FlipMaster 9000 Part 1: Flipping the Dots
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- čas přidán 30. 08. 2018
- I bought an ANNAX 16x30 flipdot display panel -- an electromechanical dot matrix -- on eBay. These were used in high-visibility environments, like on a bus to show the route number and on road construction signage. They're just about obsolete now.
We'll explore how it works and flip some dots. Future parts describe building an Arduino Nano- and ESP8266-based controller for it, writing some software, and playing a game on it.
Special thanks to John Barber for finding the eBay seller and letting me borrow his panel; and to Brian Adams for helping with proof-of-concept and general encouragement.
The KiCad design and Arduino code is on GitHub at github.com/CarlRaymond/AnnaxF... - Věda a technologie
This device makes the best sound of any electronic device ever.
Imagine whole train station full of the screens.
@@1marcelfilms I thought almost every train station has similar displays like these.
@@SkrovnoCZ Flip dot is something different than split flap. Although they look very similar
@@Lucas_van_Hout true but buses and trams still use them. At least here.
Dakka dakka dakka
Omg finally someone that actually explains how these work and explains how the controller is built, thank you for that
You know what you must do next....
Now you have to play DOOM on it.
and "bad apple"
@@fl233d0m done already
@@corkie679 wow. just watched the bad apple one. was nice.
i dont mean to be so off topic but does any of you know of a way to get back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot the account password. I love any help you can offer me
@Finnley Elijah Instablaster :)
That is so cool. A mall nearby called The Hub had a huge sign made of something very similar to these, if you were within 50' of it you could hear the clicking of hundreds of them flipping about every 15 seconds. I don't know how old it was but there were always a bunch stuck on green or black and in the 00s they replaced it with a boring LED dot matrix board. That had a similar problem with bulbs stuck on or off so it only lasted a few years before being removed too, now the whole sign is gone to make way for a roundabout.
There's an effect in the main menu for _Portal 2_ that is directly inspired by this device. Very cool.
You mean the transition between menus and scenes?
This is really cool. My Dad used to install and service these, later sell them, for stock exchanges, road signs and some similar functions.
Used to love programming / flipping through destinations on the buses with these here in the UK
Just scores some similar boards on ebay, thanks for walking through how the H/L lines work and all the diode setup. I was struggling to reverse the wiring.
this is absolutely majestic! you just got a new sub!
Very cool to see these again.
I used something similar, except they were flip seven-segment sections, easy to control. I used the for Kansan and manufacturing displays to show the whole mfg floor the throughput at each station. As I recall, I bought them from a roadside sign company (for roadwork ahead signage). If I think of the company, I’ll edit this comment.
Those Annax BiLED panels were in use in new vehicles for quite some time. The last trams with them were delivered here in 2016.
That's so cool, thanks for explaining!
They replaced the flip dot displays on buses with LED signs and they're not as easy to see in bright sunlight
I remember seeing these at the airport. They were so cool.
Pixel width limitations were generally based on size limitations of the transit vehicle in question.
The flipdot I got was 75 pixels wide.
I'm pretty sure that BUSE still makes those. A lot of depots still use them, too.
For flip sake! I always wanted to know how these worked. The problem is my interest was always on / off / on / off ... but cheers for explaining :)
Besides buses and trains I mostly remember these displays from old episodes of game shows like Family Feud.
I've never even seen one, amazing!
I've seen these on the route display on one of my city's buses. They normally have led matrix display.
In İzmir Turkey, some metro stations still has flip displays that shows minutes to arrival. I sometimes wait and try to see the flipping motion but its incredibely fast.
I had to subscribe after I saw the intro, this is going to be interesting
every part of this project from the kicad design and the electromechanical display is so cool. well everything besides how much these displays cost lol.
That's so cool, reminds me a lot of how DLP projectors work, just much bigger.
It would be interesting to replace the yellow surfaces with mirrors and cast the flip dot image onto the side of a large building or onto a cloud or something.
That explains why you can't energize the entire matrix at once to form an image quickly. You would need individually addressable dots, like active matrix panels. You could design a board like that.
We have these on some light rail trains here. The LEDs are in fact on and you can see them when the train goes into a tunnel at which point you can't see the yellow of the flip mechanism. They are very readable in direct sunlight as well as in complete darkness thanks to the LEDs. As these trains are not that old these mechanisms are still available. Newer trains have all LED and that is because the new generation is readable in direct sunlight.
Reminds me of the Wood Mirror... that I saw at Siggraph.
People are absolutely still making these and they're still in use many places around the world.
i need this.....so satisfying
These things are still used on busses as they can be seen in full sunlight. The integrated led lighting lets them be seen at night.
Id love to see one of those to display games from a gameboy Pocket.
I'd *love* to have one of these!
I'd be tempted to buy a car and slap one on the roof with it saying "THE P.M. IS A WANKER!" on it.
V cool same thing they used to use at train stations etc 😁
Smallest font I know of is 4*6 pixels per letter (3*5 plus one row and one col for inter-letter space). If we wanted to put a unix terminal on this, id shoot for 80 cols and 24 rows. This measn we need 320*144 pixels, or 11*9 of these boards, aka 99 of these guys + supporting hardware in order to make a funtional computer terminal... might have to scale back to 40*24, needing 54 of these boards.
Would be cool if on the flaps, all the yellow sides was _glow-in-the-dark,_ so the LEDs would recharge it when closed.
In the late 2000"s (around 2006-2010), Annax still supplied this kind of flip-dot display with LED (that LED greatly enhanced the visibility at night, which previously needef to light up the display with fluorescent tubes). It's only in the 2010 decade that the amber LED display became mature enough to be seen in direct sunlight and not break down all the time because of the heat (due to greenhouse effect, among others).
Great video! What seller did you get it from?
Wow........ That is sooooooo cooool..😲😲😲😲
I think it needs to be insde a glass casing if it is to be used outside.
Just curious…
I saw those on buses…
But how the hell do they block sounds…
Before using LCD displays / LECIP
When you de energize a relay, there can be considerable back emf as the field collapses. What about this thing? Have you scoped these coils to see what the back emf is?
use a flyback diode to fix this.
Noticed you had a few dead pixels at the end. Are they replaceable?
Is this using 5 pin connectors on the PCB?
Obsolete, maybe, but still LEGENDARY!!!
Perfect for a game of Snake
Would it be possible to read the value of pixel? Hmm I doubt it but you if you could you could make some really funky memory using it.
These used to be the freeway signs in California granted there'd be multiples of these boards in one array most of them have been switched out to the new LED systems
this but way bigger would be the perfect display for a game of life
The inner workings of the Family Feud "Fast Money" board of the Dawson and Combs eras. (Even though it was a Packard-Ferrati product.)
was thinking the same thing.
That’s nice but can it run doom or bad apple
What could happen if you touch the dots while they are flipping?
I’ve been looking for a small flip dot sign, does anyone know any source’s of one that I may be able to get my hands on?
We need to port WLED over to this 😊
now I understand how a CPU works cheers thumbs up from me
Wrong video. you want the ben eater one for the cpus.
nice project，where to buy flip dots
I've seen these displays used in Siemens Combino trams. They're not bad!
Who were Annax merged from?
Seems it wasn't a merger, but that they got spun off from Bosch in 96: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annax
@@bragr_ they merged with BROSE which used to be a big supplier of this kind of mass transit destination displays
@ they may have merged with some other companies along the way, but the company and the name originate from a management buyout of the Bosch display division, rather than arising from a merger as stated in the video according to an archived information page on their site: web.archive.org/web/20080318145841/www.annax.de/content/view/31/66/
0:18 it does make good rhythm. It could make riff of an intro.
@MichaelKingsfordGray this name is from 2009 and I was 14. I already use it like almost my social media that would make for my friends to recognise me.
Plus, I'm not English native speaker, all the English pronunciation are spelled kinda like this in my country.
where i can buy this dots
This kind gives a rough idea on how the Fast Money and the Bullseye/Bankroll banks were used on Family Feud from 1976 to 1995.
be perfect for some floppotron style music...
I want one so bad but they‘re hard to come by. I wouldn‘t say they‘re obsolete. They have great performance in daylight and use zero power while static
When he said "one side yellow", i understood he's color blind
that is cool
Question: If there were LED’s in the panel, why was it not simply a dot matrix LED? Why go thru this trouble? Daylight perhaps?
The LEDs were there so the display was visible at night.
Flipmaster 9000 sounds like a Product from „Tool Time“ featurering Tim Allen.
Is it yellow?
Man, I want one of these so badly, flip dot displays are so awesome, and I've never seen one IRL as far as I can remember. They seem pretty expensive on ebay though, damn.
This one is also nicer than the ones which aren't in the UK and thus cost the same in shipping as the display itself, damn.
Guys from NY made this boards as expensive adverticements or another info displays
❤️
You have to make a snake game with this
A bit late to request, but you gotta play "Bad Apple" in this thing
How do you control it..
From computer?
There is a software for draw or write on it..?
Watch Part 2. There's an Arduino controller.
@@The-jr6pi thanks..!
i want a wall of these
the sound it the best
The LEDs are used as suplemental ligth under low ligth conditions
Where would a third panel's row connector go?
The row ribbon cable would have an additional connector in the middle. The panels would be wired pin 1 to pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2 to pin 2, and so forth.
cool
"Nobody's making them anymore..."
Actually, some people are! I can't remember, but there are a couple companies that build public displays!
do you sell it¿
I want to play Tetris on one of these displays.
Anyone thinking of that one Bad Apple video?
where to buy lol?!!
Супер!
Can it run doom?
How can I purchase this? :)
I have one of this flip dot :-)
Ebay
4:40 I'm still unclear why the diodes need to be there - you say without them there'd be a path for the current to flow through every other coil as well, but if all the other rows/columns aren't connected apart from the ones you want to energise that wouldn't matter as no current would flow anyway. What am I missing? I guess if you are switching the inputs between positive and negative rather than connecting or disconnecting them then it might be required though to avoid short circuits.
Don't forget the coils are just wire, and current will flow through them in either direction. Without diodes, you end up energizing all the coils.
@@The-jr6pi But not if you only power one row and one column at a time right? I saw in your later parts you were doing whole columns at a time so that makes a bit more sense, I was wondering why you'd need it only doing one row/column at a time as there wouldn't be any path to energise the other coils then! But it is definitely more efficient doing whole rows or columns at a time so I see why now.
@@Berkeloid0 Let me make an exempel for this we will say we have a regular Matrix with single Columns and Rows. We put a + on Column 1 and a - on Row 1. This will energize the coil leading from C1 to R1. But it will also energize the coil leading from C1 to R2 via the coil leading from R2 to C2 and via the coil leading from C2 to R1. Its just that instead of just one Coil it now takes three coils for the way and one of them ist energized in the other direction than the other two. And this would happen accross the entire board.
@@ssingfo Yes but if you don't have R2 or C2 connected to anything (e.g. high impedance state) the coils there won't be energized because there is nowhere for the current to flow. If you only have + on C1 and - on R1 then where is the completed circuit that passes from + through R2 or C2 to -?
@@Berkeloid0 But that's exactly what I said, it does flow via the coil in the middle, the current can flow from C1 to R2 then to C2 and from C2 to R1. Here's a link to a small schematic were I've drew in the flow of the current over the coils: drive.google.com/file/d/1c9ThtQLGYkFrb-foz4c7NXae6bmhiLV9/view?usp=sharing
If buses with these displays were shut down while the display was being changed, it left the display half changed🙂 New buses with LED displays just go blank when they're shut down.
It could be used as non volatile memory
Bro used IDE connectors
now play bad apple on it
can you play doom on it
i want to feed rgb at 800 x 600 to it to play doom
avo ca dos from mexico
Make a 360 display with this and you're getting earape and seizures Machine
Make a Pong Game or Tetris
The downside of this video is that the prices on these are now INSANELY high on eBay.
0:03
I see why you go it on eBay... your display has some dead pixels.
make pong or snake with it
Damn why is it so noisy
I guess you can call that the first generation flat screens. Modern OLED flat screens can hold about 100 time more pixels.
Yellow? Homie that's green. That's not even highlighter yellow, its just green lmao. Maybe its the camera