Motors Of The Future Are Here! | Taipei Cycle Show 2024 Pt.2
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
- Join Steve Jones at the Taipei Cycle Bike Show to show you some hot new tech! Steve looks at all the new frames, motors, batteries and displays.
⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
00:00 - Intro
00:19 - The New Hyena Motor
02:50 - Bafang M820 Motor
03:58 - KTM Scarp SX
05:05 - Motionva
05:31 - Kynamic
05:49 - Astro
07:08 - Non E eBike
07:46 - Digiwise
09:11 - Ananda
09:26 - CloudDrive
10:17 - Merry
11:25 - Delta
12:25 - MPF Drive
12:48 - Truck Run
13:32 - Cyclee Valeo
14:06 - Mind eBike
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Did you see anything that caught your eye? 👀 Let us know! 👇
No DIY motors like CYC , Tongsheng , ToSeven.
Yes, got me thinking about your recent ‘out of Guarentee’ vid on motors. I wonder if some of these manufacturers can build a motor (or adapter) that coincidently fits it into a frame for a Bosch or whatever. Is it really true that a ‘hole/space for a motor’ and a ‘distance’ between bolt-holes in, say, a Cannondale frame can be copyrighted by the original motor manufacturer? And, I bet the frame manufacturer would prefer a user to keep it going with a cheap new motor and, later, buy another new bike from them rather than have the customer ditch them (the manufacturer of the frame) along with the underperforming motor and instead buy a whole new bike from a different manufacturer when the motor gets ‘past-it’.
I realise I’m wrong - must be - but I really can’t work out why.
Anyway, I contacted them (they’ve been overwhelmed they told me, but I still bought them a couple of coffee’s 😊. So, then the internet told me there are several companies in the U.K. offering this service. So, we should all be thinking of routinely using them (as per suspension service etc). For some reason, there’s a great deal of chin-pulling about the Shimano motors (eg EP8) which I haven’t got to the bottom of: most don’t advertise they can service them, despite being able to change the bearings out of warranty (2 yrs). Anyway, thanks for that too.
what's the name of the company making the torsion spring power assist?
square taper cranks wtf so 80s
600 Dollars for the Astro.....?
For crying out loud when will they standardise battery shapes and chargers to ensure compatibility, safety and maximise recycling? Every company inventing and re inventing new standards annually is insane?
And while they’re at it, standardize motor mounts and bolt pattern too. But no, it’s a game of Market Darwinism.
Could not agree more with both of you !!
Great point. I am looking for a spare battery for my m510 for now 2 month and can’t even get hint where to source them. A standard would be great for OEM’s to crack the system. Then I couldn’t care less when the manufacturer sells a product and has no aftermarket service. Cheers to Bafang for this crap service
Totally agree 👍, we are where mobile phones were 15 years ago!!! Mounts, batteries, chargers etc.. so much for being eco friendly!!
I don’t expect the motor or bike manufacturers to address this, but we almost never hear the press talking about it which to me is really weird. It’s almost like “yeah, let’s not go there…”
Shout out to Steve for the Bafangers out there! Been riding the M820-75 Nm (3/4- powered😉) for 8 months now..luv'n it! Not a massive hill killer, but it sure does lighten the overall rig down to the mid to upper 40's lbs for my Enduro rig!🤟 And it can keep up with full-powered riders depending on each other's skill/fitness levels.
Love my WattWagon with its Bafang Mid-drive!
Love the guy with the perpetual motion bike 😂
Call me petty but why did he have to call it Mao. In Taiwan.
It's called a fly wheel.
one of the car manufactures had a flywheel instead of a battery, I think it was Porsche
I think it was saab and that was back in the 60s
no Williams did it with porsche in the 90s@@trevorhartley5166
@@anonymousone6075
It is not a Flywheel,it is something new,he said it has a torsionspring.Does anyone know more about it?I do not find anything.Thank you.
More MGUs please, I was hoping for a real Pinion MGU alternative showing up.
Same
Same
Taipei really the center of e-bike future. Very interesting stuff! 👍
What has been your favourite thing so far?
Thanks for the show vids Steve, enjoyed both 👍
Have you ever done anything on pinion gear boxes?
they are sleeping on it
pinion consists of Porsche engineers!
they are the #1 at the moment
Wow…. Thanks Steve and the EMBM team some really great tech coming on the market! I hope we get to see you try some of the bikes out in real world conditions very soon 👍
There really is! What was your favourite piece of tech?
Very cool to see the new stuff. Good topic to go further into with the battery observations you made
thank you, hope for some ideas and products will make it into the market
You and us both!
Thanks Steve
Also tech support would be an essential part of the decision to choose any of these new motors/electronics/battery products
Or published details so anyone can support it.
Loved the idea of the frame thsat acceps diff motors and batteries.
Looking for frictionless paddling above the assistance speed (unlike my bosch gen4).
3:30 idea with smaller changeable batteries with full power motor is nice if you can transport and store them easily.
For example you take your ebike + spare batteries in your car to trails and then you can easly change them every 2h.
But that system comes with a lot of cons:
-lower capacity batterry will lose power faster because you drain it faster.
-you need to store them somehow and if you want to carry them in backpack then whats the difference? If you are already carrying that weight you might get one big battery.
-switching batteries during your ride might be a problem if your bike is dirty or its raining
-you have to design frame around some fast swap system which will make frame heavier which again makes no sens since you try to make your bike lighter
Just my thoughts on the idea.
Some very nice looking motors. Its good to see the variety and general quality of these smaller brands. This can only benefit the end users and bring more people unto the sport.
Thanks Steve for providing the NM, however we would like to know the motors max Watt output in your review to.
I would love to see a mounting norm for ebike motors.... that would change the market considerably. AND make it very nice for us
bbhsd's and other brands have been around for like 6 years now.
@@Timbodacious Has nothing to do with my wish, that all motor manufactures should have the same mount... especially Shimano Brose and Bosh Panasonic and Fazua should. They make the most OEM stuff.... So that would change the market considerably... And give us options.
@@AK-ContentCreatIon those companies don't want you having options haha
I dont have a E-MTB, but this video and this topic is just so fascinating 👍❤️
Excellent reporting! I'm disappointed that the motors don't have a standardized form factor at this time. If I have a Bosch Gen 4 motor, but later want a TQ, it ain't gonna happen. I would have to buy a whole new bike that has a frame that can accommodate a TQ, for example.
Someday, the landscape is going to be littered with ebike frames because a rider can't get newer motors that are a drop-in replacement. Not very Green!
*
I like it simple, so I can do a lot of maintenance my self. Bafang is my work Horse.
You rock!
Thank you
Solid state batteries will be the game changer but they are still a couple of years away - are there any prototype examples to been seen at the show?
Solid state is 5 years away, has always been 5 years away and will continue to be 5 years away forever.
Accompanied with its always 20 years away Fusion-power.
I would love to see more of this stuff from the far east make its way over to the UK shores we have at best access to 6-7 brands when it come to motors
How about posting the bolt hole compatibilities of all the motors? That would actually be useful.
all the bolt hole mounts are different and some motors come with an aluminum mount specifically tied to the motors shape like the bafang ultra etc.
I like the idea of storing braking energy for uphill or starting assistance.
I have a 50 nm Hyena rear hub drive Trek and the thing flys. Highly recommend
same motor on my trek domane al+
Beautiful bafang motor 😮
I really would like to see more range extenders seeing as the internal batteries are so expensive!
Nice
products
👽👍🏻✨
I have a 4 year old carbon frame YT Decoy with 7000km. Weight is just over 50lbs. Still running great. eBike weight won't change much until we have solid state batteries, and we're a good few years away from that.
The most appealing thing to me in this exhibition is the Stone motor. I tried riding it in the bike demo area, comparing it with all the other brands. The motor's performance amazed me, and it's a pity that the video didn't showcase it. I hope I can buy it in the UK too.
There is no regulation on powerlimits for spring storage systems I think. This could possibly be designed for high or low output of the stored energy. Maybe changeable springs. Very interesting system for city stop and go traffic too. I would like to drive it for testing😊
My preference is super small motors and ideally modular battery systems.
I only want about 30nm in a small motor with 300Wh battery for a super lightweight natural experience. And if I can add another 200-300Wh extension, that’d be awesome for longer days.
I seen all kinds of New Cool Gear ...i just wish they didn't cost as much as a motorcycle and a new vehicle the price really needs to drop to a reasonable price so this thing can take off and everyone across the world can afford a new quality e -bike ¡😊
within 5-8yrs most of these designs will converge to 750-1000Whr solid state batteries, 80-100nm motors with integrated gearboxes total drive/battery under 5kg and belt drive.
I have a Cube hardtail with Bosch CX gen 4 from 4 years ago with a 500wh frame battery that I can unclip(with a key)at a moments notice and pop my spare one out of my backpack in, not very heavy to carry and 1000wh with which I regularly cover 40+ miles. All of these seem to be going backward compared to the system from 4 years ago - 400wh sometimes not removable from the frame with 172 wh range extender giving under 600wh, come on, people want to go further on rides, not shorter, I'm disappointed I can't buy the new 750wh bosch batteries as they have to have a smart system, Create a reliable, robust and powerful system with easy to swap out batteries to give great range and people will buy your system, simples...
It is so good, that your are in Taipei, so I don’t have to watch you riding your ebike in the wet and muddy weather of UK
Only a few more months until summer! ☀️
7:20 so physics doesnt apply then 😂😂😂
This bit should be on April 1st perhaps?
I think it's some sort of a KERS system. Pretty cool if it actually functions. You can store some energy on the flat to get uphill easier.
Asian physics.
What he really meant was that the stored power can be used for 10 km on smooth asphalt with -5% gradient ;)
Battery dimensions and charging, motor mounting and sizing - these needs to be standardized before I ever consider getting an ebike for price of a car (so any ebike)
There's something about the Brose feel and I think it's the belts.
Other motors feels like you're pedaling a drill but the Brose feels like a treadmill.
It's really smooth climbing rocks and stairs like it has caterpillar treads.
At the other end with no grunt but blistering speed are the hub drives.
Seamless power from a roll to eye watering and shifting is optional.
The Achilles heel of mid drives is extreme loads on the chain and resulting wear of chain wheels,rear cluster, derailleur and chain.
There's actually reduced load on the chain with a hub drive. Parts last forever and you can ride home without a chain or derailleur.
They need to work on reducing weight and deal with the wiring so you can change a flat without tools and a hernia but there's a magic carpet ride with a 1000 watt cheap hub drive.
Where's the graphene batteries and capacitor fired stuff I keep hearing about?
Standardize battery and motor mounts. Don't let ebike power turn into the next bottom bracket situation.
the Bafang M820 is not full power by any means.. Bafang is pretty generous with Nm figures compared to other brands. The M510 with 95Nm fits between the bosch cx 3rd and 4th generation, despite being rated higher than any of them.
the NEXT big thing might be a way to replace the chain - just recently I saw a bike with a toothed belt linking the central E-drive to the rear hub which had internal gears - its downside was that it only had 3 ratios. The chain which is a truly great and simple way to link the drive to the ratios but it has been around for a century or two and is getting really old in the tooth :-) It needs constant cleaning, care, lubrication and replacement. There HAS to be a better way? Great thought provoking video, Steve !
Careful with the “smallest, lightest and most powerful” mantra; how about including “durable, robust, reliable” to the mix.
Without being too cynical, I’ll bet a lot of these manufacturers will be designing their “smallest, lightest and most powerful” motors to last around a month past their warranties.
My ebike has a Ananda 110nm. It's very good 👍😊
awesome wish I can go there, lot of new motors was there any tq updates ?
75Nm? In my Bafang Motor I've got 160Nm and and 1100Wh battery because I'm NOT carrying a battery of any kind in my back pack and I can ride 30 ish miles and over 3-3500 feet of Climbing and still have almost 50% left......Thanks Stevie!
if one has a light weight battery, you must question safety, there needs to be protective physical cell compartments to mitigate battery explosions, this must add weight so I'd choose safety over weight saving.
Why doesn't the Valeo Cyclee "quite make it"? I'm very keen to get an EMTB with MGU as soon as they are available in Australia, and being able to assess the upcoming options is important
It certainly was odd that one. No reference to weight, no holding it in hand, just a quick look, an aside about previous experience, cast shade, and move on.
soonly !🤫
My hypothesis is that future is assistance that gets out of sight if you want / must pedal (no resistance)
If there's an increase in the power-to-weight ratio by reducing the overall weight while maintaining strength, integrity and durability, then this is a major improvement.
Really interesting, in a few more years, you might be able to remove a bottom bracket and put a 90nm motor in its place.
Honestly i don't care about size i want more better bearing quality better seal quality and more resistant to water and Dirt
Of course weight matters. To dismiss that is ridiculous. More power in a lighter package is more efficient. Also makes the bike more transportable. Not everyone lives near a trail. I have a full power 25kg bike but my next bike will be a lighter one. I don’t want or need anymore power. Something that’s more manageable is more important to me.
300 what hour battery stuff that we just finished one that eneded up being just under 5000 watt hours .this going to be one heavy bike
Bad idea putting batteries in your backpack, used to carry my pump in a camelback until I crashed the pump broke 4 ribs & 4 vertebra lost all feeling in my lower body. Pump now fixed to the frame
Geo fencing is likely aimed for ebike and escooter rental services like Lime, Bird, Neuron etc.
what's the name of the company making the torsion spring power assist?
I think the future is motors at current mass but much more power and equivalent range. More speed at same or more range = more fun and major marketing leverage
Unfortunately unlimited power bicycle is not road legal in many countries. It would be classified as a motorcycle with all the consequences - registration, insurance, driver's license, etc.
There may be some rogue companies doing unlimited power stuff and labeling them "for private property only" (which obviously nobody follows) but it will be harder for them to find cooperation with serious companies who dont want to ruin their reputation, and I dont know how many % of the customers are willing to risk criminal charges for a bit more power.
It sucks but it's reality.
@SteveJones did you notice more tech for ebiking in urban riding compared to emtb applications? 🤔
I made my own battery pack and it is 18650 cells from tesla car and it is 14s6p 😊so a big battery
7:17 Any idea what's the name of the stand from this guy? I'm trying to find more information about that non-electric e-bike
I've got a new motor due in the post in a couple of weeks.....my 6 year old Gen 2 CX, being fully rebuilt by the eBike Motor Centre... I'm waiting until external batteries come back in fashion until I get a new bike...my 2017 KTM Macina Lycan 271 still going strong!
That's great! keep your eyes peeled as we have another video coming from the eBike Motor Centre coming soon 👀 Let us know how the motor feels when you get it back 🤘
@@embn Will do.... (My bike was on EMBN show 67 lol- 20 mins 43 secs!).... Well looked after but used exclusively in the Cairngorms so a hard life and seem to get just play on the poorly sealed NDS crank bearing, but to get to that it's a full strip down so may as well get a full rebuild, anything else is false economy!!
Waiting for more bike mfgs to agree on a "standard" battery size/shape and motor mount. They eventually need to provide an upgrade/replacement pay like every other bike component like wheel size, headtube diameter, steer tube diameter, BB diameter, thru axle, rear derailleur mount, etc. Just need a few companies to lead the way.
Don’t hold your breath
75 Newton-meters converts to 55 pound-feet of torque in freedom units. A 170mm crank converts to about 0.56 feet. So that 75 Nm rating is equivalent to a 95 pound rider (55 divided by 0.56) standing on one pedal with the cranks horizontal. It ain't that much, guys! It's power that gets you up the hill.
Battery tech will only have small incremental advancements until Solid-state batteries become available on E-MTB’s.
So never then.
I think an electric assist motor on a bike needs a belt drive and a enclosed gear box. I think the advantages of a gear box bike (such as the Priority 600) is a much better option than a chain drive and derailleurs. Did any company in the show display any belt drive systems?
DJI's ebike is on the way.
"That's a wonderful opinion, very open-minded and detailed." Could you provide me with some additional information regarding the battery? Specifically, I am interested in the cost of the battery, its composition, and its expected lifespan. Thank you. . Thumbs up and subscribed.
Nice Nice Nice Thx! ❤ More engines are a bit disturbing for the consumer. Only a test that is as objective as possible can help to compare. I would be interested in the punch, the volume but also the durability and the susceptibility to errors.
can you tell us the brand or company name of the mid-drive assistance system that uses a torsion spring and no battery ?
10:21 huan san hahahaha
85 nm min and a 750w batt perfect for those big mountain days, I carried an extra batt for 3 years.....never again
I think the problem is not the electric motors itself, but the lack of standardization of the frame mount, every motor brand has it's own special mount, so your frame decides which motor you can use...this is not a preferred situation...e-bike motor mounts should be standardized!
Is there a mounting standard for crank-mounted motors?
As far as I know all manufacturers create a new pattern for every motor, every year. So no you'll never be able to upgrade, just chuck your old frame into the landfill.
Crazy prices just be use they have a motor, also if something fails you're looking at AK it of money for repairs. I have a limited budget I built my own ebike for less than 1k 100nm motor & 1024wh 52v battery I get 30 mile range pulling 140kg load at 25mph
Yeah, competition is coming. I like Bosch SX most .
*When* will we get to standards for mid-drive systems. A standard for mounting, and a standardized connection bus would allow for upgrades as some of these nifty new systems come about, and a standard for bar top cyclocomputers, etc to integrate into. CANBUS, anyone?
There’s no profit motivation for that.
Biggest issue for me, other then the cost, is no motor mounting standards and lock of service options and I'm in Chicago suburbs which is not a small city 😂
Just give me an e-bike motor that uncouples completely once the 25kmh speed restriction is exceeded. That’s all I want.
Who makes a digital rear view mirror where the camera is under the seat? For street riding.
Have a look at motorcycle dash cameras. Most all run on 5v. So usb power pack , I use a 8 x 18650 usb pack in a cross bar phone bag. Have fitted several to push bikes. Front and rear recording , set display to rear camera, giving digital rear view mirror.
I mount rear camera under the back of carrier but can be mounted under seat or practically any place
Works great
Who is the manufacturer of the spring energy storage system? Is it available somewhere?
The $600 astro bike at 6:20. Where is it for sale? Thanks.
man a just want a 1kg 700wh battery, and a relativwly small/light motor with gearbox, thats all we all need to get a biiiig step up
impossible. 290wh is max.
How do I learn more about the "non e bike" :\
Hello can you give a little bit more information on the non e ebike 7.12
It is great see such good planning in E Bikes, yet pointless in the UK with Backward UK GOV Criminalizing every thing on WHEELS.
Think Delta have cracked it! That could be reduced in size the housing unit abit yet keep the 90/100nm all tucked away hidden by chain ring that's something I think will happen one big crank direct driven in the middle of the gear's.
Also alot of bikes there companies still building the bike then adding a bracket to the bottom to hold the motor it's like going back a decade! The KTM was the only one shown that had the frame hiding the motor rest are like bike's build around the motors
I believe, even so many year after the advent of ebike, all these new motors are still just kind of evolutionary, combined with also evoliutionary but old-school drive-trains not exciting at all, more worse still not gravitating to a common industry standard. I might reconsider buying into an e-bike when the motor+gearbox (like Pinion) solutions will dominate and prices might become a bit more affordable due to production scaling.
Really would like to know more about the Non-E Bike. I don't thing you even introduced the company name...... (Why?). Lets here more on that!!!! PLEASE and Thank you.
There’s a huge potential market out here, waiting for compatible 3d-party replacement motors and batteries. After investing good money in our e-bikes, we are left with poor stock and worse support for our Shimano ep8s, and the like.
you mentioned the Sachs rs motor in a previous video . i have this motor on a Nox xc . i'm freaking out lately as the motor is rarely used on other brands and has not had any changes done to it since it originally came out . for me it's perfection so that's not the problem. my concern is that they will go out of business and i won't be able to fix or replace the motor if necessary .
I really think these Motor companies are missing the mark by not making a motor that will mount in the triangle of the frame , above the bottom bracket . My first ebike motor was a Cyclone that i was able to rig some mounting brackets and install it in triangle above the BB . Perfect spot if you ask me
And how would that connect to the chainring axle?
Bom dia, porque a Shimano não possuem extender de bateria de E-Bike?????
Shout out Wan Mi Off.
Steve I’m waiting till all the battery’s are the same and universal
You might be waiting a while sadly ⏳
What is the name of the company making the non e bike?
I want to see a 150NM motor that weighs 4kg or 5kg. Not that bothered about weight.
Buy a motor cycle. Problem solved.
Worlds apart.. @@tonyrobinson1623
You have bafang bbshd 1000w
It has 160Nm
And if you have a new controller you can have battery pack on 84 volt and 50 amps
❤😊 and if you put on 32 T chain wheel you have amazing power