Steiger was a group of farmers that created a class of machine that didn't exist. They did it with rudimentary manufacturing capabilities. We're talking oxy-acetylene pattern followers, press brakes, jigs, and welders. They created a demand the rest of the industry had to follow. That is pretty cool.
It did exist. Wagner was around in 55. The real story was the Steiger family wanting a Wagner that was around 20 grand, but coming up with the idea to build their own for literally half the price
@@nellsonstout7001 a friend of mine grew up out west and knew the Wagner family. There efforts preceded the Steiger by a couple of years as I understand. Btw....anyway I can get in contact with you by email. Still have a few questions about Steiger and I think you know somebody with the answers. Thanks.
The moral of the story is, you have two articulated tractors. Neither one has a major advantage over the other. And if something happens to one, you have another as backup. 😊👍🏻
Stieger used a lot of "off the shelf" components, engine, trans, axles and hydraulic pumps. MF had thier own manufacturing capacity and could design the tractor around what they had in house. The 10 speed wasn't a 2 stick in the trucks because of the air supply allowed for pneumatic shifts.
I would like to have that Bearcat. The way its set up is totally logical. Thank you. Both are beasts and with care will work another 50 years. Be safe.
A really fascinating video thanks! As a massey ferguson nut I will have to go with the 1805 even with the short comings! A terminal case of if its not red leave it in the shed syndrome!
Not even close lololol. Clark axles, Cat engine, Fuller transmission. It’s not a competition really, but the Steiger has it beat and beat hard when it comes to parts availability
Enjoy watching your vids. Imma MF v-8 fan. I have a ‘76 1155 with 3800 original hours, turbo’d, and dyno’d over 200hp, appropriately named her Miss Perkins. The ole school MF v-8’s are hands down the best looking tractors of the era.
Great comparison JT, another interesting video 📹 🇦🇺...one thing you could do is to mount a fire extinguisher🧯 to both tractors 🚜 ...a little insurance policy 😊
Thanks for the great comparison video! I'm looking at an old Super Wildcat (almost the same as a Bearcat) and I used to own a Massey 1800 (almost the same as an 1805) so this is very relevant for me right now; I haven't got over to see the Steiger as it's about 6 hours away. Regarding the Massey hydraulics, the best thing I ever did with it was get the sheaves (pulleys) re-grooved at a machine shop. I don't remember the original belt size but there is plenty of steel to work with and I think I ended up with standard B groove belts, hydraulics were great ever afterwards. I agree about the Massey clutch; easiest clutch replacement I ever did.
Great! I think a b belt would be the perfect setup for the Massey. I’ve been lucky with my belts, they just keep working, but I know my alignment is laser straight and that helps a lot too! Good luck with the wildcat! Keep me posted!
Both tractors are good solid machines. The 3208 can be upped to 240HP pretty easily, and for the gung ho guys, can up it to 300HP with the 1W marine configuration. So if you are ever looking for an engine for one, Florida and the gulf states will turn up some stout used marine units that'll bolt in. Although the 240 and 300 are both turbo'd, so new exhaust needed. But I'll bet what will kill these is transfer case or drive lines ... Me, I'd take the Massey any day as an operator 'casue of the windows and quiet 😊
Awesome Comparison video! I love the styling of both, prefer the more roomy cab in the MF, But the dash layout is not my style, The Bearcat did a much better job at that. Btw Fun fact! Hydra-Mac Skid Steers were a Divison of Steiger tractors. Created by another brother, and by far ABSOULTE TANKS. Complete Overbuilt just like the Early Tractors. I just finishing doing a Complete Service on a friends machine, Yeah they are SMALL!! for todays standards & Defintaly not as Efficent. But!Just like the Mean green WAY Over built. GOOD Component brands, Cessa Pumps, etc STRONG Engs! though now Very hard on parts, such like these tractors. If i Put a Throw away Bobcat next too it and it'll shit itself.!!! It is No wonder the HMI Skid loaders are considered the "Holy grail" and Belong in Musuems. But BOY are they Not afraid to work, Only down side is that after 1972 they are all GEAR DRIVE. No clutches, belts, chains, no bullshit!! So when they break down you can't do shit. Can't pull it, can't move it. STUCK AS IS WHERE IS. But overall, very Sturdy, Reliable, and a Great machine. Collectors items now.
I'm partial to the 1805 only because I have one but I have spent a metric ton of hours in a stigar also . And on my God you finally bought a tractor with a loader
You need to add a video on changing out the rear end fluid and the 4 planetary Axel fluids on the bearcat and perhaps some pyrometers install on all your big tractors so to keep a eye on your piston crowns and and heads internal temps.We had a 2470 case and I had to keep the head temp down under 950 degreesUseally keeping them running around 675 to750 degrees by dropping the machine into a lower gear range while under loads,,, .to much load will melt them down!!! ,lowering the temps esp when plowing or pulling hard on different soil conditions and l ranges .I didn't want to melt the tops of my piston domes .and it can easily happen with those big block machines before you realize it's done ,and then it's too dam late
Should be a Fuller TA-4510 in the green bastard. I think those are Clark outboard planetaries on the GB unless it’s a later Raba swap in. Massey does have INboard planetaries from what I’ve heard. You could Get the same Massey axles in the series 1 and 2 small frame Steigers but it’s actually pretty rare, and sold as a row crop.
Really both machines would do the work for sure. I also think these tractors represent the true change in tractor development. Because they were really probably the first ones to use off the shelf components. Steigers idea was to use readily available parts. I know later years they used a ton of power director transmissions from Allis. My only complaint with the Massey would be the later versions with their engine choices.
Yeah that makes perfect sense for sure i am one of lucky ones to have the PTA 310s with the Allison HT 754 so at least we can get those rebuilt @@nellsonstout7001
The remotes on either tractor are a whole lot easier to get at without all that 3 point hardware that you will probably never use. Farmers where I live do want the PTO however bc they use the 4wd tractors to pull grain carts that have unload augers. I like the hydraulic reservoir on the Steiger better although the reservoir on mine is in front of the engine right under the pump. The 1805 reservoir under the hood is a problem bc anytime I need to pull the hood I have to drain the 12 gallons of oil out of the reservoir. Windows that actually open are nice especially when the air conditioning has lost it's charge. The 1805 definitely has the cab space so you can bring a nice sized cooler and my 1805 has a mechanical fuel gauge inside the cab under the rear window along with a second gauge glass that I added on the side of the tank inside the door. So I can read the fuel from either gauge inside the cab. My Steiger has Dana axles which look somewhat like yours although I don't see the oil plugs, oil level info which mine has on the outside cover. I need a cab kit in my 1805 to slow down that noise some.
Those are very good points. I’ve seen a couple 1805’s with the hydraulic tank mounted on the side of the cab. Looks goofy as ever but would solve a couple of problems.
@@jtsbarnngrill6873I have more than a couple times thought about relocating that hydraulic reservoir. Next time I pull the hood I will probably do it.
I love your videos. Look forward to each post so my son and I can watch. I have a Tractor question but it doesn’t pertain to this video. Do you have another way to ask or do you prefer the comment section
The question JT is the Steiger steering, brakes, and other important operations, powered by, completely or partially, by the hydraulics? Obviously, the steering is, by, what about clutch and brakes. Reason being, if you hydraulics for the auxillary go out on the Steiger, you're dead in the water. If the hydraulics for t he Aux go out on the Ferguson, you theoretically can make it home. Cut the belts, and you shouldn't lose much fluid. Reason for saying this, was years back, we had a Internaional 1086. Hydraulics sprung a leak. Dad was mowing the back "40" on hillly land. Baler dropped and wouldn't lift, Dad headed home. Half way back, LONG downhill. No steering, no brakes, no lift, lot of trees, and a bush laneway to aim for. Dad rode it till it hit. Took out a 28 inch maple tree. Snapped the front end right off the tractor. (Dad wad bruisded pretty bad, but still walked the half mile back to the house. Dad w as a tough old guy.) If the nose had hit instead of the front end, things would have been much more serious. THat's why, I only look at equipment where the steering and brakes are s eperate form the rest of things. It's getting harder to find. Good comparison though. Windows do count though. Especially for us who can't fix AC.
The brakes and steering are separate on this one. I’m not sure if the steering is supposed to be different originally on it, as someone along the way added a second belt driven pump that only controls the steering. Might be right, but sure doesn’t look factory. And the brakes have a master cylinder just like a pickup would have. So this would be good to drive if the aux pump went
I’d have to think they were fairly close in price, from tractordata all I can get is a 1977 1805 was $38500, and a a bearcat 2 in 1976 was 37000. But that’s all I can find out
Think I'd rather have the Stiger just because its got a truck engine and transmission that can still be sourced realtivly easy. Also the frame componants and 3 point look to be much more beefy...that and the cool factor of those old Stigers cant be beaten 😅
Looks like you wentt and bought a green loader. At least you'rre not gonna ruin the 165. Should be able to find some used agleader around these days, . put autosteer on both to pull your little grain drill around. 😃 Both those machines are still cheap horse power and can pull a chisel plow or fairly big reel disc setup. I think you just wanted air conditioning.
Im not downin any machine just a friendly choice , In spite of the stiger being loud in operation and not having pto options I'd go with stiger. Why do u need pto on that big of a machine ? Yea might take Lil longer to work on other then major Repairs. It does what it supposed to do pull !
On a 210 horsepower tractor? Grain carts, pull type sprayers, forage harvesters (forage harvesters being the number one reason hands down,) pull type combines.
no computers, no def, and no one playing you cant fix it yourself bs. im not a farmer but i think thats 3 huge benefits over the modern stuff, and as someone already commented you can add ac/gps/cameras if you really want them
What if the internet exaggerated your alleged talking points... I mean what do I know. I have yet to run across something I was unable fix on my own, in my own shop. Never been cock blocked by IH or Deere. I have smaller machines that put more than 200hp to the ground while burning less fuel with less compaction and far far better visibility and better interior comfort than you have at home. But hey it's 2023. The ignorant have the entitlement... until they don't.
talking about cheap HP here....seen tractors like these for sale for $15k or less. On smaller farms overhead costs are a big thing. No, it isn't like sitting in your living room...but then, it doesn't cost as much as your house either.
JD = over priced Gucci Farmer BS. Those machines (Steiger & Massey) are old school cool and probably cost a bunch less to maintain and operate. You could always easily add a cab AC and GPS and Video camera system. Otherwise all that other modern stuff (on a JD for example) is just expensive crap to repair or maintain.
Have both of these tractors and they both have factory air conditioning but they would have been R12 so they need to be upgraded. No problem doing that.
Please don’t use apples to apples. There is nooooooo comparison the BearCat 1 was over engineered and built to outlive the owner and his siblings. The MF was mass produced built by corporate engineers and not farmers.
Steiger was a group of farmers that created a class of machine that didn't exist. They did it with rudimentary manufacturing capabilities. We're talking oxy-acetylene pattern followers, press brakes, jigs, and welders. They created a demand the rest of the industry had to follow. That is pretty cool.
It did exist. Wagner was around in 55. The real story was the Steiger family wanting a Wagner that was around 20 grand, but coming up with the idea to build their own for literally half the price
@@nellsonstout7001 a friend of mine grew up out west and knew the Wagner family. There efforts preceded the Steiger by a couple of years as I understand. Btw....anyway I can get in contact with you by email. Still have a few questions about Steiger and I think you know somebody with the answers. Thanks.
The bad thing about the steiger hydraulic tank behind the cab is it would cook you inside.
The moral of the story is, you have two articulated tractors. Neither one has a major advantage over the other. And if something happens to one, you have another as backup. 😊👍🏻
Spot on!
Both are awesome monsters from the good ole days.👌
Stieger used a lot of "off the shelf" components, engine, trans, axles and hydraulic pumps. MF had thier own manufacturing capacity and could design the tractor around what they had in house. The 10 speed wasn't a 2 stick in the trucks because of the air supply allowed for pneumatic shifts.
I would like to have that Bearcat. The way its set up is totally logical. Thank you. Both are beasts and with care will work another 50 years. Be safe.
Good video I enjoyed the comparison. Both are great Tractors. But i like the looks of the Massey best.
Looks like Christmas there to me. Lol. Red and green go great together. We are a multicolour farm ourselves. No discrimination around here . Lmao 👍🤣
A really fascinating video thanks!
As a massey ferguson nut I will have to go with the 1805 even with the short comings!
A terminal case of if its not red leave it in the shed syndrome!
awesome "friendly" comparison!
Another great video JT!
Sound guard cabs was great in 73. But they ran that cab about 15 years too long. By 93-94 they had the smallest cab and smallest door in the industry.
Great video. I love them both
Seem to remember one of the very few 1805’s that came to the U.K. needed a new brake. The parts were the same as a Chevy truck.
Nice machinery .
Great video JT👌👌👌👌
Thanks for the walk around comparison
They are a great pair of tractors. MF seems to have a more intrincate design, Steiger seems to be more simple and beefy.
Thanks for posting 💕🇨🇦
Go with the MF 1805, probably more parts available.
Not even close lololol. Clark axles, Cat engine, Fuller transmission. It’s not a competition really, but the Steiger has it beat and beat hard when it comes to parts availability
Killer video!!
The Stieger seems way more utilitarian. Just a get in the trenches a give er. Massey is more user friendly to stay in it longer.
Enjoy watching your vids. Imma MF v-8 fan. I have a ‘76 1155 with 3800 original hours, turbo’d, and dyno’d over 200hp, appropriately named her Miss Perkins. The ole school MF v-8’s are hands down the best looking tractors of the era.
Agreed! They are classy tractors!
Wish they put the Perkins 640 in the 1805
@@richardparrott1195 this exactly, 1805 was a good tractor for its day but a Perkins would have been sweet!
I prefer the Massey,
Great comparison JT, another interesting video 📹 🇦🇺...one thing you could do is to mount a fire extinguisher🧯 to both tractors 🚜 ...a little insurance policy 😊
That is a great idea! I actually have one that I toss in the cab whenever I go but it would be much more handy to have one mounted in
I have a series 3 steiger and its loud in the cab. I can only imagine how much more loud yours is.
I vote for the Steiger. 😊
I like the green one it looks heavier
Thanks for the great comparison video! I'm looking at an old Super Wildcat (almost the same as a Bearcat) and I used to own a Massey 1800 (almost the same as an 1805) so this is very relevant for me right now; I haven't got over to see the Steiger as it's about 6 hours away. Regarding the Massey hydraulics, the best thing I ever did with it was get the sheaves (pulleys) re-grooved at a machine shop. I don't remember the original belt size but there is plenty of steel to work with and I think I ended up with standard B groove belts, hydraulics were great ever afterwards. I agree about the Massey clutch; easiest clutch replacement I ever did.
Great! I think a b belt would be the perfect setup for the Massey. I’ve been lucky with my belts, they just keep working, but I know my alignment is laser straight and that helps a lot too! Good luck with the wildcat! Keep me posted!
Both tractors are good solid machines. The 3208 can be upped to 240HP pretty easily, and for the gung ho guys, can up it to 300HP with the 1W marine configuration. So if you are ever looking for an engine for one, Florida and the gulf states will turn up some stout used marine units that'll bolt in. Although the 240 and 300 are both turbo'd, so new exhaust needed. But I'll bet what will kill these is transfer case or drive lines ...
Me, I'd take the Massey any day as an operator 'casue of the windows and quiet 😊
I’ve wondered about a turbo 3208 for one of those at some point. And yes, the Massey is much more pleasant to operate 😉
My uncle had a 1805. He had a fire on the engine and it burnt the tire that had fluid in them and that's what put out the fire
Steiger for the win
Awesome Comparison video! I love the styling of both, prefer the more roomy cab in the MF, But the dash layout is not my style, The Bearcat did a much better job at that. Btw Fun fact! Hydra-Mac Skid Steers were a Divison of Steiger tractors. Created by another brother, and by far ABSOULTE TANKS. Complete Overbuilt just like the Early Tractors. I just finishing doing a Complete Service on a friends machine, Yeah they are SMALL!! for todays standards & Defintaly not as Efficent. But!Just like the Mean green WAY Over built. GOOD Component brands, Cessa Pumps, etc STRONG Engs! though now Very hard on parts, such like these tractors. If i Put a Throw away Bobcat next too it and it'll shit itself.!!! It is No wonder the HMI Skid loaders are considered the "Holy grail" and Belong in Musuems. But BOY are they Not afraid to work, Only down side is that after 1972 they are all GEAR DRIVE. No clutches, belts, chains, no bullshit!! So when they break down you can't do shit. Can't pull it, can't move it. STUCK AS IS WHERE IS. But overall, very Sturdy, Reliable, and a Great machine. Collectors items now.
The 3408 is one tough a$$ed engine, hands down. A little interesting to wrench on.
Wish it was a 3408 ,,
But 3208
I'm partial to the 1805 only because I have one but I have spent a metric ton of hours in a stigar also . And on my God you finally bought a tractor with a loader
I’ve been needing one 😆
You need to add a video on changing out the rear end fluid and the 4 planetary Axel fluids on the bearcat and perhaps some pyrometers install on all your big tractors so to keep a eye on your piston crowns and and heads internal temps.We had a 2470 case and I had to keep the head temp down under 950 degreesUseally keeping them running around 675 to750 degrees by dropping the machine into a lower gear range while under loads,,, .to much load will melt them down!!! ,lowering the temps esp when plowing or pulling hard on different soil conditions and l ranges .I didn't want to melt the tops of my piston domes .and it can easily happen with those big block machines before you realize it's done ,and then it's too dam late
Ah the sound a JD owner hears when he buys runs or buys 18:03 parts or service... "Insert Cash or select transaction type."
No DEF, no DPF, no regen, no derate mode, and no massive payment. 👍
Nailed it!
Massey,,!! Anytime!!!
I like how you think! 🤣
Should be a Fuller TA-4510 in the green bastard. I think those are Clark outboard planetaries on the GB unless it’s a later Raba swap in. Massey does have INboard planetaries from what I’ve heard. You could Get the same Massey axles in the series 1 and 2 small frame Steigers but it’s actually pretty rare, and sold as a row crop.
Thank you! I thought you may be able to chime in on some of the things I wasn’t sure of.
@@jtsbarnngrill6873 Mine says DANA on it.
@@northdakotaham1752 most of the bearcats did have Danas. Almost all the planetary hubs and bolt patterns were unique and easy to identify
Really both machines would do the work for sure. I also think these tractors represent the true change in tractor development. Because they were really probably the first ones to use off the shelf components. Steigers idea was to use readily available parts. I know later years they used a ton of power director transmissions from Allis. My only complaint with the Massey would be the later versions with their engine choices.
I agree 100%
And now those CR and KRs are starting to fail and people can’t find transmission parts unfortunately
Yeah that makes perfect sense for sure i am one of lucky ones to have the PTA 310s with the Allison HT 754 so at least we can get those rebuilt @@nellsonstout7001
The remotes on either tractor are a whole lot easier to get at without all that 3 point hardware that you will probably never use. Farmers where I live do want the PTO however bc they use the 4wd tractors to pull grain carts that have unload augers. I like the hydraulic reservoir on the Steiger better although the reservoir on mine is in front of the engine right under the pump. The 1805 reservoir under the hood is a problem bc anytime I need to pull the hood I have to drain the 12 gallons of oil out of the reservoir. Windows that actually open are nice especially when the air conditioning has lost it's charge. The 1805 definitely has the cab space so you can bring a nice sized cooler and my 1805 has a mechanical fuel gauge inside the cab under the rear window along with a second gauge glass that I added on the side of the tank inside the door. So I can read the fuel from either gauge inside the cab. My Steiger has Dana axles which look somewhat like yours although I don't see the oil plugs, oil level info which mine has on the outside cover. I need a cab kit in my 1805 to slow down that noise some.
Those are very good points. I’ve seen a couple 1805’s with the hydraulic tank mounted on the side of the cab. Looks goofy as ever but would solve a couple of problems.
@@jtsbarnngrill6873I have more than a couple times thought about relocating that hydraulic reservoir. Next time I pull the hood I will probably do it.
dam ,final comparrison should have been a tug of war , rantoul in 2 weeks hope to see ya there
Right on! I should have, but I figured they’d both bury themselves lol
In there day , they were a ok ! I love like green B
It’s becoming a favorite of mine!
i think we need to have a come to jesus meeting about that green thing in the shed lol
😆
I love your videos. Look forward to each post so my son and I can watch. I have a Tractor question but it doesn’t pertain to this video. Do you have another way to ask or do you prefer the comment section
You could send me a email. Jtsbarnngrill@gmail
Was that one front tire on the green bastered a different size
It has 23.1-30 on the inside dual and 18.4-34 on the outsides
The question JT is the Steiger steering, brakes, and other important operations, powered by, completely or partially, by the hydraulics?
Obviously, the steering is, by, what about clutch and brakes. Reason being, if you hydraulics for the auxillary go out on the Steiger, you're dead in the water. If the hydraulics for t he Aux go out on the Ferguson, you theoretically can make it home. Cut the belts, and you shouldn't lose much fluid. Reason for saying this, was years back, we had a Internaional 1086. Hydraulics sprung a leak. Dad was mowing the back "40" on hillly land. Baler dropped and wouldn't lift, Dad headed home. Half way back, LONG downhill. No steering, no brakes, no lift, lot of trees, and a bush laneway to aim for. Dad rode it till it hit. Took out a 28 inch maple tree. Snapped the front end right off the tractor. (Dad wad bruisded pretty bad, but still walked the half mile back to the house. Dad w as a tough old guy.) If the nose had hit instead of the front end, things would have been much more serious. THat's why, I only look at equipment where the steering and brakes are s eperate form the rest of things. It's getting harder to find. Good comparison though. Windows do count though. Especially for us who can't fix AC.
The brakes and steering are separate on this one. I’m not sure if the steering is supposed to be different originally on it, as someone along the way added a second belt driven pump that only controls the steering. Might be right, but sure doesn’t look factory. And the brakes have a master cylinder just like a pickup would have. So this would be good to drive if the aux pump went
JT that stagger does that have different size tires on the front and what they are on each side one side looks smaller
Narrower duals. It’s pretty common on 4wf tractors that didn’t come with duals from the factory
my 1805, unlike the one JT has, has wider tires inside, narrow tires on the outside.
Any idea on the price difference back then?
I’d have to think they were fairly close in price, from tractordata all I can get is a 1977 1805 was $38500, and a a bearcat 2 in 1976 was 37000. But that’s all I can find out
Think I'd rather have the Stiger just because its got a truck engine and transmission that can still be sourced realtivly easy. Also the frame componants and 3 point look to be much more beefy...that and the cool factor of those old Stigers cant be beaten 😅
She’s a cool old tractor 😉
I wish i had both of these tractors but it would be hard to park them in the city with all the park-o-meters.
Looks like you wentt and bought a green loader. At least you'rre not gonna ruin the 165.
Should be able to find some used agleader around these days, . put autosteer on both to pull your little grain drill around. 😃
Both those machines are still cheap horse power and can pull a chisel plow or fairly big reel disc setup. I think you just wanted air conditioning.
Exactly! Got that one cheep!!
Im not downin any machine just a friendly choice , In spite of the stiger being loud in operation and not having pto options I'd go with stiger. Why do u need pto on that big of a machine ? Yea might take Lil longer to work on other then major
Repairs. It does what it supposed to do pull !
Nothing I have would need a pto on a tractor of that size lol. That Steiger is a pretty hard to beat old tractor. Practical and useful
On a 210 horsepower tractor? Grain carts, pull type sprayers, forage harvesters (forage harvesters being the number one reason hands down,) pull type combines.
Did the 1130 dissapear?
You mean the 1100? Yes, I sold it to my cousin this past spring
Do they still make steiger tractors
Well, yes and no. Case IH, is now Steiger Case IH
Now find you a Case 2470 up to a 2870 and compare.
Theres a reason you see more steigers of that era than massey’s that is all
no computers, no def, and no one playing you cant fix it yourself bs. im not a farmer but i think thats 3 huge benefits over the modern stuff, and as someone already commented you can add ac/gps/cameras if you really want them
Right on! Those old birds treat me good, and I don’t need a phd to fix them!
What if the internet exaggerated your alleged talking points... I mean what do I know. I have yet to run across something I was unable fix on my own, in my own shop. Never been cock blocked by IH or Deere. I have smaller machines that put more than 200hp to the ground while burning less fuel with less compaction and far far better visibility and better interior comfort than you have at home. But hey it's 2023. The ignorant have the entitlement... until they don't.
I’ve seen Steigers that age with autosteer in fact
talking about cheap HP here....seen tractors like these for sale for $15k or less. On smaller farms overhead costs are a big thing. No, it isn't like sitting in your living room...but then, it doesn't cost as much as your house either.
JD = over priced Gucci Farmer BS. Those machines (Steiger & Massey) are old school cool and probably cost a bunch less to maintain and operate. You could always easily add a cab AC and GPS and Video camera system. Otherwise all that other modern stuff (on a JD for example) is just expensive crap to repair or maintain.
Exactly!
Have both of these tractors and they both have factory air conditioning but they would have been R12 so they need to be upgraded. No problem doing that.
Please don’t use apples to apples. There is nooooooo comparison the BearCat 1 was over engineered and built to outlive the owner and his siblings. The MF was mass produced built by corporate engineers and not farmers.
I think I read something that those bearcats used Clark loaders rear ends . But not 100% more like 95%