QUIT Ubiquiti?! These WAPs are EnGenius! - Part 2
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2020
- + EnGenius Poe++ ECS2512FP Switch - www.amazon.com/dp/B088YLPML7/?...
+ EnGenius Poe+ ECS1112FP Switch - www.amazon.com/dp/B08CS16GR2/?...
+ EnGenius ECW230 Access Point - www.amazon.com/dp/B08CS4HNJ2/?...
+ EnGenius EAP1300 Access Point - www.amazon.com/dp/B072N8ZNR6/?...
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Intro and Outro Music By: Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b... - Věda a technologie
Wendell:
I've been a little forlorn with Ubiquiti stuff lately (especially for high-end home/soho stuff) so I thought I'd get EnGenius a try. They're Senao hardware with EnGenius special sauce and branding. I am very impressed with the hardware, so far, but the software has a bit to go. Full review of the ECW120, ECW240 and PoE+ switch ECS1112FP and PoE++ switch ECS2512FP coming soon.
Hello everyone! This is part 2 of the POE video we did recently.
It goes through installation, known bugs, and tips.
Let me know your thoughts :) ~Editor Amber
I use Fritz!Box 7590, 2 FritzWLAN 1750 repaters, and one 3000 Repeater in Mesh, and i have no issues covering my house (basement, ground floor, and first floor. Each floor, including the basement is approx 95 square meter. I bundle the 2.4Ghz, and 5 Ghz in one SSID, and the devices figure out whether to use either one, often going to 2.4 Ghz when you move out of reach of 5 Ghz. I have approx. a little over 900-950 square meter property where my house stands. I have no issues getting WiFi coverage in my garden. On average my Wifi has 500-600 Mbit/s which is 5x times my internet connection (100Mbit/s Fiber). Handover between the devices is as far as I can tell pretty seamless.
When did you get a Nessy shirt?
Forgot to turn on the aircon?
cloud based????? why not look at say netgear insight as well? they have competitevley price switches and APs. hell netgears has switches HALF the cost of ubiq when looking at PoE+ AND 10G uplinks! hell TP link has STRAIGHT clone Unifi with decent prices! grant it i buy all my unifi used for decent prices if i i hunt. D link, netgear and tp link units have been running fine for me. no heavy use on their management though.
THIS IS WHY I SUBSCRIBE!!!!
Am I the only person who DOESN'T want my LAN to be cloud controlled? The only time I want my WAP going online is for firmware updates.
I don't even want it pulling the update. You're local controller should push to APs, the APs themselves should never phone home
Same here. Really not happy with the direction of this stuff. UniFi is borderline, but at least you can have a controller on-prem (for now, at least). But, stuff like EnGenius, Meraki, Verkada (cameras, but, same thing)... All MUST phone home and get nerfed or lose all functionality if they lose connection with the mother ship. Gross.
They do seem to have an on-prem managed version, EnSky Pro, with a VM or hardware device to manage them. It'd be interesting to know how stand-alone it is.
@@alangarde2928 dang it. I missed that during my initial poke around their website.
No your def. not the only one - I don't either. I'm a firm believer that certain things don't belong on a remote cloud (esp. networking configuration information) - it's asking for too much trouble.
The very reason I do like Ubiquiti is because I can run the controller in my own network and it can enroll new APs without any internet. I wouldn't want my APs internet controlled!
WAP has been ruined for me.
They had to drown so many poor kittens to do so...
I wouldn't have know what you meant before yesterday. 3 minutes of my life wasted.
@@pkt1213 I’m sorry for your eyes and ears
i still have a mop and bucket ready
@@pkt1213 It wasn't yesterday for me, but same.
I think its funny I just replaced my EnGenius with Ubiquity because EnGenius was giving me to many issues....lol
Ubiquiti has been perfect for me. Never had any issues. Just a couple times AC Pro needed a restart and that's it.
got lots of trouble on new products of ubiquiti. Quality is not as good as it was in early years. EnGenius cloud solution just blows my mind after 6 months of adoption
@@levielbers8585 Me too and I only have an AP point and a UDM and I've ditched it to go back to my Google WiFi! But I only use it at home.
I understand Wendell's points but EnGenious has some deal breakers for me:
1 - Cloud register per AP - This is nothing eco friendly, only generates e-wate, destroys the second hand market and resell value. I like to keep an ap for 2-3 years and upgrade it.
2 - WTF you cant stop the device to keep trying to update? In unifi, if a update doesn't work, you can always 'dont try again', and if the current firmware is unstable, just roll back!
3 - Beta channel by default is not acceptable for a production env.
4 - If isn't broken, dont upgrade the firmware, unless is stable LTS or you dont care about you can risk your network stability atm.
The controller update that Ubiquiti pushed a month ago was BETA, not RC or Stable, anyone who upgrades to this versions could expect ir.
I'm not a Ubiquiti defender, I have problems with the lack of focus and some broken products as well but they grew kinda too fast and started trying too many things. The current stuff in EA I find interesting to look forward.
Rollback isnt that uncomplicated and i didnt realize that update was beta... Now im suffering from disconnects with my ac ap pros
@@jpw5996 You can roll back. The cloud situation with this really turns me off though. Unifi isn't great, but as long as you stick to stable updates of their APs you are fine. I'm still looking at a unifi pow switch because I'll never light up more than 3 or 4 poe devices.
@@Geopirate3 The switches and APs are really solid, Routers I dont like and neither use it. But with just aps and switches you can manage your network really well through the controller.
@Brad Smith For my application, the USG-PRO-4 works fine & will continue to be my router until I put more time into learning pfSense. I like how solid the Unifi switches & APs are built, but I'm not a fan of being used as a beta tester, so I update LTS firmware when I need to & I won't ever buy Ubiquiti equipment as they drop. The Dream Machine Pro is one of a few examples of why. I'll look into EnGenius, but not totally sold yet.
@@Gaming_Biker I bought a unifi router once... Didn't offer a simple way to clone the Mac address for a cable modem and sent it right back... Pfsense for the last few years no regrets
Disillusioned, not disenfranchised. Love the content!
Or disenchanted, perhaps?
Calling home? No thanks.
Agree
Can I host my own controller with EnGenius? I'd rather not depend on the manufacturer's cloud services for my equipment. At least with a controller I host, I can control what versions I'm running on all the equipment. Because of that, I wasn't affected by Ubiquiti's recent mistake that was the version 6 release. My controllers are still on version 5.
I've got ubiquiti ac pro and ac lr in my house (with the ac lr-6 on the way) and have no complaints.
I love the design on your shirt. Its very subtle and low key.
Unless it's sweat.
13:25
We're reaching Steve Ballmer levels! Get this man a towel!
Nice. Can't wait for the next part.
Funny that you make this I actually just upgraded my home to a pair of EnGenius EWS357AP a week ago. I went with the on prem APs with their ezMaster controller since I am highly skeptical of cloud solutions but they have been reliable with good performance so far. Nice to see them get some attention.
Lmao we all know Wendell is a master of WAPs
Get a bucket and a mop.....
"the future of ... stuff" Wendell is such a poet!
amazing! make more of these! is there any open source software APs and switches?
Currently learning about CCNA WiFi networking and RADUS server at TAFE
This just made my day :D
I use ruckus APs and switches at home. Lath and plaster home as well, a single R730 gets coverage everywhere. Their antennas are amazing.
Their unleashed product is great even for medium sized businesses. I deploy them all over.
Also not happy with ubiquity at the moment, we are trying out fortinet aps recently, time will tell if they are good.
Fantastic video!
Do you have any experience with Aruba / HP networking gear? I've seen that they got a lot of different hardware for sale and a lot of it seems quite affordable, but its equally confusing.
"cloud managed" is a guarantee that the device will be dead at some point. and standalone devices live faaaar past their eol dates.
Solid info. I'm still holding off upgrading my APs till wifi6 becomes more standard on end devices.
I’ve been seeing too much politics lately. I first read that as Wife 6!
@@colinpye1430 hey leave Melania out of this! .... okay okay I’ll see myself out 😂
This video came at just the right time, as I've been shopping around for a Ubiquiti/Unify system lately to improve my household wifi. Very useful information, and gives me a better idea of alternatives 👍
Go with Ubiquity. I've installed both Ubiquity and EnGenius in multiple locations for clients and also manage the networks for them. As far as Wifi hand off and coverage I'm calling BS on that. The difference is that you have more configuration options and features for Ubiquity compared to EnGenius. Yeah you just plug and play Ubiquity but to get an optimal experience with multiple access points you have to tune it. I have all Ubiquity in my house now. I've had EnGenius and SonicWall Firewall along with their access points previously.
Dude...thank you for this episode. About 5 years ago a network buddy and I worked together on doing a couple of small office upgrades on switches and wireless. He recommended the Engenius AP and I have used them exclusively since. I have done a 2.5 acre compound with solid concrete walls with a main house/basement and a huge dance hall and used all the Engenius AP and it has worked very well. I have other who swear by Ubiquiti but all I hear is complaints from the users (yes it could be the installation that is causing problems). Again thanks for doing this video. I like Engenius products and I am getting ready to redo my house with POE, Cameras and AP....
One last thing. Glad to hear someone else say that they want a faster backbone than what most people put in. They don't realize how nice it is to transfer files between systems at higher speeds. I even looked for switches that had a huge backbone speed between ports so I could transfer files between devices on the same switch without bogging it down.
I’ve been rocking my ubiquiti AP and security gateway for almost two years, zero issues. Rock solid!
Level1Techs 2020: Cloud-crippled network equipment
TekSyndicate 2020 (in alternate universe): build your own x86 Linux Access Point using spare hardware and HostAPd
What the heck, Wendell?
on point
Wendell: "Cisco, I mean, they know what they are doing..."
Me 3/4 of the way through a Cisco bridge call when the network engineer states, "It's the end of my shift and I will be passing you to an overseas support center": Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
did you at least get to hear Opus Number 1 during the transfer?
@@MikeDawson1 - It's the tech version of being Rick Rolled!
That statement confuses me, too. I mean it feels like not a single week goes by without yet another hard coded Cisco password or some other vulnerability. I seriously doubt that they know what they're doing.
Keep thee great videos coming
So engenius hosts the api gateway and gets your utilization info? No to keen on that... Can you host the gateway yourself?
And?
@@jay-uo2bi What do you mean "And"?
The alternative to their API is their EzMaster controller software or their cloud key solution
@@ADKAdminreally!? is it like unifi or tp link omada?
2020, the year that redefined WAP.
Im buying these. I have had some issues in my house with Ubiquiti and have been looking for a change.
@Level1Techs OMG haven't seen NES skin for dell yet!!! Amazing! dbrand or custom? Great video btw, great job, as always! ,)
I appreciate the PTZ pan edit when Wendell mentioned the Security cam. Haha
Just found your channel, thanks! We’re an MSP that has used Meraki exclusively up to this point. I’m curious about 2 things with enGenius:
1. Do you worry at all about their business model if they’re not charging any sort of ongoing subscription?
2. Have you had any experience with enGenius firewalls? Do they even make them?
I’m currently testing Zyxel Nebula. They offer a full stack (firewall, switches, APs). Really trying to get the Meraki-like consistency and simplicity in the cloud dashboard of a lower priced product line.
We need this type of videos to continue, like a series testing network gear, specially Access Points with mesh and handouts.
I like Ubiquiti a lot, but i also think they are sleeping in their laurels, while others might be getting better. Try to ask for samples of the following
- TP-Link Deco X90 (or X60)
- Aruba AP-515
- ASUS - ZenWiFi AX
- Cisco Catalyst 9115AXI-B
- NETGEAR Orbi Whole Home Tri-Band Mesh WiFi 6 System
I recently moved a client from older EnGenius APs to Ubiquiti. The VLAN tagging for guest wifi networks seemed to be much easier to implement for Ubiquiti as when I tired to implement it on the older Engenius models it would not tag correctly. It could just be a difference in generations though as the EnGenius AP's were 5+ years old. I'll have to keep an eye on it for the future. Thanks Wendell!
Is there a chance future videos will provide more elementary/entry-level options switches?
I also wanted to ask why you didn't add a little bit of details about the switch itself. Unless mistaken aren't these multi-layer switches?
I'm running 2 Unifi AP-AC-Lites on running along the spine of the house and they've been working well for me so far.
I've managed to avoid too many software issues by lagging on my upgrades :P But if the EnGenius software is better I'm curious because the Unifi Controller software is pretty good already.
Is the EAP1300 comparable or a straight upgrade because I think it's around the same price bracket as what I paid for my WAPs awhile back.
I own no ubiquity gear but all of my encounters with ubiquity gear has been failures. It's nice to know of other good options out there
Hey Wendell, you mentioned Ruckus in this video which I am curious about, how would you say their system handles compared to Ubiquiti and EnGenius?
I tried an Engenius AP at home back around 2012 and had nothing but problems. Had to reboot it at least once a week, but 8 years is at least 2 eternities in IT, so I'd be willing to try them again if they don't force you to use their cloud.
Ruckus Unleashed is showing a lot of potential especially with the switch management that they've added to it.
Good for you on moving out of ui eco system. I too have been burned by ui with ckg2+ battery swelling and hw revision changes. Though hardware revision changes was my fault because of impatience.
It doesn't seem like there's a lot of info around Mikrotik. Have you considered doing a series on them, or comparing their capabilities to other brands?
yes, Mikrotik while not so user-friendly in the beginning and has some steep learning curve, is actually one of those best bang for the buck products, be it for home, Soho, or mid-size company network product. I hated learning everything I needed to set up the everything i wanted out of it, but once you do, you never look back, especially if you want a rock-solid product with enterprise features that usually cost arm and a leg as Wendell pointed out *cough Cisco cough*
@@oldschool1079 Lol midsize company, you must be thinking about rather small scale. Mikrotik is budget product, just like Ubiquiti.
+1 for Mikrotik
- 1 for Mikrotik I only had bad experiences with them.
@@emeraldbonsai The Mikrotik switches with SwOS really have some problems with STP/VLAN usw and the bug are not fixed for years. Out of the 10 routers I used 3 of them were crashing without any reason after a week.
Ruckus unleashed might be a good option to try as well, as it doesn't have a cloud dependency AFAIK.
What about the "on-premise" access points and not their cloud managed?
@aussiebear22 looks like a cloudkey. The question is, how far can it scale?
I was gonna ask you about cisco Meraki when you mentioned it.
Are you gonna make a video on it?
would you be willing to do a router overview as well?
Love the NES laptop skin!
Maybe take a look at the Aruba instant on line of APs next
Ubiquiti is fantastic. Can really recommend it!
@Wendell: Just wondering, what kind of controller do you use? I've eliminated my UCK and switched to a docker container running on a mini server/NUC, and it's much more responsive.
I've always just used a Debian container with the repo added. Never really got excited by the cloud key idea.
@@tin2001 it’s called cloud, but you can keep it all local though. Also, it mitigates the roaming and personally i love the centralized configuration. Also, for those prices & support, I wouldn’t call them home-tier gear. All the meshed stuff basically is though. Still have the old UCK laying around, but since I have a NUC running it has the compute power of at least 10 rbp’s... together with Docker... Great stuff 🙂
@Level1Techs
Is there going to be a follow-up video about Wi-Fi 6 APs from EnGenius?
I was wondering why they discontinued the square APs glad you mentioned it
i'm still running two square UniFi APs complete with brown discoloured plastic from heat - i thought i was the only one 🤭
Man our Ubiquity system just randomly started dropping its access points from the mesh, no change on our end, save for the firmware update. So frustrating.
Extreme/Aerohive has been pretty decent for me. Only wish that local management was more robust, but the cloud management is pretty strong.
As someone that uses both professionally, I have to say there's no competition. Ubiquiti does everything better and lasts longer. Engenius WAPs last a year, if that.
engenius waps I have installed all have lasted years. Hell I got 2 at hope that are 6 years old and still trucking along. But yes you will run into the odd lemon.
Umm no. And lots of buggy issues with ubi
I have some speed/connection issues with my Ubiquiti AP in the house. My outdoor one works great. My Router in the main house is just the ER-X while I have an EdgeSwitch 8-150 in the GarOffice for my Outdoor POE powered AP and all my devices in there.(couple printers, couple computers, Streaming boxes, etc.). After watching this I am tempted to stay on the UI Router and Switch and get the EnGenius AP for the house to test it out.
Love the cacodemon in the back
I cant stand having cloud management, then thy go away or thy charge for cloud management you have a brick. I been looking at Ruckus Unleashed gear
I early in the year tried to find engenius hardware in Australia and came up short, so I wonder also how they would handle the cloud management for seemingly unintended markets
Can you do a latency comparison test as well? I’m curious on how they compare.
How's the spacing with the EnGenius WAPs for the ethernet cable?
I initially ran some for my Unifi WAPs but with how the mount works and how tiny the gap is it ended up breaking the wires in my thick Cat6a. I ended up having to install an jack in the attic and run a thinner prefab 6a that could bend more easily to the WAPs
I love the networking stuff
Cisco does provide innovation in wireless products with location services. These cheaper suppliers don’t offer these extended services - especially where location services is important.
Great video! Was wondering if we would see some EnGenius content - I've been running 2x ews377ap at home for a year now, which is their 4x4 WIFI 6 AP, but non-cloud managed (same hardware as the one in the video, but can be accessed directly by the device IP). Been great so far, only issues i've had is a laptop with a Intel WIFI 5 card being unable to work on the network with 802.11AX mode enabled (needed a NIC driver update), handover problems with another WIFI 5 EnGenius AP (It was flakey and would often grab devices from the more powerful APs causing drops in connection - so I put it as a standalone with it's own SSID). I can get 850 Mbps real life download speeds within the same room on the AP with a S10e which is a 2x2 WIFI 6 device - goes down to around 620 Mbps the next room over. Also noticed a strange bug where if the broadcast power is too strong, maximum speeds go down (850 Mbps to ~600) - this is with no overlapping channels between APs and in a very non-dense environment.
That’s some wireless access points.
Wendell they did kind of did give a drilling template in octagon box ring. you just use the holes in it for a template.
Damn it, I literally JUST got home with a udm Pro and a bunch of ap's hah
get pfSense
So if their cloud service is completely down, you can still manage locally with CLI and WebGUI. Would you consider the product under these conditions only?
Would love to see Ruckus WAP's thrown into this comparison as well. Been very happy with mine personally.
1. Put the plate on the box
2. Acquire marker
3. Uncap said marker
4. Place marker point in plate holes
5. Remove plate from box
6. Cap marker
7. Poke out marker points with pen
Template done
Unifi doesn't manage client handoff between APs; all roaming decisions are made by the client device. The Unifi APs also don't do active RF monitoring and just select a free channel on startup. Enterprise APs like my Aruba IAP-325s at the office have both of those features. But they also cost 8x more than a Unifi AP. A newer laptop with a decent (aka Intel) AC/AX WiFi card will roam just fine on Unifi but old/crappy WiFi devices may have trouble.
Dude I think you need better aircon? (or wear white / very dark shirts, they don't show sweat).
Love the channel...
Speaking to your point on the switch rebooting during firmware upgrades - does that actually kill the PoE layer? I know my Ubiquiti switches leave PoE up while rebooting for firmware updates. So the APs will lose connectivity, but not power, so if they're in the middle of installing an already-downloaded firmware, no worries.
Multi part video, okay. Different names for the parts and no links to the others? Bad puppy!
I have a full unifi stack and have had no problems but I do not like the cloud connection they are going to, I have a udm pro and I was very let down with the cloud part, I'm looking I to mikrotik for a revamp of my setup, glad I did not already start upgrading to the new line of unifi switches
Small quick tip on terminating RJ45 for everyone. Pull the TP's out slightly out so that when you correct for length and push the plug on, the jacket slides neatly inside and gets locked at the back of the plug. Easy and makes it want to twist and kink less with the added rigidity from the jacket.
I'm new to Level1Techs videos but is it normal for there to not be links to the products he talks about? Affiliate or not, doesn't bother me but I hate relying on Google to hopefully find the product Wendell is talking about. Just my 2 cents. :)
I put the Amazon EnGenius links in the description :) ~ Editor Amber
@@Level1Techs Thank you! I'm glad you did because the one I was looking at ended up being the wrong version (thanks Google!). :D
You're welcome. I was in the process when I saw your comment :P
Question, did you test mu mimo or have it enabled in these APs? Does it help with wave 2 ac and lots of random devices, phones, TVs, stream boxes, Apple stuff, etc??
Ubiquiti for sure slept on their own success for awhile. USG is one of such products that should get an upgrade unless you run it with less then 100 Mb uplink.
An upgrade to the USG is currently in the works it’s called UXG Pro and in early access
Still hoping to see coverage of the Mikrotik SFP+ switches at some point! 4 10gig ports for just over 100$ is nut's!
can you do a review / test if the newer Extreme Access Points, in particular the Extreme AP 305C , they recently purchased AeroHive and I am interested in your thoughts.
everybody should hire Wendell as the consultant because they need that *What are you doing* guy from making crap products. Great video as always. Give us moar of this stuff.
That ap is phisically identical to the Watchguard ones!
I’m looking at setting up WiFi 6 at home - I have a home office and want both indoor mesh (2 or 3 if one goes in the basement), and at least one for the backyard (could also add one to cover the property/out front, but this is not critical).. so I want a pretty small setup here. Is there any guidance for what gear to get/how to provision the setup or am I basically on my own?
I like my Unifi gear. I have a HD Nano + ER-X + Rpi w/ mgmt server on it.
Only moderate complaint is wanting 2.5GbE backbone for local backups. Literally nothing from Unifi is 2.5 GbE+PoE. And 10GbE is $40+/port.
For a small time homelabber I might go with the QNAP unmanaged switch (QNAP QSW-1105-5T) to fix that. If I was doing it all over again I'd totally look at EnGenius.
Can you combine engenius + ubiquiti products with OpenWRT, avoid the condescending configuration software and also have better handoff?
I know this video is mainly about APs, but how is EnGenius' deep packet inspection? I'm running a Ubiquiti network at home and am happy with everything except the DPI.
Won't go through lathe & plaster?
Thats why I bought my first engenius radios back about 10 years ago.
I had a site where an additional building was added, and we needed connectivity.
A VPN meant going through Comcast limited upload.
Dsl was the only other option.
Couldn't put an antenna on the roof.
Couldn't trench.
No Los through building windows.
Ended up getting a pair of 1000mw ap's in bridge mode with sector antennas.
Shot bridge link out the window of one building through a brick wall into the other.
Got about 48mbit across the link on 802.11g.
What was the problem that SFP modules solved (that couldn't be solved with lower cost options) other than a way to nickel and dime people by making them pay for extra adapters?
Did we ever get the speed test follow up? I can't seem to find one.
They also have on-premise versions.
As a networking professional. I have removed alot!!! Of those junk enguinus ap's and installed Unifi. No roaming issues, no random drops.
What equipment would be your recommendation for bridging 600Mbps over 1 mile with few tree tops in the middle of the path? Thanks
Theres some ports in the studio. Theres some ports in the studio. Thats some wet ass protocols you got there
Printing a mounting template... even DrayTek does that!
9:08 confused me a bit. You said 2.5Gbit uplink while your mouse pointers are pointing to the 2.4GHz and 5GHz frequency indicators on the AP. Does the AP actually have a link indicator to show 1Gbit/2.5Gbit links?
You know what you did with that title Wendell
That’s what made me come watch immediately.
He's gonna get so much unintentional traffic lmao
We deploy Ubiquiti AC Pro's in office and warehouse environments. Note I stated industrial warehouse environments where it's hot, cold, and dusty. We have zero problems with the gear performance is great.
Dude I think you need better aircon? (or wear white / very dark shirts, they don't show sweat - been there myself bro).
Love the channel...
It's called a sight gag...