How to Get a Great Hamon
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2022
- I show you my process of how to get a really great hamon on a W2 blade. I explain the whole process from steel choice, to the quench, to finishing. This process works really well for me.
Buffer:
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Buffing Wheel:
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Green Compound:
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Steel Wool:
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Ferric Chloride:
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Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Always my pleasure. Thank you!
Thanks for this very informative video. I'll be doing my first hamon soon, and I really learned a lot from.
That’s awesome! I’m glad I could help.
been hoping for you to do one of these. Always great info!
Always appreciated! I was hoping this one was useful.
Love the contrast in those. Nice work!
Much appreciated, Paul. Thank you!
Thank you it was a pleasure to watch 😊
I appreciate that. I’m glad you enjoyed it. Thanks a bunch!
Excellent, some new to me info there, been playing with getting a hamon, mixed results so far so some things to try there, appreciate the lessons
Always my pleasure. Thanks, Andy!
Thank you for breaking down!
You’re very welcome. Thank you!!
Super helpful! Thank you!
Great to hear! My pleasure…thank you!
Thanks man....appreciate it!
Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you!
Great job nice tips sr thanks
Thank you! It’s my pleasure.
Thank you so so much for this informational video!!
My pleasure! I hope it helps.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks I'm not started but am planning to give it a try in the future ;) Videos like these really help a lot! Do you share these templates? And also; do you electrolate your logo into the knife, or is this done with a stamp?
Let me know how it goes when you try it. When I do a brut de forge blade, I stamp my logo. When I do a blades like these, I electro etch my logo.
awesome video i love how you explain everything in detail for a new maker like me it sure is very helpfull appreciate it also any chance you would ever do a hunting knife with a gut hook tutorial ? great stuff have a good 1 Mark :)
Hey. I sure appreciate it. I'm trying to help the best I can. I've actually never done a gut hook, but I know how to make them. I'll add this idea to the list. Thank you!
OK almost finished, just need to buff off the oxide lair left form the initial etching and I LOVE THIS!!! I made the hamon pop. I had an already 800 the abitilty to see myself in the blade already at 800 grit(i am not bragging I am a little too obsessed with a perfect polish)...I got a perfect mirror polish in it... however, i am going to leave it dulled with just the steel wool buff as the final finish as i like the darker color, and will be experimenting in the future to see if i can replicate the mirror but keep the darker color. I may have to get a buffer.
Sounds like it’s a keeper 😁
1075 works good, 26C3 and Hitachi Blue (Japanese blue cutlery steel from pops knife supply) works really well for hamon.
Thanks for the info. Me personally, I typically stick with W2 when going for a hamon.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks (sorry this is rambly as I love talking about doing hamon) true and W2 and it is easier to get for stock removal and stuff, however, I don't have a kiln and am not sure if my shop can run one right now(its a 100-year-old garage) so I can't soak so w2 is not a good steel for me...and i just like trying other kinds of steel when i am forging.
Side note: Also, a good way to tell when the knife is done with the quench is to just wait for the media to stop boiling. i keep an old knife I made as a test piece for the ABS Journeyments Smith test a few years ago that I did a bend test on and use that to scrap the clay. It's faster than a towel.
Side Note 2: I actually dont bother to agitate a blade as I have cracked them in Parks 50 going for a hamon, and I have heard from a video from UK Bladeshow you dont have to agitate with Parks 50. and i am getting a scratch test hardness on 1075 and ford truck leaf spring of 65ish after hardening and about what I shoot for between 62 and 55 HRC depending on my HRC what my files are rated.
Keep up the great work, and thanks for putting up with my rambling.
That’s all some good info.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks thank you😊
First of all thanks for sharing. As you mentioned every knifemaker has it’s own take on this. May I tough on some observations from my side.
Grid progression when handsanding. You showed going from 200 to 400 to 600. I add more grids inbetween, yes I have more paper but overall it goes faster. Taking the scratches of a 220 out with a 400 grid just takes much longer than adding say a 320 inbetween
Before going to the buffing wheet I go up to at least 800, also faster.
Degreasing, imo degreasing is one of the most important steps when etching. I do it with hot water and dishwasher soap (the cheapest you can get best with no colorants or perfumes), tensides degrease better than acetone or windex. (Btw cheap acetone you get in the hadwrae stores has impurities like water. After degreasing I never tough the blade with bare hands, I wear gloves.
I get good results right away,
Just my 2 cents.
I appreciate the comment and the insight. Going from 220 to 400 doesn’t really take me too much time. I’m not sure the added expense of another paper would offset the time spent sanding. I’m not against it at all, just not sure if it’s for me.
The dish soap and hot water is great. I do it sometimes. I have different processes for different finishes. When I’m trying to darken a blade, that’s when I spend the most time degreasing, just to have a consistent finish.
🇦🇬
Ham…..on.
Ham….on.
Ham…on.
Ham..on.
Ham.on.
Hamon. Hamon!
Practice makes perfect. Keep up the good work.👍🏾
🙇🏾♂️
Hahahaha. Thanks a bunch.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks 🇦🇬T’was my pleasure. Always edify and encourage. 🙇🏾♂️
I am finally going to give this a try although i went to 800 grit as in my personal opinion 800 brings out a hamon best... although I am using a buffing wheel on my Dremal tool.
Sounds great! Let me know how it goes.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks Fantastically well thankyou again for sharing this.
That’s great to hear! Glad I could help.
Horizontal quenching allows edge 1st then pause to then continue to the spine, it will result far better for Hamons..also a 50/50 mix of Acid / vinegar will save several cycles of etching.. vertical quenching makes it difficult to get good hamons.. the water or even faster salt water quenching is heated like the oil then edge dip 2 sec to then, fully dip to spine 3 to 4 sec then take out completely before it cracks for a 5 to 10 sec out of water to redip completely etc..its art to it for sure..
Thanks for the tips.
I dunk it in ferric between grits and that brings out the hamon pretty well...and lets me get a mirror polish
I’m guessing you didn’t watch the video 😂
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks 😅Sorry, i was doing a running commentary it's a bad habit i have trouble breaking, and i am obsessed with doing Hamon (and wish I could share some pics to prove i am not talking out of my rear). I was just going to edit my comment when you made this. this. I do it between each hand-polishing grit. That way I can also see the scratches with the next grit. i also spend a lot more time hand polishing as i start at a lower grit, go up a lot higher and, start at 180 grit and go to between 600-7000 grit. Once you get to 2500 grit, it does not take that long to get to 7000 maybe an hour more work total. i am going to likely go up to 7000 on the blade i am working on right now as I want to see if I can make the grain structure visible in the steel from polishing as i kinda did with a piece of leftover canister damascus i forged scalp. (i only stock up to 220 grit belts as I don't have the greatest grinder in the world right now it's a single-speed 2x48, and i get impatient, and that causes me to overheat the steel at higher grits.) it also should be said polishing the blade tip to tang is the best way to bring out a hamon as the lines are it's dulled if the polishing scratches go edge to spine...I alternate doing edge to the spine to make sure I get all the scratches out and end with tip to tang...i am obsessed with a perfect mirror hand polish with no buffer to the point of using a magnifier as i polish...because I don't have a buffer, and they scare the (BEEP) out of me....sorry for rambling here...i dont get out much.
Great work. The Main Problem with that ferric etch is that a lot of ashi Details are gettin lost in the process. Lemon and vinegar is pretty Hard to pull of but gets you way more Details. Anyway cool process and thx for sharing ✌️🙌
Thanks for the insight. I know this isn’t the absolute best process, but it pulls out a pretty decent hamon considering the time investment.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks jeah its a great way you Do it and it gives a nice Look 🙌... there are a lot of ways and each way has its own Look. All about the preferences. Greets shirknives
I agree 100%. We've all got our ways of getting stuff done. When I'm training guys at work, I try to show them every way I know how to do a specific task, then tell them to figure out the way that works best for them. Coming from an art background, I hate when people say not to do certain thing, or not to do certain things a certain way. I'm all about creative freedom. If we have an idea, and it doesn't work out, it's lesson learned.
Very helpful, my turn
Great to hear. Let me know how it goes.
Wow! Those look real nice! Your process is simple but effective. I'll be trying it on a bar of W2 I have here. See if I can get similar results.
I do have one question: Did any of your blades of this design ever break during use? Since the hamon appears to reach near the place with the top hole, and that is the narrowest part of the blade, maybe its a focus point for blade stress?
Thank you! It is a pretty simple process. None of the blades have broken. If these were outdoor knives, that took more abuse, I’d’ve drawn back the hardness in those areas. With these being kitchen knives, I have full confidence that these won’t break.
Thanks for the video! What is the quench oil you are using? Parks 50?
You're very welcome! Thank you! Yeah, I'm using Parks 50 for W2.
Hi there, thanx for this very helpful description. How many tempering cycles would you propose?
I’m glad it helps. I usually do two tempering cycles at 2 hours each.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks thank you again for the emidiate answer.
My pleasure 😁
I'm figuring a lot of this out too. W2 behaves a little differently than what I'm used to. What i've really learned... polish level is everything.... even before quench. Once you quench, your hand sanding marks will hamone into fuzz, and you won't even see them until you re-polish past 600 or so, and cannot be fixed. The more polished the billet was before quench, the less hazing. This only happens if you bevel or forge your blade before heat treat. if the blade is thicker than like 1/8th an inch before quench, it will probably grind out later. Similarly while polishing and etching after quench, the higher you take your polish, the less hazing there will be in the hamone. It's brutally obvious in W2 (or maybe i should say brutally honest) compared to other simple steels I've used. W2 is better at showing how ugly your work is so it must be tended to a little more carefully.
That’s some good info. Thanks for sharing.
Polishing, or at least taking the blade to a high grid is something I would recommend for any steel with a low hardenability, steels where you need to use a fast quenching agent. (Brine beeing the fastest, then water, then fast quenching oils) Every course gring mark is a stress riser that can initiate a crack.
I think I'm in the wrong place
.
Thank you so much for sharing this information! I did notice you heat your parks 50. I have never heated parks 50. I do heat my parks AAA. Have you noticed better harmon with heating the Parks 50?
My pleasure! Thank you! I always heat my parks 50, so I can’t say if there’s much of a difference if it’s not heated. All I know is you want the steel to cool as quickly as possible, and I know heater oil will cool steel faster than cold oil. I’m sure you’d still get a good hamon with cold parks 50.
Thank you for your feedback. I definitely subscribed and I look forward to seeing more of you work!
I really appreciate that. I’m always happy to help, so feel free to ask if you have questions. I’ll do my best to help.
Great video! What grade steel wool are you using? Fine (00-0)?
Thank you! I use 0000. Abrasive enough to remove the nasties, but not abrasive enough to scratch up the finish.
Sweet! That’s good to know. I’m trying your method right now. Using the rutland diluted with water, since that turned out so well for you.
That’s awesome. Yeah, it works just fine. 😁
Hey, just found your channel and subscribed. Love the profile on this one. I’m buying the same JenKen you have and just wanted to ask your opinion on it after having it for a while. Also, do you let it cool for tempering with the lid open or closed? I’ve read it can damage the coils if you leave the lid open.
Hey. Thanks a bunch. So, I don’t really use it to temper anymore. I always left the lid open, because even with the lid open it takes about an hour or so to get down to tempering temperature. For that reason, I just temper in my pid controlled toaster oven. I think I’ll be making a dedicated tempering oven soon.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks Thanks for the feedback. I already have a PID toaster oven which works fine. I guess I really just wanted to know if leaving it open would hurt anything. Any regrets not going with a traditional horizontal kiln?
Ahhh. I gotcha. Leaving the lid open hasn’t done anything to my kiln, that I’ve noticed. After using this kiln, I’d never get one where the blade is resting on its spine or side. I did that enough when heat treating in a forge, and hated straightening and re-heating when I picked it up wrong or bumped it on the way out. These kilns are the way to go, in my opinion.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks Hey thanks, I really appreciate it. I’ve been going back and forth on what to get for about 2 years now. The JenKen has always been on the top of my list and I found a really good deal on the fully loaded VAB21. It’s good to get some feedback from someone that has one. Thanks again!
My pleasure. Always happy to help. Truly though, I don’t see any downside to the vertical kiln.
Is it essential to rough grind the blades before applying the clay?
I don’t think it’s essential, but I want the steel to cool as quickly as possible to ensure I get the hamon, so I thin the steel a little before I quench.
@Hathenbrucksteelworks Thank You!!!!!
Anytime! Thank you!!
How wide of stock is that?
These are 3/32” stock.
W1, Spicy White also work. And Hitachi White if you want to pay for it. 😉 Not all W2 is created equal. The batch of round stock that DH III and Jason Knight have is the best for hamon. The square drops from the same source were not as good., Good stell, but they lack that wispy hamon of the round stuff.
Absolutely! Some people have stashes of the good stuff. hahaha. Aldo's W2 is some really great steel.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks Very few people have any of that DH III W2 left, even people who bought a lot. I know Jason has a pile still and I think Karl Andersen still has some. YOU see it show up in odd places, like in an integral ktichen knife fr0mm some girl in Alaska. She might have gotten that from Adam. I still have about 140 pounds of the round bars, mostly the 3/4 and 1 inch and about 75 pounds of the square drops. But I got it in like 2005.
That’s pretty amazing. I think I remember hearing Jason talk about that. I know he’s talked about the Hitachi before.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks The Hitachi that he is talking about is the 1085. Pop's has that. Those are drops from one of the Toyota plants here in the US. IIRC, that is like anti-sway bar steel. It's the right size. Probably has too much manganese for a good hamon. If you want the real knife steel, you have to get it from the UK from Workshop Heaven or Germany from Dictum and pay out the nose plus shipping. You can only get the White an Blue #2. No #1 or Blue Super. One of those guys sells what looks like a Hitachi 1086M round bar which is like lower carbon W2. There is also some super clean carbon steel from Bohler-Uddeholm that we can get over here. Funny because they get it in Japan. Shigefusa knives are supposedly made with Swedish steel, not Japanese.
That’s very interesting. You’re a wealth of knowledge.
Great video, but eliminate this shortcut - instead of more powerful buffer- go with sandpaper grits 100...2500, more side-to-side moves while for-and-backward, and... they will be even greater. Buffer at the very end, after sandpaper 2500, with very fine polishing paste
Thanks for the tips. I may try this one day, but I’m not a fan of highly polished knives. This technique works really well for me. Out of curiosity, why hand sand up to 2500, when you can get a mirror finish from a buffer after 400 grit sandpaper?
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks Going with sandpaper will remove all decarbonized surface, hamon will be more gentle with smooth passage between areas. Japanese masters go with stones up to 10000 grit. And- don't worry, after it will be like a mirror, etch it. But gently, not in ferric chloride. Lemon juice on some rag or piece of paper, and go with it, switching after while to vinnegar. After while- back to 5% lemom juice. It might take a while, but it will be darkened, mirror will wanish, and become smooth like a velvet. It takes time, but it's worth it 👍. Without it- hamon looks like it wasn't achieved by differential quenching, but like etched 😉
Ahhhh. Gotcha. Yeah, I’ve done the vinegar and lemon juice thing before. It might be me, but I don’t see a big enough difference in the final outcome to want to spend an additional 8 hours sanding, etching and polishing. Not that I mind putting in the work for little subtleties, but these knives are a much different price point than something like that.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks 8hours? On my last one I've spent over 40 😉 And yes, then it's price skyrockets at least 10 times 👍
But still- great work you've made 👍
Hahaha. That’s a lot of time. I honestly don’t see a big enough difference to warrant that much extra time. If I was doing something else, like a traditional Japanese knife, I’d consider pulling out all the facets of a hamon. These knives will just get used and a patina will just ruin all that work anyway.
I thought you didn't need to pre heat parks 50
I don’t think you really have to, but if you want to get the most from the steel you’re using, heat the oil to recommended temps.
@@Hathenbrucksteelworks Thx. Ill add that to my process
The Parks 50 datasheet says it works just as well at 50 F as it does at 120 F (10 C vs. 50 C). That isn't true of all oils. If they bubble when you quench the blade, they probably won't cool it quickly enough to properly harden, and pre-heating helps prevent that. But according to Parks, we don't need to do this with Parks 50. I might try it at room temp next time. Use whatever process works for you :)
Great info. Thanks for sharing.