Turntable tweaking confessions Thorens TD 150 and more
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2021
- Here I discuss the Tweaks I have done and what I have done to to improve sound on the Thorens TD 150
And some normal turntable tips.
THorens TD 150
SME 3009 ARM
ADC magnesium headshell
Ortophon blue cartridge. - Věda a technologie
I have a TD 150 and 160 I got about 15 years ago. The only bits of kit Ive never felt the need to swap out. Love them
Great video, Kelvin, thanks. I've mentioned before that my first project in hi-fi was to recapture my youth by buying a Sansui SR222 MkII. In the end I constructed a brand new plinth and base from MDF, a material that didn't exist in 1980. The original plinth was chipboard with a hardboard base. For tweaks, I lined it with ash hardwood bracing and speaker sound damping, rewired the arm with silver litz to the back of high quality phono sockets, so I could use Mogami interconnects. On the mains side, I replaced the step down components with modern high quality parts, including a 12watt Mills resistor and wired in a rhodium plated IEC mains socket to take a fully shielded mains cable. It stands on machined black anodised feet with sorbothane pads, for better isolation. It looks original in gloss black but it sounds amazing! Keeping it vintage, I use a Linn K5 cartridge with a VMN95e stylus. One day I might switch to the Microlinear stylus or even perhaps the Goldring 1042 cartridge, as I really think it deserves them.
Great tips in there Kelvin but I nearly fell off my chair when you mentioned the chains! I had a Thorens TD165 back in the day and although I've tweaked up a Rega P2 which sounds very good I'm tempted to get another Thorens just to see how they compare. Keep 'em coming - really enjoying your videos.
Nice video and I share your enthusiasm! I have a 150 and can confirm, that with careful set up (especially getting good even bounce from the suspension) that it's a real giant killer. I've had Regas, Linn LP12, Townshend Rock and none have the magic of the 150 when you get it 'right'. Just something incredibly musical about it. I have a Mission 774 arm on mine.
Like the idea of bolting the arm board on!
Thanks for yet another great Video
Always look forward to your films
Just bought a TD150….thanks for the tips🙏🏻
Had an LP12 Sondek for years and enjoyed my time with it.
Eventually I got tired of continuous 'tweaking' and adjusting the suspension springs, a habit that became an obsession!
More time tweaking than listening to actual music.
So, I decided to sell it and get a 'modern' t/table from ClearAudio, not suspended. I find myself now, listening again to my vinyl without the "tweaking bug'' at the back of my head.
Set it up once, make sure everything is as it should be and forget about it. Thanks for the thought provoking video.
Thanks for your story cheers K
Nice tips Kelvin. Thorens TD 125 MkII and SME 3009 S2 Imp driver here. My top hack (doesn't improve sound but helps with sanity ); remove bottom hardboard cover on Thorens - makes retrieval of the bias weight much easier WHEN it falls in ;)
Top tip thank you
Great video. Loved my old Sondek/ittok back in the day,
Really a great video. A Thorens deck w/ an SME 3009 arm is truly vinyl nirvana. The TD 150s were fantastic tables. Love your accent and wit !!
Something so musical about the 150, compared to even the 160 or 125 or 124
I bought a Thorens TD160 back in 1974. Still using it and loving it. Only thing I have had to do was replace the belt. 48 years old and still running like a clock. Love it!
Yeah great decks put a bit of oil in the bearing yes
Awesome Sandy you make me feel good I have made a good choice , Thorens make such wonderful toys lol
After my initial response I did do more to the turntable. I cleaned the TT shaft and put enough oil to have the shaft 'SWIMMING" in light oil. I also oil the motor shaft, very carefully (look it p on CZcams). I also changed to a cork TT bed instead of original hard rubber. I also used speaker isolation foam under the TT and removed te large TT plastic cover and now use a dust cloth to cover the TT. I am big on isolating your speakers and everything else in your system including the TT. Look into it. It made a huge and I do mean huge difference for me. Particularly in the low end.
Could you, please, show the link for motor lubrication?
Thanks for the tips, Kelvin. With such a gorgeous TT you should consider upgrading those feet, honestly ;--) I have a 166 Spezial and I upgraded the original dodgy feet myself with some stuff I got in a DIY shop and they perform and look very well (it was an easy and simple job that I strongly recommend).
Hi like your channel as you seem like an honest enthusiast (unlike many of the others who are more like salesmen). My daughter who is at uni in London always loved lp’s even as a pre teen she would put the covers on her bedroom wall for decoration so when she aced her first year uni exams I bought her her own system which included a Thorens 150 Mk2 which had just been pro serviced. She was wrapped and the hit of her circle who were all Spotify only. The amp was a Leak 30 and the speakers Restored Keff Celeste’s. She had to replace the Leak after about two yrs but the rest are still going strong. I heard it playing a Beatles album and it sounded so good I was jealous haha. Those Keff Celeste’s (1969-70) with the oblong bass drivers are exceptional. I know guy who builds valve only amplifiers who uses them as test speakers now. Oh yeah the Thorens still had the original cartridge and the cantilever twisted when she moved flats so she upgraded it with a Goldring and even that was a huge improvement. Here’s the page from vinyl engine that helped me decide on the 150: www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=Thorens&model=TD150
There’s also a great page on upgrading but I can’t locate it now
Be well.
Thanks Eddie love hearing the stories K
Interesting setup, I am curious about the overhang adjustment possibility with the vertical positioning of the SME base.
In 1985 my roommate got a TD 166 and my journey of madness began, then cds came and the table got put away will little play on it and brand new. A few years ago he gave it to me and I treasure that damn thing:) Ortifon Blue
The beauty of the earlier Thorens turntables was you can fit your own arm. In the late 70's I connected a JH Formula 4 unipivot t tonearm ( "made in Australia") The cartridge i used at that time was an ADC 10E tracking at 0.5 grams. I also connected a another base to the base of the turntable which ended up sitting on 3 conical feet . The sound at that time was truly remarkable.
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@Xavier Axl Instablaster :)
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Congrats from Belgium, on a very inspiring video! As I'm restoring a 50 years old TD150 (still working a treat) for a young friend of mine, I've been experimenting with mats. As you said, the old rubber mat is easily outperformed. I tried a Rega felt mat, which incidentally sounded better than the old thin felt mat I have on my 1990 Axis. I am amazed with the result, so I was wondering which commercially available mat would even do better than the Rega. I hear good things about the Herbie's Excellent turntable mat, which can even be customized to fit the old Thorens 40 mm hole.
Hi, I've changed mats around before, rubber, cork, plastic, using all sorts of turntables,, and witnessed differences for sure!! But is one sound actually better then the other? as when I changed back,, again you hear the differences.
Yes Matt’s Definitely make differences you have to tweak it for your cartridge for your app for your room everything if it sounds good and right that’s the right Matt.
With the 150 definitely get some oil in that bearing couple of drops spin it and it will slowly go down
Congratulations on the new halo :-)
The best way to buy a turntable is by listening to them at a dealer. When I bought the NAD C558 I mentioned in my response to the last video, I also auditioned a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo and went in fully expecting to prefer the Evo because the specs were superior in every way; carbon fibre tonearm, Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, TPE damped steel platter and adjustable feet compared to an aluminum tonearm, Ortofon OM10 cartridge, glass platter and non-adjustable feet but my listening experience was that I found the Evo fatiguing and preferred the NAD.
Buying a Hi-Fi component is like buying a pair of shoes. Your feet (or ears) either feel comfortable with them or they don't.
Nice you share your precious knowledge with CZcams land. A few additional quirks: Try the turntable without its bottom plate. And maybe it can sit on a shelf or a rack which is open in the middle. This works for me. I like a few sheets of newspaper on the platter much better than a thick rubber mat. And last but not least try another tonearm without the headshell construction. Such a SME tonearm sounded very bad on the Fons CQ-30 I acquired with such an arm on it. A metal platter can sound good and in general a suspended subchassis is a good idea, I think.
Yes I’m a Big fan of the paper Matt to just a little bit impractical
You make passing reference to the arm cable exiting under the plinth. With a floating subchassis turntable it's really important to remember that the arm cable acts, in effect, as a fourth suspension spring and it's vital that it's dressed so it doesn't effectively by-pass the suspension. Linn's solution, with the LP12 (which, in principle, has an identical suspension arrangement to the Thorens) was to dress the arm cable so it wasn't pulling against the sprung suspension then secure it (tightly!!) to the plinth crossmember using a nylon "P" clip; this is certainly something that would be worth experimenting with and can be researched further on the 'net; there are some excellent LP12 set-up vids on CZcams and what's good for a Linn will work well on a TD 150. Also try removing the foam rubber inserts from the three springs (these were merely to help prevent footfall jumps) as these compromise the absolute decoupling / isolation of the suspension. Finally sprung subchassis decks are happiest sitting on a very lightweight (but rigid) platform; try it on a wooden lightweight coffee table or a small plywood sub-shelf loosely sitting on an existing shelf; costs nothing to try and you may well be amazed! Ikea used (and may still) sell a lightweight but very rigid bamboo chopping board for a little over a tenner and one of these, combined with three oak coned feet from eBay, makes an almost sate-of-the art turntable shelf for very little money. I hope some of this is informative and helps
Yes good stuff particularly the cheap versions from IKEA what are usually do is tie the output cable to the wall I put a screw in the wall so it’s not touching the box or anything really thanks a lot Kelvin
My first turntable was a Trio KD 1033 with a shure Me95ed, which was replaced by Thorens TD 160B Mk11 i have also had linn std and rega decks, but none come near my Ariston RD11s with an Infinity Black widow tonearm. I recently set up a Kuzma gls with two fourteen inch arms with two Micro benz cartridges for a friend. absolutely stunning sounding deck but would I pay the astronomical price to play a £40.00 blue note recording. Not at all. I would rather purchase a whole library of recordings and a new cartridge. As you Know Kelvin keeping the stylus and records clean are one of the first principals of vinyl replay. Keep the vids coming very enjoyable.
After closer "inspection". The really good Thoréns vintage tonearm is the TP 90, TP 50 sat on the 316s and 318s.
Really enjoyed this review Kelvin. What material did you dampen the inside with? D#
I am thinking of getting an old Thorens TD150 and restoring/upgrading & improving it. The idea is to have a new plinth custom made out of solid hardwood, get a new armboard pre-cut for a Rega arm (any RB250/RB300, etc. arm is better than a vintage SME), get a RB300 or RB303 and make a few mods to the arm & look at power supply upgrades. I would probably go for either an acrylic or cork mat. I think this would be an interesting project if I can find the cash.
My old Lenco GL75 got much better after I got hold of a blank record to set up the counter bias with. Also fitting 3 isolation spikes. I built a solid plinth made of 5 horizontal sheets of 18mm plywood then facing that on the outside with Welsh slate 1 inch thick and reinforced the cabinet it sits on with massive reinforced cantilevers drilled into the brick wall with massive bolts that are about the width of a brick. Never attempted suspending it from the ceiling yet, but after a tonearm change, idler wheel change, three different tonearm cables, 4 different phono preamps and 3 different cartridges, I've just bought a Cyrus CD6s. Used from Ebay of course.
And guess what? Now the CD6s has arrived, my record deck sounds better.
I had a thorens with s m e arm years ago the one where you physically had to change the belt over from 33 to 45 r p m. Can’t remember what happened to it or where it went.
I don’t care much about turntables but your accent got me.
Back in 1985 I had a Dunlop Systemdek 2X with a Linn Basik tone arm. Sounded lovely and had great reviews. Why do you think it sounded so bad?
Those old Thoréns are Great startingpoints for tweaking. Good quality turntables. Prefer the Thoréns TP 50 tonearm, theyre really good, but I think they were only standard on the 320 and 520 turntables.
The PL12D was a very good BUDGET turn table, we sold hundreds of them often with a Sure M75ED cartridge. Clearly not as good as the TD150/SME combo but it was 20% of the price. A good compromise was the TD145 /2 with the integral arm, carbon fiber if I remember. Not to be confused with the integral arm of the TD150 which was dreadful.
Hi Michael. When you mention the integral arm of the TD 150 do you mean the cannonball arm? The arm with the spherical weights? I've read mixed opinions on that arm. Some say it's a very good arm. I ask because I have a TD150 and I've always wanted to track down an original arm for it. Cheers. Mark.
Replaced the old belt on my TD150 recently, and the wow and flutter was greatly reduced.
I have put a linn top plate, platter, sub chassis and bearing springs nuts bolts and grommets onto a 150. Ariston/Linn just got their tape measure out and measured a 150 and rebuilt it with some finer engineering.
Hi, I enjoyed your video, I'm also in the UK. I have a TD-150 and I need to wire a plug back onto the power cable but I cant figure out which is live and which is neutral. Any ideas? Many thanks
The best Turntable combination I've owned was a Thorens 160, Hadcock Unipivot arm and a Grado F1 cartdidge,
Very time consuming to set up but sounded wonderful through a Nytech CTA 252 receiver and JR 149s,
mind you this was back in the 80s. After a serious accident whilst transporting the Thorens ( which was damaged
beyond repair ) I have finished up with a modified Rega 3 with a rather expensive Ortofon just for the ease of
setting the damn thing up.
I had exactly the same system loved it but the amp was unreliable
My SME 3009 has the connector coming out at right angles, so it fits within the TD150 plinth.
Great comments I am drawn to Thorens hope I can afford it!
Original 150 is not to expensive 225 pounds
My Sl-1210 Mk2 sits on a large plywood slab on top of a small semi-inflated bike inner-tube. Pretty much kills all ambient vibrations, and the tank-like build of the SL does the rest ;)
Thorens TTs from that vintage sound excellent, especially the 150 with it's zinc alloy cast platter as long as you use a custom arm. The stock arm was a rather clunky thing. They are an improvement over the orignal AR TT with it's three point sprung suspension. Linn took that idea even further but the cost was too high for most folks so a Thorens came very close at a much lower price.
Yes the linen was basically a slightly better engineered bigger 150
Funny thing I think the symmetry of the 150 sub chassis which is like a T
Maybe what I prefer about it compare to the 160 which has anerratic shaped sub chassis which oscillates
CheersK
Cheers Kelvin buddy.
Very interesting stuff Kelvin. I assume you realize that all the descriptions of these TT tweaks, combined with stating how they can all make a difference to the sound quality, shows how very fickle and complicated it is to set up and get the best sound from a given turntable, not to mention the ongoing maintenance and expense, compared to a good CD player. I have a lot of original records so it's good fun playing some of them when I'm in the mood for it but generally I have found playing CD's just as enjoyable, more convenient and more cost effective.
Yes Fairpoint points my friend I would say the Thorens 150 is extremely simple
I think it has one resistor
Will check out the eclipsing to
Cheers K
Love my Thorens Td166 mk2, Jelco arm, Ortofon mc cartridge nearly as much as my Pioneer PL12d Shure M75ed cartridge. Keep it vintage.
Jelco arms arms are very good, many Jelco arms were re-badged for the likes of
Mission(774LC), Ariston and they also made many Linn arms..still do.
Sadly, the company has since ceased trading, citing the pandemic as one of, but not the only, reason.
the only thing i have done to my thorens turntable is that i polished the aluminum platter to a mirror shine ;) looks so much better
Ahhhh, the great Thorens TD150. A far cheaper way of owning a Linn LP12, great video, Kelvin.
Very true
I heard that Ivo Tiefenbrunn, Founder of Linn, studied in Lausanne/Switzerland, where he was "inspired" by a Thorens TD 150...
Hi,,i have the mk2, AT shibata,,i made a cover for it , would really appreciate some advice on a phono stage. Im buying an Arcam Solo and need a phono stage,,thinking of Rega fono mk5,,Schiit Mani 2,,,,,please any advice,,running MA brass speakers, qed Silver anniv cable,,,music Floyd, prog,,folk..thank you if you have a time to help Chris
Torens is a very nice piece and the price is expensive.This is one amazing turntable.
Yes indeed
I have a TD 160 Jelco 550S tonearm , GoldNote Donatello Red Cartridge. Your prices and 500% low in 2021 York phono Stage. Made a Sandbox 4” of sand over with 1/8” Acyilic sheet. Floats on 10 half racket ball. Just a marvellous kit
I bought a wool mat. Pricey but not nice. So I saturated it with silicone, the kind they sell in tubes. That really changed the sound. It became meatier, solid. The arm was sml or something like that. Tried many cartridges but to my ears Shure was the best. Gave it to my sis and I went for reel. Bad idea.
My Turntable is a Revolver black ash with a Linn tonearm with a Linn K9 Cartidge with a Audio Tecnica VMN95ML stylus.. & it's mounted on the Target wall table ..
Brilliant deck. Mine has a Linn Ittok arm and K9 cartridge. It sounds outstanding. I bought this one as a replacement for my Pink Triangle turntable which started to run slow.
Best sound tip: clean the record with a mix of 1 liter of distilled/mineral water, 50cc of spiritus ketonatus (alcohol) and 2 drops of Dreft dishwashing soap in the record washer. You can do 50 records with it. Second tip: replace the wires in the arm with Cardas. Thorens 160b with zebrano case and with Jelco 250 st arm here with Nagaoka mp200 cartridge. Also restored a Thorens 150 with quilted maple case and Lamborghini orange cover and orange mat from Funk firm. Muffsy diy preamp. Into Naim Superuniti. The sansui 222 mkii has a very good Jelco arm. The thorens tp13a arm is very good, if you have all the parts:-).
I see you are using the ADC LMG-1 Magnesium headshell instead of the original SME, did you find any improvement?
Oh for sure I don’t think theSME headshell is good at all actually it’s quite Bendy
Cheers K
In the mid1960s I nearly bought a Thorens turntable with a SME arm. I like it very much. At a trade show I asked a Thorens rep about that versus Empire. I was amazed he told me I'd be happy with Empire. I took his advice and never regretted it.
The suspended sub chassis was invented by Acoustic Research. Many companies copied it. AR copied Thorens separate outer trim ring as did many other companies. The original AR turntable performed as well as the Thorens at half the price in the US. Even today a used Empire in mint condition would still be my first choice. The prices you quoted for the Thorens SME combination seem like a very good value in today's market of the rediculous.
Yes prices are just going up and up it’s true
Funny thing with Turntable is is I think even the designers don’t know when they’ve got a total winner on their hands it’s too hard to work out
@@stereoreviewx For my money this remains the winner even after 45 years.
www.ebay.com/itm/363282549682?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAAkDmxQzClob%2Bnb4gvDk8%2B77rU%2BeyvkdFMzrl50EJNQ9Mir%2BMU0RXd1Hxp%2Be0UBD58vOvVLVCzwnGN3wO1zwxzsVS5%2FW7XCMBDSmQoF3UnHV2UXqqh3j0zH8%2FR4DRsB%2FoDlIyuX1yjN2sIaB2REduaG49QZKOMp045ROWCJkBnfcEv9JRa748omkFO5Xyyw8M4Tg%3D%3D&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=363282549682&targetid=1262931797002&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9004030&poi=&campaignid=12875707640&mkgroupid=122405477196&rlsatarget=pla-1262931797002&abcId=9300535&merchantid=6296724&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGiSPO8bbFevYp8LODcX2xH4-9pfvnquTYXywJzBVfOZNXbZfdJxGeQaAnf8EALw_wcB
I bought mine used in 1982 used in mint condition for about $200. I also have an older version, 398 which is very similar.
Among my cartridges is the one I use in this turntable, the Shure V15 Type V MR. This is among the best tracking cartridges ever made. When Shure ended production of it the Library of Congress bought out all of Shure's remaining stock. Among other winners I have are Empire 999VE, Empire 4000D/III, Empire 999TE/X and Shure V15 Type II Improved. These cartridges track records at very low tracking force without jumping out of the groove or distorting. They have very high compliance, low dynamic mass, excellent channel separation, and their output is an order of magnitude greater than most moving coil cartridges (which I don't like for many reasons.) One reason that Shure ended its production of V15 type V MR is that it was very difficult to manufacture the hollow beryllium cantilever.
What makes Empire turntables so good disregarding their very attractive appearance. The platter itself is an 8 pound machined aluminum casting in the 698, 6 pounds in the 398. They are individually balanced and you can see the evidence by the holes drilled in the underside of the thick outer rim. The journal bearing is very large and are matched pairs machined to 1/100,000 inch. Claimed rumble is -90 db unweighted. The motor is a high torque Pabst Hysteresis Synchronous type that gets the turntable up to speed in 1/4 turn or less, an NAB requirement. It also exceeds NAB requirements for wow and flutter. The speed is adjustable.
The tonearm is an aluminum tube. Tracking force is applied with a long clock mainspring device so that the center of mass of the arm is at the pivot point. This is called dynamic balance. Most tonearms apply tracking force with a mass imbalance by adjusting the counterweight. The bearings are sapphires, not ball bearings. When the overhand is properly set tracking error over a phonograph error doesn't exceed 1 percent. The tonearm resonance with high compliance cartridges is well damped at 9 to 11 hz, below the lowest recorded frequency and above the record warp frequency. Antiskating force on my 398 is applied using the same method as the SME arm. On the 698 another mainspring is used. Force gages show the indicated tracking force on the tonearm settings is calibrated dead on. the 698 has a suspended sub chassis which is another aluminum casting. The 398 does not.
Since I am a fan of using equalizers I can get the tone to be whatever I think it needs to be.
I've been thinking of a simple DIY project for further isolation from vibrations. It would consist of a large wood frame made by 2" by 4" lumber. Picture hanger wires would be mounted across opposite sides just held in by wood screws. they would support a piece of plywood the turntable could sit on. The only vibrations besides in air reaching the turntable would be through the picture hanger wires. Cost would be well under $20. Or I could buy an optical table for $1000.
I had a TD160 (sry but i forgot the specifics), but the unit came with a shure m44 or something like that and an SME arm, and it was 1KCAD$. Wonderful wonderful! I sold it. Then I bought a modded ARXA 500CAD$. Never looked back! If we’re talking about minute details, the AR XA seemed to me to have the upper hand. I think this is because it has literally no details! Its so simple there is very little room for blemishes in sound. I used a few carts on this, including the famed shure v15iii, or my fav budget cart, ortofon ff15xe mk2
Yes the auto fun FF15E I’d really like to buy that today
Thanks for the info K
here is a good audio isolation material, jelly! Yes, jelly that you get from Tesco's in a plastic pack, the cubes. Don't add hot water or even take them out the packet, amazing isolation!
Yeah repackage it and sell it for £100 a cube
Good fun as always, Kelvin. Have you ever gone British made and got your hands on a Michell deck?
They were and still are on the pricey side but lovely things.
I think lockdown has made a significant impact on used equipment prices.
Let’s hope the pubs open up again soon and life and prices can return to normal.
Cheers
Yes I’m hopeful that the buy it now price is it going to drop because nobody buys them
@@stereoreviewx Agreed.
A mate and I were walking up and down a very affluent high street yesterday and even there, there were no shops of any note. The high street, retail shop wise, is in a right pickle (Even before the pandemic).
Remember HiFi shops? Ha.
They were places where people (predominantly men) used go into, to “spend a bit of time” it was a great pastime, sometimes you even bought something!
I've had a 150MKII since 1972. The main problem with this TT model is that the motor isn't shielded. They are 'hummers' as a result. The better your system, the more apparent the hum is. This has been discussed over @Vinyl Engine at great length. What I did was to have a very thin piece of gal steel cut exactly like a record. I glued that to the outer platter only(so I could still remove platter)....replace your mat over that(hopefully not the original). This cut down on the hum by about 80%. Short of getting an EE involved, I don't know if you can completely reduce the hum. I think a thin metal box could be fashioned to surround the motor to some effect. Or.....just buy a better foundation TT to start. I had Dave @Vinyl Nirvana tweak mine many yrs ago;fatter plinth, Rega arm, suspension tune etc.
I made an enclosure for it that hangs from the ceiling. The curse of older houses are plaster walls and/or construction that carries feedback right into your cart at loud listening levels.You don't have to use "chains"....small cable is almost invisible.
Thanks for the info
Hi Kelvin, I have a Thorens td 160, it's a wonderful turntable but if you walk near it or touch it slightly it's start skipping. Do you know what this could be?
Well I’m guessing it’s on something that sits on the floor and the floor is wood
Two things I would say one turntables are definitely best attach to a concrete wall, not sitting anywhere on the floor or attached. Also you can adjust the springs you’re probably not isolating the platter from the box
It’s hitting somewhere basically
@@stereoreviewx Thanks kelvin, I have have them on a wooden floor, so that must be it, will try the concrete wall. Thank you!
I have the same one but mk2 paid £23 for it at Auction and it needed a small arm weight which I bought for £22.00 off ebay, might upgrade it like yours but it says Tandberg on it so unsure whether it would be a wise move.
Oh yes I think I have seen them with Tandberg is the same deck though
I don’t know which Dunlop Systemdek that you are referring to, you must be talking about the biscuit tin one. My Systemdek IIX 900 is superb with a Rega RB250 arm.
Yes I think you’re right
hi all...im looking for someone to service my Marantz 2238 BL...im in Kent, does anybody know someone reliable ? thank's
Hello Kelvin from Meaford Ontario Canada, I am about to purchase a Thorens TD 160 from a friend, I plan to upgrade and modify and build a solid oak plinth. ..I heard by using brass screws and nuts it also helps in dampening are the screws needed for Thorens available in brass ?
Well, don’t rightly know about the screws now just in case that has the original Matt which is kind of ribbed
Interestingly, it’s absolute terrible
Defo get a new mat or a different Matt flat, rubber cork, whatever you fancy. Also don’t forget to put some oil in the bearing if no one has done that for years they dry up
I am a huge fan of thorens BTW
Fantastic Kelvin, ya I plan to trick this table right out , I like the look and dampening of a cork mat and I plan on an aluminum weight for vinyl and I will be definitely purchasing Cardas silver phono wire for tone arm and luckily I just happen to have some Cardas silver solder to use on ...sweet , nice to meet you Kelvin and your reviews good sir are spot on ..I own a Sansui Receiver model 7000 a Naim Audio Amplifier Nait 5i, Nakamichi TA -3a receiver, Nakamichi BX 300 tape deck, Nakamichi CDP -2A Cd player, B&W V201s modified using a Royd Audio design utilizing a rubber compound anti vibration chalk in a pvc tube behind tweeter increased accuracy in highs by 12% , B&W Zepplin drivers made into bookshelf precision speakers also using Royd Audio technology lol I use to sell Royd and Exposure in Canada at Oakville Audio exclusive rights to John Farlow s Serious Amplification System s I had dinner with John after work when he and his son visited our store. ..peace Kelvin
A lot of people won't give Japanese turntables of the early 80s a second look because they look like they're made of cheap plastic, but that's not always the case. Sony and Yamaha - and no doubt others - cast plinths in resin compounds, which gave them weight and rigidity.
Humm, go back to the 80’s and you’ll find out superb Japanese turntables, very solid, metal and very well built devices (Pioneer, Luxman, Yamaha, Kenwood, etc).
Yes Fairpoint those would be the expensive ones eh K
Open up an SL-1200 and marvel at the build of those things - cast chassis, bulk-molding compound, thick rubber base AND a heavy, rubber-damped cast platter.
@@adampoll4977 Sure. You don't need to open that very one in particular (which is the most renown worldwide, of course) but try with Luxman L-30 and all the PD series, Pioneer Pl 530, Kenwood 5077, Yamaha pf800, Marantz 6300, etc, etc.
oil filled mat - genius!!
The alignment of the cartridge, the VTA and the tracking weight have a massive effect on sound. Get a good alignment protractor they are about 10 quid and then align the cartridge to the 2 points. The outer point is set by turning the cartridge left or right in the head and the inner one then has to be set by pushing the cartridge backwards or forwards. To get it REALLY accurate stick a thin pencil lead with some sellotape to the front of the cartridge. Set the VTA so the arm is dead level and then check you have the tracking weight is right for your cartridge. Don't rely on the scale on the arm it won't be correct instead use a small scale either digital or like a little seesaw... also on top make sure the whole caboodle is level...agree with the wall shelf thing too... wife won't love you with it but your records will .....lol
yes I agree it is a constant surprise how much this matters
For the base get some marble slab. Isolate it with rubber foam. Stable!
I have a Sony 5520. My question is on some albums that I play. I get very bad low frequency, speaker flutter, I suppose that’s what you could call it. The woofer goes back-and-forth violently but it’s only on some albums. Why is this and on other albums? It sounds like an AM radio.
Any help is appreciated thank you. Enjoy watching the videos. Please continue to make more very informative your friend from the United States.
Do you mean vinyl?
If it’s vinyl, it’s literally rumble from the Turntable. I could even be walking across the floor.
Some amplifiers have rumble filter or low pass filter for that reason
Ok thank you
Where can I buy an sme 3009?
😅😅😅 I thought I was the only mad guy who "tweaked" a thorens turn table.
Try a Linn LP12 Kelvin, I think you'll like it.
Yes I
Certainly want to
I'd say try the road less traveled! The Linn can be a money pit of additions, tweaks and snake oil. If you can find one, try a deck called The Manticore Mantra. Did a head to head with that and the Sondek at Sound Organisation in London Bridge in the late 80s. The Mantra beat it in speed, bass clarity, ( not a Sondek strong point) and the overall way it handled the music. Cost less, too. Good luck Kelvin!👍👍👍
What oil have you used for the td 150 platter bearing lubrication?
Hi grade car engine oil
Any decent one, it’s high-tech stuff
Are there any thorens preferences for oil viscosity?
3:05 - “expensive turntables get heavier and heavier”...not true with Rega turntables. Their philosophy is that heavier materials simply store more energy, which when released makes the music muddy. Thus, their P10 is a lightweight but exceptionally rigid.
When they’re £20,000
Just show me a 10,000 + dollar high end light weight turntable, . . . . . EXACTLY. ! ! !
Hi Kelvin how do you rate the Harman Kardon amplifier range of the 70’s?
Yes I have one is pretty dam good better than most anyway for sure
@@stereoreviewx which model do you have Kelvin? I am looking at a 930
How I wish I can have one of that turntable that you have Kelvin.
You can find quite a lot of them on eBay (some with upgraded tonearms, some without) but you should definitely think of a purchase like that as a fixer-upper rather than a ready to go product.
Sometimes you get a 150 with the original silver arm and no anti scaring correction I I think that’s a bargain
Might be £150
I love my rega
Your boys over at Rega would disagree about your turntables needing to be heavy weights. Their highest grade platter is skeletal. I had found the use of spikes underneath socks the vibrations down and to a piont. 3 points are easier to balance than 4. These spikes, brass is the best for damping, sit on a 4 in.block of maple .This is were the vibrations are held. The block should be clear coated to increase the isolation. I put iso-blocks underneath to dampen any thing that slips by. A thinner rubber mat would be better for stability. My rig has a thin rubber mat with a woven carbon ring on top
Sounds like you’re on top of the game K
I spy a pair of Kef daleks in the background (105's?) - I'd love to see a video on those, please, as I've always fancied a pair.... Thanks! ;0)
Yeah I reviewed those kef 105 if you click the channel icon and then press videos you’ll see lots of other reviews cheers K
@@stereoreviewx Will do; I've just subscribed too. I remember hearing the Kefs at the Harrogate show when they were just launched; they were driven by a Quad 405 and they were playing Tarkus by Emerson Lake and Palmer from a master tape copy played on a Sony U-Matic vcr; Very early digital (CD hadn't been launched at this point). That must have been about 45 years ago! Not a fan of the music at all but the system obviously left a lasting impression. Thanks for the reply and stay safe and sane my friend ;o)
Oil for the bearing is often ‘snakeoil’. But the secret is W0-30......
Small screws lightly tightened on the armboard 'may' be a design feature to slightly decouple the arm from the subchassis to control resonances. Depends on your arm and cart combination but tighter and stiffer is not always better. The TD150, RD11 and LP12 are fundamentally flawed designs as the suspension design allows the arm to rotate around the platter. You can reduce this somewhat by having a super high precision main bearing and complex motor control as with the LP12 and other tweaks but with the cheaper designs like this it's always going to be a problem. Not saying the 150 can't be musical and entertaining but IME not worth spending loads upgrading them. If you want a cheap but high performance suspended subchassis deck look at the Systemdek IIX900 which will allow you to fit a Rega arm which will raise performance significantly. The TD150 is too small and the suspension too light to take them.
What's the best way to get the arm and the platter parallel
I don’t know you just have to look at it and then look at it you can tell
I see when Linn have done set up videos, they use a clear acrylic block with lots of horizontal lines on it, that sits on the platter. You line the arm up, by eyeballing it against the closest line. I am wondering if that device can be purchased, as I have never seen one for sale. I just eyeball it, like hanging a picture frame - with a keen eye.
You say the more expensive a turntable the heavier it gets.. What about my Rega P10? Its as light as can be and it sounds wonderful. As for rigidity, we'll can you explain why my Funk Firm Houdini decoupler works so well and vastly improves the sound of the P10. Rigidity is fine but it's not everything.
I have a Modified and highly upgraded Thorens TD 160 B Mk2 with firmer Linn springs and bolts, a real wood plinth, a thick wooden base, A Linn Lid and sub platter damping, re-machined platter with a sandwiched Cork and Acrylic mat, new armboard, feet and Audiomods 6 arm.
The original Thorens springs and plinth were dire with the springs being far too bouncy and quivering like a jelly.
The original Thorens TD 150 and 160 were never great shakes and your assessment of the Systemdek is totally hilarious. I had two of them back in the day, one with a Rega arm and the other with a Mission arm and they sounded fantastic... Much better than my Manticore Mantra at the time.
I'm sorry to say that going by your comments regarding rigidity, weight, expense and paper spacers is laughable, and your finger isn't on the pulse.
Go listen to a modern (Lightweight) Rega P8 and P10 with a (Flexible) decoupler and see how daft your comments are.
Sorry mate but I thought your channel was going to be interesting but Nah!! It's turned out to be a comedy show with someone who's watch stopped in the 1970s
It's funny when some comments get an answer and others don't, it because the OP doesn't want to go there as he has been made to look stupid.
Great as ever. You are unkind about Systemdek and you may well be right about the round space age looking models but the IIX is excellent.
Yes I think I agree with you is that round one where ever it’s called
so what mat are you using now?
I have a couple of rubber mats I can’t remember what mate they are
Truly, I’m not as fanatical on that kind of thing as I used to be
Rega 6,8 and 10 are all quiet light hardly any plinth there at all.
Whats a good price for one of these please
Hopefully you can get just the deck for around £150 or that would be euros also or dollars
I mean with original arm not a nice arm I actually don’t mind the original arm too much
@@stereoreviewx thank you for your reply. Theres one up here in northumberland £300. Mite give it a miss. Would love a video on top ten turntables to buy and a rough price they go for. Cheers👍🏻
How often do you oil your bearing?
Couple of years
Thank you Kalvin from London.
Great review, Kelvin. But I think you are a bit optimistic about the cost of an SME arm. If you can find a complete one starting from £500,- to £600,- you should count your self lucky. At least I have been looking out for one at eBay and this is what I see.
Really that shocking I mean sometimes you can get the arm with a not very special deck and it’s the same price as they arm alone that does happen sometimes
12 months ago I had a cheap numark turntable that I have owned for 15 years and a cheap amp, I've ended the year with with a Technics 1200 with a Nagaoka cartridege and a Technics su-7700k amp, I'm not going any further because I might go insane. 😃😃🤣
I did that same thing with the arm board on my Linn LP12 and the factory actually called me at RAF Barford St Johns to explain why I shouldn't do that when they were upgrading my bearing. There is a sonic reason you want just enough at that junction or you start transferring noise from the suspension to the tonearm board. Make sense? Thorens and other suspended chassis turntable manufactures use the best science and that isn't always the brick shit house approach so to speak.
In the end it cost me for a new arm board and they put it on for free just to get me to switch it back.
Done put anything between your cartridge and the head shell, that is a no-no and you noticed it in the change in tone. Good screws and a snug mount will do. The wires should be stiff enough that they don't move to cause microphonics. I've never had that problem, but I always used high quality wire between the cartridge and tonearm.
I remember once I did tie the wires together cartridge wires I mean as I remember it was a plus not a huge one.
Now you know regarding these turntable tweaks I am not sure anyone truly knows the finer points of this or you know how easy it is to measure it because that’s how companies work with measurements.
It may depend on whether you have a nice shelf mounted on a brick wall And then other factors won’t come into play basically it’s a minefield good luck thanks for your info though I appreciate your feedback
Not all expensive turntables designs are mega mass designs. Your own English manufactured Rega brand by Roy Gandy is light weight like 10lbs but rigid as heck.
Sure I mean I meant when you get into the 10 or £20,000 bracket K
You need to pull the energy out of the bearing best way to do this is to get a squash all and some tungsten powder and get it from sports shops used in golf clubs or from buffalo tungsten powder C80 the one you want. Make sure you fill the squash ball enough that it's fill to the top when pushed on Super Glue it to the bottom of the plinth this helps dramatically. and use gearbox oil as well 85w-90. What oils have you used what do you prefer. Is it best to put your turntable on a piece of foam open cell cellulose covering the whole bottom.
And you need to learn the arm pivot point needs to be at record level ideally not level with the record. tip the cartridge at 5 to 7 degrees you can get a piece of bolster Wood 10 mm thick cut a slope at 5 to 7 degrees slope so you can lower the back of the arm as much as possible this is very important this was studied by acoustic research in the 60s produces a more steady tone and reduces jitter on the record service. No need to bring the back weight of the arm forward of course and this helps with mass dispersion and keeping mass to the centre of gravity try and keep your rake angle at 92 degrees thereabouts the less angle you have the more bass the more angle you have the more top end this needs to be adjusted on the fly to get it perfect you can do this by using packing under the mat then knowing the distance setting a shim or dialling in.
Change the platter get a delrin platter they're not expensive does that have the sub planter platter I've got the one 160 I'm after an SME arm you got a spare one you want to sell
Plenty of great turntables at good prices..Ariston RD80's can be picked up very cheaply..a poor mans lp12! had one for over 20 years..good solid engineering wipes the floor with anything under £500 that you can buy new. A marble or ball bearing works well for levelling up.
Turntables are vibration detection machines, precision instruments.
Great to see youngsters buying up vinyl shame they play it back on such crap.
Turntables are a tweaker's paradise
Are there any differences between the Swiss and the German made turntables?
Nope. Check out The Vinyl Engine, He rebuilds/sells a LOT of vintage Thorens. The Thorens decks became very popular and Thorens could not keep with demand. Quality is said to be identical. Love my 166 mk2, original tonearm and Denon 103 MC.
@@andrewkatz8813 you mean vinyl nirvana.
@@zagyex You are SPOT ON. Thanks for correcting.
I can't stop looking at the little weight on a string.
Most of the project TT have them-am not a fan TBH I have one project and its a pain-I also have a rega which looks better without such a weight......................great vid as always Kev
it's for anti-skate, some arms use an adjustable spring system
or magnets...
Come back Kelvin!
I’m back
@@stereoreviewx 🎆🎆🎆
2:15 The reason you find many SMEs on Thorens-TTs is because Thorens offered them too f.e. with the TD 125 MkII! The TD 125 is still one of the best ever made turntables. However I own two 150s as well, and I absolutely love them.
Thorens TD 150: Sondek for the masses? 🤔
You mean Linn Sondek, the tax-avoidance copy of Thorens TD160? :D
@@zagyex Got my mid 1990s spec. Sondek for around 350 quid back in 1995 from an audiobuddy who became disillutioned with vinyl and anything hi fi related - which is kinda sad.
With suspended turntables you need to put them on the wall. Eiter a wall shelf, or just raise the front feet of your stand and fix the top back to the wall.
And then you're done! I think there is no practical sense in going anywhere above (price-wise) the Thorens TD 160-s, if you are interested in music.
If you want to represent, feel better, you are religious and not afraid of snake oil, then there is of course.
Agreed I had my 160 on a wall bracket that was made for turntables, that calmed things down a bit.
Kelvin! Sorry... damn auto correction;(
You remind me of Pete Townshend.
Turntables are not unlike electric guitars; wood, metal and electronics. Everything contributes to the final sound.
Sounds right I hate to think what a plastic guitar would sound like