackson belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Shoeless Joe Jackson should be reinstated, and he should be in the Hall of Fame. As you said, he was that good. When he signed that confession, there's no way he knew what he was signing. He couldn't read or write. The book Eight Men Out tells how he and a couple of other White Sox players from that 1919 team were railroaded by the attorneys to sign the confessions, supposedly to get the gamblers at the heart of the conspiracy. According to the book, Joe Jackson and the others were promised immunity if they testified, so they did.
@5:55..... It's BETH - LE - HEM not BETH - EL - HELM ..Bethlehem Steel Company... founded in Bethlehem, PA. (perhaps Biblical vibes, but definitely not Lord Of The Rings)
...........And so puts him in sight of the A's scouts. Got it! Thanks!
@u mama I guess him thinking it was BethelHELM reminded him of Helm's Deep.
Foolish Baseball helped get Larry Walker into the Hall of Fame and now you’re gonna help get Shoeless Joe in there. I’m calling it now.
Shoeless Joe needs to be in the HOF!
1) He was an all-time get player that doesn't get the recognition he deserved.
2) I don't think he cheated or at least didn't know how far the cheating was supposed to go. The law said he was innocent. Also, even if he wasn't completely clean, he didn't want to keep the money once he found out how wrong it was. Adding that with a .375 batting average with no errors when gloves might as well have not even exstisted proves he really just wanted to play baseball and win.
He should've been 1st ballot instead of a ban.
if the floodgates for steroid users opens up, then they have no excuse to omit him from Cooperstown
No, he should be banned and should remain banned indefinitely. He conspired to throw a World Series and thus damaged the integrity of the game. Throwing games is the absolute worst thing any player can do - if the outcome is predetermined and one team (or players on that team) are playing to lose, then baseball isn't baseball as we know it.
The fact that you think he's innocent is irrelevant. Kennesaw Mountain Landis, the commissioner at the time, conducted an actual investigation based on actual evidence from people with firsthand knowledge of the conspiracy, and based on that evidence found him guilty. In the hundred years since, no exculpatory evidence has been offered. Furthermore, looking at a slash line isn't a good indication of anything, and the evidence that I've heard suggests that while his average was good, his hitting came in situations where the game was won or lost already - in clutch scenarios he hit poorly - and that his fielding was noticeably worse than usual - plays he normally would make, he didn't. That they weren't scored errors is irrelevant.
It's a shame, because he was one of the all time greats. But that doesn't matter. He harmed baseball badly through his actions, and because of that, he does not belong among the game's greatest in Cooperstown. Putting him alongside Cy Young, Babe Ruth, and Jackie Robinson would be in insult to them.
@@MrEvanfriend He should be in tho
Evan TLDR. Jackson couldn’t read and went 5/12 with runners in scoring position. Not exactly someone that would throw a series.
@@jd0192 Not sure why you think his illiteracy is at all relevant to whether or not he threw the series. In the end, the people who had access to actual evidence said he did, that trumps your argument of "I don't want him to have done it so he didn't".
This is very interesting and good work. I recently read the book Eight Men Out, which is one of the first historical works written about the scandal. My only criticism of this video is that too much of the visual content in the first half or so is completely unrelated to the narration. Then again I'm sure you were limited in what you could use given the time period discussed.
Joe deserves better! He didn't play like he 'threw the game'! He was used as a pawn, taken advantage of! If cheaters who use drugs can be reinstated, so can Joe! This really irritates me that he isn't in the Hall of Fame!
Who else learned this from Field of Dreams
No offense, great video dude!
Well....Field of Dreams and Eight Men Out.
@@bossfan49 true, true
We all hear of it....and then we see it.
My Dad would've talked about it...as we scanned the Baseball Almanac! (one volume)
yet today the whole trastros team just gets away with cheating....crazy
Ok, disclaimer upfront: I am a diehard White Sox fan, so yes, I’m biased but really, Shoeless was an amazing player and deserves at least a second look for HOF induction.
I read many of the comments and I must say the majority of them agree, he deserves the HOF.
Great job on the video since there’s limited film/video on Joe....
Thanks.
Is this heaven? No it’s Iowa
Got me to subscribe. I like the videos you're making here, looking forward to more in the future!
Love the videos stark 👍
You should also talk about the tragedy of Ray Chapman since its been almost a hundred years since he got hit in the head with a baseball and died
They might do it on August 14th, for the 100th anniversary.
He was the spark for a 1920 Indians Fall Classic.
Ray Chapman was brought up in the town that I live in. I wish they'd erect a statue and build some sort of shrine to him near baseball diamonds in city park. Too few are aware of his tragic death and what a good player and good man he was.
@@theblacksheep5226 I visited what was left of League Park in 2008 and stood in the batters box where Ruth hit his 500th home run, Then I made my way to the pitchers mound to pay my respects to Ray, it was a very surreal feeling that I was essentially intruding on his grave.
Rip Ray Chapman
There have been conversations about allowing Pete Rose into the HOF. Joe Jackson needs to be IN the HOF before allowing Pete Rose in
Al Buddy left the game only to play anonymously in Kankakee. He was the greatest. He could hit, play the field, sell shoes.
The stats speak for themselves, he didn't throw it. Never should have been banned in the first place. Smarter minds should prevail now and vote him into The Hall.
there are quite a number of players deserve to be in the Hall of Fame that I get the feeling never will be because of the MLB's stubbornness. Pete Rose is first to come to mind for me. Most hits of all time. All just because he gambled on baseball games when he was a manager later on. He clearly played his heart out. Most hits of all time speaks for itself
If Joe Jackson ever gets in a Hall of Fame in the MLB owes Pete Rose an apology
Pete has more of a chance of getting in the hall than shoeless. I think he'll somehow get in later on, maybe after he passes away... And when that happens, they should also allow shoeless to get in.
Shoeless Joe arguably the greatest baseball player ever. And a southerner. He needs to be reinstated into the Baseball Hall Of Fame.
deserves to be in the HOF
Another tragedy is Buck Weaver. To my understanding, it's accepted that he was not involved in the fix. He was kicked out for not turning in his teammates.
Agreed. Let him in to Cooperstown.
I agree..100. Percent with you. He was about the only one who truly played well in that (WS). He was taken advantage of because his lack of education. He should be in the ( HOF). I could name a few players that their numbers doesn't constitutes ( HOF) but yet they were voted in.
This channel is amazing
More than 100 years later, Shoeless Joe remains the only rookie in the Majors to bat over .400. Babe Ruth said that he modeled his batting style after Shoeless Joe.
People in Philly hazing and heckling outsiders whom they don’t understand and consider “low class” I’m sure that never happens now...
Well done. I wrongly thought Joe went from Philly straight to Chicago for Bristol Lord. Thanks for the education.
I had an advanced reading level in elementary school. I was able to read 12th grade books at age 8 and one of those books was a biography about shoeless joe Jackson. I’ve known about him the majority of my life. I have to hold back tears every time I think about how much he was jipped out of being in the hall of fame. Because I’ve known who he was for so long I honestly can’t comprehend the fact that most baseball fans don’t.
Yeah. I too put my advanced reading level to good use and read “Eight Men Out” in elementary school. I still remember it. (I read “A Night to Remember” that year as well. Got a good feel for the 1910’s).
My thought then, and my thought now, is that throwing the World Series is just about the worst thing a baseball player can do. You feel bad for Jackson? What about the city of Chicago and all the fans of the White Sox? As a kid, I couldn’t help but think of how devastated I’d be if the best player on my favorite time had been caught up in something like that.
I still feel now as I did then. Jackson should have been a baseball giant. More importantly, though, he should have done the right thing. His excuses make him look even worse in my eyes.
Most people don’t remember him because he (rightfully!) doesn’t get the attention other players with his talent receive. If he’s forgotten it’s because he deserves to be.
Do you remember the story about the boy who cried out, “Say it ain’t so, Joe. Say it ain’t so”? He felt broken-hearted and betrayed. That poor little guy couldn’t hold back his tears. What a thing to do to an innocent young fan! Jackson did real harm. That’s his legacy.
@@paultheaudaciousbradford6772 but he didn’t make an error and hit the ball well during the World Series?? How is that doing the wrong thing?
@@paultheaudaciousbradford6772 not only that but the owner of the team was a known crook and these players weren’t making nearly enough money. By the way, baseball is just a game it has no effect on the world. It’s my favorite sport that I played and I think any player that was great deserves to be recognized for their greatness no matter what negative things they did regarding the game being played. If a player goes out and murders his wife and her adulterous lover (O.J. Simpson) that person should not go in the hall of fame. Yet that man is still in the hall of fame. Shoeless joe got dragged into a scandal about whether the game was played fairly. He did his best, didn’t make errors and hit well during the World Series yet the allegations still stuck? And now he can’t be in the hall of fame? Did he rape anyone? Did he murder anyone? Did he commit a legitimate crime?
@@macmirez9508 Well, I’ve had my say, you’ve had your say… We’ll leave it to others to figure out which of us has the more convincing argument.
@@paultheaudaciousbradford6772 fair enough
Jackson is a legend, and I believe him 100%.
Thanks so much for your upload. Compared to what other HOF players have done, I agree that “Shoeless Joe” Jackson should be taken off the banned list and inducted into the HOF. From the sources that I’ve read, he certainly didn’t play like someone who wanted to throw the 1919 Series. Although there are some recent “articles” about some of the Sox’s roles in the fix, somehow it leads me to ask: Were you around when gangsters were running rampant? Also baseball players weren’t paid the hefty salaries that they’re paid nowadays.
My guess is that you saw the film “Eight Men Out.” There’s a scene where I believe it was Charles Risberg approaches Joe about the fix. Joe says, “Alright” after Risberg says things like, “You don’t want me to be mad at you. You don’t want to look stupid.” Because there are different aspects of the whole story, I wish I knew for sure if that conversation took place. Anyway, thanks very much for this upload!
This needs to go viral!
Jackson was 12 for 32 in the WS with no errors. That proves he didn’t try to throw the series - he tried to win! That’s all that matters. It makes absolutely no difference whether he made a deal with the gangsters or even took money from them. If he did, he double crossed them. He didn’t honor any agreement he might have made with them, if indeed he ever did make any agreement. It’s outrageous that he was banned from professional baseball. Of course he belongs in the HOF. So does Pete Rose.
I've only heard of Joe from a statue in my town, outside of the Greenville minor league team stadium. Really interesting story.
I think what a lot of people are missing in the Shoeless Joe case is that at least one of the other players banned didn't take any money or throw any games. He was banned for KNOWING about the plot and not coming forward. Even with the statistical evidence showing Joe played a great series and made no errors, it's pretty evident he at least knew about the plot as well. I believe the banning has lasted all these years because he knew, and not because he participated. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the HoF, just saying why I think he has remained banned.
Thank you for this video. He is part of my family
A guy that was arguably the MVP of the World Series banned for life... Today we punish nobody yet this man who was innocent in a court of law and was illiterate is still banned. A complete joke that he’s not in Cooperstown. I’ve known his story since I was little kid and it’s always bothered me. MLB just can never seem to get these things right. One of these days a Commissioner with a set of ⚾️⚾️ will do the right thing and restore the great name of Shoeless Joe Jackson!
You should do a follow up on this specifically looking at the extended context of his 1919 World Series Performance. If one is too look at the situations when he got his hits vs when he made his outs... Lets just say the context says way more about his stats then the sum does. Especially when taking into further context that the player is arguably one of the best pure hitters in MLB hisory... Who pretty much could hit at will...
If Shoeless can’t be in the hall, neither should any of the Astros
Ty.
He IS in the Hall of Fame, just not with a plaque. Images of him and his story all over the Hall when we visited. He admitted in involvement in the conspiracy, he accepted money. His life did not end with banishment. Ran several successful businesses and happily married until death. People often forget, or don’t know, 1919 Cincinnati Reds won more regular season games than White Sox. Also had a deeper starting rotation in an era without real relief pitchers. White Sox only had three starters for 1919 World Series and two clearly in on the fix. Reds had five solid starters. Evidence of Reds’ strong pitching is the poor hitting of non-corrupt Sox players.
Are you ever going to upload the one members only video from a few months ago, given that you’re not doing the exclusive videos anymore?
It surprises me that now ,even after the truth about the World Series is known he still isn't in the H.O.F.
life time ban, He died, so the ban should be lifted. my opinion.
Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose both NEED to be in Cooperstown!!
As someone who grew up in South Carolina, when you look for players that were born here, the best is by far Shoeless Joe Jackson. I do believe he represents the state when you look at the best player from each and the fact that he has still been denied the hall is a shame.
Agree thanks
Jackson had the most Hits in the World Series and NO errors in the games it’s a crime he’s not in the hall
I agree Joe should be in the HOF!
What comisky did to those players is one of the reasons that the players don't trust the owners.
Comisky was a horrible owner and was a tight fisted cheapskate ...the more you read about Comisky the more likely if you were a player to do what they did...Comisky cheated Eddie Cicotte out of a bonus by not letting him pitch for almost a month and ended up with 29 win instead of 30+ wins...which would have given him the bonus..Charles Comisky was a bastard.
@@pst702 A new book suggests that the Cicotte bonus story was not true.
Nevertheless, Charles Comisky was a cheapskate
Shoeless Joe Jackson was one of the best baseball players ever
The bar where the scheme to throw the series was supposedly cooked up still stands. It's on Vine Street in Cincinnati and is known as Wielert's Cafe.
Correct.
If the Astros were allowed to keep their championship and literally no other consequences, then Shoeless Joe should be reinstated
I 100% agree
It's funny seeing these old pictures and even tho the are in the 20s, they look much, much older than it.
Ngl the last samurai theme hit hard at the end
My uncle would call me shoeless joe Jackson because I played baseball and I would go shoeless right after our games and I would just be shoeless half the time in general lol
I don't believe he should be in the Hall of Fame, but oddly enough, I do think he should be on the ballot. It should be up to the people voting to decide whether he deserves to be in full stop, or with an asterisk, or not at all. A "lifetime ban" should only last a lifetime. I feel the same about Pete Rose; he deserves the ban, but when he dies, he should be on the ballot.
I admire your fairness....some fans think they are "The Lords of Baseball " and are on this high horse of moral pride instead of being logical and fair....I agree with your comments....smartest one I read on this thread 👍
The MLB Hall of Fame is a museum, nothing more. The BBWAA (Baseball Writers' Association of America) decides these things and (in my opinion) because of that there is human error involved. So let's not get caught up in the museum and just say that Joe Jackson was one of the greatest players in the history of baseball.