U-Turn Orbit Theory- Can It Compete With A Flagship Vintage Turntable?
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- We had a blast putting this new U-turn Theory turntable through the paces. Kevin shares his thoughts on its value and whether it stacks up against a flagship turntable from the golden era of 70s stereo equipment.
Check out www.skylabsaudio.com/shop for cool T-shirts, Q-up tonearm lifts, speaker stands, Grado products and more!
Q-Up tonearm lifts $45- skylabsaudio.com/product/the-...
linktr.ee/skylabsaudio
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @skylabsaudio - Věda a technologie
Wow, I really enjoyed this video. Thanks Kevin for this 🙂
The fully machined and grooved platter is a huge plus as well.
Kevin, I don't consider this type of video a commercial. We enjoy your commentary about everything else, this UTurn is yet another piece of quality equipment. Thanks for Moving in Stereo.
ps. I just asked my wife for a new Cars album for my birthday ( I'm impossible to buy for ) My old one from 1978 has been played 100s of times over the years.
Thank you, Craig! Hope you have an excellent birthday!
@@skylabsaudio thanks, 60 this year, where does the time go?
Just discovered your CH. Subscribed. Am AV engineer, old repairer, vinyl owner, speaker designer, occasional VC viewer. Own some great vintage gear as well. Will look through your vids this month. Thanks.
Kevin, thanks for the review on new equipment. Whats makes the audio hobby so much fun is we can mix new with vintage and get great sound. And I want to get that Cars audiophile debut album. Its one of the greatest debut album of all time.
Agree on both fronts! Thanks John
I love mine, got it when they first came out with the Bronze cartridge! It is addictive to use and listen to.
Great review. I bought an Orbit in 2015, I was just getting back into vinyl. I freaking loved it. It sounded amazing for the money. Since then, I’ve upgraded to a Rega P8, but I still have the Orbit in my secondary system and it still sounds great.
I’m thinking about upgrading from the Orbit to the Theory. This video reminded me about everything I love about this company and their dedication to making great gear here in the U.S.
I loved your thoughtful, thorough approach to the review. It’s clear your conclusions are unbiased despite getting a free review unit. That is usually not true with other reviewers.
I have an Orbit with an Ortofon Blue, and it’s great. U-Turn makes really nice stuff for the price.
Great review! Appreciate your thoughtful analysis. Looking forward to visiting your shop on next road trip to CO this fall.
Very satisfied Theory w/Bronze owner here. Also own a very large collection of vintage gear. I almost always prefer vintage. The U-Turn Orbit Theory is worthy of Golden Era status.
Two thumbs up for U-Turn. I have the walnut U-Turn Orbit with the Ortofon red that I got from Skylabs and it's been solid. I'm more familiar with 1970s turntables than what's new when making comparisons. I like that U-Turn is a USA company making simple, but functional gear. I'm willing to pay more to support a domestic company. You give up some of the nerd-out features with these turntables that more complicated ones had back in the hey-day, but they're not really necessary things for most use cases. The most important part of any turntable for me is how quiet it is and my U-Turn is much quieter than a Pro-Ject Debut III I spent way too much money trying to make quiet. I had more money wrapped up into the Pro-Ject than the U-Turn cost me and they were basically identical specs (acrylic platter, 2M red cartridges.) The Pro-Ject with its AC motor never lost its hum.
Well stated, a removable headshell would definitely have been a nice choice for this upgraded model. or make the removable headshell an available option for those who prefer it.
I have trying to see if there's a way to modify my U-turn Orbit to modify it to take remobable headshells and I still ahve not found a reliable choice. Changing or modifying the entire Tone arm is the only choice I have found so far!
I also own a Fluance Turntable and I love the ability to swap my different phono cartridges.
I had a choice between a new TT or a refurbished Dual CS 721. I went with the Dual. The Theory has a better warranty. That is the advantage. So far the Dual sounds fine and has better torque to allow use of discwasher. It also has removable cartridge sleds. A Grado Prestige Gold sounds fantastic on the Dual 721
Much better turntable.
Great table, minimalistic and with amazing looks. for one grand I believe this is a win win. Thanks Kevin!
Excellent and objective review. The sound and how addictive is to use it, IMO is because how simple, solid and well made it is. My hat off for UTurn Audio.
Hi Kevin, it's true when you have to send your TT overseas to Rega or Project, that's an issue. But U-Turn had the problem for europeans that they can't handle the 50 hertz from our electric network. But now i heard that they fixed this problem. Greetings from Germany 😉
Very Helpful, thanks !!
Another helpful video. I have an Orbit Theory with the Bronze cartridge and after resurrecting my vinyl love the Theory has been very impressive to my fresh vinyl ears but even impressing my long time vinyl loving friends. But the best part about the U-Turn, is the customer service. Something happened to motor and after a quick email and video showing the issue they sent a RA number and packing slip. I packed it up and shipped it back and within two days of them having it I received and email explaining the issue and fix. Stuff happens with high precision gear and after going out on a limb with U-Turn they have won me over with a great sounding turntable and crazy good customer service. Now I am back to enjoying the music without worrying about what I am playing it on.
Hello @mebikerace, I'm wondering about the Ortofon Bronze Cartridge.
I assume that you are happy with it.
How is the bass ?
Have you compared the Cartridge to anything else that you might be able to explain what the difference was ?
Thanks
@@williamdenton5716 So far the Broze has been a great cartridge. I have done any comparisons but also haven't felt the need too. I am no expert in cartridges but the Bronze seems well worth its price. I hope this helps in some way. Good luck.
That's a very clean looking table. Someday it would be interesting hearing your thoughts on Dynaco gear, both tube and solid state. Thanks!
Mine just arrived on Friday and I really like it. You can tell it is built solid. I’m upgrading from a Fluance which while it sounded good you can definitely tell the difference in the overall build quality. Normally, the inability to switch out headshells would be a minus, I have finally settled on the Ortofon Blue cart. And I like that it is USA built. Goes well with my LRS speakers and Schiit components.
Great to hear!
Good stuff which amp are you using on the LRS? MMG owner here thinking about getting a pair of LRSs and a new amp.
I’m also upgrading from a Fluance, looking forward to it arriving.
@@lamarw9901 I just saw this post…
I have been using a Schiit Vidar which I am quite happy with.
@@Gardi93 I think you will like it. It’s definitely a better built and solid turntable. I went with the Blue Ortofon (which I also had on the Fluance.) my Fluance also had speed issues which I had to tolerate.
I will mention that after playing it for 3 weeks I had to send it back because the motor platform was bad (kind of floated in free space with a terrible racket. They had it for 7 or 8 days and it has been perfect since. UTurn gave me a $100 credit to use on their online store. I bought 3 records with this. Excellent customer service. I’m very happy with it.
Bought one yesterday and will pair it with the amazing Rogue Sphinx v3 integrated amp with its tube preamp and also made in the USA.
Another great review Kevin ! my added $.03, agree that at this $ point, the included RCA cable should have been an upgrade from the same generic ones they provide with their $200 turntable. should be a set of cables with some sort of brand name (anybody's) on them. there is no mention on their website or your review about the advantage of having a three feet design in leveling a turntable, the included bubble level is a nice touch.
Big props for making the preparatory replacement belt available for the cost of a generic replacement belt from other manufacturers, also a replacement dust cover is only $40.
Electronic speed control is a definite upgrade/bonus (no mention of speed adjustment/fine tuning). I think it has become an audiophile "myth" that manual speed change is somehow better or "more pure" than electronic switching. Technics (+ others) have long ago mastered the "Quartz Lock", "Frequency Generator Servo Feedback", etc. method of speed control. 'nuff said.
But the real deal breaker for me (besides the $$$$) is the lack of auto lift/stop at end of playback, nothing sadder than returning to your turntable hours/day later and seeing the turntable still trying to play that last mysterious inner groove message. Yes I know about the various aftermarket tonearm lift mechanisms available, but I also feel that it's another "myth" that real "High-End" turntables mustn't have this feature.
full disclosure, my current record spinner is a Technics SL-DD22, (in cool black !) direct drive, semi-auto (return). picked up for $30 off of somebody's front porch. cheers, Peter
Thanks for the comment, Peter. Nothing wrong with an SL-DD22, at that price for sure!
(Elvis mumbles...) 🎶"You spin me right 'round, baby, right 'round
Like a record, baby, right 'round, 'round, 'round" 🎶 (Elvis falls back asleep)
Love the new back drop in these videos, looks very cool all the receivers lit up 👍
Kind regards from Turkey 👍🇹🇷
Glad you like it!
The exact results I would expect. Many hate this idea. Well done.
Nice review! I know nothing about the newer TT's, so I picked up on U-Turns commitment to customers and their build quality. I'm good at the moment on TT's, but if I wasn't...
Well damn it now I need one I want one thanks for your time and effort that was a good video good good review I looked at one of those other day and a catalog on thinking that thing is really nice look really nice I like the Simplicity and looks it just looks quality
I have 2 Kenwood KD 500/ 550 turntables, a Thorens TD 165, and a Pro- Ject Debut Carbon DC that get regular use (there are back-ups, automatics, a Dual and a Denon, a Pioneer belt drive, and my trusty Realistic Lab 420). I came across an Orbit Theory at a discount price (demonstrator maybe). What I like: 1. The feet.---- triangle layout, adjustable, and shock absorbing, way above this price point. 2. The tone arm is pretty good for the price range, I think it could play in the same ball park with the older Rega RB 300 (I know there's been updates to the Rega). 3. The drive system is very good, and the platter is already an upgrade. 4. The solid wood base, and the "knob feel" are better than expected. 5. This guy is getting the majority of play time (the only Television in my house is the band). What I didn't like..... the dust cover hinges are an embarrassment, and yeah, the phono leads are cheesy, but easily replaced. Between the Pro-Ject Debut and the Theory, Theory wins hands down. Great bang for buck, especially in my case. I checked set up with Dr. Fieckert, and set anti skate with test records (it's a mechanical weight, no strings, and it has a lock out position for set up). I love my vintage Kenwood direct drives, but they're closing in on 50 years. I stuck my toe in the water with the Debut, and I checked the Theory reviews, then went hunting, and I found just want I wanted. I think Santa is bringing a Bronze this Christmas.
great video, I watch every video you publish
I appreciate that!
I'm trying to work out what this table does that the Fluance RT85 doesn't do for half the price. In fact, the Fluance has better feet that provide more isolation, and I'm one of those that believe an "S" tonearm will track more accurately, which this doesn't have.
So how did the two speeds check, and can it be adjusted? Remember to figure in the $240 price of the included Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, and for another $180 you can upgrade to the 2M Bronze, which I think would be my preference. I do wish they had a red mahogany finish available.
Great video - love your channel. Another reviewer said that he couldn't use it with his vintage receiver because of a persistent a grounding hum that wouldn't go away?? Are these compatible with our vintage receivers such as a Marantz 2238B since the U is grounded internally? Thanks a bunch again keep up the great work Love the channel.
Should work great with any receiver that has a phono preamp.
Great video and love the channel👍 Turntable is certainly an upgrade over the previous models and price points. For me I could never get past the tone arm they used on all their models...that silver/aluminum looking arm just looks so cheap....I know it probably performs well but the look is just cheap in my opinion.....the new tone arm is a huge upgrade! The other negative (which is very minor) is that logo that is so prominent on the left....it always reminds me of driving thru the country and seeing a yellow sign on the side of the road....at least the new model is muted🙏 The only thing you didn't mention is the RCA cables.....hopefully they are detachable and not welded in like Rega?
Looking into getting another TT to go with my beloved cherished Hitachi PS-48 😍 and willing to check this model out because of your review....nice job
Cheers
Thanks for the comment and watching!
Great video. I really like the U turn table. If I purchased a new, modern turntable, it would be at the top of my list. I’m currently waiting y to get my Dual 1219 back from Bill at FixMyDual. I can see myself even buying one at some point, I’ve got kind of a thing for turntables. Some people it’s amps, some it’s speakers, me, it’s turntables.
Thanks for watching!
Check out the Scotish built turntable from Revolver.. the "Black Ash Revolver" when you get the chance & see what you think of them.. I still have mine from the early 90s & I'm satisfied with what I had then & still happy with it now 30yrs later.. Upgrade items can be used Like Stylus .. cargridge.. Plinth.... A target wall fixed Table .. Well worth looking at & see waht your thoughts are..
Will do. Thanks!
Didn't know you did newer turntables you should try doing a review on the pro-ject debut pro thanks
this review was the last thing I needed to pull the trigger, mine is hopefully coming soon
Sounds like a very likeable turntable. I've had three different systems..but my three questions I have is why no dust cover ? And why are the electrical cords are removable..I think that's a terrible idea. And why through in cheap plugs on a 1000.00 turntable. Love your channel , keep up the great work ! And I agree with your closing remarks..the audio systems have gone up in.price..and when you get it it's like you can see where they cut corners...!!!!
It’s so expensive you can get the fluance RT85 that comes with the ortofon 2m blue. Electronic 33/45 rpm switch and a cue level for $500
I picked up a new AR with a top of the line Shure cartridge for about $350.00 in the mid 1980s...I agree about a detachable headshell
It looks like a nice improvement. I'd like to see companies like U Turn, Rega, etc build in auto lift/shutoff. If they put an optical sensor on the arm and solenoid operated cueing, I don't think it'd be that difficult.
Wonderful demonstration, and presentation! And this U-Turn Orbit Theory turntable, belt drive is made in the USA. I'm in Canada, but I like, prefer things, and hi fi audio products American developed, and made. As for myself, IF a removable head shell is designed well, and solidly built, I don't believe it is any ponderous problem. I agree on the U-Turn Orbit company installing a pair of medium priced, more insulated phono RCA cables, too.
Furthermore, from most of the sound of music that I've heard, a removable head shell from a tonearm of high standard, and solidity does not cause a discernible difference. However, I don't mind if it's a single piece tonearm either, as I don't change cartridges much, anyway.🔉🎵🎶
I had a Uturn orbit plus with the cue lever except a built in preamp. It was a good entry level turntable! Their customer service is awesome! I ended up getting a Rega RP3 with a Neo ps for better speed control. The Uturn speed was alittle fast and no way to adjust.
Thanks for sharing!
Question for you. I currently have the UTurn Orbit and though I like it, I'm wanting to upgrade. Seriously considering the Rega 3 with the NEO PS. Since you've the Rega 3. Are you pleased with it? Specifically from a sound POV. Thanks
I have been shopping on and off for over a year for a TT to use for digitizing a few hundred LPs. Plan to use a Tascam CD-RW900SX CD recorder then rip the CDs. I have narrowed down my choices to the Theory w/bronze cartridge and built in pre-amp ($1300) and the Rega P3 50th ($1700 + preamp). I have local Rega service at Audio Advice. Any thoughts on how the turntable / cartridge affects digitizing LPs? I'm considering the P3 50th because my perceived resale value over the regular P3 or Theory. This is going to be my winter project. Thanks
The Fluance RT85 has an acrylic platter, removable headshell & Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge and is $499 USD. How is this turntable worth $500 more?
Exactly. Probably a better motor and tonearm ? But how to measure quality got forgotten somewhere in the nineties....
Removable headshell to me is a must. Autostop/lift is a must. I do like that a USA company is actively creating new turntable options.
Hi Kevin, I have a Debut Carbon Esprit DC SB - The Beatles 1964 (Ortofon 2M Red). Do have any opinion on how it measures up to the Orbit Theory?
Nice to see that you still have a pair of ESS 3b towers(Rock) Back in 79 mine were labeled as Monitors for some reason - In Canada.👍 - 👍 You had in the store - past tense. If you di not mind, were they in great shape and what was the selling price as I will likely be looking for a great pair in a year or two, hopefully from the West Coast or Western Canada. More 👍 - 👍
Yeah they sold that day- Pretty sure they were $1,500 for the pair.
@@skylabsaudio Thanks
Great video. I know this is way off subject, but have you ever considered doing a video on music streamers?
And the reason I ask is because at this point in my life, I don't want to start another collection of physical media. Just curious on your thoughts.
You are soothsayer. Soon! Thanks Jim
For it's price there are other tables like rega or project
I personally would chose
hi, how are you? in your opinion, which is better, U - Turn Orbit Theory or the Fluance RT85?
"It's going to be a fun one." Ha ha
New tone arm is very good quality.
Having broken wires Rega (clip soldered to cart), it is a miserable experience breaking down the arm and wiring a new RCA cable to the wires. The benefit was a much better RCA cable, better wire, and much better clips than what Rega uses. I also agree the removable head shell is a better way to go.
I’ve been on the fence trying to decide if I wanted to really spend that much on a turntable. There are not a lot of reviews on these out there. But, after watching your review I think I will probably do it. Thanks for your honest opinion on the Theory.
Did you end up getting it?
@@carlosbarraza4524 hi Carlos, yes I did. Had it for about a month now. Went all in and did the Ortofon 2m Bronze upgrade. I like it a-lot, no regrets but didn’t really have anything to compare it to as this is my 1st turntable since I was a teenager in the 80’s.
@Bondrkmz that's great to hear I personally want to buy one as well but I don't have the financial means as of yet so I will stick with my orbit custom :)
I'm looking for a good vintage vinyl turntable for around $300. Can't seem to any luck.
What about the tonearm?
Question: For this turntable, is there a dust cover that it comes with?
Yes. Comes with a dust cover.
Is this a wrapped or solid wood plinth? Also does it come with a dust cover?
It’s solid wood and it has a dust cover
What's the fascination with paying for modern belt drive when Vintage direct drive is available?
I don't know. Hype. I only ever had belt drive because I was convinced that direct drive was somehow inferior. I was told that the motor being directly under the record caused noise.
I recently bought a Technics SL Q300 for 40 dollars from a local Facebook buy. The SL Q300 is nowhere near the high end of Technics even but it is such an obvious improvement in both using and listening.
The automatic function still works even though it's around 40 years old at this point and after connecting the ground wire I get absolutely no access noise even with the amp cranked. Amazing.
Here's the other crazy part, the cart is just an AT92e and it sounds as good as any of my much more expensive setups.
I feel like such an idiot for buying into so much bullshit over the years.
How a turntable handles anti vibration is a really big thing for me. My son's Audio Technica LP120 will feedback severely when he plays at loud volumes. If he uses my Technics SL 1300, there is no feedback at all even when he is at full volume.
Your 1300 is a much better table then the LP120. The platter on an LP120 is paper thin.
Is it $1000 or $569 ? I clicked on your link and that came up
Looks interesting, but I still prefer my own SL-1200G.
note also: with no removable head shell
- the mechanical connection to the tone arm is not compromised.
- this may be the reason for the fine reproduction.
The Sansui had a removable headshell, sounded just as good to me. Just sayin'. Appreciate the comment!
Noob comment
@@PoppinWheeliez well thank you for that,... I will allow you to craft my response to it in your own mind.
@@skylabsaudio Well perhaps in this case they both sound excellent.
Yet that really is not a scientific result.
My point is that in designing anything there are trade offs that without detailed understanding and comparison may impact performance. Also clearly many tone arms sound good with removable head shells. Mine also.
What has not been demonstrated is the same Orbit tone arm with a head shell
to complete the comparison. The Orbit looks like a composite, maybe carbon fiber tone arm. Likely expensive to construct as is. Adding the mechanical features to include a head shell would increase the price and the mass.
The acoustics of a tone arm are very sensitive to the length, mass, stiffness etc of the parts. A head shell with the mass and connection hardware must influence the response at some level. Usually there is some type of o-ring or similar compliant part in the features that connect a head shell to the tone arm.
There will then be an additional flex point rite at the head shell. At what level and frequency I cannot guess. But everything matters - and yes I am also pragmatic.
If it sounds good then ok - it sounds good. The removable shells ARE convenient, of course. Convenience versus performance versus price. Every design falls somewhere in the space. But what do I know - I am just a Noob.
You lost me at "sponsored video"
$1000.00 is crazy. I will keep my Duals. With fixmydual, they will out live me. I bought my first Dual in 1980, used. For tracking many of the records back then, still sound great. Only records I have are many fifty cent records I bought to try. Then I search for replacements.
Good thing you got your Duals serviced and I agree they will last forever. Could you imagine what a Dual would cost today? It would be way way more than a grand.
@@skylabsaudio Very true. But, I could never spent $1000.00 on one today. I bought some tables after my first. Spent $20.00 for a 1226, $50.00 on a 1229, and $50.00 for a 1216. The 1216 came with a Stanton EEE cartridge, new old stock in the box Shure M91ED. Then it came some spare speaker plugs. Great buys just a sample of the tables. All serviced by Bill. I love all 10 of my tables.
I'll get hate, but I don't know why so many OEM turntable companies spec their tables with Ortofon red or blue. I think there are much better carts for the same money, or less.
Very true!
Ortofons are easy to source, have very good QA and can be obtained with volume discounts. I prefer Nagaokas, but they are harder to source.
@theageofanalog can you recommend some?
It’s pretty cool that they don’t gouge you on the price of the replacement belt. Belts are a wear item and I try not to go longer than a couple years with one. I grumble bi-annually on the cost plus shipping of an OEM or Thacker for my Thorens.
Made in USA too......bummer is no ground wire
Shouldn't be an issue with good cables and a clean power supply.
Looking at that turntable and what it looks like (don't like it)and the few cons about it, i would make a BIG U-TURN out of the store!✌️
I could find better options. JMHO!
By the way good reveiw!
How can the new plastic turntables even compare to the classic ones made 40 years ago
Solid real wood plinth, acrylic platter and magnesium tonearm. What plastic are you refering to?
Bro is stuck in the past 🤣🤣🤣
Having to adjust the belt to change to 45rpm, that's a "small thing". Including quality adjustable feet, that's a great feature, not a "small thing". There are many excellent decks that (for some reason) don't come with them. 👽✌️
3:28
Centripetal force, not centrifugal force!!!
I'm not a fan of the belt being outside of the turntable. That's a major pet peeve for me.
Isn’t there an advantage to that, though? Speed variations are amplified the smaller the center spindle, so having the entire platter be the spindle instead of a smaller sub-platter lessens the effect of those variations. It also takes less energy for the motor to turn the platter.
Belts are so lame
I got used to that in about 2 days. After 30 years of an internal belt or a direct drive you'd think that such a task would have been kinda' tough, but *nope.* I like everything else about my external belt-drive TT that it just didn't matter.
My AR XA has a belt under the table, above the deck. You switch speeds by moving the belt from one pulley level to the other. More trouble but it's so quiet vs the direct drive tables. If you don't change speeds much, it's no issue. Except for Mayne replacing a belt every 30 years!
The built in preamp adds $70. Are they afraid to post the weight(s) of their turntables? And the lack of the removable headshell is a deal breaker for me; I like the ease of swapping cartridges.
I get it. They are on the lighter side, no question. Great table though. Nothing is for everyone- thankfully.
Old Technics 1600mk2 will outlast me. Serviced had new belt & gear tonearm, lubed. My son will inherit it ,lol
The SL 1600 is a direct drive that doesn’t have a belt ;)
@@peckinpah303 no, is DD but tonearm assembly has small belt . Common after 30+ years to fatigue & should be replaced so smooth auto return. Same goes for tonearm gear cracking after 40 years. Both are easy repair as shown on CZcams channels
The $350.00 I spent on a Empire turntable in 1974 would buy me a $2,200.00 turntable today. Best investment I ever made.
Bottom line is old pioneer pl’s, micro’s blow these new Tt’s away.
How? Honestly, I'm curious.
@@skylabsaudio pll quartz lock and s shaped arms with easily removable head shells and cartridges. Solid plinths with excellent, quiet motors.
I have a 70lb vpi and it only bests my micro seiki bl/91 by a tad and it’s 43 yrs old. The build quality on those old units would equal 5k today.
I would never buy a new table unless its a Technics. I find the modern units cheesy compared to vintage tables. I am an DD, idler fan. I loathe belt driven tables. This is a welcome back to vinyl TT or a table for millenial noobs or gen Z. My daily speakers are ESS LS's and NS-690s are my Jazz specials.
All tables from the 1970 s had these features! Why do you promote such an ordinary product?!
This table is totally uninteresting!